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By *deepdive OP Man
over a year ago
France / Birmingham |
As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Apparently there are 34 known ‘at risk’ hospitals. They could fix them and pass them off as a good chunk of the 40 new hospitals we were told we’re getting… |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I had the misfortune of going to Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Kings Lynn this year. There’s over 2000 props holding it up. They’ve just recently received funding to rebuild it. They’re going to do the car park first. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC."
I suspect climate plays a role in this. The U.K being wetter than certainly southern Europe. It would be interesting to hear some stories though. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC."
I’m struggling to understand your point |
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By *deepdive OP Man
over a year ago
France / Birmingham |
"As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC.
I’m struggling to understand your point"
There is no real point, more ruminating than anything else.
If anything, I think that the media are being too hard on the government but, I also think that the government are not doing themselves any favours with their denials either.
I also suspect that the problems with RAAC are far more widespread (across Europe and beyond). The fact that the UK has fallen foul may be due to climate and certainly is due to lack of ongoing investment but other governments also fall foul of ongoing investment and maintenance due to budget availability (as per the UK).
I think we will find that this is a far greater problem than first anticipated. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC.
I’m struggling to understand your point
There is no real point, more ruminating than anything else.
If anything, I think that the media are being too hard on the government but, I also think that the government are not doing themselves any favours with their denials either.
I also suspect that the problems with RAAC are far more widespread (across Europe and beyond). The fact that the UK has fallen foul may be due to climate and certainly is due to lack of ongoing investment but other governments also fall foul of ongoing investment and maintenance due to budget availability (as per the UK).
I think we will find that this is a far greater problem than first anticipated."
 |
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"Apparently Gillian Keegan’s Department has awarded contract(s) worth £1m to a firm her husband is a Non-Exec Director of."
Are you saying that Gillian Keegan has bribed or bullied all the civil servants involved in procurement, or does she do the contract awarding herself? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Apparently Gillian Keegan’s Department has awarded contract(s) worth £1m to a firm her husband is a Non-Exec Director of.
Are you saying that Gillian Keegan has bribed or bullied all the civil servants involved in procurement, or does she do the contract awarding herself?"
I’m not saying anything, the press are reporting it and I shared.
Just hope her husband’s involvement with the firm was declared through proper channels and that was known to the procurement team.
It is rather ironic that these politicians (note I didn’t say Tory) so often have family connections to the right firms on the right procurement frameworks. How lucky and amazingly coincidental is that! Some people are just born lucky I guess?  |
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"Apparently Gillian Keegan’s Department has awarded contract(s) worth £1m to a firm her husband is a Non-Exec Director of.
Are you saying that Gillian Keegan has bribed or bullied all the civil servants involved in procurement, or does she do the contract awarding herself?
I’m not saying anything, the press are reporting it and I shared.
Just hope her husband’s involvement with the firm was declared through proper channels and that was known to the procurement team.
It is rather ironic that these politicians (note I didn’t say Tory) so often have family connections to the right firms on the right procurement frameworks. How lucky and amazingly coincidental is that! Some people are just born lucky I guess? "
A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
If they weren't aware then they should all be sacked. The guy has been a director for over 5 years. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”"
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things. |
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"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things. "
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked. "
 so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart 
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train! |
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"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!"
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead 
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points. |
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"No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records."
How convenient for you that your personal conspiracy theory necessarily means that there's no evidence of its existence. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points. "
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records.
How convenient for you that your personal conspiracy theory necessarily means that there's no evidence of its existence."
It’s good isn’t it...except it isn’t my theory.
Many will argue that is how “business” works. Who you know and all that.
Certainly many, if not most, of my successful tenders have been won because I was already known to people (with a good track record of successful delivery to back it up or I wouldn’t have made the short list). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information. "
Not for the first time I feel the need to reference the book ‘Chums’ - contacts made in the halls of universities, friends of friends. It’s gone on since time immemorial. Only the naive would pretend it doesn’t. |
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"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information. "
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works. "
I don't think it's unique to any particular industry either or even unique in the UK |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works. "
Because enriching yourself or family/friends from the public purse is not the same as the using contacts in the business world. Just because it goes on doesn’t make it right. As a Minister you are in a privileged position to influence policy decisions and procurement decisions (regardless of what some may think or want to believe on here) and benefit from them. |
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"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works.
Because enriching yourself or family/friends from the public purse is not the same as the using contacts in the business world. Just because it goes on doesn’t make it right. As a Minister you are in a privileged position to influence policy decisions and procurement decisions (regardless of what some may think or want to believe on here) and benefit from them. "
Good luck finding a politician who hasn't used their influence for their own gain. Or any high powered businessman/woman, celebrity etc etc.
Brown envelopes aren't part of everyday talk for no reason. You know this. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works.
Because enriching yourself or family/friends from the public purse is not the same as the using contacts in the business world. Just because it goes on doesn’t make it right. As a Minister you are in a privileged position to influence policy decisions and procurement decisions (regardless of what some may think or want to believe on here) and benefit from them.
Good luck finding a politician who hasn't used their influence for their own gain. Or any high powered businessman/woman, celebrity etc etc.
Brown envelopes aren't part of everyday talk for no reason. You know this."
I know but you asked why (some) people are angry/surprised. I maintain there is a difference between what is acceptable in the business world (private capital) and government (tax payer funded). But yeah! |
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"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works.
Because enriching yourself or family/friends from the public purse is not the same as the using contacts in the business world. Just because it goes on doesn’t make it right. As a Minister you are in a privileged position to influence policy decisions and procurement decisions (regardless of what some may think or want to believe on here) and benefit from them.
Good luck finding a politician who hasn't used their influence for their own gain. Or any high powered businessman/woman, celebrity etc etc.
Brown envelopes aren't part of everyday talk for no reason. You know this.
I know but you asked why (some) people are angry/surprised. I maintain there is a difference between what is acceptable in the business world (private capital) and government (tax payer funded). But yeah!"
Fair point. There is a difference. Its not gonna stop though, and no amount of getting angry about it will help. |
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"As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC.
I suspect climate plays a role in this. The U.K being wetter than certainly southern Europe. It would be interesting to hear some stories though. "
Why would the climate affect RAAC? I thought it was IN roofing, IN buildings, therefore not exposed to the weather. |
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"Why would the climate affect RAAC? I thought it was IN roofing, IN buildings, therefore not exposed to the weather."
Water can slowly penetrate RAAC and corrode the reinforcing bars inside the slabs. The UK has much more of a problem with damp than most other countries, and it's almost impossible to protect RAAC from coming into contact with moisture laden air. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As the latest (scaremongering) headline suggests that hospitals familiarise themselves with evacuation routes in case their building starts to crumble I ask myself what other countries must be thinking.
I am pretty sure that the UK is not alone with buildings constructed using aerated concrete.
Are they quietly checking all their building hoping that nobody notices or prints some scary headline?
Although the media are almost portraying this as a UK issue, in reality it is more likely an issue of budgets (whilst ignoring safety advice given that this type of construction has a shelf life).
Every European country ( every country) has been through COVID, has been supporting the war in Ukraine, has been impacted by inflation so they will all have been trying to manage spend.
I very much doubt that the UK is unique here and expect to hear stories from across Europe of similar problems with RAAC.
I suspect climate plays a role in this. The U.K being wetter than certainly southern Europe. It would be interesting to hear some stories though.
Why would the climate affect RAAC? I thought it was IN roofing, IN buildings, therefore not exposed to the weather. "
Water can ingress RAAC, after a period of time any paint or substance covering it becomes broken and porous |
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"Why would the climate affect RAAC? I thought it was IN roofing, IN buildings, therefore not exposed to the weather.
Water can slowly penetrate RAAC and corrode the reinforcing bars inside the slabs. The UK has much more of a problem with damp than most other countries, and it's almost impossible to protect RAAC from coming into contact with moisture laden air."
I did actually read that on the dot gov site, and like you stated it's problem re moisture in the air and the reinforcing metals. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works.
Because enriching yourself or family/friends from the public purse is not the same as the using contacts in the business world. Just because it goes on doesn’t make it right. As a Minister you are in a privileged position to influence policy decisions and procurement decisions (regardless of what some may think or want to believe on here) and benefit from them.
Good luck finding a politician who hasn't used their influence for their own gain. Or any high powered businessman/woman, celebrity etc etc.
Brown envelopes aren't part of everyday talk for no reason. You know this.
I know but you asked why (some) people are angry/surprised. I maintain there is a difference between what is acceptable in the business world (private capital) and government (tax payer funded). But yeah!
Fair point. There is a difference. Its not gonna stop though, and no amount of getting angry about it will help. "
Well we could all rise up and protest to let “them” know we do not accept it!
Obviously we need to not disrupt anyone, can’t block the road or pavements. And best not make any noise. Certainly best not offend anyone (does that include the politicians). Oh and best be careful how we make our banners and be sure we don’t plan to attach them to anything as that could be seen as having tools to lock on!
Best just grumble and make a cup of tea instead |
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"A DfE spokesperson said: “Ministers had no involvement in the procurement process for these contracts, which were awarded in line with existing government commercial procedures.”
And that will be demonstrably correct in terms of both principle and paper trail. But in practice there are corridor conversations with people in the know. There will be access to privileged information that a Minister could verbally share with family members to help with their tendering. No doubt certain posters will demand evidence for such claims entirely missing the point that there is no evidence and that is the point because it will be verbal with no records. Plausible deniability is an active tool used in govt for many things.
Plausible deniability is an active tool used in life, not just Govt.
Procurement avenues is also about who you know in life, not just Govt.
I'm not sure why people are so shocked.
so true so true. I try Plausible Deniability with Mrs B but she is too smart
Not sure people are shocked or surprised but as it involves our tax payer funds, it angers people re the gravy train!
You should change tact, try gaslighting instead
Why are people angry? Did that company deliver what they were contracted to? If so, then are we arguing that they shouldn't get a job they're more than capable of performing because of one director?
For me, if a company is capable of delivering a project, then they're capable. If the agreed fee was reasonable, then it was reasonable.
It seems people just like to have a moan for the sake of having a moan or to score political points.
Oh I am talking wider than one contract. More the issue of politicians (of any party) getting wealthier as a result of connections to companies awarded contracts funded by the tax payer. There is definite issues of conflict of interest and access to privileged information.
We all know it goes on. We spoke about it briefly earlier int he thread I think.
Still, I'm not sure why people are angry or surprised. It's how the world works.
Because enriching yourself or family/friends from the public purse is not the same as the using contacts in the business world. Just because it goes on doesn’t make it right. As a Minister you are in a privileged position to influence policy decisions and procurement decisions (regardless of what some may think or want to believe on here) and benefit from them.
Good luck finding a politician who hasn't used their influence for their own gain. Or any high powered businessman/woman, celebrity etc etc.
Brown envelopes aren't part of everyday talk for no reason. You know this.
I know but you asked why (some) people are angry/surprised. I maintain there is a difference between what is acceptable in the business world (private capital) and government (tax payer funded). But yeah!
Fair point. There is a difference. Its not gonna stop though, and no amount of getting angry about it will help.
Well we could all rise up and protest to let “them” know we do not accept it!
Obviously we need to not disrupt anyone, can’t block the road or pavements. And best not make any noise. Certainly best not offend anyone (does that include the politicians). Oh and best be careful how we make our banners and be sure we don’t plan to attach them to anything as that could be seen as having tools to lock on!
Best just grumble and make a cup of tea instead "
Go for it. I'll just crack on not giving a fuxk |
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