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"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists." Is that a Brexit benefit then? | |||
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"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. " The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards?" I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. | |||
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"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. " You raise a good point. It does seem to be the biggest political issue for most alongside, financial problems, war's, global warming and health and...... | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. You raise a good point. It does seem to be the biggest political issue for most alongside, financial problems, war's, global warming and health and......" Don't worry about any of that. Look at those people in that small boat over there. We've reached the point that enough people think all their problems are caused by other ordinary people, that they vote ever increasingly self serving, divisive and brutal governments. | |||
"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists." They say its a shock...I am not sure why. The government in tbe Netherlands has made some shocking policies particular green energy and farming. And they got 17 seats last time. It really shouldn't have come as a surprise. | |||
"Apparently we left the EU one of the reasons cited was being able to make our own decisions regarding the UK. Yet still we can't even do that,the whole Rwanda debacle being a good example. Not that I'm particularly for the plan but it still seems like the government is unable to make decisions for itself. But I suppose you can say that's a good thing that we are in a position to question decisions and overturn if unreasonable, but the cynical side of me says that decision was based on not wanting to upset the media rather than genuine humanitarianism. " The government can change the law and implement Rwanda still. The supreme court has for me got this wrong. But ove no proble. Following the law at the time. But the uk is free to change its law now. Had this gone to ecj. We wouldn't have had this chance. | |||
"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists. They say its a shock...I am not sure why. The government in tbe Netherlands has made some shocking policies particular green energy and farming. And they got 17 seats last time. It really shouldn't have come as a surprise. " It seems like it's come as a shock to the left. Why? Because they just keep burying their heads and saying there's no problem. | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. You raise a good point. It does seem to be the biggest political issue for most alongside, financial problems, war's, global warming and health and...... Don't worry about any of that. Look at those people in that small boat over there. We've reached the point that enough people think all their problems are caused by other ordinary people, that they vote ever increasingly self serving, divisive and brutal governments." I think that trivialises the issue. I've worked in the Netherlands and they are a cool-headed, unemotional, analytical people (far more so than UK). So if they are voting for 'extreme right' parties, we'd better sit up and ask why. | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. You raise a good point. It does seem to be the biggest political issue for most alongside, financial problems, war's, global warming and health and...... Don't worry about any of that. Look at those people in that small boat over there. We've reached the point that enough people think all their problems are caused by other ordinary people, that they vote ever increasingly self serving, divisive and brutal governments. I think that trivialises the issue. I've worked in the Netherlands and they are a cool-headed, unemotional, analytical people (far more so than UK). So if they are voting for 'extreme right' parties, we'd better sit up and ask why." I work with people I the Netherlands. That is true of some its certainly not true of others. I wouldnt agree completely with this statement. They're analytical but they don't like being challenged. Infact they're a lot less likely than people in the uk to yield their point. | |||
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"Don’t forget that the boers were of Dutch descent so they are quite used to pig headed racism as a part of their narrative " Aaaaaaah a nice bit if bigotry to start the day. | |||
"Don’t forget that the boers were of Dutch descent so they are quite used to pig headed racism as a part of their narrative " What a weird take.  | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards?" obviously people are willing to, they have tried liberal politicians and they think there lives have got worse so they gona try something else, personally i find it all rather amusing that anyone thinks those in power ever have there populations in mind when making decisions | |||
"Don’t forget that the boers were of Dutch descent so they are quite used to pig headed racism as a part of their narrative " This type of attitude wrapped in virtue signalling is getting very tiring | |||
"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists." I think he still needs others on board to form a coalition though his party does not seem as isolated as before so it's very possible. Thing is, will who ever joins him be able to temper the more extreme policies | |||
"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists. I think he still needs others on board to form a coalition though his party does not seem as isolated as before so it's very possible. Thing is, will who ever joins him be able to temper the more extreme policies" Question is what are his extreme policies. | |||
"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists. I think he still needs others on board to form a coalition though his party does not seem as isolated as before so it's very possible. Thing is, will who ever joins him be able to temper the more extreme policies Question is what are his extreme policies." Not sure but apparently he is very anti Islam though that may be blown out of proportion. According to the BBC up until recently other parties refused to work with him. Now though some seem more willing as power beckons | |||
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" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue." Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. | |||
"I wonder why people are surprised that far right is gaining power. Multiculturalism is hard. If you have people whose values conflict with each other and force them to live together, it hardly ends well for any of the people involved. If a country is going to allow immigrants from a country who have totally different values, the numbers must be controlled and steps must be taken to make them assimilate. Unfortunately, it's very difficult because it's natural human tendancy to form circles of people of their own type. Even if lots of Brits immigrate to other countries, you will see this behaviour. When people raised concerns about these issues, their voices were shut down. They were told that diversity is always good when in reality diversity can be good but can also get lot worse for all the people involved. If other parties do not listen to the voices, their only choice is to vote for the party that listens, which is usually the far-right parties. Then the left is somehow surprised seeing that. Netherlands, Sweden and Italy already have right wing parties in power. AfD is close to leading the polls in Germany. Marine Le Pen is leading in France. Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue." Ireland next. In time. And it came very close in Spain as well. Need to start listening to the people. | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. " Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts" I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. | |||
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" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. " Your point was that people are falling for propaganda. I listed out facts. How exactly is that demonstrating your point? | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. Your point was that people are falling for propaganda. I listed out facts. How exactly is that demonstrating your point? " Some of the things you listed are not facts. But the ones that are, are individual incidents. You could just as easily do the same for people native to the countries. In fact that would a much larger list. To divide and conquer us, the further-to-the-right parties get us to blame eachother (in the form of minority groups) for everything, instead of those in charge. It works. And further point, those handful of incidents are focussed on disproportionately by the media. Completely on purpose. You demonstrated how easily it works. | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. Your point was that people are falling for propaganda. I listed out facts. How exactly is that demonstrating your point? " You're wasting your time. You're clearly a far right racist (that's a joke) | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. Your point was that people are falling for propaganda. I listed out facts. How exactly is that demonstrating your point? You're wasting your time. You're clearly a far right racist (that's a joke)" Anyone who wants to control immigration is a Nazi. But the people who paint swastikas on doors of jews, vandalise synagogues and openly say "Hitler knew how to treat them" are just oppressed protestors | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. Your point was that people are falling for propaganda. I listed out facts. How exactly is that demonstrating your point? Some of the things you listed are not facts. But the ones that are, are individual incidents. You could just as easily do the same for people native to the countries. In fact that would a much larger list. To divide and conquer us, the further-to-the-right parties get us to blame eachother (in the form of minority groups) for everything, instead of those in charge. It works. And further point, those handful of incidents are focussed on disproportionately by the media. Completely on purpose. You demonstrated how easily it works. " Which of these are not facts? When was the last time a Christian in UK or Europe went on to murder people or send death threats because their God was insulted? A handful of violent people are enough to take away your rights. That's what already happened in Europe. | |||
"I wonder why people are surprised that far right is gaining power. Multiculturalism is hard. If you have people whose values conflict with each other and force them to live together, it hardly ends well for any of the people involved. If a country is going to allow immigrants from a country who have totally different values, the numbers must be controlled and steps must be taken to make them assimilate. Unfortunately, it's very difficult because it's natural human tendancy to form circles of people of their own type. Even if lots of Brits immigrate to other countries, you will see this behaviour. When people raised concerns about these issues, their voices were shut down. They were told that diversity is always good when in reality diversity can be good but can also get lot worse for all the people involved. If other parties do not listen to the voices, their only choice is to vote for the party that listens, which is usually the far-right parties. Then the left is somehow surprised seeing that. Netherlands, Sweden and Italy already have right wing parties in power. AfD is close to leading the polls in Germany. Marine Le Pen is leading in France. Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue." I think far right has taken on a meaning as anything right of centre. I would certainly never have thought of farage as far right. Right of centre yes but the idea of describing him and brexit party and ukip as far right vs edl etc is ludicrous. | |||
"I wonder why people are surprised that far right is gaining power. Multiculturalism is hard. If you have people whose values conflict with each other and force them to live together, it hardly ends well for any of the people involved. If a country is going to allow immigrants from a country who have totally different values, the numbers must be controlled and steps must be taken to make them assimilate. Unfortunately, it's very difficult because it's natural human tendancy to form circles of people of their own type. Even if lots of Brits immigrate to other countries, you will see this behaviour. When people raised concerns about these issues, their voices were shut down. They were told that diversity is always good when in reality diversity can be good but can also get lot worse for all the people involved. If other parties do not listen to the voices, their only choice is to vote for the party that listens, which is usually the far-right parties. Then the left is somehow surprised seeing that. Netherlands, Sweden and Italy already have right wing parties in power. AfD is close to leading the polls in Germany. Marine Le Pen is leading in France. Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. I think far right has taken on a meaning as anything right of centre. I would certainly never have thought of farage as far right. Right of centre yes but the idea of describing him and brexit party and ukip as far right vs edl etc is ludicrous." Agreed. It's the same all over Europe. The Polish PiS party was called far right. Giorgia Meloni is consistently called far right. They are just conservatives | |||
"I wonder why people are surprised that far right is gaining power. Multiculturalism is hard. If you have people whose values conflict with each other and force them to live together, it hardly ends well for any of the people involved. If a country is going to allow immigrants from a country who have totally different values, the numbers must be controlled and steps must be taken to make them assimilate. Unfortunately, it's very difficult because it's natural human tendancy to form circles of people of their own type. Even if lots of Brits immigrate to other countries, you will see this behaviour. When people raised concerns about these issues, their voices were shut down. They were told that diversity is always good when in reality diversity can be good but can also get lot worse for all the people involved. If other parties do not listen to the voices, their only choice is to vote for the party that listens, which is usually the far-right parties. Then the left is somehow surprised seeing that. Netherlands, Sweden and Italy already have right wing parties in power. AfD is close to leading the polls in Germany. Marine Le Pen is leading in France. Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. I think far right has taken on a meaning as anything right of centre. I would certainly never have thought of farage as far right. Right of centre yes but the idea of describing him and brexit party and ukip as far right vs edl etc is ludicrous." It certainly has. I sometimes wonder if people check under their bed at night for “far right” | |||
"I wonder why people are surprised that far right is gaining power. Multiculturalism is hard. If you have people whose values conflict with each other and force them to live together, it hardly ends well for any of the people involved. If a country is going to allow immigrants from a country who have totally different values, the numbers must be controlled and steps must be taken to make them assimilate. Unfortunately, it's very difficult because it's natural human tendancy to form circles of people of their own type. Even if lots of Brits immigrate to other countries, you will see this behaviour. When people raised concerns about these issues, their voices were shut down. They were told that diversity is always good when in reality diversity can be good but can also get lot worse for all the people involved. If other parties do not listen to the voices, their only choice is to vote for the party that listens, which is usually the far-right parties. Then the left is somehow surprised seeing that. Netherlands, Sweden and Italy already have right wing parties in power. AfD is close to leading the polls in Germany. Marine Le Pen is leading in France. Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. I think far right has taken on a meaning as anything right of centre. I would certainly never have thought of farage as far right. Right of centre yes but the idea of describing him and brexit party and ukip as far right vs edl etc is ludicrous. Agreed. It's the same all over Europe. The Polish PiS party was called far right. Giorgia Meloni is consistently called far right. They are just conservatives" Agreed | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Are you saying that the terror attacks happening around Europe is propaganda? Are you saying that violent riots every time someone burns a Quran is propaganda? Are you saying that the Batley teacher still living in hiding for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that the teacher being beheaded for drawing a picture is propaganda? Are you saying that UK having de facto blasphemy laws is propaganda? Maybe the numerous forced cousin marriages happening in some areas is propaganda and that's why all the pro-science people are silent about it? Pretty sure people are reacting to facts. It's the left wing parties who should take their head out of the sand and see the problem for what it is. Actually the left wingers are the ones who have to be taught not to believe in propaganda and look at the facts I'm not sure if you meant to, but thank you for demonstrating my point. Your point was that people are falling for propaganda. I listed out facts. How exactly is that demonstrating your point? Some of the things you listed are not facts. But the ones that are, are individual incidents. You could just as easily do the same for people native to the countries. In fact that would a much larger list. To divide and conquer us, the further-to-the-right parties get us to blame eachother (in the form of minority groups) for everything, instead of those in charge. It works. And further point, those handful of incidents are focussed on disproportionately by the media. Completely on purpose. You demonstrated how easily it works. Which of these are not facts? " Defacto laws. " When was the last time a Christian in UK or Europe went on to murder people or send death threats because their God was insulted? " No idea. What's this hypothetical scenario got to do with the individual unrepresentative scenarios you mentioned? For many of us who aren't prejudice against Muslims. We're against all forms of murder, regardless of motive or of the religion of the culprit. " A handful of violent people are enough to take away your rights. That's what already happened in Europe." What rights do you think have been taken away from you? | |||
" Defacto laws. " De facto laws is true. If you draw the painting they don't like in public, can you survive and lead a normal life? Plus we have a police force that's scared of Islam. You can burn any other religious book. But if you burn one book, you will be arrested for inciting violence. Not to mention the Wakefield incident where the mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious lunatics while the police watched. Do you have any argument to say why the de facto laws don't exist? " When was the last time a Christian in UK or Europe went on to murder people or send death threats because their God was insulted? No idea. What's this hypothetical scenario got to do with the individual unrepresentative scenarios you mentioned? " You said that it's not just Muslims but all the religions have extremism. I that's the case, why aren't we seeing that? Europe took so many Ukrainian refugees. Did you ever hear about them beheading people or resorting to violence because their God was mocked? " For many of us who aren't prejudice against Muslims. We're against all forms of murder, regardless of motive or of the religion of the culprit. " But when religion is the reason for someone to commit murder? And why exactly did we have riots in all western countries just because one white cop killed a black guy? Why didn't people just say murder is wrong and we should not bring race into this? " A handful of violent people are enough to take away your rights. That's what already happened in Europe. What rights do you think have been taken away from you?" Right to criticise and mock religions and Gods | |||
" Defacto laws. De facto laws is true. If you draw the painting they don't like in public, can you survive and lead a normal life? Plus we have a police force that's scared of Islam. You can burn any other religious book. But if you burn one book, you will be arrested for inciting violence. Not to mention the Wakefield incident where the mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious lunatics while the police watched. Do you have any argument to say why the de facto laws don't exist? " These aren't laws. " When was the last time a Christian in UK or Europe went on to murder people or send death threats because their God was insulted? No idea. What's this hypothetical scenario got to do with the individual unrepresentative scenarios you mentioned? You said that it's not just Muslims but all the religions have extremism. " Nope. I didn't say that. It is true though. " I that's the case, why aren't we seeing that? Europe took so many Ukrainian refugees. Did you ever hear about them beheading people or resorting to violence because their God was mocked? " You're picking very specific examples that fit your anti Islam agenda. That's what's going on here. " For many of us who aren't prejudice against Muslims. We're against all forms of murder, regardless of motive or of the religion of the culprit. But when religion is the reason for someone to commit murder? And why exactly did we have riots in all western countries just because one white cop killed a black guy? Why didn't people just say murder is wrong and we should not bring race into this? A handful of violent people are enough to take away your rights. That's what already happened in Europe. What rights do you think have been taken away from you? Right to criticise and mock religions and Gods " You have this right still. Crack on. | |||
" These aren't laws. " But they are enforced and hence "de facto" " Nope. I didn't say that. It is true though. " True but you are still struggling to find an instance when it happened recently? " You're picking very specific examples that fit your anti Islam agenda. That's what's going on here. " Then pick some examples which show other religions also do this in the modern day. You have been making allegations like this for a long time but when asked for evidence, you try to divert. " You have this right still. Crack on." No I don't. None of the British people do anymore. If we did, why is the Batley teacher still living in hiding? Pretty sure you won't answer these questions. Instead, you will be passing baseless remarks without evidence because you have been brainwashed by propaganda. | |||
"I wonder why people are surprised that far right is gaining power. Multiculturalism is hard. If you have people whose values conflict with each other and force them to live together, it hardly ends well for any of the people involved. If a country is going to allow immigrants from a country who have totally different values, the numbers must be controlled and steps must be taken to make them assimilate. Unfortunately, it's very difficult because it's natural human tendancy to form circles of people of their own type. Even if lots of Brits immigrate to other countries, you will see this behaviour. When people raised concerns about these issues, their voices were shut down. They were told that diversity is always good when in reality diversity can be good but can also get lot worse for all the people involved. If other parties do not listen to the voices, their only choice is to vote for the party that listens, which is usually the far-right parties. Then the left is somehow surprised seeing that. Netherlands, Sweden and Italy already have right wing parties in power. AfD is close to leading the polls in Germany. Marine Le Pen is leading in France. Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue." 
I was going to post on this thread but you have pretty much summed up what I would have said. Saved me a lot of typing.
| |||
" These aren't laws. But they are enforced and hence "de facto" Nope. I didn't say that. It is true though. True but you are still struggling to find an instance when it happened recently? You're picking very specific examples that fit your anti Islam agenda. That's what's going on here. Then pick some examples which show other religions also do this in the modern day. You have been making allegations like this for a long time but when asked for evidence, you try to divert. You have this right still. Crack on. No I don't. None of the British people do anymore. If we did, why is the Batley teacher still living in hiding? Pretty sure you won't answer these questions. Instead, you will be passing baseless remarks without evidence because you have been brainwashed by propaganda." There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. | |||
" There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. " Lol. That's a nice cop out to not show any examples. You haven't given any examples. You haven't actually proven any of my points wrong. They are all facts. All you do is falling back to the usual defense of "But not everyone". I explained to you that a few violent people are enough to take away my right. If I draw the forbidden picture and pose with it in public, I will either get killed or will be forced to live in hiding. " Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. "  Can you clarify who exactly belong to the "rest of us" category? Elections are decided by moderates/centrists. The fact that anti immigration parties are winning elections shows that the rational moderates and centrists have had enough with immigration. They have already seen all the facts right in front of their eyes.
So the only ones who are on your side are the brainwashed leftists crying Islamophobia for everything. | |||
"There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense." *************************************** The contributor posted points of discussion which he thought were quite valid, yet you label them 'random things', and what exactly are these 'examples' you refrain to mention, as said contributor 'won't believe them anyway'?? What was 'imagined' by the contributor..?? * Why do you mock a person by accusing them of 'tarring everyone with the same brush'...?? * Have you yourself not 'made up your own mind'..?? * Who is 'living in fear of the Muslim bogeyman'....??? * Your imagination and attitude is diabolical , yet you are quick to gripe when you feel 'insulted', which is often, I notice. You wouldn't last more than five minutes as part of an adult round the table REAL debate. You'd be asked to leave before then. | |||
"There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. *************************************** The contributor posted points of discussion which he thought were quite valid, yet you label them 'random things', and what exactly are these 'examples' you refrain to mention, as said contributor 'won't believe them anyway'?? What was 'imagined' by the contributor..?? * Why do you mock a person by accusing them of 'tarring everyone with the same brush'...?? * Have you yourself not 'made up your own mind'..?? * Who is 'living in fear of the Muslim bogeyman'....??? * Your imagination and attitude is diabolical , yet you are quick to gripe when you feel 'insulted', which is often, I notice. You wouldn't last more than five minutes as part of an adult round the table REAL debate. You'd be asked to leave before then."
I tried my best to get some evidence backing his views. But apparently it's impossible. I am done with this debate for now | |||
" There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Lol. That's a nice cop out to not show any examples. You haven't given any examples. You haven't actually proven any of my points wrong. They are all facts. All you do is falling back to the usual defense of "But not everyone". I explained to you that a few violent people are enough to take away my right. If I draw the forbidden picture and pose with it in public, I will either get killed or will be forced to live in hiding. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. Can you clarify who exactly belong to the "rest of us" category? Elections are decided by moderates/centrists. The fact that anti immigration parties are winning elections shows that the rational moderates and centrists have had enough with immigration. They have already seen all the facts right in front of their eyes.
So the only ones who are on your side are the brainwashed leftists crying Islamophobia for everything."Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though. This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position. | |||
" There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Lol. That's a nice cop out to not show any examples. You haven't given any examples. You haven't actually proven any of my points wrong. They are all facts. All you do is falling back to the usual defense of "But not everyone". I explained to you that a few violent people are enough to take away my right. If I draw the forbidden picture and pose with it in public, I will either get killed or will be forced to live in hiding. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. Can you clarify who exactly belong to the "rest of us" category? Elections are decided by moderates/centrists. The fact that anti immigration parties are winning elections shows that the rational moderates and centrists have had enough with immigration. They have already seen all the facts right in front of their eyes.
So the only ones who are on your side are the brainwashed leftists crying Islamophobia for everything.
Blimey. Where to start.
Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
"You seem to be conflating concerns over immigration with islamophobia. They are two completely different things. | |||
" There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Lol. That's a nice cop out to not show any examples. You haven't given any examples. You haven't actually proven any of my points wrong. They are all facts. All you do is falling back to the usual defense of "But not everyone". I explained to you that a few violent people are enough to take away my right. If I draw the forbidden picture and pose with it in public, I will either get killed or will be forced to live in hiding. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. Can you clarify who exactly belong to the "rest of us" category? Elections are decided by moderates/centrists. The fact that anti immigration parties are winning elections shows that the rational moderates and centrists have had enough with immigration. They have already seen all the facts right in front of their eyes.
So the only ones who are on your side are the brainwashed leftists crying Islamophobia for everything.
Blimey. Where to start.
Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
You seem to be conflating concerns over immigration with islamophobia. They are two completely different things. "The other chap hasn't said much about immigration. But he certainly has beef with Muslims. | |||
"So Geert Wilders’ PVV looks like it has come out on top in the Netherlands election. Thank goodness we left the EU and no longer have to associate with these extremists. I think he still needs others on board to form a coalition though his party does not seem as isolated as before so it's very possible. Thing is, will who ever joins him be able to temper the more extreme policies Question is what are his extreme policies." From calling Moroccans "scum" to holding competitions for cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, these maybe viewed as extreme. | |||
" Ireland next. In time. And it came very close in Spain as well. Need to start listening to the people. " The question is How do you differentiate between the people and the baying mob? | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. " I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
" If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though. " In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence" As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes? " This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position. " I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here. So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too. | |||
" There you go, your last point shows its pointless to try to show you examples of the random things you've picked out as you won't believe them anyway. Again this is all just some individual events, (some true and some imagined). You're using them to tar everyone with the same brush and basically said you've made up your mind and that's that. Lol. That's a nice cop out to not show any examples. You haven't given any examples. You haven't actually proven any of my points wrong. They are all facts. All you do is falling back to the usual defense of "But not everyone". I explained to you that a few violent people are enough to take away my right. If I draw the forbidden picture and pose with it in public, I will either get killed or will be forced to live in hiding. Fair play to you. But the rest of us who don't live in fear of the Muslim bogeyman don't have to go along with your nonsense. Can you clarify who exactly belong to the "rest of us" category? Elections are decided by moderates/centrists. The fact that anti immigration parties are winning elections shows that the rational moderates and centrists have had enough with immigration. They have already seen all the facts right in front of their eyes.
So the only ones who are on your side are the brainwashed leftists crying Islamophobia for everything.
Blimey. Where to start.
Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
You seem to be conflating concerns over immigration with islamophobia. They are two completely different things.
The other chap hasn't said much about immigration. But he certainly has beef with Muslims."Pretty sure I most of my points about what's happening in Europe. Nice try though. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
"Fair play to you. I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening. "I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening."No, you're thinking of the far right there. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening.
No, you're thinking of the far right there. "You seem a little obsessed with the phrase, far right. What parties are you calling out as far right and what specific policies are you condemning as far right? | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening."Nowadays? The left playing identity politics has been going on for long. It's only recently people started noticing it. They used to be better at covering their tracks. But that's not possible now with social media. Politicians love identity politics because it's an easy way to divide people and garner support. The right focuses on one set of identities and the left chooses the remaining side of identities. I come from India where we have identity politics(based on caste) on steroids. I used to be thoroughly left wing and deceived by the left wing promises of equality until my early twenties before a few events showed me the left are just as disgusting as the far right. Moving to the UK, I saw that things aren't any different here or in rest of Europe for that matter. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening.
No, you're thinking of the far right there. "Is the Far Right in the room with us right now Johnny? | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening.
No, you're thinking of the far right there.
Is the Far Right in the room with us right now Johnny?
"They are. Everyone who speaks against anything that the left wants is far right. That's probably you, I and many others. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening.
No, you're thinking of the far right there.
Is the Far Right in the room with us right now Johnny?
"I'm not in the room with you. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening.
No, you're thinking of the far right there.
You seem a little obsessed with the phrase, far right.
"No, I rarely use it. I more often use "further to the right". " What parties are you calling out as far right " I'm not " and what specific policies are you condemning as far right?" You might be confused here. I was correcting the person above. I don't mention I was condemning anything, anyone, or any policy. Although thank you for your confused misplaced concern. | |||
" Blimey. Where to start. Why do non-islamaphobes have to be "brainwashed"? Some of us have real life experience and don't focus on the outrage pumped out at us constantly about a small number of individual incidents. I have Muslim friends too. I know of ex Muslim who left an Islamic country because he is gay. If you think I am an Islamophobe, you should hear his views on Islam
About, "few individual incidents",I have made my point clear about how a few violent people are enough to take away your rights. You have nothing to argue against that except parroting the same sentence again.
If you really want to burn the Koran or go round insulating people you can. It's not illegal. Not sure why you'd want to though.
In practice, it's not legal. I will receive death threats. Again, I have made this clear with examples. Bur you don't have anything to argue against. Police can and will take action on me for "inciting violence"
As for why, I find religions to be the root cause of most evil in human history. In India, a group of people burn one particular Hindu religious text every year because that particular text, among everything else, talks about caste system. People who condemn caste system burn the book to show their angst. Are they Hinduphobes?
This debate seems pointless. I'm never going to change my mind and start hating Muslims. And you appear to be resolute in your position.
I can see that you aren't going to change your mind. You already fell back into the Islamophobia allegations. I personally believe that all religions have to be criticised and mocked so that they can be reformed for modern day or they can be just left behind. It looks like I focus on Islam because at this point, Islam is the only religion in UK and most of Europe where they will resort to violence when their religion is mocked. So our right to expression is at stake here.
So yeah, my views on this will not change until someone reforms the religion. Luckily, most people in Europe have realised it too.
Fair play to you.
I won't celebrate the rise of far right hate based politics in Europe or South America with you though. The world is going in the wrong direction, dividing people on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc all for control of the population. It's sickening.
I thought the Left was all about identity politics nowadays. But you are right, it is sickening.
No, you're thinking of the far right there.
You seem a little obsessed with the phrase, far right.
No, I rarely use it. I more often use "further to the right".
What parties are you calling out as far right
I'm not
and what specific policies are you condemning as far right?
You might be confused here. I was correcting the person above. I don't mention I was condemning anything, anyone, or any policy.
Although thank you for your confused misplaced concern. "Okay  | |||
"Looks like even more seats than the exit polls thought. After Melei a couple of days ago, are we seeing people saying 'were fed up'?" Yes. | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. You raise a good point. It does seem to be the biggest political issue for most alongside, financial problems, war's, global warming and health and...... Don't worry about any of that. Look at those people in that small boat over there. We've reached the point that enough people think all their problems are caused by other ordinary people, that they vote ever increasingly self serving, divisive and brutal governments. I think that trivialises the issue. I've worked in the Netherlands and they are a cool-headed, unemotional, analytical people (far more so than UK). So if they are voting for 'extreme right' parties, we'd better sit up and ask why." You have to ask why? Isn't it obvious? | |||
"Actually it's all part of the same story, but a different response. Unfettered immigration is fuelling the extreme right in Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and will spread. In the UK it was undoubtedly a driver (amongst other things) in Brexit. The more countries that are run by " right sided political parties" With a more extreme action against immigration the less pressure against decisions made I guess if Rwanda type policies are implemented. Has this been a plan all along? Are people so fed up with things they are willing to let an extreme government rule? All seems very messed up aren't we supposed to be progressing as a society not going backwards? I was having a conversation about society last night with a work colleague, she was very firm in her view that she didn’t need a crystal ball to predict how a society that was multicultural would implode, as it can be seen in conflicts all over the world. Her final view was society has become lost as it struggles for identity. I think she has a valid point, but this type of thinking gets pushed down and before you can blink, voters are voting for right wing parties whose policies are all about immigration. You raise a good point. It does seem to be the biggest political issue for most alongside, financial problems, war's, global warming and health and...... Don't worry about any of that. Look at those people in that small boat over there. We've reached the point that enough people think all their problems are caused by other ordinary people, that they vote ever increasingly self serving, divisive and brutal governments. I think that trivialises the issue. I've worked in the Netherlands and they are a cool-headed, unemotional, analytical people (far more so than UK). So if they are voting for 'extreme right' parties, we'd better sit up and ask why. You have to ask why? Isn't it obvious?" Well I think it's obvious, but it appears not everybody is reading the runes. | |||
| |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. " Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. " Assuming that people are anti immigration purely because they don't agree with you is insulting and will lead to the downfall of the EU | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. " Do you have an alternative hypothesis? | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis?" Rather than the usual ask a question, why not give us your view JTN? | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis?" It is a fairly common phenomena, on a global basis, for working class people to suffer higher levels of competition for work from immigrants. New arrivals in any country tend to find work at the bottom of the economy and so pay levels stagnate for the poorest in society. People in higher socio-economic groups tend to benefit from this competition as they pay less for manual services and they also tend to have less competition from new arrivals. The people at the bottom of the chain are obviously unhappy that they are no longer getting the same economic opportunities as those who are better educated/less exposed to work competition but any complaints are deflected by the better off as “bigoted”. You can see this playing out throughout the west at the moment - there are clearly two tiers in most economies and those who have not benefited are increasingly having to resort to non orthodox political candidates to be heard. Immigration isn’t the only cause of these two tier economies but it is a factor that many of those at the bottom of society are seeing and so it becomes an easy political tool to use. | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Rather than the usual ask a question, why not give us your view JTN?" I did, someone then said my view was lazy, so I asked for an alternative. | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Rather than the usual ask a question, why not give us your view JTN? I did, someone then said my view was lazy, so I asked for an alternative. " It is lazy because I could just say the exact same thing you said about anyone with globalist pro-imgration views but that would be lazy. I have seen you offer very little in this entire thread. Why don't you share what you feel is good about the numbers of people coming to this country, why you feel that way and what sources of information has formed your view? Do you live in a area of high imagination? Do you work in an Industry that is effected by large pools of workers looking for unskilled work are have you been lucky enough to by enlarge only feel the benefits of large numbers of people coming to the UK? | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Rather than the usual ask a question, why not give us your view JTN? I did, someone then said my view was lazy, so I asked for an alternative. It is lazy because I could just say the exact same thing you said about anyone with globalist pro-imgration views but that would be lazy. " The opposite of the anti-immigrant stance isn't "globalist pro-immigration". " I have seen you offer very little in this entire thread. " Thanks for the critique. " Why don't you share what you feel is good about the numbers of people coming to this country, why you feel that way and what sources of information has formed your view? " I haven't expressed the opinion above, so how am I supposed to justify it? " Do you live in a area of high imagination? " Yes, very high, as opposed to the areas of greatest UKIP support which statistics will tell you, and the least diverse part of the UK. " Do you work in an Industry that is effected by large pools of workers looking for unskilled work are have you been lucky enough to by enlarge only feel the benefits of large numbers of people coming to the UK? " Not sure what the industry I work in has got to do with the success of the anti-immigrant rhetoric pumped out by right wing political parties. So anyway, you don't have an alternative hypothesis to mine? | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Rather than the usual ask a question, why not give us your view JTN? I did, someone then said my view was lazy, so I asked for an alternative. It is lazy because I could just say the exact same thing you said about anyone with globalist pro-imgration views but that would be lazy. I have seen you offer very little in this entire thread. Why don't you share what you feel is good about the numbers of people coming to this country, why you feel that way and what sources of information has formed your view? Do you live in a area of high imagination? Do you work in an Industry that is effected by large pools of workers looking for unskilled work are have you been lucky enough to by enlarge only feel the benefits of large numbers of people coming to the UK? " You're wasting your time  | |||
"It is lazy because I could just say the exact same thing you said about anyone with globalist pro-imgration views but that would be lazy. I have seen you offer very little in this entire thread. Why don't you share what you feel is good about the numbers of people coming to this country, why you feel that way and what sources of information has formed your view? Do you live in a area of high imagination? Do you work in an Industry that is effected by large pools of workers looking for unskilled work are have you been lucky enough to by enlarge only feel the benefits of large numbers of people coming to the UK? You're wasting your time "************************************* Absolutely true, one cannot 'debate' with certain people.......... | |||
"It is lazy because I could just say the exact same thing you said about anyone with globalist pro-imgration views but that would be lazy. I have seen you offer very little in this entire thread. Why don't you share what you feel is good about the numbers of people coming to this country, why you feel that way and what sources of information has formed your view? Do you live in a area of high imagination? Do you work in an Industry that is effected by large pools of workers looking for unskilled work are have you been lucky enough to by enlarge only feel the benefits of large numbers of people coming to the UK? You're wasting your time
*************************************
Absolutely true, one cannot 'debate' with certain people..........
"How true | |||
" Unless the left radically changes its stance on immigration, this will continue. Or until people start thinking about who and why they're being constantly fed anti-immigrant propaganda. I honestly think education is the key, from school age. Kids need to be taught how to analyse information they receive, the sources, the purpose behind it etc. If not, the 'divide and conquer' method used by further-to-the-right parties will keep working. Assuming that people are anti-imigration because they are too small minded to critical analyse information and sources and to infer they are just victims of a right wing narrative is pretty lazy thinking.. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Rather than the usual ask a question, why not give us your view JTN? I did, someone then said my view was lazy, so I asked for an alternative. It is lazy because I could just say the exact same thing you said about anyone with globalist pro-imgration views but that would be lazy. I have seen you offer very little in this entire thread. Why don't you share what you feel is good about the numbers of people coming to this country, why you feel that way and what sources of information has formed your view? Do you live in a area of high imagination? Do you work in an Industry that is effected by large pools of workers looking for unskilled work are have you been lucky enough to by enlarge only feel the benefits of large numbers of people coming to the UK? You're wasting your time "I know, I should have known better.. | |||
