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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Anyone would think an election was coming up 
Seriou though does anyone fall for pre election shite, only for it to be reversed later or not done at all? |
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"Anyone would think an election was coming up
Seriou though does anyone fall for pre election shite, only for it to be reversed later or not done at all?"
13 years of uninterrupted rule by our Tory overlords would suggest that this kind of shit works. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Anyone would think an election was coming up
Seriou though does anyone fall for pre election shite, only for it to be reversed later or not done at all?"
It does seem popular with politicians of all persuasions to find a giveaway as elections approach. In this case though they will be short lived given the GE is only about a year away and the Labour government can simply reverse them |
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"It does seem popular with politicians of all persuasions to find a giveaway as elections approach. In this case though they will be short lived given the GE is only about a year away and the Labour government can simply reverse them"
But if there's a tax cut, and people get used to feeling more money in their pockets, will they still want to vote for the party that's promising to take it away from them? |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"It does seem popular with politicians of all persuasions to find a giveaway as elections approach. In this case though they will be short lived given the GE is only about a year away and the Labour government can simply reverse them
But if there's a tax cut, and people get used to feeling more money in their pockets, will they still want to vote for the party that's promising to take it away from them?"
Well that is the general idea, to basically say vote for us or loose your tax cut. However,although not impossible, I feel tax cuts will not save this government in the slightest and therefore subject to being reversed. Unless they are controversial tax cuts, I expect Labour not to commit to either keeping the cut or reversing prior to the election. Statements like ' we will review it when we see the full figures' is quite likely. |
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Tax cuts now are probably too little too late to save the Tories. But any reduction in the tax burden is welcome. Taxes will soar to sky high levels under Labour and the SNP. They are both far more financially incompetent than the Tories - and that's saying something. |
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"Tax cuts now are probably too little too late to save the Tories. But any reduction in the tax burden is welcome. Taxes will soar to sky high levels under Labour and the SNP. They are both far more financially incompetent than the Tories - and that's saying something. "
Since the mid 60s, the UK tax revenues as a percentage of national income has hovered between 30% and 34%. The lowest was after the recession of the early 90s. The majority of the Blair years, this figure was 32-34% and this remained until COVID times. Now we are at 36%.
Why do you think that despite the previous labour governments since WWII having lower taxes than now, will an incoming Labour government tax will soar. The most financially successful period in the UK since the war was probably in Blair years until the GLOBAL financial crisis.
Tories have lost the next election. These cuts are nothing more than a cynical "warned you so" tactic for when Labour need to reverse these premature tax cuts.
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"Tax cuts now are probably too little too late to save the Tories. But any reduction in the tax burden is welcome. Taxes will soar to sky high levels under Labour and the SNP. They are both far more financially incompetent than the Tories - and that's saying something.
Since the mid 60s, the UK tax revenues as a percentage of national income has hovered between 30% and 34%. The lowest was after the recession of the early 90s. The majority of the Blair years, this figure was 32-34% and this remained until COVID times. Now we are at 36%.
Why do you think that despite the previous labour governments since WWII having lower taxes than now, will an incoming Labour government tax will soar. The most financially successful period in the UK since the war was probably in Blair years until the GLOBAL financial crisis.
Tories have lost the next election. These cuts are nothing more than a cynical "warned you so" tactic for when Labour need to reverse these premature tax cuts.
"
I disagree, the Tories might well win the next election, the person you replied to is not atypical. Lots of people still believe that Labour are the party that borrows and hikes taxes, regardless of what reality may be.
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"Since the mid 60s, the UK tax revenues as a percentage of national income has hovered between 30% and 34%. The lowest was after the recession of the early 90s. The majority of the Blair years, this figure was 32-34% and this remained until COVID times. Now we are at 36%."
That's a measure of the amount of tax collected, not the amount of tax levied. The anti-money-laundering laws, along with the sudden switch to card payments means that there are a lot fewer ways to avoid paying tax. That's why tax revenues have gone up. Tax getting levied is actually a bit lower than it was in 2010.
"Why do you think that despite the previous labour governments since WWII having lower taxes than now, will an incoming Labour government tax will soar. The most financially successful period in the UK since the war was probably in Blair years until the GLOBAL financial crisis."
Yes, generally speaking, the best times are the points just before you realise that it's all been going wrong for the past few years, and now you need to fix it. |
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3 million food banks meals last year (51,000 in 2010)
7.7 million waiting hospital treatment (2.5M 2010)
1.6 million on social housing waiting lists (1.1M 2010)
20% children living in poverty
10,000 unrepaired dangerous tower blocks people are still living in 6 years after grenfell
£1,700,000,000,000 added to the national debt in 13 years with little to show for it except £10bn a month interest
If they think tax cuts are appropriate who’s paying for all this and when |
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"Anyone would think an election was coming up
Seriou though does anyone fall for pre election shite, only for it to be reversed later or not done at all?
It does seem popular with politicians of all persuasions to find a giveaway as elections approach. In this case though they will be short lived given the GE is only about a year away and the Labour government can simply reverse them"
Probably agree, it’s last throw of the dice for the tories. |
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"3 million food banks meals last year (51,000 in 2010)
7.7 million waiting hospital treatment (2.5M 2010)
1.6 million on social housing waiting lists (1.1M 2010)
20% children living in poverty
10,000 unrepaired dangerous tower blocks people are still living in 6 years after grenfell
£1,700,000,000,000 added to the national debt in 13 years with little to show for it except £10bn a month interest"
No 2010 comparison figure for the number of children in poverty I see. Is that because it hasn't really changed?
Poverty is defined as a household earning less than 60% of the median income. That means that as wages increase and people get better off, the poverty line gets higher. We can't eliminate poverty, because we've defined it such that it's impossible to do so.
I'm not sure how you manage to blame the government for all those people living in 'dangerous' tower blocks. |
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"Tax cuts now are probably too little too late to save the Tories. But any reduction in the tax burden is welcome. Taxes will soar to sky high levels under Labour and the SNP. They are both far more financially incompetent than the Tories - and that's saying something. "
I think the level of credibility perceived of conversatives by voters is about as low as the evidence shows they merit. Just their 13 years in power, including Truss catastrophes, highlights their paucity of competency. |
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Wow the conservative apologists set a new low
13 years of conservative rule has left us with the highest personal tax burden for 65 years
The party of fiscal prudence ??
"Tax cuts now are probably too little too late to save the Tories. But any reduction in the tax burden is welcome. Taxes will soar to sky high levels under Labour and the SNP. They are both far more financially incompetent than the Tories - and that's saying something. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"3 million food banks meals last year (51,000 in 2010)
7.7 million waiting hospital treatment (2.5M 2010)
1.6 million on social housing waiting lists (1.1M 2010)
20% children living in poverty
10,000 unrepaired dangerous tower blocks people are still living in 6 years after grenfell
£1,700,000,000,000 added to the national debt in 13 years with little to show for it except £10bn a month interest
No 2010 comparison figure for the number of children in poverty I see. Is that because it hasn't really changed?
Poverty is defined as a household earning less than 60% of the median income. That means that as wages increase and people get better off, the poverty line gets higher. We can't eliminate poverty, because we've defined it such that it's impossible to do so.
I'm not sure how you manage to blame the government for all those people living in 'dangerous' tower blocks."
I have issues with mediums in stats as it's kinda blunt (see also: gender pay gap).
But if everyone earnt the same, then there would be no one under the poverty line so I disagree it's impossible to eliminate poverty.
The current measure does, in part, make poverty relative. It's more a measure of spread than absolute poverty. |
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"Wow the conservative apologists set a new low
13 years of conservative rule has left us with the highest personal tax burden for 65 years
The party of fiscal prudence ??"
That's not true. The 1974/75 tax year saw tax start at 33% (with no tax-free allowance), and go up in steps to 83%. In addition to that, investment income above £2000 attracted an extra 15%, so some people were paying 98% tax.
What you're confusing yourself with is that we are now collecting more tax as a percentage of national income. That's down to improvements in closing loopholes and catching criminals. The government isn't charging more tax, it's letting fewer people get away without paying. |
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"I have issues with mediums in stats as it's kinda blunt (see also: gender pay gap)."
They should definitely be using the modal income, as that would be a lot more representative.
"But if everyone earnt the same, then there would be no one under the poverty line so I disagree it's impossible to eliminate poverty."
Theoretically, yes. But you can't run an economy with everyone earning the same amount. There would be no incentive to succeed, so everyone would be much worse off. |
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Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
So it's a bit like the extra nurse's they are going to find despite them already being in the NHS, or the 40 new hospitals they promised
Anyone who thinks this government are going to look after them unless they are ultra rich or in big business is sadly is daft
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have issues with mediums in stats as it's kinda blunt (see also: gender pay gap).
They should definitely be using the modal income, as that would be a lot more representative.
But if everyone earnt the same, then there would be no one under the poverty line so I disagree it's impossible to eliminate poverty.
Theoretically, yes. But you can't run an economy with everyone earning the same amount. There would be no incentive to succeed, so everyone would be much worse off."
modal would probably be the minimum wage.
I'm not suggesting communism. Just showing a % of medium doesn't mean that there always needs to be someone under the poverty line. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people"
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people? |
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"I have issues with mediums in stats as it's kinda blunt (see also: gender pay gap).
They should definitely be using the modal income, as that would be a lot more representative.
But if everyone earnt the same, then there would be no one under the poverty line so I disagree it's impossible to eliminate poverty.
Theoretically, yes. But you can't run an economy with everyone earning the same amount. There would be no incentive to succeed, so everyone would be much worse off."
The minimum wage should be set at a rate that people can actually manage on. There is merit in the call for £15 per hour.
Then all in work benefits should be stopped as they will be unnecessary. At the moment, low wages are subsided by the taxpayer - why should I pay to subsidise anyone else? |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?"
Even if those groups have been given favourable tax status (they haven't), it's not a bad thing to encourage business and rich people. It's upward wealth creation rather than dragging everybody down to the lowest common denominator. Look how Ireland has prospered through low corporate tax. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?
Even if those groups have been given favourable tax status (they haven't), it's not a bad thing to encourage business and rich people. It's upward wealth creation rather than dragging everybody down to the lowest common denominator. Look how Ireland has prospered through low corporate tax. "
Absolutely, the government should do everything ot can to widen the gap between the rich and the poor. We should try to follow the Irish model pushing the least well off in society into even more poverty while doing everything possible to support multi national corporations. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?
Even if those groups have been given favourable tax status (they haven't), it's not a bad thing to encourage business and rich people. It's upward wealth creation rather than dragging everybody down to the lowest common denominator. Look how Ireland has prospered through low corporate tax.
Absolutely, the government should do everything ot can to widen the gap between the rich and the poor. We should try to follow the Irish model pushing the least well off in society into even more poverty while doing everything possible to support multi national corporations."
Exactly, we should close down private businesses altogether and have masses of unemployed people on above-average earnings through state benefits. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?
Even if those groups have been given favourable tax status (they haven't), it's not a bad thing to encourage business and rich people. It's upward wealth creation rather than dragging everybody down to the lowest common denominator. Look how Ireland has prospered through low corporate tax.
Absolutely, the government should do everything ot can to widen the gap between the rich and the poor. We should try to follow the Irish model pushing the least well off in society into even more poverty while doing everything possible to support multi national corporations.
Exactly, we should close down private businesses altogether and have masses of unemployed people on above-average earnings through state benefits. "
Huh? No one is suggesting anything bonkers like that.
Let's focus on crushing normal people and the least well off in society for the benefit of corporations. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?
Even if those groups have been given favourable tax status (they haven't), it's not a bad thing to encourage business and rich people. It's upward wealth creation rather than dragging everybody down to the lowest common denominator. Look how Ireland has prospered through low corporate tax.
Absolutely, the government should do everything ot can to widen the gap between the rich and the poor. We should try to follow the Irish model pushing the least well off in society into even more poverty while doing everything possible to support multi national corporations.
Exactly, we should close down private businesses altogether and have masses of unemployed people on above-average earnings through state benefits.
Huh? No one is suggesting anything bonkers like that.
Let's focus on crushing normal people and the least well off in society for the benefit of corporations."
Nobody wants to 'crush' normal people, who happen to thrive in a vibrant, prosperous economy led by business and commerce. Thousands of businesses fail every year, it's a fallacy to think they get some favourable treatment. Far from it, they are burdened with tax, NI and red tape bureaucracy. If you want to see people's spirit crushed, look no further than a communist country. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?
Even if those groups have been given favourable tax status (they haven't), it's not a bad thing to encourage business and rich people. It's upward wealth creation rather than dragging everybody down to the lowest common denominator. Look how Ireland has prospered through low corporate tax.
Absolutely, the government should do everything ot can to widen the gap between the rich and the poor. We should try to follow the Irish model pushing the least well off in society into even more poverty while doing everything possible to support multi national corporations.
Exactly, we should close down private businesses altogether and have masses of unemployed people on above-average earnings through state benefits.
Huh? No one is suggesting anything bonkers like that.
Let's focus on crushing normal people and the least well off in society for the benefit of corporations.
Nobody wants to 'crush' normal people, who happen to thrive in a vibrant, prosperous economy led by business and commerce. Thousands of businesses fail every year, it's a fallacy to think they get some favourable treatment. Far from it, they are burdened with tax, NI and red tape bureaucracy. If you want to see people's spirit crushed, look no further than a communist country."
Are the only options a brutal capitalist society set up to services the needs of big corporations or Communism the only options?
The government is supposed to work in the interests of the people whom they're supposed to represent. |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people
What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?"
Offshoring profits to other taxation environments, isle man, jersey, Monaco, bvi etc
Offshoring via spv and trusts
Use of complicated company beneficial ownership structure |
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"Let's get real
Most workers have struggled with the cost of living & high tax demands on them, high fuel & food price, so mutch so that it has driven many sectors to strike for better pay.
During this time tax breaks have been given to big business & those ultra rich people"
"What tax breaks have been given to big business and ultra rich people?"
"Offshoring profits to other taxation environments, isle man, jersey, Monaco, bvi etc
Offshoring via spv and trusts
Use of complicated company beneficial ownership structure "
And which of those was given to them during this current cost of living crisis, like the original poster said above?
Tell you what, I'll make it easier, which of those was introduced by the Tories over the past 13 years? |
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First of all at the last budget tax cuts for industry was announced
We all want business & commerce in the UK but we want them to pay tax and work for our communitys
And if we want all this business in the UK how comes the government keep selling them off like the Royal Mail for eg |
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"First of all at the last budget tax cuts for industry was announced"
They were? What were these cuts?
The one I remember from the last budget was the rate of corporation tax going up from 19% to 25% - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/corporation-tax-charge-and-rates-from-1-april-2022-and-small-profits-rate-and-marginal-relief-from-1-april-2023/ |
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"First of all at the last budget tax cuts for industry was announced
We all want business & commerce in the UK but we want them to pay tax and work for our communitys
And if we want all this business in the UK how comes the government keep selling them off like the Royal Mail for eg "
Businesses DO pay tax : corporation TAX, VAT, NI. import/export tax, duties etc. Shareholders in companies pay tax on dividends. Employees pay tax and NI on earnings. As for government run companies they are a joke. Do you remember British Telecom? You had to wait 3 months for a phone to be installed, but you could have any colour you likes - provided it was grey!! |
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"First of all at the last budget tax cuts for industry was announced
They were? What were these cuts?
The one I remember from the last budget was the rate of corporation tax going up from 19% to 25% - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/corporation-tax-charge-and-rates-from-1-april-2022-and-small-profits-rate-and-marginal-relief-from-1-april-2023/"
Three cuts were introduced
The full expensing policy, up to £27 billion in tax cuts via investment and 130% post covid capital allowance scheme, first year full write down on capital expenditure.
Increase in tax free pension contributions limit from £40,000 to £60,000
Though these are lost in the face of corporation tax rises, national insurance increase, auto enrolment contributions, cut in lifetime pension allowance
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It sounds like unfunded tax cuts to me.
The only way they can offer tax cuts, and balance the budget, is by reducing expenditure or increasing borrowing. In the dying days of every Conservative governments they always reduce tax for the benefit of their richer sponsors.
Thus, when the Labour government takes over, they have no alternative but to increase tax to balance the budget. This only serves to prove the old adage that the Labour party always raises Taxes.
Depending on your political leanings you will believe one party or the other. However, no one who takes a moment to look at our political history should doubt this is the normal modus operandi of a Conservative Government. |
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"First of all at the last budget tax cuts for industry was announced"
"They were? What were these cuts?
The one I remember from the last budget was the rate of corporation tax going up from 19% to 25% - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/corporation-tax-charge-and-rates-from-1-april-2022-and-small-profits-rate-and-marginal-relief-from-1-april-2023/"
"Three cuts were introduced
The full expensing policy, up to £27 billion in tax cuts via investment and 130% post covid capital allowance scheme, first year full write down on capital expenditure."
Those 2 aren't tax cuts, They're just accounting changes. They mean that companies can write off the cost of capital expenditure straight away, rather than doing so over several years. The same amount of tax will be paid overall.
"Increase in tax free pension contributions limit from £40,000 to £60,000"
That one is a tax cut, but it's not exactly big business raking it in while the rest of us suffer, like the other guy implied. |
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"First of all at the last budget tax cuts for industry was announced
They were? What were these cuts?
The one I remember from the last budget was the rate of corporation tax going up from 19% to 25% - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/corporation-tax-charge-and-rates-from-1-april-2022-and-small-profits-rate-and-marginal-relief-from-1-april-2023/
Three cuts were introduced
The full expensing policy, up to £27 billion in tax cuts via investment and 130% post covid capital allowance scheme, first year full write down on capital expenditure.
Those 2 aren't tax cuts, They're just accounting changes. They mean that companies can write off the cost of capital expenditure straight away, rather than doing so over several years. The same amount of tax will be paid overall.
Increase in tax free pension contributions limit from £40,000 to £60,000
That one is a tax cut, but it's not exactly big business raking it in while the rest of us suffer, like the other guy implied."
Also the lifetime allowance currently £1073,000 is being abolished. This is a significant benefit to the wealthy (who chose to use it)
Up to 45% marginal rate tax relief on £60,000 annual pension contributions, inverted with tax free returns with uncapped tax free limit. |
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"Also the lifetime allowance currently £1073,000 is being abolished. This is a significant benefit to the wealthy (who chose to use it)"
Also not a tax cut. And introduced mainly to deal with the number of NHS doctors that were refusing to work because if they did it would push their pensions over the limit.
"Up to 45% marginal rate tax relief on £60,000 annual pension contributions, inverted with tax free returns with uncapped tax free limit. "
That's how pensions work. You're not taxed when you put the money in, instead you are taxed when you take it out. Raising the limits doesn't give people extra money, it just pushes the tax payment further into the future. |
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"Also the lifetime allowance currently £1073,000 is being abolished. This is a significant benefit to the wealthy (who chose to use it)
Also not a tax cut. And introduced mainly to deal with the number of NHS doctors that were refusing to work because if they did it would push their pensions over the limit.
Up to 45% marginal rate tax relief on £60,000 annual pension contributions, inverted with tax free returns with uncapped tax free limit.
That's how pensions work. You're not taxed when you put the money in, instead you are taxed when you take it out. Raising the limits doesn't give people extra money, it just pushes the tax payment further into the future."
Re the doctors... Yep that was the rationale to keep experienced docs working at a time when the NHS is depleted of ALL staff and retention is at its lowest rate ever.
But twattish Tories saw this as a route to give all wealthy workers a potential bonus.  |
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"That's how pensions work. You're not taxed when you put the money in, instead you are taxed when you take it out. Raising the limits doesn't give people extra money, it just pushes the tax payment further into the future."
"Re the doctors... Yep that was the rationale to keep experienced docs working at a time when the NHS is depleted of ALL staff and retention is at its lowest rate ever.
But twattish Tories saw this as a route to give all wealthy workers a potential bonus."
It's not a bonus, they still have to pay the tax on that extra money, it's just that they pay it in the future rather than now. |
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"That's how pensions work. You're not taxed when you put the money in, instead you are taxed when you take it out. Raising the limits doesn't give people extra money, it just pushes the tax payment further into the future.
Re the doctors... Yep that was the rationale to keep experienced docs working at a time when the NHS is depleted of ALL staff and retention is at its lowest rate ever.
But twattish Tories saw this as a route to give all wealthy workers a potential bonus.
It's not a bonus, they still have to pay the tax on that extra money, it's just that they pay it in the future rather than now."
That's a ridiculous philosophy - tomorrow never comes. It's the here and now where finances matter. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Re the NI cuts...
£60,000 per year earners will get £754 from 2p cut to national insurance. But will be hit by £1,386 from frozen tax thresholds so overall £632 worse off. Torsten Bell, Chief Executive at the Resolution Foundation, said: “The truth is taxes are up not down. These cuts are dwarfed by tax rises already underway.” |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It would appear that the conservatives are not the party of low taxes that they claim to be.
But would the opposition lower taxes? "
Oohh yeah.. very good question |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tax free threshold is still £12570 isn't it? That's staying in place for quite a few years, so with inflation everyone is getting royally screwed over.
But hey, 2% or NI contributions is better than nothing. Although this is the same party that also increased NI a year or so ago, and even wanted to bring out a whole new tax (health and social care levy).
Every single one in power should swing, and not in the wife swapping kind of way. |
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