FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The UK rejoins Horizon
The UK rejoins Horizon
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"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will." If only we were a part of the bigger, more powerful group so we didn't have to be the smaller partner in the negotiations with less leverage. Oh well. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. If only we were a part of the bigger, more powerful group so we didn't have to be the smaller partner in the negotiations with less leverage. Oh well. " What a great idea.. Wonder if we might get a veto too..  | |||
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"Remoaners…ahem "  | |||
"Remoaners…ahem "Facts .. ahem | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem"We don’t do facts! You know that! | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem
We don’t do facts! You know that!"But we do do tongue in cheek..   | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will." Like most arguments, there’s three versions of the truth. You just presented one of them. | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem
We don’t do facts! You know that!
But we do do tongue in cheek.. "And occasionally tongue in pussy | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem
We don’t do facts! You know that!
But we do do tongue in cheek..
And occasionally tongue in pussy "By the cringe Sir, such smuttiness is not for here.. This is the place for vocal people.. | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem
We don’t do facts! You know that!
But we do do tongue in cheek.. "I have had my tongue in a fair few cheeks. Between cheeks too! I’m very tonguey in cheeky | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem
We don’t do facts! You know that!
But we do do tongue in cheek..
And occasionally tongue in pussy
By the cringe Sir, such smuttiness is not for here..
This is the place for vocal people..
"But being fair it is hard to be vocal when your tongue is firmly in someone’s cheek!!!!  | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will." Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will." "Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start." Would you like to tell us which bit of the signed agreement the UK failed to follow? | |||
"Remoaners…ahem
Facts .. ahem
We don’t do facts! You know that!
But we do do tongue in cheek..
And occasionally tongue in pussy
By the cringe Sir, such smuttiness is not for here..
This is the place for vocal people..
But being fair it is hard to be vocal when your tongue is firmly in someone’s cheek!!!! "That is true, tbh I'm not sure if vocal shouldn't be local.. Both seem apt at times.. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start." We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. Would you like to tell us which bit of the signed agreement the UK failed to follow?" I suggest you remind yourself of what actually happened by looking up what was agreed with the NI protocol within the oven ready deal that Boris Johnson signed. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will." "Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start." "We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either." We didn't threaten to walk away. The UK's Horizon participation was written into the TCA at an early stage, and was never changed. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either. We didn't threaten to walk away. The UK's Horizon participation was written into the TCA at an early stage, and was never changed." You’re sure the science minister George Freeman didn’t tell the EU that time was running out, and the U.K. was ready to press on with its own research scheme? Because I think he did. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will." "Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start." "Would you like to tell us which bit of the signed agreement the UK failed to follow?" "I suggest you remind yourself of what actually happened by looking up what was agreed with the NI protocol within the oven ready deal that Boris Johnson signed." So that's no, you wouldn't like to explain what you're talking about. Instead you'd prefer to hand wave and hope that no one notices that you're referencing the Northern Ireland Protocol, which has nothing to do with Horizon membership. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. Would you like to tell us which bit of the signed agreement the UK failed to follow? I suggest you remind yourself of what actually happened by looking up what was agreed with the NI protocol within the oven ready deal that Boris Johnson signed. So that's no, you wouldn't like to explain what you're talking about. Instead you'd prefer to hand wave and hope that no one notices that you're referencing the Northern Ireland Protocol, which has nothing to do with Horizon membership." And yet it did, clearly. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either. We didn't threaten to walk away. The UK's Horizon participation was written into the TCA at an early stage, and was never changed. You’re sure the science minister George Freeman didn’t tell the EU that time was running out, and the U.K. was ready to press on with its own research scheme? Because I think he did." And he volunteered to invest billions | |||
"We didn't threaten to walk away. The UK's Horizon participation was written into the TCA at an early stage, and was never changed." "You’re sure the science minister George Freeman didn’t tell the EU that time was running out, and the U.K. was ready to press on with its own research scheme? Because I think he did." He did say that, but he said it 18 months after the EU admitted that they were going to renege on the TCA over an unrelated matter. He also said it the week after the UK gave notice that it would be calling for formal dispute resolution over the EU's failure to sign the Horizon papers. | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either." tbf we didn't threaten to walk away at least not until the dispute stage. It is true that a consequence of Brexit was, by default, leaving horizon. Maybe thats what you meant. We had to negotiate to come back in. And while the steps to do we were agreed, the EU delayed starting those steps. However there was still negotiation needed (based on looking at HMG press release in Dec). So one may have some sympathy with the EU not starting those if it felt the UK was a bad faith negotiator. Which at the time of NIP we may have looked. All a bit messy. | |||
"Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start." "Would you like to tell us which bit of the signed agreement the UK failed to follow?" "I suggest you remind yourself of what actually happened by looking up what was agreed with the NI protocol within the oven ready deal that Boris Johnson signed." "So that's no, you wouldn't like to explain what you're talking about. Instead you'd prefer to hand wave and hope that no one notices that you're referencing the Northern Ireland Protocol, which has nothing to do with Horizon membership." "And yet it did, clearly." Not legally it didn't, which is why the EU weren't doing well in the formal dispute resolution process. Either way, you've still not pointed out any part of either agreement which the UK failed to follow. | |||
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"Do any of these big expensive things we need to join according to some folk actually help normal people day today in this country? Because it all sounds like a load of bait and switch bollox to distract from real problems to us." Yes, scientific research helps normal folk | |||
"Do any of these big expensive things we need to join according to some folk actually help normal people day today in this country? Because it all sounds like a load of bait and switch bollox to distract from real problems to us. Yes, scientific research helps normal folk "And large expensive umbrella organisations are needed to do this? Not buying it fella. | |||
"Do any of these big expensive things we need to join according to some folk actually help normal people day today in this country? Because it all sounds like a load of bait and switch bollox to distract from real problems to us. Yes, scientific research helps normal folk
And large expensive umbrella organisations are needed to do this? Not buying it fella."Large organisations working across borders are more effective than small ones operating independently, yes. | |||
"Do any of these big expensive things we need to join according to some folk actually help normal people day today in this country? Because it all sounds like a load of bait and switch bollox to distract from real problems to us. Yes, scientific research helps normal folk
And large expensive umbrella organisations are needed to do this? Not buying it fella."how else do Unis pay for R&D? | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either.tbf we didn't threaten to walk away at least not until the dispute stage. It is true that a consequence of Brexit was, by default, leaving horizon. Maybe thats what you meant. We had to negotiate to come back in. And while the steps to do we were agreed, the EU delayed starting those steps. However there was still negotiation needed (based on looking at HMG press release in Dec). So one may have some sympathy with the EU not starting those if it felt the UK was a bad faith negotiator. Which at the time of NIP we may have looked. All a bit messy. " I agree the issues around the NIP could show the UK as bad Faith negotiator but if the EU then stopped the UK joining horizon after it had agreed entry, does that not make the EU also a bad Faith negotiator | |||
"We were never supposed to leave the Horizon programme. There was an agreement in place that the UK would continue in the programme after Brexit, but the EU used it as a bargaining chip to get their way over Northern Ireland. Now that we've 'solved' the Stormont issue, the EU is having to let us re-join the thing that they made us leave against our will. Had the UK stuck to the initial agreement that Boris signed, the UK would have been in the Horizon programme from the start. We probably shouldn’t have threatened to walk away from Horizon, either.tbf we didn't threaten to walk away at least not until the dispute stage. It is true that a consequence of Brexit was, by default, leaving horizon. Maybe thats what you meant. We had to negotiate to come back in. And while the steps to do we were agreed, the EU delayed starting those steps. However there was still negotiation needed (based on looking at HMG press release in Dec). So one may have some sympathy with the EU not starting those if it felt the UK was a bad faith negotiator. Which at the time of NIP we may have looked. All a bit messy. I agree the issues around the NIP could show the UK as bad Faith negotiator but if the EU then stopped the UK joining horizon after it had agreed entry, does that not make the EU also a bad Faith negotiator" yep. Messy. Tit for tat politics that ultimately hurt us all. For all his faults, sunek does seem to have helped create a better relationship with the EU and both sides now seem to engage like adults. | |||
"Do any of these big expensive things we need to join according to some folk actually help normal people day today in this country? Because it all sounds like a load of bait and switch bollox to distract from real problems to us." "Yes, scientific research helps normal folk" Especially the normal folk that get employed to the work, and those that do the admin, clean the buildings, man the canteen, etc. Not to mention the ones that get employed to make the new gadgets that the scientific research makes possible, the gadget marketers, the gadget servicing industry, and so on. "And large expensive umbrella organisations are needed to do this?" Yes. No single country can afford to build a Large Hadron Collider, but a group of countries can afford to build one between them. | |||
