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Suella not going to be happy
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By *addad99 OP Man
over a year ago
Rotherham /newquay |
Just been watching news about another boat full of people sunk in the channel in french waters rnli and french rescue while 2 french boats looking for missing now 22 on rnli boat while 36 on french back in Calais happy that rnli rescued them but why fetch them back here why not Calais like the rest suella not going to be happy is it another battle rnli going to have another forum suggesting they should be ashamed don't fund rnli.me rnli do a fantastic job there court between politics and humanity. |
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"Just been watching news about another boat full of people sunk in the channel in french waters rnli and french rescue while 2 french boats looking for missing now 22 on rnli boat while 36 on french back in Calais happy that rnli rescued them but why fetch them back here why not Calais like the rest suella not going to be happy is it another battle rnli going to have another forum suggesting they should be ashamed don't fund rnli.me rnli do a fantastic job there court between politics and humanity."
Surely saving lives should be the priority here. If they RNLI did that, excellent.
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
Ideally the RNLI should not be dragged into politics at all. They are there to save lives which they did but once the lives are saved comes the decision what to do with those now on-board. I guess taking them back to France is the preferred choice but maybe there are rules preventing this. If there are not then perhaps they got this bit wrong though it should not detract from their excellent work of life saving |
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By *addad99 OP Man
over a year ago
Rotherham /newquay |
"I am absolutely happy that the RNLI came to help the French. However, for me, they were in French waters so take them to France. "
yes might be protocol that says can't go to France would be nice to know was it the captain or above that made the decision was it the french might have been better to take back to France might make them think about trying again.but now what happens to them do we make sure there ok then send back or do we allow them to stay and start immigration me I'm ok with them being sent back once they have been checked out.
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"The rlni are being pushed to breaking point, and these kind of tragedies will be common in the channel, not to worry we are de sensitized to this kind of stuff.  "
The RLNI should be publicly funded, and those putting their lives on the line should be paid. |
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"The rlni are being pushed to breaking point, and these kind of tragedies will be common in the channel, not to worry we are de sensitized to this kind of stuff.
The RLNI should be publicly funded, and those putting their lives on the line should be paid. "
This.. |
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"There is no solution to this problem.
Millions of people displaced globally through climate change, wars and poverty."
Absolutely no one has been displaced through climate change. Equally, poverty doesn't remove anyone's home, they just leave to escape it. Wars I can agree with. |
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Absolutely no one has been displaced through climate change. "
This is false
There is a good article "Climate change and disaster displacement" on the UNHCR website. Which explains how climate change has lead to the displacement of people.
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"There is no solution to this problem.
Millions of people displaced globally through climate change, wars and poverty."
"Absolutely no one has been displaced through climate change. ..."
"This is false
There is a good article "Climate change and disaster displacement" on the UNHCR website. Which explains how climate change has lead to the displacement of people."
In line with what the original poster said, I was talking about people crossing borders. The UNHCR article you reference talks solely about internal displacement, which is a different thing. |
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"The rlni are being pushed to breaking point, and these kind of tragedies will be common in the channel, not to worry we are de sensitized to this kind of stuff.
The RLNI should be publicly funded, and those putting their lives on the line should be paid. "
It should be but it's probably better off as it is. Look at the NHS ambulance service, GP service etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them. |
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes ..."
When they talk about stopping the small boat crossings, they really mean 'stop the people coming in'. Opening safe routes wouldn't achieve what they want. |
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These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction."
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet. |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet."
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise. |
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them."
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise."
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats |
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"How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse?"
You can't see that you just reverted to type with 'Tories have had 13 years', when actually it got significantly worse from 2019 and now appears to be getting better?
That's only 4 years. Blame the Tories all you like, they are the party in power after all but you might wanna lose the 'soundbites'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse?
You can't see that you just reverted to type with 'Tories have had 13 years', when actually it got significantly worse from 2019 and now appears to be getting better?
That's only 4 years. Blame the Tories all you like, they are the party in power after all but you might wanna lose the 'soundbites'."
If you look at the graph using your stats on the BBC article a day ago 2022 and 2023 are virtually the same all years rise more in the 2nd half, June 23 was also the highest recorded numbers for a June so I don't think things are getting much better. |
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"How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse?
You can't see that you just reverted to type with 'Tories have had 13 years', when actually it got significantly worse from 2019 and now appears to be getting better?
That's only 4 years. Blame the Tories all you like, they are the party in power after all but you might wanna lose the 'soundbites'.
If you look at the graph using your stats on the BBC article a day ago 2022 and 2023 are virtually the same all years rise more in the 2nd half, June 23 was also the highest recorded numbers for a June so I don't think things are getting much better."
I'm aware crossings tend to increase in the second half of the year, that's why I provided data 'as to 10 August' so that a direct comparison could be made. Eveb with our highest June on record we're still circa 2k down on last year to this point. That seems like an improvement to me.
It would appear that you either struggle with comprehension or hate the Tories so much you're now trying move goalposts and cherry pick very specific data to try prove your point. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
"
How far back is that data available for? |
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
How far back is that data available for?"
I believe thats as far as it goes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse?
You can't see that you just reverted to type with 'Tories have had 13 years', when actually it got significantly worse from 2019 and now appears to be getting better?
That's only 4 years. Blame the Tories all you like, they are the party in power after all but you might wanna lose the 'soundbites'.
If you look at the graph using your stats on the BBC article a day ago 2022 and 2023 are virtually the same all years rise more in the 2nd half, June 23 was also the highest recorded numbers for a June so I don't think things are getting much better.
I'm aware crossings tend to increase in the second half of the year, that's why I provided data 'as to 10 August' so that a direct comparison could be made. Eveb with our highest June on record we're still circa 2k down on last year to this point. That seems like an improvement to me.
It would appear that you either struggle with comprehension or hate the Tories so much you're now trying move goalposts and cherry pick very specific data to try prove your point. "
Not at all, I was just pointing the drop will be nothing like those stats appear, do you think the conservatives have done a good job?
Do you dislike sound bite? Because if you do I'm surprised you defend them "stop the boats" "over ready deal" "get Brexit done" "anti growth coalition" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
How far back is that data available for?
I believe thats as far as it goes"
When did the Dublin agreement end? |
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
How far back is that data available for?
I believe thats as far as it goes"
Between July 2014 and May 2016 Home Office data states that there were nine confirmed incidents of migrants reaching the UK having crossed the Channel in a small vessel. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
How far back is that data available for?
I believe thats as far as it goes"
That’s a shame. Keen to know what was happening under Labour then the Cameron govt.
What happened to drive this exponential increase? Is there a correlation with nationality of the people crossing (once that can be established) that can then be examined re cause and effect? Not expecting you to know Feisty, more a general question. |
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"How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse?
You can't see that you just reverted to type with 'Tories have had 13 years', when actually it got significantly worse from 2019 and now appears to be getting better?
That's only 4 years. Blame the Tories all you like, they are the party in power after all but you might wanna lose the 'soundbites'.
If you look at the graph using your stats on the BBC article a day ago 2022 and 2023 are virtually the same all years rise more in the 2nd half, June 23 was also the highest recorded numbers for a June so I don't think things are getting much better.
I'm aware crossings tend to increase in the second half of the year, that's why I provided data 'as to 10 August' so that a direct comparison could be made. Eveb with our highest June on record we're still circa 2k down on last year to this point. That seems like an improvement to me.
It would appear that you either struggle with comprehension or hate the Tories so much you're now trying move goalposts and cherry pick very specific data to try prove your point.
Not at all, I was just pointing the drop will be nothing like those stats appear, do you think the conservatives have done a good job?
Do you dislike sound bite? Because if you do I'm surprised you defend them "stop the boats" "over ready deal" "get Brexit done" "anti growth coalition""
Of course the Tories haven't done a good job, not am I defending them. I think maybe my assertion that you struggle with comprehension. Just as I've never defended a soundbite.
In response to your other question. The figures are for people arriving, the Dublin Agreement doesn't really matter in this instance. |
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
How far back is that data available for?
I believe thats as far as it goes
That’s a shame. Keen to know what was happening under Labour then the Cameron govt.
What happened to drive this exponential increase? Is there a correlation with nationality of the people crossing (once that can be established) that can then be examined re cause and effect? Not expecting you to know Feisty, more a general question."
See my further response re. figures prior.
I do believe that there is a correlation between Albanian nationals and the increase in figures, although others have obviously increased too. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
How far back is that data available for?
I believe thats as far as it goes
That’s a shame. Keen to know what was happening under Labour then the Cameron govt.
What happened to drive this exponential increase? Is there a correlation with nationality of the people crossing (once that can be established) that can then be examined re cause and effect? Not expecting you to know Feisty, more a general question.
See my further response re. figures prior.
I do believe that there is a correlation between Albanian nationals and the increase in figures, although others have obviously increased too. "
Sorry spotted that after posted.
That is a shocking exponential growth. Weird, it has been so high in our consciousness that it has felt like it has happened forever in far higher numbers.
I wonder if we stripped out the Albanians (which feels like an outlier with other causes) and focused on other nationalities, one might be able to determine a pattern? Do we have data showing the breakdown on known/suspected nationalities?
I wonder what Syrian or Somali asylum seekers did to be able to apply for asylum in the UK prior to 2021?
Has the overall number of asylum seekers grown in the same period (regardless of method of entry?) Has that happened across Europe also? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How does that make me wrong, it's got considerably worse under the Tories and they offer weaponise the issue.
If anything you are backing up what I said, what happened between 2018 and now to make it worse?
You can't see that you just reverted to type with 'Tories have had 13 years', when actually it got significantly worse from 2019 and now appears to be getting better?
That's only 4 years. Blame the Tories all you like, they are the party in power after all but you might wanna lose the 'soundbites'.
If you look at the graph using your stats on the BBC article a day ago 2022 and 2023 are virtually the same all years rise more in the 2nd half, June 23 was also the highest recorded numbers for a June so I don't think things are getting much better.
I'm aware crossings tend to increase in the second half of the year, that's why I provided data 'as to 10 August' so that a direct comparison could be made. Eveb with our highest June on record we're still circa 2k down on last year to this point. That seems like an improvement to me.
It would appear that you either struggle with comprehension or hate the Tories so much you're now trying move goalposts and cherry pick very specific data to try prove your point.
Not at all, I was just pointing the drop will be nothing like those stats appear, do you think the conservatives have done a good job?
Do you dislike sound bite? Because if you do I'm surprised you defend them "stop the boats" "over ready deal" "get Brexit done" "anti growth coalition"
Of course the Tories haven't done a good job, not am I defending them. I think maybe my assertion that you struggle with comprehension. Just as I've never defended a soundbite.
In response to your other question. The figures are for people arriving, the Dublin Agreement doesn't really matter in this instance. "
That's not answering the question! When did the Dublin agreement end? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The conservatives don't want to solve this, they've had 13 years and haven't...they bang on about people traffickers but could stop this overnight by opening safe routes, they also bang on about hotels but have cut back on processing claims so there's need for them.
I think you may just have it wrong. This hasn't necessarily been a big problem for 13 years. It's a fairly new phenomenon.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
2022 to 10 August - 18,641
2023 to date - 16,169
Clearly whatever has happened since 2022 seems to be having some sort of effect.
"
bookmarked to talk stats*
I suspect there is a general trend that has been exaggerated by a spike in Albanian boat crossings in q3 2022.
However we continue to talk about albanians. I'm bumping between sources atm but I'm not sure of it's still the case.
However it does look like boat pll are c40 PC of cases atm... So not even the majority. And albanians at their peak were about 40pc of this. So while a big factor, alabanians in boats is c 16pc of all cases. Decent enough to look at. But also nowhere close to being the full picture. And we talk disproportionately about them. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
We may soon need thread pt2 but I thought this was interesting from the Institute for Public Policy Research..
“Most people crossing into the UK on small boats would have successful asylum claims if they were processed, according to new research by IPPR.
Approximately 70 per cent of people who arrived in small boats since 2018 would be granted asylum if their claims were properly considered.
However, as things stand, around two fifths (43 per cent) of claims that have received an initial decision have not been considered properly because the government is instead seeking to remove them to a safe third country.
But since 2018 only a negligible number have actually been moved to a safe third country. This is largely because the UK has failed to make new agreements with most EU countries and the deal with Rwanda has yet to be implemented. This leaves thousands of people in limbo, having to wait months in UK asylum accommodation until after their application is ultimately admitted into the asylum system.
The number of people detected arriving in small boats has increased from around 300 in 2018 to more than 30,000 this year.
People from Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Albania are among the nationalities most likely to risk the dangerous journey across the English Channel.
The research suggests three likely reasons behind the steep increase:
Tighter security in recent years has made other forms of clandestine entry – such as travelling through the Channel Tunnel concealed in a lorry – more difficult, increasing the appeal of using small boats
Withdrawal from EU asylum rules – the end of the Dublin Regulation’s application in the UK since Brexit has reduced the number of safe and legal routes for asylum seekers with family in the UK
Snowball effects – the initial success of using small boats has appeared to create a snowball effect, encouraging more and more to follow suit and making the route increasingly hard to contain.
IPPR says the huge increase in people coming to the UK in small boats highlights the failure of the government’s deterrence tactics. The current measures are likely to be ineffective and to further slow down the asylum and immigration system.
Alternative responses should include the creation of new safe and legal routes for asylum seekers and better cooperation with France and the EU.
The report also highlights the large numbers of people arriving by small boat facing extensive delays in receiving an initial asylum decision – with more than 7,500 applications waiting at least 12 months and 13 still waiting since claimants arrived in 2018 (as of March 2022), according to an FOI request submitted by IPPR.”
I was also intrigued by an article via Apple news about an Essex business man who is making £millions (from taxpayers) by housing asylum seekers. What’s the saying “one man’s shit is another man’s gold”. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
And this from the Electronic Immigration Network Feb 2023...
“Professor Brooks says the report aims to better understand how to deliver a more effective strategy for reducing small boat crossings by better understanding their contributing causes. As the report notes, the number of people crossing the Channel has 'skyrocketed' from less than 300 in 2018 to over 45,000 last year.
Most notably, the report finds that the UK Government's failure to negotiate a post-Brexit returns policy for asylum seekers with the European Union (EU) is the main cause for the increase in small boat crossings.
The report explains: "The UK's lack of a returns policy is the most significant pull factor for small boat journeys. Leaving the EU without a returns arrangement has meant individuals can now travel to the UK with the knowledge it is much more difficult for them to be returned post-2020 – which has not been true when the UK was in the EU pre-2020. When coupled with slow processing times for asylum applications, the UK has become easier to remain inside if and when migrants are able to get to our shores."
It is acknowledged in the report that criminal gangs are the ultimate cause of small boat journeys, but Professor Brooks says they are effectively taking advantage of this regulatory change created by Brexit.
Brooks says the lack of a returns agreement was a significant flaw in the post-Brexit deal, and the UK Government appears to be unable or unwilling to acknowledge this failure.” |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats"
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets. "
What's your point here? Opening safe routes would put the smugglers out of business straight away, Asylum processing has gone down massively in recent years, it takes on average over 15.5 months for a case compared to 8.5 in France, 6.5 Months in Germany, and under 3 in Austria ECHR doesn't seem to hold them up as much?
As for Albanians read the comments above, I've been accused of lacking comprehension wouldn't want anyone levelling that at you too! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets. "
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK? |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?"
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies."
And opening safe routes? |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes? "
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets. "
Recent revelations showed it is also corrupt lawyers that are abusing the system too. I think that there is now a deal to return failed claimants from Albania which has slightly helped the figures. Of course that does not help with the others though |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come."
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited? "
We all seem to forget the migrants in Calais climbing on lorries to get over the channel, it wasn't that long ago.
They fined drivers, installed equipment to detect stowaways and worked with the French authorities to more or leas wipe it out, there was a huge dip in successful crossings.
Gangs changed the tactics and here we are.
Simply opening up the borders to allow any one who simply likes the idea of being in the UK is not the answer and is a sure fire way of building local resistance, however not singling out the people who are really in need of help is equally as bad.
There is no viable answer on the table, because there are those who want a total open border policy and those that want totally closed border.
There are solutions, such as, anyone arriving without a valid from of identity will not gain entry, nothing to process means not entry. This has merit and could make a difference, however the Rwanda implementation has been divisive to deal with those who fail to meet requirements.
And here we are again, going nowhere fast and bending under the strain of criminal activity, whilst genuine people are stuck in limbo...
The next government can make a noise of how things will be different, but I very much doubt they will without one side or the other being very angry.
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"Just been watching news about another boat full of people sunk in the channel in french waters rnli and french rescue while 2 french boats looking for missing now 22 on rnli boat while 36 on french back in Calais happy that rnli rescued them but why fetch them back here why not Calais like the rest suella not going to be happy is it another battle rnli going to have another forum suggesting they should be ashamed don't fund rnli.me rnli do a fantastic job there court between politics and humanity."
The rnli are bot there to enter French waters
If they have done this it's a dereliction of duty to our own beaches.
We pay France circa 130m a year to stop this.
The French should be ashamed of the.selves unable to properly fund these rescues and find the boat suppliers.
No reason the government boats or rnli should be entering French waters |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited? "
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come."
The Tories want to stop the small boats, if you had the choice between a ferry or paying someone several thousands of pounds to cross in a dingy what would you go for? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants."
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count! |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!"
Mainly due to lack of documentation so not being able to prove and check back on their provided stories.
As many as 98% arriving by small boat do not have ID, it is part of the process and training that is provided by the criminals to improve their chance of success when they pay several thousand pounds for a seat.
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!"
Two points 1) a large proportion just 'disappear' 2) asylum is granted because deporting is so difficult and temporary accommodation so expensive. It's all a farce. Around a quarter of migrants in 2022 were Albanians. So asylum from what exactly? Maybe they were being persecuted by the Albanian police for people trafficking and robberies? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's important to remember that because we take so long to process cases, we must allow for lags. Next to none of the class of 2023 have been processed.
My suspicion is many of the Albanian cases will be found not to be valid. I suspect many have been conned into thinking they have a chance.
But we won't see this come thru for many years.
In the meantime, any numbers need to be used with care.
For example, Albania made a big chink in q3 2022 numbers. But the volumes have reduced massively since then. Now there may be another q3 spike. But even using 2022 numbers may not be useful for a discussion today |
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By *lfasoCouple
over a year ago
South East |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
The Tories want to stop the small boats, if you had the choice between a ferry or paying someone several thousands of pounds to cross in a dingy what would you go for?"
I would definitely take up the offer of a free ferry ticket. I would imagine tens of thousands of others would similarly take up the offer to escape from France. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
We all seem to forget the migrants in Calais climbing on lorries to get over the channel, it wasn't that long ago.
They fined drivers, installed equipment to detect stowaways and worked with the French authorities to more or leas wipe it out, there was a huge dip in successful crossings.
Gangs changed the tactics and here we are.
Simply opening up the borders to allow any one who simply likes the idea of being in the UK is not the answer and is a sure fire way of building local resistance, however not singling out the people who are really in need of help is equally as bad.
There is no viable answer on the table, because there are those who want a total open border policy and those that want totally closed border.
There are solutions, such as, anyone arriving without a valid from of identity will not gain entry, nothing to process means not entry. This has merit and could make a difference, however the Rwanda implementation has been divisive to deal with those who fail to meet requirements.
And here we are again, going nowhere fast and bending under the strain of criminal activity, whilst genuine people are stuck in limbo...
The next government can make a noise of how things will be different, but I very much doubt they will without one side or the other being very angry.
"
We (not just you and I but the forum) have discussed this at length. I think there is great merit in the “if you have ID we will treat you fairly and be able to process you more quickly as we can establish legitimacy” but “if you have no ID we will have to assume you have no valid claim and we will treat you differently”.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me  "
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Two points 1) a large proportion just 'disappear' 2) asylum is granted because deporting is so difficult and temporary accommodation so expensive. It's all a farce. Around a quarter of migrants in 2022 were Albanians. So asylum from what exactly? Maybe they were being persecuted by the Albanian police for people trafficking and robberies?"
So no actual evidence, thanks. |
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"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think"
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think."
Nobody reads my long posts 
Don’t blame them really 
Anyway here is something relevant again...
“The report explains: "The UK's lack of a returns policy is the most significant pull factor for small boat journeys. Leaving the EU without a returns arrangement has meant individuals can now travel to the UK with the knowledge it is much more difficult for them to be returned post-2020 – which has not been true when the UK was in the EU pre-2020. When coupled with slow processing times for asylum applications, the UK has become easier to remain inside if and when migrants are able to get to our shores." |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!"
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
|
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"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
Nobody reads my long posts
Don’t blame them really
Anyway here is something relevant again...
“The report explains: "The UK's lack of a returns policy is the most significant pull factor for small boat journeys. Leaving the EU without a returns arrangement has meant individuals can now travel to the UK with the knowledge it is much more difficult for them to be returned post-2020 – which has not been true when the UK was in the EU pre-2020. When coupled with slow processing times for asylum applications, the UK has become easier to remain inside if and when migrants are able to get to our shores.""
Is that basically what I just said?
Migrants are more than happy to get on a boat because they know we can't return them.
I defintely think that says more about those migrants than it does anyone else.
Tbf, I skipped a lot of posts, I did read then but there was so many since when I was last on. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think."
This Dublin agreement came up before and I had a quick look at some articles on it. I stress it was a quick look but seems to indicate the following :It is not the silver bullet it's made out to be or the successive governments failed to use it correctly. One of the benefits for migrants under the Dublin agreement was that once a migrant was accepted by the authorities their families stood a much better chance to follow and be accepted increasing the flow of people. Also the deportation figures under the agreement were very low indeed and the agreement works both ways. In the last few years of operating, more people were deported to the UK than out of the UK under this Dublin agreement |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
This Dublin agreement came up before and I had a quick look at some articles on it. I stress it was a quick look but seems to indicate the following :It is not the silver bullet it's made out to be or the successive governments failed to use it correctly. One of the benefits for migrants under the Dublin agreement was that once a migrant was accepted by the authorities their families stood a much better chance to follow and be accepted increasing the flow of people. Also the deportation figures under the agreement were very low indeed and the agreement works both ways. In the last few years of operating, more people were deported to the UK than out of the UK under this Dublin agreement"
I've seen an argument that Dublin was a deterrent for even trying. I suspect many didn't know but the removal of Dublin is being used as part of any criminal gangs grooming/conning.
Or it now makes the uk more attractive for the gangs. Who were previously targeting other countries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
"
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
This Dublin agreement came up before and I had a quick look at some articles on it. I stress it was a quick look but seems to indicate the following :It is not the silver bullet it's made out to be or the successive governments failed to use it correctly. One of the benefits for migrants under the Dublin agreement was that once a migrant was accepted by the authorities their families stood a much better chance to follow and be accepted increasing the flow of people. Also the deportation figures under the agreement were very low indeed and the agreement works both ways. In the last few years of operating, more people were deported to the UK than out of the UK under this Dublin agreementI've seen an argument that Dublin was a deterrent for even trying. I suspect many didn't know but the removal of Dublin is being used as part of any criminal gangs grooming/conning.
Or it now makes the uk more attractive for the gangs. Who were previously targeting other countries. "
It would not surprise me if criminal gangs used its ending to somehow persuade people they have a better chance of being accepted but that's just it, they are criminals and not interested in the actual truth or more to the point not telling the migrants the actual truth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think."
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755 |
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"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755"
I love how you demand an answer to your questions whilst choosing to ignore any points made.
What does our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement tell us? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
We all seem to forget the migrants in Calais climbing on lorries to get over the channel, it wasn't that long ago.
They fined drivers, installed equipment to detect stowaways and worked with the French authorities to more or leas wipe it out, there was a huge dip in successful crossings.
Gangs changed the tactics and here we are.
Simply opening up the borders to allow any one who simply likes the idea of being in the UK is not the answer and is a sure fire way of building local resistance, however not singling out the people who are really in need of help is equally as bad.
There is no viable answer on the table, because there are those who want a total open border policy and those that want totally closed border.
There are solutions, such as, anyone arriving without a valid from of identity will not gain entry, nothing to process means not entry. This has merit and could make a difference, however the Rwanda implementation has been divisive to deal with those who fail to meet requirements.
And here we are again, going nowhere fast and bending under the strain of criminal activity, whilst genuine people are stuck in limbo...
The next government can make a noise of how things will be different, but I very much doubt they will without one side or the other being very angry.
We (not just you and I but the forum) have discussed this at length. I think there is great merit in the “if you have ID we will treat you fairly and be able to process you more quickly as we can establish legitimacy” but “if you have no ID we will have to assume you have no valid claim and we will treat you differently”.
"
That would be a reasonable requirement at the first point of contact. If we used 2022 figures approx 44000 would have failed and 1000 passed the first hurdle.
That in itself is an interesting stat |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755"
Have considered lockdowns and people being held back in 2020 or does that not play into the picture you would like to paint? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
I love how you demand an answer to your questions whilst choosing to ignore any points made.
What does our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement tell us?"
We don't have to justify answers! you said the figures were going down so things are working earlier without citing what it is that's working |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
Have considered lockdowns and people being held back in 2020 or does that not play into the picture you would like to paint?"
those famous 2018 and 19 lockdowns? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
Have considered lockdowns and people being held back in 2020 or does that not play into the picture you would like to paint? those famous 2018 and 19 lockdowns?"
The probability of a steadily rising number of people illegally entering the country would be more likely had a world lockdown not interrupted the activity. Post lockdown, the need to earn and seek a better life was exponentially increased, as the figures you have provided prove.
|
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"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
I love how you demand an answer to your questions whilst choosing to ignore any points made.
What does our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement tell us?
We don't have to justify answers! you said the figures were going down so things are working earlier without citing what it is that's working "
What is it that's working exactly? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). "
Please, for the love of Christ, learn about the terms you use. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers).
Please, for the love of Christ, learn about the terms you use. "
Oooh I do love it when a left winger try’s to educate on language and its nuances. Please do educate us about the term illegal migrant |
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French. "
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws. |
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"
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers).
Please, for the love of Christ, learn about the terms you use. "
A rose would smell as sweet by any other name. You know perfectly well my meaning. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
Nobody reads my long posts
Don’t blame them really
Anyway here is something relevant again...
“The report explains: "The UK's lack of a returns policy is the most significant pull factor for small boat journeys. Leaving the EU without a returns arrangement has meant individuals can now travel to the UK with the knowledge it is much more difficult for them to be returned post-2020 – which has not been true when the UK was in the EU pre-2020. When coupled with slow processing times for asylum applications, the UK has become easier to remain inside if and when migrants are able to get to our shores."
Is that basically what I just said?
Migrants are more than happy to get on a boat because they know we can't return them.
I defintely think that says more about those migrants than it does anyone else.
Tbf, I skipped a lot of posts, I did read then but there was so many since when I was last on."
Yes it was some info to support your point  |
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"I disappeared for a while. Its now much further along than when I left but if anyone wants to pick it up again feel free to direct your posts at me
You were about to pinpoint the time the Dublin agreement stopped applying to the UK I think
I defintely wasn't, I don't see how it comes into play.
You'll argue that our withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement means we can't send people back. That actually says more about the people arriving than you think.
As you won't answer I ll put it in your time line.
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
No longer subject to Dublin regs
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755
Have considered lockdowns and people being held back in 2020 or does that not play into the picture you would like to paint? those famous 2018 and 19 lockdowns?
The probability of a steadily rising number of people illegally entering the country would be more likely had a world lockdown not interrupted the activity. Post lockdown, the need to earn and seek a better life was exponentially increased, as the figures you have provided prove.
"
As I put in another post 1 tries it and it works calls home. Give it a go all good. 10 try etc all get roof and food. Not saying thy should not but it will grow and grow. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers).
Please, for the love of Christ, learn about the terms you use.
Oooh I do love it when a left winger try’s to educate on language and its nuances. Please do educate us about the term illegal migrant"
I’ve explained this to you several times, but you still insist upon using incorrect terminology, so what’s the point? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers).
Please, for the love of Christ, learn about the terms you use.
Oooh I do love it when a left winger try’s to educate on language and its nuances. Please do educate us about the term illegal migrant
I’ve explained this to you several times, but you still insist upon using incorrect terminology, so what’s the point?"
I do use correct terminology, unfortunately you don’t or can’t??
|
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
Oooh I do love it when a left winger try’s to educate on language and its nuances. Please do educate us about the term illegal migrant
'try’s to educate on language'
..Left wing spell check!
"
Thank you, silly me! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws."
albanians declared themselves as Albanian?
So we do know their country of origin.
|
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"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws.albanians declared themselves as Albanian?
So we do know their country of origin.
"
Yes. They declared themselves as Albanian. This does not mean other declared themselves as afghan and were honest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws.albanians declared themselves as Albanian?
So we do know their country of origin.
Yes. They declared themselves as Albanian. This does not mean other declared themselves as afghan and were honest."
in which case I revert to "I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying the Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French." |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws.albanians declared themselves as Albanian?
So we do know their country of origin.
Yes. They declared themselves as Albanian. This does not mean other declared themselves as afghan and were honest.in which case I revert to "I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying the Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.""
That is a rather a strange comparison! What are the distinguishing features of a French male and an English male? how do you tell them apart if the only answer given was Non, oui and Je ne comprends pas.. Or no, yes and I do not understand |
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" It's like saying the Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French."
That is a rather a strange comparison! What are the distinguishing features of a French male and an English male? how do you tell them apart if the only answer given was Non, oui and Je ne comprends pas.. Or no, yes and I do not understand "
A smart Chinese would know that unlike when an Englishman uses 'I' anywhere in a sentence, a Frenchman only capitalises 'je' at the beginning of one! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws.albanians declared themselves as Albanian?
So we do know their country of origin.
Yes. They declared themselves as Albanian. This does not mean other declared themselves as afghan and were honest.in which case I revert to "I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying the Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French."
That is a rather a strange comparison! What are the distinguishing features of a French male and an English male? how do you tell them apart if the only answer given was Non, oui and Je ne comprends pas.. Or no, yes and I do not understand "
"Pour quel motif demandez-vous l'asile"
Its not a police interview. We take years to process a case (and one assumes they are pleasing a case to stay). If you can't work out the difference between nationalities in that time, you may need to revisit careers. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"" It's like saying the Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French."
That is a rather a strange comparison! What are the distinguishing features of a French male and an English male? how do you tell them apart if the only answer given was Non, oui and Je ne comprends pas.. Or no, yes and I do not understand "
A smart Chinese would know that unlike when an Englishman uses 'I' anywhere in a sentence, a Frenchman only capitalises 'je' at the beginning of one!"
It would indeed be a very smart Chinese person to notice how a French male writes their words, from how they speak.
I think you are trying to balance the score, trust me you wont wait long for that opportunity, so best not to be hungry ... |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"These are tragic events that should not be occurring. For me, the main culprits are the French who've allowed migrants to trek across their country and pitch-up at Calais waiting to be smuggled across the channel. They could, and should, have done far more to stem the flow. We've even had to resort to paying them to graciously police their borders. So much for EU co-operation! At least Braverman is trying to do something. But our government's hands are tied by ECHR laws and French inaction.
Braverman is waisting time on things that will never work Rwanda hasn't worked and has cost 140m plus, these barges won't work, people aren't being processed and the barges will end up being a waste of time to.
Blaming the French and ECHR is frankly idiotic and doesn't help as we have no realistic control of either unless you actually want to leave the ECHR because of this which is like burning down your house because you don't like a patch of carpet.
So what will work then? We've been sitting around gormlessly for decades watching our borders being violated by illegal migrants (not asylum seekers). There comes a point when the talking has to stop and the doing has to start. The truth about the French, is that they turn a blind eye, and are happy to shunt migrants across the channel to become the UK's problem. It's naïve to think otherwise.
Opening safe routes and actually processing applications if you are talking about the small boats
Actually we have asylum processing rules. But they have been abused for decades - exploited by economic migrants and criminals who then hide behind the ECHR. Our asylum rules should be championing those poor girls in Afghanistan who are denied basic human rights. Instead we are getting hardened Albanian criminals roaming our streets.
Please can you explain how these asylum processing rules work in practice. How, for example would a girl in Afghanistan apply for asylum in the UK?
I can't explain, and that's exactly my point. It's been necessary to tighten asylum rules to the point where they are almost impossible to navigate. Why? Because of decades of abuse by economic migrants being exploited by criminal gangs hiding behind ECHR laws. Now we have a situation where genuine asylum seekers have no route to safety. It's the bogus asylum seekers that need to be stopped, and their criminal cronies.
And opening safe routes?
Provided they're not abused, but what's the difference from the previous asylum rules that had to be tightened? How are you going to stop the dinghies full of 'illegals'? Because they'll still come.
How, in the past, did those safe routes operate? How were those routes abused?
For as long as I can remember we had stories of people hiding in or being smuggled in by truck (remember all those Vietnamese people who died inside the truck). Those were still illegal routes. How were the safe routes exploited?
Because the asylum system became overloaded when thousands of bogus applicants began arriving illegally, trafficked by criminal gangs. Even if you have 'safe routes' what's to stop the illegal migrants washing up on our beaches every day of the year? We are still faced with the problems of processing thousands of unvetted (mostly) males, and then what to do with failed applicants.
You got evidence for these bogus claims? 73 percent of applications were successful on the last count!
Again with this stat.
How do you deport some one to a countrynof origin you dont know?
how do we know x per cent are Albanian etc?
I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying ten Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French.
Many of the Albanians declared themselves as such. Because they thought they would be allowed Dinton the country as part of modern sl@very laws.albanians declared themselves as Albanian?
So we do know their country of origin.
Yes. They declared themselves as Albanian. This does not mean other declared themselves as afghan and were honest.in which case I revert to "I'm cynical we don't know where people are from. It's like saying the Chinese couldn't distinguish between the british and the French."
That is a rather a strange comparison! What are the distinguishing features of a French male and an English male? how do you tell them apart if the only answer given was Non, oui and Je ne comprends pas.. Or no, yes and I do not understand "Pour quel motif demandez-vous l'asile"
Its not a police interview. We take years to process a case (and one assumes they are pleasing a case to stay). If you can't work out the difference between nationalities in that time, you may need to revisit careers."
I think you're applying a logic that is not apparent in the real world. The game is loaded in favour of those who are playing the system. |
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