FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > How much more can Isreal get away with?
How much more can Isreal get away with?
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"aid drops and now a portable port to deliver more aid into Gaza. Says a lot about American imfluence on Isreal and no doubt still supplying Isreal. Plus two scandanan countries resuming finance to UNRWA.. to the disappointment of some on here. I've never known crimes like this being carried out while the world just let's this happen. Thankfully, Isreal tactics are being scuppered by the Americans on this occasion " Israel will not stop until all the hostages dead or alive are handed back. If people want a picture drawn look on the telly Israel will not stop until this is achieved. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"aid drops and now a portable port to deliver more aid into Gaza. Says a lot about American imfluence on Isreal and no doubt still supplying Isreal. Plus two scandanan countries resuming finance to UNRWA.. to the disappointment of some on here. I've never known crimes like this being carried out while the world just let's this happen. Thankfully, Isreal tactics are being scuppered by the Americans on this occasion Israel will not stop until all the hostages dead or alive are handed back. If people want a picture drawn look on the telly Israel will not stop until this is achieved." This is pretty much it. The Knesset declared war for the first time since the Yom Kippur War in 1973. They are not going to stop. Gaza will be made into a literal hell. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. " Each one is worth 72 virgins. They ain’t coming back. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Each one is worth 72 virgins. They ain’t coming back. " 72 8 year old virgins running around in paradise, they ain't thought it through have they. Lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. " Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. " nobody is ignoring that by condemning the acts of Israel. Murdering innocent Palestinians should be called out. There’s over 30,000 people that they’ve killed in less than 6 months. Palestinian lives should matter JUST AS MUCH. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October?" You should put that question to the ones who orchestrated 7 Oct. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. nobody is ignoring that by condemning the acts of Israel. Murdering innocent Palestinians should be called out. There’s over 30,000 people that they’ve killed in less than 6 months. Palestinian lives should matter JUST AS MUCH. " Simple solution, Hamas hand back the hostages dead or alive. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October? You should put that question to the ones who orchestrated 7 Oct." I'm asking you! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. nobody is ignoring that by condemning the acts of Israel. Murdering innocent Palestinians should be called out. There’s over 30,000 people that they’ve killed in less than 6 months. Palestinian lives should matter JUST AS MUCH. Simple solution, Hamas hand back the hostages dead or alive." This isn't about hamas or whatever.. I'm ssking you if deliberately starving babies, children and adults who had nothing to do with the 7 October is justifiable? And I think your going to agree  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. nobody is ignoring that by condemning the acts of Israel. Murdering innocent Palestinians should be called out. There’s over 30,000 people that they’ve killed in less than 6 months. Palestinian lives should matter JUST AS MUCH. Simple solution, Hamas hand back the hostages dead or alive. This isn't about hamas or whatever.. I'm ssking you if deliberately starving babies, children and adults who had nothing to do with the 7 October is justifiable? And I think your going to agree "Hamas or whatever. It has everything to do with Hamas and their reluctance to release the hostages from oct 7, Israel has not changed its stance on the issue and I dought they will stop until they repatriate every last one of the innocent hostages dead or alive. Are you saying the hostages should not be released. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. " You must not be listening as hostages are mentioned regularly | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. " As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had." So Hammas where never democratically elected? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had. So Hammas where never democratically elected?" Their last election was in 2006, and the Hamas/Fatah joint regime fell apart almost immediately. There have been no elections since. If you want to call that democracy, I guess I can’t stop you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October? You should put that question to the ones who orchestrated 7 Oct." It's at the point now, having watched Israel lie about everything that I'm not even sure the events of October 7th actually happened, there is no real evidence apart from they said so. They bombed hospitals then claimed hammas was there and put up a doctor shift rota as evidence. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October? You should put that question to the ones who orchestrated 7 Oct. It's at the point now, having watched Israel lie about everything that I'm not even sure the events of October 7th actually happened, there is no real evidence apart from they said so. They bombed hospitals then claimed hammas was there and put up a doctor shift rota as evidence. " I don’t see any plausible argument that Oct 7th didn’t happen. Both sides have a responsibility to the innocent people on both sides of the border, to call a ceasefire and commence long-term peace talks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had. So Hammas where never democratically elected? Their last election was in 2006, and the Hamas/Fatah joint regime fell apart almost immediately. There have been no elections since. If you want to call that democracy, I guess I can’t stop you." It was in democratic in 2006 and Hamas's policies towards Israel have not changed. The people of Gaza have had 18 years to get rid of Hamas. Perhaps those in the west who currentlt favour a Putin, Xi, Kim and Trump leadership should reflect on the joys of extreme right wing politics? I do, however, agree that a current election may produce a different result but do not see Hamas holding one. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had." "Credibility" is the quality of being trusted and believed in. Your opinion is therefore what I wrote should not be trusted. You obviously do not agree with me. So, what elements of what I wrote should not be "trusted or believed in"? and why? Democratic elections - I refer you to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had. "Credibility" is the quality of being trusted and believed in. Your opinion is therefore what I wrote should not be trusted. You obviously do not agree with me. So, what elements of what I wrote should not be "trusted or believed in"? and why? Democratic elections - I refer you to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election" There has been no semblance of democracy in Palestine since 2006 at the very latest. Elections there were meant to be held every 4 years. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. " Saying Gazan non combatants instead of innocents when you’re talking about a victims that include children … ok | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If you think the current situation is being fuelled by recent happenings you are deluded. The Israelis have been trying to drive the Palestinians from their own country since halfway through the last century. All this is just a screen for Israel achieving that. The Israeli offensive has been nothing more than globally supported terrorism for nearly a century. " The irony of half the globe coming to Ukraine’s aid with 15 million refugees given safe passage to the west, £100bn in aid, sanctions on Russia etc etc Yet USA supplied the bombs to Israel, UK supplied the spy planes and special forces to identify the targets, and only now after 1.5 million have been made homeless and starving the west supplies some humanitarian aid to those in the largest concentration camp in history. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If you think the current situation is being fuelled by recent happenings you are deluded. The Israelis have been trying to drive the Palestinians from their own country since halfway through the last century. All this is just a screen for Israel achieving that. The Israeli offensive has been nothing more than globally supported terrorism for nearly a century. The irony of half the globe coming to Ukraine’s aid with 15 million refugees given safe passage to the west, £100bn in aid, sanctions on Russia etc etc Yet USA supplied the bombs to Israel, UK supplied the spy planes and special forces to identify the targets, and only now after 1.5 million have been made homeless and starving the west supplies some humanitarian aid to those in the largest concentration camp in history. " The politicians now realise that they are facing a revolt at the next election, the Israelis realise it matters not to them who is in power as they will still get the same deal. so there is no incentive for them to listen to the UK or USA. So to look human they have dropped supplies, to little to late. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are 1,800 million Muslims in the world and 15 million Jews. A ratio if 120 to 1. There are around 7 million Jews in Israel and 1.7 million Muslims. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries. Iran has, for decades armed Hamas. Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, is thus dedicated to the eradication of all Jews. The Jewish Constitution of Israel has no such doctrine against Muslims. If Hamas had succeed in their primary aim on October 7th 2023 of bringing the rest of the Muslim world into a war against the Jews in Israel then Israelis Jews would have been exterminated along with millions from around the world who answered their home land's call for help. In these circumstances the USA, Britain and several other countries, architects of the current situation, would have been dragged into World War 3. Would people take to the streets of Britain with banners proclaiming "From Jerusalem to Tel Aviv let the Jewish people Live!"? The totally lamentable killing of Gazan non-combatatants could be stopped in an instant if Hamas returned the hostages and capitulated. If Israel stopped the fighting Hamas would simply regroup and continue firing rockets into Israel as before. Israel is seeking a solution, in an end justifies the means manner, that eliminates a political group dedicated to their extermination. As soon as you said Hamas was democratically elected, you lost what remained of the little credibility you had. "Credibility" is the quality of being trusted and believed in. Your opinion is therefore what I wrote should not be trusted. You obviously do not agree with me. So, what elements of what I wrote should not be "trusted or believed in"? and why? Democratic elections - I refer you to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election There has been no semblance of democracy in Palestine since 2006 at the very latest. Elections there were meant to be held every 4 years. " I agree but Hamas were elected democratically on a platform that promoted the eradication of the state of Israel. So I am technically correct. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. nobody is ignoring that by condemning the acts of Israel. Murdering innocent Palestinians should be called out. There’s over 30,000 people that they’ve killed in less than 6 months. Palestinian lives should matter JUST AS MUCH. Simple solution, Hamas hand back the hostages dead or alive. This isn't about hamas or whatever.. I'm ssking you if deliberately starving babies, children and adults who had nothing to do with the 7 October is justifiable? And I think your going to agree
Hamas or whatever.
It has everything to do with Hamas and their reluctance to release the hostages from oct 7, Israel has not changed its stance on the issue and I dought they will stop until they repatriate every last one of the innocent hostages dead or alive.
Are you saying the hostages should not be released."Yes they should be released. But you justifying killing innocent men women and and new born babies in the thousands is fucking disgusting. you being unmoved by the horrific scenes of babies starving to death then I've nothing more to say to you! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. nobody is ignoring that by condemning the acts of Israel. Murdering innocent Palestinians should be called out. There’s over 30,000 people that they’ve killed in less than 6 months. Palestinian lives should matter JUST AS MUCH. Simple solution, Hamas hand back the hostages dead or alive. This isn't about hamas or whatever.. I'm ssking you if deliberately starving babies, children and adults who had nothing to do with the 7 October is justifiable? And I think your going to agree
Hamas or whatever.
It has everything to do with Hamas and their reluctance to release the hostages from oct 7, Israel has not changed its stance on the issue and I dought they will stop until they repatriate every last one of the innocent hostages dead or alive.
Are you saying the hostages should not be released.
Yes they should be released.
But you justifying
killing innocent men women and and new born babies in the thousands is fucking disgusting.
you being unmoved by the horrific scenes of babies starving to death then I've nothing more to say to you!
"You are quite emotional aren't you, lay of the fizzy pop. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
". Yes they should be released. But you justifying killing innocent men women and and new born babies in the thousands is fucking disgusting. you being unmoved by the horrific scenes of babies starving to death then I've nothing more to say to you! " Please don't accuse others of holding totally unacceptable views that they in no way support in order to discredit them and their statements. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck around… Find out" Unfortunately on this topic our UK taxes are being used to kill and starve children “”UK conducted 50 spy missions over Gaza for Israel identifying targets”” | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck around… Find out" Have the innocent civilians on both sides fucked around, then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
". Yes they should be released. But you justifying killing innocent men women and and new born babies in the thousands is fucking disgusting. you being unmoved by the horrific scenes of babies starving to death then I've nothing more to say to you! Please don't accuse others of holding totally unacceptable views that they in no way support in order to discredit them and their statements. " Pit the kettle on  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck around… Find out Unfortunately on this topic our UK taxes are being used to kill and starve children “”UK conducted 50 spy missions over Gaza for Israel identifying targets”” "  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Israel now has no way to stop until every Palestinian is dead. So many have been killed that there can never be peace again. Regardless of how the conflict started, Israel is now committed to a path of genocide. The western world looked on and did nothing to stop it while it might have been possible, it is now too late to ever end the conflict." They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust,respect and shared aims. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims. " There won’t be long lasting peace. There are now 1000’s or 100,000 ‘s of people in the area who hate Israel, most of which lives a happy live before all this started. They have helped create future generations of terrorist warlords who will use religion as an excuse to rage war against more innocent people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"aid drops and now a portable port to deliver more aid into Gaza. Says a lot about American imfluence on Isreal and no doubt still supplying Isreal. Plus two scandanan countries resuming finance to UNRWA.. to the disappointment of some on here. I've never known crimes like this being carried out while the world just let's this happen. Thankfully, Isreal tactics are being scuppered by the Americans on this occasion " I can't believe I'm reading this....are you aware of the invasion of Ukraine? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Israel now has no way to stop until every Palestinian is dead. So many have been killed that there can never be peace again. Regardless of how the conflict started, Israel is now committed to a path of genocide. The western world looked on and did nothing to stop it while it might have been possible, it is now too late to ever end the conflict. They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust,respect and shared aims. " I hope your right but fear that although there will be a period of relative peace when this ends, it will flare up again. When you have organizations (both sides) that want their neighbours gone it is hard to see lasting peace. I'm not sure Hamas expected this level of response to their attacks and wonder if they could go back in time would they still have carried out the attacks, knowing what they know now | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Israel now has no way to stop until every Palestinian is dead. So many have been killed that there can never be peace again. Regardless of how the conflict started, Israel is now committed to a path of genocide. The western world looked on and did nothing to stop it while it might have been possible, it is now too late to ever end the conflict. They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust,respect and shared aims. I hope your right but fear that although there will be a period of relative peace when this ends, it will flare up again. When you have organizations (both sides) that want their neighbours gone it is hard to see lasting peace. I'm not sure Hamas expected this level of response to their attacks and wonder if they could go back in time would they still have carried out the attacks, knowing what they know now" This isn't about people, it's about an ideal and you'll never kill the ideal | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims. There won’t be long lasting peace. There are now 1000’s or 100,000 ‘s of people in the area who hate Israel, most of which lives a happy live before all this started. They have helped create future generations of terrorist warlords who will use religion as an excuse to rage war against more innocent people." They said the same in Northern Ireland in the 70’s. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The useful idiots out every weekend walking side by side with extremists singing their chants of hamas and the houthi is only encouraging Hamas and the houthi not to release the innocent hostages or stop the capture of maritime shipping. Why not sing release the hostages at the weekend, I dought anyone will for for of attack." Fear* | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The useful idiots out every weekend walking side by side with extremists singing their chants of hamas and the houthi is only encouraging Hamas and the houthi not to release the innocent hostages or stop the capture of maritime shipping. Why not sing release the hostages at the weekend, I dought anyone will for for of attack." That's because murdering babies by starving them to death is a lot worse | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
". Yes they should be released. But you justifying killing innocent men women and and new born babies in the thousands is fucking disgusting. you being unmoved by the horrific scenes of babies starving to death then I've nothing more to say to you! Please don't accuse others of holding totally unacceptable views that they in no way support in order to discredit them and their statements. " Oh but they do support it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The useful idiots out every weekend walking side by side with extremists singing their chants of hamas and the houthi is only encouraging Hamas and the houthi not to release the innocent hostages or stop the capture of maritime shipping. Why not sing release the hostages at the weekend, I dought anyone will for for of attack. Fear*" Useful idiots supporting mass genocide by a genocidal isreal.! Now I wonder who they are! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go." Exactly this! Some people are so blinkered
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go. Exactly this! Some people are so blinkered
"The ministers of Hamas are hiding in Qatar you Do know this don't you, they ran away and have no intention of releasing the hostages, if the Palestinians release the hostages I am sure Israel will stop searching for them and get out of Gaza by the weekend. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go. Exactly this! Some people are so blinkered
The ministers of Hamas are hiding in Qatar you Do know this don't you, they ran away and have no intention of releasing the hostages, if the Palestinians release the hostages I am sure Israel will stop searching for them and get out of Gaza by the weekend.
"You are deluded, Israel has no intention of leaving Gaza, they will only leave if the yanks pile on massive pressure and we all know that’s not going to happen. Once they have their hostages back there will be a witch hunt and they will finish the act of terror that they began in 1948. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go. Exactly this! Some people are so blinkered
The ministers of Hamas are hiding in Qatar you Do know this don't you, they ran away and have no intention of releasing the hostages, if the Palestinians release the hostages I am sure Israel will stop searching for them and get out of Gaza by the weekend.
You are deluded, Israel has no intention of leaving Gaza, they will only leave if the yanks pile on massive pressure and we all know that’s not going to happen.
Once they have their hostages back there will be a witch hunt and they will finish the act of terror that they began in 1948. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go. Exactly this! Some people are so blinkered
The ministers of Hamas are hiding in Qatar you Do know this don't you, they ran away and have no intention of releasing the hostages, if the Palestinians release the hostages I am sure Israel will stop searching for them and get out of Gaza by the weekend.
"It’s gone on since time immemorial but it’ll be squared up by the weekend. Sure. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims. There won’t be long lasting peace. There are now 1000’s or 100,000 ‘s of people in the area who hate Israel, most of which lives a happy live before all this started. They have helped create future generations of terrorist warlords who will use religion as an excuse to rage war against more innocent people." Israel has turned every Palestinian into Hamas. Every single person in Palestine has now had bombs rained upon them, their homes destroyed, friends and relatives killed. They have been starved. They are held in an open prison where they are continually attacked. Israel has made no attempt to target Hamas, it has targetted every person within Palestine. If England had performed mass slaughter in Eire during the days of the Irish troubles, if England had bombed hospitals in Dublin to try to kill Sinn Fein terrorists, do you think there could ever have been peace? Regardless of how it started, the vast majority of Palestinians were unarmed civilians who have now had everything taken from them. Everything. Hundreds of thousands killed. Imagine if your entire country was totally devastated, rendered uninhabitable, your entire country turned into a prison where you were denied any possibility of exit, your power and water supplies were destroyed, your entire population herded into smaller and smaller areas, all relief efforts were blockaded and your people were starving and dying from disease. Your children or your parents or your friends killed while trying to get medical aid. And all because a small number of terrorists had been hiding in your city. But the invaders had made no attempt to discriminate in their actions, they claimed the "right" to kill absolutely anybody in order to reach their targets. At the end could you say "oh yes, we can all live peacefully now that those terrorists have gone, pity about the 25% of my countrymen that are dead, pity about my house having been bombed, shame that my children were starved to death, that my entire life has been utterly destroyed, but these things happen you know, no hard feelings..." There can now never be a "peaceful future... predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims" between Palestine and Israel. Regardless of who did what to who in the first place. Hamas is guilty of killing and kidn@pping a small number of civilians. Israel is guilty of totally destroying an entire country and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. There may be a surrender, but there will never be peace, and the Israeli government know this. There is no solution other than a final solution, which will probably end up being final for all of us. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does administrative detention count as hostage taking? 2500 held with no charges or trial and 310 who have no right to a trial,should they be classed as hostages?" The difference is both sides know were one set of people are been held, then the flip side only one side know where the other people are been held. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims. There won’t be long lasting peace. There are now 1000’s or 100,000 ‘s of people in the area who hate Israel, most of which lives a happy live before all this started. They have helped create future generations of terrorist warlords who will use religion as an excuse to rage war against more innocent people. Israel has turned every Palestinian into Hamas. Every single person in Palestine has now had bombs rained upon them, their homes destroyed, friends and relatives killed. They have been starved. They are held in an open prison where they are continually attacked. Israel has made no attempt to target Hamas, it has targetted every person within Palestine. If England had performed mass slaughter in Eire during the days of the Irish troubles, if England had bombed hospitals in Dublin to try to kill Sinn Fein terrorists, do you think there could ever have been peace? Regardless of how it started, the vast majority of Palestinians were unarmed civilians who have now had everything taken from them. Everything. Hundreds of thousands killed. Imagine if your entire country was totally devastated, rendered uninhabitable, your entire country turned into a prison where you were denied any possibility of exit, your power and water supplies were destroyed, your entire population herded into smaller and smaller areas, all relief efforts were blockaded and your people were starving and dying from disease. Your children or your parents or your friends killed while trying to get medical aid. And all because a small number of terrorists had been hiding in your city. But the invaders had made no attempt to discriminate in their actions, they claimed the "right" to kill absolutely anybody in order to reach their targets. At the end could you say "oh yes, we can all live peacefully now that those terrorists have gone, pity about the 25% of my countrymen that are dead, pity about my house having been bombed, shame that my children were starved to death, that my entire life has been utterly destroyed, but these things happen you know, no hard feelings..." There can now never be a "peaceful future... predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims" between Palestine and Israel. Regardless of who did what to who in the first place. Hamas is guilty of killing and kidn@pping a small number of civilians. Israel is guilty of totally destroying an entire country and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. There may be a surrender, but there will never be peace, and the Israeli government know this. There is no solution other than a final solution, which will probably end up being final for all of us." Absolutely agree | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does administrative detention count as hostage taking? 2500 held with no charges or trial and 310 who have no right to a trial,should they be classed as hostages? The difference is both sides know were one set of people are been held, then the flip side only one side know where the other people are been held. " that doesnt matter,a hostage is a hostage no matter where they are held,and im sure there are palestinian families that dont know where their loved ones are being held | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does administrative detention count as hostage taking? 2500 held with no charges or trial and 310 who have no right to a trial,should they be classed as hostages? The difference is both sides know were one set of people are been held, then the flip side only one side know where the other people are been held. that doesnt matter,a hostage is a hostage no matter where they are held,and im sure there are palestinian families that dont know where their loved ones are being held" Palestinians held in Israel are held in full view, then you have Israel's held in gaza hidden from view. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Israel now has no way to stop until every Palestinian is dead. So many have been killed that there can never be peace again. Regardless of how the conflict started, Israel is now committed to a path of genocide. The western world looked on and did nothing to stop it while it might have been possible, it is now too late to ever end the conflict. They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust,respect and shared aims. " Will Isreal be dropping the laws governing Palestinian and Arab people to help with this "peace"? There's a good 60 odd laws stopping certain things like Arab people being able to own certain land, Arab people not being able to marry a Jew, arab children not being able to go to certain schools etc. Oddly similar to another set of laws that were forced upon the Jewish people right before their own genocide before the Israel state even existed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They will stop as soon as Hamas is eradicated or capitulates. Peace will follow, it always does, and hopefully lessons learnt will lead to a far more peaceful future. One predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims. There won’t be long lasting peace. There are now 1000’s or 100,000 ‘s of people in the area who hate Israel, most of which lives a happy live before all this started. They have helped create future generations of terrorist warlords who will use religion as an excuse to rage war against more innocent people. Israel has turned every Palestinian into Hamas. Every single person in Palestine has now had bombs rained upon them, their homes destroyed, friends and relatives killed. They have been starved. They are held in an open prison where they are continually attacked. Israel has made no attempt to target Hamas, it has targetted every person within Palestine. If England had performed mass slaughter in Eire during the days of the Irish troubles, if England had bombed hospitals in Dublin to try to kill Sinn Fein terrorists, do you think there could ever have been peace? Regardless of how it started, the vast majority of Palestinians were unarmed civilians who have now had everything taken from them. Everything. Hundreds of thousands killed. Imagine if your entire country was totally devastated, rendered uninhabitable, your entire country turned into a prison where you were denied any possibility of exit, your power and water supplies were destroyed, your entire population herded into smaller and smaller areas, all relief efforts were blockaded and your people were starving and dying from disease. Your children or your parents or your friends killed while trying to get medical aid. And all because a small number of terrorists had been hiding in your city. But the invaders had made no attempt to discriminate in their actions, they claimed the "right" to kill absolutely anybody in order to reach their targets. At the end could you say "oh yes, we can all live peacefully now that those terrorists have gone, pity about the 25% of my countrymen that are dead, pity about my house having been bombed, shame that my children were starved to death, that my entire life has been utterly destroyed, but these things happen you know, no hard feelings..." There can now never be a "peaceful future... predicated on mutual trust, respect and shared aims" between Palestine and Israel. Regardless of who did what to who in the first place. Hamas is guilty of killing and kidn@pping a small number of civilians. Israel is guilty of totally destroying an entire country and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. There may be a surrender, but there will never be peace, and the Israeli government know this. There is no solution other than a final solution, which will probably end up being final for all of us. " Sadly I believe you are correct and I cannot see a peaceful future for either side on this conflict, not now, not ever (for many generations at least). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does administrative detention count as hostage taking? 2500 held with no charges or trial and 310 who have no right to a trial,should they be classed as hostages? The difference is both sides know were one set of people are been held, then the flip side only one side know where the other people are been held. that doesnt matter,a hostage is a hostage no matter where they are held,and im sure there are palestinian families that dont know where their loved ones are being held Palestinians held in Israel are held in full view, then you have Israel's held in gaza hidden from view." Israel has effectively been holding all Palestinians in Gaza as prisoners for more than twenty years. Israel has been illegally occupying Palestine for over 50 years. Israel has been increasing the level of oppression ever more for years. Hamas have home made rockets and shovels to dig tunnels, the Israeli government have nuclear weapons and unlimited funds. So who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed? Which side can initiate peace? Because all Palestine can see now is an overwhelming surrounding force that just kills more of them every day no matter what they do. Hamas was wrong, but if you kick any dog for long enough it will bite. And Israel's response? To start indiscriminately killing the entire canine species. Israel escalated a skirmish into all out war. A war that will only end when one side or the other is totally dead. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Israel escalated a skirmish into all out war. A war that will only end when one side or the other is totally dead." It does rather appear that way. I'm fully behind "proportionate" action, but it must just be that. Proportionate. Specific. Targeted. This has spread so far out of proportionality that I fear it's now in to genocide/cleansing territory. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does administrative detention count as hostage taking? 2500 held with no charges or trial and 310 who have no right to a trial,should they be classed as hostages? The difference is both sides know were one set of people are been held, then the flip side only one side know where the other people are been held. that doesnt matter,a hostage is a hostage no matter where they are held,and im sure there are palestinian families that dont know where their loved ones are being held Palestinians held in Israel are held in full view, then you have Israel's held in gaza hidden from view." So every palestinian hostage in isreal,their families know where they are being held ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Israel escalated a skirmish into all out war. A war that will only end when one side or the other is totally dead. It does rather appear that way. I'm fully behind "proportionate" action, but it must just be that. Proportionate. Specific. Targeted. This has spread so far out of proportionality that I fear it's now in to genocide/cleansing territory." Why proportionate action? At the start of the Israelie offensive it was stated that Israel will eradicate Hamas and the tunnels beneath Gaza they inhabit. Sounds fair play to me, after the October atrocities that Hamas carried out. Hamas carried out the Oct 2023 attack, hoping that Iran, Iraq, Egypt etc. Would back them up and start a war that would wipe Israel out. Their stated aim has always been never to live side by side with Israel but to take Israel and wipe out the Jews. They fucked up big time it seems. Fairly certain that Israel will continue until nothing is left of Gaza. That way, they might think long and hard before trying to carry out another atrocity such as Oct. 2023. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go." There has never, in all history, been a Palestinian state. The state of Israel was recognised in 1948 by the UN whilst the other areas were administrated by Jordan and Egypt until, in 1967, they were lost to Israel in a war. So marching in support of Palestine, per se, is like marching in support of Narnia. There is however a group of Arab people who identify as Palestinians. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go. There has never, in all history, been a Palestinian state. The state of Israel was recognised in 1948 by the UN whilst the other areas were administrated by Jordan and Egypt until, in 1967, they were lost to Israel in a war. So marching in support of Palestine, per se, is like marching in support of Narnia. There is however a group of Arab people who identify as Palestinians. " Who are being murdered by a murderous genocidal state who have been clear that they intend to kill or displace them all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" … They fucked up big time it seems. Fairly certain that Israel will continue until nothing is left of Gaza. That way, they might think long and hard before trying to carry out another atrocity such as Oct. 2023. " This is absolutely fucking disgusting. Ew. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Marching in support of Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. I’m not sure how many people need that spelling out to them, but there we go. There has never, in all history, been a Palestinian state. The state of Israel was recognised in 1948 by the UN whilst the other areas were administrated by Jordan and Egypt until, in 1967, they were lost to Israel in a war. So marching in support of Palestine, per se, is like marching in support of Narnia. There is however a group of Arab people who identify as Palestinians. Who are being murdered by a murderous genocidal state who have been clear that they intend to kill or displace them all. " We are all aware that the political group that runs Gaza (Hamas) has in its constitution the eradication of all Jews, world wide. Whilst I recognise, and regret, that in practice Israel is killing Palestinians in Gaza, where is it stated that the Israelis aim is the genocide of the Palestinians? Israel has nuclear weapons. Surely they would just drop 2 or 3 in Gaza rather than risk the lives of Israelis troops if they just wanted to obliterate the Palestinians? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I need to say from the beginning that all innocent lives lost in this region is a terrible tragedy. But it would appear that blame for this conflict flows in one direction in this debate. It's said that Israel wants to commit genocide. But Hamas are quite open about saying they want to wipe every Jew from Israel. It's only because Hamas doesn't have the military might that they haven't done so. Israel does have the military might but hasn't committed genocide during its recent history. I do not agree with how Israel have responded but that doesn't mean they are wrong. If you do wrong against anyone you run the risk of retaliation. If the retaliation is greater than you'd thought it was going to be, then maybe you should think twice before committing a wrong. I think it's fundamentally different for a group to go and kill innocents directly whilst another group tries to kill terrorists but innocents are killed. It's very sad but this is what happens in armed conflicts. Hamas did what they did without warning, Israel said how they would respond and gave warnings. The issue of 'human shields' seems like a tactic for Hamas, I'm sure Israel would evacuate under similar conditions. Like I said initially ALL innocent lives lost is a terrible tragedy but to leave your civilians in harms way, when you know it is coming seems callous to me. Mrs x" I think Israel have proved their point. It’s time for ceasefire. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I need to say from the beginning that all innocent lives lost in this region is a terrible tragedy. But it would appear that blame for this conflict flows in one direction in this debate. It's said that Israel wants to commit genocide. But Hamas are quite open about saying they want to wipe every Jew from Israel. It's only because Hamas doesn't have the military might that they haven't done so. Israel does have the military might but hasn't committed genocide during its recent history. I do not agree with how Israel have responded but that doesn't mean they are wrong. If you do wrong against anyone you run the risk of retaliation. If the retaliation is greater than you'd thought it was going to be, then maybe you should think twice before committing a wrong. I think it's fundamentally different for a group to go and kill innocents directly whilst another group tries to kill terrorists but innocents are killed. It's very sad but this is what happens in armed conflicts. Hamas did what they did without warning, Israel said how they would respond and gave warnings. The issue of 'human shields' seems like a tactic for Hamas, I'm sure Israel would evacuate under similar conditions. Like I said initially ALL innocent lives lost is a terrible tragedy but to leave your civilians in harms way, when you know it is coming seems callous to me. Mrs x I think Israel have proved their point. It’s time for ceasefire." You might be right but it's against a background of a genocidal claim from Hamas. They have stated they won't stop until every Jew is wiped from the face of Palestine. So unfortunately I think a ceasefire would only serve to allow Hamas to regroup and start again, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When the elections come do not forget how our politicians supported Israel supported the murder of thousands of people do not vote for those who support mass murder. Withhold your vote it is the only way they will learn." How is it mass murder? And if that's the case why is it only Israel that has committed this? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I need to say from the beginning that all innocent lives lost in this region is a terrible tragedy. But it would appear that blame for this conflict flows in one direction in this debate. It's said that Israel wants to commit genocide. But Hamas are quite open about saying they want to wipe every Jew from Israel. It's only because Hamas doesn't have the military might that they haven't done so. Israel does have the military might but hasn't committed genocide during its recent history. I do not agree with how Israel have responded but that doesn't mean they are wrong. If you do wrong against anyone you run the risk of retaliation. If the retaliation is greater than you'd thought it was going to be, then maybe you should think twice before committing a wrong. I think it's fundamentally different for a group to go and kill innocents directly whilst another group tries to kill terrorists but innocents are killed. It's very sad but this is what happens in armed conflicts. Hamas did what they did without warning, Israel said how they would respond and gave warnings. The issue of 'human shields' seems like a tactic for Hamas, I'm sure Israel would evacuate under similar conditions. Like I said initially ALL innocent lives lost is a terrible tragedy but to leave your civilians in harms way, when you know it is coming seems callous to me. Mrs x I think Israel have proved their point. It’s time for ceasefire.You might be right but it's against a background of a genocidal claim from Hamas. They have stated they won't stop until every Jew is wiped from the face of Palestine. So unfortunately I think a ceasefire would only serve to allow Hamas to regroup and start again, Mrs x" The answer to this, like the answer to all conflicts, lies around a table. Diplomacy. If not, people be here in a hundred years time still arguing the same case. You cannot destroy an ideology with bombs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I need to say from the beginning that all innocent lives lost in this region is a terrible tragedy. But it would appear that blame for this conflict flows in one direction in this debate. It's said that Israel wants to commit genocide. But Hamas are quite open about saying they want to wipe every Jew from Israel. It's only because Hamas doesn't have the military might that they haven't done so. Israel does have the military might but hasn't committed genocide during its recent history. I do not agree with how Israel have responded but that doesn't mean they are wrong. If you do wrong against anyone you run the risk of retaliation. If the retaliation is greater than you'd thought it was going to be, then maybe you should think twice before committing a wrong. I think it's fundamentally different for a group to go and kill innocents directly whilst another group tries to kill terrorists but innocents are killed. It's very sad but this is what happens in armed conflicts. Hamas did what they did without warning, Israel said how they would respond and gave warnings. The issue of 'human shields' seems like a tactic for Hamas, I'm sure Israel would evacuate under similar conditions. Like I said initially ALL innocent lives lost is a terrible tragedy but to leave your civilians in harms way, when you know it is coming seems callous to me. Mrs x I think Israel have proved their point. It’s time for ceasefire.You might be right but it's against a background of a genocidal claim from Hamas. They have stated they won't stop until every Jew is wiped from the face of Palestine. So unfortunately I think a ceasefire would only serve to allow Hamas to regroup and start again, Mrs x The answer to this, like the answer to all conflicts, lies around a table. Diplomacy. If not, people be here in a hundred years time still arguing the same case. You cannot destroy an ideology with bombs. " I agree with you wholeheartedly but this issue has been going on for thousands of years. Whilst one side has genocide as its aim there cannot be peace I believe. It's a tragic position, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly in New York 13 November, 1974" Do Freedom fighters attack civilians or is that terrorism? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Justifying the murder of 30,000 people and displacement of even more. Starving people. Bombing refugee camps. Murdering children. Yeah this place is fucked. Completely fucked. " Deep it. A lot of the people that have been killed weren’t even alive when there was last an election. It’s simple. This cannot be allowed to go on. And anyone willing to turn a blind eye to reality because of hypotheticals is actually in favour of what is essentially going to be a genocide. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Justifying the murder of 30,000 people and displacement of even more. Starving people. Bombing refugee camps. Murdering children. Yeah this place is fucked. Completely fucked. " It is fucked but it happens in most conflicts. What Hamas has done is terrorism, Israel is responding to this. Don't agree with how they are doing this but its not terrorism, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Justifying the murder of 30,000 people and displacement of even more. Starving people. Bombing refugee camps. Murdering children. Yeah this place is fucked. Completely fucked. Deep it. A lot of the people that have been killed weren’t even alive when there was last an election. It’s simple. This cannot be allowed to go on. And anyone willing to turn a blind eye to reality because of hypotheticals is actually in favour of what is essentially going to be a genocide. " It's not genocide though. It's a terrible waste of life but genocide is not the aim of Israel. Hamas on the other side have it as a direct aim in their constitution. Israel are a mighty military power, with total air dominance over Gaza, if they wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth it would be fairly easy for them. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly in New York 13 November, 1974Do Freedom fighters attack civilians or is that terrorism? Mrs x" Do they not have a right to also defend themselves against incarceration and control of movement, and their lands forcibly taken from them. 100,000+ Hectares of land appropriated by Israel from Palestinians since 1967 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When the elections come do not forget how our politicians supported Israel supported the murder of thousands of people do not vote for those who support mass murder. Withhold your vote it is the only way they will learn.How is it mass murder? And if that's the case why is it only Israel that has committed this? Mrs x" 50 Years of Settlements 600,000+ Jewish Israeli settlers living on occupied Palestinian land 100,000+ Hectares of land appropriated by Israel from Palestinians since 1967 50,000 Homes and structures demolished by Israel in the OPT over the past 50 years Amnesty international. All this now dwarfed. 31000 killed, 72000 injured, 19000 orphans 500,000 homes destroyed 1.5 million displaced and starving on the largest concentration camp of the globe | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Justifying the murder of 30,000 people and displacement of even more. Starving people. Bombing refugee camps. Murdering children. Yeah this place is fucked. Completely fucked. Deep it. A lot of the people that have been killed weren’t even alive when there was last an election. It’s simple. This cannot be allowed to go on. And anyone willing to turn a blind eye to reality because of hypotheticals is actually in favour of what is essentially going to be a genocide. It's not genocide though. It's a terrible waste of life but genocide is not the aim of Israel. Hamas on the other side have it as a direct aim in their constitution. Israel are a mighty military power, with total air dominance over Gaza, if they wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth it would be fairly easy for them. Mrs x" You’re telling me about Hamas but Israel are murdering innocent people and they’re forcibly displacing them. Someone else said this- just because they could nuke them doesn’t mean they would use that to achieve their genocidal aims. Especially when people within their government and military have talked about wanting to take and rebuild Gaza. Harder on nuclear wasteland. It is genocidal. They’re indiscriminately txrturing and murdering Palestinian people. There’s no end in sight beyond the complete expulsion or death of all of the people in Gaza. Let’s call it what it is. It’s fucking abhorrent and it’s the actions of a state as well. Supported by so many other states despite many people wanting it to stop. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly in New York 13 November, 1974Do Freedom fighters attack civilians or is that terrorism? Mrs x Do they not have a right to also defend themselves against incarceration and control of movement, and their lands forcibly taken from them. 100,000+ Hectares of land appropriated by Israel from Palestinians since 1967" Everyone has a right to defend themselves but that doesn't extend to breaking into homes, in the dead of night, taking civilian hostages, murdering innocents. That's not defence, thats terrorism. Israel didn't just wake up in 1967 and think let's take some land here. After being attacked by other sovereign states they fought a war, won and claimed land to stop the expansionist and genocidal policies of these sovereign states. Like i said before if you are not prepared for the level of retribution you recieve for attacking someone, then dont attack in the first place, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both "I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me. This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. "But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x"Well, they have killed over 30,000 people. So they should be. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x"They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
Well, they have killed over 30,000 people. So they should be. "So where Britain or Germany murderers in WW2? The numbers of deaths does not make someone a murderer. Israel is responding to attacks from Hamas. As a sovereign state they have a right to respond how the see as appropriate. Now I've said before I don't agree with how they have responded but that's up to them. They have attacked sites where they believe Hamas is located, given warnings beforehand but tragically civilians have been killed. This is not murder, its terrible but not murder. Hamas, on the other hand attacked non combatants, civilians with the aims of taking hostages and killing some of them. This is murder, no other way to describe it. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
Well, they have killed over 30,000 people. So they should be. So where Britain or Germany murderers in WW2?
The numbers of deaths does not make someone a murderer. Israel is responding to attacks from Hamas. As a sovereign state they have a right to respond how the see as appropriate. Now I've said before I don't agree with how they have responded but that's up to them. They have attacked sites where they believe Hamas is located, given warnings beforehand but tragically civilians have been killed. This is not murder, its terrible but not murder.
Hamas, on the other hand attacked non combatants, civilians with the aims of taking hostages and killing some of them. This is murder, no other way to describe it.
Mrs x"
Comparing it to world war 2?
I’m out | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x"That’s because Israel are the aggressors, they have been systematically trying to clear Gaza and other areas of Palestinian occupation since they first embarked on an insurgence that dispossessed the Palestinians of over three quarters of the land they were occupying outside the Israeli borders, hundreds of thousands loosing their homes and lives, back in 1948. Ever since they have been constantly chipping away taking more and more, is it any surprise that factions have formed to resist this, Hamas is a relatively new organisation dating from the late 80’s, branded terrorists, when the real terrorists are the Israelis, who have been sanctioned to commit their insidious acts by the USA who are shamefully complicit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?"I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties. 30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder. Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain. Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city. The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end. So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers? Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine. Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is. Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai. Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder. It's tragic for civilians on both sides, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those who are programmed will never see what is really happening, only what the programmer wants them to see." To be fair that applies to both sides of the argument! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city." The historian in me cannot let that pass without correction as that is a gross exaggeration. Throughout the whole of WW2 the best estimate is that between 300,000-600,000 German civilians were killed by allied (UK & US) bombing raids. Not 5 million in a couple of nights! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
That’s because Israel are the aggressors, they have been systematically trying to clear Gaza and other areas of Palestinian occupation since they first embarked on an insurgence that dispossessed the Palestinians of over three quarters of the land they were occupying outside the Israeli borders, hundreds of thousands loosing their homes and lives, back in 1948.
Ever since they have been constantly chipping away taking more and more, is it any surprise that factions have formed to resist this, Hamas is a relatively new organisation dating from the late 80’s, branded terrorists, when the real terrorists are the Israelis, who have been sanctioned to commit their insidious acts by the USA who are shamefully complicit. "The UN created Israel in 1948, there was no such land as Palestine. Israel has been occupied by Israelites since the time of Rameses II, thousands of years ago. You can name Jewish Kings from that period. They were expelled by the Romans but even then no Palestinian state arose. The area was controlled by a whole host of empires until the British were given control during the British Mandate. The Jews never deposed anyone. As for chipping away at Palestinian lands, you failed to mention the wars in 1967, were Israel was attacked and kept portions of land to stop genocidal attempts by other nations attempts. Israel was attack, not the aggressor. You fail to mention the 5 offers of land that Palestinians refused because the offers did not come with a clause to wipe the Jews from the face of Palenstine. Hamas only took up their struggle when the previous terrorist organisation, Fatah, was not seen as radical enough. I suppose you think it's appropriate that Palestinians are paid to kill civilian Jews by Hamas and others, is that OK? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city. The historian in me cannot let that pass without correction as that is a gross exaggeration. Throughout the whole of WW2 the best estimate is that between 300,000-600,000 German civilians were killed by allied (UK & US) bombing raids. Not 5 million in a couple of nights!" I apologise if I have this figure wrong but I knew it was a figure significantly higher than 30,000. I'm just pointing out that what are horrendous acts are considered acceptable in times of conflict. Hirosimha and Nagasaki are the worst example of this but because of the surrounding circumstances its not considered murder. I apologise again for the in correct figures I gave. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those who are programmed will never see what is really happening, only what the programmer wants them to see. To be fair that applies to both sides of the argument!" I agree, it's called confirmation bias. In addition, if you try, however briefly, to stand in the middle you get attacked by both sides.  Social media is where knee jerk reactions go to regroup. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x"So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
That’s because Israel are the aggressors, they have been systematically trying to clear Gaza and other areas of Palestinian occupation since they first embarked on an insurgence that dispossessed the Palestinians of over three quarters of the land they were occupying outside the Israeli borders, hundreds of thousands loosing their homes and lives, back in 1948.
Ever since they have been constantly chipping away taking more and more, is it any surprise that factions have formed to resist this, Hamas is a relatively new organisation dating from the late 80’s, branded terrorists, when the real terrorists are the Israelis, who have been sanctioned to commit their insidious acts by the USA who are shamefully complicit. The UN created Israel in 1948, there was no such land as Palestine. Israel has been occupied by Israelites since the time of Rameses II, thousands of years ago. You can name Jewish Kings from that period. They were expelled by the Romans but even then no Palestinian state arose. The area was controlled by a whole host of empires until the British were given control during the British Mandate.
The Jews never deposed anyone.
As for chipping away at Palestinian lands, you failed to mention the wars in 1967, were Israel was attacked and kept portions of land to stop genocidal attempts by other nations attempts.
Israel was attack, not the aggressor.
You fail to mention the 5 offers of land that Palestinians refused because the offers did not come with a clause to wipe the Jews from the face of Palenstine.
Hamas only took up their struggle when the previous terrorist organisation, Fatah, was not seen as radical enough.
I suppose you think it's appropriate that Palestinians are paid to kill civilian Jews by Hamas and others, is that OK?
Mrs x"The country of Israel was sanctioned by the UN and given clear and defining borders. The area Palestinians were occupying was clearly outside this. Because the UN did not see fit to ( no doubt through US pressures) afford the Palestinians the same rights , when the British withdrew and left the running of this area of occupation to Jordan and other neighbours, the Israelis tried to systematically clear the area of the Palestinians and forcing them onto the small areas they now occupy, and they have continued to try to clear the area using any number of smoke screen excuses. The notion that Israel is some victim in all this is farcical. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?"If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area. Only those who are programmed will believe. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
Well, they have killed over 30,000 people. So they should be. So where Britain or Germany murderers in WW2?
The numbers of deaths does not make someone a murderer. Israel is responding to attacks from Hamas. As a sovereign state they have a right to respond how the see as appropriate. Now I've said before I don't agree with how they have responded but that's up to them. They have attacked sites where they believe Hamas is located, given warnings beforehand but tragically civilians have been killed. This is not murder, its terrible but not murder.
Hamas, on the other hand attacked non combatants, civilians with the aims of taking hostages and killing some of them. This is murder, no other way to describe it.
Mrs x
Comparing it to world war 2?
I’m out "I'm not comparing it to WW2. I'm just pointing out that in conflict, unfortunately, civilians die. I could have said Rwanda, Yemen, the Kurdish, it was just an example of that, not comparing conflicts in anyway. Just saying the the number of deaths does not equate to murder, its the reason behind it. Hamas doesn't seen to be getting as much condemnation as Israel. Although Hamas actions are objectively murder. I'm not saying it's you, but it seems on here that religion and prejudice surrounding it is coming to the fore. Before anyone says anything, I'm an ex-catholic Irish girl who has suffered loss on religious grounds. Like I said all civilian deaths are tragic and wrong, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe."Not programmed but I'm aware it's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to hide military targets behind civilians. Israel even warned them they were going to do what they did. Unlike those poor individuals, taken or killed, by Hamas including babies, with no military aim. They also get paid by Hamas for each Jew they kill, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.Not programmed but I'm aware it's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to hide military targets behind civilians. Israel even warned them they were going to do what they did. Unlike those poor individuals, taken or killed, by Hamas including babies, with no military aim.
They also get paid by Hamas for each Jew they kill,
Mrs x"Only those who are programmed would answer this post. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
That’s because Israel are the aggressors, they have been systematically trying to clear Gaza and other areas of Palestinian occupation since they first embarked on an insurgence that dispossessed the Palestinians of over three quarters of the land they were occupying outside the Israeli borders, hundreds of thousands loosing their homes and lives, back in 1948.
Ever since they have been constantly chipping away taking more and more, is it any surprise that factions have formed to resist this, Hamas is a relatively new organisation dating from the late 80’s, branded terrorists, when the real terrorists are the Israelis, who have been sanctioned to commit their insidious acts by the USA who are shamefully complicit. The UN created Israel in 1948, there was no such land as Palestine. Israel has been occupied by Israelites since the time of Rameses II, thousands of years ago. You can name Jewish Kings from that period. They were expelled by the Romans but even then no Palestinian state arose. The area was controlled by a whole host of empires until the British were given control during the British Mandate.
The Jews never deposed anyone.
As for chipping away at Palestinian lands, you failed to mention the wars in 1967, were Israel was attacked and kept portions of land to stop genocidal attempts by other nations attempts.
Israel was attack, not the aggressor.
You fail to mention the 5 offers of land that Palestinians refused because the offers did not come with a clause to wipe the Jews from the face of Palenstine.
Hamas only took up their struggle when the previous terrorist organisation, Fatah, was not seen as radical enough.
I suppose you think it's appropriate that Palestinians are paid to kill civilian Jews by Hamas and others, is that OK?
Mrs x
The country of Israel was sanctioned by the UN and given clear and defining borders.
The area Palestinians were occupying was clearly outside this.
Because the UN did not see fit to ( no doubt through US pressures) afford the Palestinians the same rights , when the British withdrew and left the running of this area of occupation to Jordan and other neighbours, the Israelis tried to systematically clear the area of the Palestinians and forcing them onto the small areas they now occupy, and they have continued to try to clear the area using any number of smoke screen excuses.
The notion that Israel is some victim in all this is farcical. "The two state solution was proposed by the League of Nations, years before the UN. So there was always a plan for two states. You didn't mention why Palestinians refused 5 offers of land since 1948. These offers coming from Israel and others, some with much larger land than was previously offered. Because they will never accept this whilst a single Jew remains, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.Not programmed but I'm aware it's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to hide military targets behind civilians. Israel even warned them they were going to do what they did. Unlike those poor individuals, taken or killed, by Hamas including babies, with no military aim.
They also get paid by Hamas for each Jew they kill,
Mrs x
Only those who are programmed would answer this post."That's quite funny, considering your answer, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
That’s because Israel are the aggressors, they have been systematically trying to clear Gaza and other areas of Palestinian occupation since they first embarked on an insurgence that dispossessed the Palestinians of over three quarters of the land they were occupying outside the Israeli borders, hundreds of thousands loosing their homes and lives, back in 1948.
Ever since they have been constantly chipping away taking more and more, is it any surprise that factions have formed to resist this, Hamas is a relatively new organisation dating from the late 80’s, branded terrorists, when the real terrorists are the Israelis, who have been sanctioned to commit their insidious acts by the USA who are shamefully complicit. The UN created Israel in 1948, there was no such land as Palestine. Israel has been occupied by Israelites since the time of Rameses II, thousands of years ago. You can name Jewish Kings from that period. They were expelled by the Romans but even then no Palestinian state arose. The area was controlled by a whole host of empires until the British were given control during the British Mandate.
The Jews never deposed anyone.
As for chipping away at Palestinian lands, you failed to mention the wars in 1967, were Israel was attacked and kept portions of land to stop genocidal attempts by other nations attempts.
Israel was attack, not the aggressor.
You fail to mention the 5 offers of land that Palestinians refused because the offers did not come with a clause to wipe the Jews from the face of Palenstine.
Hamas only took up their struggle when the previous terrorist organisation, Fatah, was not seen as radical enough.
I suppose you think it's appropriate that Palestinians are paid to kill civilian Jews by Hamas and others, is that OK?
Mrs x
The country of Israel was sanctioned by the UN and given clear and defining borders.
The area Palestinians were occupying was clearly outside this.
Because the UN did not see fit to ( no doubt through US pressures) afford the Palestinians the same rights , when the British withdrew and left the running of this area of occupation to Jordan and other neighbours, the Israelis tried to systematically clear the area of the Palestinians and forcing them onto the small areas they now occupy, and they have continued to try to clear the area using any number of smoke screen excuses.
The notion that Israel is some victim in all this is farcical. The two state solution was proposed by the League of Nations, years before the UN.
So there was always a plan for two states. You didn't mention why Palestinians refused 5 offers of land since 1948. These offers coming from Israel and others, some with much larger land than was previously offered.
Because they will never accept this whilst a single Jew remains,
Mrs x"The very basic and simple fact remains, Israel was created, the Jewish peoples had been promised this and so it came to be, with clearly defined borders, they chose to go beyond those borders in a blatant and unapologetic act, to actively dispossess the Palestinian people of the land they were occupying. You have articulated your position clearly and uncompromisingly as I hope have I, but we are now starting to go around in a circle, we could probably fill the rest of the thread if we chose to carry on. I have read and understood your position and the grounds that you have given for having that position, whilst acknowledging your highlighting of specific atrocities (eg payment for assassination) I cannot agree with your overall conclusions and therefore feel we have reached an impasse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas’s aims are one thing. I’m not supportive of them. I’ve never said I was. But why does that mean we have to completely ignore what Israel are *actually* doing? Why are people incapable of condemning both I have said I don't agree with how Israel are responding but they were attacked not me.
This has happened since men first attacked each other but here it seems to be that Israel are condemned in the main.
Mrs x
That’s because Israel are the aggressors, they have been systematically trying to clear Gaza and other areas of Palestinian occupation since they first embarked on an insurgence that dispossessed the Palestinians of over three quarters of the land they were occupying outside the Israeli borders, hundreds of thousands loosing their homes and lives, back in 1948.
Ever since they have been constantly chipping away taking more and more, is it any surprise that factions have formed to resist this, Hamas is a relatively new organisation dating from the late 80’s, branded terrorists, when the real terrorists are the Israelis, who have been sanctioned to commit their insidious acts by the USA who are shamefully complicit. The UN created Israel in 1948, there was no such land as Palestine. Israel has been occupied by Israelites since the time of Rameses II, thousands of years ago. You can name Jewish Kings from that period. They were expelled by the Romans but even then no Palestinian state arose. The area was controlled by a whole host of empires until the British were given control during the British Mandate.
The Jews never deposed anyone.
As for chipping away at Palestinian lands, you failed to mention the wars in 1967, were Israel was attacked and kept portions of land to stop genocidal attempts by other nations attempts.
Israel was attack, not the aggressor.
You fail to mention the 5 offers of land that Palestinians refused because the offers did not come with a clause to wipe the Jews from the face of Palenstine.
Hamas only took up their struggle when the previous terrorist organisation, Fatah, was not seen as radical enough.
I suppose you think it's appropriate that Palestinians are paid to kill civilian Jews by Hamas and others, is that OK?
Mrs x
The country of Israel was sanctioned by the UN and given clear and defining borders.
The area Palestinians were occupying was clearly outside this.
Because the UN did not see fit to ( no doubt through US pressures) afford the Palestinians the same rights , when the British withdrew and left the running of this area of occupation to Jordan and other neighbours, the Israelis tried to systematically clear the area of the Palestinians and forcing them onto the small areas they now occupy, and they have continued to try to clear the area using any number of smoke screen excuses.
The notion that Israel is some victim in all this is farcical. The two state solution was proposed by the League of Nations, years before the UN.
So there was always a plan for two states. You didn't mention why Palestinians refused 5 offers of land since 1948. These offers coming from Israel and others, some with much larger land than was previously offered.
Because they will never accept this whilst a single Jew remains,
Mrs x
The very basic and simple fact remains, Israel was created, the Jewish peoples had been promised this and so it came to be, with clearly defined borders, they chose to go beyond those borders in a blatant and unapologetic act, to actively dispossess the Palestinian people of the land they were occupying.
You have articulated your position clearly and uncompromisingly as I hope have I, but we are now starting to go around in a circle, we could probably fill the rest of the thread if we chose to carry on.
I have read and understood your position and the grounds that you have given for having that position, whilst acknowledging your highlighting of specific atrocities (eg payment for assassination) I cannot agree with your overall conclusions and therefore feel we have reached an impasse.
"Sorry to hear you feel we have reached an impasse but I feel I need to point out a problem with a point you have made. Saying Israel was created is true but it had previously existed for a couple of thousand years before the were forcibly evicted. The Jews have faced almost constant persecution without access to their ancestral homeland. They have not occupied anyone else's land because Palestine has never existed as a state. So why you think this puzzles me slightly. A quick search of Wikipedia would show you this. The name Palestine only occurred as a name given to the area after the Jews were removed. However even after this, no kingdom was created, you'll never find a Palestinian king because there wasn't any. Israel exists as the only true democracy in the area. Has a large population of Arabs that choose to live there. Seems strange that there are large groups of the same people you accuse Israel of wanting to kill who choose to live with the 'murderers' of their own people. I think that for most people it is not the people they disagree with but their religion, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x"So basically what you are saying is that if there was even a suggestion that a member of Hamas was hiding in your neighbourhood, it would be perfectly proportionate and legal for the Israel army to bomb your house. That they would be totally justified in taking any measure in order to kill even a single Hamas member, with no actual evidence that they were in your house. You and your family would be just unfortunate collateral damage, but it would be your own fault for being a possible location where Hamas might be. Sounds ridiculous? But it is exactly the same thing that you have said - killing you and yours would not be murder if it was carried out by solders as part of a military action - "if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties". What the Israeli army is doing, ordered by the Israeli government, is not legitimate military action against a specific enemy. It is large scale retribution against a civilian population - this is explicitly a war crime according to the Geneva convention. It is bombing unarmed civilians, schools, hospitals, places of worship - this is explicitly a war crime according to the Geneva convention. Israel is performing genocide. Israel is performing holocaust. If you cannot see that what Israel is doing is wrong, absolutely regardless of what Hamas have done, then you have no moral sense. If you believe and support Israel in the killing of over a thousand Palestinians (mostly totally innocent) for each Israeli killed by Hamas, then you are complicit yourself. Hamas are wrong in their actions. Israel are a thousand times more wrong in their random retribution. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So basically what you are saying is that if there was even a suggestion that a member of Hamas was hiding in your neighbourhood, it would be perfectly proportionate and legal for the Israel army to bomb your house. That they would be totally justified in taking any measure in order to kill even a single Hamas member, with no actual evidence that they were in your house. You and your family would be just unfortunate collateral damage, but it would be your own fault for being a possible location where Hamas might be.
Sounds ridiculous? But it is exactly the same thing that you have said - killing you and yours would not be murder if it was carried out by solders as part of a military action - "if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties".
What the Israeli army is doing, ordered by the Israeli government, is not legitimate military action against a specific enemy. It is large scale retribution against a civilian population - this is explicitly a war crime according to the Geneva convention. It is bombing unarmed civilians, schools, hospitals, places of worship - this is explicitly a war crime according to the Geneva convention. Israel is performing genocide. Israel is performing holocaust.
If you cannot see that what Israel is doing is wrong, absolutely regardless of what Hamas have done, then you have no moral sense. If you believe and support Israel in the killing of over a thousand Palestinians (mostly totally innocent) for each Israeli killed by Hamas, then you are complicit yourself.
Hamas are wrong in their actions. Israel are a thousand times more wrong in their random retribution."I have condemned Israels response and I will do it one more time for you because you've not read what I've said or just chose to ignore it. Your question about it just being one Hamas fighter that can justify an act is a little simplistic if not ridiculous. How do you know such attacks have taken place in such circumstances? I could equally say Israel have only attacked targets of 10,000 and above. Both statements are made up and not factually correct. I would assume that some form of Intel is being used by Israel. You say that Israel is conducting illegitimate military action but based upon what evidence? Surely if your town was attacked in the dead of night, your neighbours and family taken hostage or killed by terrorists, wouldn't you want your government to respond, I would think most people would want some kind of response. You mention genocide but only one combatant in this conflict states they want this and its not Israel. If Israel wanted to then they could cause genocide quite easily, they have total air supremecy of Gaza. It's strange how you state that genocide is their aim but Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Think it might have been easier if they wanted to to have stayed. As for attacks on certain buildings, Hamas shouldn't be used such places for their operations. But they want human shields to use as a tactic to make attacking them unpalatable. But the use of human shields is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. You go on to say I must not have any morals if I cannot see what Israel is doing is wrong and you go on to say that this is'absolutely regardless of what Hamas has done'. So you think that Hamas, a terror organisation, can do anything to Israel, kill, take hostages, missile attacks, bombings the whole shebang, with no consequences from Israel. That's ridiculous beyond belief.... Also how am I complicit in any of this. I'm not a terrorist or an Israeli. I've not attacked anyone, killed, burned or bombed anyone. All I've done is state that I think ALL civilian deaths are extremely tragic. But I do think that antisemitism plays apart in demonising Israel far more than Hamas. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe."yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.Not programmed but I'm aware it's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to hide military targets behind civilians. Israel even warned them they were going to do what they did. Unlike those poor individuals, taken or killed, by Hamas including babies, with no military aim.
They also get paid by Hamas for each Jew they kill,
Mrs x"proof of all you said pls | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse "OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x"To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earth | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earth"They could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel. As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs x"its isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee camp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee camp"Yet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs x"fatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs xfatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ?"I don't know but the main hospital with the tunnels underneath wouldn't have had any terrorists in it. Israel gave warnings that they would attack it and so Hamas would be pretty stupid to just sit and wait for them. Just from the large numbers quoted it would seem that Israels Intel has been quite good. Hamas aren't going to admit terrorist casualties at such sites. It would go against their narrative of the inhumane Jews. But they are being killed somewhere, they have admitted that, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.Not programmed but I'm aware it's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to hide military targets behind civilians. Israel even warned them they were going to do what they did. Unlike those poor individuals, taken or killed, by Hamas including babies, with no military aim.
They also get paid by Hamas for each Jew they kill,
Mrs xproof of all you said pls"The payments? Google it, Wikipedia has a page on it too. It's a fact, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs xfatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ?I don't know but the main hospital with the tunnels underneath wouldn't have had any terrorists in it. Israel gave warnings that they would attack it and so Hamas would be pretty stupid to just sit and wait for them.
Just from the large numbers quoted it would seem that Israels Intel has been quite good.
Hamas aren't going to admit terrorist casualties at such sites. It would go against their narrative of the inhumane Jews. But they are being killed somewhere, they have admitted that,
Mrs x"So its wrong and no prisoners or fatalities in hospitals, schools or refugee camps,do you still beleive bombing them as milatary targets ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.Not programmed but I'm aware it's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to hide military targets behind civilians. Israel even warned them they were going to do what they did. Unlike those poor individuals, taken or killed, by Hamas including babies, with no military aim.
They also get paid by Hamas for each Jew they kill,
Mrs xproof of all you said plsThe payments? Google it, Wikipedia has a page on it too. It's a fact,
Mrs x"Ive learned that not all you see or read on social media is fact | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs xfatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ?I don't know but the main hospital with the tunnels underneath wouldn't have had any terrorists in it. Israel gave warnings that they would attack it and so Hamas would be pretty stupid to just sit and wait for them.
Just from the large numbers quoted it would seem that Israels Intel has been quite good.
Hamas aren't going to admit terrorist casualties at such sites. It would go against their narrative of the inhumane Jews. But they are being killed somewhere, they have admitted that,
Mrs x
So its wrong and no prisoners or fatalities in hospitals, schools or refugee camps,do you still beleive bombing them as milatary targets ?"I believe Israel considers them to be military targets. The tunnels that Israel say Hamas built under the hospital do exist. Israel released footage of soldiers going into the tunnels, which are very extensive. Also like I said about the terrorist casualties I don't know where they occurred but they have in over 2700 incidents up to 8000 times, depending on whose source you believe. Can you tell me exactly were they deaths have occurred? You don't seem to have much evidence and I'd love to know more? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel " thats already been proven to be untrue | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrue" I never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs xfatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ?I don't know but the main hospital with the tunnels underneath wouldn't have had any terrorists in it. Israel gave warnings that they would attack it and so Hamas would be pretty stupid to just sit and wait for them.
Just from the large numbers quoted it would seem that Israels Intel has been quite good.
Hamas aren't going to admit terrorist casualties at such sites. It would go against their narrative of the inhumane Jews. But they are being killed somewhere, they have admitted that,
Mrs x
So its wrong and no prisoners or fatalities in hospitals, schools or refugee camps,do you still beleive bombing them as milatary targets ?I believe Israel considers them to be military targets.
The tunnels that Israel say Hamas built under the hospital do exist. Israel released footage of soldiers going into the tunnels, which are very extensive.
Also like I said about the terrorist casualties I don't know where they occurred but they have in over 2700 incidents up to 8000 times, depending on whose source you believe.
Can you tell me exactly were they deaths have occurred? You don't seem to have much evidence and I'd love to know more?
Mrs x"I dont know where they occurred but if it was in a hospital school or refugee camp ,then isreal would be reporting it to justify the bombings,i do beleive there was tunnels in a hospital but no one in there,as for schools and refugee camps i have seen no reporting of tunnels | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs x" the evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs xfatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ?I don't know but the main hospital with the tunnels underneath wouldn't have had any terrorists in it. Israel gave warnings that they would attack it and so Hamas would be pretty stupid to just sit and wait for them.
Just from the large numbers quoted it would seem that Israels Intel has been quite good.
Hamas aren't going to admit terrorist casualties at such sites. It would go against their narrative of the inhumane Jews. But they are being killed somewhere, they have admitted that,
Mrs x"Mrs x, your stated position is that every single Palestinian death is just collateral damage and that Israel are totally justified in taking any action they wish. That it is perfectly fine for them to use overwhelming military force against a population that are largely not Hamas. Your own figures are that Hamas deaths are in the range of thousands, while the number of Palestinian deaths are in the range of tens or hundreds of thousands. That it was perfectly allowable for Israel to bomb a hospital that _might_ have a few Hamas fighters beneath it, yet probably would not. Nobody is saying that the Jewish race are inhumane, or even that all Israelis are complicit. However the action being taken by the Israeli armed forces, at the order of the Israeli government, and with the verbal support of people such as yourself, more than meets the internationally recognised criteria for war crimes and intended genocide. There is only one side in this war that has totally destroyed the country of the other. There is only one side that has killed tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians of the other. There is only one side that blocks all attempts of humanitarian relief being provided to the civilian population of the other. There is only one side that has been holding the entire other country in concentration camp conditions for years. There cannot be even the faintest hope of peace while so many people such as yourself make every possible excuse for the actions of Israel, but regard everything done by Israeli forces as justified. That believes that it is right and allowable and appropriate to target every Palestinian civilian, men, women and children, because they "might" be associated with Hamas, or because they "might" have a Hamas fighter hiding in their neighbourhood, or because there "might" have been Hamas members drawn from their families. The actions of Hamas are wrong. The actions of Israel are also wrong, but they are a thousand times larger. Regardless of where it started, how does it end? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?" Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, in answer to the title of your post, the answer based on the thread is seemingly they can get away with a lot more. Like murdering or expelling every single Palestinian living in Gaza. But they are not expelling every Palestinian from Gaza and its not murder, unlike what Hamas did,
Mrs x
They’re murdering them. It is murder. What else would you call killing children? And innocent men and women? Starving them? Taking away their access to things that are their human rights? Telling them to leave Gaza? (But then bombing the areas they move to?) they’re getting them out. People in their military and government have expressed genocidal rhetoric. They’re likening Palestinians to vermin. If it’s not murder, what is it? Genuinely?I'm not saying it's right, let me make that point again. But if you are a soldier targeting a military target its not murder if there are civilian casualties.
30,000 civilian deaths is a terrible figure, frightening really but it still does not qualify automatically as murder.
Brightain targeted civilian populations during the WW2. In response to Germany bombing Britain.
Britain killed 5 million Germans in a couple of nights, Dresden being a particularly badly bombed city.
The architect of this bombing command' Bomber Harris', is seen as a hero for helping to bring the war to an end.
So was he a murderer, were the brave aircrew. who dropped the bombs, murderers?
Many more children were killed here in just a couple of nights than in Palestine.
Now I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just trying to point out it's not murder if you are fighting against a military threat, its collateral damage. This is a terrible phrase but that's what ot is.
Armed conflict is an abomination but Hamas are praying for such an emotive reaction from the international community, that's why they are stopping civilians from leaving Gaza, while their leaders are hiding out in hotels in Dubai.
Did you know that Arabs who kill Jews are paid by Hamas, in fact theres a couple of Arabic funds, that pays for this. Now that's murder.
It's tragic for civilians on both sides,
Mrs x
So hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets?and its not murder?
If one follows newspeak then it is not murder because Hamas have people hiding in hospitals, schools, camps etc so it is ok to bomb them and murder, sorry kill all those who are in that area.
Only those who are programmed will believe.yet not one hamas fighter has been caught in any of them,milatary targets my arse OK let's say you are right, so what does Israel want from this?
Mrs x
To wipe the palestinians from the face of the earthThey could do that easily. You do know that is in Hamas's constitution, not Israel.
As for terrorists caught the number killed is between 2,700 -8,000 depending on which source you read.
Mrs xits isreal who are bombing and murdering innocent ppl,yet not one hamas terrorist has been shown caught in a hospital school or refugee campYet both Hamas and Israel reporting fatalities.
Mrs xfatalities in the 3 places ive mentioned ?I don't know but the main hospital with the tunnels underneath wouldn't have had any terrorists in it. Israel gave warnings that they would attack it and so Hamas would be pretty stupid to just sit and wait for them.
Just from the large numbers quoted it would seem that Israels Intel has been quite good.
Hamas aren't going to admit terrorist casualties at such sites. It would go against their narrative of the inhumane Jews. But they are being killed somewhere, they have admitted that,
Mrs x
Mrs x, your stated position is that every single Palestinian death is just collateral damage and that Israel are totally justified in taking any action they wish. That it is perfectly fine for them to use overwhelming military force against a population that are largely not Hamas. Your own figures are that Hamas deaths are in the range of thousands, while the number of Palestinian deaths are in the range of tens or hundreds of thousands. That it was perfectly allowable for Israel to bomb a hospital that _might_ have a few Hamas fighters beneath it, yet probably would not.
Nobody is saying that the Jewish race are inhumane, or even that all Israelis are complicit. However the action being taken by the Israeli armed forces, at the order of the Israeli government, and with the verbal support of people such as yourself, more than meets the internationally recognised criteria for war crimes and intended genocide.
There is only one side in this war that has totally destroyed the country of the other. There is only one side that has killed tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians of the other. There is only one side that blocks all attempts of humanitarian relief being provided to the civilian population of the other. There is only one side that has been holding the entire other country in concentration camp conditions for years.
There cannot be even the faintest hope of peace while so many people such as yourself make every possible excuse for the actions of Israel, but regard everything done by Israeli forces as justified. That believes that it is right and allowable and appropriate to target every Palestinian civilian, men, women and children, because they "might" be associated with Hamas, or because they "might" have a Hamas fighter hiding in their neighbourhood, or because there "might" have been Hamas members drawn from their families.
The actions of Hamas are wrong. The actions of Israel are also wrong, but they are a thousand times larger.
Regardless of where it started, how does it end? "Just to make it clear, I'm not supporting Israels response. I've never said that, in fact I've said the opposite. So please stop saying that and go read what I said. What I'm saying is that Hamas's actions are objectively murderous and barbaric. Israels are in response to these Hamas atrocities. I say again I'm not in favour of Israels response but I understand why they did it. If it happened here our government would respond and if you say they wouldn't you only have to look at the Falklands War. We sent out whole fleet over 8000 miles after we were attacked. So attack a nation state and that nation has a right to respond. Israel targeted what they considered to be military targets which they say they have Intel that proves they are located under sensitive locations. It's a war crime under the Geneva Convention to place civilians in such locations as a shield. There is only one side advocating genocide here and it's not Israel. From the river to the sea ring any bells. Hamas has genocide in its constitution. It also pays Arabs for killing Jews, ordinary Arabs paid to kill ordinary Jews, what about that? Does this sound like the kind of people that would advocate peace? If the Israeli regime is so bad can you explain why thousands of Arabs choose to live there in peace? Hamas targets civilians, Israel target terrorists but these terrorists have no problem with hiding behind their own civilians, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October?" Nothing justifies killing innocent civilians Do "innocent" civilians allow a terrorist organisation to live all around them. Did the "innocent civilians" in Palestine support the slaughter in Israel of other "innocent civilians" ? Did they cheer to the news reports of the deaths in Israel and help conceal the hostages? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x" Independently corrobatared by who?you say isreal targets terrorists but have murdered 30000 innocent ppl who wernt terrorists,you say they have intel on the places they bomb so what intel and why dont they show it ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Release the hostages." does that include palestinians held with no charge or trial ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The silence of ignoring the fact, innocent hostages are still being held is deafening. Does that justify starving people to death including babies and children who had nothing to do with 7 October? Nothing justifies killing innocent civilians Do "innocent" civilians allow a terrorist organisation to live all around them. Did the "innocent civilians" in Palestine support the slaughter in Israel of other "innocent civilians" ? Did they cheer to the news reports of the deaths in Israel and help conceal the hostages?" what can they do to stop terrorists living around them ?,did every palestinian cheer the slaughter of innocent isrealis ?,is there any evidence that non hamas palestinians helped conceal hostages? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x Independently corrobatared by who?you say isreal targets terrorists but have murdered 30000 innocent ppl who wernt terrorists,you say they have intel on the places they bomb so what intel and why dont they show it ?" Look it up, don't take my word for it. And no military will release their Intel at the time of a conflict. Hamas themselves have stated 2700 terrorists have been killed, Israel put it at just over 8000. Look it up, see for yourselves. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x Independently corrobatared by who?you say isreal targets terrorists but have murdered 30000 innocent ppl who wernt terrorists,you say they have intel on the places they bomb so what intel and why dont they show it ?Look it up, don't take my word for it. And no military will release their Intel at the time of a conflict. Hamas themselves have stated 2700 terrorists have been killed, Israel put it at just over 8000. Look it up, see for yourselves. Mrs x" Il look it up ,what about the 30000 killed who wernt terrorists ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x Independently corrobatared by who?you say isreal targets terrorists but have murdered 30000 innocent ppl who wernt terrorists,you say they have intel on the places they bomb so what intel and why dont they show it ?Look it up, don't take my word for it. And no military will release their Intel at the time of a conflict. Hamas themselves have stated 2700 terrorists have been killed, Israel put it at just over 8000. Look it up, see for yourselves. Mrs x Il look it up ,what about the 30000 killed who wernt terrorists ?" i dont know about that but I'm not denying it either. As for corroboration. Did you mean about the burnt Israeli baby? That was reported on France 24, a French news channel who conducted their own investigations. Adversa, a leading global AI company, also conducted their own investigations and concluded it was genuine. Also the Arlington Post found they were genuine images. 'The Arlington Post analyzed both images using Error Level Analysis (ELA), which is a method used to identify digital image manipulations by examining compression artifacts. Using ELA, the burned baby photo displayed consistent compression patterns, edge sharpness, noise patterns, and brightness levels, suggesting it was unedited' quoted from Adversa's website. These are just a few sources, it is really, Hamas killed by burning Israeli babies, Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x Independently corrobatared by who?you say isreal targets terrorists but have murdered 30000 innocent ppl who wernt terrorists,you say they have intel on the places they bomb so what intel and why dont they show it ?Look it up, don't take my word for it. And no military will release their Intel at the time of a conflict. Hamas themselves have stated 2700 terrorists have been killed, Israel put it at just over 8000. Look it up, see for yourselves. Mrs x Il look it up ,what about the 30000 killed who wernt terrorists ? i dont know about that but I'm not denying it either. As for corroboration. Did you mean about the burnt Israeli baby? That was reported on France 24, a French news channel who conducted their own investigations. Adversa, a leading global AI company, also conducted their own investigations and concluded it was genuine. Also the Arlington Post found they were genuine images. 'The Arlington Post analyzed both images using Error Level Analysis (ELA), which is a method used to identify digital image manipulations by examining compression artifacts. Using ELA, the burned baby photo displayed consistent compression patterns, edge sharpness, noise patterns, and brightness levels, suggesting it was unedited' quoted from Adversa's website. These are just a few sources, it is really, Hamas killed by burning Israeli babies, Mrs x" i cant find any of them but will keep looking | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hamas beheaded children on 07 Oct, they also burnt children alive the Palestine people need to rise up against Hamas. Hamas started this war not Israel thats already been proven to be untrueI never said they beheaded children. There are however images of babies they burnt. It was said that these pictures were created by AI but they were proved to have been genuine, in America and released by the government of Israel. I cannot see how this helps you ascertain that Israel has targeted locations for purposes other than militarily. This is despite you providing no evidence other than that from, as you pit it, 'my arse'. Mrs xthe evidence you talk of has been proven to be untrue and isreal made the images themselves,and yet you still say hospitals,schools and refugee camps are military targets? Can you tell me why you think this ?Israel most certainly did not make the images up. They have been independently corroborated. I am not saying I think anything is a military target I am simply pointing out what Israel are saying about such targets. Hamas have obviously built these tunnels under the hospital, can you tell me why they would do that? Why would you put any potential population on the front line by purpose. Why would Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005 to do this now. It was precipitated by the atrocities of Hamas in October last year. So Hamas can just do what they want and Israel cannot retaliate? Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x Independently corrobatared by who?you say isreal targets terrorists but have murdered 30000 innocent ppl who wernt terrorists,you say they have intel on the places they bomb so what intel and why dont they show it ?Look it up, don't take my word for it. And no military will release their Intel at the time of a conflict. Hamas themselves have stated 2700 terrorists have been killed, Israel put it at just over 8000. Look it up, see for yourselves. Mrs x Il look it up ,what about the 30000 killed who wernt terrorists ? i dont know about that but I'm not denying it either. As for corroboration. Did you mean about the burnt Israeli baby? That was reported on France 24, a French news channel who conducted their own investigations. Adversa, a leading global AI company, also conducted their own investigations and concluded it was genuine. Also the Arlington Post found they were genuine images. 'The Arlington Post analyzed both images using Error Level Analysis (ELA), which is a method used to identify digital image manipulations by examining compression artifacts. Using ELA, the burned baby photo displayed consistent compression patterns, edge sharpness, noise patterns, and brightness levels, suggesting it was unedited' quoted from Adversa's website. These are just a few sources, it is really, Hamas killed by burning Israeli babies, Mrs x" the only thing i can find on burning babies is from isreali soldiers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"YouTube · FRANCE 24 English 33.6K+ views · 4 months ago Israel falsely accused of sharing fake images of Hamas atrocities using AI Adversa AI https://adversa.ai › blog › aljazeera-... Aljazeera Fake News Investigation: Burned babies and an AI-generated ... Hopefully this helps, Mrs x" Thanks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"YouTube · FRANCE 24 English 33.6K+ views · 4 months ago Israel falsely accused of sharing fake images of Hamas atrocities using AI Adversa AI https://adversa.ai › blog › aljazeera-... Aljazeera Fake News Investigation: Burned babies and an AI-generated ... Hopefully this helps, Mrs x Thanks" Think the complete Web link would be easier. https://adversa.ai/blog/aljazeera-fake-news-investigation-burned-babies-and-an-ai-generated-dog-images Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"BBC reporting the Israelis shot dead a 12 year old boy " That's terribly sad. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ethnic cleansing. (noun) The mass expulsion or killing of members of one ethnic or religious group in an area by those of another. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/16/israel-drops-leaflets-warning-people-to-flee-southern-gaza-towns" Just read this, you do know its over 3 months old? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Release the hostages." Which ones The 140 odd Israelis held or the 1.5 million staving in rafah concentration camp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Release the hostages. Which ones The 140 odd Israelis held or the 1.5 million staving in rafah concentration camp " 1.5 million? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I need to say from the beginning that all innocent lives lost in this region is a terrible tragedy. But it would appear that blame for this conflict flows in one direction in this debate. It's said that Israel wants to commit genocide. But Hamas are quite open about saying they want to wipe every Jew from Israel. It's only because Hamas doesn't have the military might that they haven't done so. Israel does have the military might but hasn't committed genocide during its recent history. I do not agree with how Israel have responded but that doesn't mean they are wrong. If you do wrong against anyone you run the risk of retaliation. If the retaliation is greater than you'd thought it was going to be, then maybe you should think twice before committing a wrong. I think it's fundamentally different for a group to go and kill innocents directly whilst another group tries to kill terrorists but innocents are killed. It's very sad but this is what happens in armed conflicts. Hamas did what they did without warning, Israel said how they would respond and gave warnings. The issue of 'human shields' seems like a tactic for Hamas, I'm sure Israel would evacuate under similar conditions. Like I said initially ALL innocent lives lost is a terrible tragedy but to leave your civilians in harms way, when you know it is coming seems callous to me. Mrs x" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much more can Isreal get away with?" It depends on whether you ask Israel or Hamas. IDF reports 10-12k Hamas killed. Hamas told Reuters 6k, but then denied that to the BBC. Let's assume 30k dead at face value. The average civilian casualties ratio for urban warfare (according to the UN/Red Cross) is 1:9. I.e. in any given urban warfare theatre, 90% of the casualties will be civilians. According to (Reuters) Hamas figures, Israel is only at 80% According to Israeli digits, it's closer to 63%. That's not bad going at a crude mathematical level. Of course, it's an overwhelming tragedy for those affected and when you zoom into individual deaths and stories, it's utterly horrific. Back to the OP question. Assuming that (a) Israel achieves their objective of eradicating Hamas fighters (estimated at 30k), and (b) Hamas does not choose to end the war by surrendering themselves and/or hostages, then: According to Israel, at ~85,000 deaths According to Hamas, at ~150,000 deaths (According to UN/Red Cross benchmarking, ~300,000 deaths would be expected) At current trends. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864 https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
