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Is this the end of the tories?
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By *hagTonight OP Man 3 days ago
From the land of haribos. |
There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them  |
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By *otMe66Man 3 days ago
Terra Firma |
The end of this era of conservatives, regroup and learn from mistakes over the next 4 - 5 years.
It might not be enough to get them back in power at the next GE, that is unless like the tories, labour self destruct |
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Tbh, they will get enough MPs to remain just about credible. I also dont think Reform have the depth to keep the momentum up. Farage will get bored once he has to do real work. As such the Tories will reclaim some voters. |
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"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them "
No, they just need to decide what path to follow. Do they want to be a serious political party that is economically right wing but ultimately wants to govern the country properly. Or do they want to move further into division, misinformation, popularist politics. |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 days ago
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The Tories won a big majority in 2019 by offering actual conservative policies.
Admittedly they were then derailed by Covid, but how they responded to Covid ran against their initial instincts but ultimately was a choice they made too. There was no necessity to make it such an all encompassing policy for such an extended period of time to the detriment of everything else.
Other than that they have done very little and mostly have run the country like Liberal Democrats. That may be because a vast chunk of their MP’s are Liberals.
In the process they have totally lost the conservative flank of their party to either Reform or to not voting.
There will be a rump of the Party which will argue that Labour got a big victory so the only way to victory will be to be Labour-lite. They’ve tried that before and it doesn’t work, there simply aren’t enough left wing voters prepared to vote Tory.
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"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them "
I can see the potential for a split in the party, the ERG types finally becoming too right wing for the traditional one nation Tories. I don’t think the split will happen but it’s a real possibility depending on who wins the leadership. |
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I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life. |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life."
Well put you down as a ‘don’t know’ then. |
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"The Tories won a big majority in 2019 by offering actual conservative policies.
Admittedly they were then derailed by Covid, but how they responded to Covid ran against their initial instincts but ultimately was a choice they made too. There was no necessity to make it such an all encompassing policy for such an extended period of time to the detriment of everything else.
Other than that they have done very little and mostly have run the country like Liberal Democrats. That may be because a vast chunk of their MP’s are Liberals.
In the process they have totally lost the conservative flank of their party to either Reform or to not voting.
There will be a rump of the Party which will argue that Labour got a big victory so the only way to victory will be to be Labour-lite. They’ve tried that before and it doesn’t work, there simply aren’t enough left wing voters prepared to vote Tory.
"
cynically they won because a) Brexit and b) wasn't Corbyn.
The only other policies I can think od were the number of hospitals they were going to build (no idea if this is conservative or not) but that policy was shakey once you started looking at it.
But this does bring me to how important it is to vote note just for polices, but also believability of polices, and trust in those promising them.
Otherwise you are getting in the van with the free sweet sign. |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life."
Did you copy and paste this from an article in 97?
The same was said then.. |
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Because we have FPTP system, the main political parties inherently become big tent parties with multiple ideologies. This leads to ideological conflicts. The Tories had a conflict between their social views and economy views, mainly on immigration. So they have to stay out of government for awhile and come back with a clear idea of what their principles are. |
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By *irldnCouple 3 days ago
Brighton |
"Because we have FPTP system, the main political parties inherently become big tent parties with multiple ideologies. This leads to ideological conflicts. The Tories had a conflict between their social views and economy views, mainly on immigration. So they have to stay out of government for awhile and come back with a clear idea of what their principles are."
Big tent parties or coalitions by another name thus undermining the argument for FPTP and actually supporting the argument for PR. At least the horse trading will be more public rather than shady back room deals. |
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By *irldnCouple 3 days ago
Brighton |
The Conservatives are a spent force who have consumed themselves and self destructed on the alter of Brexit and being pulled to the right by the ERG. They need to reinvent themselves and get back to their roots of being a centre right party with broad appeal to the aspirational. Most Brits are small C conservative so a real Tory party true to its roots has broader appeal. Just get rid of the nutjobs and reclaim the centre ground (genuinely). |
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"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them "
I think it depends on how few seats they retain. IMO less than 100 and they will be out of power for ten years,and choose two or three unappealing right wing nutters as leaders before identifying someone who has some sort of appeal to younger voters.
Perhaps they would be electable in five years if they purged their party of the ERG types.
I also wonder whether the Daily Mail and Telegraph have any viable future? Murdoch knows you need to be seen backing winners. Carping from the side lines won't sell newspapers. |
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The Tories are finding out that the UK is a fairly centrist country, probably slightly right of centre all things being equal but centrist all the same.
Their lurch to the right has cost them millions of votes, in an attempt to pander to the more extreme anti-immigrant, anti-welfare vote they have left the rump of their voters behind.
If they are not to spend more than a decade in the wilderness they will need to return to their traditional centre right policies and rid themselves of the ERG extremists and those under the spell of Tufton Street. |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life.
Did you copy and paste this from an article in 97?
The same was said then.."
No Not at All |
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"The Tories are finding out that the UK is a fairly centrist country, probably slightly right of centre all things being equal but centrist all the same.
Their lurch to the right has cost them millions of votes, in an attempt to pander to the more extreme anti-immigrant, anti-welfare vote they have left the rump of their voters behind.
If they are not to spend more than a decade in the wilderness they will need to return to their traditional centre right policies and rid themselves of the ERG extremists and those under the spell of Tufton Street."
the Tories have always done well because there is no other right party. They just need to be just left of lib Dems to sweep up all the votes.
Now they have to fight on both the left and right fronts.
Cameron saw this coming which is why he tried to put the UKIP issue to bed (and tbf he largely succeeded).
Boris largely kept Farage happy by being in the same Brexit bed.
However Boris didn't realise this was the deal being made and believe the 80 majority hype. The ERG didn't see that votes were being leant out of principle of getting the ref result done. And so started to believe swathes of Brexit voters were more right than they actually are.
Hence NF coming back. He's sweeping up the votes leant to Boris by having some lefty policies. Plus the more right votes from having righty policies.
(He also knows people tend to vote for issues they care about even if other issues go against their philosophy).
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We will not know anything until Friday evening (if it’s all counted by then). I have been watching things in social media, and a lot of Tories who voted leave will vote Reform. So there could be one or two surprises. I know there is a lot of wishful thinking by those who are against them. But we will see… |
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By *irldnCouple 3 days ago
Brighton |
"We will not know anything until Friday evening (if it’s all counted by then). I have been watching things in social media, and a lot of Tories who voted leave will vote Reform. So there could be one or two surprises. I know there is a lot of wishful thinking by those who are against them. But we will see…"
I am confident if we had PR then Reform would get a fair few MPs but with FPTP I think one MP would be their best outcome. |
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"We will not know anything until Friday evening (if it’s all counted by then). I have been watching things in social media, and a lot of Tories who voted leave will vote Reform. So there could be one or two surprises. I know there is a lot of wishful thinking by those who are against them. But we will see…
I am confident if we had PR then Reform would get a fair few MPs but with FPTP I think one MP would be their best outcome."
Which of those two scenarios would be best for the nation?  |
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By *irldnCouple 3 days ago
Brighton |
"17.4 million people voted leave in that referendum, and if even half of us voted Reform tomorrow, then there could be a good few seats."
I think someone said this either in this thread or another…I think a lot of those votes were lent and it was a single topic issue. |
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By *irldnCouple 3 days ago
Brighton |
"We will not know anything until Friday evening (if it’s all counted by then). I have been watching things in social media, and a lot of Tories who voted leave will vote Reform. So there could be one or two surprises. I know there is a lot of wishful thinking by those who are against them. But we will see…
I am confident if we had PR then Reform would get a fair few MPs but with FPTP I think one MP would be their best outcome.
Which of those two scenarios would be best for the nation? "
I have been vocal in my support for PR so I think if millions of people vote Reform then they should get representation regardless of whether I agree with their policies or not. |
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"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them
I think it depends on how few seats they retain. IMO less than 100 and they will be out of power for ten years,and choose two or three unappealing right wing nutters as leaders before identifying someone who has some sort of appeal to younger voters.
Perhaps they would be electable in five years if they purged their party of the ERG types.
I also wonder whether the Daily Mail and Telegraph have any viable future? Murdoch knows you need to be seen backing winners. Carping from the side lines won't sell newspapers."
Is this the same Murdoch that owns The Sun and is backing Labour?? |
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"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them "
Rumours? Where have you been hiding? Even the Tories are expecting to lose. |
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"The Tories won a big majority in 2019 by offering actual conservative policies.
Admittedly they were then derailed by Covid, but how they responded to Covid ran against their initial instincts but ultimately was a choice they made too. There was no necessity to make it such an all encompassing policy for such an extended period of time to the detriment of everything else.
Other than that they have done very little and mostly have run the country like Liberal Democrats. That may be because a vast chunk of their MP’s are Liberals.
In the process they have totally lost the conservative flank of their party to either Reform or to not voting.
There will be a rump of the Party which will argue that Labour got a big victory so the only way to victory will be to be Labour-lite. They’ve tried that before and it doesn’t work, there simply aren’t enough left wing voters prepared to vote Tory.
"
It does make me laugh when people say the tories won on merit. It was a one issue election - Brexit. |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life."
Yes you have - every time a tory MP opens their mouth.
Woohoo tories out!! |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life.
Well put you down as a ‘don’t know’ then."
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"17.4 million people voted leave in that referendum, and if even half of us voted Reform tomorrow, then there could be a good few seats."
You have to be kidding. None of those people i know who voted for Brexit would turn to Reform. |
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"17.4 million people voted leave in that referendum, and if even half of us voted Reform tomorrow, then there could be a good few seats.
You have to be kidding. None of those people i know who voted for Brexit would turn to Reform."
I dunno, I would suspect nearly all Reform voters, were also Brexit voters. And presumably, people who thought Brexit was a good idea, would also think the rhubarb in the Reform manifesto is also appealing. |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 3 days ago
From the land of haribos. |
"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them
Rumours? Where have you been hiding? Even the Tories are expecting to lose."
Yes. I have also heard that too. |
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"There are a lot of rumours going around that there is a big possibility that this election could be the end of the tories.
What is your view about it and prediction? I think that it is the end for them "
Hopefully you are right. |
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End of the Torys? No. They are too well established. They may spend a term or two in opposition cycling through a couple of leaders but until they move back to the centre ground and stop banging on about immigration they are doomed to the edges of politics. |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life.
"
I'm musing over what an exciting course your life must have taken. |
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They need a bloody nose that enforces a complete reset and a change of personnel. Realise what conservatism actually is and get back to basics...very similar to that which the Labour party has had to do |
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It's most unlikely that it will be. If there's money to be gained, they'll be around and morph to something that can strip the carcass of anything still left after their 14 years of gorging on our public assets. Greed is good  |
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"It is predicted that labour is on course for the biggest majority of any party since 1832. I also reckon that labour will win it "
Then watch the bad losers of the business and finance communities use their power and leverage to wreck the economy in order to blame Labour.
Labour can never win when the owners of wealth are ultimately in control. |
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"It is predicted that labour is on course for the biggest majority of any party since 1832. I also reckon that labour will win it
Then watch the bad losers of the business and finance communities use their power and leverage to wreck the economy in order to blame Labour.
Labour can never win when the owners of wealth are ultimately in control."
Unless they believe Labour can serve their interests better than Tories can. Guessing by the shift in funding (in the run up to this election) from the Conservatives to Labour, some corporations definitely think so. |
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"It is predicted that labour is on course for the biggest majority of any party since 1832. I also reckon that labour will win it
Then watch the bad losers of the business and finance communities use their power and leverage to wreck the economy in order to blame Labour.
Labour can never win when the owners of wealth are ultimately in control.
Unless they believe Labour can serve their interests better than Tories can. Guessing by the shift in funding (in the run up to this election) from the Conservatives to Labour, some corporations definitely think so. "
Or they have seen the inevitable and want to curry favour with the next government. |
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"It is predicted that labour is on course for the biggest majority of any party since 1832. I also reckon that labour will win it
Then watch the bad losers of the business and finance communities use their power and leverage to wreck the economy in order to blame Labour.
Labour can never win when the owners of wealth are ultimately in control.
Unless they believe Labour can serve their interests better than Tories can. Guessing by the shift in funding (in the run up to this election) from the Conservatives to Labour, some corporations definitely think so.
Or they have seen the inevitable and want to curry favour with the next government."
Bit of both maybe. |
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"It is predicted that labour is on course for the biggest majority of any party since 1832. I also reckon that labour will win it
Then watch the bad losers of the business and finance communities use their power and leverage to wreck the economy in order to blame Labour.
Labour can never win when the owners of wealth are ultimately in control."
Hopefully some of Labour’s soundbites have at least led to corporation curiosity. Labour wants to grow the economy and wants businesses to invest. He isn't anti business. Fingers crossed his vision comes to light. |
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Hubby was a former supporter, until the billions wasted, and the scandals of a lot of them. Not forgetting deliberately increasing legal immigration to the highest it's ever been, by a huge margin. Yeah, the Conservatives as a party can die now. |
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"I've lost all interest in this election. I do believe, sadly, that there will be a new Government but the problem is Who is going to be the new?
None of the others will do anything better under the circumstances and if that Starmer idiot gets in with labor, the country is doomed to Economic melt down. I've never heard so much Tripe come from one party in all my life."
I am not a Tory or Labour fan or voter , but I really don't think you can say Starmer is an idiot, he would have most tory ministers on toast. |
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