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Railways to be nationalised.
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Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.
Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network
Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.
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"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.
Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network
Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.
"
I'm no expert but I do think a public service like this shoul be nationalised. Any organisation providing an essential service really. |
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By (user no longer on site) 35 weeks ago
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"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.
Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network
Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.
I'm no expert but I do think a public service like this shoul be nationalised. Any organisation providing an essential service really."
Absolutely!  |
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"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power ..."
No they won't. Their plan is to do nothing, and just let the current passenger service contracts run out. They'll then create new service organisations to run them. The trains will still be privately owned, and all freight services will be privately run. They aren't "nationalising' anything.
"Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming."
Nonsense, it's just rhetoric to get the socialists on their side. |
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"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.
Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network
Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.
"
Clawback 2.2 billion? Yet they are not saying how much it would cost to do to start with, however.
But Labour also promised to nationalise in the 90's too, and that never happened.
Rail fares are atrociously high and something has to change. So maybe we can all live for a while with the promise, watch our money being spent on feasibility studies. Listen to endless hours of argument in the Commons and still wait for it to fade away into the mist it was born from.
Lets' all come back to this thread in 5 years. lol.
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Ps. Qiuck CBI check:
"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."
Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years. |
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So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)
'Under the proposals, they will create a new public sector body named Great British Railways, (where have we heard this before?) as well as establish a "best-price ticket guarantee" for travellers and offer automatic "delay repay" schemes.'
Best price guarantee really means that the ticket price will be just as high, but between the services they would have to offer you the cheaper of the two 
And no funding figures at all?
She may as well have just said 'the trains need fixing' and walked off-stage. |
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"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:
"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."
Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years."
£400bn then
Add the half a million council houses promised, a trillion odd to address climate change (housing, transport etc )
An ageing generation of pensionless renters
On a deferred state pension.
Nhs money for 40 new hospitals, 50,000 nurses etc
£8million a day for asylum and tens billions for their overseas resettlement
Where’s the money coming from |
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"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:
"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."
Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years.
£400bn then
Add the half a million council houses promised, a trillion odd to address climate change (housing, transport etc )
An ageing generation of pensionless renters
On a deferred state pension.
Nhs money for 40 new hospitals, 50,000 nurses etc
£8million a day for asylum and tens billions for their overseas resettlement
Where’s the money coming from "
Not forgeting Royal Mail. |
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This would be an unmitigated disaster. For a start, a left wing government nationalising private companies would but financial markets into a tailspin. The huge cost would starve all other projects of funds. Railways would descend into an operational basket case like the NHS and Post Office. The solution, is for government to work with private industry via regulation and incentives to make things work. |
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By *irldnCouple 35 weeks ago
Brighton |
I wonder if there is any country in the World where we would not have to bother with any of this crap. I want to live there. Where things just work.
Ideologically I believe the railways (and train operators) should be owned by the state. But reversing decades of private ownership is going to be a shitshow.
Mr Discretion is right IMO, they will just let each franchise run its course and then take back control when it expires. |
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"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power ...
No they won't. Their plan is to do nothing, and just let the current passenger service contracts run out. They'll then create new service organisations to run them. The trains will still be privately owned, and all freight services will be privately run. They aren't "nationalising' anything.
Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.
Nonsense, it's just rhetoric to get the socialists on their side."
lets see your evidence of this then |
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By (user no longer on site) 35 weeks ago
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All the contrived 'markets' should be renationalised. Personally I'd have put water ahead of the railways. Electric, gas etc. to follow.
Businesses wishing to stay in the sector could be invited to tender to operate the natonalised industries every few years. |
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Unfortunately the traditional railway worker has had their work ethic handed down from the previous generations who probably worked for British Rail. This means that they don't give a toss whether the trains run on time or not ! |
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"So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)"
The current train service operators (companies like GWR) don't own any of the trains, or the track, they just have a 5 year licence to operate the services. The track is state owned, and the trains are owned by investment companies known as ROSCOs (ROlling Stock operating Companies).
Labour's plan is to leave the ROSCOs as they are, and just let the services contracts expire, taking them over as they do. That way they don't have to pay any compensation to anyone. |
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"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:
"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."
Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years."
Surely this all depends on how it is achieved.
There could be ten different methods resulting in 10 different costs. |
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By *irldnCouple 35 weeks ago
Brighton |
"So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)
The current train service operators (companies like GWR) don't own any of the trains, or the track, they just have a 5 year licence to operate the services. The track is state owned, and the trains are owned by investment companies known as ROSCOs (ROlling Stock operating Companies).
Labour's plan is to leave the ROSCOs as they are, and just let the services contracts expire, taking them over as they do. That way they don't have to pay any compensation to anyone."
Not commenting on whether this will result in a good outcome but it does seem a sensible way to go forward. |
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Labour had better get their skates. Most terminate soon.
-----------------------------
Crossrail
Dates 25 May 2025 to May 2032
Sheffield Supertram
Dates 22 March 2024 to date (expected to run until at least 2029; Network Rail track access contract runs to 1 April 2028)
Caledonian Sleeper
Dates 25 June 2023 to date
TransPennine Express
Dates 28 May 2023 to date
West Coast Partnership
Dates 15 October 2023 to 18 October 2026
East Midlands
Dates 16 October 2022 to 17 October 2026
Great Western
Dates 26 June 2022 to 21 June 2025
Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern
Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025
ScotRail
Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025 (with options for up to ten years total)
Chiltern
Dates 31 December 2021 to 31 March 2025
South Eastern
Dates 17 October 2021 to 12 October 2024
West Midlands
Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024
East Anglia
Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024
Essex Thameside Railway
Dates 25 July 2021 to 19 July 2025 (originally to 23 July 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
20 July 2025 to 16 July 2028 (with options to 9 July 2033 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)
South West
Dates 30 May 2021 to 24 May 2025 (originally to 27 May 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
25 May 2025 to 20 May 2028
Wales & Borders
Dates 7 February 2021 to 6 February 2026
Cross Country
Dates 18 October 2020 to 14 October 2023
15 October 2023 to 16 October 2027
Northern
Dates 1 March 2020 to 15 May 2021 (original contract: Barton-on-Humber service)
1 March 2020 to 28 February 2022 (original contract: remaining services)
1 March 2022 to 28 February 2027 (contract extension)
InterCity East Coast ?
Dates 24 June 2018 to 27 June 2020 (original contract)
28 June 2020 to 21 June 2025 (contract extension) (originally to 24 June 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
22 June 2025 to 19 June 2027 (with options to 15 June 2030 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)
|
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"This would be an unmitigated disaster. For a start, a left wing government nationalising private companies would but financial markets into a tailspin. The huge cost would starve all other projects of funds. Railways would descend into an operational basket case like the NHS and Post Office. The solution, is for government to work with private industry via regulation and incentives to make things work."
What like HS2? |
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"So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)
The current train service operators (companies like GWR) don't own any of the trains, or the track, they just have a 5 year licence to operate the services. The track is state owned, and the trains are owned by investment companies known as ROSCOs (ROlling Stock operating Companies).
Labour's plan is to leave the ROSCOs as they are, and just let the services contracts expire, taking them over as they do. That way they don't have to pay any compensation to anyone."
The BBC article also mentions letting the contracts expire and then the government take on the contract themselves. However they note that in doing that the government also has to take on the current operators debts, leases and liabilities like workers pensions. If accurate I would say it's not free at all. Also if the government want to invest in the network or buy back trains then again they have to pay. Of course when I say government paying it is all of us paying. |
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By *abioMan 35 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Labour had better get their skates. Most terminate soon.
-----------------------------
Crossrail
Dates 25 May 2025 to May 2032
Sheffield Supertram
Dates 22 March 2024 to date (expected to run until at least 2029; Network Rail track access contract runs to 1 April 2028)
Caledonian Sleeper
Dates 25 June 2023 to date
TransPennine Express
Dates 28 May 2023 to date
West Coast Partnership
Dates 15 October 2023 to 18 October 2026
East Midlands
Dates 16 October 2022 to 17 October 2026
Great Western
Dates 26 June 2022 to 21 June 2025
Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern
Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025
ScotRail
Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025 (with options for up to ten years total)
Chiltern
Dates 31 December 2021 to 31 March 2025
South Eastern
Dates 17 October 2021 to 12 October 2024
West Midlands
Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024
East Anglia
Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024
Essex Thameside Railway
Dates 25 July 2021 to 19 July 2025 (originally to 23 July 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
20 July 2025 to 16 July 2028 (with options to 9 July 2033 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)
South West
Dates 30 May 2021 to 24 May 2025 (originally to 27 May 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
25 May 2025 to 20 May 2028
Wales & Borders
Dates 7 February 2021 to 6 February 2026
Cross Country
Dates 18 October 2020 to 14 October 2023
15 October 2023 to 16 October 2027
Northern
Dates 1 March 2020 to 15 May 2021 (original contract: Barton-on-Humber service)
1 March 2020 to 28 February 2022 (original contract: remaining services)
1 March 2022 to 28 February 2027 (contract extension)
InterCity East Coast ?
Dates 24 June 2018 to 27 June 2020 (original contract)
28 June 2020 to 21 June 2025 (contract extension) (originally to 24 June 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
22 June 2025 to 19 June 2027 (with options to 15 June 2030 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)
"
That is the whole point..
Two things people need to realise
1) because of the pandemic…. And the way franchising contracts were restructured, the railways are already nationalised in everything but name already!
Basically the way franchising agreements works at the moment is that the government pay the TOCs to run trains on a day by day basis, and the Tocs get a set percentage of any profits made if any!
2) the big number would only apply if they were to take over every company on day 1 of a labour government, which is not what would is being proposed!
Because all the franchise agreements all run out within the next 5 years… all that is happening is those contracts are not being renewed and a single entity (great British railways) is taking over running services
Nothing else is changing… network rail will still be dealing with infrastructure, trains are still going be leased from leasing companies!
So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start! For example, when my award winning assisted travel job went to India because it cost less… each company had their own AT department!
The gall of our then bosses asking us to train up the people talking our jobs ( yes that happened!) we said no…. Turned out a year later it was a disaster and everything came back, but the point is all the in house stuff can be centralised! |
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"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:
"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."
Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years."
Think you will find £196bn is the standard day return price for a ticket from Brighton to London. |
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By *abioMan 35 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Labour had better get their skates. Most terminate soon.
-----------------------------
Crossrail
Dates 25 May 2025 to May 2032
Sheffield Supertram
Dates 22 March 2024 to date (expected to run until at least 2029; Network Rail track access contract runs to 1 April 2028)
Caledonian Sleeper
Dates 25 June 2023 to date
TransPennine Express
Dates 28 May 2023 to date
West Coast Partnership
Dates 15 October 2023 to 18 October 2026
East Midlands
Dates 16 October 2022 to 17 October 2026
Great Western
Dates 26 June 2022 to 21 June 2025
Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern
Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025
ScotRail
Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025 (with options for up to ten years total)
Chiltern
Dates 31 December 2021 to 31 March 2025
South Eastern
Dates 17 October 2021 to 12 October 2024
West Midlands
Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024
East Anglia
Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024
Essex Thameside Railway
Dates 25 July 2021 to 19 July 2025 (originally to 23 July 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
20 July 2025 to 16 July 2028 (with options to 9 July 2033 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)
South West
Dates 30 May 2021 to 24 May 2025 (originally to 27 May 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
25 May 2025 to 20 May 2028
Wales & Borders
Dates 7 February 2021 to 6 February 2026
Cross Country
Dates 18 October 2020 to 14 October 2023
15 October 2023 to 16 October 2027
Northern
Dates 1 March 2020 to 15 May 2021 (original contract: Barton-on-Humber service)
1 March 2020 to 28 February 2022 (original contract: remaining services)
1 March 2022 to 28 February 2027 (contract extension)
InterCity East Coast ?
Dates 24 June 2018 to 27 June 2020 (original contract)
28 June 2020 to 21 June 2025 (contract extension) (originally to 24 June 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)
22 June 2025 to 19 June 2027 (with options to 15 June 2030 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)
"
A lot of your details need updating.. don’t know where you got it from…
So… east coast transpennie and northern already run by GBR
Scotrail and the caley sleeper are run by the Scottish government
Wales and border is now transport for wales and run by the Welsh government
Crossrail are operated by TFL…. |
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"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power ...
No they won't. Their plan is to do nothing, and just let the current passenger service contracts run out. They'll then create new service organisations to run them. The trains will still be privately owned, and all freight services will be privately run. They aren't "nationalising' anything.
Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.
Nonsense, it's just rhetoric to get the socialists on their side."
They also didnt say cheaper fares, they said a simpler fare structure |
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"So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start!"
Except that when the government takes on the services contracts, it also has to take on all the staff. They can't just sack them, and huge levels of redundancies is not going to be a good look for them. So they'll just have to keep them all and find them new jobs.
No efficiency savings to be made there. |
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"So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start!
Except that when the government takes on the services contracts, it also has to take on all the staff. They can't just sack them, and huge levels of redundancies is not going to be a good look for them. So they'll just have to keep them all and find them new jobs.
No efficiency savings to be made there."
Apparently they also have to take on the debts and liabilities like pensions and that's before any money for improvements. |
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"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:
"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."
Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years.
£400bn then
Add the half a million council houses promised, a trillion odd to address climate change (housing, transport etc )
An ageing generation of pensionless renters
On a deferred state pension.
Nhs money for 40 new hospitals, 50,000 nurses etc
£8million a day for asylum and tens billions for their overseas resettlement
Where’s the money coming from "
I think that's why they're going to let the operator license expire, before taking each one into full public ownership and operations. Still better than doing nothing about our shambolic system. |
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"Well let's face it privatisation has not worked with the railways.
"
It worked very well for the likes of Brian Souter and the Directors of Porterbrook who made a killing because the Tories sold taxpayers' assets on the cheap to their mates. |
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By *eavenNhellCouple 34 weeks ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start!
Except that when the government takes on the services contracts, it also has to take on all the staff. They can't just sack them, and huge levels of redundancies is not going to be a good look for them. So they'll just have to keep them all and find them new jobs.
No efficiency savings to be made there."
they will do what the railway always does redundancies voulentary and negotiated one of the biggest will be delay clerks under BR 1 per shift per control area post privatisation at least 3 per shift per TOC in the area that could be anything upto 15 per shift and they wont be needed once they are all one company . |
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