FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Benefits of Brexit
Benefits of Brexit
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper" You could go on chatting even more nonsense? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense?" Pot kettle….kettle pot  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot "Excuse me? I've made no comment on this topic yet... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot
Excuse me?
I've made no comment on this topic yet..."Nonsense | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot
Excuse me?
I've made no comment on this topic yet...
Nonsense"I'm not sure if you struggle with yourself eyesight or you've got a problem from a different thread. I have made no comment on this particular thread, if you have a problem with me from a different thread then take it there  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot
Excuse me?
I've made no comment on this topic yet...
Nonsense
I'm not sure if you struggle with yourself eyesight or you've got a problem from a different thread.
I have made no comment on this particular thread, if you have a problem with me from a different thread then take it there "I’m sorry Did you not just post that another poster on this thread who made a perfectly cogent post was talking nonsense without any engagement with his post? Seems to me that my eyesight is adequate to my needs….how’s your memory? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot
Excuse me?
I've made no comment on this topic yet...
Nonsense
I'm not sure if you struggle with yourself eyesight or you've got a problem from a different thread.
I have made no comment on this particular thread, if you have a problem with me from a different thread then take it there
I’m sorry
Did you not just post that another poster on this thread who made a perfectly cogent post was talking nonsense without any engagement with his post?
Seems to me that my eyesight is adequate to my needs….how’s your memory? "I think our definitions of cogent are very different. He is free to reply and I'll tell him which bits are nonsense. You said... pot kettle, kettle pot. Would you like to tell me which part of my post was similar to his? Or did you just come to argue with me? I'm still waiting for your reply on the GBeebies thread  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot
Excuse me?
I've made no comment on this topic yet...
Nonsense
I'm not sure if you struggle with yourself eyesight or you've got a problem from a different thread.
I have made no comment on this particular thread, if you have a problem with me from a different thread then take it there
I’m sorry
Did you not just post that another poster on this thread who made a perfectly cogent post was talking nonsense without any engagement with his post?
Seems to me that my eyesight is adequate to my needs….how’s your memory?
I think our definitions of cogent are very different.
He is free to reply and I'll tell him which bits are nonsense.
You said... pot kettle, kettle pot.
Would you like to tell me which part of my post was similar to his? Or did you just come to argue with me?
I'm still waiting for your reply on the GBeebies thread "Sorry I didn’t realise you had replied to that To be honest I started looking for Ava/Eva and got bored looking for the complete interview as the search just kept bringing up the same clips Fox is an obnoxious arse and I really dislike what he does. Geoff Norcott is occasionally funny but my values are probably not his. Ava/Eva I don’t know enough about to comment fully on but at the end of the day she was attacked for how she looks by a man who has rather too much self love going on and too much access to sycophantic bully boys like Wooton….perhaps Wooton is an acolyte of Fox or maybe he just likes him? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are a lot of mitigating factors, such as covid, the war in Ukraine etc so you have to pick apart what was a consequence of brexit GDP Fell 5.5% right after brexit and has never recovered. The, we were paying 350m a week into the EU but we got around 270m of that back plus other benefits. We are now are losing 400m a week in lost trade. The 3 main players in the global stock market were new York, London and Japan. We have now been replaced by Paris. The promised factory to build batteries for teslas was assured to be built regardless of brexit has uturned and building it in the EU. I expected the fishing industry to thrive, however due to most of our catch bring exported to the EU it wasn't cost effective to send out as many boats. So the largest fish processing plant in Grimsby has shutdown (yeah that surprised me) Sunderland voted 80% leave despite the Nissan car plant being one of its biggest employers. They were losing money so were going to relocate to the EU. Boris gave them 100m to help them out but they are in trouble again. I could go on but cutting free trade with our closest neighbours was the stupidest thing we ever done and its someone else's fault. Even Mr toad says it has been a failure! I'm.sick of hearing "this wasn't the brexit I voted for" hmmmm I seem to remember only 2 options on the ballet paper You could go on chatting even more nonsense? Pot kettle….kettle pot
Excuse me?
I've made no comment on this topic yet...
Nonsense
I'm not sure if you struggle with yourself eyesight or you've got a problem from a different thread.
I have made no comment on this particular thread, if you have a problem with me from a different thread then take it there
I’m sorry
Did you not just post that another poster on this thread who made a perfectly cogent post was talking nonsense without any engagement with his post?
Seems to me that my eyesight is adequate to my needs….how’s your memory?
I think our definitions of cogent are very different.
He is free to reply and I'll tell him which bits are nonsense.
You said... pot kettle, kettle pot.
Would you like to tell me which part of my post was similar to his? Or did you just come to argue with me?
I'm still waiting for your reply on the GBeebies thread
Sorry I didn’t realise you had replied to that
To be honest I started looking for Ava/Eva and got bored looking for the complete interview as the search just kept bringing up the same clips
Fox is an obnoxious arse and I really dislike what he does. Geoff Norcott is occasionally funny but my values are probably not his. Ava/Eva I don’t know enough about to comment fully on but at the end of the day she was attacked for how she looks by a man who has rather too much self love going on and too much access to sycophantic bully boys like Wooton….perhaps Wooton is an acolyte of Fox or maybe he just likes him?"This isn't the place for this discussion. Go to the other thread if you want to continue it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Remoaners still whinging. Worth it for that alone. Also remoaners ignoring covid and blaming everything on Brexit. " Oh mate. You lost too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in getting into an online argument I was simply stating a few facts. For any further information use Google." You really should check Google for some of those 'facts'. Genuinely. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in getting into an online argument I was simply stating a few facts. For any further information use Google. You really should check Google for some of those 'facts'. Genuinely. " I did, you stick with gb news and the daily hiel | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in getting into an online argument I was simply stating a few facts. For any further information use Google. You really should check Google for some of those 'facts'. Genuinely. I did, you stick with gb news and the daily hiel " You don't wanna get into an argument but try to insult my news sources because you think you're right
Stick around mate, you'll be loved round here | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in getting into an online argument I was simply stating a few facts. For any further information use Google. You really should check Google for some of those 'facts'. Genuinely. I did, you stick with gb news and the daily hiel You don't wanna get into an argument but try to insult my news sources because you think you're right
Stick around mate, you'll be loved round here "What line of work are you in? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in getting into an online argument I was simply stating a few facts. For any further information use Google. You really should check Google for some of those 'facts'. Genuinely. I did, you stick with gb news and the daily hiel You don't wanna get into an argument but try to insult my news sources because you think you're right
Stick around mate, you'll be loved round here
What line of work are you in?"What difference does that make? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. " It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. " I can't be bothered with this anymore so I'm out. Please feel free to claim you won the argument. Good day | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all "Oh there's more than a few angry remainers too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news " Yeah some people are still desperately hanging on to the brexit dream despite reality. What a time to be alive. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news " Now actual results are known and they are nothing like the poor predictions that got so many people jumping up and down, the UK is far better than thought, which to me is good news. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news Now actual results are known and they are nothing like the poor predictions that got so many people jumping up and down, the UK is far better than thought, which to me is good news. " It's good that Brexit is slightly less shit than expected? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news Now actual results are known and they are nothing like the poor predictions that got so many people jumping up and down, the UK is far better than thought, which to me is good news. " But we’re still worse off than we would have been if we’d remained. Financially and socially. Getting beat 3-0 is better than getting beat 5-0 I guess, but it’s all relative. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news Now actual results are known and they are nothing like the poor predictions that got so many people jumping up and down, the UK is far better than thought, which to me is good news. But we’re still worse off than we would have been if we’d remained. Financially and socially. Getting beat 3-0 is better than getting beat 5-0 I guess, but it’s all relative." If its larger than before covid then it's larger than when we left, no? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tabloids have a way of spinning things. If I lose a £20 on the way to work but find £5 on the way up I celebrate as I'm now £5 richer" It's not the tabloids, it's the official figures compared to the predictions | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. " But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news Now actual results are known and they are nothing like the poor predictions that got so many people jumping up and down, the UK is far better than thought, which to me is good news. It's good that Brexit is slightly less shit than expected?" Imagine how the French and Germans feel being beaten by little old U.K. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’" We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. " Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. " Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. " I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. " If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. " Because your question was nonsense: Are we worse off now than the day we left the EU? (The answer is yes btw - though Covid also plays a role) The pertinent question is ‘are we worse off than had we remained in the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. Because your question was nonsense: Are we worse off now than the day we left the EU? (The answer is yes btw - though Covid also plays a role) The pertinent question is ‘are we worse off than had we remained in the EU. " The answer is our economy is smaller than the day we left the EU? Your pertinent question doesn't have a definitive answer. Why are the 'experts' always wrong if they aren't guessing (they call it forecasting)? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Reporters comment on the UK economy being larger than before Covid and recovering much faster than France or Germany. Are we seeing the benefits of Brexit here? It's all over the news Now actual results are known and they are nothing like the poor predictions that got so many people jumping up and down, the UK is far better than thought, which to me is good news. It's good that Brexit is slightly less shit than expected? Imagine how the French and Germans feel being beaten by little old U.K." They're not though. We've just made back some of the ground we lost after the collective act of self harm. In the bigger picture, we're still way behind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. Because your question was nonsense: Are we worse off now than the day we left the EU? (The answer is yes btw - though Covid also plays a role) The pertinent question is ‘are we worse off than had we remained in the EU. The answer is our economy is smaller than the day we left the EU? Your pertinent question doesn't have a definitive answer. Why are the 'experts' always wrong if they aren't guessing (they call it forecasting)?" You asked ‘are we worse off’ Yes. We are - though there are factors other than Brexit at play in that question, of course. But Brexit is as vital a part as any other. As per the link above - Brexit is responsible for a third of food inflation, and that’s without full border checks in place. Genuine question, does anyone feel better off now than they did in 2019? I get paid more now than I did then, but find that I have less and less at the end of every month to put into savings (and I’m one of the lucky ones that can put money into savings). Now anecdote isn’t data - but I suspect I’m far, far from alone. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. Because your question was nonsense: Are we worse off now than the day we left the EU? (The answer is yes btw - though Covid also plays a role) The pertinent question is ‘are we worse off than had we remained in the EU. The answer is our economy is smaller than the day we left the EU? Your pertinent question doesn't have a definitive answer. Why are the 'experts' always wrong if they aren't guessing (they call it forecasting)? You asked ‘are we worse off’ Yes. We are - though there are factors other than Brexit at play in that question, of course. But Brexit is as vital a part as any other. As per the link above - Brexit is responsible for a third of food inflation, and that’s without full border checks in place. Genuine question, does anyone feel better off now than they did in 2019? I get paid more now than I did then, but find that I have less and less at the end of every month to put into savings (and I’m one of the lucky ones that can put money into savings). Now anecdote isn’t data - but I suspect I’m far, far from alone. " Ah but how do we measure 'worse/better off' as a country? Pretty sure we use our economy to answer that question. Do I feel better off now? No. That wasn't the case last year though. Is that Brexit lag? Covid lag? The war? All I know is I didn't feel any worse off for the first 18 months. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. " What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead "So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead
So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah"Did I say that? I said my daughters found it funnier than I did. I thought what Fox said was beyond. I don't believe it deserves the attention it's getting though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead
So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah
Did I say that? I said my daughters found it funnier than I did. I thought what Fox said was beyond. I don't believe it deserves the attention it's getting though."*beyond crass | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead
So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah
Did I say that? I said my daughters found it funnier than I did. I thought what Fox said was beyond. I don't believe it deserves the attention it's getting though.
*beyond crass"Stop deflected and answer yes or no | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead
So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah
Did I say that? I said my daughters found it funnier than I did. I thought what Fox said was beyond. I don't believe it deserves the attention it's getting though.
*beyond crass
Stop deflected and answer yes or no"
You're trying to put words in my mouth about something that has nothing to do with this topic.
Would I find it funny? No. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead
So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah
Did I say that? I said my daughters found it funnier than I did. I thought what Fox said was beyond. I don't believe it deserves the attention it's getting though.
*beyond crass
Stop deflected and answer yes or no
You're trying to put words in my mouth about something that has nothing to do with this topic.
Would I find it funny? No."That's all I needed to hear, I didn't try I backed you into a corner and put words in your mouth. As for the private message I sent you, it's legit I'm ex forces and now work as close protection for MPs. You're out of your depth. I bid you good night | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh christ I promised myself I wouldn't look at this again. I got my Facebook suspended today by feeding some gammon some facts. He had no answers so told me I went off topic as it was about the two gb news presenters getting sacked for their sexest and offensive comments on TV. He done the free speech, harmless joke, bit of banter etc so I told him I had a daughter and wouldn't like anything like that said about her Also checked his profile and he also had a daughter so I asked him if the same comments where said about his daughter on national TV would he brush it off as banter. He then reported me for bullying him so I got banned for 6 days. What's any of that got to do with this? I have 2 daughters and a wife, they all found it funnier than I did. You don't wanna have a conversation with my youngest daughter about 'the way the world is' if you think I'm a dickhead
So you'd find it funny if the same thing was said about one of your daughters on national TV? Yeah? "who would shag that" hah hah
Did I say that? I said my daughters found it funnier than I did. I thought what Fox said was beyond. I don't believe it deserves the attention it's getting though.
*beyond crass
Stop deflected and answer yes or no
You're trying to put words in my mouth about something that has nothing to do with this topic.
Would I find it funny? No.
That's all I needed to hear, I didn't try I backed you into a corner and put words in your mouth. As for the private message I sent you, it's legit I'm ex forces and now work as close protection for MPs. You're out of your depth. I bid you good night "You're out of your depth, good night | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all "We should be angry? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?"Yep. All those promises and none delivered. I’d be livid, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid, "There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?"You were lied to, promised things that were not deliverable, used to achieve an aim that was never about any of the "brexit benefits" that were touted. If I had believed that stuff and voted leave, I would be livid that it was all bollocks. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie)."There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
"Don't you feel, as someone who voted for Brexit, its up to Amelie what she thought was a promise and what she thought was an idea? You definitely don't get to dictate how someone else interprets something. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
Don't you feel, as someone who voted for Brexit, its up to Amelie what she thought was a promise and what she thought was an idea?
You definitely don't get to dictate how someone else interprets something. "I mean of course everyone is entitled to make what they like of what is pledged - but I’d say that Johnson stating that the “ Northern Ireland border will be 'absolutely unchanged‘ is a pretty unarguable statement, for example. And if (as quite rightly pointed out) politicians lie, why would one accept that as a valid justification for leaving the EU? (As presumably some would have). There are dozens of these - saving the fishing/farming industries, 40 trade deals at a minute past midnight etc. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
Don't you feel, as someone who voted for Brexit, its up to Amelie what she thought was a promise and what she thought was an idea?
You definitely don't get to dictate how someone else interprets something.
I mean of course everyone is entitled to make what they like of what is pledged - but I’d say that Johnson stating that the “ Northern Ireland border will be 'absolutely unchanged‘ is a pretty unarguable statement, for example.
And if (as quite rightly pointed out) politicians lie, why would one accept that as a valid justification for leaving the EU? (As presumably some would have).
There are dozens of these - saving the fishing/farming industries, 40 trade deals at a minute past midnight etc."I mean you can say whatever you like but that's doesn't make it right. I'd agree that 'absolutely unchanged' would be an unarguable statement. Maybe she felt that particular issue didn't affect her. I know it hasn't me. As I said, you have no right to dictate how anyone, and by that I mean anyone, interprets anything. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here’s another doozie of a lie straight from the vote leave manifesto: “We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave” Note the term ‘will’ - that’s a promise, not a suggestion. " When did the legal process start and when did the UK and EU enter negotiations? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here’s another doozie of a lie straight from the vote leave manifesto: “We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave” Note the term ‘will’ - that’s a promise, not a suggestion. When did the legal process start and when did the UK and EU enter negotiations?" The legal process started with article 50. Long before terms were finalised. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here’s another doozie of a lie straight from the vote leave manifesto: “We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave” Note the term ‘will’ - that’s a promise, not a suggestion. When did the legal process start and when did the UK and EU enter negotiations? The legal process started with article 50. Long before terms were finalised." But had they negotiated? It's all in the words, you see. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here’s another doozie of a lie straight from the vote leave manifesto: “We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave” Note the term ‘will’ - that’s a promise, not a suggestion. When did the legal process start and when did the UK and EU enter negotiations? The legal process started with article 50. Long before terms were finalised. But had they negotiated? It's all in the words, you see. " Indeed. I, and I suspect most people with a broad understanding of the English language would take ‘we will negotiate the terms before…’ as meaning ‘we won’t start the legal process until we’re clear on what the outcome will be’…. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here’s another doozie of a lie straight from the vote leave manifesto: “We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave” Note the term ‘will’ - that’s a promise, not a suggestion. When did the legal process start and when did the UK and EU enter negotiations? The legal process started with article 50. Long before terms were finalised. But had they negotiated? It's all in the words, you see. Indeed. I, and I suspect most people with a broad understanding of the English language would take ‘we will negotiate the terms before…’ as meaning ‘we won’t start the legal process until we’re clear on what the outcome will be’…." Again, you can suspect. It doesn't make you right. You think it's a promise, maybe others don't. That's what I've been saying, isn't it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just checked because me memory is a bit hazy. Article 50 was triggered in March 2017. Negotiations began in June 2017." Do you know if any 'informal' talks began before that? I suspect you don't. Neither do I btw. I don't even care tbh, I just don't like people telling others how they should think. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just checked because me memory is a bit hazy. Article 50 was triggered in March 2017. Negotiations began in June 2017. Do you know if any 'informal' talks began before that? I suspect you don't. Neither do I btw. I don't even care tbh, I just don't like people telling others how they should think. " Informal talks would be irrelevant. I don’t like having rights removed by charlatans and liars. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just checked because me memory is a bit hazy. Article 50 was triggered in March 2017. Negotiations began in June 2017. Do you know if any 'informal' talks began before that? I suspect you don't. Neither do I btw. I don't even care tbh, I just don't like people telling others how they should think. Informal talks would be irrelevant. I don’t like having rights removed by charlatans and liars. " They wouldn't be irrelevant. It could be said that negotiations were underway, even if informal. We will never know either way. It’s not worth getting your blood pressure up for. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just checked because me memory is a bit hazy. Article 50 was triggered in March 2017. Negotiations began in June 2017. Do you know if any 'informal' talks began before that? I suspect you don't. Neither do I btw. I don't even care tbh, I just don't like people telling others how they should think. Informal talks would be irrelevant. I don’t like having rights removed by charlatans and liars. They wouldn't be irrelevant. It could be said that negotiations were underway, even if informal. We will never know either way. It’s not worth getting your blood pressure up for. " I sometimes feel sorry for ignorant people like you. But I have seen my brothers shot dead in Iraq and had a bullet removed from my thigh. I then go on to further serve my country whilst you sit sit on your ass being a keyboard warrior! You're not worth my blood , sweat and tears | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just checked because me memory is a bit hazy. Article 50 was triggered in March 2017. Negotiations began in June 2017. Do you know if any 'informal' talks began before that? I suspect you don't. Neither do I btw. I don't even care tbh, I just don't like people telling others how they should think. Informal talks would be irrelevant. I don’t like having rights removed by charlatans and liars. They wouldn't be irrelevant. It could be said that negotiations were underway, even if informal. We will never know either way. It’s not worth getting your blood pressure up for. I sometimes feel sorry for ignorant people like you. But I have seen my brothers shot dead in Iraq and had a bullet removed from my thigh. I then go on to further serve my country whilst you sit sit on your ass being a keyboard warrior! You're not worth my blood , sweat and tears" You nothing about me or my history. Don't worry I won't DM you flexing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
"I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision."This is very true. It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into. Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation. "I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received). Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive."Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors? But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow people are still arguing hard about this lol, its happend and it aint getting changed for a good 20-30 years, good to see the same old insults getting thrown around at each side though its very entertaining" We’ll rejoin the single market before then. I suspect we’ll never rejoin the EU fully. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. Because your question was nonsense: Are we worse off now than the day we left the EU? (The answer is yes btw - though Covid also plays a role) The pertinent question is ‘are we worse off than had we remained in the EU. The answer is our economy is smaller than the day we left the EU? Your pertinent question doesn't have a definitive answer. Why are the 'experts' always wrong if they aren't guessing (they call it forecasting)? You asked ‘are we worse off’ Yes. We are - though there are factors other than Brexit at play in that question, of course. But Brexit is as vital a part as any other. As per the link above - Brexit is responsible for a third of food inflation, and that’s without full border checks in place. Genuine question, does anyone feel better off now than they did in 2019? I get paid more now than I did then, but find that I have less and less at the end of every month to put into savings (and I’m one of the lucky ones that can put money into savings). Now anecdote isn’t data - but I suspect I’m far, far from alone. " I'm better of financially even after inflation, have better job security and to date the only thing I not been able to buy in the shops regularly was loo roll but that was during the covid silly season. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out. "You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda. In fact my vote was based on many things (a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it  ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are we actually worse off than 31/01/2020 @ 10:59pm? I mean actually worse off, not 'what we would've been'. But worse off than we would have been is the important factor, since it was a binary decision. We were told ‘no possible downside to Brexit’ We would have been? You mean woulda/coulda/shoulda have been. Well given there are 27 other EU nation’s worth of data to extrapolate from, it’s not exactly guesswork. It’s ok to admit that we’re worse off than we would have been for leaving the EU. Even ardent and prominent brexiters have admitted that. Given that it's all guesswork which is actually wrong more often than not I'm happy to say we'll never actually know. You can listen to the 'experts' if you like but I'll use real life. We don't have to agree on it. I mean you can say it’s guesswork. I suppose you might even believe it, but it’s really not. The only quibble is by how much we’ve been impacted, but literally nobody thinks we haven’t been impacted. If its not guesswork why is it always wrong? I haven't did we haven't been impacted. I asked a question which you failed to answer. Because your question was nonsense: Are we worse off now than the day we left the EU? (The answer is yes btw - though Covid also plays a role) The pertinent question is ‘are we worse off than had we remained in the EU. The answer is our economy is smaller than the day we left the EU? Your pertinent question doesn't have a definitive answer. Why are the 'experts' always wrong if they aren't guessing (they call it forecasting)? You asked ‘are we worse off’ Yes. We are - though there are factors other than Brexit at play in that question, of course. But Brexit is as vital a part as any other. As per the link above - Brexit is responsible for a third of food inflation, and that’s without full border checks in place. Genuine question, does anyone feel better off now than they did in 2019? I get paid more now than I did then, but find that I have less and less at the end of every month to put into savings (and I’m one of the lucky ones that can put money into savings). Now anecdote isn’t data - but I suspect I’m far, far from alone. I'm better of financially even after inflation, have better job security and to date the only thing I not been able to buy in the shops regularly was loo roll but that was during the covid silly season. " I remember as a child, we used scrunched up newspapers if we ran out of loo roll. I didn't have to revert to those days lol, which is fortunate as I don't buy newspapers. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere "I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into." I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me."You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda' | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda' "I don’t believe all did. I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around. "Are you saying 700k believed propaganda? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?"I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes. We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result. "And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead? Here's something that might blow your mind.... Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped. There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way. They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to. "Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again. So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result. "What would have affected the vote (not necessarily affected the result) would have been a greater number of people voting. We have a political apathy in this country. Having stated that, if I'm remembering correctly, a greater number of people turned out to vote than in a GE. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. " You’ve made a very good point here, though I’m not sure it’s the one you intended. The leave campaigns offered all things to all people - ‘leave’ was whatever you wanted it to be. There was only one ‘remain’ It was a master stroke in winning a referendum, but as we’ve seen, it meant that ultimately Brexit would fail as politicians scrambled to deliver on the undefined outcome | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973."Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. You’ve made a very good point here, though I’m not sure it’s the one you intended. The leave campaigns offered all things to all people - ‘leave’ was whatever you wanted it to be. There was only one ‘remain’ It was a master stroke in winning a referendum, but as we’ve seen, it meant that ultimately Brexit would fail as politicians scrambled to deliver on the undefined outcome" I made exactly the point I wanted to make. Being that my commentary on this is the belief Johnny has that every brexit voter swallowed propaganda. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
"He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that. "Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy. Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There absolutely should have been a defined plan for leaving the EU, but that would have required a definite (and publicised) idea of what leave meant prior to the referendum. Vote leave and Leave.EU weren’t stupid enough to tell the public what leave would mean - it would have prevented them from running dual campaigns aimed at different audiences. " That would've required a 'deal' before even knowing whether the public wanted to leave or not. Impossible. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There absolutely should have been a defined plan for leaving the EU, but that would have required a definite (and publicised) idea of what leave meant prior to the referendum. Vote leave and Leave.EU weren’t stupid enough to tell the public what leave would mean - it would have prevented them from running dual campaigns aimed at different audiences. That would've required a 'deal' before even knowing whether the public wanted to leave or not. Impossible. " Have we worked out why referendums are bad yet? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs."The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There absolutely should have been a defined plan for leaving the EU, but that would have required a definite (and publicised) idea of what leave meant prior to the referendum. Vote leave and Leave.EU weren’t stupid enough to tell the public what leave would mean - it would have prevented them from running dual campaigns aimed at different audiences. That would've required a 'deal' before even knowing whether the public wanted to leave or not. Impossible. Have we worked out why referendums are bad yet? " Who is we? I'm not a fan of referendums in the vast majority of cases. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard. "You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader.""I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader."
I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect. "Well you said it yourself, I won't call you names. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader."
I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect.
Well you said it yourself, I won't call you names."It’s true though. It’s not a paper for the politically naive. I thought that much was obvious | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader."
I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect.
Well you said it yourself, I won't call you names.
It’s true though. It’s not a paper for the politically naive. I thought that much was obvious "Being politically naive makes someone 'lower intellect'? You're doing well here mate | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader."
I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect.
Well you said it yourself, I won't call you names.
It’s true though. It’s not a paper for the politically naive. I thought that much was obvious
Being politically naive makes someone 'lower intellect'?
You're doing well here mate "I didn’t say that. I said “I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect” - The ‘or’ is an important word. It really is bizarre the way you try to spin things on here. You should consider a career in politics. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader."
I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect.
Well you said it yourself, I won't call you names.
It’s true though. It’s not a paper for the politically naive. I thought that much was obvious
Being politically naive makes someone 'lower intellect'?
You're doing well here mate
I didn’t say that. I said “I understand how the eye could be confusing for those who don’t follow politics. Or (without wishing to sound too much of a nob) those of lower intellect” - The ‘or’ is an important word.
It really is bizarre the way you try to spin things on here. You should consider a career in politics."I replied re. you calling yourself a know about the lower intellect comment. You then replied, it's true though. It's not for the politically naive. I assumed we were on the same subject. I haven't spun anything | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader.""Quoting from an American source? Just asking as the spelling is American. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Shawn, I'd prefer you stay out of my inbox and keep it to the forum. First of all you said you used Google and now you DM me a photo that certainly doesnt prove you 'hear things'. Which one is it it mate? Judging by the fact that you've tried to insult me and 'my' news sources without any basis, I'm gonna assume you're just another angry remainer that doesn't know what he's arguing about. It should be the brexiters who are angry, after all
We should be angry?
Yep. All those promises and none delivered.
I’d be livid,
There were promises? Don't say the bus and NHS cos they weren't in a position to make those promises (and politicians lie).
There were myriad promises. I’m afraid you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t qualify.
I'm afraid I get to say what I listened to and didn't. You don't get to say why I made my decision.
This is very true.
It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into.
Still, they should be much more pissed off than anyone else about the situation.
I was waiting for three pieces of info to drop through my letterbox - those purporting the benefits of remaining (received), those purporting the benefits of leaving (not received), and information supposedly giving a balanced argument of both sides and or the differences between them (received).
Ironic the "propaganda" for leaving was the only one I didn't receive.
Are you suggesting that leave voters based their decision on which leaflets they didn't get through their doors?
But I agree. It doesn't matter what convinced them or you to vote leave. Unless it's JRM or another disaster capitalist who wanted to continue to avoid paying taxes, then we all lost out.
You're intelligent enough to realise that my vote was not based on propaganda.
In fact my vote was based on many things
(a) immigration to be looked at, have control over the borders (that's working well isn't it ). My thoughts on control is so we allow people in at a rate that matches growth of the infrastructure to support an increased population. Asylum seeking is a totally different ballgame.
(b) I'm old enough to understand the premise of the original common market. Sadly the EU had gone beyond that. Ever read the Bible about the multi-headed beast in revelations? I want Britain with it's own identity, not swallowed up by the beast . Our politicians are bloody crap, we don't need EU politicians in addition to them. At least we can vote out this self-serving, corrupt shit for a show party we have at present.
(c) I wasn't having Corbyn to tell me what to do and how to act. He should have gone after the second GE failure.
(d)on the remain info, there many capitalists advocating it. Sorry not sorry but people with lots of money voting in a particular way has me heading in the opposite direction.
So, stick your assumptions elsewhere
I didn't assume anything. I said specifically "It doesn't matter which pieces of propaganda leave voters bought into."
I have no opinion on why anyone chose to vote leave. Other people like to make fun of the reasons like you posted. That's not especially interesting to me.
You assumed every single leave voter bought into 'propaganda'
I don’t believe all did.
I believe enough did. 700k is a relatively small number to turn around.
Are you saying 700k believed propaganda?
I’m comfortable with that assumption, yes.
We know that some brexiters assumed that we’d remain in the single market based upon the leave campaign. That alone may have been enough to swing the result.
And. Are you sure all those 700k would've voted Remain instead?
Here's something that might blow your mind....
Over 14m people voted to leave the EU. Every single one of them for their own reasons. Most of them would've understood that whilst they had ideal scenarios, they wouldn't necessarily have believed they would get their ideal, more so hoped.
There are leave voters out here complaining 'this isn't my brexit' but most just ignore that because they are adults and understand that in life you don't always get your own way.
They're now living with the result of the vote, getting on with life, just as I'd advise most people to.
Ian Hislop made a very good point about this. Just because a referendum result goes one way, it doesn’t mean the ‘loser’ has to shut up and stop making the argument. After a general election the losing side doesn’t shut up for 5 years until they’re allowed to argue their side again.
So no. Remainers shouldn’t just accept that they lost and get on with it. Eurosceptics didn’t shut up after 1973.
Ian Hislop
He's quite a funny guy tbf.
He’s also a very sharp political analyst, but I’m sure you know that.
Ian has made a career out if satire. I'm not sure that qualifies him as an analyst. As I said, he's a funny guy.
Maybe it's just that I prefer not to live my life by what-ifs.
The private eye is political analysis of the highest standard.
You're forgetting media bias
"Overall, we rate Private Eye Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of pseudoscience as well as mixing satire and real news that is confusing to the reader."
Quoting from an American source? Just asking as the spelling is American."Media Bias Fact Check are indeed an American source. They do cover worldwide though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality " The top half of your post is fact. Some of your 'reality' is fact and some opinion. Square this one for me if you will. You say it's time MPs stopped bickering and started cooperating to try make a success of it. The very next paragraph you say you will not stop telling people it's on them. It seems like do as I say, not as I do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality The top half of your post is fact. Some of your 'reality' is fact and some opinion. Square this one for me if you will. You say it's time MPs stopped bickering and started cooperating to try make a success of it. The very next paragraph you say you will not stop telling people it's on them. It seems like do as I say, not as I do." Ok let me give you an example, a workmate of mine regrets his vote. His hobby is collecting and restoring old vintage motor bikes. He is damn good and even has a showroom. He spends a lot of time on ebay etc tracking down parts and he moaned that since brexit he's had to pay up to £150 postage from Europe. I reminded him he voted brexit but he said "I didn't think this would happen, I voted for brexit to stop the bloody foreigners coming over here. Well he knows now. What about small businesses like this that have had to close due to delivery charges. Why shouldn't people be held accountable for their actions | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality " If you're blaming the brexit we got on Brexiteers, you're not going to make friends . You can blame me, I will still sleep at night. 
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality If you're blaming the brexit we got on Brexiteers, you're not going to make friends . You can blame me, I will still sleep at night.
"Johnson and his team were all Brexiters. It sad their deal. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality The top half of your post is fact. Some of your 'reality' is fact and some opinion. Square this one for me if you will. You say it's time MPs stopped bickering and started cooperating to try make a success of it. The very next paragraph you say you will not stop telling people it's on them. It seems like do as I say, not as I do. Ok let me give you an example, a workmate of mine regrets his vote. His hobby is collecting and restoring old vintage motor bikes. He is damn good and even has a showroom. He spends a lot of time on ebay etc tracking down parts and he moaned that since brexit he's had to pay up to £150 postage from Europe. I reminded him he voted brexit but he said "I didn't think this would happen, I voted for brexit to stop the bloody foreigners coming over here. Well he knows now. What about small businesses like this that have had to close due to delivery charges. Why shouldn't people be held accountable for their actions" I get it. When he moans, you remind him he voted for it. Still not sure how it actually helps. BTW, I'm what you'd class as a small business. If people are charging him £150 for postage then they're taking the piss out of him. He should go to UPS himself | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality If you're blaming the brexit we got on Brexiteers, you're not going to make friends . You can blame me, I will still sleep at night.
Johnson and his team were all Brexiters. It sad their deal."No Boris was pro EU but saw a chance to become pm. He admitted it "off the record" to an independent journalist in 2018 and also said brexit was a bad idea but it was too late to turn back | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Benefits of brexit Read all 120 posts and struggling to see any " Esc0rts are doing well servicing the truckers waiting in the mega park ups waiting to cross the channel. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality If you're blaming the brexit we got on Brexiteers, you're not going to make friends . You can blame me, I will still sleep at night.
Johnson and his team were all Brexiters. It sad their deal.
No Boris was pro EU but saw a chance to become pm. He admitted it "off the record" to an independent journalist in 2018 and also said brexit was a bad idea but it was too late to turn back"In 2019 it was enforced that to be a conservative MP candidate you had to sign up to his Brexit deal. Yes he used Brexit as his springboard to PM, but his deal was his deal - and it was as hard a Brexit as we could have got without going full retard. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality The top half of your post is fact. Some of your 'reality' is fact and some opinion. Square this one for me if you will. You say it's time MPs stopped bickering and started cooperating to try make a success of it. The very next paragraph you say you will not stop telling people it's on them. It seems like do as I say, not as I do. Ok let me give you an example, a workmate of mine regrets his vote. His hobby is collecting and restoring old vintage motor bikes. He is damn good and even has a showroom. He spends a lot of time on ebay etc tracking down parts and he moaned that since brexit he's had to pay up to £150 postage from Europe. I reminded him he voted brexit but he said "I didn't think this would happen, I voted for brexit to stop the bloody foreigners coming over here. Well he knows now. What about small businesses like this that have had to close due to delivery charges. Why shouldn't people be held accountable for their actions I get it. When he moans, you remind him he voted for it. Still not sure how it actually helps. BTW, I'm what you'd class as a small business. If people are charging him £150 for postage then they're taking the piss out of him. He should go to UPS himself" He's rich he can afford it! Small businesses like backstreet car mechanics. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality If you're blaming the brexit we got on Brexiteers, you're not going to make friends . You can blame me, I will still sleep at night.
Johnson and his team were all Brexiters. It sad their deal.
No Boris was pro EU but saw a chance to become pm. He admitted it "off the record" to an independent journalist in 2018 and also said brexit was a bad idea but it was too late to turn back
In 2019 it was enforced that to be a conservative MP candidate you had to sign up to his Brexit deal.
Yes he used Brexit as his springboard to PM, but his deal was his deal - and it was as hard a Brexit as we could have got without going full retard. "We held all the cards remember? Shame they didn't take the jokers out | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok one more post not facts but my opinion Nigel farage was campaigning for many years to get the UK out of the EU so anyone that wanted this would have voted ukip. They would then take votes away from the tories but not enough for a victory so we would have had a Labour government. Cameron knowing this also promised a referendum but probably thought leave wouldn't win and in my opinion the remain campaign didn't campaign hard enough. Corbyn could have got off the fence and done something but I believe he was a leaver but wouldn't say so as he would lose his left wing voters Cameron stated he would stay pm regardless of the result which he u turned and resigned. It was an option poll and not legally binding but no pm would ignore the vote as it would be going against democracy. May refused any borders so couldn't reach a deal. Boris took over and put a temporary border in the Irish sea temporarily. This was taken away so NI had full access to uk trade and EU. This was hailed as a huge victory for Boris despite it just giving back NI what it had in the first place. Now reality Everyone knows brexit has been a disaster bit won't admit it. It has became the elephant in the room during pmqs. As much as I'd like a time machine to go back to 2016 it won't happen. Brexit cannot be reversed! We would need to apply to rejoin. We would probably have to adopt the euro and would never get the deal we had before. The process would take about 10 years. Keir starmer has stated if elected he has no plans to rejoin. In short we are not going back anytime soon. Its time the mps stopped bickering and worked together to make the most of what we have. Maybe they can make it work and make Britain great again. But most mps have their own agenda so I doubt it. No I will not stop telling people who voted for brexit and conplain about it that its on them. The same way my family in NI complian but still vote DUP???? But I accept reality The top half of your post is fact. Some of your 'reality' is fact and some opinion. Square this one for me if you will. You say it's time MPs stopped bickering and started cooperating to try make a success of it. The very next paragraph you say you will not stop telling people it's on them. It seems like do as I say, not as I do. Ok let me give you an example, a workmate of mine regrets his vote. His hobby is collecting and restoring old vintage motor bikes. He is damn good and even has a showroom. He spends a lot of time on ebay etc tracking down parts and he moaned that since brexit he's had to pay up to £150 postage from Europe. I reminded him he voted brexit but he said "I didn't think this would happen, I voted for brexit to stop the bloody foreigners coming over here. Well he knows now. What about small businesses like this that have had to close due to delivery charges. Why shouldn't people be held accountable for their actions I get it. When he moans, you remind him he voted for it. Still not sure how it actually helps. BTW, I'm what you'd class as a small business. If people are charging him £150 for postage then they're taking the piss out of him. He should go to UPS himself He's rich he can afford it! Small businesses like backstreet car mechanics." He's rich, he can afford it, yet moans about it? I'm not sure I follow. It is a nice anecdote though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Farage also suggested we’d stay in the CU/SM on various occasions. Dan Hannan said ‘absolutely nobody is talking about leaving the single market’ We were sold a lemon. " Oi! Everything farage said has cane true We would save so much money and energy prices would drop We could get better trade deals by trading globally The EU will dissolve every countries armed forces and have one EU army Turkey will join the EU The other countries will see our success and leave and we can trade directly with them I'd love 5 mins in a room with him | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? " The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? " The EU is a political union. Not a trade union. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member." Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. " It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. " The idea of the names are to make it easier to understand. The UK and USA, most people have a basic understanding. Unless the UK isn't a politcal bloc of sovereign nations or the USA isn't a political bloc of sovereign states... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? " The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. The idea of the names are to make it easier to understand. The UK and USA, most people have a basic understanding. Unless the UK isn't a politcal bloc of sovereign nations or the USA isn't a political bloc of sovereign states..." I agree there’s a general lack of understanding about the EU in this country. That’s why 17.4million voted leave | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. The idea of the names are to make it easier to understand. The UK and USA, most people have a basic understanding. Unless the UK isn't a politcal bloc of sovereign nations or the USA isn't a political bloc of sovereign states... I agree there’s a general lack of understanding about the EU in this country. That’s why 17.4million voted leave "What have I told you about generalisations | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sunak , on Keunssberg Show , claimed that having Freeports , ( like the one in Teeside ) was a Brexit benefit , , if he has to lie to claim a benefit it shows he is clearly struggling to find genuine benefits " You might need to explain why you think that's a lie. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. " Well at least you are being honest and agreeing it is a political organisation, and less to do with trade. Just today there is a headline "Poor French-German relations are blocking EU decisions". For me that sums it up. The EU is the age-old dream of a Franco-Prussian Empire in all but name. The UK was hoodwinked into joining, but fortunately there were (just) enough British voters to see through the ruse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sunak , on Keunssberg Show , claimed that having Freeports , ( like the one in Teeside ) was a Brexit benefit , , if he has to lie to claim a benefit it shows he is clearly struggling to find genuine benefits You might need to explain why you think that's a lie." Because Freeports existed in the U.K as an EU member (as late as 2012) and there are tens of Freeports in the EU now. It is a lie. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!!" Indeed. Anonymous politicians in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. Well at least you are being honest and agreeing it is a political organisation, and less to do with trade. Just today there is a headline "Poor French-German relations are blocking EU decisions". For me that sums it up. The EU is the age-old dream of a Franco-Prussian Empire in all but name. The UK was hoodwinked into joining, but fortunately there were (just) enough British voters to see through the ruse." The EU, and EEC were never just about trade. That was made clear in the 70’s when we joined. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. Well at least you are being honest and agreeing it is a political organisation, and less to do with trade. Just today there is a headline "Poor French-German relations are blocking EU decisions". For me that sums it up. The EU is the age-old dream of a Franco-Prussian Empire in all but name. The UK was hoodwinked into joining, but fortunately there were (just) enough British voters to see through the ruse. The EU, and EEC were never just about trade. That was made clear in the 70’s when we joined. " The term 'Common Market' ring a bell? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians " Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. " in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. " Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. " Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out." I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The fine was handed down by the CJEU, and the offence dates back to when we were still an EU member. Probably better to call it The United States of Europe or The United Europe. People may have a better understanding of what it is they actually do. It’s a political bloc of sovereign nations. I’m not sure the name matters. Well at least you are being honest and agreeing it is a political organisation, and less to do with trade. Just today there is a headline "Poor French-German relations are blocking EU decisions". For me that sums it up. The EU is the age-old dream of a Franco-Prussian Empire in all but name. The UK was hoodwinked into joining, but fortunately there were (just) enough British voters to see through the ruse. The EU, and EEC were never just about trade. That was made clear in the 70’s when we joined. The term 'Common Market' ring a bell?" Ted Heath used the phrase ‘ever closer Union’ did he not? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. " Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project." A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project." If someone doesn’t know or understand how something works, is it prudent to offer that person a vote on whether we should be involved with that thing? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project." Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. " Are you sure the vast majority who voted leave, didn't understand how the EU worked? Vast majority is an awful lot of people not understanding something, maybe that was the problem after all, the lack of EU understanding... Do you think there could have been more done from the EU in making people aware of the benefits of membership / good work they did? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. Are you sure the vast majority who voted leave, didn't understand how the EU worked? Vast majority is an awful lot of people not understanding something, maybe that was the problem after all, the lack of EU understanding... Do you think there could have been more done from the EU in making people aware of the benefits of membership / good work they did?" The EU and U.K could have done a far better job in explaining the good that EU membership brought us. As could the UK media. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. Are you sure the vast majority who voted leave, didn't understand how the EU worked? Vast majority is an awful lot of people not understanding something, maybe that was the problem after all, the lack of EU understanding... Do you think there could have been more done from the EU in making people aware of the benefits of membership / good work they did?" I dunno, you're the only one talking about the "vast majority" in terms of not understanding the EU. So I can't answer the question. Other EU countries teach kids in school what the EU is and how it functions. I suspect that would make the anti-EU rhetoric that has been pumped into our media, much easier to see through. But no, I don't think it should be the EUs responsibility to educate people about what it is and how it works. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sunak , on Keunssberg Show , claimed that having Freeports , ( like the one in Teeside ) was a Brexit benefit , , if he has to lie to claim a benefit it shows he is clearly struggling to find genuine benefits" "You might need to explain why you think that's a lie." "Because Freeports existed in the U.K as an EU member (as late as 2012) and there are tens of Freeports in the EU now. It is a lie." We did have freeports in the UK before 2012, but we dropped the legislation that allowed them because it was too difficult to set up rules that worked for trade, but didn't clash with EU state aid regulations. Now that those rules don't apply, we can have freeports that work the way we want them to. I don't know what Sunak's exact words were, but if he said "we can have freeports that suit British businesses", it may have been true. Does anyone have a link to a transcript of the show? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. " Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. " Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. " A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. " I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. " But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat?" “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” - 56% wrong “And so far, do you think that Brexit has been more of a success or more of a failure?” -62% more of a failure https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45733-most-britons-say-brexit-has-been-more-failure | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat? “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” - 56% wrong “And so far, do you think that Brexit has been more of a success or more of a failure?” -62% more of a failure https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45733-most-britons-say-brexit-has-been-more-failure " Do you think they're wrong to say 'MOST Britons say Brexit has been more failure'? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat? “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” - 56% wrong “And so far, do you think that Brexit has been more of a success or more of a failure?” -62% more of a failure https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45733-most-britons-say-brexit-has-been-more-failure Do you think they're wrong to say 'MOST Britons say Brexit has been more failure'?" Yes, the article is badly worded. It should say ‘Poling suggests…’ or suchlike. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. " ************************************ Of course the EU was heading toward federalism, anyone could see that 1) 'Common market' 2)'European Economic Community (EEC) 3) 'European Union' (EU) Ultimately, USE (United States of Europe) And all the above is MY (very well) considered opinion, as always. So, make of it what you will. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. ************************************ Of course the EU was heading toward federalism, anyone could see that 1) 'Common market' 2)'European Economic Community (EEC) 3) 'European Union' (EU) Ultimately, USE (United States of Europe) And all the above is MY (very well) considered opinion, as always. So, make of it what you will." We joined the common market knowing about ‘ever closer union’. We voted to remain in the common market knowing about ‘ever closer Union’ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat? “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” - 56% wrong “And so far, do you think that Brexit has been more of a success or more of a failure?” -62% more of a failure https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45733-most-britons-say-brexit-has-been-more-failure Do you think they're wrong to say 'MOST Britons say Brexit has been more failure'? Yes, the article is badly worded. It should say ‘Poling suggests…’ or suchlike." But it doesn't. Yet you're happy to agree with them. It's strange. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat? “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” - 56% wrong “And so far, do you think that Brexit has been more of a success or more of a failure?” -62% more of a failure https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45733-most-britons-say-brexit-has-been-more-failure Do you think they're wrong to say 'MOST Britons say Brexit has been more failure'? Yes, the article is badly worded. It should say ‘Poling suggests…’ or suchlike. But it doesn't. Yet you're happy to agree with them. It's strange. " I’m happy to accept the poll results, yes. That’s not the same as agreeing with the wording of the article. You know that, though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. ************************************ Of course the EU was heading toward federalism, anyone could see that 1) 'Common market' 2)'European Economic Community (EEC) 3) 'European Union' (EU) Ultimately, USE (United States of Europe) And all the above is MY (very well) considered opinion, as always. So, make of it what you will. We joined the common market knowing about ‘ever closer union’. We voted to remain in the common market knowing about ‘ever closer Union’ " But what did 'ever closer union' mean? The fact is, British people did not feel comfortable in a stealth programme whereby power was progressively ceded to Brussels. If you want to be ruled by Brussels, fair enough. But a (small) majority didn't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. ************************************ Of course the EU was heading toward federalism, anyone could see that 1) 'Common market' 2)'European Economic Community (EEC) 3) 'European Union' (EU) Ultimately, USE (United States of Europe) And all the above is MY (very well) considered opinion, as always. So, make of it what you will. We joined the common market knowing about ‘ever closer union’. We voted to remain in the common market knowing about ‘ever closer Union’ But what did 'ever closer union' mean? The fact is, British people did not feel comfortable in a stealth programme whereby power was progressively ceded to Brussels. If you want to be ruled by Brussels, fair enough. But a (small) majority didn't." Are you suggesting that enough people were confused about the EU to make a difference in the referendum? Another chap asked me a similar question further up. Anyways, as this thread comes to an end. Always good banter on these brexit topics. Good to see people still clinging on and arguing in the brexit corner! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is fining the UK EUR32 million for a handful of pleasure yachts using red diesel. This begs several questions. Firstly why does a trading bloc have a say on our domestic policies on fuel taxation? How did we get in a situation where a trading bloc hands out fines? The EU hands out fines all the time to member states that step out of line. Recently they are not happy with Poland and I think one other country (forget which one) as they want to restrict grain imports from Ukraine. When Ukraine can't get grain out via sea they use land and Poland ends up with lots that is affecting their own farmers. I think they will allow the grain to pass through but not to be sold in Poland anymore. The EU have said it is not for member states to make policy on this and they must do as told. Naughty Poland!! Indeed. Anonymous politicians Not anonymous, we got to vote for them. in Brussels handing down fines for breaking laws we didn't implement nor particularly want. Except in nearly every case, out MEPs voted for them. Where is the accountability of these politicians? We don't even know who they are, much less able to vote them out. I don't know if you're for real, or if this post is trolling leave voters. But there genuinely are people who did not have the slightest clue how the EU worked at the time of the referendum. Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. A majority of people? A majority of those that turned up to vote on the day, yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Anyhoo, 55% now consistently polling that Brexit was a mistake. Overwhelmingly in the case of under 55’s. Single market membership is a virtual certainty in the next decade. Why do you have an issue with 'majority' when you often pump out the 55% stat? The reason you use that stat is because it shows a majority. A majority of people polled? Yes. A majority of the public? Not even close. Because I use the term correctly. It’s incorrect to claim a majority of the country voted to leave the EU. It’s correct to say that a majority now polls to indicate that Brexit was a mistake. I don’t claim that a poll is taken of a majority of the public. A poll and a vote is the exact same thing. It takes a sample (votes generally being much larger) and assumes a majority. Have an issue with it but stop being disingenuous about it. I’m not being disingenuous when I say that a majority of the country didn’t vote to leave the EU. I’m reporting a fact. You’re the first to point out the importance of language when it suits you. But you ate when you complain about it whilst using a sample stat to argue the opposite. Language and how you use it is very important. BTW, what question was asked to get that stat? “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” - 56% wrong “And so far, do you think that Brexit has been more of a success or more of a failure?” -62% more of a failure https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45733-most-britons-say-brexit-has-been-more-failure Do you think they're wrong to say 'MOST Britons say Brexit has been more failure'? Yes, the article is badly worded. It should say ‘Poling suggests…’ or suchlike. But it doesn't. Yet you're happy to agree with them. It's strange. I’m happy to accept the poll results, yes. That’s not the same as agreeing with the wording of the article. You know that, though. " You should go back and check your language bud | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well exactly, people felt disconnected from the EU, and had no desire to be ruled from Brussels. So why would they know or care how the EU worked? You have to accept that not everybody (a majority as it turned out) did not buy-in to your beloved EU federalist project. Maybe if they were paying attention they would realise that they're not "ruled from Brussels" and that our elected MEPs voted for the vast majority of EU rulings and that the EU isn't a "federalist project". I completely agree that if people knew more about the EU, what is is, how it works, then there's no way they would have voted leave. ************************************ Of course the EU was heading toward federalism, anyone could see that 1) 'Common market' 2)'European Economic Community (EEC) 3) 'European Union' (EU) Ultimately, USE (United States of Europe) And all the above is MY (very well) considered opinion, as always. So, make of it what you will. We joined the common market knowing about ‘ever closer union’. We voted to remain in the common market knowing about ‘ever closer Union’ But what did 'ever closer union' mean? The fact is, British people did not feel comfortable in a stealth programme whereby power was progressively ceded to Brussels. If you want to be ruled by Brussels, fair enough. But a (small) majority didn't. Are you suggesting that enough people were confused about the EU to make a difference in the referendum? Another chap asked me a similar question further up. Anyways, as this thread comes to an end. Always good banter on these brexit topics. Good to see people still clinging on and arguing in the brexit corner! " Well people being confused about the EU is hardly surprising is it? In many peoples minds it started as a trade bloc (good idea) and morphed by stealth into a superstate (no thanks). Anyway, history tells us that sooner or later all empires crumble, and the EU will be no exception. It's a matter of when not if. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
