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Voting for other than tory
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Anything other than a vote for Labour (or perhaps a tactical vote if in a tory stronghold seat) splits the opposition vote and with a first past the post system, allows these tory fuckers to get in with a majority, despite more than half the population NOT voting for them.
Disillusioned or not, it's really the only option to make sure we dont have another 4/5 years of these twats. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here"
Vote for whoever you want. What do you believe in? Find a party that represents that. |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here"
I think this is a great question. The conservatives have run out of steam. They ran out of steam years ago but it says something about the rest of the parties when they are still unable to get rid of them.
I think the majority of the country couldn’t tell you what the alternatives stood for and why they should be voted for which is a pretty damning indictment. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here
I think this is a great question. The conservatives have run out of steam. They ran out of steam years ago but it says something about the rest of the parties when they are still unable to get rid of them.
I think the majority of the country couldn’t tell you what the alternatives stood for and why they should be voted for which is a pretty damning indictment. "
 fully agree |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here
I think this is a great question. The conservatives have run out of steam. They ran out of steam years ago but it says something about the rest of the parties when they are still unable to get rid of them.
I think the majority of the country couldn’t tell you what the alternatives stood for and why they should be voted for which is a pretty damning indictment. "
I consider it part of my civic duty to find out what I'm voting for. (But then, I grew up in a place with compulsory voting, so... my cultural perspective is somewhat skewed  ) |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here"
Which parties stand in your constituency?
The main options are:
Lib Dems - no idea what they stand for these days.
Greens - if you want the government to stop working in the interests of the fossil fuel industry.
Reform - if you think teachers aren't racist enough and that science is a conspiracy. |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here
I think this is a great question. The conservatives have run out of steam. They ran out of steam years ago but it says something about the rest of the parties when they are still unable to get rid of them.
I think the majority of the country couldn’t tell you what the alternatives stood for and why they should be voted for which is a pretty damning indictment.
I consider it part of my civic duty to find out what I'm voting for. (But then, I grew up in a place with compulsory voting, so... my cultural perspective is somewhat skewed )"
When you find out please let me know - genuinely interested. |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here
I think this is a great question. The conservatives have run out of steam. They ran out of steam years ago but it says something about the rest of the parties when they are still unable to get rid of them.
I think the majority of the country couldn’t tell you what the alternatives stood for and why they should be voted for which is a pretty damning indictment.
I consider it part of my civic duty to find out what I'm voting for. (But then, I grew up in a place with compulsory voting, so... my cultural perspective is somewhat skewed )
When you find out please let me know - genuinely interested."
Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start.
"
Yeah but policies and actions don't always align. |
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Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start.
Yeah but policies and actions don't always align."
Well, obviously. But it's all you've got to go on. Promises and record to date. |
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Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start.
Yeah but policies and actions don't always align.
Well, obviously. But it's all you've got to go on. Promises and record to date."
That’s not completely true though is it? It is true for the governing party but for an opposition that has been out of power for over a decade then they need to articulate an overarching philosophy.
Thatcher did that during the winter of discontent. Blair was able to tap into the earlier work of Smith and Kinnock and articulated a new view.
The fact that we have been through the last decade and no one can actually say what the new philosophy is other than “it isn’t the fucking tories” is pretty pathetic. |
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Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start.
Yeah but policies and actions don't always align.
Well, obviously. But it's all you've got to go on. Promises and record to date.
That’s not completely true though is it? It is true for the governing party but for an opposition that has been out of power for over a decade then they need to articulate an overarching philosophy.
Thatcher did that during the winter of discontent. Blair was able to tap into the earlier work of Smith and Kinnock and articulated a new view.
The fact that we have been through the last decade and no one can actually say what the new philosophy is other than “it isn’t the fucking tories” is pretty pathetic."
So people in opposition live in a vacuum? They don't have other careers, they don't have voting records?
It's impossible to go to the Labour (Lib Dem, Green, whoever) website and read what they've written about what they'd do, and judge that against voting records etc?
The fact that people *don't* doesn't mean that people *can't* do that. It indicates their level of political engagement and willingness to put in work. Which might be a bit "fucking pathetic", but I don't think that's the direction you were aiming that comment in. |
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Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start.
Yeah but policies and actions don't always align.
Well, obviously. But it's all you've got to go on. Promises and record to date.
That’s not completely true though is it? It is true for the governing party but for an opposition that has been out of power for over a decade then they need to articulate an overarching philosophy.
Thatcher did that during the winter of discontent. Blair was able to tap into the earlier work of Smith and Kinnock and articulated a new view.
The fact that we have been through the last decade and no one can actually say what the new philosophy is other than “it isn’t the fucking tories” is pretty pathetic.
So people in opposition live in a vacuum? They don't have other careers, they don't have voting records?
It's impossible to go to the Labour (Lib Dem, Green, whoever) website and read what they've written about what they'd do, and judge that against voting records etc?
The fact that people *don't* doesn't mean that people *can't* do that. It indicates their level of political engagement and willingness to put in work. Which might be a bit "fucking pathetic", but I don't think that's the direction you were aiming that comment in."
My pathetic comment wasn’t aimed at you - it was aimed at the fact that I genuinely don’t believe that the person in the street could articulate the world view of any other party than the tories (and the SNP in Scotland). If you feel that there is a coherent view and that the majority of the public understands that then I am more than happy to be wrong. I genuinely hope I am wrong about that. I fear that is not the case though.
The reality is that the electorate won’t dig into policies. And if they did they would not believe them. What they buy into is an aspirational world view. That is what needs to be articulated by any party that wants to run for more than one term.
Those world views either do not exist or they are not resonating with the public. |
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Have you tried looking at the party websites for general policies, paying attention to the news, and looking at your MP/ candidates? That's where I'd start.
Yeah but policies and actions don't always align.
Well, obviously. But it's all you've got to go on. Promises and record to date.
That’s not completely true though is it? It is true for the governing party but for an opposition that has been out of power for over a decade then they need to articulate an overarching philosophy.
Thatcher did that during the winter of discontent. Blair was able to tap into the earlier work of Smith and Kinnock and articulated a new view.
The fact that we have been through the last decade and no one can actually say what the new philosophy is other than “it isn’t the fucking tories” is pretty pathetic.
So people in opposition live in a vacuum? They don't have other careers, they don't have voting records?
It's impossible to go to the Labour (Lib Dem, Green, whoever) website and read what they've written about what they'd do, and judge that against voting records etc?
The fact that people *don't* doesn't mean that people *can't* do that. It indicates their level of political engagement and willingness to put in work. Which might be a bit "fucking pathetic", but I don't think that's the direction you were aiming that comment in.
My pathetic comment wasn’t aimed at you - it was aimed at the fact that I genuinely don’t believe that the person in the street could articulate the world view of any other party than the tories (and the SNP in Scotland). If you feel that there is a coherent view and that the majority of the public understands that then I am more than happy to be wrong. I genuinely hope I am wrong about that. I fear that is not the case though.
The reality is that the electorate won’t dig into policies. And if they did they would not believe them. What they buy into is an aspirational world view. That is what needs to be articulated by any party that wants to run for more than one term.
Those world views either do not exist or they are not resonating with the public."
I think it's pathetic that people expect to be spoonfed. It wasn't aimed at you, either.
I'm not sure, with such a profoundly broken country and various poor outlooks on a global scale, that aspiration would be believable. And we all know that politicians lie, but no one's that fucking stupid. Rebuilding will be hard.
I also think you're focusing on marketing and media strategy as what a politician should be doing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm conflicted.
The Tory party (especially this iteration) is so far from what I want of a government (attitude as much as policy) I can see tactical voting being the way.
However I'm not die cast Labour. Hell, I've never actually voted for them.
I normally go by policies. That can be difficult because I may agree with a large chunk, but not the headline policies. Eg the greens can have policies I agree with on economy, social support etc... But a vote there could be seen as being supportive because of views on trident say not despite.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This"
That kind of strategy keeps us locked in a two party system forever |
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"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
That kind of strategy keeps us locked in a two party system forever "
What, as opposed to voting Green in a seat which is, say, Lib Dem/ Tory split, and having as much effect as having a piss instead of voting?
I don't like strategy either, but it's a necessity under FPTP. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
In a way, I'm glad that we have Labour voters on here who are open-minded enough to consider the possibility of voting for other (non-tory) parties - notwithstanding the reasons for that - but I hope they're not wasted votes in places where they might make a vital difference.
I've read enough BTL comments in the thinking press from idealists and ideologues to have real worries that their unachievable ideal will be the enemy of the necessary but less-than-ideal. I'm going to vote for whoever I need to in order to oust this bunch of shysters. Idealism will have to wait until we have somehow extracted ourselves from shitcreek. |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here"
Well like you I am another like you.
I have no idea, I don't think I will vote but write on my ballot that there is no one I can vote for and put that into the ballot box. |
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"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
That kind of strategy keeps us locked in a two party system forever "
Thats is how things have been all my life, it is time for change, but from what I can see, we will have to remove the lot of them.
The reason we have a commons chamber, and M.P wages was to let the common man into politics to speak for those like themselves.
go forward to now and this common man are now millionaires again who are looking after their own interests. |
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"Anything other than a vote for Labour (or perhaps a tactical vote if in a tory stronghold seat) splits the opposition vote and with a first past the post system, allows these tory fuckers to get in with a majority, despite more than half the population NOT voting for them.
Disillusioned or not, it's really the only option to make sure we dont have another 4/5 years of these twats."
Historically first past the post has worked for the labour party though.
If the opposition party is strong enough, with policies voters can relate to (and believe the party can deliver) that party will garner the votes.
I give voters more gumption than falling for press trumpet blowing and have the ability to see through the smoke and mirrors.
Have policies that resonate with me, make me believe you can deliver and I'll vote for you, regardless of the political hue.
If no party does that, no party gets my vote.
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I view voting as public transport (and grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, so I'll be voting).
I think we can realistically expect that the Tories are a bus to More Shitshow.
I want to go to Nice Place, not Slightly Less Shit, but if I've got two buses, I'm going to go for Slightly Less Shit. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"I view voting as public transport (and grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, so I'll be voting).
I think we can realistically expect that the Tories are a bus to More Shitshow.
I want to go to Nice Place, not Slightly Less Shit, but if I've got two buses, I'm going to go for Slightly Less Shit."
Nicely put, and a welcome corrective to some of the infantile rubbish being peddled further up-thread. |
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"I view voting as public transport (and grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, so I'll be voting).
I think we can realistically expect that the Tories are a bus to More Shitshow.
I want to go to Nice Place, not Slightly Less Shit, but if I've got two buses, I'm going to go for Slightly Less Shit.
Nicely put, and a welcome corrective to some of the infantile rubbish being peddled further up-thread."
I haven't yet decided how I'm voting (tactically, for my own seat, anything other than Labour or Lib Dems is a waste - I think the Green party got about six percent, and they were the third most popular party). But in my specific case, it'll be a bus to Slightly Less Shit (North) or Slightly Less Shit (South). |
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"Same sh1t different party.
Nothing will change, you will still be screwed over."
I find this kind of defeatism to be counterproductive.
I'll be voting for what seems to be less shit, then working to make changes I can at the level I can. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"I view voting as public transport (and grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, so I'll be voting).
I think we can realistically expect that the Tories are a bus to More Shitshow.
I want to go to Nice Place, not Slightly Less Shit, but if I've got two buses, I'm going to go for Slightly Less Shit.
Nicely put, and a welcome corrective to some of the infantile rubbish being peddled further up-thread.
I haven't yet decided how I'm voting (tactically, for my own seat, anything other than Labour or Lib Dems is a waste - I think the Green party got about six percent, and they were the third most popular party). But in my specific case, it'll be a bus to Slightly Less Shit (North) or Slightly Less Shit (South)."
I think my vote needs to be Labour. We're not quite one of the vulnerable blue wall seats and the useless incumbent is one of Sunak's front-bench cronies so it may be a case of hoping things happen elsewhere; if not, it will be a Portillo moment. |
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"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given."
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow |
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"I view voting as public transport (and grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, so I'll be voting).
I think we can realistically expect that the Tories are a bus to More Shitshow.
I want to go to Nice Place, not Slightly Less Shit, but if I've got two buses, I'm going to go for Slightly Less Shit.
Nicely put, and a welcome corrective to some of the infantile rubbish being peddled further up-thread.
I haven't yet decided how I'm voting (tactically, for my own seat, anything other than Labour or Lib Dems is a waste - I think the Green party got about six percent, and they were the third most popular party). But in my specific case, it'll be a bus to Slightly Less Shit (North) or Slightly Less Shit (South).
I think my vote needs to be Labour. We're not quite one of the vulnerable blue wall seats and the useless incumbent is one of Sunak's front-bench cronies so it may be a case of hoping things happen elsewhere; if not, it will be a Portillo moment."
Yes. Very much needs to be a case by case basis. Ideologically I'm neither Labour nor Lib Dem, but I suspect that in 99% of cases they'd be my tactical vote in most instances. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"I view voting as public transport (and grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, so I'll be voting).
I think we can realistically expect that the Tories are a bus to More Shitshow.
I want to go to Nice Place, not Slightly Less Shit, but if I've got two buses, I'm going to go for Slightly Less Shit.
Nicely put, and a welcome corrective to some of the infantile rubbish being peddled further up-thread.
I haven't yet decided how I'm voting (tactically, for my own seat, anything other than Labour or Lib Dems is a waste - I think the Green party got about six percent, and they were the third most popular party). But in my specific case, it'll be a bus to Slightly Less Shit (North) or Slightly Less Shit (South).
I think my vote needs to be Labour. We're not quite one of the vulnerable blue wall seats and the useless incumbent is one of Sunak's front-bench cronies so it may be a case of hoping things happen elsewhere; if not, it will be a Portillo moment.
Yes. Very much needs to be a case by case basis. Ideologically I'm neither Labour nor Lib Dem, but I suspect that in 99% of cases they'd be my tactical vote in most instances. "
Snap! |
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"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given.
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow"
When I was born they was a clear difference of party politics and their political aims.
Now the gap is so narrow they are blurred, tell me what labour stands for is the newspeak because the tories have messed it up labour have no need to say anything to get into power, they will just walk in on no mandate.
Like Lizzy did and rishi.
What labour policy are you voting for any of you?
What is it you are voting for?
The stuff I would vote for he has turned on, there is nothing left I would vote for as he U-turned.
I think our vote is so important they shouldn't take the p1ss and treat us with some respect.
By the way I am a life long labour voter who will now stop voting and join the rising numbers who protest by not voting. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given.
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow
When I was born they was a clear difference of party politics and their political aims.
Now the gap is so narrow they are blurred, tell me what labour stands for is the newspeak because the tories have messed it up labour have no need to say anything to get into power, they will just walk in on no mandate.
Like Lizzy did and rishi.
What labour policy are you voting for any of you?
What is it you are voting for?
The stuff I would vote for he has turned on, there is nothing left I would vote for as he U-turned.
I think our vote is so important they shouldn't take the p1ss and treat us with some respect.
By the way I am a life long labour voter who will now stop voting and join the rising numbers who protest by not voting."
The gap is narrow? Seriously? Seriously?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Propaganda is saying any vote for the Refrom party is a vote that helps Labour to get in. Other Propaganda says that Labour getting in will make things worse.
Reading between the lines things will get worse anyway. At least voting for a third party will help be the death knell of these fake puppet Conservatives we have these days.
What's that? Take away people's civil liberties? Use fear to manipulate the population? Introduce an entirely new tax (and thankfully take it away) via the health and social fund levy? Mismanage through huge overspending with your chums companies? Do nothing about the population and migration issues. You get the idea, how could it be that much worse? |
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I'd rather not vote for a diet tory but will probably opt for a tactical vote which for us, sadly will be Labour.
I am looking more into Greens, they won't win an election but I'm considering my voters conscious |
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"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given.
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow
When I was born they was a clear difference of party politics and their political aims.
Now the gap is so narrow they are blurred, tell me what labour stands for is the newspeak because the tories have messed it up labour have no need to say anything to get into power, they will just walk in on no mandate.
Like Lizzy did and rishi.
What labour policy are you voting for any of you?
What is it you are voting for?
The stuff I would vote for he has turned on, there is nothing left I would vote for as he U-turned.
I think our vote is so important they shouldn't take the p1ss and treat us with some respect.
By the way I am a life long labour voter who will now stop voting and join the rising numbers who protest by not voting.
The gap is narrow? Seriously? Seriously?!"
So what policies have caught your eye, that you are voting for.
Or is your vote going to be tactical? |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
My voter's conscience tells me not to waste my vote if there's a chance it could make a difference for the better. And with the swings we've been seeing in by-elections that chance is not negligible. |
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"My voter's conscience tells me not to waste my vote if there's a chance it could make a difference for the better. And with the swings we've been seeing in by-elections that chance is not negligible. "
Are you answering me or the thread in general? |
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"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given.
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow
When I was born they was a clear difference of party politics and their political aims.
Now the gap is so narrow they are blurred, tell me what labour stands for is the newspeak because the tories have messed it up labour have no need to say anything to get into power, they will just walk in on no mandate.
Like Lizzy did and rishi.
What labour policy are you voting for any of you?
What is it you are voting for?
The stuff I would vote for he has turned on, there is nothing left I would vote for as he U-turned.
I think our vote is so important they shouldn't take the p1ss and treat us with some respect.
By the way I am a life long labour voter who will now stop voting and join the rising numbers who protest by not voting."
Both green targets and collaboration over the people smuggler problem are promises that are more appealing to me than what the incumbents have been doing.
I vote for MP, incidentally, not a prime minister. We don't live in a presidential system. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given.
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow
When I was born they was a clear difference of party politics and their political aims.
Now the gap is so narrow they are blurred, tell me what labour stands for is the newspeak because the tories have messed it up labour have no need to say anything to get into power, they will just walk in on no mandate.
Like Lizzy did and rishi.
What labour policy are you voting for any of you?
What is it you are voting for?
The stuff I would vote for he has turned on, there is nothing left I would vote for as he U-turned.
I think our vote is so important they shouldn't take the p1ss and treat us with some respect.
By the way I am a life long labour voter who will now stop voting and join the rising numbers who protest by not voting.
The gap is narrow? Seriously? Seriously?!
So what policies have caught your eye, that you are voting for.
Or is your vote going to be tactical?"
Certainly the second applies. But even if it didn't, draining the swamp would get my vote. In several other areas I'm waiting for the manifesto - and also for Labour to get in and find out exactly how much of a mess the tories have left behind. But really, "the gap is narrow" shows you have little idea about where the nukip-tories want to take this country. |
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I'm fortunate to live in a safe Labour seat. I say fortunate because it will allow me to vote for the candidate I want - whether that's Labour or not - safe in the knowledge that I don't have to do anything unpalatable to get a tory out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for."
'ancestors fought for'.
That's American propaganda you're parroting there.
The UK sent men into machine gun fire in WW1 who had no right to vote. They weren't fighting for their right to vote either.
It was only after the slaughter than all men were given the right to vote, all women a few years after. |
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"My voter's conscience tells me not to waste my vote if there's a chance it could make a difference for the better. And with the swings we've been seeing in by-elections that chance is not negligible. "
.
I agree with you that the electorate have had enough, but from what I can see there is no alternative.
We need to get the politicians to stop bowing to business and get them back to bowing to us everyday not just every four years. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
Well yes, but how is throwing your vote in the bin going to achieve that?
My hope is that we do actually get a hung parliament where the Lib Dems can actually force progress on real PR, not the rubbish we got when they were Cameron's stooges. |
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"I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for.
'ancestors fought for'.
That's American propaganda you're parroting there.
The UK sent men into machine gun fire in WW1 who had no right to vote. They weren't fighting for their right to vote either.
It was only after the slaughter than all men were given the right to vote, all women a few years after."
I'm Australian. Even women had the vote (in some colonies/provinces) before the 20th century.
"Fight" is not a verb that applies exclusively to the world wars, at least in my dialect of English. It can refer to all sorts of struggles, including suffrage protests. |
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"The fact that most on here know they will be screwed over and are voting regardless is wow just wow.
but each to their own and respect given.
I don't see the point in not voting. It's the one piece of power that you're given, something our ancestors fought for. It might change very little, but it's precious.
And those who talk about the pointlessness of voting and about how badly politics suck and then do nothing but complain? that seems like the utter height of wow just wow
When I was born they was a clear difference of party politics and their political aims.
Now the gap is so narrow they are blurred, tell me what labour stands for is the newspeak because the tories have messed it up labour have no need to say anything to get into power, they will just walk in on no mandate.
Like Lizzy did and rishi.
What labour policy are you voting for any of you?
What is it you are voting for?
The stuff I would vote for he has turned on, there is nothing left I would vote for as he U-turned.
I think our vote is so important they shouldn't take the p1ss and treat us with some respect.
By the way I am a life long labour voter who will now stop voting and join the rising numbers who protest by not voting.
The gap is narrow? Seriously? Seriously?!
So what policies have caught your eye, that you are voting for.
Or is your vote going to be tactical?
Certainly the second applies. But even if it didn't, draining the swamp would get my vote. In several other areas I'm waiting for the manifesto - and also for Labour to get in and find out exactly how much of a mess the tories have left behind. But really, "the gap is narrow" shows you have little idea about where the nukip-tories want to take this country."
I am well versed in politics which is why I asked what policies you will be voting for which I read is none as you are still waiting to see what they stand for, I take it.
Well he u-turned on the policies I would have voted for, leaving me with nothing to vote for.
As for me having no idea I can only say I have no idea what labour stand for now, I know it is not the working man, but rather business in my view, what labour have reformed on is how to work with business abandoning the working man.
And you said it when labour get in, it will be the same as when the tories got in "ho look at the mess we never knew it was so bad, I am afraid you will have to suck it up it isn't our fault etc".
My question to that is when will we say enough is enough just get on with supporting our country and us, and stop peddling to business. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
Comrades, what is it you are looking for in a party?
Tax anyone over 100K 60%, 150k 70%, 200K 80% above that public floggings every Sunday plus 95% tax! Social housing paid by corps for everyone, triple the NHS budget, stifle innovation that would lead to job losses, ban all peerages, abolish the monarchy, open our borders and outlaw comedy?
I must be attracting some voters here with these manifesto ideas? |
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By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"Comrades, what is it you are looking for in a party?
Tax anyone over 100K 60%, 150k 70%, 200K 80% above that public floggings every Sunday plus 95% tax! Social housing paid by corps for everyone, triple the NHS budget, stifle innovation that would lead to job losses, ban all peerages, abolish the monarchy, open our borders and outlaw comedy?
I must be attracting some voters here with these manifesto ideas? "
I hear that nice old Uncle Jeremy is thinking of forming a party  |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?"
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"OP. Why disillusion by Labour? "
Basically Tony Blair and what he did, and also Kier Starmer is heading the same way. The guy can't tell us what a woman is FFS.
|
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"OP. Why disillusion by Labour?
Basically Tony Blair and what he did, and also Kier Starmer is heading the same way. The guy can't tell us what a woman is FFS.
"
I think the point is, he could tell us what a woman is, but he is too worried about upsetting someone should he not word his answer to their liking. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"OP. Why disillusion by Labour?
Basically Tony Blair and what he did, and also Kier Starmer is heading the same way. The guy can't tell us what a woman is FFS.
I think the point is, he could tell us what a woman is, but he is too worried about upsetting someone should he not word his answer to their liking."
Spot on! And while nobody should deliberately or knowingly cause offence (which let’s face it, is just bad manners) we are getting ourselves in a right pickle. |
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"OP. Why disillusion by Labour?
Basically Tony Blair and what he did, and also Kier Starmer is heading the same way. The guy can't tell us what a woman is FFS.
I think the point is, he could tell us what a woman is, but he is too worried about upsetting someone should he not word his answer to their liking."
Absolutely spot on. If he had given a straight answer, it would've been twisted somehow. Turns out, it's been twisted regardless. |
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?"
Reform party website. Then click policies and it takes you to a page with a link to a PDF of their policies. |
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?"
They want to keep Critical Race Theory out of classrooms. That translates to teachers aren't racist enough. |
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?"
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science. "
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador! 
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science. "
No it doesn’t mean that. It means it’s important to consider OTHER scientific views, scenarios and possibilities.
It’s crazy how people are starting to treat science like a cult. “Science” isn’t just one thing, and it’s not an infallible ultimate truth. It’s perfectly reasonable to question and challenge things.
My personal view on climate change is that the focus is on totally the wrong thing. We should be preparing and adapting for change, instead of trying to stop it. |
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
No it doesn’t mean that. It means it’s important to consider OTHER scientific views, scenarios and possibilities.
It’s crazy how people are starting to treat science like a cult. “Science” isn’t just one thing, and it’s not an infallible ultimate truth. It’s perfectly reasonable to question and challenge things.
My personal view on climate change is that the focus is on totally the wrong thing. We should be preparing and adapting for change, instead of trying to stop it."
I think you may have mistaken my post for things I believe, I was answering for Johnny. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"OP. Why disillusion by Labour?
Basically Tony Blair and what he did, and also Kier Starmer is heading the same way. The guy can't tell us what a woman is FFS.
I think the point is, he could tell us what a woman is, but he is too worried about upsetting someone should he not word his answer to their liking."
Exactly |
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|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"OP. Why disillusion by Labour?
Basically Tony Blair and what he did, and also Kier Starmer is heading the same way. The guy can't tell us what a woman is FFS.
I think the point is, he could tell us what a woman is, but he is too worried about upsetting someone should he not word his answer to their liking.
Exactly "
We had Johnson who didn't care what he said and SKS who cares so much he wont say what he thinks.
Is it that simple, the country needs a PM who can speak their minds without fear, and somehow not be a twat about it? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny "
Had a read myself and while at a skim a lot of this seems to be fantasy wishlisting (would love to see the actual numbers behind some of these policies/pledges) if it is possible then I would certainly like to see the following...
Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Had a read myself and while at a skim a lot of this seems to be fantasy wishlisting (would love to see the actual numbers behind some of these policies/pledges) if it is possible then I would certainly like to see the following...
Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t"
my issue is that while most people would support these tax cuts.... They don't show how they can afford it. Other than some made up number of saving £5 in every £100 government spending.
I also query how much tax cuts will be passed on rather than profited from. Different market theories get to different answers... |
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|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Had a read myself and while at a skim a lot of this seems to be fantasy wishlisting (would love to see the actual numbers behind some of these policies/pledges) if it is possible then I would certainly like to see the following...
Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at tmy issue is that while most people would support these tax cuts.... They don't show how they can afford it. Other than some made up number of saving £5 in every £100 government spending.
I also query how much tax cuts will be passed on rather than profited from. Different market theories get to different answers... "
Which is why I started with “this seems to be fantasy wishlisting” |
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"Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t"
All of those sounds like sensible policies that will benefit the nation as a whole. If the election gets fought on who has the best policies, I can see them picking up quite a few votes.
Unless there are some other less palatable policies that they plan to introduce. |
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|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Had a read myself and while at a skim a lot of this seems to be fantasy wishlisting (would love to see the actual numbers behind some of these policies/pledges) if it is possible then I would certainly like to see the following...
Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t"
I think you might need to recalibrate your definition of skim
I will take a good look later, remember manifestos and especially pledges are the worm on the hook, that gets a nibble |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny "
Welcome. I'd say you're their target electorate. |
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|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t
All of those sounds like sensible policies that will benefit the nation as a whole. If the election gets fought on who has the best policies, I can see them picking up quite a few votes.
Unless there are some other less palatable policies that they plan to introduce."
Depending on who you are they have things that’ll either make your blood boil or give you a hard on!
I didn’t cut them over as I was only really interested in their “tax” policies. However, the funding of these is...rather unproven if I am being charitable. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Had a read myself and while at a skim a lot of this seems to be fantasy wishlisting (would love to see the actual numbers behind some of these policies/pledges) if it is possible then I would certainly like to see the following...
Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t
I think you might need to recalibrate your definition of skim
I will take a good look later, remember manifestos and especially pledges are the worm on the hook, that gets a nibble "
And no strategy ever survived contact with the enemy.
Richard Tice is a rather slimey worm though.
|
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"Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t
All of those sounds like sensible policies that will benefit the nation as a whole. If the election gets fought on who has the best policies, I can see them picking up quite a few votes.
Unless there are some other less palatable policies that they plan to introduce.
Depending on who you are they have things that’ll either make your blood boil or give you a hard on!
I didn’t cut them over as I was only really interested in their “tax” policies. However, the funding of these is...rather unproven if I am being charitable. "
Couldn’t the same could be said for every party? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Welcome. I'd say you're their target electorate."
that is an interesting comment and I do like a touch of feedback every now and then.
What makes you think that then? |
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Welcome. I'd say you're their target electorate.
that is an interesting comment and I do like a touch of feedback every now and then.
What makes you think that then?"
We can only assume that you don't think teachers are racist enough, and don't believe 'the science' (note it only counts for scientists that agree with thee) |
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|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Free up 6 million people from paying
Income Tax by lifting the minimum
threshold to £20,000 from £12,571 p.a.
This amounts to 1 in 5 taxpayers. Basic
Income Tax rate stays at 20%.
• The less well-off benefit proportionately
the most, saving £1,500 p.a. @£20,000
salary, circa £30 per week.
• Free up 1.2 million SMEs from paying
Corporation Tax (over 80% of
companies) by lifting the minimum
profit threshold to £100,000.
• Reduce the cost of living by lowering
consumer taxes, which will reduce
inflation whilst stimulating growth:
- Scrap VAT on energy bills = saves
£100 / year per household.
- Scrap environmental levies = saves
£160 / year per household.
- Lower fuel duty by 20p / litre =
saves £240 / year per driver.
- Lower VAT from 20% to 18% = saves
£300 / year per household.
Reduce the main Corporation tax rate
from 25% to 20%.
• Lift threshold for 40% income tax rate to
£70,000.
• Reduce and simplify residential
Stamp Duty: 0% below £750k, 2% on
£750k–£1.5m, & 4% above, will stimulate
economic activity and construction.
• Abolish the burdensome Apprenticeship
Levy, which ironically reduced
apprentice numbers.
• Abolish business rates for small &
medium firms, offset with Online
Delivery Tax at 3%, which will create a
fairer playing field for High Street and
physical versus online businesses.
• Abolish Stamp Duty on share trading,
this will help savers and enable the City
to compete globally.
• Abolish Inheritance Tax for all estates
under £2m (98% of all estates). 20%
tax above £2m — executors can choose
to give this to registered charities or
HMRC.
• Abolish the burdensome IR35 rules
introduced by the Conservatives in
recent years.
• We aim to reform the over-complicated
tax system on savings and pensions,
that currently benefits those with the
most to save at t
All of those sounds like sensible policies that will benefit the nation as a whole. If the election gets fought on who has the best policies, I can see them picking up quite a few votes.
Unless there are some other less palatable policies that they plan to introduce.
Depending on who you are they have things that’ll either make your blood boil or give you a hard on!
I didn’t cut them over as I was only really interested in their “tax” policies. However, the funding of these is...rather unproven if I am being charitable. "
Very charitable given how Liz Truss budget went down, unless they plan all this over quite a few years. One thing though that many have called for, including in here is simplifying tax would be welcome |
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"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Welcome. I'd say you're their target electorate.
that is an interesting comment and I do like a touch of feedback every now and then.
What makes you think that then?"
You argue tooth and nail against any thing or anyone who wants to tackle climate change.
You see to think that those who are aware of social injustice, especially racism are some kind of far left extremists.
A large number of your posts are along these themes. |
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|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I will be voting for the Reform Party
Don't believe teachers are racist enough or that science is real?
You have said this every time reform is mentioned, what are you referring to exactly?
They also say, it is important to be able to debate climate change, that translates to don't believe in science.
I was just reading some of that and I think you have summed that lovely
I hadn't really looked at the policies until now, who knew Johnny would be an ambassador!
I do like the sound of changes to inheritance tax, IR35, some good ideas on moving people into private healthcare if they can't be seen quick enough on NHS.
Quick skim but I will go back and have a closer look later.
Thanks Johnny
Welcome. I'd say you're their target electorate.
that is an interesting comment and I do like a touch of feedback every now and then.
What makes you think that then?
You argue tooth and nail against any thing or anyone who wants to tackle climate change.
You see to think that those who are aware of social injustice, especially racism are some kind of far left extremists.
A large number of your posts are along these themes."
I like this reply
Let’s start with the first comment on tackling climate change, any examples that actually justify the comment.
|
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Labour vs Conservatives at the next election. A choice of:
High taxes or high taxes
High public spending or high public spending
Uncontrolled immigration or Uncontrolled immigration
Supporting foreign wars or supporting foreign wars
Being governed by the UN and the WHO or by the UN and the WHO
Politicians bought by global businesses or politicians bought by global businesses
Weirdo Oxbridge PPE graduates with blue rosettes or weirdo Oxbridge PPE graduates with red rosettes
Moving closer to the EU or moving closer to the EU
Net zero heating in our homes or net zero heating in our homes
More expensive and restricted travel or more expensive and restricted travel
Less freedom of speech or less freedom of speech
Obsession with identity politics or obsession with identity politics.
They claim to be different in their manifestos but, once in power, they will do exactly what they are told by the globalists who pull the strings behind the curtains.
I'm sure there must be a better way to govern, if only I could think of it. |
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"You dont have to vote i dontthink id know what to do to vote never done it "
My opinion, not voting is foolish. By not voting you are saying "I am happy with whoever wins" You can spoil your ballot (do anything other that "put a cross in one box") a spoilt ballot has to be counted as spoilt. Just imagine if the 60 or so percent who don't bother to vote suddenly did and did this. ALL parties would have to acknowledge their failings and realise we have the power.
If they didn't, "spoilt ballot" would win every time a we wouldn't have a government  |
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"You dont have to vote i dontthink id know what to do to vote never done it
My opinion, not voting is foolish. By not voting you are saying "I am happy with whoever wins" You can spoil your ballot (do anything other that "put a cross in one box") a spoilt ballot has to be counted as spoilt. Just imagine if the 60 or so percent who don't bother to vote suddenly did and did this. ALL parties would have to acknowledge their failings and realise we have the power.
If they didn't, "spoilt ballot" would win every time a we wouldn't have a government "
Government will always be there even without political party's, political party's just shake up government departments civil servants run government departments. Also political party's do not care if you vote or not vote, it is your interest to vote ie your registration to vote they seek, if nobody registered their interest to vote that would send a more clear acknowledgment to the 2 political party's. |
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"Being a disillusioned Labour voter.. what is the alternative?
I'm sure there's plenty like me on here"
Since there isn't any party that represents my values. I am left with 2 options:
Vote out the MP in my constituency who voted for genocide against the Gazans/Palestinians. Or boycot the elections altogether. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think people should boycott the Election this year and really stick it to all politicians but most of you are too pussyfoots to do that so Im guessing most of you will vote out of party loyalty and obligation |
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"I think people should boycott the Election this year and really stick it to all politicians but most of you are too pussyfoots to do that so Im guessing most of you will vote out of party loyalty and obligation"
If we don't don't vote, we'll end up with five more years of the same. (Probably what's going to happen anyway), but it's always worth voting for the party who most closely represents your views rather than not voting, in my opinion.
However I do see the point in not participating, the entire parliamentary system is unfit for purpose. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I think people should boycott the Election this year and really stick it to all politicians but most of you are too pussyfoots to do that so Im guessing most of you will vote out of party loyalty and obligation"
Unless 100% of the voting population boycott the election I cannot see what you will gain. Same with spoiling your ballot paper. Even if they are counted, what does it achieve in real terms. As far as I know it will still be the person with the most votes who gets elected regardless of spoilt papers or people boycotting. |
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"I think people should boycott the Election this year and really stick it to all politicians but most of you are too pussyfoots to do that so Im guessing most of you will vote out of party loyalty and obligation"
"Unless 100% of the voting population boycott the election I cannot see what you will gain. Same with spoiling your ballot paper. Even if they are counted, what does it achieve in real terms."
If everyone that was disaffected went out and spoiled their ballot, it would be headline news the day afterwards. If, say, 30% of the electorate did that, it would spark conversations up and down the land on how broken our political system is.
Then we'd have 5 years for some new political parties to start up, and for the electorate to realise that neither of the 2 main parties is going to get in this time, and that voting for one of the new parties wouldn't be a complete waste of time.
There's the possibility it could completely change politics in this country permanently. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I think people should boycott the Election this year and really stick it to all politicians but most of you are too pussyfoots to do that so Im guessing most of you will vote out of party loyalty and obligation
Unless 100% of the voting population boycott the election I cannot see what you will gain. Same with spoiling your ballot paper. Even if they are counted, what does it achieve in real terms.
If everyone that was disaffected went out and spoiled their ballot, it would be headline news the day afterwards. If, say, 30% of the electorate did that, it would spark conversations up and down the land on how broken our political system is.
Then we'd have 5 years for some new political parties to start up, and for the electorate to realise that neither of the 2 main parties is going to get in this time, and that voting for one of the new parties wouldn't be a complete waste of time.
There's the possibility it could completely change politics in this country permanently."
I sort of see what your saying and maybe it would spark a debate, though might take a higher percentage to do that. What I was saying is that it will still be the person with the most votes that gets elected so nothing has changed. They will still be the ones in office. There may well be new parties started during the 5 years but this can always happen and they still need policies that the people who spoil their ballot like. |
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Some alternative to labour in random places
Nip Northern independence party
TUSC Trade union and socialist coalition
Of course the Green Party who get a small vote percentage in the GE
Unless something dramatic changes it's going to Labour or Conservative who are always in power voting any other way is normally insignificant |
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"Some alternative to labour in random places
Nip Northern independence party
TUSC Trade union and socialist coalition
Of course the Green Party who get a small vote percentage in the GE
Unless something dramatic changes it's going to Labour or Conservative who are always in power voting any other way is normally insignificant "
Unless you live in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales which quite a lot of us do |
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I'll be voting Plaid Cymru probably, lifelong Tory hater but now labour is about as right wing, it's all a shamble.
I'm also fed up with the tactical votes. Fptp is an awful system and I understand voting tactically because of it but it just angers me, politics just gets on my tits so much |
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"Some alternative to labour in random places
Nip Northern independence party
TUSC Trade union and socialist coalition
Of course the Green Party who get a small vote percentage in the GE
Unless something dramatic changes it's going to Labour or Conservative who are always in power voting any other way is normally insignificant "
LoL NI all people do is complain about the DUP and despite years of scandal and corruption they still vote for them! Obviously this is just to keep shien fein out. The alliance party is the best option |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
Me too "
No way am I voting for Labour after the mess Sadiq Khan is making of London.
Also, I refuse to vote for somebody simply on the basis that they aren't the other guy. If that's what politics in this country has become then Guy Fawkes and his mates had the right idea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country"
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies? |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country"
"Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?"
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Another example would be having someone like David Lammy telling folks who do trade work to take public transport with their ladders and tool box because him and everybody else at Labour wants to price people out of private vehicles for the sake of climate change and pollution like that's a feasible option. Look as bad as Tories are and they are bad I don't want a Labour Government to run this country like a nanny state |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country."
Coming to an area near you soon...
BCP Council is looking to make the conurbation’s roads a default 20mph limit, deputy council leader Millie Earl said.
Cllr Earl told a full council meeting: “Will BCP Council implement a 20mph default speed limit? Yes, that is our intention.
The make up of the council:
8 Christchurch Independents
12 Conservative Party
5 Green Party
5 Independents
11 Labour Party
28 Liberal Democrat
2 Poole Engage – Action not Words
5 Poole People – Independent and Local |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Another example would be having someone like David Lammy telling folks who do trade work to take public transport with their ladders and tool box because him and everybody else at Labour wants to price people out of private vehicles for the sake of climate change and pollution like that's a feasible option. Look as bad as Tories are and they are bad I don't want a Labour Government to run this country like a nanny state"
If David Lammy thinks that then he's nuts! |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country."
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"? |
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"Another example would be having someone like David Lammy telling folks who do trade work to take public transport with their ladders and tool box because him and everybody else at Labour wants to price people out of private vehicles for the sake of climate change and pollution like that's a feasible option. Look as bad as Tories are and they are bad I don't want a Labour Government to run this country like a nanny state"
This doesn't sound like an ideology to me. Just something a bloke said about using public transport.
|
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
Oh dear … good job we don’t all hold this view "
Of course not all will hold with this idea of voting but a growing number may do .
I have previously voted for the party I want to win nationally rather than my local candidate
, At the next Election I will be voting for the candidate with most chance to defeat the tory candidate ,
|
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country"
"Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?"
"The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country."
"The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?"
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy". |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?"
Don't you remember Drakefords decision to tape off the aisles in supermarkets so you wernt allowed to buy clothes , electrical,or toys during the lockdown as he said they wernt essential items .?
His moronic 20MPH speed limits .?
The man was a tinpot dictator . |
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"Another example would be having someone like David Lammy telling folks who do trade work to take public transport with their ladders and tool box because him and everybody else at Labour wants to price people out of private vehicles for the sake of climate change and pollution like that's a feasible option. Look as bad as Tories are and they are bad I don't want a Labour Government to run this country like a nanny state"
And now Labour want to have supervised teeth brushing in schools for all children aged 3 to 5 years old .
Absolute lunatics . |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
Oh dear … good job we don’t all hold this view
Of course not all will hold with this idea of voting but a growing number may do .
I have previously voted for the party I want to win nationally rather than my local candidate
, At the next Election I will be voting for the candidate with most chance to defeat the tory candidate ,
"
I don't think your alone in that though doubt Labour will need such help to win the election unless SKS goes crazy. Imagine (hypothetically) if the only candidate likely to beat the Tory candidate was from the reform party lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Another example would be having someone like David Lammy telling folks who do trade work to take public transport with their ladders and tool box because him and everybody else at Labour wants to price people out of private vehicles for the sake of climate change and pollution like that's a feasible option. Look as bad as Tories are and they are bad I don't want a Labour Government to run this country like a nanny state
And now Labour want to have supervised teeth brushing in schools for all children aged 3 to 5 years old .
Absolute lunatics ."
Give them a few years and there will be supervised tooth brushing for adults. |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy"."
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology. |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country"
"Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?"
"The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country."
"The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?"
"Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy"."
"This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology."
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology. |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology."
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
"
I guess if people are angry about it, it can’t be a minor issue. Maybe it’s a minor issue for people who don’t have to go anywhere for work or leisure purposes. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
"
A minor issue for people who don't drive and have no idea how difficult it is to drive a consistent 20mph, and how speeding tickets can lead to loss of a license and possible livelihood.
Just a thought, when you consider things from a perspective other than your own |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
I guess if people are angry about it, it can’t be a minor issue. Maybe it’s a minor issue for people who don’t have to go anywhere for work or leisure purposes. "
People are angry about all kinds of minor issues, all the time. |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
A minor issue for people who don't drive and have no idea how difficult it is to drive a consistent 20mph, and how speeding tickets can lead to loss of a license and possible livelihood.
Just a thought, when you consider things from a perspective other than your own "
Yes, I hadn't considered from the perspective of someone who is unable to control the speed of their vehicle. Or from the perspective of someone who has the perspective that someone who is unable to control the speed of their vehicle should be pardoned from a speeding fine.
Good points both. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
A minor issue for people who don't drive and have no idea how difficult it is to drive a consistent 20mph, and how speeding tickets can lead to loss of a license and possible livelihood.
Just a thought, when you consider things from a perspective other than your own
Yes, I hadn't considered from the perspective of someone who is unable to control the speed of their vehicle. Or from the perspective of someone who has the perspective that someone who is unable to control the speed of their vehicle should be pardoned from a speeding fine.
Good points both. "
You still can't consider it from another perspective then?
Do you drive? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
I guess if people are angry about it, it can’t be a minor issue. Maybe it’s a minor issue for people who don’t have to go anywhere for work or leisure purposes.
People are angry about all kinds of minor issues, all the time. "
What’s minor to you may be very important to other people. People who have busy working lives, families to take to school, elderly family to take care of, bills to pay. For those people, the vast majority of the population, the ability to move smoothly and quickly around is important.
And at a broader level it’s clearly vital for the economy that people can work as productively as possible, and that goods and services can be provided and transported quickly. |
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"I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology."
"That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost,"
It quotes a net cost of £4.483bn over 30 years (accounting for inflation and adjusted to 2022 monetary values).
"does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved,"
Yes.
"and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch."
Well, they had a detailed economic analysis drawn up to see if the policy made sense, and then ignored it and implemented the policy anyway. That looks like an ideologically driven decision to me.
"Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party."
If you had to drive in Wales, you'd know just how frustrating it is nowadays. Most policies implemented by government don't have any significant impact on much of the population, but the 20mph limit is one that affects almost everyone, several times a day. I really can't think of any other law change that has directly impacted so many people in such a significant way. |
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"If you people see how Labour's First Minister Mark Drakeford runs Wales and see how Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan runs the city then tell me folks how would having a Labour government would be any better? I dont want their crazy ideologies manifested into the rest of the country
Do you have an example of one of their crazy ideologies?
The obvious example would be the 20mph speed limit in Wales, which Mark Drakeford said would "only add an extra minute to your journey", and that people would "soon wonder what all the fuss was about". He was very much out of touch with the general populace. So much so that he's had to retire before that populace get a chance to kick him out of office.
I certainly wouldn't want to see that policy extended to the rest of the country.
The ideology of less road deaths is "crazy"?
Putting a cost on the economy of £150m per year to save 6-10 lives is indeed "crazy".
This seems like a whole bunch of assumptions made by you, rather than a labour ideology.
I'm not sure which bit you think is an assumption, but the figures come directly from the Welsh government's Explanatory Memorandum to the 20mph legislation. https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf
Given that's its official Labour policy in Wales, I can't see why you think it's not part of their ideology.
That's a big long document. Does it detail this £150m per year cost, does it confirm or predict 6-10 lives saved, and does it explain why this policy is an ideology, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Still if all this is correct, back to the point I replied to. This seems like a relatively minor issue that seems to be causing people to have such a powerful and visceral response to the Labour party.
A minor issue for people who don't drive and have no idea how difficult it is to drive a consistent 20mph, and how speeding tickets can lead to loss of a license and possible livelihood.
Just a thought, when you consider things from a perspective other than your own
Yes, I hadn't considered from the perspective of someone who is unable to control the speed of their vehicle. Or from the perspective of someone who has the perspective that someone who is unable to control the speed of their vehicle should be pardoned from a speeding fine.
Good points both.
You still can't consider it from another perspective then?
Do you drive?"
Yes.
Also. Yes. |
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"Johnny two bob doesn't drive. He lives in his London bubble doesn't give a fig about anyone else's livelihood or how the real world actually works. "
Nope, I do drive.
Nope, I don't live in London.
Nope, I have empathy, which makes me "loony left" in the eyes of the majority of Fab users.
Thanks for the input though. |
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"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
Oh dear … good job we don’t all hold this view "
On the contrary, more people ought to hold this view. It is the only way to prevent opposition being split.
The Tories are lughing all the way to renewd victory all the time that Reform, Lib dems, Greens etc exist.
If you are too much of a snob to vote Labour for the sake of democracy, that is a shame. Remember though, it is snobbery which is one of the main reasons why less well of voters support the Tories while continuing to get screwed over by them...
On another note, I don't expect anyone will read my comment, now, which is in response to earlier parts of the thread as I see that the thread has now degenerated into the usual ad hominem slanging match we can always eventually expect on here. |
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"Find out the split of your seat and vote tactically to get the Tories out, even if it's hold your nose and vote Labour anyway.
This
Oh dear … good job we don’t all hold this view
On the contrary, more people ought to hold this view. It is the only way to prevent opposition being split.
The Tories are lughing all the way to renewd victory all the time that Reform, Lib dems, Greens etc exist.
If you are too much of a snob to vote Labour for the sake of democracy, that is a shame. Remember though, it is snobbery which is one of the main reasons why less well of voters support the Tories while continuing to get screwed over by them...
On another note, I don't expect anyone will read my comment, now, which is in response to earlier parts of the thread as I see that the thread has now degenerated into the usual ad hominem slanging match we can always eventually expect on here."
You have it mixed up here. The tories are the ones in trouble as reform split the right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Johnny two bob doesn't drive. He lives in his London bubble doesn't give a fig about anyone else's livelihood or how the real world actually works.
Nope, I do drive.
Nope, I don't live in London.
Nope, I have empathy, which makes me "loony left" in the eyes of the majority of Fab users.
Thanks for the input though."
The only people you seem to have empathy for are:
Hamas
Men who want to hang around women’s toilets at weekends with a dress on
Billionaire funded climate alarmist nut jobs who want to bring everything to a standstill
The EU.
Anyone who wants to go quietly and uninterrupted about their business and provide for their family seems to be bottom of the empathy pile.
To give you credit you are a very good representation of today’s Left.
|
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"Johnny two bob doesn't drive. He lives in his London bubble doesn't give a fig about anyone else's livelihood or how the real world actually works.
Nope, I do drive.
Nope, I don't live in London.
Nope, I have empathy, which makes me "loony left" in the eyes of the majority of Fab users.
Thanks for the input though.
The only people you seem to have empathy for are:
Hamas
Men who want to hang around women’s toilets at weekends with a dress on
Billionaire funded climate alarmist nut jobs who want to bring everything to a standstill
The EU.
Anyone who wants to go quietly and uninterrupted about their business and provide for their family seems to be bottom of the empathy pile.
To give you credit you are a very good representation of today’s Left.
"
Any comments on the subject being discussed, Or just made up childish insults? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Another thing Labour would do (and they've said it) is allow biological men who identify as women to share private spaces with biological women, if thats not crazy then I dont know what is |
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"Johnny two bob doesn't drive. He lives in his London bubble doesn't give a fig about anyone else's livelihood or how the real world actually works.
Nope, I do drive.
Nope, I don't live in London.
Nope, I have empathy, which makes me "loony left" in the eyes of the majority of Fab users.
Thanks for the input though.
The only people you seem to have empathy for are:
Hamas
Men who want to hang around women’s toilets at weekends with a dress on
Billionaire funded climate alarmist nut jobs who want to bring everything to a standstill
The EU.
Anyone who wants to go quietly and uninterrupted about their business and provide for their family seems to be bottom of the empathy pile.
To give you credit you are a very good representation of today’s Left.
Any comments on the subject being discussed, Or just made up childish insults?"
1 point |
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"Johnny two bob doesn't drive. He lives in his London bubble doesn't give a fig about anyone else's livelihood or how the real world actually works. "
London bubble? Well my counter opinion is the opposite. I grew up in a small town before moving to London. When I go back and visit nothing much changes. In the local pub it's the same people in the same seats, same drinks. Same barman that's been working there since he left school. In my opion they are in their bubble with no knowledge outside their home town "bubble" in London 2 men can walk up the street holding hands nobody cares! In my hometown the pitchforks and burning touches would be out! |
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"
You have it mixed up here. The tories are the ones in trouble as reform split the right. "
You are correct on that one. I typed that shortly before going out and hearing on my car radio that Reform were a threat to the Tories. I hadn't really been following them.
Good on them but I'm not sure the name is going to be of particular appeal to Tory voters who associate the word 'conservative' with keeping things just the way things always are . |
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Conservative voters want a government that is Conservative. Not a wet wipe Labour / lib / green coalition that we've had to endure for years. They've had enough of lies and deceit.
Fed up with the highest tax burden since the 1950s. Fed up wasting all that tax on welfare and a failing health system that's not fit for purpose. Fed up of open door immigration. Fed up of net zero lunacy . Fed up of judges and civil servants undermining what people want. I'll be voting but it won't be for the con/lab/lib/green coalition as nothing will improve. |
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"Conservative voters want a government that is Conservative. Not a wet wipe Labour / lib / green coalition that we've had to endure for years. They've had enough of lies and deceit.
"
The conservatives have been in sole power since 2015. Since then labour, Lib Dem, and greens haven't been a part of the government.
"
Fed up with the highest tax burden since the 1950s. Fed up wasting all that tax on welfare
"
What should we do with disabled and elderly people. Let them die off?
"
and a failing health system that's not fit for purpose. Fed up of open door immigration.
"
We don't have open immigration
"
Fed up of net zero lunacy .
"
Should the government do even less to tackle climate change, keep us tied to ever increasingly expensive fossil fuels?
"
Fed up of judges and civil servants undermining what people want.
"
Shouldn't the law be upheld if you personally want to do something that's not legal?
"
I'll be voting but it won't be for the con/lab/lib/green coalition as nothing will improve. "
There has never been a coalition between these parties.
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