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Triple lock plus
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By *atEvolutionCouple 33 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND |
If by 'they' you mean the conservatives. They always have. Bearing in mind, they started.
The debate really should focus on whether the triple-lock is worth it and affordable. If the conservatives dropped it that would be a blow to pensioners.
If Labour stopped it, that would be a blow to Labour and pensioners. |
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"Now they're trying to court pensioners.
Most likely the "plus" will include a hidden "minus""
The minus was Personal Tax Thresholds were frozen in 2021. This increased all taxpayers income tax and with high inflation the effect has cost each of us £200 a year and rising.
Cunt's problem is that state pensions are likely to exceed the frozen tax threshold, and also that his National Insurance reductions don't benefit non-workers including pensioners.
So although the Tories present this as a plus, it's merely a mitigation of the tax increase due to frozen allowances, which he could have done in the last budget anyway.
Personally I would like to see much more help for younger people and families. I call my generation the greedy generation as we as benefitted at the expense of our youth. |
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It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold. |
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By *I Two OP Couple 33 weeks ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold. "
Yeah but it keeps hundreds of civil servants in a job working it all out |
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"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold.
Yeah but it keeps hundreds of civil servants in a job working it all out "
Very true. Also gives people another stick to bash old people with |
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Triple lock is a great idea, but flawed in practice. Rather than guaranteeing an increase on the best metric YoY, it should be based on the best overall, cumulative metric since a single point in time. In it's current form, the triple lock will cause pensions to outpace every other benefit and become unaffordable. |
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"Triple lock is a great idea, but flawed in practice. Rather than guaranteeing an increase on the best metric YoY, it should be based on the best overall, cumulative metric since a single point in time. In it's current form, the triple lock will cause pensions to outpace every other benefit and become unaffordable."
It's a big problem for any government. Traditionally older people are more likely to vote and of you start messing with their income it doesn't go down well |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold. "
You are only taxed for your state pension if it takes you over your single person’s tax allowance… it’s the first thing that comes out of it!
Single person’s tax allowance is 12850… the maximum state pension under the new rules for most people is £11500….. for single people anyone getting pension credit is not earning over 11500
The poorest people are not paying any tax….
The triple lock is one of those weird things where it doesn’t need to be “triple”
The 3 factors were inflation, average earnings, or 2.5%…. Whichever was highest!
But the 2.5% was just an arbitrary figure made up
It could just be a double lock… inflation and earnings…. Pre COVID where inflation and earnings were literally going up by less than 1% pensioners were still getting 2.5%
I don’t believe pensioners should be any worse off than anyone else, but I don’t see why they should be getting greater benefit |
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"Triple lock is a great idea, but flawed in practice. Rather than guaranteeing an increase on the best metric YoY, it should be based on the best overall, cumulative metric since a single point in time. In it's current form, the triple lock will cause pensions to outpace every other benefit and become unaffordable."
The UK has the worst state pension in the developed world. How come they are affordable? |
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"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold.
You are only taxed for your state pension if it takes you over your single person’s tax allowance… it’s the first thing that comes out of it!
Single person’s tax allowance is 12850… the maximum state pension under the new rules for most people is £11500….. for single people anyone getting pension credit is not earning over 11500
The poorest people are not paying any tax….
"
Yes. I understood that this is to reassure people that if the state pension increases to a level where it takes you into the lower tax bracket (given that as I understand it the tax thresholds are currently frozen) it won't be eligible for tax. |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold.
You are only taxed for your state pension if it takes you over your single person’s tax allowance… it’s the first thing that comes out of it!
Single person’s tax allowance is 12850… the maximum state pension under the new rules for most people is £11500….. for single people anyone getting pension credit is not earning over 11500
The poorest people are not paying any tax….
Yes. I understood that this is to reassure people that if the state pension increases to a level where it takes you into the lower tax bracket (given that as I understand it the tax thresholds are currently frozen) it won't be eligible for tax. "
Well then we are concentrating on the wrong thing…
it isn’t the state pension going into tax bands that is the issue as such… it’s the sneaky tax increase by not increasing the tax allowances each year that are catching more and more people
If both go up by inflation for example.. they would never interact…. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple 33 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND |
"What we need from Labour is their Plan to Protect Pensioners.
I haven't heard of one yet? Anyone else?"
Ah, It seems they have committed to protecting the Triple Lock today. It must just be the Plus they don't like, lol |
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"
it isn’t the state pension going into tax bands that is the issue as such… it’s the sneaky tax increase by not increasing the tax allowances each year that are catching more and more people
If both go up by inflation for example.. they would never interact…."
And for high earners
The personal no allowance ceases at £100k earnings threshold, with 45% income tax rate starting at £125,000
£100,000 - £125,140 band earnings are taxed at 60% |
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By *atEvolutionCouple 33 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND |
"What we need from Labour is their Plan to Protect Pensioners.
I haven't heard of one yet? Anyone else?
Ah, It seems they have committed to protecting the Triple Lock today. It must just be the Plus they don't like, lol"
But NOT committed to the Manifesto itself yet! |
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"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold.
You are only taxed for your state pension if it takes you over your single person’s tax allowance… it’s the first thing that comes out of it!
Single person’s tax allowance is 12850… the maximum state pension under the new rules for most people is £11500….. for single people anyone getting pension credit is not earning over 11500
The poorest people are not paying any tax….
Yes. I understood that this is to reassure people that if the state pension increases to a level where it takes you into the lower tax bracket (given that as I understand it the tax thresholds are currently frozen) it won't be eligible for tax.
Well then we are concentrating on the wrong thing…
it isn’t the state pension going into tax bands that is the issue as such… it’s the sneaky tax increase by not increasing the tax allowances each year that are catching more and more people
If both go up by inflation for example.. they would never interact…."
Exactly! ! |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"Worth remembering that the Triple Lock was suspended for one year during covid. So the 8.5 was a little bit of catch-up too."
they suspended the use of earnings because the way it is measured ctrated an artificial amd unintended distortion. There was still a 2.5 increase.
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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I don't understand why we undo inflation creep for pensioners and not anyone else. Especially when pensiond will probably increase faster than earningd and so, in real terms pensioners are better off versus someone who was bringing in the same amount via work.
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By *ripfillMan 33 weeks ago
Paris, New York, Hong Kong and Havant |
"It seems counter productive to tax the state pension. If that is someone's only source of income they will probably be entitled to pension credit. It seems daft to take it away with one hand and give it with the other.
If you planned for your old age by paying in to a private pension most of your working life they already tax that if it takes you over the threshold. "
Correct … and now out of the EU you could have become a citizen not Portugal and not been taxed on your personal pension
Pensioners have in effect been taxed twice and the threshold from this corrupt government has lowered it
Pensions in the UK. I think ( please do not quote me )
Are the worst per head in Europe
Plus it’s likely to go up to 67 !
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"I don't understand why we undo inflation creep for pensioners and not anyone else. Especially when pensiond will probably increase faster than earningd and so, in real terms pensioners are better off versus someone who was bringing in the same amount via work.
"
Because anyone on the state pension alone is assumed to have no other way of earning more or otherwise improving their situation. Since the government is, essentially, completely responsible for their well-being, it needs to be indexed.
Moreover, the pension was (often) earned though contributions. Any pension plan is likely to include indexing.
Finally, it takes the issue out of constant review cycles that largely wastes time. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"I don't understand why we undo inflation creep for pensioners and not anyone else. Especially when pensiond will probably increase faster than earningd and so, in real terms pensioners are better off versus someone who was bringing in the same amount via work.
Because anyone on the state pension alone is assumed to have no other way of earning more or otherwise improving their situation. Since the government is, essentially, completely responsible for their well-being, it needs to be indexed.
Moreover, the pension was (often) earned though contributions. Any pension plan is likely to include indexing.
Finally, it takes the issue out of constant review cycles that largely wastes time."
why are they assumed to have no other way of improving income ? Many will have private pensions and/or the opportunity to equity release.
So not all are entirely dependent on state pension.
Id need to sit down and work the numbers thru, but the triple lock works on their favour and will outpace the inflation creep of personal allowance.
Many low earners have limited ability to increase their earnings. |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I don't understand why we undo inflation creep for pensioners and not anyone else. Especially when pensiond will probably increase faster than earningd and so, in real terms pensioners are better off versus someone who was bringing in the same amount via work.
"
3 words…
Because pensioners vote!
(The argument the tories are going to use is that pensioners are not gaining anything in the national insurance cuts that working aged people are)
But as in the past… both the state pensions and the single person tax allowances both go up by inflation year on year… there is no need for the”plus” |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Id need to sit down and work the numbers thru, but the triple lock works on their favour and will outpace the inflation creep of personal allowance.
Many low earners have limited ability to increase their earnings. "
It does in 2 different scenarios:
1) if both inflation and average increase in earnings were both lower than the arbitrary 2.5% figure set….. which was basic the case for the last 4-5 years ish pre COVID
2) if the average wage increase is higher than the average rate on inflation … inflation was always the one used for tax allowances and benefits |
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"I don't understand why we undo inflation creep for pensioners and not anyone else. Especially when pensiond will probably increase faster than earningd and so, in real terms pensioners are better off versus someone who was bringing in the same amount via work.
3 words…
Because pensioners vote!
(The argument the tories are going to use is that pensioners are not gaining anything in the national insurance cuts that working aged people are)
But as in the past… both the state pensions and the single person tax allowances both go up by inflation year on year… there is no need for the”plus” "
Isn't the single persons tax allowance frozen until tax year 27/28? |
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"This is a terrible move by Tories, obviously aimed at attracting the older voters. But I think it will work at this point.
It's not working with these older voters.
"
That was a typo. I was going to say it won't work at this point 
Elders will know that increasing pension payments come from other welfare systems like healthcare and schools. |
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"This is a great thing, I hope to retire one day.
Living out your final years with out having to worry about money is the least the government can do after (most) of a lifetime of work and taxes."
The problem here is ageing population. The government can give you all the money you want. But if there aren't enough people to do the work after you retire, the money won't be worth much because everything will be more expensive by then. |
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"What we need from Labour is their Plan to Protect Pensioners.
I haven't heard of one yet? Anyone else?
Ah, It seems they have committed to protecting the Triple Lock today. It must just be the Plus they don't like, lol"
Good Labour are committed to the triple lock but unless they either also commit to the plus bit or scrap the freeze on the earnings threshold then pensioners will indeed be worse of. Maybe the easy option is scrap the threshold freeze especially as they complained about it enough. |
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This from my point of view. I retired officially on 31/12/2019. Now financially payed from start of my working life into Serps. Until I retired. Plus yes have private and company pensions.
Up until March this year paid 20% tax on my other pensions apart from state one.
Now due to tax allowance changes I have to pay on one private/ company pension approx 27% tax.
I know a lot on here are and perhaps will say how lucky that I am.
Note I have worked very long hours and been away from home to get to this point.
My actual point is . If you are say ‘ prudent’ ? In thinking about providing enough money for retirement . Then get penalised doing so. Why bother ?
Others have said use equity release. Perhaps again yes own my own house ( now widower ) If I need to go into say care home . Then house will be sold to help pay care home bills.
My bills have not decreased ( other than council tax , due to being widower )
My actual spending power ? Has decreased.
Where I used to go sea fishing four times a month . Now down to two , yes or one.
So many pensioners who had surplus income . May like me be spending to help businesses , local economy and employing people ?
I will add . I in my voting years have either voted . Conservative, Labour or not voted.
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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I'm not going to say you are lucky. You've clearly saved a lot. I am confused how your tax rate has jumped from 20 to 27 pc. Is that just from fiscal drag?
I'm guessing that your pensions must be about 50k pa. Again, well played. And I totally get how cost of living affect everyone.
But I'd not be seeing why we should be reducing your tax versus anyone else. Those on much lower income would feel the benefits if 20p more a day. |
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"What we need from Labour is their Plan to Protect Pensioners.
I haven't heard of one yet? Anyone else?
Ah, It seems they have committed to protecting the Triple Lock today. It must just be the Plus they don't like, lol
Good Labour are committed to the triple lock but unless they either also commit to the plus bit or scrap the freeze on the earnings threshold then pensioners will indeed be worse of. Maybe the easy option is scrap the threshold freeze especially as they complained about it enough. "
Labour think pensioner baby boomers have too much money. They may have a point, but expect pensioners to be targeted through stealth taxes like freezing personal allowance or means testing. It's inevitable. |
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