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Its budget day
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By *andu66Couple 38 weeks ago
South Devon |
Putting more nails in the coffin of the NHS by reducing NI...so him and his friends can own it and privatise it... shares, assets, dividends = income..... Then £10,000 to have your new knee op.... waiting for someone to say they are not money rich, it's all in assets  |
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"Yep but when the NHS needs more funding you don't cut the funding pot it's funded from....it's just to give people a tip bit back and most will fall for it and snap it up."
But the NHS doesn't need more funding. It needs to use the money it has more efficiently and concentrate on making a difference to the majority.
Of course, it should be part of a joined up system so other agencies such as councils aren't having a detrimental effect on the core system. |
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By *irldnCouple 38 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Yep but when the NHS needs more funding you don't cut the funding pot it's funded from....it's just to give people a tip bit back and most will fall for it and snap it up.
But the NHS doesn't need more funding. It needs to use the money it has more efficiently and concentrate on making a difference to the majority.
Of course, it should be part of a joined up system so other agencies such as councils aren't having a detrimental effect on the core system."
Trouble is that a “joined up system” for some is too much like “big government” rather than “small government” and fragmentation provides business opportunities to exploit the chaos. |
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By *oo hotCouple 38 weeks ago
North West |
"Yep but when the NHS needs more funding you don't cut the funding pot it's funded from....it's just to give people a tip bit back and most will fall for it and snap it up.
But the NHS doesn't need more funding. It needs to use the money it has more efficiently and concentrate on making a difference to the majority.
Of course, it should be part of a joined up system so other agencies such as councils aren't having a detrimental effect on the core system."
A lot of NHS funds are now being used to pay for private healthcare suppliers contracted to the NHS to provide (for example) scanners and mobile screening units. It would be cheaper if those machines and services could be supplied directly by the NHS but the outsourcing “sell” is achieved by the argument that paying monthly to an external provider avoids high initial capital outlay. Thus the private provider uses the NHS contract as leverage to buy the machines and trousers the rest. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"I keep seeing people saying the NHS doesn’t need any more money but nobody seems to be able to explain how it will afford to pay its staff better and improve productivity without it."
We’ll all be asked to clap a bit louder. |
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"I keep seeing people saying the NHS doesn’t need any more money but nobody seems to be able to explain how it will afford to pay its staff better and improve productivity without it."
Banging pans with wooden spoons worked during Covid.
Let's try that again,
Mrs x |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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The British ISA is just extra tax relief for no benefit.
Most people who use this ISA will have other money invested. They will just invest £5k in UK EQ, get the tax relief and remove UK exposure from their other investments.
It's also a bit pointless given it's second hand stocks, will unlikely move any dials on market price, and will largely go to large cap EQ whose actual UK exposure is minimal. |
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"The British ISA is just extra tax relief for no benefit.
Most people who use this ISA will have other money invested. They will just invest £5k in UK EQ, get the tax relief and remove UK exposure from their other investments.
It's also a bit pointless given it's second hand stocks, will unlikely move any dials on market price, and will largely go to large cap EQ whose actual UK exposure is minimal. "
I agree with your second point but not the first. I know quite a few people, myself included, who hardly hold British stocks. Only last year I started to hold some Rolls Royce stocks. I don't hold any European stocks either. This does give me an incentive to buy some British stocks albeit in small amount. While your point will apply for a few people, when you look at the nation as a whole, this should incentivise more people to buy British stocks, unless the second point you raised becomes a problem. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"The British ISA is just extra tax relief for no benefit.
Most people who use this ISA will have other money invested. They will just invest £5k in UK EQ, get the tax relief and remove UK exposure from their other investments.
It's also a bit pointless given it's second hand stocks, will unlikely move any dials on market price, and will largely go to large cap EQ whose actual UK exposure is minimal.
I agree with your second point but not the first. I know quite a few people, myself included, who hardly hold British stocks. Only last year I started to hold some Rolls Royce stocks. I don't hold any European stocks either. This does give me an incentive to buy some British stocks albeit in small amount. While your point will apply for a few people, when you look at the nation as a whole, this should incentivise more people to buy British stocks, unless the second point you raised becomes a problem."
fair enough. I'm biased by my work but believe most people with decent sized investments who are maxing out their ISAs are generally diversified across countries.
Most advised clients will be.
Self select maybe not or may not rebalance on their pension say, as they may not be as au fait with portfolio management.
People tend to be overweight coz of home bias not underweight ! |
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"Yep but when the NHS needs more funding you don't cut the funding pot it's funded from....it's just to give people a tip bit back and most will fall for it and snap it up.
But the NHS doesn't need more funding. It needs to use the money it has more efficiently and concentrate on making a difference to the majority.
Of course, it should be part of a joined up system so other agencies such as councils aren't having a detrimental effect on the core system.
A lot of NHS funds are now being used to pay for private healthcare suppliers contracted to the NHS to provide (for example) scanners and mobile screening units. It would be cheaper if those machines and services could be supplied directly by the NHS but the outsourcing “sell” is achieved by the argument that paying monthly to an external provider avoids high initial capital outlay. Thus the private provider uses the NHS contract as leverage to buy the machines and trousers the rest. "
Likewise with buildings instead of the NHS leasing them from A Nother. |
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"I keep seeing people saying the NHS doesn’t need any more money but nobody seems to be able to explain how it will afford to pay its staff better and improve productivity without it."
Probably because they feel we're part of the problem. I have colleagues falling like flies, because they work until they drop. And don't claim all the extra hours they put in. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage."
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle. |
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"I keep seeing people saying the NHS doesn’t need any more money but nobody seems to be able to explain how it will afford to pay its staff better and improve productivity without it.Banging pans with wooden spoons worked during Covid.
Let's try that again,
Mrs x"
Was very tempted to go out and bang 'What a load of shit*' in Morse code during lockdown but realised it would be unlikely that anyone could read it, so didn't bother.
*'Shit' is a lot easier to send than 'Bollocks'. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 38 weeks ago
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage.
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle. "
Lowest income is the worst hit with most of the burden.
Not so much of a loss until your on 35k us a year and then you get more.. and more still .. like for example.. MPs.
Lol  .. coincidence? |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage.
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle.
Lowest income is the worst hit with most of the burden.
Not so much of a loss until your on 35k us a year and then you get more.. and more still .. like for example.. MPs.
Lol .. coincidence?"
The two hardest hit groups (according to Sky News) are the lowest earners and those on 55-130k |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 38 weeks ago
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage.
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle.
Lowest income is the worst hit with most of the burden.
Not so much of a loss until your on 35k us a year and then you get more.. and more still .. like for example.. MPs.
Lol .. coincidence?
The two hardest hit groups (according to Sky News) are the lowest earners and those on 55-130k"
Oh !? I was watching another news channel. Forget which one |
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage.
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle.
Lowest income is the worst hit with most of the burden.
Not so much of a loss until your on 35k us a year and then you get more.. and more still .. like for example.. MPs.
Lol .. coincidence?
The two hardest hit groups (according to Sky News) are the lowest earners and those on 55-130k"
I’m not sure the words ‘hardest hit’ are appropriate for people earning £100k. More slightly inconvenienced, perhaps? |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage.
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle.
Lowest income is the worst hit with most of the burden.
Not so much of a loss until your on 35k us a year and then you get more.. and more still .. like for example.. MPs.
Lol .. coincidence?
The two hardest hit groups (according to Sky News) are the lowest earners and those on 55-130k
I’m not sure the words ‘hardest hit’ are appropriate for people earning £100k. More slightly inconvenienced, perhaps?"
It’s accurate in the sense that they’re impacted as a greater percentage of their income than those earning more. |
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What I was looking for were signs of labour setting out what they are really going to do if in power.
Then they used the phrase "maxed out the countries credit card" so I now know nothing will change, things are set to get worst when labour get in.I say when labour get in as that is now the news speak.
If that is the case might swell keep the tories in, yes I shocked myself writing that, but nothing going to change.
'No hope no favour' is my newspeak. |
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"Btw who thinks the budget is for the undecided electorate of middle income earners.
Certainly not for for those on or under the minimum wage.
No. It’s not for the poor or the middle.
Lowest income is the worst hit with most of the burden.
Not so much of a loss until your on 35k us a year and then you get more.. and more still .. like for example.. MPs.
Lol .. coincidence?
The two hardest hit groups (according to Sky News) are the lowest earners and those on 55-130k"
Which sounds like middle income earners  |
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"What I was looking for were signs of labour setting out what they are really going to do if in power.
Then they used the phrase "maxed out the countries credit card" so I now know nothing will change, things are set to get worst when labour get in.I say when labour get in as that is now the news speak.
If that is the case might swell keep the tories in, yes I shocked myself writing that, but nothing going to change.
'No hope no favour' is my newspeak."
FFS never heard of a change is as good as a rest, or a new broom sweeps clean...
You don't keep in dick heads cos you fear no change, you vote in someone else to see if they can budget better! You simply HAVE to give them time! |
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"What I was looking for were signs of labour setting out what they are really going to do if in power.
Then they used the phrase "maxed out the countries credit card" so I now know nothing will change, things are set to get worst when labour get in.I say when labour get in as that is now the news speak.
If that is the case might swell keep the tories in, yes I shocked myself writing that, but nothing going to change.
'No hope no favour' is my newspeak.
FFS never heard of a change is as good as a rest, or a new broom sweeps clean...
You don't keep in dick heads cos you fear no change, you vote in someone else to see if they can budget better! You simply HAVE to give them time!"
I’m firmly of the belief that there is a large group of people in this country who say they don’t support a particular political party but will look for any excuse to vote Conservative. |
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"
...
I’m firmly of the belief that there is a large group of people in this country who say they don’t support a particular political party but will look for any excuse to vote Conservative. "
The Conservatives can always be assured of the snobbery based vote. It's human nature personified.
I've heard it said that 'Snobs are people who want to know people who don't want to know them'.
Sums up a big part of the Tory voting sector rather well.
They see the Tories as co-aspirationals and wouldn't want anything to do with demographic sectors which they are keen to disassociate with.
Hilaire Belloc wrote:
"The rich arrived in pairs
And also in Rolls Royces
They talked of their affairs
In loud and strident voices.
The poor arrived in Fords
Whose features they resembled
And laughed to see so many lords
And ladies all assembled.
The people in between
Looked underdone and harassed
And out of place and mean
And horribly embarrassed."
The last people our Tory voters want to look like are those in the final verse. They dread looking like Labour types!
The irony is that they could actually remain aspirational, if that is their desire, while voting more objectively towards achieving a fairer system for everyone.
I'm viewing this phenomenon with detachment and merely putting forward my view of why the Tories get the support they do, regardless of their performance. |
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"What I was looking for were signs of labour setting out what they are really going to do if in power.
Then they used the phrase "maxed out the countries credit card" so I now know nothing will change, things are set to get worst when labour get in.I say when labour get in as that is now the news speak.
If that is the case might swell keep the tories in, yes I shocked myself writing that, but nothing going to change.
'No hope no favour' is my newspeak.
FFS never heard of a change is as good as a rest, or a new broom sweeps clean...
You don't keep in dick heads cos you fear no change, you vote in someone else to see if they can budget better! You simply HAVE to give them time!"
I see things differently than you and that's cool with me. |
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"What I was looking for were signs of labour setting out what they are really going to do if in power.
Then they used the phrase "maxed out the countries credit card" so I now know nothing will change, things are set to get worst when labour get in.I say when labour get in as that is now the news speak.
If that is the case might swell keep the tories in, yes I shocked myself writing that, but nothing going to change.
'No hope no favour' is my newspeak.
FFS never heard of a change is as good as a rest, or a new broom sweeps clean...
You don't keep in dick heads cos you fear no change, you vote in someone else to see if they can budget better! You simply HAVE to give them time!
I’m firmly of the belief that there is a large group of people in this country who say they don’t support a particular political party but will look for any excuse to vote Conservative."
I say that because labour are already getting the public ready for the words the tories have left the finances in disarray and we will have to make tough decisions to make it right.
Heard it all before, in reality I will vote for an independent if I vote at all. |
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway.
And apparently I'll take home less
How does that happen?"
Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT. |
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway."
"And apparently I'll take home less"
"How does that happen?"
"Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT."
I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know. |
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway.
And apparently I'll take home less
How does that happen?
Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT.
I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know."
Tbh I think it has been poor journalism. All I can find is that we're worse off than if the income tax brackets had risen in line with the rate of inflation. |
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway.
And apparently I'll take home less
How does that happen?
Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT.
I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know.
Tbh I think it has been poor journalism. All I can find is that we're worse off than if the income tax brackets had risen in line with the rate of inflation."
That's the issue. It would have been much fairer to raise the tax thresholds but it would have cost more money. |
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"And apparently I'll take home less"
"How does that happen?"
"Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT."
"I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know."
"Tbh I think it has been poor journalism. All I can find is that we're worse off than if the income tax brackets had risen in line with the rate of inflation."
Ah yes, media outlets pre-reporting events before they happen, then after the event explaining why what they originally reported would have been better.
Thanks for getting back to us. |
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By *irldnCouple 38 weeks ago
Brighton |
Not sure about “take home less” but the hard concept to grasp is fiscal drag that is exacerbated by inflation but, I think, it presupposes you are in receipt of a payrise that pushes you over a frozen IC threshold. |
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"Not sure about “take home less” but the hard concept to grasp is fiscal drag that is exacerbated by inflation but, I think, it presupposes you are in receipt of a payrise that pushes you over a frozen IC threshold."
Not necessarily. Even if you stay within a band, if the thresholds are frozen you pay tax on all of any pay rise whereas if the pay rise and threshold moved by the same amount the amount of tax would stay the same. |
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway.
And apparently I'll take home less
How does that happen?
Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT.
I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know.
Tbh I think it has been poor journalism. All I can find is that we're worse off than if the income tax brackets had risen in line with the rate of inflation."
I saw and heard the same a person under a certain threshold or earning a certain salary say under 20.000 is worst off than the day before the budget, check bbc news /the budget. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway.
And apparently I'll take home less
How does that happen?
Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT.
I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know.
Tbh I think it has been poor journalism. All I can find is that we're worse off than if the income tax brackets had risen in line with the rate of inflation.
I saw and heard the same a person under a certain threshold or earning a certain salary say under 20.000 is worst off than the day before the budget, check bbc news /the budget."
everything on the BBC I've signed includes fiscal drag. If you don't increase tax bands your standard of living goes down, even if you get an inflationary matching pay rise. |
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By *irldnCouple 38 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Not sure about “take home less” but the hard concept to grasp is fiscal drag that is exacerbated by inflation but, I think, it presupposes you are in receipt of a payrise that pushes you over a frozen IC threshold.
Not necessarily. Even if you stay within a band, if the thresholds are frozen you pay tax on all of any pay rise whereas if the pay rise and threshold moved by the same amount the amount of tax would stay the same."
Which is exactly what I said using different words. That is what fiscal drag is essentially. |
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"If they’re going v to bribe me it’s going to take more than £50 a month, not that they were getting my vote anyway.
And apparently I'll take home less
How does that happen?
Ask the experts but those on less than 28 = reduced ni and upped tax. It was mentioned on BBC one on budget day, and today on QT.
I can't find anything about raising of any taxes. If you find out what's going on, please let us know.
Tbh I think it has been poor journalism. All I can find is that we're worse off than if the income tax brackets had risen in line with the rate of inflation.
I saw and heard the same a person under a certain threshold or earning a certain salary say under 20.000 is worst off than the day before the budget, check bbc news /the budget.everything on the BBC I've signed includes fiscal drag. If you don't increase tax bands your standard of living goes down, even if you get an inflationary matching pay rise. "
that's the one a tax by stealth. |
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"I saw and heard the same a person under a certain threshold or earning a certain salary say under 20.000 is worst off than the day before the budget, check bbc news /the budget."
You may have thought that's what you heard, but it wasn't. Fiscal drag is down to the slow erosion of value by inflation, it doesn't happen overnight. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"I will give it a couple of months and see if my finances improve. If they do then I may or may not vote Tories but if they dont then I wont be voting for anybody"
the beauty of a tax cut is you will see your finances improve in the short term. Fiscal drag means that it will worsen over the medium term. By which point, we probably will have had the election.
This is a feature but a bug
tbf those between 26k and 60k will be better of next year. But I'd also say base your vote not on how you feel this year (as it was an election budget) but how you've felt the last few years. It's easy to pocket fiscal drag over many years and give some back in an election year.
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"
...
I saw and heard the same a person under a certain threshold or earning a certain salary say under 20.000 is worst off than the day before the budget, check bbc news /the budget."
That figures. The budget never fails to hit me more than most people. |
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"To be fair though it is a bit of a government funding myth that NI is used for the NHS. It all goes into the big pot."
"Lie, rather than myth you mean. "
No one is lying. No one in the government claims that NI is used entirely for the NHS, it's just one of those beliefs that people have with no foundation. Like lots of people still believing that we pay road tax, when that idea was abolished in 1934. |
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By *irldnCouple 38 weeks ago
Brighton |
"To be fair though it is a bit of a government funding myth that NI is used for the NHS. It all goes into the big pot.
Lie, rather than myth you mean.
No one is lying. No one in the government claims that NI is used entirely for the NHS, it's just one of those beliefs that people have with no foundation. Like lots of people still believing that we pay road tax, when that idea was abolished in 1934."
Yep agreed  |
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