FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > No education on gender identity
No education on gender identity
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"Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" Yes | |||
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"Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age? Yes" I think this could be a good move, if sex education and gender identity "is" being taught in schools to under 9's? Children should be allowed to be children, they will soon have enough things to worry about, let them enjoy their childhoods. | |||
"Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age? Yes I think this could be a good move, if sex education and gender identity "is" being taught in schools to under 9's? Children should be allowed to be children, they will soon have enough things to worry about, let them enjoy their childhoods." they should be allowed to be kids but it’s a tiny tiny minority that will want to take that away from them | |||
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""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. " Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. | |||
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""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. " I agree. Same with sex and sexuality and relationships. I read that as an overacting view to support the decision. And if you have that view, you never get to the actual adult discussion. | |||
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"Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" Yea and I think that’s right. Although my daughter received this education aged 9 and came home crying. She said the school told her she might suddenly grow a penis. She didn’t understand any of it and got confused. Stupid - leave it for secondary school if at all and must be taught alongside that it’s ok to be gay and it doesn’t mean you’re in the wrong body if you are attracted to the same sex. Where have all the gays gone?? Eddie Izzard even saying he’s not a cross dresser anymore but a she now? What makes him a woman other than the clothes he wears - it’s just daft | |||
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"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.." You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. | |||
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""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. " Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. | |||
"I do think that we just need to remind everyone, it’s ok to be gay! There’s nothing wrong with you or your body just because you’re same sex attracted. For me gender = labels and stereotypes. Sex = male or female (biology - a medical differentiation) Isn’t the latter just easier? Who you’re attracted to is irrelevant. How you want to dress or behave is irrelevant. Let’s ban stereotypes and labelling. Just get rid of gender stereotyping and end the confusion. " Gender isn't sexual orientation. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity." No, no, no ,no 
No need for gender neutrality or gender left fields, we need to leave the kids alone.
Us adults owe them a childhood, not confuse them for the sake of agendas. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. No, no, no ,no
No need for gender neutrality or gender left fields, we need to leave the kids alone.
Us adults owe them a childhood, not confuse them for the sake of agendas. "best post of the day we need to keep it real kids should to be kids leave them alone asif they don’t have enough shit to deal with facts over feelings every day | |||
"I do think that we just need to remind everyone, it’s ok to be gay! There’s nothing wrong with you or your body just because you’re same sex attracted. For me gender = labels and stereotypes. Sex = male or female (biology - a medical differentiation) Isn’t the latter just easier? Who you’re attracted to is irrelevant. How you want to dress or behave is irrelevant. Let’s ban stereotypes and labelling. Just get rid of gender stereotyping and end the confusion. Gender isn't sexual orientation." You’ve missed my point. A lot of kids are switching gender because they’re gay. So they think because they’re same sex attracted it must mean they’re in the wrong body | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity." Again you’ve missed the point We are male or female There are now 72 genders that’s just mental. Get rid of gender crap and just be male of female (sex) | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity." It won't be an 'era of no gender identity'. What I'm understanding from the radio is that we will stop teaching kids that gender is a 'spectrum'. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. " Hear hear  | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. No, no, no ,no
No need for gender neutrality or gender left fields, we need to leave the kids alone.
Us adults owe them a childhood, not confuse them for the sake of agendas. "No you're not getting what I mean. Gender has always been within socialisation (and always will, we cannot avoid it). We need structure whether we continue or return to, say like what schools did in my day. We haven't gone from not teaching about gender, to teaching gender. Gender identity has evolved as has current teachings. | |||
"I do think that we just need to remind everyone, it’s ok to be gay! There’s nothing wrong with you or your body just because you’re same sex attracted. For me gender = labels and stereotypes. Sex = male or female (biology - a medical differentiation) Isn’t the latter just easier? Who you’re attracted to is irrelevant. How you want to dress or behave is irrelevant. Let’s ban stereotypes and labelling. Just get rid of gender stereotyping and end the confusion. Gender isn't sexual orientation. You’ve missed my point. A lot of kids are switching gender because they’re gay. So they think because they’re same sex attracted it must mean they’re in the wrong body" That's a big assumption. Children should be attracted to others for childhood playtime. Obviously age related (but I'm thinking primary school ages here). | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. Again you’ve missed the point We are male or female There are now 72 genders that’s just mental. Get rid of gender crap and just be male of female (sex)" No I haven't missed your point, I've highlighted mine! Two genders still equals gender identity! And that is MY point. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. It won't be an 'era of no gender identity'. What I'm understanding from the radio is that we will stop teaching kids that gender is a 'spectrum'." That's the sort of response I was hoping for. Ta muchly. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. No, no, no ,no
No need for gender neutrality or gender left fields, we need to leave the kids alone.
Us adults owe them a childhood, not confuse them for the sake of agendas.
No you're not getting what I mean. Gender has always been within socialisation (and always will, we cannot avoid it). We need structure whether we continue or return to, say like what schools did in my day. We haven't gone from not teaching about gender, to teaching gender. Gender identity has evolved as has current teachings. "I have got where you are coming from | |||
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""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. Again you’ve missed the point We are male or female There are now 72 genders that’s just mental. Get rid of gender crap and just be male of female (sex)" as far as I can see there is little actual literature saying this and it may have originated with Facebook ! Has any school actually taught it to be true ? | |||
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""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. Again you’ve missed the point We are male or female There are now 72 genders that’s just mental. Get rid of gender crap and just be male of female (sex)" Hear hear! Get rid of..... 70 genders. | |||
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"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. " You were going well until the rubbish of the Conservatives delivering for the country. Wake up it has been 14 years of Tory decline and ruin. | |||
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"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. " do you know where these originated ? It does seem to have become "fact" on the internet, but that doesn't make it fact, no matter how many times it appears on a Google search. | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. "  comedy gold last paragraph | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. comedy gold last paragraph "There is no lie in the last paragraph, those things are happening. | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. comedy gold last paragraph
There is no lie in the last paragraph, those things are happening.
"Really? Which ONE? ROFL | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. comedy gold last paragraph
There is no lie in the last paragraph, those things are happening.
Really? Which ONE? ROFL"You tell me which of the things mentioned are not correct. | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. comedy gold last paragraph
There is no lie in the last paragraph, those things are happening.
Really? Which ONE? ROFL
You tell me which of the things mentioned are not correct.
"I asked first. But I'll bite. Inflation... Well done BoE! Growing the economy - global influences for rise and fall, if they don't want discredit for fall they don't get credit for the minute rise! Cutting waiting lists - . Being a HCP I hear of waiting lists that were a standard 12 weeks become 18, become 26 and so on.
Reducing debt - I haven't looked into that. But I'd question whether the debt is being paid or just the interest on it.
Stopping the boats - at least wait for the first flight to Rwanda FFS!
Flip flops SKS? The bloke isn't PM. He can flip flops all he likes as he readdresses his pledges dependent upon the state of the country the tories leave us in. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. Again you’ve missed the point We are male or female There are now 72 genders that’s just mental. Get rid of gender crap and just be male of female (sex) No I haven't missed your point, I've highlighted mine! Two genders still equals gender identity! And that is MY point." But I’m not talking about gender I’m talking about sexes. We are conflating gender and sex as a society | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. comedy gold last paragraph
There is no lie in the last paragraph, those things are happening.
Really? Which ONE? ROFL
You tell me which of the things mentioned are not correct.
I asked first.
But I'll bite.
Inflation... Well done BoE!
Growing the economy - global influences for rise and fall, if they don't want discredit for fall they don't get credit for the minute rise!
Cutting waiting lists - . Being a HCP I hear of waiting lists that were a standard 12 weeks become 18, become 26 and so on.
Reducing debt - I haven't looked into that. But I'd question whether the debt is being paid or just the interest on it.
Stopping the boats - at least wait for the first flight to Rwanda FFS!
Flip flops SKS? The bloke isn't PM. He can flip flops all he likes as he readdresses his pledges dependent upon the state of the country the tories leave us in."You will find all the things mentioned are correct, even waiting times  | |||
" We are conflating gender and sex as a society " This is how we have got into the confused position we are in today. People have been using semantics to manipulate gender identity and biological sex. | |||
"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. " You can't change/pick choose either | |||
" We are conflating gender and sex as a society This is how we have got into the confused position we are in today. People have been using semantics to manipulate gender identity and biological sex." I can easily see to a place where sex defines is defined by genitals at birth, and gender defined by brain make up. With both having a high but not exact correlation to chromosomes. While measuring brains is harder (when alive) that doesn't mean it's not a thing. We then need to discuss when it makes sense to split out society and then why one definition is more sensible, and who the winners and losers are. | |||
""Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views" Feels over simplified to me. Bit then so are many labels used at school level lessons. Why complicate things for under 9's? Lets be honest here, most adults are lost in the world of gender identity, children haven't got a chance. Gender identity has always been taught - but not labelled. You cannot help but introduce gender identity even if it's the stereotype gender roles. I cannot see how gender neutrality will be a thing in any form of socialisation and that includes education. Therefore there will need to be structure in this "new" era of "no" gender identity. Again you’ve missed the point We are male or female There are now 72 genders that’s just mental. Get rid of gender crap and just be male of female (sex) No I haven't missed your point, I've highlighted mine! Two genders still equals gender identity! And that is MY point. But I’m not talking about gender I’m talking about sexes. We are conflating gender and sex as a society " The thing is, I don't. Gender isn't tangible, sex is. | |||
"And it's not Facebook nonsense, look them up, some of them include : Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits, but not of the liquid variety I assume. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders. Sunak is right to tackle this utter nonsense. Starmer, who took 7 months to define a woman and steal Sunak's approach when he realised it wasn't going down well with the electorate, is a puppet and a chancer with no morals. Mr Flip Flop one minute doesn't know what a woman is, then the next he does, one minute he supports ULEZ, the next he doesn't, one minute he supports the NHS strike, the next he doesn't, first it's bye Angela, then hi Angela, more U turns than an Uber! In 2017 and 2019, Starmer said he thought Jeremy Corbyn would “make a great Prime Minister.” Then he insisted Corbyn would not stand at the next election as a Labour candidate. Only the Conservatives are getting on with the job and delivering for the UK – by halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. It'll all go to pot if people put their faith in Sir flip flop. comedy gold last paragraph
There is no lie in the last paragraph, those things are happening.
Really? Which ONE? ROFL
You tell me which of the things mentioned are not correct.
I asked first.
But I'll bite.
Inflation... Well done BoE!
Growing the economy - global influences for rise and fall, if they don't want discredit for fall they don't get credit for the minute rise!
Cutting waiting lists - . Being a HCP I hear of waiting lists that were a standard 12 weeks become 18, become 26 and so on.
Reducing debt - I haven't looked into that. But I'd question whether the debt is being paid or just the interest on it.
Stopping the boats - at least wait for the first flight to Rwanda FFS!
Flip flops SKS? The bloke isn't PM. He can flip flops all he likes as he readdresses his pledges dependent upon the state of the country the tories leave us in.
You will find all the things mentioned are correct, even waiting times "Nope | |||
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"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either "Wrong in both cases (at least re the law). | |||
" We are conflating gender and sex as a society This is how we have got into the confused position we are in today. People have been using semantics to manipulate gender identity and biological sex.I can easily see to a place where sex defines is defined by genitals at birth, and gender defined by brain make up. With both having a high but not exact correlation to chromosomes. While measuring brains is harder (when alive) that doesn't mean it's not a thing. We then need to discuss when it makes sense to split out society and then why one definition is more sensible, and who the winners and losers are. " The losers will be those in need of support if it isn't there. Gender dysphoria exists. | |||
"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either
Wrong in both cases (at least re the law)."The law is just a human construct | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. " Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. " the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. " Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed." it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. " Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. " In one sense, yes it's OK. But is it OK if we are telling our children that if they like a certain thing, that this ‘makes’ them a boy or a girl, or one of 70 other varieties? Is it OK if the Govt waves them through arbitrarily for surgery (where the taxpayer picks up the bill) with say the possible risks of transfeminine bottom surgery including, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, nerve injury, stenosis of the vagina, inadequate depth of the vagina, injury to the urinary tract, abnormal connections between the urethra and the skin, painful intercourse and anesthesia risks. OK that we pay to redesign all our toilets for a miniscule % of the population? And what else does it lead to? We have had children identifying as cats for heaven's sake. If you claim to be a cat, which is a species and not a gender, then I will dismiss you as having a serious mental disorder and that you should be checked out by a psychiatrist. Identifying as an animal other than human isn't considered a gender. Some would argue that agender isn't either, but at least you still identify as a human. Once you decide to be a cat, you're just crazy. And so is the teacher who facilitates this. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about" Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. | |||
"It's likely appeasing some of the extremists in the party, without being backed up by teaching professionals. Age appropriate education is helpful " Quite, when you look at a recent YouGov poll 60% of people asked thought it was good to educate children around gender ID. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. In one sense, yes it's OK. But is it OK if we are telling our children that if they like a certain thing, that this ‘makes’ them a boy or a girl, or one of 70 other varieties? Is it OK if the Govt waves them through arbitrarily for surgery (where the taxpayer picks up the bill) with say the possible risks of transfeminine bottom surgery including, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, nerve injury, stenosis of the vagina, inadequate depth of the vagina, injury to the urinary tract, abnormal connections between the urethra and the skin, painful intercourse and anesthesia risks. OK that we pay to redesign all our toilets for a miniscule % of the population? And what else does it lead to? We have had children identifying as cats for heaven's sake. If you claim to be a cat, which is a species and not a gender, then I will dismiss you as having a serious mental disorder and that you should be checked out by a psychiatrist. Identifying as an animal other than human isn't considered a gender. Some would argue that agender isn't either, but at least you still identify as a human. Once you decide to be a cat, you're just crazy. And so is the teacher who facilitates this. " not sure why we are jumping to the cat thing. Nor jumped to surgery. Proper education helps not hinders this as does proper training and support of teachers who may have misguided views too. As above, I have found no scientific support for 72 genders. Happy to be corrected. But for a nine year old it's not about teaching the science. It's about building foundations for future learning. And not creating a world of alienation. This has undertones of "taking politics out of education" which coincidentally was part of a GE campaign... And meant section 23 was in place throught most of my junior school, all of my secondary and removed after I had left uni. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. In one sense, yes it's OK. But is it OK if we are telling our children that if they like a certain thing, that this ‘makes’ them a boy or a girl, or one of 70 other varieties? Is it OK if the Govt waves them through arbitrarily for surgery (where the taxpayer picks up the bill) with say the possible risks of transfeminine bottom surgery including, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, nerve injury, stenosis of the vagina, inadequate depth of the vagina, injury to the urinary tract, abnormal connections between the urethra and the skin, painful intercourse and anesthesia risks. OK that we pay to redesign all our toilets for a miniscule % of the population? And what else does it lead to? We have had children identifying as cats for heaven's sake. If you claim to be a cat, which is a species and not a gender, then I will dismiss you as having a serious mental disorder and that you should be checked out by a psychiatrist. Identifying as an animal other than human isn't considered a gender. Some would argue that agender isn't either, but at least you still identify as a human. Once you decide to be a cat, you're just crazy. And so is the teacher who facilitates this. not sure why we are jumping to the cat thing. Nor jumped to surgery. Proper education helps not hinders this as does proper training and support of teachers who may have misguided views too. As above, I have found no scientific support for 72 genders. Happy to be corrected. But for a nine year old it's not about teaching the science. It's about building foundations for future learning. And not creating a world of alienation. This has undertones of "taking politics out of education" which coincidentally was part of a GE campaign... And meant section 23 was in place throught most of my junior school, all of my secondary and removed after I had left uni. " What was Section 23 about? | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. In one sense, yes it's OK. But is it OK if we are telling our children that if they like a certain thing, that this ‘makes’ them a boy or a girl, or one of 70 other varieties? Is it OK if the Govt waves them through arbitrarily for surgery (where the taxpayer picks up the bill) with say the possible risks of transfeminine bottom surgery including, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, nerve injury, stenosis of the vagina, inadequate depth of the vagina, injury to the urinary tract, abnormal connections between the urethra and the skin, painful intercourse and anesthesia risks. OK that we pay to redesign all our toilets for a miniscule % of the population? And what else does it lead to? We have had children identifying as cats for heaven's sake. If you claim to be a cat, which is a species and not a gender, then I will dismiss you as having a serious mental disorder and that you should be checked out by a psychiatrist. Identifying as an animal other than human isn't considered a gender. Some would argue that agender isn't either, but at least you still identify as a human. Once you decide to be a cat, you're just crazy. And so is the teacher who facilitates this. not sure why we are jumping to the cat thing. Nor jumped to surgery. Proper education helps not hinders this as does proper training and support of teachers who may have misguided views too. As above, I have found no scientific support for 72 genders. Happy to be corrected. But for a nine year old it's not about teaching the science. It's about building foundations for future learning. And not creating a world of alienation. This has undertones of "taking politics out of education" which coincidentally was part of a GE campaign... And meant section 23 was in place throught most of my junior school, all of my secondary and removed after I had left uni. " The origins of so much of trans ideology can be traced back to the work of one man – sexologist and psychologist Dr John Money (1921-2006). He popularised terms like ‘gender identity’ and founded the world’s first gender-identity clinic at John Hopkins University in Baltimore in the USA in 1966, specialising in the psychological and medical treatment of transgender patients. Money aggressively pushed the view, central to today’s trans movement, that though people may be born with biologically determined sex characteristics, they do not determine whether they are male or female. His work was cruel and amoral – and left a trail of misery, pain and suicide in its wake. Have a read about what happened to David Reimer - it was a tragedy for him and his family. Not learning from it would be a tragedy for all of us. For it is from him, that the 72 genders were spawned. Of the examples I gave, please remove yourself from your usual 'all-things-to-everyone' fence and say which ones you think have been invented? | |||
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"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. In one sense, yes it's OK. But is it OK if we are telling our children that if they like a certain thing, that this ‘makes’ them a boy or a girl, or one of 70 other varieties? Is it OK if the Govt waves them through arbitrarily for surgery (where the taxpayer picks up the bill) with say the possible risks of transfeminine bottom surgery including, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, nerve injury, stenosis of the vagina, inadequate depth of the vagina, injury to the urinary tract, abnormal connections between the urethra and the skin, painful intercourse and anesthesia risks. OK that we pay to redesign all our toilets for a miniscule % of the population? And what else does it lead to? We have had children identifying as cats for heaven's sake. If you claim to be a cat, which is a species and not a gender, then I will dismiss you as having a serious mental disorder and that you should be checked out by a psychiatrist. Identifying as an animal other than human isn't considered a gender. Some would argue that agender isn't either, but at least you still identify as a human. Once you decide to be a cat, you're just crazy. And so is the teacher who facilitates this. not sure why we are jumping to the cat thing. Nor jumped to surgery. Proper education helps not hinders this as does proper training and support of teachers who may have misguided views too. As above, I have found no scientific support for 72 genders. Happy to be corrected. But for a nine year old it's not about teaching the science. It's about building foundations for future learning. And not creating a world of alienation. This has undertones of "taking politics out of education" which coincidentally was part of a GE campaign... And meant section 23 was in place throught most of my junior school, all of my secondary and removed after I had left uni. What was Section 23 about? " preventing schools from promoting homosexuality or "acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship" | |||
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"That was Section 28 Can't you check these things first! " my bad, I wasn't paying attention. Multi tasking at work. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. In one sense, yes it's OK. But is it OK if we are telling our children that if they like a certain thing, that this ‘makes’ them a boy or a girl, or one of 70 other varieties? Is it OK if the Govt waves them through arbitrarily for surgery (where the taxpayer picks up the bill) with say the possible risks of transfeminine bottom surgery including, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, nerve injury, stenosis of the vagina, inadequate depth of the vagina, injury to the urinary tract, abnormal connections between the urethra and the skin, painful intercourse and anesthesia risks. OK that we pay to redesign all our toilets for a miniscule % of the population? And what else does it lead to? We have had children identifying as cats for heaven's sake. If you claim to be a cat, which is a species and not a gender, then I will dismiss you as having a serious mental disorder and that you should be checked out by a psychiatrist. Identifying as an animal other than human isn't considered a gender. Some would argue that agender isn't either, but at least you still identify as a human. Once you decide to be a cat, you're just crazy. And so is the teacher who facilitates this. not sure why we are jumping to the cat thing. Nor jumped to surgery. Proper education helps not hinders this as does proper training and support of teachers who may have misguided views too. As above, I have found no scientific support for 72 genders. Happy to be corrected. But for a nine year old it's not about teaching the science. It's about building foundations for future learning. And not creating a world of alienation. This has undertones of "taking politics out of education" which coincidentally was part of a GE campaign... And meant section 23 was in place throught most of my junior school, all of my secondary and removed after I had left uni. The origins of so much of trans ideology can be traced back to the work of one man – sexologist and psychologist Dr John Money (1921-2006). He popularised terms like ‘gender identity’ and founded the world’s first gender-identity clinic at John Hopkins University in Baltimore in the USA in 1966, specialising in the psychological and medical treatment of transgender patients. Money aggressively pushed the view, central to today’s trans movement, that though people may be born with biologically determined sex characteristics, they do not determine whether they are male or female. His work was cruel and amoral – and left a trail of misery, pain and suicide in its wake. Have a read about what happened to David Reimer - it was a tragedy for him and his family. Not learning from it would be a tragedy for all of us. For it is from him, that the 72 genders were spawned. Of the examples I gave, please remove yourself from your usual 'all-things-to-everyone' fence and say which ones you think have been invented? " Ive heard of him but don't want to trust my memory. Not now. I'm not an expert. And not sure what you mean by this fence I'm on. I don't think there are 72 genders as I've seen little scientific evidence to support this. I've seen summaries of interesting scienxe around neurons that ofen correlate to xy but not in trans people. That can mean I'd guess that there could lend itself to 2, possibly 3. But both science and experience of people suggest there are cases where people have strong intrinsic beliefs that they are not the sex they present. Including people who are older than me so likely grew up in even less 'liberal" conditions. Fab similarly has given me exposure. I think it is useful for all we recognise them, not create them into a vote winner, and seek to give our children the same empathy here as they would with same sex couples, disabilities, or any non norm condition. | |||
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"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either
Wrong in both cases (at least re the law).
The law is just a human construct "And one we must abide by  | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. " Only in the case of no sex education. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education." The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.com | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. " The poster thinks it's concerning under 9s but re gender identity, it's not. If it was I'd agree. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.com" Sounds about right to me : start with the biology of reproduction that is natural and understandable for 9-year-olds. The gender identity discussion needs far more maturity. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.com" that's from the intro of the guidance. The guidance itself is confusing Schools must talk about gender reassignment but not identity. Which feels conflicted. If asked about gender identity they must talk about biological sex (confusing) and not present contested views as fact (leaving open the possibility of describing it as a view some hold...) The guidance on how to handle questioning is still under consultation and imo gives no answers about how to discuss. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.com Sounds about right to me : start with the biology of reproduction that is natural and understandable for 9-year-olds. The gender identity discussion needs far more maturity. " So you think gender identity should be taught after the age of 18? | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.comthat's from the intro of the guidance. The guidance itself is confusing Schools must talk about gender reassignment but not identity. Which feels conflicted. If asked about gender identity they must talk about biological sex (confusing) and not present contested views as fact (leaving open the possibility of describing it as a view some hold...) The guidance on how to handle questioning is still under consultation and imo gives no answers about how to discuss. " I just think the Tories want to whitewash anything to do with trans and it starts with gender identity. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.comthat's from the intro of the guidance. The guidance itself is confusing Schools must talk about gender reassignment but not identity. Which feels conflicted. If asked about gender identity they must talk about biological sex (confusing) and not present contested views as fact (leaving open the possibility of describing it as a view some hold...) The guidance on how to handle questioning is still under consultation and imo gives no answers about how to discuss. I just think the Tories want to whitewash anything to do with trans and it starts with gender identity. " Are you a man that likes dressing like a woman? If so that’s fine. But you have to recognise you’re still and always will be a man. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.comthat's from the intro of the guidance. The guidance itself is confusing Schools must talk about gender reassignment but not identity. Which feels conflicted. If asked about gender identity they must talk about biological sex (confusing) and not present contested views as fact (leaving open the possibility of describing it as a view some hold...) The guidance on how to handle questioning is still under consultation and imo gives no answers about how to discuss. I just think the Tories want to whitewash anything to do with trans and it starts with gender identity. Are you a man that likes dressing like a woman? If so that’s fine. But you have to recognise you’re still and always will be a man." Rubbish. Anyway, my gender matches my sex but I can appreciate that in law people can change their birth sex via certain criteria. You don't accept it? If no, the problem is yours. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. The poster thinks it's concerning under 9s but re gender identity, it's not. If it was I'd agree." Your title of the thread: No education on gender identity From our exchange earlier: "Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" You: Yes | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. The poster thinks it's concerning under 9s but re gender identity, it's not. If it was I'd agree. Your title of the thread: No education on gender identity From our exchange earlier: "Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" You: Yes" Exactly. Reread what you put not what you think you put. Now if you meant " is this for the under 9s that includes removal of sex education" I would explicate further. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. The poster thinks it's concerning under 9s but re gender identity, it's not. If it was I'd agree. Your title of the thread: No education on gender identity From our exchange earlier: "Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" You: Yes Exactly. Reread what you put not what you think you put. Now if you meant " is this for the under 9s that includes removal of sex education" I would explicate further." Or rather 'would have explicated' | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. The poster thinks it's concerning under 9s but re gender identity, it's not. If it was I'd agree. Your title of the thread: No education on gender identity From our exchange earlier: "Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" You: Yes Exactly. Reread what you put not what you think you put. Now if you meant " is this for the under 9s that includes removal of sex education" I would explicate further. Or rather 'would have explicated'" I'm unsure of your motive for the thread or how our interaction has arrived at this point. Instead of dancing around the subject / comments, layout your thoughts / argument for or against the proposal. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. " Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.com Sounds about right to me : start with the biology of reproduction that is natural and understandable for 9-year-olds. The gender identity discussion needs far more maturity. So you think gender identity should be taught after the age of 18?" Personally, I'd say more around the 15 - 16 age group would seem appropriate. We should let children have innocent and carefree childhoods. | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. the attackers were youths around 12. So not much older. Educating 12 year olds is a very different proposition than educating 5 - 8 year olds, which is the headline behind the changes being discussed.it's a lot of education to cram into 3 years. Imo we can start a bit earlier on a softer basis. Eg is 9 too young to say that some peoplendress in clothes more associated with the other sex ? However the way that some MPs have position why they are taking this approach makes me suspicious we'd cover that conversation well. This isnt a discussion about toilets and jails but how people want to live their life. It's also not helpful for children with trans parents and children whose friends have trans parents to ignore that it happens irl. As it was with same sex couples in previous years. Such a minority barely registering in numbers is enough for under 9's to be taught about gender identities? No, is my view leave children alone and let them be children without having to worry about things they needn't be worried about Not for the first time, one of the most intelligent 'takes' on the subject matter. The poster thinks it's concerning under 9s but re gender identity, it's not. If it was I'd agree. Your title of the thread: No education on gender identity From our exchange earlier: "Is this part of the proposed changes to remove sex education for school children under 9 years of age?" You: Yes Exactly. Reread what you put not what you think you put. Now if you meant " is this for the under 9s that includes removal of sex education" I would explicate further. Or rather 'would have explicated' I'm unsure of your motive for the thread or how our interaction has arrived at this point. Instead of dancing around the subject / comments, layout your thoughts / argument for or against the proposal." As is clear in the OP, it was a news item that I was reporting. This has lead to a discussion. IRL do you often tell people how to converse/discuss? | |||
"https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/16/toddlers-3-attacked-in-transphobic-hate-crime-in-belfast/ The risk of not teaching kids about these things in a controlled way, is they will form their own views. See also: sexuality. Regardless of sex v gender, we should accept and educate that people born with a set of genitals may wish to live their life "as if" they had another. And that's okay. Lets not lose sight of the target audience here, under 9's. Only in the case of no sex education. The draft guidance for schools in England was compiled following concerns that children were being exposed to "inappropriate" content. It states that sex education should be taught no earlier than year five, when pupils are aged nine, and what is described as the "contested topic of gender identity" should not be taught at all. From sky.com Sounds about right to me : start with the biology of reproduction that is natural and understandable for 9-year-olds. The gender identity discussion needs far more maturity. So you think gender identity should be taught after the age of 18? Personally, I'd say more around the 15 - 16 age group would seem appropriate. We should let children have innocent and carefree childhoods. " It should be age appropriate definitely. Perhaps also a safeguarding issue (guidance for teachers for those vulnerable children with gender dysphoria and possible suicide ideation). | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? " I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. " Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. " Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). | |||
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"Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). " I'm not saying there are no people who believe 100% they are the wrong sex and would benefit from transitioning, I think that number is extremely low. However, have you read the Cass report, the % of children who are autistic and claim to be trans is extremely high. I feel the time has come to start helping children with their real issues that will support them for the rest of their lives, not scarring them mentally, operating on them or providing them medication that interferes with their development. The closure of the Tavistock centre is working example of how considered and meaningful support was not provided to children, it is a scandal how they let children make life changing decisions. Many people quote gender dysphoria, you can see why when the numbers have increased so dramatically, but it should bring into focus the peer pressure and the need for wanting to belong children face challenges with. However not enough is being done to understand the real causes of these claims, which was stated in the report. Detransitioning is high, however when this happens we have adult groups trying desperately to argue away the reasons and trying to debunk it has a problem, which it is and there is next to no support for this! Crazy that there is an abundance of support and cheering on for transitioning and next to nothing for going back. Being kind and supportive to children, allow them to be children. | |||
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"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either
Wrong in both cases (at least re the law).
The law is just a human construct
And one we must abide by "If you want to change your thinking and behaviour because the law says so go ahead. Personally I'm an individual with my own thoughts and ability to reason without external instructions from an all knowing government. I assume there are or have been laws you think ridiculous and don't or wouldn't have followed? Surely nobody is that easily led in terms of their views on right and wrong?  | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). " Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit " Who would encourage you? | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit " I've seen nothing to suggest that you would. That's why I struggle with the fear side of all this. The same way I have had no experience of anyone suggesting a guy that dresses in women's clothing or chooses home economoca at school should transition. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit Who would encourage you?" Online trans influencers | |||
"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either
Wrong in both cases (at least re the law).
The law is just a human construct
And one we must abide by
If you want to change your thinking and behaviour because the law says so go ahead. Personally I'm an individual with my own thoughts and ability to reason without external instructions from an all knowing government.
I assume there are or have been laws you think ridiculous and don't
or wouldn't have followed? Surely nobody is that easily led in terms of their views on right and wrong?
"I abide by the law, I did not give my thoughts on it. Laws can be overturned. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit " There are anomalies | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit Who would encourage you? Online trans influencers" I’m not absolutely sure how algorithms work but don’t you generally have to go looking for such people? None have ever appeared on my various social media timelines. | |||
"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either
Wrong in both cases (at least re the law).
The law is just a human construct
And one we must abide by
If you want to change your thinking and behaviour because the law says so go ahead. Personally I'm an individual with my own thoughts and ability to reason without external instructions from an all knowing government.
I assume there are or have been laws you think ridiculous and don't
or wouldn't have followed? Surely nobody is that easily led in terms of their views on right and wrong?
I abide by the law, I did not give my thoughts on it. Laws can be overturned."So yes? You blindly do as you're told | |||
"Does this mean we're not teaching kids thay can just change sex or decide their own sex? I hope so.. You can’t change your sex only gender anyway. Gender is a human construct that’s based on perceived stereotypes aka bull shit. You can't change/pick choose either
Wrong in both cases (at least re the law).
The law is just a human construct
And one we must abide by
If you want to change your thinking and behaviour because the law says so go ahead. Personally I'm an individual with my own thoughts and ability to reason without external instructions from an all knowing government.
I assume there are or have been laws you think ridiculous and don't
or wouldn't have followed? Surely nobody is that easily led in terms of their views on right and wrong?
I abide by the law, I did not give my thoughts on it. Laws can be overturned.
So yes? You blindly do as you're told "I abide by laws that concern me or pay the consequences. This law doesn't concern me but I can respect people for whom it means a great deal (IE legally change their biological sex). You cannot? Your problem! We know there's arseholish legislation, Rwanda being stated as safe cos the govt wills it. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit Who would encourage you? Online trans influencers I’m not absolutely sure how algorithms work but don’t you generally have to go looking for such people? None have ever appeared on my various social media timelines." You wouldn't need to look for the exact thing for algorithms to pick up on and start feeding you 'interest to you'. | |||
"To follow up on the Money part. I've just read the spiked article (I suspect you used parts fo that for your post) I think we can all agree he was hugely unethical and callous. The article says that gender is not fluid. The rejection of the poor child's "forced" gender is telling. He knew he was meant to be a boy despite everything his world and body was telling him. But this doesn't show that gender and sex has to marry. Indeed it may even show how hard it is to force someone to feel the gender they aren't. Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated from his body. Those are all things I hear trans people say about their body. Money seems to show (against his desires) that gender is nature over nurture. That should maybe allay fears of brainwashing. Not add to them. And it shows how carefully we should tread here. Whatever your views. That's part of the reason I recoil when I see it being used as political point scoring. There are people at the end of this. Yes, I did read the Spiked article - so what? Did you think I was born in the 70s with pre-loaded information about this case from 1966? What are you insinuating? For those who don't know, David Reimer was a perfectly healthy baby boy, born in 1965, with normal male genitalia. At 7 months old, a doctor diagnosed him with phimosis, considered fixable by circumcision. It should have been a routine operation. However, Reimer suffered severe injuries to his penis & doctors could not perform a reconstruction. His parents saw Dr Money on TV and contacted him and ultimately, he persuaded them to allow Reimer to undergo clinical castration and the construction of female genitalia. As per Money’s instructions, Reimer’s parents raised him pretending that he had been born a girl. Now renamed Brenda, Reimer was put in dresses and offered dolls houses and a sewing machine to play with. No one outside of the immediate family knew about Reimer’s complicated medical situation – even his twin brother was led to believe that Reimer had been a little girl from the start. So yes, Reimer felt something was wrong. He felt alienated though from his newly constructed female body! If you hear trans people say that about their bodies, you must mean post-operatively! Or perhaps you were being purposefully oblique? The whole transition process was a catastrophic disaster, resulting in Reimer's suicide. Things may be medically better nearly 60 years later with happier outcomes, but it's seen by many to be a cautionary tale about promoting gender ideology and on-demand NHS-funded transitioning to children from a worryingly young age. So I therefore support Rishi Sunak on this. Your position, apart from being on the fence, is impossible to discern. Are you for this type of thing at 9 or against? I was making no judgement on spiked. I was checking ww were using the same sources. I will be clear. I hear trans people say they don't feel like they belong to their birth sex. That there is a difference between the gender they feel/think they are (and by feel/think I understand this to be something deep and intrinsic) and the body they are in. I'm on the fence in general because I don't know enough despite trying. I do have concerns that there has been many times when popular opinion has shown to be very wrong and very damaging. I think that there can be some for form of education for 9yo about this. It, like relationships and sex, should be handled with acre and be age appropriate. I'm neither a scientist nor a teacher to be able to say what this looks like. I don't know when someone starts to have gender doubts. The case above showed people become aware at a very early age. If gender confusion happens about 9 I'd want someone to know it's okay the same way if want someone who was gay and stating to be aware of it to know it's okay. To feel different and broken is hugely damaging as we saw above. Kids will also have parents and older siblings who do not identify as their birth sex. Again, I'd support schools helping educating here. We can ignore it. We can call it contested (words not used in the RE part of the guidance!) and we can leave social media to "educate". Indeed, SM is probably educating our teachers so we are getting the worst of all worlds! It's never clear if those who are against this being taught are school do so because they don't believe the ware people who feel their gender is different to the sex (so why teach about it), because they feel those people have been brainwashed into it (so teaching may do the same) or because it's just too difficult a subject to teach to a 9 yo at all. Define what identifying as birth sex means? Because all this boils down to is someone not confirming to a stereotype. Then don’t. Making the world change - crying about dead names and screaming abuse because no one can figure out your pronouns - come on. Im not fully convinced it's just about gender norms. I've read some interesting stuff on brain differences between cis men, cis women, and trans men/women. And it's our brains that make use who we are (and human). Whilst our brains make us humans All the rest of these labels are just utter crap. You can try to intellectualise it til the cows come home but either your body is designed genetically to carry a child or it isn’t. I spent my child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls. By today’s definition I’d be encouraged to be a trans male. It’s all utter shit Who would encourage you? Online trans influencers I’m not absolutely sure how algorithms work but don’t you generally have to go looking for such people? None have ever appeared on my various social media timelines. You wouldn't need to look for the exact thing for algorithms to pick up on and start feeding you 'interest to you'. " Thank you. Unlikely then that a girl would be targeted by ‘online trans influencers’ just because they ‘spent their child hood hanging out with boys, short hair, covered in mud, climbing trees, hated dolls’? | |||
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