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Israel says 300 Palestinian gunman killed in Rafah offensive
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison " Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas." How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October?" It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman." Trusting the civilian death records from hamas themselves? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. Trusting the civilian death records from hamas themselves? " Nope. No need. If you're trying to divert the argument that it's only 34,999 or some such. Crack on. It's not relevant to the point I made. | |||
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" If you're trying to divert the argument that it's only 34,999 or some such. Crack on. It's not relevant to the point I made. " Not at all, just reports are overexagerated, recently in rafah and the hospital are the most egregious. All figures of civilian deaths are reported by hamas and taken as gospel. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman." You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous." I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene." A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene." Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. | |||
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" If you're trying to divert the argument that it's only 34,999 or some such. Crack on. It's not relevant to the point I made. Not at all, just reports are overexagerated, recently in rafah and the hospital are the most egregious. All figures of civilian deaths are reported by hamas and taken as gospel." “4 Jan 2024 — Israel has dropped more than 45,000 bombs on Gaza weighing more than 65,000 tonnes” The 35,000 is just as likely underestimated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. " And the poor souls buried under rubble, those figures are yet to come. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" If you're trying to divert the argument that it's only 34,999 or some such. Crack on. It's not relevant to the point I made. Not at all, just reports are overexagerated, recently in rafah and the hospital are the most egregious. All figures of civilian deaths are reported by hamas and taken as gospel. “4 Jan 2024 — Israel has dropped more than 45,000 bombs on Gaza weighing more than 65,000 tonnes” The 35,000 is just as likely underestimated. " Nothing wrong with the drop size in munitions. The 35k is most likely an overestimate. Not to ditract that there needs to be minimalistic casualties. Look at the reports that 45 died and 220 were injured in 4 tents catching fire because of secondary explosions Hamas need to stop using things that lose their protection when it's used for military use. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm" Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. " How many civilians and gunman for each hostage? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. " Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x" The 38% homes might remain, but whether they are habitable or safe is another matter. Accurate numbers in a war are hard to rely on. Maybe that's why Israel keeps journalists out? What is it they don't want the world to see? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. " You are right it is obscene but that's the terrible consequence of an urban war, 90% of casualties are civilians, Mrs x | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison " Isreal are above the law as far as the likes of the USA and the UK are concerned. I'm fucking fed up of Isreal's atrocities mounting up and being defended by us. I'm ashamed of this country and government | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x The 38% homes might remain, but whether they are habitable or safe is another matter. Accurate numbers in a war are hard to rely on. Maybe that's why Israel keeps journalists out? What is it they don't want the world to see?" So everyone in Gaza is homeless then, the whole population? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. You are right it is obscene but that's the terrible consequence of an urban war, 90% of casualties are civilians, Mrs x" Lies and excuses to facilitate mass murder | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x The 38% homes might remain, but whether they are habitable or safe is another matter. Accurate numbers in a war are hard to rely on. Maybe that's why Israel keeps journalists out? What is it they don't want the world to see?So everyone in Gaza is homeless then, the whole population? Mrs x" A lot more than Isrealis!! Palisitinians were forced out their homes and moved to palistine to make way for non indigenous white European Jews to move into and are still stealing land! The now overpopulated Gaza with loads of refugees are now being starved, denied medical aid , and your still defending a country lead by people wanted by the ICC for genocide.. unbelievable! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x The 38% homes might remain, but whether they are habitable or safe is another matter. Accurate numbers in a war are hard to rely on. Maybe that's why Israel keeps journalists out? What is it they don't want the world to see?So everyone in Gaza is homeless then, the whole population? Mrs x A lot more than Isrealis!! Palisitinians were forced out their homes and moved to palistine to make way for non indigenous white European Jews to move into and are still stealing land! The now overpopulated Gaza with loads of refugees are now being starved, denied medical aid , and your still defending a country lead by people wanted by the ICC for genocide.. unbelievable! " I've just queried some numbers here and you respond the way you do, unbelievable. Mrs x | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. " Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?  | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics? "9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine. Please direct the childish insult at yourself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself. ""The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this. The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x The 38% homes might remain, but whether they are habitable or safe is another matter. Accurate numbers in a war are hard to rely on. Maybe that's why Israel keeps journalists out? What is it they don't want the world to see?So everyone in Gaza is homeless then, the whole population? Mrs x A lot more than Isrealis!! Palisitinians were forced out their homes and moved to palistine to make way for non indigenous white European Jews to move into and are still stealing land! The now overpopulated Gaza with loads of refugees are now being starved, denied medical aid , and your still defending a country lead by people wanted by the ICC for genocide.. unbelievable! I've just queried some numbers here and you respond the way you do, unbelievable. Mrs x" Usual boring response from a defender of wanted suspects of mass murder. How about you stop telling lies, excuses and baseless accusations, and wake up to the smell of what you're shoveling! | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story."These deaths are not solely due to urban warfare 45,000 bombs dropped on densely populated civilian towns and cities Gaza Strip one of the most densely populated places on the planet, with 6,507 people in every square kilometre. Hard not to miss any civilians with those 2000 pound bombs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. Add the 90,000 injured, 18000 orphans and 2,100,000 homeless, 62% of all dwellings reported destroyed. Can I ask about some of these figures. If you are saying that 2.1 million are homeless with 62% of dwellings being destroyed doesn't appear to add up. This homeless figure almost adds up to the total population of Gaza, which stood at about 2.3 million. Yet 38% of dwellings must remain if the figure you're quoting is correct. So the homeless figure cannot be anywhere near the figure you've given. I know this is still a terrible human catastrophe but I'm just trying to point out the problem with some of the figures quoted in this conflict. Even the UN revised the number of casualties of woman and children on the 6th May, reducing it to 13,000. All innocent lives lost is a tragedy but not sure most of the figures can be trusted. Mrs x The 38% homes might remain, but whether they are habitable or safe is another matter. Accurate numbers in a war are hard to rely on. Maybe that's why Israel keeps journalists out? What is it they don't want the world to see?So everyone in Gaza is homeless then, the whole population? Mrs x A lot more than Isrealis!! Palisitinians were forced out their homes and moved to palistine to make way for non indigenous white European Jews to move into and are still stealing land! The now overpopulated Gaza with loads of refugees are now being starved, denied medical aid , and your still defending a country lead by people wanted by the ICC for genocide.. unbelievable! I've just queried some numbers here and you respond the way you do, unbelievable. Mrs x Usual boring response from a defender of wanted suspects of mass murder. How about you stop telling lies, excuses and baseless accusations, and wake up to the smell of what you're shoveling!" What lied S?. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
These deaths are not solely due to urban warfare
45,000 bombs dropped on densely populated civilian towns and cities
Gaza Strip one of the most densely populated places on the planet, with 6,507 people in every square kilometre. Hard not to miss any civilians with those 2000 pound bombs.
"Not saying I agree with Israels tactics but who am I to say how they should respond to being attacked. Hamas shouldn't be hiding behind its own population. They want these casualties. Mrs x | |||
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" These deaths are not solely due to urban warfare 45,000 bombs dropped on densely populated civilian towns and cities Gaza Strip one of the most densely populated places on the planet, with 6,507 people in every square kilometre. Hard not to miss any civilians with those 2000 pound bombs. Not saying I agree with Israels tactics but who am I to say how they should respond to being attacked. Hamas shouldn't be hiding behind its own population. They want these casualties. Mrs x" What is the staring line for these attacks During the past decade, the United Nations has verified 3,372 violent incidents by Israeli settlers, against Palestinians. Last year, settler violence reached the highest levels ever recorded by the United Nations. Israel has failed to investigate and prosecute crimes against Palestinians committed by settlers and Israeli forces. (UN) There are 700,000 Israelis (UN) living in illegal settlements in the West Bank. Land taken illegally by force from Palestinians. Israeli actions have made two million more Palestinians homeless, killed Israeli hostages trying to surrender (shot by IDF), killed aid workers and journalists. Israeli aggression has no limits. Nobody here i believe is supporting Hamas either. | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story."Okay. I see what you're saying. Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world. | |||
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" Okay. I see what you're saying. Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world."  | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. " Executed? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Executed?" Think lots of emotive language is used on here to fan the flames of division. I can understand people being upset by the terrible tragedies occurring in Gaza but use of such language does nothing to advance any debate on the issued. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Executed?Think lots of emotive language is used on here to fan the flames of division. I can understand people being upset by the terrible tragedies occurring in Gaza but use of such language does nothing to advance any debate on the issued. Mrs x" Ermmmmm "Burning babies alive" Vs "casualties of war". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Executed?Think lots of emotive language is used on here to fan the flames of division. I can understand people being upset by the terrible tragedies occurring in Gaza but use of such language does nothing to advance any debate on the issued. Mrs x Ermmmmm "Burning babies alive" Vs "casualties of war". " They are factual statements, they'd be used by news agencies in their reports. Babies were burnt and there are thousands of casualties of war. Same agencies wouldn't use 'murdered' or 'executed', these are both incorrect and designed to cause an emotional reaction from the readers. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Executed?Think lots of emotive language is used on here to fan the flames of division. I can understand people being upset by the terrible tragedies occurring in Gaza but use of such language does nothing to advance any debate on the issued. Mrs x" Agreed and those who do I tend to ignore most of what they say because it's also most likely to be twisted 'truth'. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Executed?Think lots of emotive language is used on here to fan the flames of division. I can understand people being upset by the terrible tragedies occurring in Gaza but use of such language does nothing to advance any debate on the issued. Mrs x Ermmmmm "Burning babies alive" Vs "casualties of war". They are factual statements, they'd be used by news agencies in their reports. Babies were burnt and there are thousands of casualties of war. Same agencies wouldn't use 'murdered' or 'executed', these are both incorrect and designed to cause an emotional reaction from the readers. Mrs x" There you go! No further questions. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Executed?Think lots of emotive language is used on here to fan the flames of division. I can understand people being upset by the terrible tragedies occurring in Gaza but use of such language does nothing to advance any debate on the issued. Mrs x Agreed and those who do I tend to ignore most of what they say because it's also most likely to be twisted 'truth'." Comments like yours do nothing either, just saying. Also I am surprised a poster is bringing up language after I have witnessed the most disgusting behaviour. Using a personal experience of another poster to mock them. Accusing other posters of using fake profiles. Now after the shift towards peace (most people in this country and around the world are now against the situation in Gaza) Whilst 24% still believe that the actions of Israel are justified a number which is getting smaller all the time as the actions of Israel comes to light. Those who cannot identify news speak and debate for change in the guise of unlawful and terrorist action against a population of already besieged people who have nothing and are forced to move to "safe areas" which are then bombed. Sorry but give your heads a wobble. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world."It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x"The big difference between you and I, is I don[ make excuses for war crimes! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x"With British and USA weapons, I am afraid, when it comes to arms we and the yanks are always front and centre. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x"IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!"Jews are Nazis? That's an interesting twist........ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........"Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.""Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors" I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors. Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill. Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts. When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
"You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community. European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East. This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago. "So much this. There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem. Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink. The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly. This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII... And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror. So... it continues... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago.
So much this.
There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem.
Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink.
The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly.
This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII...
And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror.
So... it continues..."Can I ask what you are basing your last statement on? Mrs x | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago.
So much this.
There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem.
Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink.
The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly.
This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII...
And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror.
So... it continues..."Zionist Apartheid regime plans new invasion after Biden outlines truce roadmap. Satanyahu says no permanent Gaza ceasefire. His comments, in a rare statement published on the Sabbath and only in English, came after United States President Joe Biden announced that Israel had proposed a three-phase deal for a ceasefire in Gaza in exchange for Hamas releasing hostages. French President Emmanuel Macron has backed Biden’s ceasefire proposal. Hamas says it regards President Joe Biden’s ceasefire proposal positively. The Problem isn’t Just Netanyahu, It’s Israeli Society. Israeli citizens support his destructive policies in Gaza and beyond. | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago.
So much this.
There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem.
Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink.
The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly.
This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII...
And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror.
So... it continues...Can I ask what you are basing your last statement on?
Mrs x"On fact. 27 million Soviets (8.7 million military and 27 million civilian died in WWII. Joseph Stalin led the Soviet Union from 1924 until 1953. In the 1930s, Stalin consolidated his power and established a Soviet dictatorship, which remained in place until the fall of the USSR in 1991. In his rise to power, Stalin slaughtered anyone who got in his way and millions of Russian civilians who didn’t, many of whom died during the Great Purge.Stalin forced Soviet agriculture into a collectivized state as he improved upon Soviet industrialization, taking lands and property from millions as millions more were killed or placed into forced labor camps. Many died from the horrible conditions of these camps or were executed as part of Soviet expansion policy, while millions more died as a result of a forced famine. And speaking of WWII deaths... 20.9 million perished in Nazi Germany through systematic extermination.That number includes approximately six million Jews, 7.8 million Soviet civilians and POWs, and hundreds of thousands of Serbians, Poles, Romani, and more. Of course, in addition to the Holocaust, Hitler’s operations across Europe and Africa resulted in the deaths of many more, including his military, which consisted almost entirely of the young and elderly by the end of WWII.Germany lost upward of 14.3 million military personnel and civilians through combat, and Hitler was responsible for every one of those deaths. And then there's Japan... Where do I get my facts? From books, articles and documentaries but if you want more information about the worst dictators in history read this: https://listverse.com/2024/03/12/top-10-of-historys-most-lethal-leaders/ | |||
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" This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII... And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror. So... it continues...Can I ask what you are basing your last statement on? Mrs x On fact. 27 million Soviets (8.7 million military and 27 million civilian died in WWII. " That is a very interesting perspective, however... Given that there were ~9.5 million Jews in Europe, then (using that logic and absolute numbers) it would be impossible for Jews to fare worse than Russians. Because even if 100% of Europe's Jews were annihilated, the lucky bastards would still be three times better of than the poor Russians! | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago.
So much this.
There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem.
Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink.
The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly.
This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII...
And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror.
So... it continues...Can I ask what you are basing your last statement on?
Mrs x
On fact. 27 million Soviets (8.7 million military and 27 million civilian died in WWII.
Joseph Stalin led the Soviet Union from 1924 until 1953. In the 1930s, Stalin consolidated his power and established a Soviet dictatorship, which remained in place until the fall of the USSR in 1991. In his rise to power, Stalin slaughtered anyone who got in his way and millions of Russian civilians who didn’t, many of whom died during the Great Purge.Stalin forced Soviet agriculture into a collectivized state as he improved upon Soviet industrialization, taking lands and property from millions as millions more were killed or placed into forced labor camps. Many died from the horrible conditions of these camps or were executed as part of Soviet expansion policy, while millions more died as a result of a forced famine.
And speaking of WWII deaths... 20.9 million perished in Nazi Germany through systematic extermination.That number includes approximately six million Jews, 7.8 million Soviet civilians and POWs, and hundreds of thousands of Serbians, Poles, Romani, and more. Of course, in addition to the Holocaust, Hitler’s operations across Europe and Africa resulted in the deaths of many more, including his military, which consisted almost entirely of the young and elderly by the end of WWII.Germany lost upward of 14.3 million military personnel and civilians through combat, and Hitler was responsible for every one of those deaths.
And then there's Japan...
Where do I get my facts? From books, articles and documentaries but if you want more information about the worst dictators in history read this:
https://listverse.com/2024/03/12/top-10-of-historys-most-lethal-leaders/
"But saying Russians had it worse, weren't Russian deaths due to the fact that they were combatants against the Nazis. Jews weren't combatants and ovrv6 million were killed 2 thirds of the Jewish population in Europe. Genocide is the eradication of a group or the removal of a group of people. Whilst 20 million is a tragic amount its not 2 thirds of their population which stood at ov 170 million prior to 1939. So I think the Jews had ot worse in the case of genocide. Mrs x | |||
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" You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East." Interesting. But you seem to contradict yourself: " This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago, [...] married European women who became Jewish. " No links to the Middle East? Migrated from Palestine? Make up your mind. Now, Israel is made up of many diverse sets of people, but two key groups of Jews: European (45%) and Middle Eastern/North African (55%). So your contention is that, while the (slim) majority of Jews in Israel carry a high degree of Judaean-linked DNA, a (slim) minority carry only about 50% Judaean-linked (combined maternal/paternal) DNA? After 2000 years in exile and through oppression, pogroms and genocide? And let's not forget that the mitochondrial ancestry appears Roman (Italian). Who colonised Judaea 2000 years ago and took thousands of Jews back to Rome as sl@ves? Oh yeah - ROMANS. So the Italian (Roman) DNA actually fits into history of the Jews and their expulsion from Israel pretty neatly. If, say, an Egyptian or Italian (Christian) woman moved to Gaza, converted to Islam and married a Palestinian, would her grandchildren be less deserving of recognition as Palestinian? If not, then applying a different logic to a nation in exile necessarily dooms that nation to oblivion. Finally, cherry picking a single study with the aim of discrediting any link between European Jews and Israel ("no links to Middle East", you erroneously said) brings your motivation, or at least you perspective, into question. There have been a multitude of studies that positively (and negatively) consider the links between Jews of various regions and Israel - a quick search on Wikipedia handily links a bunch of studies (including the one to which you referred) and even offers some measure of analysis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews | |||
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" Edit to shorten the stream. This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago. " ".............. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children" That statement isn't supported by historical records. Maybe take a look at which section of the community we're victims of the WW2 holocaust, I'm pretty sure it wasn't members of the armed forces and i'm pretty sure the victim numbers were significantly higher than the current conflict. This conflict is an armed conflict between the armed forces of a nation state and a terrorist army, who are financed and trained but countries who want to see the people of Israel wiped out. Look at the genetic make up of pretty much any nationality and you'll see a blend of people/places. The Israeli peoples belief that this area is their promised land tracks back to biblical times. Modern genetics may prove that belief flawed, but it doesn't trump their core belief. Religious doctrine is unfortunately at the heart of many conflicts.  | |||
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"Again and again we see people trying to argue Israel should not exist based on claim to the land. " It's actually an obsession with people who need to reconcile the statement in the Koran that the area is for the children of Israel. Disprove that Jews are the children of Israel and that inconvenient verse doesn't get in the way of removing them. It's why this particular line of thought is jumped on by Arab and Muslim groups and it's prevalent in the media and education in those countries. Until it was largely brought into question, those cultures same promoted the narrative of conversion by Khazars, and the occasional poster on here (with a very specific agenda) tries to bring it up: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars For some, it also fits into the narrative that Israel is a colonial project by white Europeans against brown Middle Eastern people. "These people don't belong in that place, based on blood and soil" isn't a statement unique to the far right... | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago.
So much this.
There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem.
Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink.
The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly.
This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII...
And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror.
So... it continues...Can I ask what you are basing your last statement on?
Mrs x
On fact. 27 million Soviets (8.7 million military and 27 million civilian died in WWII.
Joseph Stalin led the Soviet Union from 1924 until 1953. In the 1930s, Stalin consolidated his power and established a Soviet dictatorship, which remained in place until the fall of the USSR in 1991. In his rise to power, Stalin slaughtered anyone who got in his way and millions of Russian civilians who didn’t, many of whom died during the Great Purge.Stalin forced Soviet agriculture into a collectivized state as he improved upon Soviet industrialization, taking lands and property from millions as millions more were killed or placed into forced labor camps. Many died from the horrible conditions of these camps or were executed as part of Soviet expansion policy, while millions more died as a result of a forced famine.
And speaking of WWII deaths... 20.9 million perished in Nazi Germany through systematic extermination.That number includes approximately six million Jews, 7.8 million Soviet civilians and POWs, and hundreds of thousands of Serbians, Poles, Romani, and more. Of course, in addition to the Holocaust, Hitler’s operations across Europe and Africa resulted in the deaths of many more, including his military, which consisted almost entirely of the young and elderly by the end of WWII.Germany lost upward of 14.3 million military personnel and civilians through combat, and Hitler was responsible for every one of those deaths.
And then there's Japan...
Where do I get my facts? From books, articles and documentaries but if you want more information about the worst dictators in history read this:
https://listverse.com/2024/03/12/top-10-of-historys-most-lethal-leaders/
But saying Russians had it worse, weren't Russian deaths due to the fact that they were combatants against the Nazis.
Jews weren't combatants and ovrv6 million were killed 2 thirds of the Jewish population in Europe.
Genocide is the eradication of a group or the removal of a group of people. Whilst 20 million is a tragic amount its not 2 thirds of their population which stood at ov 170 million prior to 1939.
So I think the Jews had ot worse in the case of genocide. Mrs x"I don't know what's better or worse according to you. You seem to have a rather narrow view of humanity and global politics. Depends on your definition of genocide. Read the article. By the way, the idea for the concentration camps didn't come from the Nazis. It was invented in South Africa. And I'd argue that millions sent to waste away working to death in the Soviet gulags weren't much better off than the Jews. But quite aside from all this, genocides happen all the time... again.. read the article. What strikes me as interesting is the trio of Spain, Ireland and Norway declaring recognition of Palestine. If you know anything about Spanish history (and I know a lot) Franco (and Sálazar in Portugal) were ruthless. The atrocities committed in Spain, the sheer terror after La Guerra Civil... my parents lived through that. My Hungarian Jewish grandfather lived through that... he was supporting the losing side and as soon as Franco came to power, he burned all his ID documents and refused to have anything to do with the authorities... to the point where when my mother was born, he refused to register her birth and my grandmother had to do it after she was discharged from the hospital. Hitler famously described Franco as being frustrating and unreliable but Franco wasn't taking any chances and was playing the long game by not declaring anything or committing anything concrete with the Nazis. But Franco's wife was a notorious rapidly Catholic antisemite and my grandfather suffered because of this. I suspect that a lecture about pain, suffering, starvation or "who had what worse" is as unrealistic and as naïve as saying "which King was worse? Charles I or William of Orange?) I'm sure that there are Scotsmen and Irishmen who have issues with sectarian politics... even today. In Ireland's case, though they were technically neutral, going so far as to still call, to this day, WWII as "The Emergency", they did provide assistance to the West, particularly the US but things are never clear cut in Ireland... however, as a former colony oppressed by the the British who committed a form of genocide of the Irish and the ensuing atrocities of the Easter Rising by the Black and Tans and those horrid Orange marches (which by the way is what inspired the KKK in the US)... I can therefore understand An Taoiseach Harris siding with Palestine and holding the line against the genocide and wholesale slaughter of native Gazans. | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
Okay. I see what you're saying.
Still seems incompetent to me for the supposedly most technologically advanced army in the world.It's not even in the top ten most technologically advanced armies. Saudi Arabia ranks higher.
Mrs x
IDF (Israeli diaper force) are only good at making Tik tok videos, killing unarmed civilians, women, children and babies. IDF terrorists are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Nazi bastards!!
Jews are Nazis?
That's an interesting twist........
Zionism as it is manifested in Palestine today preaches very much the same doctrines as Hitler. Zionist policy in Palestine has many features similar to Nazi philosophy. The politics of Herrenvolk and Nazi idea of Lebensraum, is also very in evidence in the Zionist philosophy. the training of youth is very similar under both organizations that have designed this one and the Nazi one. Systematic killing and forced expulsion of Palestinians, man made famine and ongoing holocaust against unarmed civilians. Definitely this Israeli regime is like Nazis Germans in World War Two.
"Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of an indigenous people (which were subject to persecution and share a national identity through national consciousness), to the homeland of their ancestors"
I'm not wholly convinced the Nazi party were try to repatriate an indigenous people to the homeland of their ancestors.
Perhaps leaning a little towards expanding their borders, enforced poltical doctine, global domination and wiping out Jews, gypsies and the mentallly ill.
Oh, not forgetting medical experiments on those they incarcerated in death camps, looting from the millions of people they murdered in gas chambers, stealing works of art and hiding their ill gotten gains in Swiss bank accounts.
When you mentioned the H word you lost the argument.
You lost the arguments when you say ancestral home of their ancestors. You mean the European Jews who adopted the religion in 6th century and had no links to Middle East. A large percentage of the maternal ancestors of modern European Jews were European woman, especially Italians, who converted to Judaism during Roman Empire times, according to a report in Science Daily Oct. 8, 2013, of a research project using the new science of archaeogenetics to settle a long-standing controversy about the origin of Europe’s Jews. Analysis of a very large number of mitochondrial DNA samples (that trace maternal lines only) has shown that on the female lines are descended not from the Near East or from Khazaria in the North Caucasus; but from southern and western European females who married into the Jewish community.
European Jewish lineages were among the large quantity of publicly available mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East that entered the analysis. In a large majority of cases, their lineages are most closely related to those of southern and western Europe from many centuries ago. This suggests that, many Jewish men who migrated into Europe from Palestine around 2,000 years ago,( Islam been around only 1500 years so don’t blame local indigenous Palestinians living in occupied Palestian, most of them are converts to Islam from Christianity and Judaism) married European women who became Jewish. This seems to have happened first along the Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, and later — but probably to a lesser extent — in western and central Europe and North Africa. Thus, on the female line of descent, a large percentage of European Jews can trace part or most of their ancestry to local female converts to Judaism from southern and Western Europe not occupied Palestine in Middle East.
This holocaust is worst than the one in Second World War. It’s not a war of soldiers against soldiers. It’s a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. Systematic killing of Palestinians is going on from 1948 to this date, lootings and land grab from indigenous population started 75 years ago.
So much this.
There are Mizrahi Jews, Sefardis, Ashkenazis... it's the recent influx of former USSR Ashkenazi Jews that are causing the biggest problem.
Ireland, Norway and Spain now recognise Palestine. Portugal and Belgium are on the brink.
The only Western countries holding back are USA, UK, France and Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the position is in Canada... there's a LOT of debates going on, depending on which province. There are pro-Palestine protests held at McGill University but pro-Israel ones were held simultaneously nearby. It got ugly.
This isn't going away. Supporting a two-state solution is not the same as advocating for terrorism or ignoring the genocide of 6 million Jews during WWII...
And speaking of genocides... the Russians fared far worse in WWII by a long shot... and also during Stalin's war on terror.
So... it continues...Can I ask what you are basing your last statement on?
Mrs x
On fact. 27 million Soviets (8.7 million military and 27 million civilian died in WWII.
Joseph Stalin led the Soviet Union from 1924 until 1953. In the 1930s, Stalin consolidated his power and established a Soviet dictatorship, which remained in place until the fall of the USSR in 1991. In his rise to power, Stalin slaughtered anyone who got in his way and millions of Russian civilians who didn’t, many of whom died during the Great Purge.Stalin forced Soviet agriculture into a collectivized state as he improved upon Soviet industrialization, taking lands and property from millions as millions more were killed or placed into forced labor camps. Many died from the horrible conditions of these camps or were executed as part of Soviet expansion policy, while millions more died as a result of a forced famine.
And speaking of WWII deaths... 20.9 million perished in Nazi Germany through systematic extermination.That number includes approximately six million Jews, 7.8 million Soviet civilians and POWs, and hundreds of thousands of Serbians, Poles, Romani, and more. Of course, in addition to the Holocaust, Hitler’s operations across Europe and Africa resulted in the deaths of many more, including his military, which consisted almost entirely of the young and elderly by the end of WWII.Germany lost upward of 14.3 million military personnel and civilians through combat, and Hitler was responsible for every one of those deaths.
And then there's Japan...
Where do I get my facts? From books, articles and documentaries but if you want more information about the worst dictators in history read this:
https://listverse.com/2024/03/12/top-10-of-historys-most-lethal-leaders/
But saying Russians had it worse, weren't Russian deaths due to the fact that they were combatants against the Nazis.
Jews weren't combatants and ovrv6 million were killed 2 thirds of the Jewish population in Europe.
Genocide is the eradication of a group or the removal of a group of people. Whilst 20 million is a tragic amount its not 2 thirds of their population which stood at ov 170 million prior to 1939.
So I think the Jews had ot worse in the case of genocide. Mrs x
I don't know what's better or worse according to you. You seem to have a rather narrow view of humanity and global politics.
Depends on your definition of genocide. Read the article.
By the way, the idea for the concentration camps didn't come from the Nazis. It was invented in South Africa.
And I'd argue that millions sent to waste away working to death in the Soviet gulags weren't much better off than the Jews.
But quite aside from all this, genocides happen all the time... again.. read the article.
What strikes me as interesting is the trio of Spain, Ireland and Norway declaring recognition of Palestine. If you know anything about Spanish history (and I know a lot) Franco (and Sálazar in Portugal) were ruthless. The atrocities committed in Spain, the sheer terror after La Guerra Civil... my parents lived through that. My Hungarian Jewish grandfather lived through that... he was supporting the losing side and as soon as Franco came to power, he burned all his ID documents and refused to have anything to do with the authorities... to the point where when my mother was born, he refused to register her birth and my grandmother had to do it after she was discharged from the hospital.
Hitler famously described Franco as being frustrating and unreliable but Franco wasn't taking any chances and was playing the long game by not declaring anything or committing anything concrete with the Nazis.
But Franco's wife was a notorious rapidly Catholic antisemite and my grandfather suffered because of this.
I suspect that a lecture about pain, suffering, starvation or "who had what worse" is as unrealistic and as naïve as saying "which King was worse? Charles I or William of Orange?) I'm sure that there are Scotsmen and Irishmen who have issues with sectarian politics... even today.
In Ireland's case, though they were technically neutral, going so far as to still call, to this day, WWII as "The Emergency", they did provide assistance to the West, particularly the US but things are never clear cut in Ireland... however, as a former colony oppressed by the the British who committed a form of genocide of the Irish and the ensuing atrocities of the Easter Rising by the Black and Tans and those horrid Orange marches (which by the way is what inspired the KKK in the US)... I can therefore understand An Taoiseach Harris siding with Palestine and holding the line against the genocide and wholesale slaughter of native Gazans."I'm aware of what constituency a genocide. Every great loss of civilian life is tragic but the Jews were killed without being combatants in the main. They were rounded up and taken to a place that was designed for one purpose, The Final Solution. Nazis devised a plan to wipe Jews from the face of the earth, genocide in its truest form. As bad as Stalin was I'm not sure his goal was to annihilate the whole of the Russian people, only those he considered a threat or opposed him. The Nazis, however, would have continued until ever Jew was murdered. Not for opposing or threatening their regime but for holding certain religious beliefs. I think that constitutes a difference. The deliberate, planned nature of the Holocaust makes a difference here. And yes I'm aware that the British came up with concentration camps against the Boers, the first time they were used in history. But as tragic as the deaths here, again it is not comparable to the Nazis and the Holocaust. And all this to a group that has known persecution for thousands of years, I'd suggest that they've been the most persecuted race in history. Mrs x | |||
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"My ancestors left Africa some 160000 years ago. Let’s draw a line and we all have a right to return back to Africa and expel natives from their lands. " We are promised that land by Zeus. It’s written in holy book of “fuck you Zionists” | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison " Agree - I have been banging on about the bias reporting by the the BBC for some time - Tory chairman supporter it’s bias and not giving a free press status to such awful content above Yes war crimes - could not agree more !!!!!! | |||
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"My ancestors left Africa some 160000 years ago. Let’s draw a line and we all have a right to return back to Africa and expel natives from their lands. We are promised that land by Zeus. It’s written in holy book of “fuck you Zionists” "Time to grow up so-called “sex-guru”  | |||
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"My ancestors left Africa some 160000 years ago. Let’s draw a line and we all have a right to return back to Africa and expel natives from their lands. " Jews, however, were the victims of the Muslim colonialism that came from the Arabian Peninsula. There has also been an unbroken Jewish presence that has outlasted European and Arabic persecution. They didn't just leave completely and then stroll back on a whim. Also, Jerusalam itaelf has held a majority Jewish population since before the first Aliyah. Whether you like it or not, it is the only Jewish homeland, and they are just as indigenous to Israel as Maoris are to New Zealand. | |||
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"Please if you wish, look up The Atlantic Slav3 trade, you might change your mind as to who were the most persecuted race in history. And what affect this had on the lands of Africa, even in todays world." I'd say the Arab SIave trade was arguably worse - but there are no descendents to complaine now, due to the males all being castrated. | |||
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"Please if you wish, look up The Atlantic Slav3 trade, you might change your mind as to who were the most persecuted race in history. And what affect this had on the lands of Africa, even in todays world." I was going to say that to MrsX. You beat me to it. British, Dutch, Belgian, German colonialism... effects still felt today. Not to mention the millions of civilian deaths in Vietnam, the Korean war, Cambodia and civilian casualties of the Cold War... which is now back with Putin. But go on MrsX... cling to that narrow ideology. You're perfectly within your rights to do so... after all, trolling threads has been around since IRC. | |||
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"My ancestors left Africa some 160000 years ago. Let’s draw a line and we all have a right to return back to Africa and expel natives from their lands. Jews, however, were the victims of the Muslim colonialism that came from the Arabian Peninsula. False... many are recent converts. There's a difference between the Mizrahi, the Sefardi and the more recent Ashkenazi. And there's been quite a rift between all three. Also, stealing land from native Palestinians to build condos and kibbutzes is no way to treat people whose very presence predated the recent American, Russian and Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews. The Mizrahis are especially irked by their attitude. There has also been an unbroken Jewish presence that has outlasted European and Arabic persecution. They didn't just leave completely and then stroll back on a whim. Also, Jerusalam itaelf has held a majority Jewish population since before the first Aliyah. Whether you like it or not, it is the only Jewish homeland, and they are just as indigenous to Israel as Maoris are to New Zealand. " | |||
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"I can't be bothered to pick apart your poorly formatted quites, but you're wrong. The vast majority of Jews have genetic links back to ancient Canaan, to suggest some tribes are recent converts is buying into a conspiracy theory that's used to negate European Jewry. Also, no land was stoIen. Early Jewish refugees bought and irrigated and farmed their own land - they created their own settlements. Thw rest of the land was captured after Arabs started a war and got pushed back in a defensive move - captured is not the same as StoIe. At every point in recent history, Arabs attacked first. " Where is your grand theory of Arabs attacking first coming from? And where are you getting your sources from? The problem with Israel stemmed from a poorly executed British mandate and a Western-backed free-for-all that has gone on since 1948 because no one could have been bothered to protect the original inhabitants- both Palestinian or Mizrahi/Sefardi Jew. During the Cold War, the Soviets sent thousands of refusniks to Israel... I don't think they did this out of the kindness of their hearts and I question the morality of an invading Eastern European and American Jewry evicting land held by Palestinians for generations beyond count. When I was in college, a smiling representative from the American University of Jerusalem copped my mother's surname and rightly surmised my ethnicity and tried to get me to "spend a few years studying there, living in a kibbutz". That was 1988. How many of the Palestians who were abandoned by those who vowed to protected gradually lost their homeland to wealthy middle class American Jews opening up Western suburban style homes while rounding up the original residents at gunpoint and herding them into smaller and smaller areas? There's an excellent series on Netflix, starring Sasha Baron Cohen called The Spy which alludes to some of this. It's an age-old war between 2 Abrahamic religions in the desert but let's be clear... the Palestinians got the crappy end of the deal because of the mismanaged British mandate. | |||
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" Where is your grand theory of Arabs attacking first coming from? " 1920 Battle of Tel Hai 1920 Nebi Musa Riots 1921 Jaffa Riots The above was partly the reason for the partioning of the East Bank and creation of Transjordan as 'Arab Palestine' - part of Churchill's White Paper (now Jordan). Effectively a two-state solution wss in place at the start of the Mandate. But after that.... 1929 Western Wall Riots 1929 Hebron Massacre I could keep going, but there are a lot of historically verifiable incidents of anti-Jewish violence before the formal creation of Israel. | |||
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"And to be honest, I couldn't care less if Palestinians did get the crappier deal in Israel. There are over 20 Islamic countries in the Middle East, all of them made life unbearable for Jews, thus forcing hundreds of thousands of them to flee to Israel. The estimated land lost to these people is 4 times the size of Israel, and yet nobody has ever been offered any compensation for this loss. So, Palestinian Arabs can go cry a river of crocodile tears for as long as they like. They could have chosen peace a thousand times over." Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin. It is genocide, pure and simple and it's not just "the 20 Islamic countries" advocating for the protection of innocent Palestinian women and children being blown to bits. I don't call burning babies and IDF forces gloating on social media about killing civilians inciting "crocodile tears". In 2011, the State of Palestine was admitted into UNESCO; in 2012, after it was accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly with the votes of 138 member states of the United Nations, the PA began to officially use the name "State of Palestine" for all purposes. 143 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine, including Slovakia, Ukraine, Hungary, Poland, Georgia, Belarus, Bosnia-Hergegovina and Cyprus. Not to mention most of South America and the Far East. Israel has refused to accept the 1967 borders, which Israeli military experts have argued are strategically indefensible. | |||
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" If you're trying to divert the argument that it's only 34,999 or some such. Crack on. It's not relevant to the point I made. Not at all, just reports are overexagerated, recently in rafah and the hospital are the most egregious. All figures of civilian deaths are reported by hamas and taken as gospel." They are cooberated by all the humanitarian aid agencies and in previous engagements hamas figures have been subsequently correct. | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin " if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. " It is genocide, pure and simple " Nope. "and it's not just "the 20 Islamic countries" advocating for the protection of innocent Palestinian women and children being blown to bits. " They don't care though - they didn't absorb the dispossessed Arabs from Mandatory Palestine because they could use them as political pawns. "I don't call burning babies and IDF forces gloating on social media about killing civilians inciting "crocodile tears". " What do you expect a proportionate response to a massacre should be? Y'know, that massacre where Hamas nutjobs phoned their mums to boast about killing Jews. Besides, the recent incidents were the result of Hamas military equipment exploding in a refugee zone. "Israel has refused to accept the 1967 borders, which Israeli military experts have argued are strategically indefensible " That's because the 'borders' are the ceasefire line from 1948 and the annexation by Jordan and Egypt - Jordan didn't exactly treat the Jews very well either. | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin. " Just to be clear, it's okay for one to consider people "animals" when you feel that they treat other people as... animals? (quite a fair viewpoint, of course) Vermin: wild animals that are believed to be harmful to crops, farm animals, or game, or which carry disease, e.g. rodents. | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. and it's not just "the 20 Islamic countries" advocating for the protection of innocent Palestinian women and children being blown to bits. They don't care though - they didn't absorb the dispossessed Arabs from Mandatory Palestine because they could use them as political pawns. I don't call burning babies and IDF forces gloating on social media about killing civilians inciting "crocodile tears". What do you expect a proportionate response to a massacre should be? Y'know, that massacre where Hamas nutjobs phoned their mums to boast about killing Jews. Besides, the recent incidents were the result of Hamas military equipment exploding in a refugee zone. Israel has refused to accept the 1967 borders, which Israeli military experts have argued are strategically indefensible That's because the 'borders' are the ceasefire line from 1948 and the annexation by Jordan and Egypt - Jordan didn't exactly treat the Jews very well either." When the IDF instructed the population to move to a safe zone, then they bombed that safe zone, they stated that they bombed the target with small munitions so it couldn't cause such devastation and it must of been munitions that Hamas had stored. now this small munitions is made up of an explosive named AXF757 American made and given to the IDF. AXF757 is like how can I give an example if I use sugar in my tea two spoonfuls I will have sweet tea, but if I want to use another sweetener like honey I can use less honey but my tea is sweeter. So AXF757 is like a concentration which is smaller but more powerful so the 22 kilograms of AXF757 is equal to 87 kilograms of the usual explosives the IDF has been previously using to bomb the population in their safe zones. So when AXF757 explodes it explodes to the effect of an 87 kilo blast causing mass devastation and set the tents alight burning to death innocent women and children and life changing injuries for those who survive. So to use this type of bomb in an area of densely populated people cannot be targeted and they could not say they kept civilians in mind when using such a weapon. I write this as it is stated above that it was Hamas munitions that exploded and caused the deaths and devastation caused. Which has been proven a lie due to the types of bombs used. The rest of what you say I cannot comment on. | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. " Palestinians who were displaced from the southern city of Khan Younis to Rafah, along the border with Egypt, have returned to their homes to find most of them destroyed. Palestinian health officials in the Gaza Strip said Israeli strikes killed at least 11 people overnight into Tuesday, including a family of three in the built-up Bureij refugee camp and eight police officers. A spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense said Tuesday that first responders have recovered the bodies of 360 people, mostly women and children, killed in the northern refugee camp of Jabaliya during a recent three-week Israeli offensive there. The ongoing Israeli strikes and ground offensives across Gaza come as a cease-fire proposal, announced by U.S. President Joe Biden, has placed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a crossroads. The proposal offers the possibility of ending Israel’s war against Hamas, returning scores of hostages held by the militant group and quieting fighting on the northern border with Lebanon. Although Biden said the proposal was Israeli, the Israeli leadership has appeared to distance itself from the plan, vowing to keep conducting military operations against Hamas until the group is destroyed. Israeli bombardments and ground operations in Gaza have killed more than 36,000 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians. Israel’s expanding offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has largely cut off the flow of food, medicine and other supplies to Palestinians facing widespread hunger. Source: AP News, June 4, 2024. Narges Mohammadi, the imprisoned Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner, says in a statement that “images of children burning in refugee tents in Rafah starkly depict the decline of humanity in our world”. “To achieve long-lasting peace, this war must end immediately through a permanent ceasefire, the release of hostages and prisoners, the recognition of a two-state solution, and adherence to international law, including the rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, and United Nations bodies,” said the rights activist, who is currently held in Evin Prison in the Iranian capital, Tehran. “This is a moment to demand respect for law and human rights norms, to recognise the need to sever ties with warmongering and interventionist countries, and to eliminate extremist and fundamentalist forces that, if they gain power, will hold their people hostage.” Source: Al-Jazeera (2 hours ago) Why are Israeli soldiers sharing snuff videos from their genocide in Gaza? Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza in October, Israeli soldiers have been posting what can only be described as snuff videos on social media platforms. In the videos, soldiers can be seen – often gleefully committing war crimes against Palestinians. In one video, an Israeli soldier dressed in a dinosaur costume loads artillery shells into a tank and dances as shells are fired in the direction of Gaza. In another video, a soldier is filmed dedicating an explosion to his two-year-old daughter for her birthday. Seconds later, a Palestinian residential building behind him is blown up. Source: Al-Jazeera So.... this isn't genocide? Atrocities committed by Netanyahu's IDF? What would you call it then? I call it mass murder. I call it a war crimes. I call Netanyahu a genocidal maniac intent on wiping out the entire Palestinian civilisation off the face of the earth... using US/UK backed weapons. I call it despicable. | |||
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"Dwarfed by 35,000 civilians murdered by IDF and 2 million made homeless. USA and UK still supporting these war crimes. When is Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant being sent to prison Approx 116 innocent civilians executed per Hamas gunman. They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas. How do you do the maths on that? Are you giving a ratio of gunmen killed in Rafah offensive to the approximate total number of casualties since October? It was just an example. I don't know how many gunmen have been killed. The point is, there's many many times the number of civilians killed to every gunman. You cannot seriously be discussing the importance of a ratio (116-1, which is ~35000/300), then dismiss the importance of ratios or mathematics altogether. You are probably off by a factor of at least 20. That is directly material to the point you're trying to make, which is that the ratio is stupendously high. If you look at global statistics for civilian casualties in urban warfare, then apply more accurate numbers, your conclusion "they're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas" is seriously jeopardised. This doesn't necessarily justify the action or minimise any suffering, not detract from the definite horror of civilian casualties, but come on, don't be disingenuous. I agree with the last part. Like I mentioned. If it's only 100 innocent civilians being executed for every gunman. It's still obscene. A couple of months ago, IDF reported 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k (not including the more recent 300 from the recent Rafah offensive), but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k at that point in time dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level, and nowhere near the 100 per gunman to which you most recently revised down. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific, especially recent civilian deaths that Israel claims are mistakes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm Great, 9 civilians executed for every gunman. Obscene. Um... You also went to the Diane Abbot school of mathematics?
9 to 1 was your figure. Not mine.
Please direct the childish insult at yourself.
"The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9" - apologies, your comment "obscene" must have been directed at urban warfare in general, then? The ratio posited in the case of Gaza was significantly lower, but you are free to dispute this.
The issue isn't how obscene the deaths are (and they are obscene). It's that you put out an obscene ratio (116:1) to conclude "They're either incompetent, or lying about only targeting Hamas". When in fact the actual ratio demonstrates that they're actually in line with general urban warfare ratios. They might well be incompetent it lying, but the numbers don't tell that story.
These deaths are not solely due to urban warfare
45,000 bombs dropped on densely populated civilian towns and cities
Gaza Strip one of the most densely populated places on the planet, with 6,507 people in every square kilometre. Hard not to miss any civilians with those 2000 pound bombs.
Not saying I agree with Israels tactics but who am I to say how they should respond to being attacked.
Hamas shouldn't be hiding behind its own population. They want these casualties.
Mrs x"The IDF and those the control them don’t care about the civilians that get hurt they won’t revenge for what Hamas did to their people. (Which btw I believe was wrong) Netanyahu is a war criminal. Gaza Is in a ghetto. That irony is not lost on me. The Zionist settler movement is eyeing the land as their leibensraum. And before anyone says it, I’m not antisemitic unfortunately the Hamas leaders gave the IDF the excuse they were looking forward to raise the Gaza to the ground. The Israeli aim is to ethnically cleanse the Israeli state of Palestinians. European Jews were planted in Palestine to salve the consciences of the anti-Semitic pre-war and post war politicians who refused to allow Jews to escape to the UK and USA. It’s fucked up and children are dying. Hamas obviously a death cult. They have the same to be of contempt for the population as do Netanyahu and his cronies. | |||
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"And you do not care for the deaths of the Palestinian people, the old, babies, those with chronic conditions, the destruction of infrastructure and more. Hamas was beyond wrong in what they did. Netanyahu’s government and security services were too arrogant to acknowledge the possibility or heed the warnings about the ned. Netanyahu is a war criminal. " There is a Facebook page called Gaza Daily. If you scroll back to October 7th, they posted a photo of Palestinians celebrating their incursion into Israel. These were not all soldiers - there are very few innocent people in Gaza. | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. Palestinians who were displaced from the southern city of Khan Younis to Rafah, along the border with Egypt, have returned to their homes to find most of them destroyed. Palestinian health officials in the Gaza Strip said Israeli strikes killed at least 11 people overnight into Tuesday, including a family of three in the built-up Bureij refugee camp and eight police officers. A spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense said Tuesday that first responders have recovered the bodies of 360 people, mostly women and children, killed in the northern refugee camp of Jabaliya during a recent three-week Israeli offensive there. The ongoing Israeli strikes and ground offensives across Gaza come as a cease-fire proposal, announced by U.S. President Joe Biden, has placed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a crossroads. The proposal offers the possibility of ending Israel’s war against Hamas, returning scores of hostages held by the militant group and quieting fighting on the northern border with Lebanon. Although Biden said the proposal was Israeli, the Israeli leadership has appeared to distance itself from the plan, vowing to keep conducting military operations against Hamas until the group is destroyed. Israeli bombardments and ground operations in Gaza have killed more than 36,000 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians. Israel’s expanding offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has largely cut off the flow of food, medicine and other supplies to Palestinians facing widespread hunger. Source: AP News, June 4, 2024. Narges Mohammadi, the imprisoned Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner, says in a statement that “images of children burning in refugee tents in Rafah starkly depict the decline of humanity in our world”. “To achieve long-lasting peace, this war must end immediately through a permanent ceasefire, the release of hostages and prisoners, the recognition of a two-state solution, and adherence to international law, including the rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, and United Nations bodies,” said the rights activist, who is currently held in Evin Prison in the Iranian capital, Tehran. “This is a moment to demand respect for law and human rights norms, to recognise the need to sever ties with warmongering and interventionist countries, and to eliminate extremist and fundamentalist forces that, if they gain power, will hold their people hostage.” Source: Al-Jazeera (2 hours ago) Why are Israeli soldiers sharing snuff videos from their genocide in Gaza? Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza in October, Israeli soldiers have been posting what can only be described as snuff videos on social media platforms. In the videos, soldiers can be seen – often gleefully committing war crimes against Palestinians. In one video, an Israeli soldier dressed in a dinosaur costume loads artillery shells into a tank and dances as shells are fired in the direction of Gaza. In another video, a soldier is filmed dedicating an explosion to his two-year-old daughter for her birthday. Seconds later, a Palestinian residential building behind him is blown up. Source: Al-Jazeera So.... this isn't genocide? Atrocities committed by Netanyahu's IDF? What would you call it then? I call it mass murder. I call it a war crimes. I call Netanyahu a genocidal maniac intent on wiping out the entire Palestinian civilisation off the face of the earth... using US/UK backed weapons. I call it despicable. " So according to your argument about Netanyahu wanting to '...wip[e] out the entire Palestinian civilisation of the face of the earth'. Does that mean that once the conflict is over in Gaza,will he charge the IDF to turn inwards and attack the 2 million Palestinian Israeli citizens living peacefully in Israel?, Mrs x | |||
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"Zionism is a cancer to this planet. Fuck Israel "Not sure you express how you feel, what are you trying to say? Mrs x | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. Palestinians who were displaced from the southern city of Khan Younis to Rafah, along the border with Egypt, have returned to their homes to find most of them destroyed. Palestinian health officials in the Gaza Strip said Israeli strikes killed at least 11 people overnight into Tuesday, including a family of three in the built-up Bureij refugee camp and eight police officers. A spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense said Tuesday that first responders have recovered the bodies of 360 people, mostly women and children, killed in the northern refugee camp of Jabaliya during a recent three-week Israeli offensive there. The ongoing Israeli strikes and ground offensives across Gaza come as a cease-fire proposal, announced by U.S. President Joe Biden, has placed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a crossroads. The proposal offers the possibility of ending Israel’s war against Hamas, returning scores of hostages held by the militant group and quieting fighting on the northern border with Lebanon. Although Biden said the proposal was Israeli, the Israeli leadership has appeared to distance itself from the plan, vowing to keep conducting military operations against Hamas until the group is destroyed. Israeli bombardments and ground operations in Gaza have killed more than 36,000 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians. Israel’s expanding offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has largely cut off the flow of food, medicine and other supplies to Palestinians facing widespread hunger. Source: AP News, June 4, 2024. Narges Mohammadi, the imprisoned Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner, says in a statement that “images of children burning in refugee tents in Rafah starkly depict the decline of humanity in our world”. “To achieve long-lasting peace, this war must end immediately through a permanent ceasefire, the release of hostages and prisoners, the recognition of a two-state solution, and adherence to international law, including the rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, and United Nations bodies,” said the rights activist, who is currently held in Evin Prison in the Iranian capital, Tehran. “This is a moment to demand respect for law and human rights norms, to recognise the need to sever ties with warmongering and interventionist countries, and to eliminate extremist and fundamentalist forces that, if they gain power, will hold their people hostage.” Source: Al-Jazeera (2 hours ago) Why are Israeli soldiers sharing snuff videos from their genocide in Gaza? Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza in October, Israeli soldiers have been posting what can only be described as snuff videos on social media platforms. In the videos, soldiers can be seen – often gleefully committing war crimes against Palestinians. In one video, an Israeli soldier dressed in a dinosaur costume loads artillery shells into a tank and dances as shells are fired in the direction of Gaza. In another video, a soldier is filmed dedicating an explosion to his two-year-old daughter for her birthday. Seconds later, a Palestinian residential building behind him is blown up. Source: Al-Jazeera So.... this isn't genocide? Atrocities committed by Netanyahu's IDF? What would you call it then? I call it mass murder. I call it a war crimes. I call Netanyahu a genocidal maniac intent on wiping out the entire Palestinian civilisation off the face of the earth... using US/UK backed weapons. I call it despicable. So according to your argument about Netanyahu wanting to '...wip[e] out the entire Palestinian civilisation of the face of the earth'. Does that mean that once the conflict is over in Gaza,will he charge the IDF to turn inwards and attack the 2 million Palestinian Israeli citizens living peacefully in Israel?, Mrs x" I am a farmer and I own 300 livestock, I cull half of the livestock for any reason. How long would it take for the livestock remaining to reproduce so that there was 300 livestock again? Say I culled most of the males or put most of the males in another field. How long would it take for the livestock to become 300 under their reproductive terms? Think about it and then look at how these people are being killed. How long would it take to reproduce until the population was the same before the 7th. The conclusion has to be a type of genocide minimising a population so it is very difficult to repopulate. Maybe this type of genocide is not covered by law at the moment so they we cannot say it is a genocide in Leagle terms. But from what I am seeing if this carries on the people of Gaza will cease to exist due to not being able to reproduce. | |||
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"Zionism is a cancer to this planet. Fuck Israel "Antiemitism is on the rise in Israel. Zionist official brutally attacks protesters in Tel Aviv. No one is safe under this apartheid regime. Rabbi Yisroel Feldman: “All lands should be returned to the Palestinian people” As Jews, “We will be safer under the Palestinian government” Jews can never establish a state on earth, the Torah forbids this. But the zionists came and declared war on the Torah and God and established an irreligious zionist state in the holy land, contrary to the Torah. We want all the lands seized by the Zionites to be returned to the Palestinian people.” | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. Palestinians who were displaced from the southern city of Khan Younis to Rafah, along the border with Egypt, have returned to their homes to find most of them destroyed. Palestinian health officials in the Gaza Strip said Israeli strikes killed at least 11 people overnight into Tuesday, including a family of three in the built-up Bureij refugee camp and eight police officers. A spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense said Tuesday that first responders have recovered the bodies of 360 people, mostly women and children, killed in the northern refugee camp of Jabaliya during a recent three-week Israeli offensive there. The ongoing Israeli strikes and ground offensives across Gaza come as a cease-fire proposal, announced by U.S. President Joe Biden, has placed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a crossroads. The proposal offers the possibility of ending Israel’s war against Hamas, returning scores of hostages held by the militant group and quieting fighting on the northern border with Lebanon. Although Biden said the proposal was Israeli, the Israeli leadership has appeared to distance itself from the plan, vowing to keep conducting military operations against Hamas until the group is destroyed. Israeli bombardments and ground operations in Gaza have killed more than 36,000 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians. Israel’s expanding offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has largely cut off the flow of food, medicine and other supplies to Palestinians facing widespread hunger. Source: AP News, June 4, 2024. Narges Mohammadi, the imprisoned Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner, says in a statement that “images of children burning in refugee tents in Rafah starkly depict the decline of humanity in our world”. “To achieve long-lasting peace, this war must end immediately through a permanent ceasefire, the release of hostages and prisoners, the recognition of a two-state solution, and adherence to international law, including the rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, and United Nations bodies,” said the rights activist, who is currently held in Evin Prison in the Iranian capital, Tehran. “This is a moment to demand respect for law and human rights norms, to recognise the need to sever ties with warmongering and interventionist countries, and to eliminate extremist and fundamentalist forces that, if they gain power, will hold their people hostage.” Source: Al-Jazeera (2 hours ago) Why are Israeli soldiers sharing snuff videos from their genocide in Gaza? Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza in October, Israeli soldiers have been posting what can only be described as snuff videos on social media platforms. In the videos, soldiers can be seen – often gleefully committing war crimes against Palestinians. In one video, an Israeli soldier dressed in a dinosaur costume loads artillery shells into a tank and dances as shells are fired in the direction of Gaza. In another video, a soldier is filmed dedicating an explosion to his two-year-old daughter for her birthday. Seconds later, a Palestinian residential building behind him is blown up. Source: Al-Jazeera So.... this isn't genocide? Atrocities committed by Netanyahu's IDF? What would you call it then? I call it mass murder. I call it a war crimes. I call Netanyahu a genocidal maniac intent on wiping out the entire Palestinian civilisation off the face of the earth... using US/UK backed weapons. I call it despicable. So according to your argument about Netanyahu wanting to '...wip[e] out the entire Palestinian civilisation of the face of the earth'. Does that mean that once the conflict is over in Gaza,will he charge the IDF to turn inwards and attack the 2 million Palestinian Israeli citizens living peacefully in Israel?, Mrs x" That's always been his plan. He's a hardliner | |||
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"Perhaps some Israeli apologists/ Zionist ethenusiasts et all .. could explain how Isreal is trying to avoid civilian casualties, and also the ICC wanting arrest warrants.. The Israeli defence minister (wanted for war crimes) said: “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” Or the other war crimes suspect Netenyahu: "There are no civilians in Gaza" " | |||
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"Zionism is a cancer to this planet. Fuck Israel
Antiemitism is on the rise in Israel. Zionist official brutally attacks protesters in Tel Aviv. No one is safe under this apartheid regime. Rabbi Yisroel Feldman: “All lands should be returned to the Palestinian people” As Jews, “We will be safer under the Palestinian government” Jews can never establish a state on earth, the Torah forbids this. But the zionists came and declared war on the Torah and God and established an irreligious zionist state in the holy land, contrary to the Torah.
We want all the lands seized by the Zionites to be returned to the Palestinian people.”"Anti-sectarian propaganda. There are peaceful Jews .. And then there's Netanyahu and the IDF. Remember the scene in Bruno? | |||
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"Zionism is a cancer to this planet. Fuck Israel "Wouldn't go that far. A two-state solution. Enough already. | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. Palestinians who were displaced from the southern city of Khan Younis to Rafah, along the border with Egypt, have returned to their homes to find most of them destroyed. Palestinian health officials in the Gaza Strip said Israeli strikes killed at least 11 people overnight into Tuesday, including a family of three in the built-up Bureij refugee camp and eight police officers. A spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense said Tuesday that first responders have recovered the bodies of 360 people, mostly women and children, killed in the northern refugee camp of Jabaliya during a recent three-week Israeli offensive there. The ongoing Israeli strikes and ground offensives across Gaza come as a cease-fire proposal, announced by U.S. President Joe Biden, has placed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a crossroads. The proposal offers the possibility of ending Israel’s war against Hamas, returning scores of hostages held by the militant group and quieting fighting on the northern border with Lebanon. Although Biden said the proposal was Israeli, the Israeli leadership has appeared to distance itself from the plan, vowing to keep conducting military operations against Hamas until the group is destroyed. Israeli bombardments and ground operations in Gaza have killed more than 36,000 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians. Israel’s expanding offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has largely cut off the flow of food, medicine and other supplies to Palestinians facing widespread hunger. Source: AP News, June 4, 2024. Narges Mohammadi, the imprisoned Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner, says in a statement that “images of children burning in refugee tents in Rafah starkly depict the decline of humanity in our world”. “To achieve long-lasting peace, this war must end immediately through a permanent ceasefire, the release of hostages and prisoners, the recognition of a two-state solution, and adherence to international law, including the rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, and United Nations bodies,” said the rights activist, who is currently held in Evin Prison in the Iranian capital, Tehran. “This is a moment to demand respect for law and human rights norms, to recognise the need to sever ties with warmongering and interventionist countries, and to eliminate extremist and fundamentalist forces that, if they gain power, will hold their people hostage.” Source: Al-Jazeera (2 hours ago) Why are Israeli soldiers sharing snuff videos from their genocide in Gaza? Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza in October, Israeli soldiers have been posting what can only be described as snuff videos on social media platforms. In the videos, soldiers can be seen – often gleefully committing war crimes against Palestinians. In one video, an Israeli soldier dressed in a dinosaur costume loads artillery shells into a tank and dances as shells are fired in the direction of Gaza. In another video, a soldier is filmed dedicating an explosion to his two-year-old daughter for her birthday. Seconds later, a Palestinian residential building behind him is blown up. Source: Al-Jazeera So.... this isn't genocide? Atrocities committed by Netanyahu's IDF? What would you call it then? I call it mass murder. I call it a war crimes. I call Netanyahu a genocidal maniac intent on wiping out the entire Palestinian civilisation off the face of the earth... using US/UK backed weapons. I call it despicable. So according to your argument about Netanyahu wanting to '...wip[e] out the entire Palestinian civilisation of the face of the earth'. Does that mean that once the conflict is over in Gaza,will he charge the IDF to turn inwards and attack the 2 million Palestinian Israeli citizens living peacefully in Israel?, Mrs x I am a farmer and I own 300 livestock, I cull half of the livestock for any reason. How long would it take for the livestock remaining to reproduce so that there was 300 livestock again? Say I culled most of the males or put most of the males in another field. How long would it take for the livestock to become 300 under their reproductive terms? Think about it and then look at how these people are being killed. How long would it take to reproduce until the population was the same before the 7th. The conclusion has to be a type of genocide minimising a population so it is very difficult to repopulate. Maybe this type of genocide is not covered by law at the moment so they we cannot say it is a genocide in Leagle terms. But from what I am seeing if this carries on the people of Gaza will cease to exist due to not being able to reproduce." I'm glad you used this analogy. Under the policies and subsequent effects of successive British governments, between 1700 and 1840, Ireland experienced rapid population growth, rising from less than three million in 1700 to over eight million by the 1841 census. In 1851, as the Great Famine was ending, the population of Ireland had dropped to 6.5 million people. The Famine and the resulting Irish diaspora had a dramatic effect on population; by 1891, Ireland's population had slipped under five million and by 1931, it had dropped to just over four million. It stayed around this level until the 1960s, when the population began to rise again. It's not yet recovered. | |||
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"Even Biden who supplied the bombs is now saying the war is being continued for political gain. Israel has dropped 70,000 tons of bombs on Gaza Strip since last October, exceeding World War II bombings in Dresden, Hamburg, London combined, according to rights monitor eur-med. (4.6.24) How does Biden sleep at night " Hah! It's my understanding POTUS rarely sleeps. Too busy in the war room. Plus he's 81. Not easy to sleep without prescription meds at that age. Now First Lady Jill Biden is different. She's no Melania Trump. She taught English and reading in high schools for thirteen years and instructed adolescents with emotional disabilities at a psychiatric hospital. That's a First Lady with a decent democratic agenda and possibly a good influence on POTUS, much more so than the Trump Mafia. Plus she's 13 years younger than him and she looks fantastic. Mr. President is a lucky guy. Trump is going to lose. No one has ever tried challenging a sitting President. Oh he'll whine and moan and bleat on about stealing elections while Ivanka and Melania run for cover but that POS who polluted the Oval Office for four long years is DONE. AMEN! | |||
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" Then you're just as heartless as the animals in Israel who treat Palestinians like vermin if they wanted better treatment they wouldn't be blowing themselves up on buses, throwing molotovs at soldiers or rap'ng their way through the local kibbutz. It is genocide, pure and simple Nope. Palestinians who were displaced from the southern city of Khan Younis to Rafah, along the border with Egypt, have returned to their homes to find most of them destroyed. Palestinian health officials in the Gaza Strip said Israeli strikes killed at least 11 people overnight into Tuesday, including a family of three in the built-up Bureij refugee camp and eight police officers. A spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense said Tuesday that first responders have recovered the bodies of 360 people, mostly women and children, killed in the northern refugee camp of Jabaliya during a recent three-week Israeli offensive there. The ongoing Israeli strikes and ground offensives across Gaza come as a cease-fire proposal, announced by U.S. President Joe Biden, has placed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a crossroads. The proposal offers the possibility of ending Israel’s war against Hamas, returning scores of hostages held by the militant group and quieting fighting on the northern border with Lebanon. Although Biden said the proposal was Israeli, the Israeli leadership has appeared to distance itself from the plan, vowing to keep conducting military operations against Hamas until the group is destroyed. Israeli bombardments and ground operations in Gaza have killed more than 36,000 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians. Israel’s expanding offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has largely cut off the flow of food, medicine and other supplies to Palestinians facing widespread hunger. Source: AP News, June 4, 2024. Narges Mohammadi, the imprisoned Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner, says in a statement that “images of children burning in refugee tents in Rafah starkly depict the decline of humanity in our world”. “To achieve long-lasting peace, this war must end immediately through a permanent ceasefire, the release of hostages and prisoners, the recognition of a two-state solution, and adherence to international law, including the rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, and United Nations bodies,” said the rights activist, who is currently held in Evin Prison in the Iranian capital, Tehran. “This is a moment to demand respect for law and human rights norms, to recognise the need to sever ties with warmongering and interventionist countries, and to eliminate extremist and fundamentalist forces that, if they gain power, will hold their people hostage.” Source: Al-Jazeera (2 hours ago) Why are Israeli soldiers sharing snuff videos from their genocide in Gaza? Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza in October, Israeli soldiers have been posting what can only be described as snuff videos on social media platforms. In the videos, soldiers can be seen – often gleefully committing war crimes against Palestinians. In one video, an Israeli soldier dressed in a dinosaur costume loads artillery shells into a tank and dances as shells are fired in the direction of Gaza. In another video, a soldier is filmed dedicating an explosion to his two-year-old daughter for her birthday. Seconds later, a Palestinian residential building behind him is blown up. Source: Al-Jazeera So.... this isn't genocide? Atrocities committed by Netanyahu's IDF? What would you call it then? I call it mass murder. I call it a war crimes. I call Netanyahu a genocidal maniac intent on wiping out the entire Palestinian civilisation off the face of the earth... using US/UK backed weapons. I call it despicable. So according to your argument about Netanyahu wanting to '...wip[e] out the entire Palestinian civilisation of the face of the earth'. Does that mean that once the conflict is over in Gaza,will he charge the IDF to turn inwards and attack the 2 million Palestinian Israeli citizens living peacefully in Israel?, Mrs x That's always been his plan. He's a hardliner" So Civil War then? Mrs x | |||
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"The Israeli government is behind a large-scale campaign against primarily aimed at Black lawmakers and young progressives in the United States, Canada, Uk and European countries. Israel Secretly Targeted American Lawmakers With Gaza War Influence Campaign. In an attempt to sway global public opinion on the war in Gaza, fake accounts and sites spread pro-Israel and Islamophobic content. The operation was orchestrated by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry and run by a political campaigning firm. Haaretz" ? Mrs x | |||
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"The Israeli government is behind a large-scale campaign against primarily aimed at Black lawmakers and young progressives in the United States, Canada, Uk and European countries. Israel Secretly Targeted American Lawmakers With Gaza War Influence Campaign. In an attempt to sway global public opinion on the war in Gaza, fake accounts and sites spread pro-Israel and Islamophobic content. The operation was orchestrated by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry and run by a political campaigning firm. Haaretz ? Mrs x" Hi Mrs X, Could you explain the following statements by the Israeli defence minister Gallant ? He said: “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” Or the other war crimes suspect Netenyahu: "There are no civilians in Gaza". And how those statements fits into avoiding starvation and minimising civilian casualties and other attrocities? | |||
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"The Israeli government is behind a large-scale campaign against primarily aimed at Black lawmakers and young progressives in the United States, Canada, Uk and European countries. Israel Secretly Targeted American Lawmakers With Gaza War Influence Campaign. In an attempt to sway global public opinion on the war in Gaza, fake accounts and sites spread pro-Israel and Islamophobic content. The operation was orchestrated by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry and run by a political campaigning firm. Haaretz ? Mrs x Hi Mrs X, Could you explain the following statements by the Israeli defence minister Gallant ? He said: “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” Or the other war crimes suspect Netenyahu: "There are no civilians in Gaza". And how those statements fits into avoiding starvation and minimising civilian casualties and other attrocities? " No, Mrs x | |||
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"Disturbing videos emerging of IDF soldiers(terrorists) strip children in Gaza raid. Palestinian children in Gaza describe how they were stripped and sexually humiliated by IDF during a raid on the town of Al-Qarara, in the central part of the besieged Strip. War criminals "I am not saying this is or isn’t true but you post these sort of things with no links or evidence to support it. You could literally type anything! | |||
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"Zionism is a cancer to this planet. Fuck Israel
Wouldn't go that far.
A two-state solution. Enough already."The two-state solution was in place by 1922 with the creation of Transjordan as 'Arab Palestine'. This was to address the problems caused by rioting in 1920. Prior to that, what we now call Jordan was part of Palestine. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine." The Hamastinian propaganda machine is at full crank. It doesn't surprise me that stupid people fall for it. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine." And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all." Crazy isn't it. Baboons, the lot of us. I suppose you must be included in that seeing as you're here | |||
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"And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO?" I'm pretty sure that Israel isn't in the North Atlantic. Which kinda proves my point.  | |||
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"Disturbing videos emerging of IDF soldiers(terrorists) strip children in Gaza raid. Palestinian children in Gaza describe how they were stripped and sexually humiliated by IDF during a raid on the town of Al-Qarara, in the central part of the besieged Strip. War criminals
I am not saying this is or isn’t true but you post these sort of things with no links or evidence to support it. You could literally type anything!"According to one regular poster “Zionist child R4pe apologists” here, its children’s parents fault( from another thread) and they are khamas babies after all. Don’t be lazy and do your own homework. I won’t be posting any links, it’s not allowed. Here is another one for you. About 90% of children under two years of age in Gaza are consuming two or fewer food groups, with most children only getting grains or milk, meeting the definition of ‘severe food poverty. UNICEF | |||
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"And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO?I'm pretty sure that Israel isn't in the North Atlantic. Which kinda proves my point. "We know it’s a shit hole country in middle east | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. The Hamastinian propaganda machine is at full crank. It doesn't surprise me that stupid people fall for it. "Here we go again genius lol  | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all. Crazy isn't it. Baboons, the lot of us. I suppose you must be included in that seeing as you're here "Only human animals I can think of is IDF terrorists. IDF “soldiers” are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Losers  | |||
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"Disturbing videos emerging of IDF soldiers(terrorists) strip children in Gaza raid. Palestinian children in Gaza describe how they were stripped and sexually humiliated by IDF during a raid on the town of Al-Qarara, in the central part of the besieged Strip. War criminals
I am not saying this is or isn’t true but you post these sort of things with no links or evidence to support it. You could literally type anything!
According to one regular poster “Zionist child R4pe apologists” here, its children’s parents fault( from another thread) and they are khamas babies after all.
Don’t be lazy and do your own homework. I won’t be posting any links, it’s not allowed. Here is another one for you. About 90% of children under two years of age in Gaza are consuming two or fewer food groups, with most children only getting grains or milk, meeting the definition of ‘severe food poverty. UNICEF
"So you won’t corroborate your OP I was replying to. Ok then must be true | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all. Crazy isn't it. Baboons, the lot of us. I suppose you must be included in that seeing as you're here
Only human animals I can think of is IDF terrorists. IDF “soldiers” are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Losers "You have an issue with the IDF calling Palestinains animals but are happy to call the IDF soldiers animals? Both are fucking human beings, try treating them as such. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all." Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x | |||
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" Don’t be lazy and do your own homework. I won’t be posting any links, it’s not allowed. " Fab Forum Rules: Links to other sites We have restrictions on where you can link to because otherwise people end up posting spam or links to places that host malware/spyware and it's bad for our users. You can link to: Any well recognised news site (bbc, times, telegraph, sun, notw, cnn and all the rest) Youtube Lovehoney Wikipedia ———————————————————— If you can't post the link, it must be an interesting source of political news! | |||
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" Don’t be lazy and do your own homework. I won’t be posting any links, it’s not allowed. Fab Forum Rules: Links to other sites We have restrictions on where you can link to because otherwise people end up posting spam or links to places that host malware/spyware and it's bad for our users. You can link to: Any well recognised news site (bbc, times, telegraph, sun, notw, cnn and all the rest) Youtube Lovehoney Wikipedia ———————————————————— If you can't post the link, it must be an interesting source of political news!" Normally X, Mrs x | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all. Crazy isn't it. Baboons, the lot of us. I suppose you must be included in that seeing as you're here
Only human animals I can think of is IDF terrorists. IDF “soldiers” are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Losers
You have an issue with the IDF calling Palestinains animals but are happy to call the IDF soldiers animals?
Both are fucking human beings, try treating them as such. "So you admit IDF calls Palestinians animals. 
I take my words back. Shouldn’t be insulting animals. Chimpanzee are highly intelligent species unlike IDF terrorists. IDF terrorists are worst than human feces | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all. Crazy isn't it. Baboons, the lot of us. I suppose you must be included in that seeing as you're here
Only human animals I can think of is IDF terrorists. IDF “soldiers” are like handing a machine gun to chimpanzee, attacks everyone and everything indiscriminately and irresponsibly. Losers
You have an issue with the IDF calling Palestinains animals but are happy to call the IDF soldiers animals?
Both are fucking human beings, try treating them as such.
So you admit IDF calls Palestinians animals.
I take my words back. Shouldn’t be insulting animals. Chimpanzee are highly intelligent species unlike IDF terrorists. IDF terrorists are worst than human feces "I don't admit anything. I'm using your words to draw comparison. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x" On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame." Even daily telegraph and CNN reported separate incident back in December when IDF sexually humiliated and stripped children but zionists unconditionally support the most morally bankrupt army. They are sick genocide supporting child R4pe apologists. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/26/palestinians-stripped-to-underwear-by-idf-in-gaza-sweep/ Also https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/27/middleeast/gaza-children-detained-idf-video/index.html | |||
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" As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. " They really are not though. They are part funded by Islamist Qatar and supportive of similar regimes - even more moderate Arab countries accuse them of biased reporting. | |||
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"Reported a United Nations school has just been bombed 37 bodies so far. Benny the child slayer at it again. Bombs provided by USA. " Yes a missile strike on a school. Cue an Israeli spokesperson gravely intoning it was all a 'regrettable mistake', and worse still Israel's apologists informing us the hapless schoolkids had it coming. | |||
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"Reported a United Nations school has just been bombed 37 bodies so far. Benny the child slayer at it again. Bombs provided by USA. " Do you know where the weapons and munitions used by Hamas are sourced from? | |||
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" Yes a missile strike on a school. Cue an Israeli spokesperson gravely intoning it was all a 'regrettable mistake', and worse still Israel's apologists informing us the hapless schoolkids had it coming. " It was not a mistake. It was directly and deliberately targeted. The IDF claims that it was actively being used as a military site and that militants, including a specific significant individual, were killed. What changed significantly after October 7 is that Israel is more willing to disregard humanitarian considerations (innocent civilians) in pursuit of its military objectives. A year ago, a strike like this would have been called off due to the certainty of civilian deaths. This is what's wrong about using human shields. Hamas knew this and used human shields, which were very effective (until October 7). Their calculus had changed. Although the deaths of civilians is indeed martyrdom and generates anti-Israel press, their (Hamas) lives are now now endangered than before. Irrespective of whether there is or isn't unjustifiable Israeli culpability in this scenario, it's mind boggling that a group instigates, then refuses to end, a war that kills so many of their own people. The only effective weapon they have against Israel is the deaths of innocents weighed against the threat of future terrorism and violence. The only way to win this war is for them to make their citizens such victims that the world stops it for them. Their only hope is to survive long enough, whilst terrorising innocent Gazans and using them as unwilling cannon fodder, to outlast political resolve. Or they could surrender. But they won't. Anyone who finds that noble is pathetic. The greatest guarantee for the safety of Palestinians is the eradication of anti Israel groups, who callously disregard the lives of their people. | |||
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" Yes a missile strike on a school. Cue an Israeli spokesperson gravely intoning it was all a 'regrettable mistake', and worse still Israel's apologists informing us the hapless schoolkids had it coming. It was not a mistake. It was directly and deliberately targeted. The IDF claims that it was actively being used as a military site and that militants, including a specific significant individual, were killed. What changed significantly after October 7 is that Israel is more willing to disregard humanitarian considerations (innocent civilians) in pursuit of its military objectives. A year ago, a strike like this would have been called off due to the certainty of civilian deaths. This is what's wrong about using human shields. Hamas knew this and used human shields, which were very effective (until October 7). Their calculus had changed. Although the deaths of civilians is indeed martyrdom and generates anti-Israel press, their (Hamas) lives are now now endangered than before. Irrespective of whether there is or isn't unjustifiable Israeli culpability in this scenario, it's mind boggling that a group instigates, then refuses to end, a war that kills so many of their own people. The only effective weapon they have against Israel is the deaths of innocents weighed against the threat of future terrorism and violence. The only way to win this war is for them to make their citizens such victims that the world stops it for them. Their only hope is to survive long enough, whilst terrorising innocent Gazans and using them as unwilling cannon fodder, to outlast political resolve. Or they could surrender. But they won't. Anyone who finds that noble is pathetic. The greatest guarantee for the safety of Palestinians is the eradication of anti Israel groups, who callously disregard the lives of their people." What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. | |||
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" Irrespective of whether there is or isn't unjustifiable Israeli culpability in this scenario, it's mind boggling that a group instigates, then refuses to end, a war that kills so many of their own people. The only effective weapon they have against Israel is the deaths of innocents weighed against the threat of future terrorism and violence. The only way to win this war is for them to make their citizens such victims that the world stops it for them. Their only hope is to survive long enough, whilst terrorising innocent Gazans and using them as unwilling cannon fodder, to outlast political resolve. Or they could surrender. But they won't. Anyone who finds that noble is pathetic. The greatest guarantee for the safety of Palestinians is the eradication of anti Israel groups, who callously disregard the lives of their people. What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. " Let's say, for the purpose of argument, that Israel is completely in the wrong. It's still pretty counter-productive for Hamas to continue as they are. They are not only not helping their people, but they're actively endangering them and making their lives worse. Especially if you truly believe that Israel is full of bloodthirsty parasites. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame." Why are you so personally insulting, have I ever done that to you? Of course you can disagree with anything I say but to throw personal slurs just allows the other to come back at you. I won't do this as I have more respect for myself and other females on here. To criticise another female due to anything personal, age, figure, looks, intellect etc, seems bitchy to me. It's really brave for any woman to come on here and it's hard enough with the shit we get on here from some, not all, guys without girls personally attacking each other. Mrs x | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame.Why are you so personally insulting, have I ever done that to you? Of course you can disagree with anything I say but to throw personal slurs just allows the other to come back at you. I won't do this as I have more respect for myself and other females on here. To criticise another female due to anything personal, age, figure, looks, intellect etc, seems bitchy to me. It's really brave for any woman to come on here and it's hard enough with the shit we get on here from some, not all, guys without girls personally attacking each other. Mrs x" What? Age, figure, looks etc Stop playing victim card here. Real victims are innocent children of Gaza who are brutally murdered by IDF terrorists. | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame." Just seen this. Childish name calling of another poster and ad hominem attacks are very poor form on here. Be better! | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame.Why are you so personally insulting, have I ever done that to you? Of course you can disagree with anything I say but to throw personal slurs just allows the other to come back at you. I won't do this as I have more respect for myself and other females on here. To criticise another female due to anything personal, age, figure, looks, intellect etc, seems bitchy to me. It's really brave for any woman to come on here and it's hard enough with the shit we get on here from some, not all, guys without girls personally attacking each other. Mrs x What? Age, figure, looks etc Stop playing victim card here. Real victims are innocent children of Gaza who are brutally murdered by IDF terrorists. "And you can stop too! | |||
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The only problem is, are there enough virgins to go round? Judging by the look of the knuckle dragging skanks on the pro-pally marches, I very doubt it.
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame.Why are you so personally insulting, have I ever done that to you? Of course you can disagree with anything I say but to throw personal slurs just allows the other to come back at you. I won't do this as I have more respect for myself and other females on here. To criticise another female due to anything personal, age, figure, looks, intellect etc, seems bitchy to me. It's really brave for any woman to come on here and it's hard enough with the shit we get on here from some, not all, guys without girls personally attacking each other. Mrs x" Aren’t you the same woman who was blaming parents of killed babies on other threads! | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame.Why are you so personally insulting, have I ever done that to you? Of course you can disagree with anything I say but to throw personal slurs just allows the other to come back at you. I won't do this as I have more respect for myself and other females on here. To criticise another female due to anything personal, age, figure, looks, intellect etc, seems bitchy to me. It's really brave for any woman to come on here and it's hard enough with the shit we get on here from some, not all, guys without girls personally attacking each other. Mrs x Aren’t you the same woman who was blaming parents of killed babies on other threads!" I said parents who knew their kids faced harm would remove them from harm. Call me wrong but that's the primary job of a parent. That's different from saying parents killed their own kids like you're implying. Mrs x | |||
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"When I read through threads like this, I'm sometimes shocked at the poor levels of education people have of current events. Poor historical knowledge, cherry picking incidents without considering context, inventing evidence, using statements from terrorist organisations and simply copying and pasting unverified claims as facts. You lot make as much sense as Queers for Palestine. And I suppose you're speaking on behalf of NATO? This is the net. Trolls like MrsX et al just like to stir it up. Plus any high-school baboon with a cracked iPhone will post their tuppence. It's the Politics forum after all.Why am I a troll? And am I now a high school baboon with an iPhone. Bit rude isn't it. Mrs x On the contrary, Madam. It's insulting to baboons. My sincerest apologies to them. As for posting links... well.. there are different sources of info. Al-Jazeera may not be British but the news crew are credible. Just because the posts are distasteful to some, doesn't make it any less true. Neither is the Easter Uprising, the Black-and-Tans, the murder of innocent Irish Civilians at Croke Park and other British colonial barbarism. You may disagree but the truth will out... always, Madame.Why are you so personally insulting, have I ever done that to you? Of course you can disagree with anything I say but to throw personal slurs just allows the other to come back at you. I won't do this as I have more respect for myself and other females on here. To criticise another female due to anything personal, age, figure, looks, intellect etc, seems bitchy to me. It's really brave for any woman to come on here and it's hard enough with the shit we get on here from some, not all, guys without girls personally attacking each other. Mrs x Aren’t you the same woman who was blaming parents of killed babies on other threads!" Can’t help yourself can you. Feeling increasingly like bullying and you are repeatedly misrepresenting what others actually say. Be better! | |||
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" What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. " That land was within the borders of the British Mandate, but conquered and annexed by Jordan for nearly twenty years. During that time they burnt synagogues and expelled the Jews, including Jews of the Old Yishuv. The proper name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - and Judea is where Jews got their name. Regardless of what the international 'community' says, it's Jewish land and was always Jewish land. | |||
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" What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. That land was within the borders of the British Mandate, but conquered and annexed by Jordan for nearly twenty years. During that time they burnt synagogues and expelled the Jews, including Jews of the Old Yishuv. The proper name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - and Judea is where Jews got their name. Regardless of what the international 'community' says, it's Jewish land and was always Jewish land." Yes, but where do you the draw the line on ancient land? How about USA, Canada, Australia ...........? | |||
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" Yes, but where do you the draw the line on ancient land? How about USA, Canada, Australia ...........?" Indigenous people should have a greater say in what happens to and on their ancestral land. Sovereignty should be restored, so long as it does not encroach on anyone else's sovereignty, but with priority to the natives. That was the original plan for Jews, but the Arab colonisers took offence and became violent - even though the Zionist purchases were legal and in relatively unused and unpopulated regions. There's a movement called 'land back' that fights to restore indigenous land and sovereign rights in colonised land, and many indigenous people are strong supporters of Israel for the very same reasons. | |||
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" Irrespective of whether there is or isn't unjustifiable Israeli culpability in this scenario, it's mind boggling that a group instigates, then refuses to end, a war that kills so many of their own people. The only effective weapon they have against Israel is the deaths of innocents weighed against the threat of future terrorism and violence. The only way to win this war is for them to make their citizens such victims that the world stops it for them. Their only hope is to survive long enough, whilst terrorising innocent Gazans and using them as unwilling cannon fodder, to outlast political resolve. Or they could surrender. But they won't. Anyone who finds that noble is pathetic. The greatest guarantee for the safety of Palestinians is the eradication of anti Israel groups, who callously disregard the lives of their people. What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. Let's say, for the purpose of argument, that Israel is completely in the wrong. It's still pretty counter-productive for Hamas to continue as they are. They are not only not helping their people, but they're actively endangering them and making their lives worse. Especially if you truly believe that Israel is full of bloodthirsty parasites." I agree. There are Israeli Jews (and Christians) who are completely aghast at Netanyahu. This would never have happened in 2007. I remember Teapacks representing them in Eurovision semi-finals and wrote one of the best political songs ever.. killer tune, sung in English, French and Hebrew. They never made it to the finals sadly. Then that fatass baby trolley Netta wins with that pathetic song "Toy". What really irks me, besides her sugary pop pap, was her boasting about killing Palestinians when she was in the IDF. Disgusting.... And now Eurovision is poisoned because they sponsor the show and rig the votes. OK... it's not the same as bombing a school but it shows just how ridiculous and desperate the Netanyahu PR machine works. | |||
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" What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. That land was within the borders of the British Mandate, but conquered and annexed by Jordan for nearly twenty years. During that time they burnt synagogues and expelled the Jews, including Jews of the Old Yishuv. The proper name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - and Judea is where Jews got their name. Regardless of what the international 'community' says, it's Jewish land and was always Jewish land. Yes, but where do you the draw the line on ancient land? How about USA, Canada, Australia ...........?" I can't speak for Australia or the USA and a lot of of tribes cross borders. During the 1999 Oka crisis, "Mohawks" (I think their tribal name are the Kanienkehaka), from upstate New York crossed the borders to support their brethren in Chateauguay because the local mayor wanted to build a golf course or something. In the Canadian Constitution, there's an Indian Act with many amendments. Status "Indians" who choose to stay on their reservations don't pay taxes, get free electricity and power and total control over their lands. Not all the indigenous tribes are so lucky. The Cree in the Hudson prevailed when competing against the neighbouring Inuit when Hydro-Quebec wanted to build a new dam. The Cree got the best deal, the Innu were evicted of their traditional lands for ice-fishing and seal hunting. The Indian Act is obviously sexist. An Indian man can marry a non-native Canadian citizen and she can avail of all her rights as a "new status Indian". But those rights are taken away from female status Indians who marry Canadians. And if we're talking about right of return for Palestinians, they've been longer there and I find it difficult to understand how anyone can justify American and Russian Jews who had never stepped foot anywhere near Israel being allowed to evict Palestinian farmers from their homes so that they can build American style condos and Starbucks and golf courses. That's complete BS. | |||
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" What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. That land was within the borders of the British Mandate, but conquered and annexed by Jordan for nearly twenty years. During that time they burnt synagogues and expelled the Jews, including Jews of the Old Yishuv. The proper name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - and Judea is where Jews got their name. Regardless of what the international 'community' says, it's Jewish land and was always Jewish land. Yes, but where do you the draw the line on ancient land? How about USA, Canada, Australia ...........? I can't speak for Australia or the USA and a lot of of tribes cross borders. During the 1999 Oka crisis, "Mohawks" (I think their tribal name are the Kanienkehaka), from upstate New York crossed the borders to support their brethren in Chateauguay because the local mayor wanted to build a golf course or something. In the Canadian Constitution, there's an Indian Act with many amendments. Status "Indians" who choose to stay on their reservations don't pay taxes, get free electricity and power and total control over their lands. Not all the indigenous tribes are so lucky. The Cree in the Hudson prevailed when competing against the neighbouring Inuit when Hydro-Quebec wanted to build a new dam. The Cree got the best deal, the Innu were evicted of their traditional lands for ice-fishing and seal hunting. The Indian Act is obviously sexist. An Indian man can marry a non-native Canadian citizen and she can avail of all her rights as a "new status Indian". But those rights are taken away from female status Indians who marry Canadians. And if we're talking about right of return for Palestinians, they've been longer there and I find it difficult to understand how anyone can justify American and Russian Jews who had never stepped foot anywhere near Israel being allowed to evict Palestinian farmers from their homes so that they can build American style condos and Starbucks and golf courses. That's complete BS." This is very encouraging. I'm Welsh, descended from ancient Britons, and look forward to the Saxons being expelled from Albion. Failing that, I'll settle for some compensation and a parcel of land. | |||
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"Israel didn't steal any land, they just reclaimed what was rightfully and historically theirs. The areas they reclaimed were used as rocket-launching sites by the Hamastinians and were no more than uncultivated scrublands. Israeli settlers turned them into productive farms." Exactly this - and the land that Jews purchased in the 1800s was barely inhabited, malaria ridden swamp. The problems started when certain politically influential Muslims started to incite hatred amongst the local population. They generated fear in spite of the benefits that Jews were starting to bring in. | |||
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" This is very encouraging. I'm Welsh, descended from ancient Britons, and look forward to the Saxons being expelled from Albion. Failing that, I'll settle for some compensation and a parcel of land." So long as you're true to your roots, celebrating your ancient Briton traditions and customs, while dispossessed and treated like a second class citizen in your current home, then that shouldn't be an issue | |||
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" What about the theft of land on West Bank taken by force from Palestinians and for illegal Israeli settlements. This is not recent news and pre dates 7 October by 50 years. That land was within the borders of the British Mandate, but conquered and annexed by Jordan for nearly twenty years. During that time they burnt synagogues and expelled the Jews, including Jews of the Old Yishuv. The proper name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - and Judea is where Jews got their name. Regardless of what the international 'community' says, it's Jewish land and was always Jewish land. Yes, but where do you the draw the line on ancient land? How about USA, Canada, Australia ...........? I can't speak for Australia or the USA and a lot of of tribes cross borders. During the 1999 Oka crisis, "Mohawks" (I think their tribal name are the Kanienkehaka), from upstate New York crossed the borders to support their brethren in Chateauguay because the local mayor wanted to build a golf course or something. In the Canadian Constitution, there's an Indian Act with many amendments. Status "Indians" who choose to stay on their reservations don't pay taxes, get free electricity and power and total control over their lands. Not all the indigenous tribes are so lucky. The Cree in the Hudson prevailed when competing against the neighbouring Inuit when Hydro-Quebec wanted to build a new dam. The Cree got the best deal, the Innu were evicted of their traditional lands for ice-fishing and seal hunting. The Indian Act is obviously sexist. An Indian man can marry a non-native Canadian citizen and she can avail of all her rights as a "new status Indian". But those rights are taken away from female status Indians who marry Canadians. And if we're talking about right of return for Palestinians, they've been longer there and I find it difficult to understand how anyone can justify American and Russian Jews who had never stepped foot anywhere near Israel being allowed to evict Palestinian farmers from their homes so that they can build American style condos and Starbucks and golf courses. That's complete BS." Wanted to pick up on the 'sexism'. It sounds very much like the muslim religion but you've avoided that. Why? | |||
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" And if we're talking about right of return for Palestinians, they've been longer there " They're Arabs - and as very few of them were alive in 1948 and they identify more with Arabian culture and religion, maybe their right of return should be to the Arabian Peninsula. | |||
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" And if we're talking about right of return for Palestinians, they've been longer there They're Arabs - and as very few of them were alive in 1948 and they identify more with Arabian culture and religion, maybe their right of return should be to the Arabian Peninsula. "The thing is, in ancient times these lands were roamed by nomadic tribes. Nobody 'owned' the land or had a God-given right to it. By what heavenly mandate do Jews have to rule over other religions and peoples? | |||
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" And if we're talking about right of return for Palestinians, they've been longer there They're Arabs - and as very few of them were alive in 1948 and they identify more with Arabian culture and religion, maybe their right of return should be to the Arabian Peninsula.
The thing is, in ancient times these lands were roamed by nomadic tribes. Nobody 'owned' the land or had a God-given right to it. By what heavenly mandate do Jews have to rule over other religions and peoples?"They lived there for thousands of years before being forcibly evicted by the Romans. It wasn't a country again until 1948 and the creation of Israel. Palestine was and never has been a country. From the expulsion of the Jews until 1948 it was a province in various empires. So of all the people I would think there claim is greater and that Jews would consider it their ancestral homeland. No wonder they wanted to return. Mrs x | |||
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" The thing is, in ancient times these lands were roamed by nomadic tribes. Nobody 'owned' the land or had a God-given right to it. By what heavenly mandate do Jews have to rule over other religions and peoples?" Jewish nomadic tribes mostly - and the right is that this is the only homeland they have -whereas Muslims and Christians have several. However, it needs to be there, if not for ancient reasons, then for reasons of safety from the World's oldest prejudice. | |||
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" The thing is, in ancient times these lands were roamed by nomadic tribes. Nobody 'owned' the land or had a God-given right to it. By what heavenly mandate do Jews have to rule over other religions and peoples? Jewish nomadic tribes mostly - and the right is that this is the only homeland they have -whereas Muslims and Christians have several. However, it needs to be there, if not for ancient reasons, then for reasons of safety from the World's oldest prejudice. " Yes possibly, but then what do you do with the Arabs who occupied that land for millenia whilst the Jews were absent? How about herding them behind barbed wire fences and treating them as second class citizens? Not going to work is it? And it it doesn't. | |||
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