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300,000 pro-Palestinian protesters calling for a Gaza ceasefire
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"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. " Was there a protest to release the hostages? | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems." How are those arms manufacturers share prices supposed to go up if we don't keep wars going as long as we can. | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems." You mean to say Jews, right? You just don't want to be called out as anti-Semitic. Without googling, can you name 5 wealthy Israelis? | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems. You mean to say Jews, right? You just don't want to be called out as anti-Semitic. Without googling, can you name 5 wealthy Israelis? " Not commenting on the post you are replying to, but being critical of Israel, Israelis, and the Govt of Israel is not anti-semitic. Israel is a parliamentary democracy not a Jewish theocracy. As far as I am aware you do not have to be Jewish to apply for Israeli citizenship either. | |||
"Not commenting on the post you are replying to, but being critical of Israel, Israelis, and the Govt of Israel is not anti-semitic." 100% agreed. "Israel is a parliamentary democracy not a Jewish theocracy. As far as I am aware you do not have to be Jewish to apply for Israeli citizenship either." Absolutely. However some people, in order to avoid being labelled as anti-Semitic, take a an anti Jewish trope (e.g. Jews and Jewish money control xyz) and substitute "Israeli"for "Jew". Because it is not anti-Semitic to criticise any country. While it is fair to say that there are both Jewish and Israeli lobbies funded by Jews, Israelis and Christians (in that there are all types of lobbies funded by all types of people), saying "too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems" is at best a dog whistle, with the insinuation that Jews control Western governments through money. | |||
"Not commenting on the post you are replying to, but being critical of Israel, Israelis, and the Govt of Israel is not anti-semitic. 100% agreed. Israel is a parliamentary democracy not a Jewish theocracy. As far as I am aware you do not have to be Jewish to apply for Israeli citizenship either. Absolutely. However some people, in order to avoid being labelled as anti-Semitic, take a an anti Jewish trope (e.g. Jews and Jewish money control xyz) and substitute "Israeli"for "Jew". Because it is not anti-Semitic to criticise any country. While it is fair to say that there are both Jewish and Israeli lobbies funded by Jews, Israelis and Christians (in that there are all types of lobbies funded by all types of people), saying "too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems" is at best a dog whistle, with the insinuation that Jews control Western governments through money." tbh I see the statement as being about Israel (not jews) and the same statement can be thrown at some Muslim states too. And corporations. Control may be too strong a word tho. Certainly seek to influence. | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers..." One more point. Your have just written off "both sides" as "wankers". Either you mean all people (which you probably do mean, but you will start backpedaling to "only the belligerents" now that you've been called out), meaning you really don't care about any of them at all. Or you are somehow equating two undefined groups of people, which underscores a deep level of ignorance. It's never, ever a good idea to write off huge groups of people. There's a word for that, perhaps... | |||
"tbh I see the statement as being about Israel (not jews) and the same statement can be thrown at some Muslim states too. " "Wealthy Israelis" was the statement. | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems. How are those arms manufacturers share prices supposed to go up if we don't keep wars going as long as we can." It's good for the economy. They are hiring here. The ordnance division. Good starting salary. | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems. You mean to say Jews, right? You just don't want to be called out as anti-Semitic. Without googling, can you name 5 wealthy Israelis? " See this is the easiest way to shut down a conversation… any criticism of the Israeli government is automatically seen by some as antisemitism | |||
" See this is the easiest way to shut down a conversation… any criticism of the Israeli government is automatically seen by some as antisemitism " Emphatically no. Using anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism of the Israeli government is wrong and is a low tactic used by some in the far right and disingenuous Zionists. At the same time, there are anti-Semitic tropes that enter dialogue, under the guise of anti Zionism. The poster was not criticising the Israeli government. It was aimed at "wealthy Israelis". | |||
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"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages?" Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back | |||
" See this is the easiest way to shut down a conversation… any criticism of the Israeli government is automatically seen by some as antisemitism Emphatically no. Using anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism of the Israeli government is wrong and is a low tactic used by some in the far right and disingenuous Zionists. At the same time, there are anti-Semitic tropes that enter dialogue, under the guise of anti Zionism. The poster was not criticising the Israeli government. It was aimed at "wealthy Israelis". " As an example is Saudi Arabia not sports-washing by hosting boxing matches and buying football clubs? Is that not an example of Saudis exerting soft control of power? Could the same not be said of certain Israeli citizens in purchasing soft control? As it could of any citizen of any country? | |||
" Could the same not be said of certain Israeli citizens in purchasing soft control? As it could of any citizen of any country?" 100% it could be. The comment "Without googling, can you name 5 wealthy Israelis?" Was exhibiting scepticism that this was, indeed, the case. This was specifically in reference to buying power in Western policy making. By "wealthy Israelis". | |||
"Not commenting on the post you are replying to, but being critical of Israel, Israelis, and the Govt of Israel is not anti-semitic. 100% agreed. Israel is a parliamentary democracy not a Jewish theocracy. As far as I am aware you do not have to be Jewish to apply for Israeli citizenship either. Absolutely. However some people, in order to avoid being labelled as anti-Semitic, take a an anti Jewish trope (e.g. Jews and Jewish money control xyz) and substitute "Israeli"for "Jew". Because it is not anti-Semitic to criticise any country. While it is fair to say that there are both Jewish and Israeli lobbies funded by Jews, Israelis and Christians (in that there are all types of lobbies funded by all types of people), saying "too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems" is at best a dog whistle, with the insinuation that Jews control Western governments through money." Indeed. However, there is also the reverse, equating everything to potential tropes ergo anti-semitism shuts down conversation. It is an objective fact that much of the media in the USA is controlled (or was established) by people who are Jews. It is a fact that much of the world’s banking system (or banks) were established by people who were Jews. Therefore it is not a stretch to say that Jews exert influence (in the West at least) via the media and banking system. That is not unique to Jews of course. Over the last 50 years the Arab oil states have used their wealth to gain influence and power (and revenue streams for a post oil world) throughout the world, and in particular the west. I cannot comment (only speculate) about anyone’s motivations for saying anything in relation to Jews/Israel/Arabs/Muslims, but such comments can still be objectively true. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. " As many claim to want peace then I would hope many of them would give the same support to releasing the hostages but that may be just wishful thinking on my part | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. As many claim to want peace then I would hope many of them would give the same support to releasing the hostages but that may be just wishful thinking on my part" I tend to agree, the vast majority want peace in that region and that would be equally.. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. As many claim to want peace then I would hope many of them would give the same support to releasing the hostages but that may be just wishful thinking on my part I tend to agree, the vast majority want peace in that region and that would be equally.." There is actually a good documentary on Netflix called the human factor. It documents all the attempts to make peace, and has interviews with people who were actually in the room. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. As many claim to want peace then I would hope many of them would give the same support to releasing the hostages but that may be just wishful thinking on my part" Here is the rub, the pro Palestine marches are focused on land, ceasefire and a show of strength. I would be happy to know I have got that wrong, because it would mean dialogue would be possible, if I’m correct, the hostages taken are not a consideration of those that march in the name of Palestinians. | |||
" I tend to agree, the vast majority want peace in that region and that would be equally.." Everyone in the region wants peace: Palestinians Israelis (Jews) Israelis (Arabs) Christian Arabs Muslim Arabs (Sunni) Muslim Arabs (Shi'ite) Other Muslims Other Arabs Kurds Persians The issue is what that peace looks like, and how it comes about. Who is left alive. What borders look like. What religion is allowed to be practiced. That is the real contention. Very few can agree on this. But everyone genuinely wants peace. It's just difficult to define that peace. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. As many claim to want peace then I would hope many of them would give the same support to releasing the hostages but that may be just wishful thinking on my part Here is the rub, the pro Palestine marches are focused on land, ceasefire and a show of strength. I would be happy to know I have got that wrong, because it would mean dialogue would be possible, if I’m correct, the hostages taken are not a consideration of those that march in the name of Palestinians. " My post is more a theory than actual fact. The theory being that someone wanting peace would be able to recognise that hostages being held is a major barrier to peace being achieved and therefore would actively support the release of the hostages. So much for theories I guess | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back" Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price." In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. " They offered to move them. But you know. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. They offered to move them. But you know." Medals all round for maybe not killing more babies.  | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems. You mean to say Jews, right? You just don't want to be called out as anti-Semitic. Without googling, can you name 5 wealthy Israelis? Not commenting on the post you are replying to, but being critical of Israel, Israelis, and the Govt of Israel is not anti-semitic. Israel is a parliamentary democracy not a Jewish theocracy. As far as I am aware you do not have to be Jewish to apply for Israeli citizenship either."
There a mistake in thinking that raising issues with Israel is the same as having lissues with judaism, the 2 are not related.
There are many people of all religions living in Israel. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. " I don't know but I went today to observe. I asked a man who was handing out posters, "Can the Israeli hostages be released as well?" He answered, "Of course. Absolutely. All hostages". My impression was that it was a womens' protest in quite a large part. There were new parents with their babies or young children in pushchairs. From Hyde Park at midday to Vauxhall at 4 pm, everyone I saw wanted peace. Yes, there are controversies. Having said that, I am pretty sure that the people who started at Hyde Park today were sincere in their conscience and were genuine that they would like the violence, all violence, to stop. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. They offered to move them. But you know. Medals all round for maybe not killing more babies. "Good maybe a unit citation too for taking a strategic objective. | |||
" My post is more a theory than actual fact. The theory being that someone wanting peace would be able to recognise that hostages being held is a major barrier to peace being achieved and therefore would actively support the release of the hostages. So much for theories I guess " Netanyahu is playing a game of chicken with Hamas. Hamas has no interest in holding women and children on ideological grounds, it simply makes them look bad. But they were willing to take that hit on pragmatic grounds, reasoning that they could bargain them with Israel. Netanyahu has somewhat flipped the script of hostage negotiations. He's saying that he will not accept anything other than a full release of all people. This is for two reasons. Firstly, once women and children are released, there is less moral support for the rest, especially those from the military. Secondly, and much more importantly, he wants to undo precedents set by Israel that they will disproportionately reward hostage taking. This is causing some tension within Israel. There are two camps, the smaller one (spearheaded by family members of the hostages) that says "get hostages back at all costs" and another (much bigger one) saying "do not reward hostage taking, or it imperils us in the future". As such, he is saying: "release all hostages and surrender, and the bombing will stop". He actually means this, but Hamas won't do it. He knows this, but feels it's a reasonable position. So whilst it's technically true that Hamas could prevent all of the civilian deaths (and could have done so since day 1), it's unrealistic and is never going to happen. Hamas would probably hand over all hostages should all of their demands be met. So technically Netanyahu could also stop the war if he acquiesced to their demands and return of the hostages were his only goal. But he claims that his primary goal is the eradication of Hamas, either through defeat or surrender. Without any other factors, Hamas's defeat is inevitable, over time (one could debate this and even debate whether this way will create "more Hamas"). There is no question that the current leadership will be removed, however. Their only option is to somehow gain a ceasefire. The Israeli position is that (from a purely military and strategic standpoint, as opposed to a humanitarian one) a ceasefire only benefits Hamas leadership, and is of no value to Israel. Moreover, the thinking is that this ceasefire will simply allow Hamas to come back stronger, case-in-point of October 7, which followed previous ceasefires. So the hostages are just one facet of this whole tragedy, for Israelis and Palestinians. Many will disagree, but the key sticking point is Hamas. Those most terribly affected are the innocent Palestinians who didn't want Hamas in the first place, who have nobody on their side. The Israelis see them as collateral damage, Hamas sees them as PR wins or human shields, the West sees them as emotional entertainment (yes) and the Arab states see them as disposable trash in an ideological way against Israel. Ironically, the happiest Palestinians are the ones who are integrated into Israeli society, or somehow made it to the West. | |||
" My post is more a theory than actual fact. The theory being that someone wanting peace would be able to recognise that hostages being held is a major barrier to peace being achieved and therefore would actively support the release of the hostages. So much for theories I guess Netanyahu is playing a game of chicken with Hamas. Hamas has no interest in holding women and children on ideological grounds, it simply makes them look bad. But they were willing to take that hit on pragmatic grounds, reasoning that they could bargain them with Israel. Netanyahu has somewhat flipped the script of hostage negotiations. He's saying that he will not accept anything other than a full release of all people. This is for two reasons. Firstly, once women and children are released, there is less moral support for the rest, especially those from the military. Secondly, and much more importantly, he wants to undo precedents set by Israel that they will disproportionately reward hostage taking. This is causing some tension within Israel. There are two camps, the smaller one (spearheaded by family members of the hostages) that says "get hostages back at all costs" and another (much bigger one) saying "do not reward hostage taking, or it imperils us in the future". As such, he is saying: "release all hostages and surrender, and the bombing will stop". He actually means this, but Hamas won't do it. He knows this, but feels it's a reasonable position. So whilst it's technically true that Hamas could prevent all of the civilian deaths (and could have done so since day 1), it's unrealistic and is never going to happen. Hamas would probably hand over all hostages should all of their demands be met. So technically Netanyahu could also stop the war if he acquiesced to their demands and return of the hostages were his only goal. But he claims that his primary goal is the eradication of Hamas, either through defeat or surrender. Without any other factors, Hamas's defeat is inevitable, over time (one could debate this and even debate whether this way will create "more Hamas"). There is no question that the current leadership will be removed, however. Their only option is to somehow gain a ceasefire. The Israeli position is that (from a purely military and strategic standpoint, as opposed to a humanitarian one) a ceasefire only benefits Hamas leadership, and is of no value to Israel. Moreover, the thinking is that this ceasefire will simply allow Hamas to come back stronger, case-in-point of October 7, which followed previous ceasefires. So the hostages are just one facet of this whole tragedy, for Israelis and Palestinians. Many will disagree, but the key sticking point is Hamas. Those most terribly affected are the innocent Palestinians who didn't want Hamas in the first place, who have nobody on their side. The Israelis see them as collateral damage, Hamas sees them as PR wins or human shields, the West sees them as emotional entertainment (yes) and the Arab states see them as disposable trash in an ideological way against Israel. Ironically, the happiest Palestinians are the ones who are integrated into Israeli society, or somehow made it to the West." Well said. But you will get the usual pundits but but babies are dying. They forget the horrors of last generations that have gave them that security. Israel is taking that risk of world condemnation. Just to have the same. So who are we to judge. | |||
" My post is more a theory than actual fact. The theory being that someone wanting peace would be able to recognise that hostages being held is a major barrier to peace being achieved and therefore would actively support the release of the hostages. So much for theories I guess Netanyahu is playing a game of chicken with Hamas. Hamas has no interest in holding women and children on ideological grounds, it simply makes them look bad. But they were willing to take that hit on pragmatic grounds, reasoning that they could bargain them with Israel. Netanyahu has somewhat flipped the script of hostage negotiations. He's saying that he will not accept anything other than a full release of all people. This is for two reasons. Firstly, once women and children are released, there is less moral support for the rest, especially those from the military. Secondly, and much more importantly, he wants to undo precedents set by Israel that they will disproportionately reward hostage taking. This is causing some tension within Israel. There are two camps, the smaller one (spearheaded by family members of the hostages) that says "get hostages back at all costs" and another (much bigger one) saying "do not reward hostage taking, or it imperils us in the future". As such, he is saying: "release all hostages and surrender, and the bombing will stop". He actually means this, but Hamas won't do it. He knows this, but feels it's a reasonable position. So whilst it's technically true that Hamas could prevent all of the civilian deaths (and could have done so since day 1), it's unrealistic and is never going to happen. Hamas would probably hand over all hostages should all of their demands be met. So technically Netanyahu could also stop the war if he acquiesced to their demands and return of the hostages were his only goal. But he claims that his primary goal is the eradication of Hamas, either through defeat or surrender. Without any other factors, Hamas's defeat is inevitable, over time (one could debate this and even debate whether this way will create "more Hamas"). There is no question that the current leadership will be removed, however. Their only option is to somehow gain a ceasefire. The Israeli position is that (from a purely military and strategic standpoint, as opposed to a humanitarian one) a ceasefire only benefits Hamas leadership, and is of no value to Israel. Moreover, the thinking is that this ceasefire will simply allow Hamas to come back stronger, case-in-point of October 7, which followed previous ceasefires. So the hostages are just one facet of this whole tragedy, for Israelis and Palestinians. Many will disagree, but the key sticking point is Hamas. Those most terribly affected are the innocent Palestinians who didn't want Hamas in the first place, who have nobody on their side. The Israelis see them as collateral damage, Hamas sees them as PR wins or human shields, the West sees them as emotional entertainment (yes) and the Arab states see them as disposable trash in an ideological way against Israel. Ironically, the happiest Palestinians are the ones who are integrated into Israeli society, or somehow made it to the West. Well said. But you will get the usual pundits but but babies are dying. They forget the horrors of last generations that have gave them that security. Israel is taking that risk of world condemnation. Just to have the same. So who are we to judge. " Every body here complaining about Palestinians Hamas and Israelis. Need to realize there is no difference between the axis and allies. Yet the same people prefer Hamas ideology . Would you prefer the Nazi ideology compared to what you have now? How many children perished in WW2? Accept one or the other. There is no grey area. The grey area has been going on for decades. | |||
"Every body here complaining about Palestinians Hamas and Israelis. Need to realize there is no difference between the axis and allies. Yet the same people prefer Hamas ideology . Would you prefer the Nazi ideology compared to what you have now? How many children perished in WW2? Accept one or the other. There is no grey area. The grey area has been going on for decades." Nazi ideology was arguably much easier to eradicate. It was not underpinned by a major religion (even if that religion has been twisted and usurped by them) or supported by as many regimes. It is also conflated with the genuine humanitarian concerns of the Palestinians in general, which gets really confusing. Hence, people see Hamas as standing up for the rights of Palestinians. It could be, but it isn't. | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems." | |||
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"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems. You mean to say Jews, right? You just don't want to be called out as anti-Semitic. Without googling, can you name 5 wealthy Israelis? Not commenting on the post you are replying to, but being critical of Israel, Israelis, and the Govt of Israel is not anti-semitic. Israel is a parliamentary democracy not a Jewish theocracy. As far as I am aware you do not have to be Jewish to apply for Israeli citizenship either."
Judaism is a religion,
The isreali government policy is the problem. | |||
"Every body here complaining about Palestinians Hamas and Israelis. Need to realize there is no difference between the axis and allies. Yet the same people prefer Hamas ideology . Would you prefer the Nazi ideology compared to what you have now? How many children perished in WW2? Accept one or the other. There is no grey area. The grey area has been going on for decades. Nazi ideology was arguably much easier to eradicate. It was not underpinned by a major religion (even if that religion has been twisted and usurped by them) or supported by as many regimes. It is also conflated with the genuine humanitarian concerns of the Palestinians in general, which gets really confusing. Hence, people see Hamas as standing up for the rights of Palestinians. It could be, but it isn't." Agreed it's just one country . The issue when you are fighting people that do not understand that the alternative is better. The pri with Arabs ( no offense to Arabs). They are tribal worse than us. Whoever is in power are to be feared. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. They offered to move them. But you know." Only when it got so bad that the hospital ran out of fuel to power emergency generators they had for electricity… and maybe they realised that for incubators and other specialist equipment, you kinda need electricity Which then takes us back to the point that this Israeli government have put a blockage on any fuel going into Gaza since October 7th…. Any you need fuel for generators for both electricity and water! | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. They offered to move them. But you know. Only when it got so bad that the hospital ran out of fuel to power emergency generators they had for electricity… and maybe they realised that for incubators and other specialist equipment, you kinda need electricity Which then takes us back to the point that this Israeli government have put a blockage on any fuel going into Gaza since October 7th…. Any you need fuel for generators for both electricity and water! " Tanks Fabio snipers surrounding the hospital. It's a military objective. A target that caused this in the first place. A command and control center. Your empathy is misplaced. So go ahead and whine all you want. Just like others. Israel gave options. You all are not listening. They are dead set on ending it. You are living in a country that stacked more bodies then any country on the planet. Israel is choosing their righteous approach just like the one you are living in. Why should you judge? They want the same.Name one Arab country that takes in Western values? I'll wait. The clock is ticking. Anyone? | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. Was there a protest to release the hostages? Adolf netanyahu rejected the hostage for ceasefire deal so clearly the continual bombardment of Palestine was never about getting the hostages back Nentanyahu has said since the atrocities of October the 7th. "We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come." “You must remember what Amalek did to you, says our Holy Bible,” There's no doubt he doesn't just want Hamas alone to pay the price. In fairness. The IDF has said they might not kill lots of babies today at the Palestinian hospital which has no water or electricity. Sure some have died already, but you know. They offered to move them. But you know. Only when it got so bad that the hospital ran out of fuel to power emergency generators they had for electricity… and maybe they realised that for incubators and other specialist equipment, you kinda need electricity Which then takes us back to the point that this Israeli government have put a blockage on any fuel going into Gaza since October 7th…. Any you need fuel for generators for both electricity and water! Tanks Fabio snipers surrounding the hospital. It's a military objective. A target that caused this in the first place. A command and control center. Your empathy is misplaced. So go ahead and whine all you want. Just like others. Israel gave options. You all are not listening. They are dead set on ending it. You are living in a country that stacked more bodies then any country on the planet. Israel is choosing their righteous approach just like the one you are living in. Why should you judge? They want the same.Name one Arab country that takes in Western values? I'll wait. The clock is ticking. Anyone? " Thats just my thoughts. Been there I seen how they treat women the LGBTQ community. Misplaced thoughts. People seem to prefer Hamas. Well Israel wants to delete Hamas so I'll support that. I'll look through those ashes because of my support. It better for future generations. It's worth the pain and chaos. It's time to end it. So the choices are Israel or Hamas. | |||
" My post is more a theory than actual fact. The theory being that someone wanting peace would be able to recognise that hostages being held is a major barrier to peace being achieved and therefore would actively support the release of the hostages. So much for theories I guess Netanyahu is playing a game of chicken with Hamas. Hamas has no interest in holding women and children on ideological grounds, it simply makes them look bad. But they were willing to take that hit on pragmatic grounds, reasoning that they could bargain them with Israel. Netanyahu has somewhat flipped the script of hostage negotiations. He's saying that he will not accept anything other than a full release of all people. This is for two reasons. Firstly, once women and children are released, there is less moral support for the rest, especially those from the military. Secondly, and much more importantly, he wants to undo precedents set by Israel that they will disproportionately reward hostage taking. This is causing some tension within Israel. There are two camps, the smaller one (spearheaded by family members of the hostages) that says "get hostages back at all costs" and another (much bigger one) saying "do not reward hostage taking, or it imperils us in the future". As such, he is saying: "release all hostages and surrender, and the bombing will stop". He actually means this, but Hamas won't do it. He knows this, but feels it's a reasonable position. So whilst it's technically true that Hamas could prevent all of the civilian deaths (and could have done so since day 1), it's unrealistic and is never going to happen. Hamas would probably hand over all hostages should all of their demands be met. So technically Netanyahu could also stop the war if he acquiesced to their demands and return of the hostages were his only goal. But he claims that his primary goal is the eradication of Hamas, either through defeat or surrender. Without any other factors, Hamas's defeat is inevitable, over time (one could debate this and even debate whether this way will create "more Hamas"). There is no question that the current leadership will be removed, however. Their only option is to somehow gain a ceasefire. The Israeli position is that (from a purely military and strategic standpoint, as opposed to a humanitarian one) a ceasefire only benefits Hamas leadership, and is of no value to Israel. Moreover, the thinking is that this ceasefire will simply allow Hamas to come back stronger, case-in-point of October 7, which followed previous ceasefires. So the hostages are just one facet of this whole tragedy, for Israelis and Palestinians. Many will disagree, but the key sticking point is Hamas. Those most terribly affected are the innocent Palestinians who didn't want Hamas in the first place, who have nobody on their side. The Israelis see them as collateral damage, Hamas sees them as PR wins or human shields, the West sees them as emotional entertainment (yes) and the Arab states see them as disposable trash in an ideological way against Israel. Ironically, the happiest Palestinians are the ones who are integrated into Israeli society, or somehow made it to the West. Well said. But you will get the usual pundits but but babies are dying. They forget the horrors of last generations that have gave them that security. Israel is taking that risk of world condemnation. Just to have the same. So who are we to judge. Every body here complaining about Palestinians Hamas and Israelis. Need to realize there is no difference between the axis and allies. " Yes this is what we've been saying the whole time. " Yet the same people prefer Hamas ideology . " You contradicted yourself. And I haven't seen anyone on here supporting Hamas. Has there been? " Would you prefer the Nazi ideology compared to what you have now? How many children perished in WW2? Accept one or the other. There is no grey area. The grey area has been going on for decades." Who are the Nazis in this metaphor? | |||
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"The people who were horrifically murdered and defiled on 7 October belonged to the left-leaning, secular segment of Israeli society; many of them were activists for peaceful coexistence." This is yet another way in which we know that Hamas seeks violence and genocide, without any desire for peace. A rational player looking for peace would not commit these atrocities against potential partners. And these people made themselves the spokespeople for the Palestinians of Gaza. A large portion of Israel's left have flipped over to support this war, which would have been unthinkable six months ago. Netanyahu is finished after this, but the whole country has been dragged to the right. | |||
"Peacekeepers should have been sent in long ago to separate them as both sides are utter wankers but unfortunately too much money is spent by wealthy Israelis in western political systems." How many and from where? Hamas would view them as occupiers and would have been at war with them as soon as they arrived. | |||
"The people who were horrifically murdered and defiled on 7 October belonged to the left-leaning, secular segment of Israeli society; many of them were activists for peaceful coexistence. This is yet another way in which we know that Hamas seeks violence and genocide, without any desire for peace. A rational player looking for peace would not commit these atrocities against potential partners. And these people made themselves the spokespeople for the Palestinians of Gaza. A large portion of Israel's left have flipped over to support this war, which would have been unthinkable six months ago. Netanyahu is finished after this, but the whole country has been dragged to the right." Spot on assessment. Hamas has widespread support in Gaza, Palestinians have been taught from birth, no peace, Israel must be destroyed. It’s an ideology in which deaths of their own civilians are not avoided but encouraged, the bodies have more value as propaganda than as living citizens. Even breeding is being used as a weapon, a birth rate being sustained entirely by outside aid. Despite the losses of life inflicted by Israel the birth rate is such that the population of Gaza is much the same as it was a month ago. | |||
"Really good to see so many people turning out to call for a ceasefire Peace is the only way forward & it can be achieved if politicians have the will to achieve it. You only need to look at the Berlin Wall & the peace in Northan Ireland to show what can be done Anyone who can't see the good in a peace rally really need to give their heads a wobble Peace not hate " Palestinians don’t want peace, they are committed to the genocide and destruction of Israel, regardless of what it costs them. There are people who can change, there are those that never will. Hamas have made clear their intent to repeat the last attack, to keep firing missiles. Peace now would only result in Israeli deaths later. | |||
"How many of these would have turned out in support of the release of 240 Israeli hostages. " It's already been done in isreal.. not here..but.. I condemn bothe sides. They've both committed war crimes..but hamas are terrorists and you'd expect barbaric shit from them. Isreal is a sovereign state and should be above terrorism but they have lowered their stsndards and just as evil as hamas. The best revenge is to be not like your enemies. Isreal has shamed itself here, over the last 70 years too | |||
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