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The reform manifesto thread
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
As Farage will soon be here demanding it as the unofficial opposition
It seems largely in line with their previous contract with the people.
My first glance is it misses out on the "hows". Eg how will it save £5 in every 100 to save
£50bn (as my maths makes that 5pc of the entire government spend! Someone please check)
I think it also double counts the immigration savings as most is paid from foreign aid.
Net zero savings need backing. As my research here is those who use these numbers only quote the costs, not the savings, that have been used in select committee etc.
That said, tax in using foreign workers, possibly a good idea if workable.
Increasing Personal Allowance, yes if affordable (at least reverae the fiscal drift)
No PA for NHS. Interesting. Can see that difficult to being implemented... How does that work of I'm largely private?
20pc tax relief on medical insurance. Anyone following the public fees discussion would know I'm not in favour ... However it's consistent ish with schools so in that sense a sensible policy for their politics.
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"As Farage will soon be here demanding it as the unofficial opposition
It seems largely in line with their previous contract with the people.
My first glance is it misses out on the "hows". Eg how will it save £5 in every 100 to save
£50bn (as my maths makes that 5pc of the entire government spend! Someone please check)
I think it also double counts the immigration savings as most is paid from foreign aid.
Net zero savings need backing. As my research here is those who use these numbers only quote the costs, not the savings, that have been used in select committee etc.
That said, tax in using foreign workers, possibly a good idea if workable.
Increasing Personal Allowance, yes if affordable (at least reverae the fiscal drift)
No PA for NHS. Interesting. Can see that difficult to being implemented... How does that work of I'm largely private?
20pc tax relief on medical insurance. Anyone following the public fees discussion would know I'm not in favour ... However it's consistent ish with schools so in that sense a sensible policy for their politics.
"
The how is going to be interesting…. Because they have said they not cutting state pensions… or welfare spending.. or defence spending (in fact they have said they would give the foreign aid budget to defence)
We know they are climate science deniers and they would get rid of the entire net zero spending… but that doesn’t get anywhere near 5 pounds in every 100..
So… NHS? Education? |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Regarding them and net zero I’ve always wanted to ask why they are prepared to give tax breaks and subsidies for oil and gas, but not for green energy like wind and solar….. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple 2 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
'Our contract with you': Farage launches Reform manifesto
Reform UK leader Nigel Farage is on his feet in south Wales, where he is launching his party's "contract to the British people" - in essence, their manifesto.
The document runs to 25 pages - compared to 133 published by Labour.
Mr Farage begins by saying simply: "Guess who's back - back again!"
He says he didn't for "one moment" think he would be back running a party - but decided to do so because "Britain is broken".
"There is a lack of leadership", the Reform UK leader says.
We'll update this post with the key election pledges made by Mr Farage...
Pic: Sky News
Pic: Sky News
The document contains five core pledges - and the first two focus heavily on immigration. Reform UK pledges to freeze "all non-essential immigration" which it claims will "boost wages, protect public services, end the housing crisis and cut crime";
Reform claims it would "stop the boats" in its first 100 days with a four-point plan that would involve leaving the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), with zero illegal immigrants being resettled in the UK, a new government department for immigration, and migrants crossing the channel in small boats being returned to France;
The remaining three core pledges ask voters to "imagine no NHS waiting lists"; "imagine good wages for a hard day's work" and "imagine affordable, stable energy bills";
A raft of tax cuts are also promised, including raising the minimum threshold of income tax to £20,000 a year, abolishing stamp duty, and abolishing inheritance tax for all estates under £2m;
Reform plans to fund these tax cuts by raising £40bn from reducing the interest paid on Bank of England reserves, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said such a measure is "unlikely to raise even half" of that sum;
On health, Reform wants to create an "NHS voucher scheme" for private treatment if people can not get seen by a GP within three days and to hold a public inquiry into excess deaths and "vaccine harms" from the COVID vaccine;
Reform UK also vows to increase defence spending to 3% within six years and introduce a new dedicated department for veterans - before recruiting 30,000 people to the British Army;
The party also hopes to recruit 40,000 new police officers - and reduce main corporation tax to 20%;
Reform also outlines plans to abandon the Windsor Framework, and prepare for re-negotiations on the EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement;
The party pledges to support marriage through the tax system, planning to introduce a 25% tax allowance "as soon as finances allow";
There is also a plan to scrap HS2 in full - which Reform UK says will save £25bn, describing the high speed rail line as a "bloated vanity project";
Mr Farage's party also plans to undertake a reform of the House of Lords - which it would replace with a "smaller, more democratic second chamber";
Reform UK also aims to reject the "influence" of the World Health Organisation, and wave goodbye to "cancel culture" with a comprehensive Free Speech Bill;
Reform would also overhaul the BBC, and make St George's Day and St David's Day public holidays |
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He said at the press conference that these are things they are going to campaign for because they aren’t going to be in government.
So basically just a load of empty promises in the hope of grabbing votes. |
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"Regarding them and net zero I’ve always wanted to ask why they are prepared to give tax breaks and subsidies for oil and gas, but not for green energy like wind and solar….. "
Because they represent the interests of the fossil fuels industry, regardless of the impact it has on the planet. |
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"Tax reform suggests a gap of 38bn
IFS also suggest they don't add up.
We are talking many many times higher than the labour 2k.
Not that I suspect this matters. "
I don’t think people really support Reform for their economics and policies on the NHS. |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Raise tax allowance and lower universal credit bill ... welfare will be reformed again, hopefully encourage work etc"
Are you trying to force people into work.. I.e make people go through all the examinations they use to do for PIP? Or you trying to stop people retiring early like doctors.. but you are incentivising people who could retire by taxing them less.. so aren’t wouldn’t the wealthy be more wealthy?
Also… net zero immigration doesn’t actually mean net zero… because they are exempting health and social care, which is where most come in at the moment
Also… the immigration figures already have a built in quirk in that it includes foreign students at university when they come in, but not when they graduate |
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"As Farage will soon be here demanding it as the unofficial opposition
It seems largely in line with their previous contract with the people.
My first glance is it misses out on the "hows". Eg how will it save £5 in every 100 to save
£50bn (as my maths makes that 5pc of the entire government spend! Someone please check)
I think it also double counts the immigration savings as most is paid from foreign aid.
Net zero savings need backing. As my research here is those who use these numbers only quote the costs, not the savings, that have been used in select committee etc.
That said, tax in using foreign workers, possibly a good idea if workable.
Increasing Personal Allowance, yes if affordable (at least reverae the fiscal drift)
No PA for NHS. Interesting. Can see that difficult to being implemented... How does that work of I'm largely private?
20pc tax relief on medical insurance. Anyone following the public fees discussion would know I'm not in favour ... However it's consistent ish with schools so in that sense a sensible policy for their politics.
"
The BBC had a run down of changes they would make etc. If they do add up it will be a first  . I get the idea of trying to portray reform as the main opposition but with our voting system he knows that is highly unlikely. Is it fair to hold Wales up as an example of what Labour will bring to the rest of the UK? |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Reform plans to fund these tax cuts by raising £40bn from reducing the interest paid on Bank of England reserves, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said such a measure is "unlikely to raise even half" of that sum;"
That is in theory doable…. But dangerous for all sorts of reasons
They will say that the ECB does this, but not in this way…. The ECB have a zero interest amount up to a certain figure and then charge, reforms plan is to not pay any interest!
Also if there is zero interest, there is no incentive for other banks to save any money in the Bank of England and hold it there for safety! So if there was ever another bank run it would cost much more in regards to public liquidity…. |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"
Reform plans to fund these tax cuts by raising £40bn from reducing the interest paid on Bank of England reserves, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said such a measure is "unlikely to raise even half" of that sum;
That is in theory doable…. But dangerous for all sorts of reasons
They will say that the ECB does this, but not in this way…. The ECB have a zero interest amount up to a certain figure and then charge, reforms plan is to not pay any interest!
Also if there is zero interest, there is no incentive for other banks to save any money in the Bank of England and hold it there for safety! So if there was ever another bank run it would cost much more in regards to public liquidity…. "
I won't pretend I understand the details. But I've seen two places say their number is over stated even before you start to factor in other impacts.
I've also seen suggestion this will just be passed onto customers. Could be the end of free banking... |
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"Raise tax allowance and lower universal credit bill ... welfare will be reformed again, hopefully encourage work etc
Are you trying to force people into work.. I.e make people go through all the examinations they use to do for PIP? Or you trying to stop people retiring early like doctors.. but you are incentivising people who could retire by taxing them less.. so aren’t wouldn’t the wealthy be more wealthy?
Also… net zero immigration doesn’t actually mean net zero… because they are exempting health and social care, which is where most come in at the moment
Also… the immigration figures already have a built in quirk in that it includes foreign students at university when they come in, but not when they graduate "
If you live on an council estate you know x amount of families who haven't worked in their lives, but well capable... big clue when you can walk/drive to the supermarket and carry a crate of cans around.
Will it solve it? Maybe who knows as Tories and labour have promised to crack down and done ... fuck all.
Bit like immigration, both labour and Tories having a big crackdown, guess what both done fuck all
Bit of a pattern going on here ?? |
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"Raise tax allowance and lower universal credit bill ... welfare will be reformed again, hopefully encourage work etc
Are you trying to force people into work.. I.e make people go through all the examinations they use to do for PIP? Or you trying to stop people retiring early like doctors.. but you are incentivising people who could retire by taxing them less.. so aren’t wouldn’t the wealthy be more wealthy?
Also… net zero immigration doesn’t actually mean net zero… because they are exempting health and social care, which is where most come in at the moment
Also… the immigration figures already have a built in quirk in that it includes foreign students at university when they come in, but not when they graduate
If you live on an council estate you know x amount of families who haven't worked in their lives, but well capable... big clue when you can walk/drive to the supermarket and carry a crate of cans around.
Will it solve it? Maybe who knows as Tories and labour have promised to crack down and done ... fuck all.
Bit like immigration, both labour and Tories having a big crackdown, guess what both done fuck all
Bit of a pattern going on here ?? "
Of course. They have absolutely zero motivation to do anything that would reduce the number of immigrants arriving via non-legal routes. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense."
I believe it's more deliberate and strategic than that.
It's the equivalent of Russia saying to Kyiv, "We're going to drop a nuke on you tomorrow. Not today. Tomorrow. Any that want out, best make it quick. And we have cookies and a few spots left open".
.
That's how I perceive this. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense."
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto."
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage."
No is the short answer, but if you had PR it might stand a better chance of delivering that outcome.
What did you think to the NHS proposals, I think the next government should seriously consider implementing some of the ideas.
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
No is the short answer, but if you had PR it might stand a better chance of delivering that outcome.
What did you think to the NHS proposals, I think the next government should seriously consider implementing some of the ideas.
"
I haven't read that part yet. I'll have a go later. Their manifesto is really hard going. Some of it feels like it was copied and pasted from angry rants on Lee Anderson's twitter page. |
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Forage is a dangerous man who plays along with his "man of the people" personality
He is looking across the water and seeing the Moron in chief promising allsorts while having no intention of ever delivering on any promise or contract. He is doing the same from the same playback, He is going to get votes from the same people kind of people who back Trump. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
No is the short answer, but if you had PR it might stand a better chance of delivering that outcome.
What did you think to the NHS proposals, I think the next government should seriously consider implementing some of the ideas.
I haven't read that part yet. I'll have a go later. Their manifesto is really hard going. Some of it feels like it was copied and pasted from angry rants on Lee Anderson's twitter page. "
It is a Jekyll and Hide manifesto, some of it is well balanced, but then sprayed with something random.
They’re trying to reach as many people as possible |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
NI. Nice idea but hut feel is it will be difficult to implement. I doubt NHS has a single payroll.
Write off debts. Yes, agreed.
Use overseas healthcare. That needs exposing to me.
Tax relief on insurance. Not for me. Only makes a difference to a handldul of people. I could get there if private did more tomfund training etc rather than just take the cream.
Vouchers: assumes private has a load of spare capacity. Not convinced this helps.
Save A&E. Not sure how much the current situation is due to lack pharmacies etc, or if it's more behavioural. Detail needed.
Excess deaths. If this was truly independent then I'm indifferent. Need proper statisticians involved as YouTube analysis has always been flawed.
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
No is the short answer, but if you had PR it might stand a better chance of delivering that outcome.
What did you think to the NHS proposals, I think the next government should seriously consider implementing some of the ideas.
I haven't read that part yet. I'll have a go later. Their manifesto is really hard going. Some of it feels like it was copied and pasted from angry rants on Lee Anderson's twitter page.
It is a Jekyll and Hide manifesto, some of it is well balanced, but then sprayed with something random.
They’re trying to reach as many people as possible "
Are they? It seems like they're targeting a very specific demographic.
They don't seem to have much for anyone who like a scientific view of things. Anyone that isn't obsessed with immigration, anyone that wants a a government that's less combative towards the electorate.
I haven't read it all yet. But there's nothing so far that I can see appealing to anyone in the centre. |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Reform plans to fund these tax cuts by raising £40bn from reducing the interest paid on Bank of England reserves, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said such a measure is "unlikely to raise even half" of that sum;
That is in theory doable…. But dangerous for all sorts of reasons
They will say that the ECB does this, but not in this way…. The ECB have a zero interest amount up to a certain figure and then charge, reforms plan is to not pay any interest!
Also if there is zero interest, there is no incentive for other banks to save any money in the Bank of England and hold it there for safety! So if there was ever another bank run it would cost much more in regards to public liquidity….
I won't pretend I understand the details. But I've seen two places say their number is over stated even before you start to factor in other impacts.
I've also seen suggestion this will just be passed onto customers. Could be the end of free banking... "
Yes… and yes…
Best way to look at it is 2 different interest rates… 1 is the one we get… bank to customers
The other is the intra-bank interest rate…. Basically the bank gets a certain amount of interest for leaving it with the Bank of England, so in effect your bank is the customer and the BOE acts as the bank
What the ECB rules say is that a bank has to deposit a certain amount with the ECB (to cover bank bankruptcies ect) .. that they get 0% on… if a bank wants to deposit more than the minimum, then that is where that amount earns interest from the ECB
What happens in the UK is that again banks have to leave a minimum (for stress test) and they can leave more if they can.. in the case of the Bank of England they give interest on everything left with them! What reform want to do is change that to 0% on everything!
What that does is give banks no incentive to put in anything above the stress test minimum as they would not be making any money of leaving money there… also because they are not making a profit there there is nothing to stop them profiting elsewhere.. free banking for example!
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage."
Personally I can't see Reform translating the polling into many seats at all, not with our system. The greens have had the same problem in the past when both they and UKIP / brexit party got several million votes but hardly any seats to show for it. Even if Reform do win a seat or two, combined with the conservatives, it will not be able to stop Labour's victory. |
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"Excellent manifesto.
I wasn’t going to vote but having seen this, they are definitely getting my vote."
Not me. This is what I'm talking about. The manifesto is not aimed at a broad range of people, in my opinion. It's specifically targeted. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
Personally I can't see Reform translating the polling into many seats at all, not with our system. The greens have had the same problem in the past when both they and UKIP / brexit party got several million votes but hardly any seats to show for it. Even if Reform do win a seat or two, combined with the conservatives, it will not be able to stop Labour's victory."
Maybe. Let's see.
I did not forsee that Reform would be taking so many votes from the Tories at all. I was sure we'd get five more years. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
Anyone reading my posts on Labour’s VAT on private school fees will no doubt expect me to quote like this Reform proposal…
“To ease the pressures in schools, Reform UK is encouraging parents to send their children to independent schools with the promise of a 20% tax relief on fees.”
Ie. The virtual opposite of Labour
Similar tax incentives for private health insurance.
Also no stamp duty below £750k or IHT below £2m.
Not sure I can accept retreating from NetZero or ECHR though! |
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Fantasy Island.
They're a small party, given excessive coverage, as demanded by another of the narcissistic men who feed off attention. Plans that are meaningless, when the party isn't going to be in power. Back of a fag packet scribblings that are more demented than Truss's.
Tragic that some people who are pandered to by by his rhetoric want to vote for him and his ilk, when his swivel eyed BS is just infested claptrap. |
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This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow …… |
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"
Reform plans to fund these tax cuts by raising £40bn from reducing the interest paid on Bank of England reserves, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said such a measure is "unlikely to raise even half" of that sum;
That is in theory doable…. But dangerous for all sorts of reasons
They will say that the ECB does this, but not in this way…. The ECB have a zero interest amount up to a certain figure and then charge, reforms plan is to not pay any interest!
Also if there is zero interest, there is no incentive for other banks to save any money in the Bank of England and hold it there for safety! So if there was ever another bank run it would cost much more in regards to public liquidity…. "
Banks don't save money at the bank of England. The financial system is built on "fractional banking" so basically banks are able to lend out more money than they hold.
That's why if there is ever a run in the banks there is not enough money to pay everyone.
It's like 10 people playing musical chairs and there is only 1 chair when the music stops. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage."
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years. |
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"Anyone reading my posts on Labour’s VAT on private school fees will no doubt expect me to quote like this Reform proposal…
“To ease the pressures in schools, Reform UK is encouraging parents to send their children to independent schools with the promise of a 20% tax relief on fees.”
Ie. The virtual opposite of Labour
Similar tax incentives for private health insurance.
Also no stamp duty below £750k or IHT below £2m.
Not sure I can accept retreating from NetZero or ECHR though!"
We will be retreating from Net Zero no matter who you vote for.
The only decision to make is whether we waste hundreds of billions of borrowed/taxed money, and suffer a stagnant or shrinking economy for a decade or more on it first before we accept the inevitable.
There is no such thing as “Green Prosperity”. You can choose Net Zero, or economic growth. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……"
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's an also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye."
Voting in short term chaos and extremism is not a solution anyone should be considering …… if protest is all that’s left then the best protest is not to vote at all. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye."
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye? |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years."
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's an also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Voting in short term chaos and extremism is not a solution anyone should be considering …… if protest is all that’s left then the best protest is not to vote at all."
Not really. A 'no-vote' infers voter apathy, and politicians would be happy with that. But a potential new kid on the block? That will worry them, and rightly so. The best thing Farage might yet achieve is a clearout and reform of the Tory party. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye?"
Quite the opposite. Reform are challenging the establishment and they're running scared. Voters are sensing the panic and warming to it. Who can blame them? |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye?
Quite the opposite. Reform are challenging the establishment and they're running scared. Voters are sensing the panic and warming to it. Who can blame them?"
Reform are representing the interests of the arms industry, of the fossil fuels industry etc. They're doing the exact same as the Tories just with more extreme rhetoric. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win."
I was looking at analysis that said they could get six sitting MPs. As horrific as that would be, hopefully they will sit at the back next to the DUP in a permanent state of outrage about anyone not a straight white male. |
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There's an also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Voting in short term chaos and extremism is not a solution anyone should be considering …… if protest is all that’s left then the best protest is not to vote at all.
Not really. A 'no-vote' infers voter apathy, and politicians would be happy with that. But a potential new kid on the block? That will worry them, and rightly so. The best thing Farage might yet achieve is a clearout and reform of the Tory party.
Which politicians would be happy with abstentions?… that’s a paradox if ever there was. Further, the so called new kid is not a stable, balanced or competent kid for government. The kid is just that…. a kid, any an extremely spoilt one at that. Farage is not politically savvy to clear out anyone, all he is (as with trump in the us) is a short-term populist seen by some as a rallying cause, when in reality he offers nothing beneficial to rally around. |
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It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties) |
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Reform are dominating media attention and tens thousands of comments in the media forums
17% now likely to vote for them, 12% only a few weeks ago
Some realisation coming in a fortnight for the mainstream parties. |
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"There's an also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Voting in short term chaos and extremism is not a solution anyone should be considering …… if protest is all that’s left then the best protest is not to vote at all.
Not really. A 'no-vote' infers voter apathy, and politicians would be happy with that. But a potential new kid on the block? That will worry them, and rightly so. The best thing Farage might yet achieve is a clearout and reform of the Tory party.
Which politicians would be happy with abstentions?… that’s a paradox if ever there was. Further, the so called new kid is not a stable, balanced or competent kid for government. The kid is just that…. a kid, any an extremely spoilt one at that. Farage is not politically savvy to clear out anyone, all he is (as with trump in the us) is a short-term populist seen by some as a rallying cause, when in reality he offers nothing beneficial to rally around."
Yes, I pretty much agree with your last para. But why then are voters turning to them in droves? THAT'S the question right? |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye?
Quite the opposite. Reform are challenging the establishment and they're running scared. Voters are sensing the panic and warming to it. Who can blame them?
Reform are representing the interests of the arms industry, of the fossil fuels industry etc. They're doing the exact same as the Tories just with more extreme rhetoric. "
Nah, they're a single-issue party. Farage has said as much - their other policies are just window dressing. The problem is that the 'establishment' have failed to address that single issue. Now we see the consequences. |
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"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)"
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye?
Quite the opposite. Reform are challenging the establishment and they're running scared. Voters are sensing the panic and warming to it. Who can blame them?
Reform are representing the interests of the arms industry, of the fossil fuels industry etc. They're doing the exact same as the Tories just with more extreme rhetoric.
Nah, they're a single-issue party. Farage has said as much - their other policies are just window dressing. The problem is that the 'establishment' have failed to address that single issue. Now we see the consequences."
The other policies must be there for a reason though.
You think the Tories over used the 'blame everything on immigrants ' tactic?
I guess it's a fine balance to keep especially if you're not intending to do anything.
I live in a multicultural part of the country, and we don't have a reform candidate standing here. So these forums are the only places I come across these people who are obsessed with immigration and immigrants. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye."
Sounds like Brexit all over again. Pointing a loaded gun at your foot and pulling the trigger to stick it to the establishment…oh! |
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"There's an also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Voting in short term chaos and extremism is not a solution anyone should be considering …… if protest is all that’s left then the best protest is not to vote at all.
Not really. A 'no-vote' infers voter apathy, and politicians would be happy with that. But a potential new kid on the block? That will worry them, and rightly so. The best thing Farage might yet achieve is a clearout and reform of the Tory party.
Which politicians would be happy with abstentions?… that’s a paradox if ever there was. Further, the so called new kid is not a stable, balanced or competent kid for government. The kid is just that…. a kid, any an extremely spoilt one at that. Farage is not politically savvy to clear out anyone, all he is (as with trump in the us) is a short-term populist seen by some as a rallying cause, when in reality he offers nothing beneficial to rally around.
Yes, I pretty much agree with your last para. But why then are voters turning to them in droves? THAT'S the question right?"
Decades of anti immigrant rhetoric from the media and government.
A culture of believing we have simple solutions to complex problems
A culture of not being willing to learn enough about a subject, we saw this during Brexit where people were encouraged to ignore experts and believe snake oil salesmen. |
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"There's an also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Voting in short term chaos and extremism is not a solution anyone should be considering …… if protest is all that’s left then the best protest is not to vote at all.
Not really. A 'no-vote' infers voter apathy, and politicians would be happy with that. But a potential new kid on the block? That will worry them, and rightly so. The best thing Farage might yet achieve is a clearout and reform of the Tory party.
Which politicians would be happy with abstentions?… that’s a paradox if ever there was. Further, the so called new kid is not a stable, balanced or competent kid for government. The kid is just that…. a kid, any an extremely spoilt one at that. Farage is not politically savvy to clear out anyone, all he is (as with trump in the us) is a short-term populist seen by some as a rallying cause, when in reality he offers nothing beneficial to rally around.
Yes, I pretty much agree with your last para. But why then are voters turning to them in droves? THAT'S the question right?"
In basic terms it’s playground behaviour (following the mouthpiece) being played out nationwide. The challenge for the voter is to ask am I going to vote emotionally and think “great I told the rest what I think” or objectively and take reasoned steps to vote for party X or to abstain. |
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"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch. "
No bonus points for you.
Have you done the sums in the Reform manifesto pledges though? |
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Reform say they will cancel Student debt
Cancel section24 and renters reform which has led to 830,00 private rented tenants evicted in last 13 months (shelter 3.6.24)
Have not read it all but neither have most as immigration is the key message. |
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"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
No bonus points for you.
Have you done the sums in the Reform manifesto pledges though?"
The sums are meaningless of all parties
For the last 27 years, £10bn has been added to the national debt every month
National debt interest is now equivalent to 2/3 the nhs budget.
There is no accountability for financial mismanagement when you dump failure on the national debt credit card for taxpayers.
|
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"
Decades of anti immigrant rhetoric from the media and government.
A culture of believing we have simple solutions to complex problems
A culture of not being willing to learn enough about a subject, we saw this during Brexit where people were encouraged to ignore experts and believe snake oil salesmen. "
Absolutely. And half the nation and Westminster still in denial over their ineptitude and failure on your last point. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch. "
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye?
Quite the opposite. Reform are challenging the establishment and they're running scared. Voters are sensing the panic and warming to it. Who can blame them?"
I do t really see this challenging the establishment. The establishment has promised low immigration before (I nite reform don't quantify how much migration we will have); the establishment likes to spend on the NHS, police and defence; labour would love to increase personal allowances.
There's a few new ideas but this is just another standard manifesto, albeit one not constrained by making any effort to balance the books.
Which of course makes it more attractive to everyone. |
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"This thread announces reforms manifesto when in fact farage openly disagrees with the principles of a manifesto. Therefore the so called ‘contract with the people’ (a trumpism if ever there was) is the new offering, but based upon what grounds, nevermind its questionable (as highlighted numerous times in this thread) means of delivery. The only thing reform will provide the uk is a party for noise generation without teeth, a rallying point for pitbull expression and probably a short-term derailment of much needed attention which (and regardless of blue or red politics) is desperately needed for the big ticket issues. Trump and maga are NOT the political example this country needs to follow ……
There's a also a large element of protest vote with Reform. Few can disagree the Tories need a kicking, but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Then what? LibDem buffoonery? Green wokery? I suspect for many, Reform offer the opportunity to give the establishment a poke in the eye.
Reform are representing the interests of the establishment. Wouldn't anyone really not be paying enough attention to think it would be a poke in the eye?
Quite the opposite. Reform are challenging the establishment and they're running scared. Voters are sensing the panic and warming to it. Who can blame them?I do t really see this challenging the establishment. The establishment has promised low immigration before (I nite reform don't quantify how much migration we will have); the establishment likes to spend on the NHS, police and defence; labour would love to increase personal allowances.
There's a few new ideas but this is just another standard manifesto, albeit one not constrained by making any effort to balance the books.
Which of course makes it more attractive to everyone. "
....not paying proper attention. |
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"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
No bonus points for you.
Have you done the sums in the Reform manifesto pledges though?
The sums are meaningless of all parties
For the last 27 years, £10bn has been added to the national debt every month
National debt interest is now equivalent to 2/3 the nhs budget.
There is no accountability for financial mismanagement when you dump failure on the national debt credit card for taxpayers.
"
So the answer is “look over there!” |
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"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers"
Self cert , sub prime, expansion of IO buy to let, 120% neg equity mortgages, equity release, shared appreciation, interest only, deferred interest mortgages etc all occurred under new labour. That led up to CC |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers
Self cert , sub prime, expansion of IO buy to let, 120% neg equity mortgages, equity release, shared appreciation, interest only, deferred interest mortgages etc all occurred under new labour. That led up to CC "
But it was systemic and global in nature. Imagine during the late 90s/00s as the world enjoyed an unprecedented global economic boom, Labour turning around and saying “err chaps we think we need a bit more regulation!” At the time the Tories and press would ve spitting feathers! |
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"Excellent manifesto.
I wasn’t going to vote but having seen this, they are definitely getting my vote.
Not me. This is what I'm talking about. The manifesto is not aimed at a broad range of people, in my opinion. It's specifically targeted. "
Yes it’s a solid centre right manifesto aimed at the mass of the working tax paying population.
I’m pretty sure it’s not targeting the extremist loony left fringe so you should be okay. |
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"Excellent manifesto.
I wasn’t going to vote but having seen this, they are definitely getting my vote.
Not me. This is what I'm talking about. The manifesto is not aimed at a broad range of people, in my opinion. It's specifically targeted.
Yes it’s a solid centre right manifesto aimed at the mass of the working tax paying population.
I’m pretty sure it’s not targeting the extremist loony left fringe so you should be okay."
No offence intended. I was just using your posts as an example of the target audience for Reform. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Excellent manifesto.
I wasn’t going to vote but having seen this, they are definitely getting my vote.
Not me. This is what I'm talking about. The manifesto is not aimed at a broad range of people, in my opinion. It's specifically targeted.
Yes it’s a solid centre right manifesto aimed at the mass of the working tax paying population.
I’m pretty sure it’s not targeting the extremist loony left fringe so you should be okay."
Centre-Right  |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
It’s all populism..
Does giving 20% tax relief of a kid going to an independent school help the poorest kids going to your local comp.. no
Does raising the inheritance tax level to 750k help most people… not unless you are living in the south east
They are blatant in saying multiculturalism doesn’t work… why do you think they want a population lncrease in the English people
They are anti lgbt, they are against same sex marriage, they are against history being taught that makes them look bad!
Anti immigration… unless it’s filling gaps in the nhs and social care.. and all the jobs the natives quite frankly don’t fancy
20% tax of business employing foreign workers doesn’t attract the best and brightest to the uk… it will cripple farmers though, I mean.. the food doesn’t pick itself now does it… fancy paying more for your British fruit and vegetables?
Love helping their mates in the oil and gas sectors… hate anything green like wind and solar
Climate science deniers…… anti NHS, I mean.. rich go private, poor rely on a reduced NHS….
And the funniest things.. he finally said Brexit has been a disaster, but absolved himself of any blame saying it’s those other people’s fault!!!!
If the conservatives would take him back, farage would run so fast he’d probably break a world record!
|
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"They are anti lgbt, they are against same sex marriage ..."
Is this an official Reform stance, or just something one of their candidates said?
"Climate science deniers……"
Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science. |
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"They are anti lgbt, they are against same sex marriage ...
Is this an official Reform stance, or just something one of their candidates said?
Climate science deniers……
Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science."
They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto. |
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"Climate science deniers……"
"Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science."
"They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto."
Would you like to quote one of their falsehoods, so that I can tell what you're talking about. |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"They are anti lgbt, they are against same sex marriage ...
Is this an official Reform stance, or just something one of their candidates said?
Climate science deniers……
Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science.
They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto."
they have strupped a lot out from their previous contract. But irrc they conflated localised climate differences (eg Roman warm period) with global climate change. |
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"Climate science deniers……
Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science.
They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto.
Would you like to quote one of their falsehoods, so that I can tell what you're talking about."
I went to have a look to copy and paste some examples, they have replaced the misinformation on the 'energy and environment' page of their site with a link to their manifesto which just has misinformation blaiming "net zero" for energy price increases caused by externally priced fossil fuels going up in price.
If they bring back that page, I will share with you.
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"They are anti lgbt, they are against same sex marriage ...
Is this an official Reform stance, or just something one of their candidates said?
Climate science deniers……
Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science.
They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto.they have strupped a lot out from their previous contract. But irrc they conflated localised climate differences (eg Roman warm period) with global climate change. "
There was also nonsesne about more CO2 being good, and gave an example of a greenhouse containing more CO2 than outside of a greenhouse. |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
From a copy I've saved
"We all care about the environment. Our air has never been cleaner. We want to use technology to do our
bit. But Net Zero is the wrong bit, at the wrong price, in the wrong timeframe. Westminster’s obsession
with Net Zero is damaging our livelihoods and the economy. It has sent energy bills soaring. Made it
harder for businesses to compete. It is costing tens of thousands of jobs and increasing inflation.
Net zero means reducing man made CO2 emissions to stop climate change. It can’t. Climate change has
happened for millions of years, before man made CO2 emissions, and will always change. We are better
to adapt to warming, rather than pretend we can stop it. Up to 10 times more people die of cold than
warmth. In Roman Britain some 2,000 years ago, it was 2 degrees warmer than now. Grapes for wine
were grown in Yorkshire.
CO2 is essential for photosynthesis to enable plant growth. CO2 only represents 0.04% of the
atmosphere; the average garden greenhouse has 3 times more! The UK produces only 1% of global CO2
emissions, yet China produces 27%. China & India are building hundreds of coal fired power stations.
Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years; in other
words they do not have a clue.
Instead, Net Zero sends our money abroad and damages critical industries like steel production. The
government has turned Britain from being an exporter of oil and gas into a net importer. They have bet
our future on unreliable wind and solar power and destroyed our energy security. It’s time for a common
sense energy strategy " |
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"It’s all populism..
Does giving 20% tax relief of a kid going to an independent school help the poorest kids going to your local comp.. no
Does raising the inheritance tax level to 750k help most people… not unless you are living in the south east
They are blatant in saying multiculturalism doesn’t work… why do you think they want a population lncrease in the English people
They are anti lgbt, they are against same sex marriage, they are against history being taught that makes them look bad!
Anti immigration… unless it’s filling gaps in the nhs and social care.. and all the jobs the natives quite frankly don’t fancy
20% tax of business employing foreign workers doesn’t attract the best and brightest to the uk… it will cripple farmers though, I mean.. the food doesn’t pick itself now does it… fancy paying more for your British fruit and vegetables?
Love helping their mates in the oil and gas sectors… hate anything green like wind and solar
Climate science deniers…… anti NHS, I mean.. rich go private, poor rely on a reduced NHS….
And the funniest things.. he finally said Brexit has been a disaster, but absolved himself of any blame saying it’s those other people’s fault!!!!
If the conservatives would take him back, farage would run so fast he’d probably break a world record!
"
_abio you said all this after brexit that the shelves would be empty the food wouldn’t pick it’s self your just repeating the scare story’s you told about brexit they didn’t say they don’t want history that makes us look bad but that they want history with positives not just look how bad British ppl are but look what good we have done why wouldn’t you want that what is wrong about that that you don’t like please tell us ??? |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
I'm not sure what they are referencing with IPC, but I found this quite within minutes of looking
"Ocean and cryosphere changes and risks by the end-of-century (2081-2100) will be larger under high greenhouse gas emission scenarios, compared with low emission scenarios (very high confidence)."
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%"
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what! |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!"
so what should the U.K. do then ? |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!so what should the U.K. do then ?"
We should all do our bit. Plus if moving towards netzero creates new opportunities and new industries/skills then let the UK be a market leader in that. Lead by example BUT our Govt needs a contract with us citizens that we (or our descendants) will benefit from it and develop policies that reward us now and in future. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win."
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system. |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!so what should the U.K. do then ?
We should all do our bit. Plus if moving towards netzero creates new opportunities and new industries/skills then let the UK be a market leader in that. Lead by example BUT our Govt needs a contract with us citizens that we (or our descendants) will benefit from it and develop policies that reward us now and in future."
if we only contribute 1% why should we be the leader why can’t we just do our bit as we have been let us follow for a bit why do we have to lead |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win.
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system."
I think just for the next 5 times are changing fast look at reform |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
_abio you said all this after brexit that the shelves would be empty the food wouldn’t pick it’s self your just repeating the scare story’s you told about brexit they didn’t say they don’t want history that makes us look bad but that they want history with positives not just look how bad British ppl are but look what good we have done why wouldn’t you want that what is wrong about that that you don’t like please tell us ???"
I am going to quote straight from their manifesto….
1) reforms would propose a 20% tax on business that employs foreign workers …
So at the moment when picking season comes to farmers.. are the majority of workers doing this type of work at the moment home grown, or do they come in from overseas?
Do you think businesses will eat that 20% hike in labour , or pass it on to customers?
So I never said the shelves would be empty, I am saying that home grown produce is likely to be more expensive…
2…. The history thing…. Again straight from the book of reform .. I am going to be very careful with the wording
Any teaching about a period or example of British or European imperialism or slav ery must be paired with a teaching of a non British or European occurrence of the same to ensure balance……
Yeah…. Good luck with that!! I’ll find a few massacres!!!
|
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"
_abio you said all this after brexit that the shelves would be empty the food wouldn’t pick it’s self your just repeating the scare story’s you told about brexit they didn’t say they don’t want history that makes us look bad but that they want history with positives not just look how bad British ppl are but look what good we have done why wouldn’t you want that what is wrong about that that you don’t like please tell us ???
I am going to quote straight from their manifesto….
1) reforms would propose a 20% tax on business that employs foreign workers …
So at the moment when picking season comes to farmers.. are the majority of workers doing this type of work at the moment home grown, or do they come in from overseas?
Do you think businesses will eat that 20% hike in labour , or pass it on to customers?
So I never said the shelves would be empty, I am saying that home grown produce is likely to be more expensive…
2…. The history thing…. Again straight from the book of reform .. I am going to be very careful with the wording
Any teaching about a period or example of British or European imperialism or slav ery must be paired with a teaching of a non British or European occurrence of the same to ensure balance……
Yeah…. Good luck with that!! I’ll find a few massacres!!!
"
im not having a go Fabio your a good egg but you did say that you said way more aswell but I’ll leave that and the two points you just mention I think is ok tbf I think that’s a good thing it’s more balanced history for me |
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"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers
Self cert , sub prime, expansion of IO buy to let, 120% neg equity mortgages, equity release, shared appreciation, interest only, deferred interest mortgages etc all occurred under new labour. That led up to CC
But it was systemic and global in nature. Imagine during the late 90s/00s as the world enjoyed an unprecedented global economic boom, Labour turning around and saying “err chaps we think we need a bit more regulation!” At the time the Tories and press would ve spitting feathers!"
Oh so it was Thatcher that sowed the seed but when someone points to all the realy bad things Labour allowed to happen it was a global systemic problem? |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers
Self cert , sub prime, expansion of IO buy to let, 120% neg equity mortgages, equity release, shared appreciation, interest only, deferred interest mortgages etc all occurred under new labour. That led up to CC
But it was systemic and global in nature. Imagine during the late 90s/00s as the world enjoyed an unprecedented global economic boom, Labour turning around and saying “err chaps we think we need a bit more regulation!” At the time the Tories and press would ve spitting feathers!
Oh so it was Thatcher that sowed the seed but when someone points to all the realy bad things Labour allowed to happen it was a global systemic problem?"
deregulation wasn't just Thatcher but a global thing. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!so what should the U.K. do then ?
We should all do our bit. Plus if moving towards netzero creates new opportunities and new industries/skills then let the UK be a market leader in that. Lead by example BUT our Govt needs a contract with us citizens that we (or our descendants) will benefit from it and develop policies that reward us now and in future.if we only contribute 1% why should we be the leader why can’t we just do our bit as we have been let us follow for a bit why do we have to lead "
From a business and innovation point of view = first mover advantage.
But if you do some digging you will find that in reality China is already streets ahead in terms of the range and scale of their activities to tackle this. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers
Self cert , sub prime, expansion of IO buy to let, 120% neg equity mortgages, equity release, shared appreciation, interest only, deferred interest mortgages etc all occurred under new labour. That led up to CC
But it was systemic and global in nature. Imagine during the late 90s/00s as the world enjoyed an unprecedented global economic boom, Labour turning around and saying “err chaps we think we need a bit more regulation!” At the time the Tories and press would ve spitting feathers!
Oh so it was Thatcher that sowed the seed but when someone points to all the realy bad things Labour allowed to happen it was a global systemic problem?"
Erm well yeah! You can easily google it. I ain’t making this shit up  |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"It’s all fun pretending that Reform are a serious political party and everything but has anyone done the sums for on their manifesto pledges?
(Bonus points for anyone who can answer without mentioning other political parties)
There is no credibility to other party financial credibility
Tories, national debt trebled to £2.trn equivalent to £100k per household
Highest tax rises since 1948. 14 years of austerity
Prev labour, national debt doubled. Costly wars leaving one million dead in Iraq, gold sold off at a discount. Deregulation of financial services leading to credit crunch.
Err Labour did not deregulate financial services. That started with the “big bang” in 1986 under Thatcher. It sowed the seeds of the 2008 financial crisis:
- Abolishing minimum fixed commissions on trades
- Ending the separation between those who traded stocks and shares and those who advised investors
- Allowing foreign firms to own UK brokers
Self cert , sub prime, expansion of IO buy to let, 120% neg equity mortgages, equity release, shared appreciation, interest only, deferred interest mortgages etc all occurred under new labour. That led up to CC
But it was systemic and global in nature. Imagine during the late 90s/00s as the world enjoyed an unprecedented global economic boom, Labour turning around and saying “err chaps we think we need a bit more regulation!” At the time the Tories and press would ve spitting feathers!
Oh so it was Thatcher that sowed the seed but when someone points to all the realy bad things Labour allowed to happen it was a global systemic problem?deregulation wasn't just Thatcher but a global thing. "
Deregulation of financial services was driven by the libertarian thinking championed by the Thatcher and Reagan administrations. The big bang changed everything. It then continued thereafter.
I am pointing out that laying the blame for the 2007/8 financial crisis at Labours feet is inaccurate. They were complicit but the journey to the crisis started way before. |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!"
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
|
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
"
problem with that is China as more than 20 ppl to our 1 and produce still nearly two ton a head more by your numbers |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
problem with that is China as more than 20 ppl to our 1 and produce still nearly two ton a head more by your numbers "
See my point 2  |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!"
1) Even per capita china are still well above the UK. A crazy statistic when you think about it...
2) I could not agree more. Alit of our reduction on Co2 emissions has been the destruction of our manufacturing that has now been ofshored to developing countries. It's a false economy and something should be done about it. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1) Even per capita china are still well above the UK. A crazy statistic when you think about it...
2) I could not agree more. Alit of our reduction on Co2 emissions has been the destruction of our manufacturing that has now been ofshored to developing countries. It's a false economy and something should be done about it."
What should we do about it? |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
"
China is around 19th per capita we are around 50th. You are being misleading. UK emissions are also on a downward trajectory, where as China's are increasing at an incredibly rate.. |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
problem with that is China as more than 20 ppl to our 1 and produce still nearly two ton a head more by your numbers "
Yeah, China need to get a wriggle on.
Not sure why that would mean we shouldn't move towards a lower carbon energy generation profile. Long term cheaper, gives us energy independence, no longer reliant on externally priced fossil fuels, helps to combat climate change.
Win/win/win/win |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1) Even per capita china are still well above the UK. A crazy statistic when you think about it...
2) I could not agree more. Alit of our reduction on Co2 emissions has been the destruction of our manufacturing that has now been ofshored to developing countries. It's a false economy and something should be done about it."
You would need to use tarrifs on things like steal that has not been made in the new arc reactors or a change In how countries co2 usage is calculated to account for manufacturing that has basically been offshore. |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
China is around 19th per capita we are around 50th. You are being misleading. UK emissions are also on a downward trajectory, where as China's are increasing at an incredibly rate.."
Actual amounts are not misleading. Rank is meaningless.
|
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
China is around 19th per capita we are around 50th. You are being misleading. UK emissions are also on a downward trajectory, where as China's are increasing at an incredibly rate..
Actual amounts are not misleading. Rank is meaningless.
"
Even in actual amounts we are not "close" to China. Its nearly a 2 ton per person difference. That is a massive amount.
|
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win.
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system."
No, you said we’d have socialism, Labour is not a socialist party, it’s at best centrist, at worst right of centre. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win.
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system.
No, you said we’d have socialism, Labour is not a socialist party, it’s at best centrist, at worst right of centre."
Labour right of center? Lmfao |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win.
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system.
No, you said we’d have socialism, Labour is not a socialist party, it’s at best centrist, at worst right of centre.
Labour right of center? Lmfao "
The Overton Window has moved to the right and Labour has moved with it, in comparison with other current parties Labour might not be right of centre but in comparison to Labour of 30, even 20 years ago, they very much are. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win.
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system.
No, you said we’d have socialism, Labour is not a socialist party, it’s at best centrist, at worst right of centre.
Labour right of center? Lmfao
The Overton Window has moved to the right and Labour has moved with it, in comparison with other current parties Labour might not be right of centre but in comparison to Labour of 30, even 20 years ago, they very much are."
I’d say Labour are just about Left of Centre these days. Certainly Labour in the 70s were Left. But as you say it depends on where your personal Overton Window is.
It also depends on which policies take precedent, economic or social. |
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"He knows full well they won't be in government so they can propose any old uncosted nonsense.
To be fair that is true most elections for all parties except Labour and conservative. This time even the conservatives don't need to worry about implementing anything claimed in their manifesto.
If you go with the highest estimate in the polls for Tory and Reform. They have a higher % than Labour' average.
Could we see a coalition government. The dream team of Sunak and Farage.
If it wasn't a first past the post system. It's a pretty safe bet that your going to more socialism not less probably for the next 10 years.
I doubt that very much, Labour are going to win.
That's what I said.. You will have a Labour government probably forthe next ten year due to us having a first past the post system.
No, you said we’d have socialism, Labour is not a socialist party, it’s at best centrist, at worst right of centre.
Labour right of center? Lmfao
The Overton Window has moved to the right and Labour has moved with it, in comparison with other current parties Labour might not be right of centre but in comparison to Labour of 30, even 20 years ago, they very much are.
I’d say Labour are just about Left of Centre these days. Certainly Labour in the 70s were Left. But as you say it depends on where your personal Overton Window is.
It also depends on which policies take precedent, economic or social."
I was just browsing their manifesto. Lots of it is fairly centre. Some of it sounds good, some of it sounds like more of the same.
Hard to know if they will be centre left or centre right.
|
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"Climate science deniers……"
"Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science."
"They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto."
"Would you like to quote one of their falsehoods, so that I can tell what you're talking about."
"I went to have a look to copy and paste some examples, they have replaced the misinformation on the 'energy and environment' page of their site with a link to their manifesto which just has misinformation blaiming "net zero" for energy price increases caused by externally priced fossil fuels going up in price."
Net zero is a partial cause of energy price rises. We used to have lots of coal-fired power stations, but we replaced them all with gas-fired to meet environmental targets. There's plenty of coal still in the ground, if we still had the power stations, we could move away from gas quite quickly.
Just to be clear, I don't think that burning coal is a good idea. It isn't. But our eagerness to cut down on fossil fuel emissions has resulted in us being beholden to others for our fuels. That's not Reform misinformation. |
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"Climate science deniers……
Are they?
I don't see them denying that climate change is real. From what I've read, they are saying that climate change doesn't constitute a crisis, and that we have time to deal with it. That's a cost and benefit decision, rather than a denial of the science.
They make lots of inaccurate, misleading, false claims on their manifesto.
Would you like to quote one of their falsehoods, so that I can tell what you're talking about.
I went to have a look to copy and paste some examples, they have replaced the misinformation on the 'energy and environment' page of their site with a link to their manifesto which just has misinformation blaiming "net zero" for energy price increases caused by externally priced fossil fuels going up in price.
Net zero is a partial cause of energy price rises. We used to have lots of coal-fired power stations, but we replaced them all with gas-fired to meet environmental targets. There's plenty of coal still in the ground, if we still had the power stations, we could move away from gas quite quickly.
Just to be clear, I don't think that burning coal is a good idea. It isn't. But our eagerness to cut down on fossil fuel emissions has resulted in us being beholden to others for our fuels. That's not Reform misinformation."
Was the move from coal to gas part of the drive to reach net zero? |
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"Net zero is a partial cause of energy price rises. We used to have lots of coal-fired power stations, but we replaced them all with gas-fired to meet environmental targets. There's plenty of coal still in the ground, if we still had the power stations, we could move away from gas quite quickly.
Just to be clear, I don't think that burning coal is a good idea. It isn't. But our eagerness to cut down on fossil fuel emissions has resulted in us being beholden to others for our fuels. That's not Reform misinformation."
"Was the move from coal to gas part of the drive to reach net zero?"
Yes.
Back then they used the phrase "phase out of fossil fuels", but it's the same drive. |
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"Net zero is a partial cause of energy price rises. We used to have lots of coal-fired power stations, but we replaced them all with gas-fired to meet environmental targets. There's plenty of coal still in the ground, if we still had the power stations, we could move away from gas quite quickly.
Just to be clear, I don't think that burning coal is a good idea. It isn't. But our eagerness to cut down on fossil fuel emissions has resulted in us being beholden to others for our fuels. That's not Reform misinformation.
Was the move from coal to gas part of the drive to reach net zero?
Yes.
Back then they used the phrase "phase out of fossil fuels", but it's the same drive."
Okay, so at best the Reform energy policy is only partly misleading.
More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website. |
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"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website."
He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment. |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website.
He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment."
"Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years"
I can't find anything to suggest they said this. What I have found suggests the opposite. |
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"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website."
"He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment."
""Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years"
I can't find anything to suggest they said this. What I have found suggests the opposite."
My understanding of this is that Reform are saying that IPCC predictions are that if we achieve net zero tomorrow, sea levels would continue to rise at roughly today's rate for possibly up to 1000 years. My quick skim of some IPCC reports seems to back this up. |
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"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website.
He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment."
You're just taking the piss now surely?
"
We all care about the environment. Our air has never been cleaner.
"
What air where, by what measure, without any additional information, this is meaningless and is designed to misdirected. The cleanness of air is not related to the discussion of climate change.
"
We want to use technology to do our
bit. But Net Zero is the wrong bit, at the wrong price, in the wrong timeframe. Westminster’s obsession
with Net Zero is damaging our livelihoods and the economy.
"
This rant section is subjective at best, bullshit at worst.
"
It has sent energy bills soaring.
"
False, as we discussed earlier
"
Made it
harder for businesses to compete. It is costing tens of thousands of jobs and increasing inflation.
"
Also false
"
Net zero means reducing man made CO2 emissions to stop climate change. It can’t.
"
False. Is not about stopping climate change, it's about stopping the manmade acceleration of climate change.
"
Climate change has
happened for millions of years, before man made CO2 emissions, and will always change.
"
Correct, but utterly irrelevant.
"
We are better
to adapt to warming, rather than pretend we can stop it.
"
Completely false. Clearly shows whoever wrote this is either thick as pigshit, or more likely they know it's a crock of shit and they just put it in to serve their political purposes
"
Up to 10 times more people die of cold than
warmth.
"
This has absolutely nothing to do with the climate change debate, and again is here to misdirected people (unless the author really is this stupid).
"
In Roman Britain some 2,000 years ago, it was 2 degrees warmer than now. Grapes for wine
were grown in Yorkshire.
"
If they picked a different period in history, they would find it's colder. This is here to make people think that human activity since the industrial revolution hasn't had any effect. It's misleading.
"
CO2 is essential for photosynthesis to enable plant growth. CO2 only represents 0.04% of the
atmosphere;
"
This is designed to make it look like more CO2 is good for the planet, which is completely false.
"
the average garden greenhouse has 3 times more!
"
They're just taking the piss now.
"
The UK produces only 1% of global CO2
emissions, yet China produces 27%. China & India are building hundreds of coal fired power stations.
"
They're also building solar farms and wind farms. And what's the argument here that we should do nothing because of China?
"
Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years; in other
words they do not have a clue.
"
Contradicted themselves here. Also this implies that sea levels rising is the big problem caused by climate change. It's not.
"
Instead, Net Zero sends our money abroad and damages critical industries like steel production. The
government has turned Britain from being an exporter of oil and gas into a net importer. They have bet
our future on unreliable wind and solar power and destroyed our energy security. It’s time for a common
sense energy strategy
"
You get the picture. |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website.
He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment.
"Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years"
I can't find anything to suggest they said this. What I have found suggests the opposite.
My understanding of this is that Reform are saying that IPCC predictions are that if we achieve net zero tomorrow, sea levels would continue to rise at roughly today's rate for possibly up to 1000 years. My quick skim of some IPCC reports seems to back this up."
which report ? |
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"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website.
He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment.
"Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years"
I can't find anything to suggest they said this. What I have found suggests the opposite.
My understanding of this is that Reform are saying that IPCC predictions are that if we achieve net zero tomorrow, sea levels would continue to rise at roughly today's rate for possibly up to 1000 years. My quick skim of some IPCC reports seems to back this up."
And a 25% / 2 billion increase in global population by 2080 (UN). Mainly from emerging economies with aspirations of western living standards
1% increase in temperature = 2% increase in energy consumption
Best intentions of net zero will not combat nature. |
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"More interestingly, the other chap posted up their environment policy prior to them changing the links on their website.
He did. I see lots of opinion in there that you and I might disagree with, but I don't see any falsehoods. I see some things that could be misleading, but only on a par with everyone else's statements about the environment.
"Even the IPCC admits Net Zero would make no difference to sea level rise for 200-1,000 years"
I can't find anything to suggest they said this. What I have found suggests the opposite.
My understanding of this is that Reform are saying that IPCC predictions are that if we achieve net zero tomorrow, sea levels would continue to rise at roughly today's rate for possibly up to 1000 years. My quick skim of some IPCC reports seems to back this up.
And a 25% / 2 billion increase in global population by 2080 (UN). Mainly from emerging economies with aspirations of western living standards
1% increase in temperature = 2% increase in energy consumption
Best intentions of net zero will not combat nature. "
what is nature in this case ? |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
"
Here’s some random comparators from across the globe, for context:
Qatar 35.52
Gibraltar 18.96
New Caledonia 18.24
Luxembourg 12.26
Greenland 8.17
Greece 5.14
Whichever way you cut the numbers, the UK is a complete minnow.
|
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By *AFKA Hovis OP Man 2 weeks ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
Here’s some random comparators from across the globe, for context:
Qatar 35.52
Gibraltar 18.96
New Caledonia 18.24
Luxembourg 12.26
Greenland 8.17
Greece 5.14
Whichever way you cut the numbers, the UK is a complete minnow.
"
most are because they are involved with fuel.
Consumption is a better comparison. I posted numbers above. |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
Two things:
1. How does China and UK compare per capita?
2. The west are fully complicit with the increase of CO2 in China thanks to us exporting most of our heavy industry and production to China. You can’t get them to handle all the dirty manufacturing jobs and then moan they are “dirty”! Hypocritical or what!
1. We're close to China with CO2 emissions per person.
China 7.44 tons per person, per year
UK 5.6 tons per person, per year
Here’s some random comparators from across the globe, for context:
Qatar 35.52
Gibraltar 18.96
New Caledonia 18.24
Luxembourg 12.26
Greenland 8.17
Greece 5.14
Whichever way you cut the numbers, the UK is a complete minnow.
most are because they are involved with fuel.
Consumption is a better comparison. I posted numbers above. "
I count about fifty countries that have higher emissions than the UK, many of them our EU neighbours. The vast majority of them have nothing to do with fuel. |
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"The UK produces only 1% of global CO2 emissions, yet China produces 27%
."
China makes up 28.7% of the total global output for manufacturing. China manufacturing output $4trn pa (2023)
Uk in eight place apparently. £191bn pa (2023) |
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By *otMe66Man 2 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
Do these numbers include China’s expansion projects of building infrastructure such as the BRI to provide supply routes as an example?
That alone should put it at the top of the list I would have thought. |
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Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider. |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider. "
All well saying all that…. But I have not heard yet from one independent financial analysis organisation yet that the figures provided are nowhere near plausible.. and that the financial figures add up!
The best I have seen any independent organisation give is that there is a probable black hole in their figures of anywhere between 11bn and 38bn pounds….. |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
So just to highlight for example one of the things that sounds impressive but means not much… let’s look at the inheritance tax proposal
The proposal is to raise the current inheritance tax figure from £325,000 to £750,000….
Sounds good..right?
Question….. what percentage of estates of people who passed away last year paid any inheritance tax?
Answer…. It was a whopping 4% of estates!!!
So… who is really benefiting from this policy?…. Probably Nigel and Richard… and his rich mates!!!
|
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"So just to highlight for example one of the things that sounds impressive but means not much… let’s look at the inheritance tax proposal
The proposal is to raise the current inheritance tax figure from £325,000 to £750,000….
Sounds good..right?
Question….. what percentage of estates of people who passed away last year paid any inheritance tax?
Answer…. It was a whopping 4% of estates!!!
So… who is really benefiting from this policy?…. Probably Nigel and Richard… and his rich mates!!!
"
So on the one hand you label Reform “populist”.
And on the other you claim that their policies only benefit a few rich people and are probably based on nepotism.
Make your mind up! |
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"So just to highlight for example one of the things that sounds impressive but means not much… let’s look at the inheritance tax proposal
The proposal is to raise the current inheritance tax figure from £325,000 to £750,000….
Sounds good..right?
Question….. what percentage of estates of people who passed away last year paid any inheritance tax?
Answer…. It was a whopping 4% of estates!!!
So… who is really benefiting from this policy?…. Probably Nigel and Richard… and his rich mates!!!
"
Iht to a fools tax
£325k threshold + £175k residency relief = £500k
X 2 if married. = £1M estate (no tax payable)
Anything over this should be transferred by unlimited PET via 7 year rule
Anyone who does not follow this and ends up with IHT liability is a clot and deserves to pay 40% tax. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider.
All well saying all that…. But I have not heard yet from one independent financial analysis organisation yet that the figures provided are nowhere near plausible.. and that the financial figures add up!
The best I have seen any independent organisation give is that there is a probable black hole in their figures of anywhere between 11bn and 38bn pounds….."
What did the financial independent advisors say about labours plan to fund everything through closing out non dom tax breaks, loopholes and making private schools pay vat? Was it all good or any doubt there is enough money? |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"So just to highlight for example one of the things that sounds impressive but means not much… let’s look at the inheritance tax proposal
The proposal is to raise the current inheritance tax figure from £325,000 to £750,000….
Sounds good..right?
Question….. what percentage of estates of people who passed away last year paid any inheritance tax?
Answer…. It was a whopping 4% of estates!!!
So… who is really benefiting from this policy?…. Probably Nigel and Richard… and his rich mates!!!
So on the one hand you label Reform “populist”.
And on the other you claim that their policies only benefit a few rich people and are probably based on nepotism.
Make your mind up!"
It can absolutely be both.. for example a tax cut could help those struggling a little, however the majority beneficiaries of a tax cut and who get the most out it could well be the most wealthy
A lot of their tax policies in % terms benefit the richest rather than the poorest….
Anyone in a red wall seat thinking of voting for reform is falling for the same fools gold the snake oil salesman Nigel farage is peddling as the same fools gold the snake oil salesmen Boris Johnson did….
What’s the phrase…. Fool me once, shame on you… fool me twice, shame on me!!! |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider.
All well saying all that…. But I have not heard yet from one independent financial analysis organisation yet that the figures provided are nowhere near plausible.. and that the financial figures add up!
The best I have seen any independent organisation give is that there is a probable black hole in their figures of anywhere between 11bn and 38bn pounds…..
What did the financial independent advisors say about labours plan to fund everything through closing out non dom tax breaks, loopholes and making private schools pay vat? Was it all good or any doubt there is enough money?"
So far it seems none of the parties have actually got “fully costed manifesto* spending promises” as they are all based on speculative finger in the air estimations of possible future tax take and growth.
In other words take it all with a massive pinch of salt!
*and of course we know manifestoes are immediately void the day after the election when the bonnet has been lifted and the new govt sees the shit underneath! |
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"Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider.
All well saying all that…. But I have not heard yet from one independent financial analysis organisation yet that the figures provided are nowhere near plausible.. and that the financial figures add up!
The best I have seen any independent organisation give is that there is a probable black hole in their figures of anywhere between 11bn and 38bn pounds…..
What did the financial independent advisors say about labours plan to fund everything through closing out non dom tax breaks, loopholes and making private schools pay vat? Was it all good or any doubt there is enough money?
So far it seems none of the parties have actually got “fully costed manifesto* spending promises” as they are all based on speculative finger in the air estimations of possible future tax take and growth.
In other words take it all with a massive pinch of salt!
*and of course we know manifestoes are immediately void the day after the election when the bonnet has been lifted and the new govt sees the shit underneath!"
Except Count Binface who has published 24 commendable pledges, all of them affordable. |
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By *irldnCouple 2 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider.
All well saying all that…. But I have not heard yet from one independent financial analysis organisation yet that the figures provided are nowhere near plausible.. and that the financial figures add up!
The best I have seen any independent organisation give is that there is a probable black hole in their figures of anywhere between 11bn and 38bn pounds…..
What did the financial independent advisors say about labours plan to fund everything through closing out non dom tax breaks, loopholes and making private schools pay vat? Was it all good or any doubt there is enough money?
So far it seems none of the parties have actually got “fully costed manifesto* spending promises” as they are all based on speculative finger in the air estimations of possible future tax take and growth.
In other words take it all with a massive pinch of salt!
*and of course we know manifestoes are immediately void the day after the election when the bonnet has been lifted and the new govt sees the shit underneath!
Except Count Binface who has published 24 commendable pledges, all of them affordable."
Oh I forgot him/her/them lol |
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"Those of us whom watched the contract announcement without a screwed up face and fingers in ears, will know that Nigel explained what Reform are promising. Then Richard explained how it would be implemented, and how it would be paid for. Scrapping net zero is one idea. The way that has been supposedly implemented is to export our emissions to other countries, thus doing absolutely nothing to help stop climate change etc.
I’m not going into the whole thing here, I haven’t got the time and am not great at typing. But I will vote Reform, as will so many others. The new conservative movement has started in this country, and although I expect only a handful of candidates will get elected this time. The election in 2029 is the most important thing to consider.
All well saying all that…. But I have not heard yet from one independent financial analysis organisation yet that the figures provided are nowhere near plausible.. and that the financial figures add up!
The best I have seen any independent organisation give is that there is a probable black hole in their figures of anywhere between 11bn and 38bn pounds…..
What did the financial independent advisors say about labours plan to fund everything through closing out non dom tax breaks, loopholes and making private schools pay vat? Was it all good or any doubt there is enough money?
So far it seems none of the parties have actually got “fully costed manifesto* spending promises” as they are all based on speculative finger in the air estimations of possible future tax take and growth.
In other words take it all with a massive pinch of salt!
*and of course we know manifestoes are immediately void the day after the election when the bonnet has been lifted and the new govt sees the shit underneath!
Except Count Binface who has published 24 commendable pledges, all of them affordable."
Can "what about Count Binface" be the new "what about Labour"? It would be a lot more fun. |
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Raise tax allowance and lower universal credit bill ... welfare will be reformed again, hopefully encourage work etc
..................
Are you trying to force people into work.. I.e make people go through all the examinations they use to do for PIP?
"
Increasing tax allowances to £20,000 will put more money directly into the pockets of people on low income, there is currently a huge gap between £12,500 - £50,270. People working full time on minimum wage would still be paying tax.
Many of these families, in some areas, are already on benefit so may not see much change in their income but it could incentivise some who are not working to get work.
The Government would take less in tax but spend less on benefit payments, over all the balance would be negative.
"Or you trying to stop people retiring early like doctors.. but you are incentivising people who could retire by taxing them less.. so aren’t wouldn’t the wealthy be more wealthy?"
The wealthy are the ones earning above £50,000, so the above would not help or hurt them, although the Government would be out of pocket so would need to raise that difference.
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I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform… |
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"I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform…"
The current minimum wage is £11.44 for people in full time work that equals £20,000+. If you only work part time then you won't be on that.
If somebody is working and getting benefits these are often calculated on income, the more they earn the less benefit they get, so sometimes people are no better off.
I would not say the above is a reason to vote reform but I would like to see Farage win his seat and become a thorn in the side of whoever is in Government next |
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"I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform…
The current minimum wage is £11.44 for people in full time work that equals £20,000+. If you only work part time then you won't be on that.
If somebody is working and getting benefits these are often calculated on income, the more they earn the less benefit they get, so sometimes people are no better off.
I would not say the above is a reason to vote reform but I would like to see Farage win his seat and become a thorn in the side of whoever is in Government next "
Trouble is he has no costed credible plans for the spectrum of issues that the country faces. As such, he deserves little attention. The Fu Der Tice, doesn't even believe in global heating. There's no place for people who don't accept science and reality, in shaping national investment and management of the complexity of reality |
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By *otMe66Man 2 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform…
The current minimum wage is £11.44 for people in full time work that equals £20,000+. If you only work part time then you won't be on that.
If somebody is working and getting benefits these are often calculated on income, the more they earn the less benefit they get, so sometimes people are no better off.
I would not say the above is a reason to vote reform but I would like to see Farage win his seat and become a thorn in the side of whoever is in Government next
Trouble is he has no costed credible plans for the spectrum of issues that the country faces. As such, he deserves little attention. The Fu Der Tice, doesn't even believe in global heating. There's no place for people who don't accept science and reality, in shaping national investment and management of the complexity of reality "
Can you explain to me labours fiscal regulation which forms the base of investment towards all policies in their manifesto? |
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"I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform…
The current minimum wage is £11.44 for people in full time work that equals £20,000+. If you only work part time then you won't be on that.
If somebody is working and getting benefits these are often calculated on income, the more they earn the less benefit they get, so sometimes people are no better off.
I would not say the above is a reason to vote reform but I would like to see Farage win his seat and become a thorn in the side of whoever is in Government next "
I work 32 hours a week, which equates to four days. I don’t get benefits, so if they raise the tax allowance I won’t have to pay any. But of course I can see why you would want Nigel in parliament, just trying to keep the idiots honest. I would like to see more than one Reform candidates elected. |
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"I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform…
The current minimum wage is £11.44 for people in full time work that equals £20,000+. If you only work part time then you won't be on that.
If somebody is working and getting benefits these are often calculated on income, the more they earn the less benefit they get, so sometimes people are no better off.
I would not say the above is a reason to vote reform but I would like to see Farage win his seat and become a thorn in the side of whoever is in Government next
I work 32 hours a week, which equates to four days. I don’t get benefits, so if they raise the tax allowance I won’t have to pay any. But of course I can see why you would want Nigel in parliament, just trying to keep the idiots honest. I would like to see more than one Reform candidates elected."
Why would one of the most dishonest people in the UK "keep the idiots honest"? |
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"I am on minimum wage and get nowhere near £20,000 a year. I do have to pay tax, enough to make a difference to my take home pay. So if the tax allowance is raised to £20,000, I will pay no tax.
Another reason to vote Reform…
The current minimum wage is £11.44 for people in full time work that equals £20,000+. If you only work part time then you won't be on that.
If somebody is working and getting benefits these are often calculated on income, the more they earn the less benefit they get, so sometimes people are no better off.
I would not say the above is a reason to vote reform but I would like to see Farage win his seat and become a thorn in the side of whoever is in Government next
I work 32 hours a week, which equates to four days. I don’t get benefits, so if they raise the tax allowance I won’t have to pay any. But of course I can see why you would want Nigel in parliament, just trying to keep the idiots honest. I would like to see more than one Reform candidates elected.
Why would one of the most dishonest people in the UK "keep the idiots honest"? "
***********************************
"one of the most dishonest people in the UK"
Where do you get these fancies.....?
Can it be irrefutably proven...??
(Incidentally..., I have no preference for ANY political party or ANY politician of ANY persuasion. I live by the absolute, untainted TRUTH in my existence on Earth) |
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