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Equal Opportunities in Team Sports
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
(Please note that this isn't a discussion about men running as women and the whole trans sport issue. Please keep that for another thread.)
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'Invincible' all-girl football team goes whole season unbeaten - in boys' league
Queens Park Ladies under-12s dominated the 11 other boys' teams, winning 18 of their 22 games, scoring 61 goals and conceding only 11 to secure the league title.'
From SkyNews.
Go Girls !!!!!!
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Surely the time is with us that all girls/women's teams or individuals as members of Teams should compete in open tournaments of mixed sexes?
I played hockey at school, and we could regularly beat 'friendly' male teams - because the Phys. Ed. teacher thought we could learn from 'stronger opposition'. Turns out that they learned from us.
My husband, quite a competitive swimmer and runner in his day, used to train with a female runner because she was faster than him, he accepted that fact and was forever trying to beat her and his running improved.
The nay sayers kept saying women's football wouldn't impress the public and had no commercial value. How wrong were they?
This can only be led from the top - so come on Rishi let's hear it for the girls!
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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They are given the chance. Hence this news story.
I'm of mixed views of it should be true across all ages.
Do we end up with "open" and then categories. Or is it a free for all? |
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If there were open tournaments of mixed sex sports, it would only be mixed seed at a very young age.
Once puberty kicks in most, if not all would be male dominated and even tge best woman teams wouldn't break past average quality teams.
That's why there aren't many mixed seed sports, it wouldn't allow woman to compete equally. We are different from men, let's celebrate the difference,
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"They are given the chance. Hence this news story.
I'm of mixed views of it should be true across all ages.
Do we end up with "open" and then categories. Or is it a free for all? "
They are ONLY given the chance if the prevailing mind-set of the borough in which they are educated in caters for mixed or male/female teams. The so called 'little leagues' have the same problem. If someone is championing female play, they may get to play males teams. But there are NO mixed male/female teams at all.
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"If there were open tournaments of mixed sex sports, it would only be mixed seed at a very young age.
Once puberty kicks in most, if not all would be male dominated and even tge best woman teams wouldn't break past average quality teams.
That's why there aren't many mixed seed sports, it wouldn't allow woman to compete equally. We are different from men, let's celebrate the difference,
Mrs x"
The 'difference' in the story above is that the girls beat the boys hands down. Which makes them worth celebrating.
Proof perfect that they they can compete and beat at the same level. |
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"They are given the chance. Hence this news story.
I'm of mixed views of it should be true across all ages.
Do we end up with "open" and then categories. Or is it a free for all?
They are ONLY given the chance if the prevailing mind-set of the borough in which they are educated in caters for mixed or male/female teams. The so called 'little leagues' have the same problem. If someone is championing female play, they may get to play males teams. But there are NO mixed male/female teams at all.
"
There are reasons, mainly biological as to why we don't see mixed teams.
Of course there will be anomalies but by and large, boys are physically stronger than girls once puberty hits. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female. |
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"I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female."
There is but as soon as girls start getting hurt (and they will) then there will be uproar and calls of 'not fair'.
Also, changing room issues with boys and girls going through puberty, 1 team, 2 changing rooms, isn't much of 'a team'. |
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But in general woman cannot keep up with men in sports, so having mixed sports would be a disaster for most competitive sports woman.
If all sports was open sexed then it would just be men competing after a certain stage. In effect it would see the demise of competitive female sports and I'm pretty sure female athletes wouldn't want that.
Keep the sexes separate in sports.
Mrs x |
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"I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.
There is but as soon as girls start getting hurt (and they will) then there will be uproar and calls of 'not fair'.
Also, changing room issues with boys and girls going through puberty, 1 team, 2 changing rooms, isn't much of 'a team'."
Think there is a limit of girls only being able to play in 'boys' teams up to the under 12 years bracket, for some of the reasons you suggest.
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.
There is but as soon as girls start getting hurt (and they will) then there will be uproar and calls of 'not fair'.
Also, changing room issues with boys and girls going through puberty, 1 team, 2 changing rooms, isn't much of 'a team'."
lol - if that is the reasoning NOT to have mixed leagues or teams, then the girls better go back and take up needlecraft. lmao |
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"I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.
There is but as soon as girls start getting hurt (and they will) then there will be uproar and calls of 'not fair'.
Also, changing room issues with boys and girls going through puberty, 1 team, 2 changing rooms, isn't much of 'a team'.
lol - if that is the reasoning NOT to have mixed leagues or teams, then the girls better go back and take up needlecraft. lmao"
Not at all, just play against other girls in a sport that's fair and gives them a chance to compete.
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"
Think there is a limit of girls only being able to play in 'boys' teams up to the under 12 years bracket, for some of the reasons you suggest.
Mrs x"
To make their triumph all the sweeter, they had to overcome initial resistance from county FA bosses, who initially told them they would have to play in a girls' competition.
Manager Toby Green was convinced his team was good enough to play against boys every week and the players, who train twice a week, have proved him right on the pitch.
******* Next season, the girls will be promoted to the under-13s second division.******* |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.
There is but as soon as girls start getting hurt (and they will) then there will be uproar and calls of 'not fair'.
Also, changing room issues with boys and girls going through puberty, 1 team, 2 changing rooms, isn't much of 'a team'.
lol - if that is the reasoning NOT to have mixed leagues or teams, then the girls better go back and take up needlecraft. lmaoNot at all, just play against other girls in a sport that's fair and gives them a chance to compete.
Mrs x"
They were 'played fair' against boys in a boys league - and beat them all. |
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"I would also add that there is much more to team sport than strength and pace.
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.
There is but as soon as girls start getting hurt (and they will) then there will be uproar and calls of 'not fair'.
Also, changing room issues with boys and girls going through puberty, 1 team, 2 changing rooms, isn't much of 'a team'.
lol - if that is the reasoning NOT to have mixed leagues or teams, then the girls better go back and take up needlecraft. lmao"
No need. They can compete in their chosen sports against other girls. Allowing this team to compete in a boys league through puberty is a recipe for disaster. I guess we won't have confirmation of that until it happens, but it will happen. |
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Think there is a limit of girls only being able to play in 'boys' teams up to the under 12 years bracket, for some of the reasons you suggest.
Mrs x
To make their triumph all the sweeter, they had to overcome initial resistance from county FA bosses, who initially told them they would have to play in a girls' competition.
Manager Toby Green was convinced his team was good enough to play against boys every week and the players, who train twice a week, have proved him right on the pitch.
******* Next season, the girls will be promoted to the under-13s second division.*******"
The reason it made the news was because it's an anomaly. It's not the unbeaten thing, it's the fact that it's girls playing against boys. Girls don't normally win against boys and it's a great achievement but it was in the third division of a local league and puberty is not a major factor here yet.
At a higher standard and in a couple of years I don't the results will be the same.
But congratulations for this season, it's a brilliant achievement.
Mrs x |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
I have no problem having open tournaments but they have to also maintain female only categories.
The physiological advantages of being male are clear in sports like athletics so only having a mixed category will remove the ability of female athletes to compete on a level playing field. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Allowing this team to compete in a boys league through puberty is a recipe for disaster."
Explain please? Remember that Puberty happens to boys too, with much the same characteristics - excepting periods. |
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"Allowing this team to compete in a boys league through puberty is a recipe for disaster.
Explain how it would be?"
Because puberty will see boys grow taller, heavier, stronger and faster. Physical contact with smaller, slower, lighter, weaker opposition would not be a fair challenge.
That's why under 16 Yr old boys don't compete against under 13 year old lads.
That's why it wouldn't be fair.
At under 18s the difference between the sexes will be huge. It wouldn't be fair.
Mrs x |
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"Allowing this team to compete in a boys league through puberty is a recipe for disaster.
Explain please? Remember that Puberty happens to boys too, with much the same characteristics - excepting periods."
I'm speaking more about the boys going through puberty, the boys will become bigger, stronger, faster. The girls won't be able to compete and will likely get hurt in the process. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"
The reason it made the news was because it's an anomaly.
"
Manager Toby Green made that anomaly for them, because he saw what they were able to do. The FA resisted it, he fought it because the Law allowed him too.
He was right. |
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You can't take anecdotal examples to push for changes at large scale. Sure there can be individual women who are proven physically stronger than men. But on an average, it's known that muscle strength of men is higher than that of women. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"
I'm speaking more about the boys going through puberty, the boys will become bigger, stronger, faster. The girls won't be able to compete and will likely get hurt in the process. "
And I'll go right back to . . .
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"You can't take anecdotal examples to push for changes at large scale. Sure there can be individual women who are proven physically stronger than men. But on an average, it's known that muscle strength of men is higher than that of women."
All those boys teams with average muscle strength than the girls team - yet the girls still beat them.
And I'll keep adding . . .
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female. |
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"
I'm speaking more about the boys going through puberty, the boys will become bigger, stronger, faster. The girls won't be able to compete and will likely get hurt in the process.
And I'll go right back to . . .
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female."
Of course other factors need to be taken into account but when you only have 2 of your 4, its not a fair game.
As I said, we'll soon see. Guaranteed by the time they reach u-15 they'll be miles behind 'the boys', if not before. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
Sorry Cat but I think you are missing some key points.
It is clear this u12 girls team had excellent skills and worked brilliantly as a team. They deserve to be celebrated.
But as others have said, once both sexes go through puberty there are significant physiological differences. These include…
1. Higher bone density
2. Longer limbs
3. Larger lung capacity
4. Larger heart capacity
5. Stronger muscles
There are always outliers but this applies generally to all.
In athletics you only need to look at age graded records. There is some parity up to around the age of 11 but huge disparity thereafter.
If you are focused on football then while nobody would question the skill of the women’s England team, their play is slower and less powerful/less physical than their male counterparts. |
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"You can't take anecdotal examples to push for changes at large scale. Sure there can be individual women who are proven physically stronger than men. But on an average, it's known that muscle strength of men is higher than that of women.
All those boys teams with average muscle strength than the girls team - yet the girls still beat them.
And I'll keep adding . . .
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female."
Can I point out two of the things that you say make a team better are strength and pace, both of which boys will massively outpace girls in.
Boys grow stronger and faster than girls.
Whilst a good achievement, it was in the local third division not even the Premier boys division of the local team.
Sure it wasn't long ago that the USA womans team, a world leader in their sport was beaten by a team of 15 year old boys. I'm not certain but I also think they were beaten by an 'old boys" team of retired players.
These are some of the best players of the female game on Earth. And they've been beaten by young lads and old men.
Men and woman competing together is not a fair competition.
Mrs x |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"*************Anyway - Well done those girls. And let's keep changing Hearts. Minds and Attitudes in a world still dominated by the patriarchy of a bygone age************"
To achieve what though? What would be the outcome of female adults competing against male adults in most sports? |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Sorry Cat but I think you are missing some key points.
It is clear this u12 girls team had excellent skills and worked brilliantly as a team. They deserve to be celebrated.
But as others have said, once both sexes go through puberty there are significant physiological differences. These include…
1. Higher bone density
2. Longer limbs
3. Larger lung capacity
4. Larger heart capacity
5. Stronger muscles
There are always outliers but this applies generally to all.
In athletics you only need to look at age graded records. There is some parity up to around the age of 11 but huge disparity thereafter.
If you are focused on football then while nobody would question the skill of the women’s England team, their play is slower and less powerful/less physical than their male counterparts."
But it's never been tested properly in major competition has it. Like the rise of women's professional football in the last 5 years, it was talked down by the majority of society and look what happened - and they still how so far to go - until it keeps being tested, and not resisted we never will know.
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"*************Anyway - Well done those girls. And let's keep changing Hearts. Minds and Attitudes in a world still dominated by the patriarchy of a bygone age************
To achieve what though? What would be the outcome of female adults competing against male adults in most sports?"
Winning the competition. (sorry, not sure what your are asking) |
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"*************Anyway - Well done those girls. And let's keep changing Hearts. Minds and Attitudes in a world still dominated by the patriarchy of a bygone age************
To achieve what though? What would be the outcome of female adults competing against male adults in most sports?
Winning the competition. (sorry, not sure what your are asking)"
In football specifically, no women's team will ever win an elite competition against men. Never. |
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"You can't take anecdotal examples to push for changes at large scale. Sure there can be individual women who are proven physically stronger than men. But on an average, it's known that muscle strength of men is higher than that of women.
All those boys teams with average muscle strength than the girls team - yet the girls still beat them.
And I'll keep adding . . .
Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female."
Random anecdotal events do not prove anything large scale. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Sorry Cat but I think you are missing some key points.
It is clear this u12 girls team had excellent skills and worked brilliantly as a team. They deserve to be celebrated.
But as others have said, once both sexes go through puberty there are significant physiological differences. These include…
1. Higher bone density
2. Longer limbs
3. Larger lung capacity
4. Larger heart capacity
5. Stronger muscles
There are always outliers but this applies generally to all.
In athletics you only need to look at age graded records. There is some parity up to around the age of 11 but huge disparity thereafter.
If you are focused on football then while nobody would question the skill of the women’s England team, their play is slower and less powerful/less physical than their male counterparts.
But it's never been tested properly in major competition has it. Like the rise of women's professional football in the last 5 years, it was talked down by the majority of society and look what happened - and they still how so far to go - until it keeps being tested, and not resisted we never will know.
"
There *may* be a difference between team sports and individual sports. There may be a difference between different types of team sports.
You may only be focusing on football but I am not clear as your OP talked about running and hockey etc?
But individual records clearly demonstrate a difference between male and female performance. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"*************Anyway - Well done those girls. And let's keep changing Hearts. Minds and Attitudes in a world still dominated by the patriarchy of a bygone age************
To achieve what though? What would be the outcome of female adults competing against male adults in most sports?
Winning the competition. (sorry, not sure what your are asking)
In football specifically, no women's team will ever win an elite competition against men. Never. "
And until that is tested - that's just an opinion.  |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Sorry Cat but I think you are missing some key points.
It is clear this u12 girls team had excellent skills and worked brilliantly as a team. They deserve to be celebrated.
But as others have said, once both sexes go through puberty there are significant physiological differences. These include…
1. Higher bone density
2. Longer limbs
3. Larger lung capacity
4. Larger heart capacity
5. Stronger muscles
There are always outliers but this applies generally to all.
In athletics you only need to look at age graded records. There is some parity up to around the age of 11 but huge disparity thereafter.
If you are focused on football then while nobody would question the skill of the women’s England team, their play is slower and less powerful/less physical than their male counterparts.
But it's never been tested properly in major competition has it. Like the rise of women's professional football in the last 5 years, it was talked down by the majority of society and look what happened - and they still how so far to go - until it keeps being tested, and not resisted we never will know.
There *may* be a difference between team sports and individual sports. There may be a difference between different types of team sports.
You may only be focusing on football but I am not clear as your OP talked about running and hockey etc?
But individual records clearly demonstrate a difference between male and female performance."
I was talking about 'team' sports whichever they may be. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"*************Anyway - Well done those girls. And let's keep changing Hearts. Minds and Attitudes in a world still dominated by the patriarchy of a bygone age************
To achieve what though? What would be the outcome of female adults competing against male adults in most sports?
Winning the competition. (sorry, not sure what your are asking)"
I am saying that in the majority of sports where physical advantage of being male plays a part, the only outcome will be females sidelined and never achieving anything of note. Is that something we want?
Right now the London Marathon is on TV. Should the elite females be racing against the elite males? |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Sorry Cat but I think you are missing some key points.
It is clear this u12 girls team had excellent skills and worked brilliantly as a team. They deserve to be celebrated.
But as others have said, once both sexes go through puberty there are significant physiological differences. These include…
1. Higher bone density
2. Longer limbs
3. Larger lung capacity
4. Larger heart capacity
5. Stronger muscles
There are always outliers but this applies generally to all.
In athletics you only need to look at age graded records. There is some parity up to around the age of 11 but huge disparity thereafter.
If you are focused on football then while nobody would question the skill of the women’s England team, their play is slower and less powerful/less physical than their male counterparts.
But it's never been tested properly in major competition has it. Like the rise of women's professional football in the last 5 years, it was talked down by the majority of society and look what happened - and they still how so far to go - until it keeps being tested, and not resisted we never will know.
There *may* be a difference between team sports and individual sports. There may be a difference between different types of team sports.
You may only be focusing on football but I am not clear as your OP talked about running and hockey etc?
But individual records clearly demonstrate a difference between male and female performance.
I was talking about 'team' sports whichever they may be."
Ok but your OP was confusing because you also said…
“My husband, quite a competitive swimmer and runner in his day, used to train with a female runner because she was faster than him, he accepted that fact and was forever trying to beat her and his running improved.”
So the implication was you were also including individual sports in this? |
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"Sorry Cat but I think you are missing some key points.
It is clear this u12 girls team had excellent skills and worked brilliantly as a team. They deserve to be celebrated.
But as others have said, once both sexes go through puberty there are significant physiological differences. These include…
1. Higher bone density
2. Longer limbs
3. Larger lung capacity
4. Larger heart capacity
5. Stronger muscles
There are always outliers but this applies generally to all.
In athletics you only need to look at age graded records. There is some parity up to around the age of 11 but huge disparity thereafter.
If you are focused on football then while nobody would question the skill of the women’s England team, their play is slower and less powerful/less physical than their male counterparts.
But it's never been tested properly in major competition has it. Like the rise of women's professional football in the last 5 years, it was talked down by the majority of society and look what happened - and they still how so far to go - until it keeps being tested, and not resisted we never will know.
"
But we do, take running, pace if you will.
The fastest female time at the Olympic trials in the states last time, wouldn't have seen the female sprinter gain a place in the knockout rounds of the men's competition.
The time she posted was bettered that year by hundreds of boys at High School meets that year.
When that's scaled up to under 18's, over 2000 boys beat her time.
So boys are considerably quicker, much, much quicker.
Now you could look at all the records for, strength, endurance, in fact any athletic quality you can think of and men will hold them, not woman.
That's not because of an 'outdated patriarchal' approach to sport. It's down to nature.
So it has been tested.
What you are suggesting is that all the great female sprinters fade into obscurity because ALL their achievements can be basically beaten into oblivion by thousands of male children each year.
So why would any female choose to train if they could gain recognition for their efforts. The answer is they wouldn't, it would bethe death for womans sports,
Mrs x
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"
Right now the London Marathon is on TV. Should the elite females be racing against the elite males?"
Watching it. And Yes. Because like my husband, he never did beat her in any race, and the teachers used to use it as an example for girls to look at to take heart in. And my husband has two racks of running medals.
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"*************Anyway - Well done those girls. And let's keep changing Hearts. Minds and Attitudes in a world still dominated by the patriarchy of a bygone age************
To achieve what though? What would be the outcome of female adults competing against male adults in most sports?
Winning the competition. (sorry, not sure what your are asking)
In football specifically, no women's team will ever win an elite competition against men. Never.
And until that is tested - that's just an opinion. "
It has been tested in games. Women can't compete will men in physical sports.
Professional women are probably as good as decent mens semi-pros.
It is only opinion but its one most football fans would agree with. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"
So the implication was you were also including individual sports in this?"
Just proving that there are better runners who were female than male - by the way my husband was 14/15 at the time |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"
Right now the London Marathon is on TV. Should the elite females be racing against the elite males?
Watching it. And Yes. Because like my husband, he never did beat her in any race, and the teachers used to use it as an example for girls to look at to take heart in. And my husband has two racks of running medals.
"
You think elite women should compete against elite men? Sorry that only ends one way. Women giving up in sport as there will be no point.
Sorry but your husband as a sample of one is not a good indicator. Later today look at the times the elite men run. See how many of them beat the fastest elite woman. Now the elite women will of course thrash 99% of all the men in the marathon today, but they won’t beat most of the elite men. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"
So the implication was you were also including individual sports in this?
Just proving that there are better runners who were female than male - by the way my husband was 14/15 at the time"
Of course there are. But your husband was obviously never competing at a top level. The best females will be better than 99% of males on the planet but will not be better than that 1% elite/top level sportsmen (making up the % to illustrate a point). |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Aww well - the girls just need to give up then.
But somehow, I don't think that they are gonna'
 "
Which girls? All girls or just this football team?
Girls need to compete in fair competition. I know a lot about athletics, but much much less about football. I KNOW that female athletes cannot beat male athletes at the top level.
Re football, as others have said, I suspect the girls can do well against boys teams but I also suspect as those physical advantages really start coming into play from 12-16 and I strongly suspect the boys teams will have an increasing advantage. |
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"Aww well - the girls just need to give up then.
But somehow, I don't think that they are gonna'
"
What are they giving up? They already participate in sports. No one is stopping them from participating. |
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36696264/#:~:text=Male%20subjects%20become%20notably%20stronger,in%20concentric%20than%20eccentric%20contractions.
Male subjects become notably stronger than female subjects around age 15 years. In adults, sex differences in strength are more pronounced in upper-body than lower-body muscles and in concentric than eccentric contractions.
Greater male than female strength is not because of higher voluntary activation but to greater muscle mass and type II fiber areas
Who gives a fuck about science anyway? It's the ideology that matters |
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"This Obsession with Strength . . .
So I'll keep adding . . .
'Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.""
I will add more. If two teams have same ability and mindset and pace, the team that is stronger will win. If you want to take mixed team, it you have two candidates with similar ability, but with similar strengths, then the person with more strength will get the nod.
In practice, this is what will happen with your amazing idea. People start mixing men and women in a team. Just due to average of physical attributes, men start being the larger part of the team. Then there will be a movement for equal participation forcing % of women in the team. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"
I will add more. If two teams have same ability and mindset and pace, the team that is stronger will win.
"
Teams who are stronger in the men's leagues and the women's leagues loose all the time. |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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I watch women's football, and non league, and have played at a fair level.
Non league is quicker and more physical than the top womens level.
And that's nothing compared to the full time leagues.
Because strength and speed is a huge part of the game.
It's great the girls team has had a great season in the third division of a local junior league. And imo it should be encouraged for as long as possible to give the best girls the most opportunities to improve.
But would more be out off if they started to struggle? Because the bottom leagues of football are slow, technically rubbish, buy still full of cloggers. Let's call it masculine aggression ... |
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Girl's v boys (pre puberty) would be relatively equal
Post puberty would be no contest. Biology doesn't care about your beliefs or ideology
However, I've always firmly believed that in sports where there is no (or limited) physical issue mixed sports should be the standard
Skill based sports such as darts, snooker etc (arguably golf though I know little about the sport and others could educate me on why it wouldn't be fair)
Driving sports
I believe horse riding (show jumping etc) are already mixed but I'm unsure
But sport's reliant on physical contest would be a blowout. Men ARE stronger than women. Undeniably. Any argument against this is foolish and a denial of reality |
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"This Obsession with Strength . . .
So I'll keep adding . . .
'Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female.""
Boys become stronger and faster than girls. That's your 'strength and pace' argument diminished.
What makes a girls sides 'ability and mindset' able to overcome greater strength and pace. And why are girls 'abilities' greater than boys? Doesn't make sense.
Is this just your option or has someone else suggested this,
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"This Obsession with Strength . . .
So I'll keep adding . . .
'Ability and mind-set, strength and pace is what makes a 'whole' team better than the next team. Male or female."Boys become stronger and faster than girls. That's your 'strength and pace' argument diminished.
What makes a girls sides 'ability and mindset' able to overcome greater strength and pace. And why are girls 'abilities' greater than boys? Doesn't make sense.
Is this just your option or has someone else suggested this,
Mrs x"
Lol. You argued my point for methen argued against it.  |
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"Again . .
Teams who are stronger in the men's leagues and the women's leagues loose all the time"
They do, that's obvious.
But generally the strongest, faster, more technically gifted team wins the league. Don't think it's accepted that the weaker, slower, less able teams do well in the league.
As they age boys teams will be stronger, faster, more technically gifted and will normally beat girls teams easily... it's just nature, nothing personal.
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Again . .
Teams who are stronger in the men's leagues and the women's leagues loose all the time They do, that's obvious.
But generally the strongest, faster, more technically gifted team wins the league. Don't think it's accepted that the weaker, slower, less able teams do well in the league.
As they age boys teams will be stronger, faster,
"
*********more technically gifted ************
" and will normally beat girls teams easily... it's just nature, nothing personal."
Just the attitude that female sports face all over the world |
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"Girl's v boys (pre puberty) would be relatively equal
Post puberty would be no contest. Biology doesn't care about your beliefs or ideology
However, I've always firmly believed that in sports where there is no (or limited) physical issue mixed sports should be the standard
Skill based sports such as darts, snooker etc (arguably golf though I know little about the sport and others could educate me on why it wouldn't be fair)
Driving sports
I believe horse riding (show jumping etc) are already mixed but I'm unsure
But sport's reliant on physical contest would be a blowout. Men ARE stronger than women. Undeniably. Any argument against this is foolish and a denial of reality "
Women could compete against men in golf but tbh with the speed and strength thing again it would be unfair.
Women already have closer tees on every course in the world. There's a reason for that. |
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The reigning female world champions at the time, the USA were beaten 5-2 by an under 15' boys team.
The Matildas, at the time the 5th best female team on the planet were beaten 7-0 by an under 16's boys team.
It's obvious that females cannot compete on the same level as guys, I don't like admitting defeat but it'd impossible to argue against this factually,
Mrs x |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"Again . .
Teams who are stronger in the men's leagues and the women's leagues loose all the time"
yes. But the difference in strength and speed is marginal when compared to men versus women. It's not the be all and end all. Bit it's something professional teams look at when scouting. Likewise height. Barca apparently did everything they can to make Messi as tall as possible. He's still probably taller and faster than most female players (I'd guess).
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Where are all these technically gifted female players?
Mrs x"
In EVERY pro league female football team all over the World.
Technical Skill is taught and learned NOT given by Nature.
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"Where are all these technically gifted female players?
Mrs x
In EVERY pro league female football team all over the World.
Technical Skill is taught and learned NOT given by Nature.
"
But these technically gifted female players are being beaten, comprehensively by YOUNG BOYS.
This would suggest one side are more technically gifted than the others. If I've been to subtle, the boys would appear more gifted, at least for the first 6 goals they slotted past the Oz ladies. The last goal was probably one of the luckiest seventh goals I've ever seen scored. To say the Oz ladies were lucky to have scored nil would be generous to them.
Mrs x |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 30 weeks ago
Burley |
Personally, I think that mixed events will ultimately push women out of sports altogether, and this is not fair on them. The stats for world records in all events are easy enough to find - I had a look at the World Athletics stats page. Every single event listed is by male and female best achievements. Not once does a female best beat a male best, in any of the events.
100m - men 9.58, women 10.49
400m - men 43.03, women 47.60
800m - men 1.40.91, women 1.53.28
High jump - men 2.45m, women 2.09m
Long jump - men 8.95m, women 7.52m
And it goes on. I realise that these aren't stats from team sports, as in the OP, but it gives a valuable insight into the differing abilities between men and women as regards strength, speed and stamina, all of which are necessary for any sport, team or solo. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy women's sports - especially football. I think the women play harder football than men - similar to the days when male players had nicknames like Ron "chopper" Harries.  |
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"Personally, I think that mixed events will ultimately push women out of sports altogether, and this is not fair on them. The stats for world records in all events are easy enough to find - I had a look at the World Athletics stats page. Every single event listed is by male and female best achievements. Not once does a female best beat a male best, in any of the events.
100m - men 9.58, women 10.49
400m - men 43.03, women 47.60
800m - men 1.40.91, women 1.53.28
High jump - men 2.45m, women 2.09m
Long jump - men 8.95m, women 7.52m
And it goes on. I realise that these aren't stats from team sports, as in the OP, but it gives a valuable insight into the differing abilities between men and women as regards strength, speed and stamina, all of which are necessary for any sport, team or solo. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy women's sports - especially football. I think the women play harder football than men - similar to the days when male players had nicknames like Ron "chopper" Harries. "
Please don't do that, you should never let facts get in the way of a good story.
Do you think your 'Chopper' analogy screams technical excellence or more of a basic, brutal approach,
Mrs x |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 30 weeks ago
Burley |
"Personally, I think that mixed events will ultimately push women out of sports altogether, and this is not fair on them. The stats for world records in all events are easy enough to find - I had a look at the World Athletics stats page. Every single event listed is by male and female best achievements. Not once does a female best beat a male best, in any of the events.
100m - men 9.58, women 10.49
400m - men 43.03, women 47.60
800m - men 1.40.91, women 1.53.28
High jump - men 2.45m, women 2.09m
Long jump - men 8.95m, women 7.52m
And it goes on. I realise that these aren't stats from team sports, as in the OP, but it gives a valuable insight into the differing abilities between men and women as regards strength, speed and stamina, all of which are necessary for any sport, team or solo. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy women's sports - especially football. I think the women play harder football than men - similar to the days when male players had nicknames like Ron "chopper" Harries. Please don't do that, you should never let facts get in the way of a good story.
Do you think your 'Chopper' analogy screams technical excellence or more of a basic, brutal approach,
Mrs x"
That last paragraph is a good question, and my answer is more my preference I guess. I wouldn't say brutal, but I do prefer the "harder" style of football that used to be played. Today's male players are paid far too much and seem finicky and gutless when going in for a hard tackles or taking chances. I don't think women have got to this stage yet. I like to watch people who play hard to win, rather than those who pull back in case their wages or value drops due to slight injury. |
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"Girl's v boys (pre puberty) would be relatively equal
Post puberty would be no contest. Biology doesn't care about your beliefs or ideology
However, I've always firmly believed that in sports where there is no (or limited) physical issue mixed sports should be the standard
Skill based sports such as darts, snooker etc (arguably golf though I know little about the sport and others could educate me on why it wouldn't be fair)
Driving sports
I believe horse riding (show jumping etc) are already mixed but I'm unsure
But sport's reliant on physical contest would be a blowout. Men ARE stronger than women. Undeniably. Any argument against this is foolish and a denial of reality
Women could compete against men in golf but tbh with the speed and strength thing again it would be unfair.
Women already have closer tees on every course in the world. There's a reason for that. "
I thought as much, I did guess strength would come into it with a big drive for example but thought I'd ask
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
To think strength, and therefore speed, does not give males an advantage is plain silly. Obviously females can be as skilful, but they will be slower and weaker. Playing against other females (in each age category) will showcase skill and ensure speed/strength is comparable. |
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It's not Equal Opportunities for female sportstars to compete with their male counterparts. In fact there's nothing equal about it at all.
Woman should just compete against other woman like they have trained for most of their lives.
Even the world's greatest, like Serena Williams, says she cannot compete with men and would be beaten by a man ranked around 500 in the world.
Female sports should be just, for female,
Mrs x |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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It'll happen eventually for some sports.
I've coached junior teams for rugby and cricket through the various age groups. With rugby the girls play with the lads up until puberty from when they split off for obvious reasons. Many think the game would be better if organised into size/weight categories rather than age and if it did then perhaps girls could compete with boys for longer. Hard to see women ever competing with elite men though.
Cricket is an odd one because arguably women should be doing a lot better by now. More and more women play amateur league cricket every year but even the very best women are border line picks at ECB premier league clubs. Part of the issue is that the women's game actually holds them back. Girls can play at county level girls level which sounds great but actually is a lower standard than regular club cricket where they compete with the boys. If girls kept to playing against the lads they'd maybe do better and there's no reason women shouldn't be able to compete at all levels as batters/keepers/slow bowlers.
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
This thread may now be dead but just one more post to illustrate the disparity b/w females and males as puberty kicks in and they get older.
2023 800m fastest runners in UK
12yr old boy = 2.04.22
12 yr old girl = 2.15.38
14yr old boy = 1.54.08
14 yr old girl = 2.08.30
16yr old boy = 1.49.89
16yr old girl = 2.01.50
The 12yr old girl would have been 13th on a joint list with boys.
The 14yr old girl would have been 109th on a joint list with boys.
The 16yr old girl would have been 144th on a joint list with boys.
Clearly this is athletics but the physical advantage applies to most other sports too. |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
This thread most definitely isn't dead. Now. go do the research, and quit with the stronger/faster notion . . . it's a good job the female athletes don't . . .
Curling.
Archery
Rifle/Shooting
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Gymnastics
Horse Riding
Darts
Shooting Sports
Golf
Dressage
Surprisingly, Weightlifting (for the same reasons as Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming and Running)
And finally. The attitude of those around them.
Go Girls!!!!
|
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
Sorry I missed posting during most of the day . . . Family day that ended in a Mega Trivial Pursuits Tournament in which 6 females trounced 6 males 5-1. (just sayin')
Then F1 Racing in which the fems beat the gents 4-2 races.
Go Girls !!!! |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"This thread most definitely isn't dead. Now. go do the research, and quit with the stronger/faster notion . . . it's a good job the female athletes don't . . .
Curling.
Archery
Rifle/Shooting
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Gymnastics
Horse Riding
Darts
Shooting Sports
Golf
Dressage
Surprisingly, Weightlifting (for the same reasons as Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming and Running)
And finally. The attitude of those around them.
Go Girls!!!!
"
So none of those sports involve physical contact. They are skills based for the most part. So as already said, it may be different depending on the sport. Are you denying what I posted regarding athletics? Shall we talk about boxing? Wrestling? Rugby? |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Sorry I missed posting during most of the day . . . Family day that ended in a Mega Trivial Pursuits Tournament in which 6 females trounced 6 males 5-1. (just sayin')
Then F1 Racing in which the fems beat the gents 4-2 races.
Go Girls !!!!"
Board game and Playstation? |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"This thread most definitely isn't dead. Now. go do the research, and quit with the stronger/faster notion . . . it's a good job the female athletes don't . . .
Curling.
Archery
Rifle/Shooting
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Gymnastics
Horse Riding
Darts
Shooting Sports
Golf
Dressage
Surprisingly, Weightlifting (for the same reasons as Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming and Running)
And finally. The attitude of those around them.
Go Girls!!!!
So none of those sports involve physical contact. They are skills based for the most part. So as already said, it may be different depending on the sport. Are you denying what I posted regarding athletics? Shall we talk about boxing? Wrestling? Rugby?"
As the OP was Titled . .
Equal Opportunities in Team ****Sports*****
Talk about anything you like in sport but I don't know how many times I have to say it, all sport/s isn't . . .
^^^^^^Strength and Speed^^^^^^
|
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"This thread most definitely isn't dead. Now. go do the research, and quit with the stronger/faster notion . . . it's a good job the female athletes don't . . .
Curling.
Archery
Rifle/Shooting
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Gymnastics
Horse Riding
Darts
Shooting Sports
Golf
Dressage
Surprisingly, Weightlifting (for the same reasons as Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming and Running)
And finally. The attitude of those around them.
Go Girls!!!!"
Gynastics?
I thought the boys had entirely separate disciplines in gymnastics. What gymnastic activity are you referring to where the women beat the men? |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"This thread most definitely isn't dead. Now. go do the research, and quit with the stronger/faster notion . . . it's a good job the female athletes don't . . .
Curling.
Archery
Rifle/Shooting
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Gymnastics
Horse Riding
Darts
Shooting Sports
Golf
Dressage
Surprisingly, Weightlifting (for the same reasons as Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming and Running)
And finally. The attitude of those around them.
Go Girls!!!!
So none of those sports involve physical contact. They are skills based for the most part. So as already said, it may be different depending on the sport. Are you denying what I posted regarding athletics? Shall we talk about boxing? Wrestling? Rugby?
As the OP was Titled . .
Equal Opportunities in Team ****Sports*****
Talk about anything you like in sport but I don't know how many times I have to say it, all sport/s isn't . . .
^^^^^^Strength and Speed^^^^^^
"
Couple of point though…
1. You conflated team and individual sports by talking about your husband running.
2. You initially talked about football and seem to be trying to claim that strength and speed do not matter and it is only about skill. But if a male defender is more physical/stronger than the female striker how will that end? If the male striker can kick the ball harder and faster how will that end? If on the break the male striker is a faster runner than the females how will that end?
You’ve been presented with several points of evidence from different posters that show adult women’s football team get beaten by teenage boys teams.
I am not sure what you are trying to argue or achieve? |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
Well let's see. What was I trying to achieve?
The Title of the OP . . .
Followed by an example that prompted me to think of what team sports women could participate in as male female members . . .
Then . . .
**Surely the time is with us that all girls/women's
*****teams or individuals as members of Teams******
should compete in open tournaments of mixed sexes?**
The husband and I another example of . . .
Obvious really, as long as people didn't get laser focussed of football and running !!!
 |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"If women were the equal of men in sports then why all the fuss about trans men competing in women's sports ?"
Maybe because of this?
**Surely the time is with us that all girls/women's
*****teams or individuals as members of Teams******
should compete in open tournaments of mixed sexes?** |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport."
And the time will come when they are open to mixed sexes.
But first we need people like Toby Green at the grassroots end to get it started and at junior senior level in associations and clubs and controlling bodies. The Law itself is already in place.
Finally. We need the attitude of those nay-sayers to change their tune, akin to Kennedy's 'We choose to go to the moon not because it's easy . . . '
(typos) |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport.
And the time will come when they are open to both sexes
But first we need people like Toby Green at the grassroots end to get it started and at junior senior level in associations and clubs and controlling bodies. The Law itself is already in place.
Finally. we need the attitude of those nay-sayers to change their tune akin to Kennedy's 'We choose to go to the moon not because it easy . . . '
"
The most effective thing will be for women to get to an equal standard of competition. Be very hard to refuse their right to compete then. |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport.
So would you have:
A) Open category (male, female, trans)
B) Female only category"
Can't see an issue with that.
Possibly an argument for a trans only competition but unlikely there would be enough interest. |
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"Well let's see. What was I trying to achieve?
The Title of the OP . . .
Followed by an example that prompted me to think of what team sports women could participate in as male female members . . .
Then . . .
**Surely the time is with us that all girls/women's
*****teams or individuals as members of Teams******
should compete in open tournaments of mixed sexes?**
The husband and I another example of . . .
Obvious really, as long as people didn't get laser focussed of football and running !!!
"
Woman couldn't compete in tennis, golf, rugby, basketball, volleyball, weightlifting, anything involving strength or speed.
Other things that don't require these qualities, such as games of darts and snooker are still male led.
Even sports that require additional elements such as vehicles or horses are still performed best by male competitors.
This is not going to change soon by the look of it.
Mrs x |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport.
So would you have:
A) Open category (male, female, trans)
B) Female only category
Can't see an issue with that.
Possibly an argument for a trans only competition but unlikely there would be enough interest."
I too would be happy with that. If there are female sportspeople who believe they can compete against similarly experienced males, then go for it. But don’t make all females always have to compete with males in ANY sport! |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport.
So would you have:
A) Open category (male, female, trans)
B) Female only category
Can't see an issue with that.
Possibly an argument for a trans only competition but unlikely there would be enough interest.
I too would be happy with that. If there are female sportspeople who believe they can compete against similarly experienced males, then go for it. But don’t make all females always have to compete with males in ANY sport!"
Be foolish to remove women's sports. It would kill female participation.
Which is also the argument for a potential trans competition. |
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"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport.
And the time will come when they are open to mixed sexes.
But first we need people like Toby Green at the grassroots end to get it started and at junior senior level in associations and clubs and controlling bodies. The Law itself is already in place.
Finally. We need the attitude of those nay-sayers to change their tune, akin to Kennedy's 'We choose to go to the moon not because it's easy . . . '
(typos)"
I know you say this is not for issues of trans people in sports, and I'm not going to bang on about it but you are neglecting the opinions of top female athletes who now have to compete against yrans athletes.
Their stance is that they are against it because no matter what transition the trans athlete has gone through, their existing male physiology puts them at an advantage over their female counterparts.
The female athletes are saying it's not fair that trans athletes are allowed to compete against them. So why would they think competing against men would be fair and competitive?
It wouldn't and these elite female athletes are saying this. Surely then know best.
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
Waiting for a sales assistant and thought also . . . To add to the list above.
Sailing
Volley Ball
Beach Volley Ball
Fencing
Bobsleigh
Luge
Ski Jumping
Artistic Swimming
Badminton
Surfing
?
Earlier list . . .
Curling.
Archery
Rifle/Shooting
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Gymnastics
Horse Riding
Darts
Shooting Sports
Golf
Dressage
? |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"But none of the elite females can beat the top elite male athletes, Mrs x"
An elite yachts man will always beat an elite yachts woman - How so?
And Man will always be better at archery than a woman because Robin Hood was a man?
Luge - Gravitons work better on men than women, perhaps?
Men hold rifles steadier than women because there were more cowboys in history than women ones?
Same with Horses I guess?
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Already women are surpassing men.
Curling - Men will always be better because?
Badminton - again why will the men always beat the women?
Darts - co's men have a better aim than women? Must be the Robin Hood paradigm?
Surfing - men choose the better waves?
Golf - Men swing better?
Dressage - Surely women like their horses to be prettier than the mens?
and on and on . . .
Anyways have to go. This was fun lol
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Can't think of a good argument for a men's only competition in any sport.
So would you have:
A) Open category (male, female, trans)
B) Female only category
Can't see an issue with that.
Possibly an argument for a trans only competition but unlikely there would be enough interest.
I too would be happy with that. If there are female sportspeople who believe they can compete against similarly experienced males, then go for it. But don’t make all females always have to compete with males in ANY sport!
Be foolish to remove women's sports. It would kill female participation.
Which is also the argument for a potential trans competition."
People born male who have been through puberty before transitioning should compete in open categories only. Never in female category.
As you say, not sure there will be sufficient numbers to warrant a trans category. |
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"But none of the elite females can beat the top elite male athletes, Mrs x
An elite yachts man will always beat an elite yachts woman - How so?
And Man will always be better at archery than a woman because Robin Hood was a man?
Luge - Gravitons work better on men than women, perhaps?
Men hold rifles steadier than women because there were more cowboys in history than women ones?
Same with Horses I guess?
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Already women are surpassing men.
Curling - Men will always be better because?
Badminton - again why will the men always beat the women?
Darts - co's men have a better aim than women? Must be the Robin Hood paradigm?
Surfing - men choose the better waves?
Golf - Men swing better?
Dressage - Surely women like their horses to be prettier than the mens?
and on and on . . .
Anyways have to go. This was fun lol
"
List the world champions in these sports and see who holds the better world records.
You mention things like sailing, dismissing the importance of strength in crewing sailing boats. You'll find that sailing is an extremely intensive physically, hoisting sails requires great strength and speed.
But look at the sports you mention and see which sex holds the records.
As for any contact or physical sport, men are at an advantage and woman cannot compete equally. As a female I'd love to say that we could but I'm a realist and know we cannot,
Mrs c
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"But none of the elite females can beat the top elite male athletes, Mrs x
An elite yachts man will always beat an elite yachts woman - How so?
And Man will always be better at archery than a woman because Robin Hood was a man?
Luge - Gravitons work better on men than women, perhaps?
Men hold rifles steadier than women because there were more cowboys in history than women ones?
Same with Horses I guess?
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Already women are surpassing men.
Curling - Men will always be better because?
Badminton - again why will the men always beat the women?
Darts - co's men have a better aim than women? Must be the Robin Hood paradigm?
Surfing - men choose the better waves?
Golf - Men swing better?
Dressage - Surely women like their horses to be prettier than the mens?
and on and on . . .
Anyways have to go. This was fun lol
"
Name the sports and the woman that are surpassing men.
You name Badminton, that's a very physical sport and men play it to a higher standard, it's not the pitty, patty stuff you see at your local leisure centre.
So you are going to supply the sports and the female GOATS in these sports to backup your argument, is that OK?
Mrs x |
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By *atEvolution OP Couple 30 weeks ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"But none of the elite females can beat the top elite male athletes, Mrs x
An elite yachts man will always beat an elite yachts woman - How so?
And Man will always be better at archery than a woman because Robin Hood was a man?
Luge - Gravitons work better on men than women, perhaps?
Men hold rifles steadier than women because there were more cowboys in history than women ones?
Same with Horses I guess?
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Already women are surpassing men.
Curling - Men will always be better because?
Badminton - again why will the men always beat the women?
Darts - co's men have a better aim than women? Must be the Robin Hood paradigm?
Surfing - men choose the better waves?
Golf - Men swing better?
Dressage - Surely women like their horses to be prettier than the mens?
and on and on . . .
Anyways have to go. This was fun lol
Name the sports and the woman that are surpassing men.
You name Badminton, that's a very physical sport and men play it to a higher standard, it's not the pitty, patty stuff you see at your local leisure centre.
So you are going to supply the sports and the female GOATS in these sports to backup your argument, is that OK?
Mrs x"
Pitty Patty?
Try 'Olympic Sports' |
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Serena Williams was once asked about playing tennis against Men. She said if she played Andy Murray, he would win 6-0 6-0 in about 10 mins.
Once boys have passed puberty, they have a huge strength advantage over girls.
If an all female rugby team played an all male rugby team, no doubt the ladies would lose seriously heavily and more than likely some career ending injuries.
From a safety point of view, it is ridiculous for the vast majority of sports to be mixed and should be kept as single sex. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Seems like a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist really "
Indeed. What is the benefit to the female sportsperson of competing against men in any sport? What does it actually achieve? |
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"But none of the elite females can beat the top elite male athletes, Mrs x
An elite yachts man will always beat an elite yachts woman - How so?
And Man will always be better at archery than a woman because Robin Hood was a man?
Luge - Gravitons work better on men than women, perhaps?
Men hold rifles steadier than women because there were more cowboys in history than women ones?
Same with Horses I guess?
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Already women are surpassing men.
Curling - Men will always be better because?
Badminton - again why will the men always beat the women?
Darts - co's men have a better aim than women? Must be the Robin Hood paradigm?
Surfing - men choose the better waves?
Golf - Men swing better?
Dressage - Surely women like their horses to be prettier than the mens?
and on and on . . .
Anyways have to go. This was fun lol
Name the sports and the woman that are surpassing men.
You name Badminton, that's a very physical sport and men play it to a higher standard, it's not the pitty, patty stuff you see at your local leisure centre.
So you are going to supply the sports and the female GOATS in these sports to backup your argument, is that OK?
Mrs x
Pitty Patty?
Try 'Olympic Sports' "
So you cannot name any femal sports stars that surpass their male equivalents?
Mrs x |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"Seems like a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist really
Indeed. What is the benefit to the female sportsperson of competing against men in any sport? What does it actually achieve?"
When it happens it'll achieve a great deal. Totally normal for an athlete to want to test themselves against better and better opposition.
For women who are capable there's no good argument for them to not be allowed to compete with men.
The arguments that women might injure themselves if they competed with men are no more relevant than for men doing the same if they're not physically capable. There are plenty of men who'd find themselves in all sorts of difficulty if they attempted to take on elite female fighters/rugby players etc. Same apples to women but providing they're able to compete (by which I mean they're of the necessary standard) they should be allowed to.
The skills based aspects are more complex. The investment and expectations in women's sport are very new in comparison to men's. It'll take time and a change in attitudes before there's a level playing field which would allow us to see how far women could go in things like motor sports and many of the sports already mentioned.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a woman compete in first class men's cricket within the next ten years. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Seems like a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist really
Indeed. What is the benefit to the female sportsperson of competing against men in any sport? What does it actually achieve?
When it happens it'll achieve a great deal. Totally normal for an athlete to want to test themselves against better and better opposition.
For women who are capable there's no good argument for them to not be allowed to compete with men.
The arguments that women might injure themselves if they competed with men are no more relevant than for men doing the same if they're not physically capable. There are plenty of men who'd find themselves in all sorts of difficulty if they attempted to take on elite female fighters/rugby players etc. Same apples to women but providing they're able to compete (by which I mean they're of the necessary standard) they should be allowed to.
The skills based aspects are more complex. The investment and expectations in women's sport are very new in comparison to men's. It'll take time and a change in attitudes before there's a level playing field which would allow us to see how far women could go in things like motor sports and many of the sports already mentioned.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a woman compete in first class men's cricket within the next ten years."
I still do not see the benefit to the female sportsperson. But it will depend on the sport.
IMO what needs to happen is audience figures for female sports need to increase. If they secure a bigger audience then the advertisers and sponsors will follow and then so will investment in the sport. But if the audience is not there then female sports will always play second fiddle to male sports. |
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By *irldnCouple 30 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Seems like a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist really
Indeed. What is the benefit to the female sportsperson of competing against men in any sport? What does it actually achieve?
When it happens it'll achieve a great deal. Totally normal for an athlete to want to test themselves against better and better opposition.
For women who are capable there's no good argument for them to not be allowed to compete with men.
The arguments that women might injure themselves if they competed with men are no more relevant than for men doing the same if they're not physically capable. There are plenty of men who'd find themselves in all sorts of difficulty if they attempted to take on elite female fighters/rugby players etc. Same apples to women but providing they're able to compete (by which I mean they're of the necessary standard) they should be allowed to.
The skills based aspects are more complex. The investment and expectations in women's sport are very new in comparison to men's. It'll take time and a change in attitudes before there's a level playing field which would allow us to see how far women could go in things like motor sports and many of the sports already mentioned.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a woman compete in first class men's cricket within the next ten years.
I still do not see the benefit to the female sportsperson. But it will depend on the sport.
IMO what needs to happen is audience figures for female sports need to increase. If they secure a bigger audience then the advertisers and sponsors will follow and then so will investment in the sport. But if the audience is not there then female sports will always play second fiddle to male sports."
Also where you say…
"The arguments that women might injure themselves if they competed with men are no more relevant than for men doing the same if they're not physically capable. There are plenty of men who'd find themselves in all sorts of difficulty if they attempted to take on elite female fighters/rugby players etc."
That is comparing apples with pears. Of course an elite woman is going to be better than 99% of men but the point is surely to compete against elite men. Otherwise I see no point? You’ll still end up being seeded. You might have the best womens teams in a first division against these 2nd tier men but the best men will still be in the premier league.
Again though, it depends on the sport. As you say, motor racing should level the playing field. |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"I still do not see the benefit to the female sportsperson. But it will depend on the sport.
IMO what needs to happen is audience figures for female sports need to increase. If they secure a bigger audience then the advertisers and sponsors will follow and then so will investment in the sport. But if the audience is not there then female sports will always play second fiddle to male sports."
The point would be for an athlete to prove they're the best in the world vs the best woman in the world.
"Also where you say…
The arguments that women might injure themselves if they competed with men are no more relevant than for men doing the same if they're not physically capable. There are plenty of men who'd find themselves in all sorts of difficulty if they attempted to take on elite female fighters/rugby players etc.
That is comparing apples with pears. Of course an elite woman is going to be better than 99% of men but the point is surely to compete against elite men. Otherwise I see no point? You’ll still end up being seeded. You might have the best womens teams in a first division against these 2nd tier men but the best men will still be in the premier league."
My point there was in response to somebody else who claimed safety would be justification for women to not be permitted to compete with men. |
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"But none of the elite females can beat the top elite male athletes, Mrs x
An elite yachts man will always beat an elite yachts woman - How so?
And Man will always be better at archery than a woman because Robin Hood was a man?
Luge - Gravitons work better on men than women, perhaps?
Men hold rifles steadier than women because there were more cowboys in history than women ones?
Same with Horses I guess?
Ultra Endurance Distance Swimming
Ultra Endurance Distance Running
Already women are surpassing men.
Curling - Men will always be better because?
Badminton - again why will the men always beat the women?
Darts - co's men have a better aim than women? Must be the Robin Hood paradigm?
Surfing - men choose the better waves?
Golf - Men swing better?
Dressage - Surely women like their horses to be prettier than the mens?
and on and on . . .
Anyways have to go. This was fun lol
"
I don't know about all of those but darts has already been proven. Fallon Sherrock played in mixed competitions and beat low ranking players, never beating anyone of note.
Women cannot compete with men in golf if they play from the same tees. Even with closer tees they don't post scores as low as their male counterparts. |
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By (user no longer on site) 30 weeks ago
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"So they finished at the top of Division 3? They beat a load of bad teams?
Let's see if they get to division 2 or the top division first eh?"
and then what?
They get the recognition they deserve from foolycooly on Fabswingers?
Go on girls. How much more motivation do you need?! |
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"Took me awhile but I know we're girls are better than boys in sports. Girls lead the way and I don't think there will ever be a chance for the boys to close the gap in..... cheerleading,
Mrs x"
Cheerleading is a team sport which is mixed. |
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"Took me awhile but I know we're girls are better than boys in sports. Girls lead the way and I don't think there will ever be a chance for the boys to close the gap in..... cheerleading,
Mrs x
Cheerleading is a team sport which is mixed."
Back to the drawing board, spoilsport haha,
Mrs x |
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"Synchronised Swimming, it's getting easier now,
Mrs x
The solo synchronised swimming events don't seem to have much of a fan-base though "
But at least it's a sport woman are better at than men.
Mrs x |
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