FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Another council in mass equal pay claim
Another council in mass equal pay claim
Jump to: Newest in thread
This time it's Sheffield. GMB are urging people to come forward in order to create a mass equal pay claim.
What I wanna know is how? Sheffield Council pays their workers by grade, yet this is being painted as women being discriminated against. What the fuck is going on here?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/25/sheffield-council-faces-mass-equal-pay-claim-over-scandalous-pay-grades |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments."
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender. "
Everyone should be paid the same regardless of their job or their skills and experience...sounds like Communism to me! I guess those GMB union bosses will be happy to be paid the same as the cleaners and caretakers too? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender.
Everyone should be paid the same regardless of their job or their skills and experience...sounds like Communism to me! I guess those GMB union bosses will be happy to be paid the same as the cleaners and caretakers too?"
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
Seriously though, can you help me to understand what I'm missing? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender.
Everyone should be paid the same regardless of their job or their skills and experience...sounds like Communism to me! I guess those GMB union bosses will be happy to be paid the same as the cleaners and caretakers too?
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
Seriously though, can you help me to understand what I'm missing?"
Oh Feisty that is the trouble with these forums. Everyone assumes people are taking sides or arguing just because on some other occasion you may have held different views.
No sarcasm at all (except aimed at the GMB). I mean what I have said. It is a ridiculous concept that people doing different jobs or with different skill sets should be paid the same. It is one of the flaws in Communism. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender.
Everyone should be paid the same regardless of their job or their skills and experience...sounds like Communism to me! I guess those GMB union bosses will be happy to be paid the same as the cleaners and caretakers too?
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
Seriously though, can you help me to understand what I'm missing?
Oh Feisty that is the trouble with these forums. Everyone assumes people are taking sides or arguing just because on some other occasion you may have held different views.
No sarcasm at all (except aimed at the GMB). I mean what I have said. It is a ridiculous concept that people doing different jobs or with different skill sets should be paid the same. It is one of the flaws in Communism. "
I meant sarcasm towards GMB (the first line), not myself. You and I both know we "fall out" often enough, but fucked if I'm carrying it over to other threads. I don't have the energy for that  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender.
Everyone should be paid the same regardless of their job or their skills and experience...sounds like Communism to me! I guess those GMB union bosses will be happy to be paid the same as the cleaners and caretakers too?
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
Seriously though, can you help me to understand what I'm missing?
Oh Feisty that is the trouble with these forums. Everyone assumes people are taking sides or arguing just because on some other occasion you may have held different views.
No sarcasm at all (except aimed at the GMB). I mean what I have said. It is a ridiculous concept that people doing different jobs or with different skill sets should be paid the same. It is one of the flaws in Communism.
I meant sarcasm towards GMB (the first line), not myself. You and I both know we "fall out" often enough, but fucked if I'm carrying it over to other threads. I don't have the energy for that "
Ah ok my bad. Well my position is that people should be remunerated according to the job they do, the skills they have, and the experience they have. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Surely a more sensible and reasonable solution would be to offer lower grade folk to apply for higher grade vacancies if they wish when they come up? Make internal vacancy adverts more obvious to all and encourage lower pay grade folk a little... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This time it's Sheffield. GMB are urging people to come forward in order to create a mass equal pay claim.
What I wanna know is how? Sheffield Council pays their workers by grade, yet this is being painted as women being discriminated against. What the fuck is going on here?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/25/sheffield-council-faces-mass-equal-pay-claim-over-scandalous-pay-grades"
Not seen it but is this not a historical case so 10 years ago it was diferant now I want my back pay. So 10years ago the woman might have got less on the same grade and doing the same job should this now be levelled up ad pension contributions also adjusted. You could argue go back 50 years ?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender. "
at least the council have them at different grades this time. Irrc Brum CC were done for different bonus structure for roles at the same grade.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I was reading about this and it smacks of ambulance chasing.
If a man and a woman are doing the same job in the same conditions and contract they are paid the same if not, they have a case.
From what I have read, the unions are comparing a cleaner to a caretaker, and other misalignments.
That's the argument from what I can see. Cleaners (mostly women) are grade 1, caretakers (mostly men) are grade 3. GMB are arguing they should be the same grade and aren't only because of gender. I think the fact that if a male is a cleaner he's paid the same as a female cleaner and vice versa for every other grade says its got nothing to do with gender. at least the council have them at different grades this time. Irrc Brum CC were done for different bonus structure for roles at the same grade.
"
Completely stupid.
If one job pays bonuses and another doesn't. If you want the bonus, do the job that pays them. Don't do the other one then bleat that you are poorly treated. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Gotta love a grifter
Why pick a harder job with better pay when you can pick an easy one and claim discrimination?
Honestly, these claims are doing more harm for women in the work place than anything else
Big employers are looking at this stuff and realising that on many levels, it’s just not worth it to hire a woman in the long term
And that’s a shame because the vast majority of women just want a fair working environment and equal opportunities
But a very small, lacy, greedy minority will ruin it for the others |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gotta love a grifter
Why pick a harder job with better pay when you can pick an easy one and claim discrimination?
Honestly, these claims are doing more harm for women in the work place than anything else
Big employers are looking at this stuff and realising that on many levels, it’s just not worth it to hire a woman in the long term
And that’s a shame because the vast majority of women just want a fair working environment and equal opportunities
But a very small, lacy, greedy minority will ruin it for the others "
Are big companies still paying women lower wages for doing the same job has a guy..?
Because mostly thats what these cases are about. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gotta love a grifter
Why pick a harder job with better pay when you can pick an easy one and claim discrimination?
Honestly, these claims are doing more harm for women in the work place than anything else
Big employers are looking at this stuff and realising that on many levels, it’s just not worth it to hire a woman in the long term
And that’s a shame because the vast majority of women just want a fair working environment and equal opportunities
But a very small, lacy, greedy minority will ruin it for the others
Are big companies still paying women lower wages for doing the same job has a guy..?
Because mostly thats what these cases are about. "
I’d suggest you reread the article then, because that’s not what these cases are about |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different."
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.” |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different."
what do you mean by qualifications ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The union is likely to win as a couple years back mainly female supermarket workers won a case to get the same pay as mainly male warehouse workers."
They didn’t win, the case is still on going
“ “It is not a ruling by the Employment Tribunal and is not a decision on the question of equal value. At Asda male and female colleagues doing the same jobs in stores are paid the same and this is equally true in our distribution centres,” a spokesperson said.
“We continue to defend these claims because retail and distribution are very different sectors, with their own distinct skill sets and rates of pay.””
This is from an Asda representative in August 2023 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The union is likely to win as a couple years back mainly female supermarket workers won a case to get the same pay as mainly male warehouse workers."
They didn't win the case, they won permission from a judge to bring the case.
Before that Asda had applied to have the issue thrown out as being patently absurd, and the union applied to dismiss the Asda objection. The union prevailed and the judge awarded them the right to continue with their case. The media reporting of the facts was extremely poor. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gotta love a grifter
Why pick a harder job with better pay when you can pick an easy one and claim discrimination?
Honestly, these claims are doing more harm for women in the work place than anything else
Big employers are looking at this stuff and realising that on many levels, it’s just not worth it to hire a woman in the long term
And that’s a shame because the vast majority of women just want a fair working environment and equal opportunities
But a very small, lacy, greedy minority will ruin it for the others
Are big companies still paying women lower wages for doing the same job has a guy..?
Because mostly thats what these cases are about.
I’d suggest you reread the article then, because that’s not what these cases are about "
By mostly, I meant the other councils dealing with these issues Birmingham, Glasgow etc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”"
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women."
from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won"
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back."
 you've bounced to a different case than above. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back. you've bounced to a different case than above. "
It's a precedent |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back. you've bounced to a different case than above.
It's a precedent "
debatable. The Glasgow case looked to be about a) some odd protection that was provided and b) that the council used an odd way of grading roles that the court deemed couldnt be used as a defence. I don't believe there is a ruling that says a cleaner has to be treated like a bin man.
If it is indeed a water tight precendncxe then GMB have been asleep on the job. It's been 5 years. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back. you've bounced to a different case than above.
It's a precedent debatable. The Glasgow case looked to be about a) some odd protection that was provided and b) that the council used an odd way of grading roles that the court deemed couldnt be used as a defence. I don't believe there is a ruling that says a cleaner has to be treated like a bin man.
If it is indeed a water tight precendncxe then GMB have been asleep on the job. It's been 5 years. "
OK..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back. you've bounced to a different case than above.
It's a precedent debatable. The Glasgow case looked to be about a) some odd protection that was provided and b) that the council used an odd way of grading roles that the court deemed couldnt be used as a defence. I don't believe there is a ruling that says a cleaner has to be treated like a bin man.
If it is indeed a water tight precendncxe then GMB have been asleep on the job. It's been 5 years.
OK....."
appreciate the well thought out response  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This thread seems to be saying...if only the councils had organised better they could have legally paid women less.
If you do a job either male or female you should be paid the same. A janitor is no higher a function than a cleaner, unless the qualifications to apply are different.
The jobs aren’t the same
But even if they are, let’s just pretend they are
Why would you apply for the lower paid cleaner job? Women weren’t barred from being in higher paid positions, they just chose to be cleaners instead
Quick look online
“ What is the difference between a janitor and a cleaner? The job of a cleaner is purely to clean a designated area while a janitor's job also includes maintenance. Cleaners often work in small buildings or residential areas, while janitors work in larger or public spaces.”
Both jobs are the same ...semi skilled.
Anyway I'm not getting bogged down in the detail of who does what.
The case was won in law so the councils should have paid, will have to pay and women shouldn't be paid less because they are women.from what I can tell, the case hasn't been heard yet,let alone won
Case was won against Glasgow City Council few years back."
There was no 'case won' against Glasgow City Council. The council reached agreement with claimants outside of court.
Therefore, that settlement sets no precedent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
