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Senior doctors striking
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's not exactly greed when the increase is still below inflation. Prices rarely go down. The only thing that went down for us was SIM only phone contracts. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"It's not exactly greed when the increase is still below inflation. Prices rarely go down. The only thing that went down for us was SIM only phone contracts."
The next time I see a consultant lining up behind nurses at a food bank, I'll give you a shout. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)? "
Yep. This, 100% |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?"
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take? "
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining? |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining? "
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages. "
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut? |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?"
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have no issues whatsoever with them wanting more. These people are out saving lives yet footballers get up to 500k a week ? Pay them there money and cut the politicians wages instead |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands. "
I kind of understand your point about percentages, but the cost of labour is largely based around supply and demand. If you're in demand you should never do something on the cheap, no matter what job it is.
I for instance can easily earn more than a consultant in my profession, I didn't have to fund several years of med school though to do that, neither have I ever earned poor starting wages. Nevermind the fact if I fuck up I don't really run the risk of hurting someone, unlike killing or severly maiming them and have their family suing me into the ground, blaming me for turning up to work to earn money.
People forget doctors, just like everyone else, turn up to work to earn money I think. Job satisfaction doesn't pay bills. |
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""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
I kind of understand your point about percentages, but the cost of labour is largely based around supply and demand. If you're in demand you should never do something on the cheap, no matter what job it is.
I for instance can easily earn more than a consultant in my profession, I didn't have to fund several years of med school though to do that, neither have I ever earned poor starting wages. Nevermind the fact if I fuck up I don't really run the risk of hurting someone, unlike killing or severly maiming them and have their family suing me into the ground, blaming me for turning up to work to earn money.
People forget doctors, just like everyone else, turn up to work to earn money I think. Job satisfaction doesn't pay bills."
I would be happy for drs to receive the basic pay increases linked to inflation (cpih) but I would jabe this go back all the way to the beginning of the nhs. Whatever the wage was.
You get the rough with the smooth.
If theres deflation you get a wage cut.
If there inflation a wage rise, if inflation is measured at 0..you get bo payrise.
Do away with any other type of pension bar the minimum 1+1
No other benefits. No 10% discount at Morrisons, no cheaper car finance, no 25% off of phone bills etc I'd do awaynwith all the perks the private taxpayer pays for or does not receive.
I would cut costs to park the car ( I've no idea why hospitals don't have large multistory car parks, it's jsut stupid)
Welcome to the private sector. Nurses and drs etc.
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?"
The ones earning the sums you're talking about aren't as common as you seem to think. The ones on a basic of £100k are at least mid 40s and done years of speciality training. Probably on 60 hour a week earning 55k. I can earn that in a 42 hour week without breaking a sweat and not having half those bs hoops to jump through. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
The ones earning the sums you're talking about aren't as common as you seem to think. The ones on a basic of £100k are at least mid 40s and done years of speciality training. Probably on 60 hour a week earning 55k. I can earn that in a 42 hour week without breaking a sweat and not having half those bs hoops to jump through."
Find me a consultant who works a 60hr week for 55k and I'll gladly agree with you. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?"
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?"
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?"
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike."
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!! |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)? "
Absolutely they have the right to strike, but they are in an enviable position that they could choose to do it when the country is not on its knees financially and the NHS isn't as broken. They may then get the public on-side. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying?"
Very limited sectors have had decent increases. I'm not going to go through every single one.
You've picked 2 industries across the whole spectrum. Now go have a look at retail or office/administration. I know, a lot of those roles are unskilled. That doesn't take away the fact that a large majority of the country have had no choice but to accept much lower than inflation increases. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)?
Absolutely they have the right to strike, but they are in an enviable position that they could choose to do it when the country is not on its knees financially and the NHS isn't as broken. They may then get the public on-side."
The consultants didn’t break the NHS. Why should they suffer for it? |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
The ones earning the sums you're talking about aren't as common as you seem to think. The ones on a basic of £100k are at least mid 40s and done years of speciality training. Probably on 60 hour a week earning 55k. I can earn that in a 42 hour week without breaking a sweat and not having half those bs hoops to jump through.
Find me a consultant who works a 60hr week for 55k and I'll gladly agree with you. "
I was talking about docs in special training, their max wage is prob £70k-80k. No that's not small feed, but what I also forgot to mention is that a large amount of that gets super taxed, so it's not much of a jump to someone earning £10-15k less is it? Not to mention that tax receipts like that go back into the treasury anyway so you're not technically giving much more away. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back. "
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!"
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yeah what greedy pigs.
I want the Senior Consultant I need to see to have bought his doctorate on the dark web and passed the absolute maximum of a 2-day St. John's Ambulance first aid course. I also want him/her/they to be paid less than a McDonald's McFlurry Operative (Preferably paid in the form of Luncheon Vouchers) and do at least 129 hours per week minimum without over time. If he could clean my car (wax & interior) while I wait my for MRI scan results - this will be a cheeky bonus.
Come on guys, the water's just fine.. it's a race to the bottom here. Woohoo.
FFS  |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
The ones earning the sums you're talking about aren't as common as you seem to think. The ones on a basic of £100k are at least mid 40s and done years of speciality training. Probably on 60 hour a week earning 55k. I can earn that in a 42 hour week without breaking a sweat and not having half those bs hoops to jump through.
Find me a consultant who works a 60hr week for 55k and I'll gladly agree with you.
I was talking about docs in special training, their max wage is prob £70k-80k. No that's not small feed, but what I also forgot to mention is that a large amount of that gets super taxed, so it's not much of a jump to someone earning £10-15k less is it? Not to mention that tax receipts like that go back into the treasury anyway so you're not technically giving much more away."
Doctors in training earning 70-80k?
Why did you mention 55k?
This is about consultants striking. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
I kind of understand your point about percentages, but the cost of labour is largely based around supply and demand. If you're in demand you should never do something on the cheap, no matter what job it is.
I for instance can easily earn more than a consultant in my profession, I didn't have to fund several years of med school though to do that, neither have I ever earned poor starting wages. Nevermind the fact if I fuck up I don't really run the risk of hurting someone, unlike killing or severly maiming them and have their family suing me into the ground, blaming me for turning up to work to earn money.
People forget doctors, just like everyone else, turn up to work to earn money I think. Job satisfaction doesn't pay bills."
There has been a crisis in nurses numbers since before the year 2000. It is only recently that has extended to other healthcare professionals - maybe Brexit? In fact there's a worldwide shortage of nurses. |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)?
Absolutely they have the right to strike, but they are in an enviable position that they could choose to do it when the country is not on its knees financially and the NHS isn't as broken. They may then get the public on-side."
The doctors salaries aren't to blame for the national debt, are they? And the NHS is on it's knees largely because it's not an attractive profession, you think wage stagnation is going to change that? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)?
Absolutely they have the right to strike, but they are in an enviable position that they could choose to do it when the country is not on its knees financially and the NHS isn't as broken. They may then get the public on-side."
I don’t get this POV sorry. Either people have the right to strike or they don’t. Who decides where the arbitrary cut off point is that says “you are in an enviable position”?
The real reason many of those in the private sector now lambast the public sector is the continued de-unionisation that has happened in the private sector since the days of Thatcher. The loss of collective bargaining has led to the loss of decent pension schemes etc.
But instead of saying “wait a minute, I should get the same good/better deal as those in the public sector (except their lower salaries I don’t want that)” what they say is “they should get a worse deal like me!” |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)?
Absolutely they have the right to strike, but they are in an enviable position that they could choose to do it when the country is not on its knees financially and the NHS isn't as broken. They may then get the public on-side.
The consultants didn’t break the NHS. Why should they suffer for it? "
Suffer  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying?
Very limited sectors have had decent increases. I'm not going to go through every single one.
You've picked 2 industries across the whole spectrum. Now go have a look at retail or office/administration. I know, a lot of those roles are unskilled. That doesn't take away the fact that a large majority of the country have had no choice but to accept much lower than inflation increases."
So? Maybe they should unionise and do something about it! Not seeing much pay restraint at C suite level! Not seeing much restraint in dividends to shareholders to support workforces! Nah you’re just bashing the public sector because they can try and do something about unfair treatment. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Yeah what greedy pigs.
I want the Senior Consultant I need to see to have bought his doctorate on the dark web and passed the absolute maximum of a 2-day St. John's Ambulance first aid course. I also want him/her/they to be paid less than a McDonald's McFlurry Operative (Preferably paid in the form of Luncheon Vouchers) and do at least 129 hours per week minimum without over time. If he could clean my car (wax & interior) while I wait my for MRI scan results - this will be a cheeky bonus.
Come on guys, the water's just fine.. it's a race to the bottom here. Woohoo.
FFS "
Context sunshine |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
“They earn a good salary and have a great pension. And all they did to get it was study for decades, work really hard at all hours of day and night, sacrifice time with loved ones, go without holidays, run up masses of student debt, pay for their own exams, save lives, deal with immense grief, witness horrendous tragedies and fight off d*unk patients that needed assistance. How dare they?!” |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
The ones earning the sums you're talking about aren't as common as you seem to think. The ones on a basic of £100k are at least mid 40s and done years of speciality training. Probably on 60 hour a week earning 55k. I can earn that in a 42 hour week without breaking a sweat and not having half those bs hoops to jump through.
Find me a consultant who works a 60hr week for 55k and I'll gladly agree with you.
I was talking about docs in special training, their max wage is prob £70k-80k. No that's not small feed, but what I also forgot to mention is that a large amount of that gets super taxed, so it's not much of a jump to someone earning £10-15k less is it? Not to mention that tax receipts like that go back into the treasury anyway so you're not technically giving much more away.
Doctors in training earning 70-80k?
Why did you mention 55k?
This is about consultants striking."
*Early consultants* in training yes, CAN earn that.
55k because that's probably about average for a "specialist doctor"
No it's about management level doctors, probably about 4 of them in a trust depending on it's size, not exactly a lot is it. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying?
Very limited sectors have had decent increases. I'm not going to go through every single one.
You've picked 2 industries across the whole spectrum. Now go have a look at retail or office/administration. I know, a lot of those roles are unskilled. That doesn't take away the fact that a large majority of the country have had no choice but to accept much lower than inflation increases.
So? Maybe they should unionise and do something about it! Not seeing much pay restraint at C suite level! Not seeing much restraint in dividends to shareholders to support workforces! Nah you’re just bashing the public sector because they can try and do something about unfair treatment."
An awful lotbof private sector jobs have 'no unionising' clauses so that's not possible for them.
As Morley suggested, we don't see the public sector complaining when they are receiving above inflation rises. They just want to have their cake and eat it.
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages. |
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|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse "
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages. "
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though? |
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|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back.
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll."
Sounding a bit like one of our American friends! |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
The ones earning the sums you're talking about aren't as common as you seem to think. The ones on a basic of £100k are at least mid 40s and done years of speciality training. Probably on 60 hour a week earning 55k. I can earn that in a 42 hour week without breaking a sweat and not having half those bs hoops to jump through.
Find me a consultant who works a 60hr week for 55k and I'll gladly agree with you.
I was talking about docs in special training, their max wage is prob £70k-80k. No that's not small feed, but what I also forgot to mention is that a large amount of that gets super taxed, so it's not much of a jump to someone earning £10-15k less is it? Not to mention that tax receipts like that go back into the treasury anyway so you're not technically giving much more away.
Doctors in training earning 70-80k?
Why did you mention 55k?
This is about consultants striking.
*Early consultants* in training yes, CAN earn that.
55k because that's probably about average for a "specialist doctor"
No it's about management level doctors, probably about 4 of them in a trust depending on it's size, not exactly a lot is it."
I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make.
According to the BMA, the wage for a consultant starts at 88k. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back.
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll.
Sounding a bit like one of our American friends! "
Definitely not. But for finances, I'll only ever rely on my own self |
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or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though? "
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage? |
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or View forums list | |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector."
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary. |
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|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying?
Very limited sectors have had decent increases. I'm not going to go through every single one.
You've picked 2 industries across the whole spectrum. Now go have a look at retail or office/administration. I know, a lot of those roles are unskilled. That doesn't take away the fact that a large majority of the country have had no choice but to accept much lower than inflation increases.
So? Maybe they should unionise and do something about it! Not seeing much pay restraint at C suite level! Not seeing much restraint in dividends to shareholders to support workforces! Nah you’re just bashing the public sector because they can try and do something about unfair treatment.
An awful lotbof private sector jobs have 'no unionising' clauses so that's not possible for them.
As Morley suggested, we don't see the public sector complaining when they are receiving above inflation rises. They just want to have their cake and eat it.
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages. "
Now you’re talking nonsense. Why should anyone not take a pay rise? Are you saying you would? “Thanks for the pay rise guv’nor but as things are pretty good right now and inflation is down, I don’t want it!” LMFAO.
I tell you what, you and Morley can come and work for me any time  |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?"
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked. |
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|
By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"OP so are you saying only lower paid professions should strike? Isn’t everyone entitled to strike if they are unhappy about their working conditions (inc salary)?
Absolutely they have the right to strike, but they are in an enviable position that they could choose to do it when the country is not on its knees financially and the NHS isn't as broken. They may then get the public on-side.
I don’t get this POV sorry. Either people have the right to strike or they don’t. Who decides where the arbitrary cut off point is that says “you are in an enviable position”?
The real reason many of those in the private sector now lambast the public sector is the continued de-unionisation that has happened in the private sector since the days of Thatcher. The loss of collective bargaining has led to the loss of decent pension schemes etc.
But instead of saying “wait a minute, I should get the same good/better deal as those in the public sector (except their lower salaries I don’t want that)” what they say is “they should get a worse deal like me!”"
I said they had the right! Enviable, because they are hardly choosing between feeding their children or themselves.
They are just joining the bandwagon of strikers, and thereby holding the NHS to ransom.
Mark my words, they will get a better paydeal but remember for every percent increase the majority will get more than the entire uplift for each nurse. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary. "
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying?
Very limited sectors have had decent increases. I'm not going to go through every single one.
You've picked 2 industries across the whole spectrum. Now go have a look at retail or office/administration. I know, a lot of those roles are unskilled. That doesn't take away the fact that a large majority of the country have had no choice but to accept much lower than inflation increases.
So? Maybe they should unionise and do something about it! Not seeing much pay restraint at C suite level! Not seeing much restraint in dividends to shareholders to support workforces! Nah you’re just bashing the public sector because they can try and do something about unfair treatment.
An awful lotbof private sector jobs have 'no unionising' clauses so that's not possible for them.
As Morley suggested, we don't see the public sector complaining when they are receiving above inflation rises. They just want to have their cake and eat it.
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
Now you’re talking nonsense. Why should anyone not take a pay rise? Are you saying you would? “Thanks for the pay rise guv’nor but as things are pretty good right now and inflation is down, I don’t want it!” LMFAO.
I tell you what, you and Morley can come and work for me any time "
Rough with smooth. I didn't say they shouldn't accept it, they should accept that things are rough and they're not going to get as much as they'd like. |
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or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked."
Year after year? |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour. "
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. " |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?"
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year. |
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|
By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"“They earn a good salary and have a great pension. And all they did to get it was study for decades, work really hard at all hours of day and night, sacrifice time with loved ones, go without holidays, run up masses of student debt, pay for their own exams, save lives, deal with immense grief, witness horrendous tragedies and fight off d*unk patients that needed assistance. How dare they?!”"
We know what your brother does. I'm simply saying the timing stinks. |
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".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year."
When did that happen? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. ""
Oh I see. It’s your comprehension that’s gone awry.
My bad. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?"
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. "
Oh I see. It’s your comprehension that’s gone awry.
My bad."
Keep up with the personal insults. It just makes you look a certain way  |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. "
Oh I see. It’s your comprehension that’s gone awry.
My bad.
Keep up with the personal insults. It just makes you look a certain way "
Wasn’t an insult. More of an observation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no? "
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served. |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. "
Oh I see. It’s your comprehension that’s gone awry.
My bad.
Keep up with the personal insults. It just makes you look a certain way
Wasn’t an insult. More of an observation."
Yeah OK mate, true to form as always. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served. "
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it? |
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or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it? "
You claimed year after year. When did that happen? |
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|
By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served. "
Increments - that's all changed. And anyway for years nurses only got 1% if they had reached their top incremental level otherwise it was 0%.
Those numbers in the OP includes the increments. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it?
You claimed year after year. When did that happen?"
*sigh*
If someone has had at or below inflation rises for let’s say 10 years, but there was one year where they received one above inflation pay rise…
You know what? I can’t be arsed to explain it.
They have the right to withhold their labour, just the same as everyone else. They’ve been treated like shite for too long (yes it’s possible to earn great money and get treated like shite) and best of luck to them. End of story.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it?
You claimed year after year. When did that happen?
*sigh*
If someone has had at or below inflation rises for let’s say 10 years, but there was one year where they received one above inflation pay rise…
You know what? I can’t be arsed to explain it.
They have the right to withhold their labour, just the same as everyone else. They’ve been treated like shite for too long (yes it’s possible to earn great money and get treated like shite) and best of luck to them. End of story.
"
*sigh*
I can't be arsed to ask the question again. If it hasn't actually happened then just say so.
Since when did you become an expert in how consultants are treated? |
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or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Increments - that's all changed. And anyway for years nurses only got 1% if they had reached their top incremental level otherwise it was 0%.
Those numbers in the OP includes the increments."
Fair enough, I take back my comment. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it?
You claimed year after year. When did that happen?
*sigh*
If someone has had at or below inflation rises for let’s say 10 years, but there was one year where they received one above inflation pay rise…
You know what? I can’t be arsed to explain it.
They have the right to withhold their labour, just the same as everyone else. They’ve been treated like shite for too long (yes it’s possible to earn great money and get treated like shite) and best of luck to them. End of story.
*sigh*
I can't be arsed to ask the question again. If it hasn't actually happened then just say so.
Since when did you become an expert in how consultants are treated?"
My brother is one, remember? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it?
You claimed year after year. When did that happen?
*sigh*
If someone has had at or below inflation rises for let’s say 10 years, but there was one year where they received one above inflation pay rise…
You know what? I can’t be arsed to explain it.
They have the right to withhold their labour, just the same as everyone else. They’ve been treated like shite for too long (yes it’s possible to earn great money and get treated like shite) and best of luck to them. End of story.
*sigh*
I can't be arsed to ask the question again. If it hasn't actually happened then just say so.
Since when did you become an expert in how consultants are treated?
My brother is one, remember?"
Yeah I never believed that |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it?
You claimed year after year. When did that happen?
*sigh*
If someone has had at or below inflation rises for let’s say 10 years, but there was one year where they received one above inflation pay rise…
You know what? I can’t be arsed to explain it.
They have the right to withhold their labour, just the same as everyone else. They’ve been treated like shite for too long (yes it’s possible to earn great money and get treated like shite) and best of luck to them. End of story.
*sigh*
I can't be arsed to ask the question again. If it hasn't actually happened then just say so.
Since when did you become an expert in how consultants are treated?
My brother is one, remember?
Yeah I never believed that "
I couldn’t give two fucks what you believe. I’ve proved it on fabs once already when I sent Morley links to papers he’s co-written. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
No. We’re questioning how much wage stagnation one should be expected to just accept year after year. Which was the question I asked.
Year after year?
Yes. Successive pay deals that are equal to or lower than inflation is wage stagnation. Year after year.
When did that happen?
The OP outlined the real terms wage cuts, no?
Yes, over a period. Not year after year.
The OP also forgot to mention that over that same period would've had a yearly increase on top of % for years served.
Oh over a period. That pay cut is acceptable then, is it?
You claimed year after year. When did that happen?
*sigh*
If someone has had at or below inflation rises for let’s say 10 years, but there was one year where they received one above inflation pay rise…
You know what? I can’t be arsed to explain it.
They have the right to withhold their labour, just the same as everyone else. They’ve been treated like shite for too long (yes it’s possible to earn great money and get treated like shite) and best of luck to them. End of story.
*sigh*
I can't be arsed to ask the question again. If it hasn't actually happened then just say so.
Since when did you become an expert in how consultants are treated?
My brother is one, remember?
Yeah I never believed that
I couldn’t give two fucks what you believe. I’ve proved it on fabs once already when I sent Morley links to papers he’s co-written."
I wasn't asking you to give even one fuck. Chill out bro |
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|
By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?"
I've not seen anyone say £90k is poor or that anyone shouldn't be happy with that wage, albeit like i said, you're pay is reflective of your value and demand to the organisation.
My point is that you seem believe "consultants" are any doctor who has finished their basic training, foundation 1 and 2 or something or other, im not that clued up on medical pathways, but i have a rough idea. Let me tell you though, a "senior consultant" they're on nothing like 80k. That's a manager wage. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
I've not seen anyone say £90k is poor or that anyone shouldn't be happy with that wage, albeit like i said, you're pay is reflective of your value and demand to the organisation.
My point is that you seem believe "consultants" are any doctor who has finished their basic training, foundation 1 and 2 or something or other, im not that clued up on medical pathways, but i have a rough idea. Let me tell you though, a "senior consultant" they're on nothing like 80k. That's a manager wage."
You really should consult the BMA and find out just how much consultants earn. Hint: it's more than 80k basic |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
I've not seen anyone say £90k is poor or that anyone shouldn't be happy with that wage, albeit like i said, you're pay is reflective of your value and demand to the organisation.
My point is that you seem believe "consultants" are any doctor who has finished their basic training, foundation 1 and 2 or something or other, im not that clued up on medical pathways, but i have a rough idea. Let me tell you though, a "senior consultant" they're on nothing like 80k. That's a manager wage.
You really should consult the BMA and find out just how much consultants earn. Hint: it's more than 80k basic "
Which doesn’t remove their right to strike. They could be paid £500k and still have the right to withdraw their labour. |
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".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
I've not seen anyone say £90k is poor or that anyone shouldn't be happy with that wage, albeit like i said, you're pay is reflective of your value and demand to the organisation.
My point is that you seem believe "consultants" are any doctor who has finished their basic training, foundation 1 and 2 or something or other, im not that clued up on medical pathways, but i have a rough idea. Let me tell you though, a "senior consultant" they're on nothing like 80k. That's a manager wage.
You really should consult the BMA and find out just how much consultants earn. Hint: it's more than 80k basic
Which doesn’t remove their right to strike. They could be paid £500k and still have the right to withdraw their labour. "
No one has said they don't have the right. Doesn't mean we have to like it.
I can give you some examples of things that you despise despite being legally correct if you please |
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|
By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
I've not seen anyone say £90k is poor or that anyone shouldn't be happy with that wage, albeit like i said, you're pay is reflective of your value and demand to the organisation.
My point is that you seem believe "consultants" are any doctor who has finished their basic training, foundation 1 and 2 or something or other, im not that clued up on medical pathways, but i have a rough idea. Let me tell you though, a "senior consultant" they're on nothing like 80k. That's a manager wage.
You really should consult the BMA and find out just how much consultants earn. Hint: it's more than 80k basic "
Yep it's more like what I quoted in the OP. If it's wrong, blame the BBC 1pm news on iPlayer  |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Is that true though? I mean the BoE is demanding par restraint blaming surging salaries for inflation. Companies cannot fill vacancies so are putting up salaries to attract new staff. After Brexit we saw some sectors such as lorry drivers get big pay rises (and being touted as a brexit win). Trades have all increased prices now their is less competition from EU workers. So who exactly is it that has had to accept below inflation pay rises because the only area I am seeing this is the public sector!
Or is the BoE lying?"
I think their payrise was actually smaller than the one the nhs workers got backdated.
|
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
".
A person (I don't care how skilled) can forego an inflation busting increase when they are already earning decent wages.
They can - Whether they should or not is the question at hand.
How many years of wage stagnation should someone be willing to accept before enough is enough, though?
Pay scales for consultants will also increase by 6%, meaning starting basic full-time pay will increase from more than £88,300 to £93,600. Full-time equivalent basic pay for consultants will increase by around £6,300 on average.
Are we really questioning whether this isn't a good enough wage?
I've not seen anyone say £90k is poor or that anyone shouldn't be happy with that wage, albeit like i said, you're pay is reflective of your value and demand to the organisation.
My point is that you seem believe "consultants" are any doctor who has finished their basic training, foundation 1 and 2 or something or other, im not that clued up on medical pathways, but i have a rough idea. Let me tell you though, a "senior consultant" they're on nothing like 80k. That's a manager wage.
You really should consult the BMA and find out just how much consultants earn. Hint: it's more than 80k basic
Which doesn’t remove their right to strike. They could be paid £500k and still have the right to withdraw their labour. "
And yes, that is exactly the point. Regardless of their pay or standing, but if we're talking about "senior doctors", their pay is irrelevant as to their right to strike. |
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"It's not exactly greed when the increase is still below inflation. Prices rarely go down. The only thing that went down for us was SIM only phone contracts."
I was a government employee for many years so understand well how Conservative governments always try to use the suppression of public sector pay as a means of funding, amongst other things, tax cuts for the well off.
However, who ever promised you your wages would always keep pace with inflation?
The value to the economy of people goes up and down. In war we are happy to pay our service men and women well. In peacetimes we wonder why we are wasting our money.
When we are sick we want Doctors and nurses, when we are healthy we want 2p off the standard rate.
Every time these people strike they are weakened a little financially. At the same time the Government and Hospital trusts are saving money on the wage bill. One day the two will balance out and everyone will go back to work. |
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Re lorry drivers vs nurses.
I'll need some help here on the comprehension.
Lorry drivers in 2010 paid £9.87 an hour.(minimal benefits) sleeping alone in their vehicles long drives usually bight work encapsulated in the salary.
2020 salary £11.80 19% of 10 years.( no bonuses typically)
Band 5 nurses
2010 paid 27500 with 7 year experience.
Paid unsociable hours working through night and Sundays?
In 2020 7 years experience 30615
In
2020 7 years experience paid 30615
If you take into account the original starting salary 1 year experience
2010 band 5 1 year pay 21176
7 years + experience 30615 by 2020
This is 44%
Have I missed something?
Are people envious of lorry drivers?
|
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I've used ons for lorry drivers pay and nursingtimes . net for the nurses
I chose at random.
Am I missing something.
I haven't included pensions and other benefits.
My assumption on lorry driver bonuses comes from my work as an accountant for a well known logistics company that was in the ftse 100. No bonuses were paid in the years I was there to the lorry drivers.
|
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Re lorry drivers vs nurses.
I'll need some help here on the comprehension.
Lorry drivers in 2010 paid £9.87 an hour.(minimal benefits) sleeping alone in their vehicles long drives usually bight work encapsulated in the salary.
2020 salary £11.80 19% of 10 years.( no bonuses typically)
Band 5 nurses
2010 paid 27500 with 7 year experience.
Paid unsociable hours working through night and Sundays?
In 2020 7 years experience 30615
In
2020 7 years experience paid 30615
If you take into account the original starting salary 1 year experience
2010 band 5 1 year pay 21176
7 years + experience 30615 by 2020
This is 44%
Have I missed something?
Are people envious of lorry drivers?
"
2010 7 years experience £27,534
2020 last spine (6+ years experience) £30,615 =11.2%
|
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"Re lorry drivers vs nurses.
I'll need some help here on the comprehension.
Lorry drivers in 2010 paid £9.87 an hour.(minimal benefits) sleeping alone in their vehicles long drives usually bight work encapsulated in the salary.
2020 salary £11.80 19% of 10 years.( no bonuses typically)
Band 5 nurses
2010 paid 27500 with 7 year experience.
Paid unsociable hours working through night and Sundays?
In 2020 7 years experience 30615
In
2020 7 years experience paid 30615
If you take into account the original starting salary 1 year experience
2010 band 5 1 year pay 21176
7 years + experience 30615 by 2020
This is 44%
Have I missed something?
Are people envious of lorry drivers?
2010 7 years experience £27,534
2020 last spine (6+ years experience) £30,615 =11.2%
"
Sorry I thought I had out the 11%. doh!!! |
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"Nurses are the paupers of the public sector.
Newly qualified (degree) nurse 28,400
Newly qualified (degree) teacher 30,000"
As a newly qualified postgraduate in 2011. I was on 18k per annum. And had to work night and day shifts in an online bookmakers.
Nurses are the upper class of the new graduates. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
The bottom line is you are paid what you are worth in terms of skill set, and I don’t mean you are good at your job, the skill is worth the investment in you.
And the the biggest pay packet is what you do benefits the £££££’s returned or saved.
The NHS, don’t recognise this, why should they unless they need the specialist skills of particular consultants in their practices, everyone else to them is a labourer |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Nurses are the paupers of the public sector.
Newly qualified (degree) nurse 28,400
Newly qualified (degree) teacher 30,000
As a newly qualified postgraduate in 2011. I was on 18k per annum. And had to work night and day shifts in an online bookmakers.
Nurses are the upper class of the new graduates."
Qualified at what? A nursing degree is like undertaking two degrees simultaneously - the nursing qualification and the BSc medical degree.
Anyway stop being a politician and distracting from the point in hand
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"Nurses are the paupers of the public sector.
Newly qualified (degree) nurse 28,400
Newly qualified (degree) teacher 30,000
As a newly qualified postgraduate in 2011. I was on 18k per annum. And had to work night and day shifts in an online bookmakers.
Nurses are the upper class of the new graduates.
Qualified at what? A nursing degree is like undertaking two degrees simultaneously - the nursing qualification and the BSc medical degree.
Anyway stop being a politician and distracting from the point in hand
"
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Nurses are the paupers of the public sector.
Newly qualified (degree) nurse 28,400
Newly qualified (degree) teacher 30,000
As a newly qualified postgraduate in 2011. I was on 18k per annum. And had to work night and day shifts in an online bookmakers.
Nurses are the upper class of the new graduates.
Qualified at what? A nursing degree is like undertaking two degrees simultaneously - the nursing qualification and the BSc medical degree.
Anyway stop being a politician and distracting from the point in hand
"
Actually that is a fair challenge from you as OP because others on this thread regularly get bent out of shape if you don’t focus on the actual topic in hand. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. ""
Feisty mate I think you need some fab forum rest! How on Earth does that quote from me remotely say that £90k is a low salary? |
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"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. "
Feisty mate I think you need some fab forum rest! How on Earth does that quote from me remotely say that £90k is a low salary?"
You made reference to them asking for more and said I don't think they should be highly paid, the opposite of which is low pay. Maybe I got it wrong or maybe you should choose your words better? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
I am fully aware of their salary.
That doesn’t negate anyone’s right to strike.
Smells like “private sector good, public sector bad” and “how dare a highly skilled person who has chosen to work in the public sector for the benefit of all of us expect to be well paid!” I mean the bloody cheek of it!!!!
Who said the private sector was good? You're getting worse
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Literally nobody is claiming it’s a low salary.
We’re saying everybody has the right to withdraw their labour.
Birldn said:
"You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid. "
Feisty mate I think you need some fab forum rest! How on Earth does that quote from me remotely say that £90k is a low salary?
You made reference to them asking for more and said I don't think they should be highly paid, the opposite of which is low pay. Maybe I got it wrong or maybe you should choose your words better? "
Well two other posters have been clear they understood nobody had say anything about low pay, so I think the way it was worded was just fine. You’re normally better than that Feisty |
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"
Well two other posters have been clear they understood nobody had say anything about low pay, so I think the way it was worded was just fine. You’re normally better than that Feisty "
Am I actually being thick here? This is our exchange:
You said:
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
I replied:
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Please note the key "highly skilled should not be highly paid"
How else is that supposed to read? |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Nurses are the paupers of the public sector.
Newly qualified (degree) nurse 28,400
Newly qualified (degree) teacher 30,000
As a newly qualified postgraduate in 2011. I was on 18k per annum. And had to work night and day shifts in an online bookmakers.
Nurses are the upper class of the new graduates.
Qualified at what? A nursing degree is like undertaking two degrees simultaneously - the nursing qualification and the BSc medical degree.
Anyway stop being a politician and distracting from the point in hand
Actually that is a fair challenge from you as OP because others on this thread regularly get bent out of shape if you don’t focus on the actual topic in hand."
Tbh I don't care if the thread goes off on a tangent. No one person owns it. So it was tongue-in-cheek from me |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase "
The Independant Parliamentary Standards Authority is responsible for pay and pension awards to MPs. |
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"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase "
Mps don't award themselves.
This is basic stuff |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"
Well two other posters have been clear they understood nobody had say anything about low pay, so I think the way it was worded was just fine. You’re normally better than that Feisty
Am I actually being thick here? This is our exchange:
You said:
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
I replied:
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Please note the key "highly skilled should not be highly paid"
How else is that supposed to read?"
Yeah you said “Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary” but nobody said it was! So your whole point was moot and the subsequent related discussion made no sense! |
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"
Well two other posters have been clear they understood nobody had say anything about low pay, so I think the way it was worded was just fine. You’re normally better than that Feisty
Am I actually being thick here? This is our exchange:
You said:
You are just coming across as envious of public sector workers and as someone who seems to think those that are highly skilled should not be highly paid.
Senior doctors/consultants can earn a lot more abroad or in private sector.
I replied:
At what point did I say highly skilled shouldn't be highly paid?
Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary.
Please note the key "highly skilled should not be highly paid"
How else is that supposed to read?
Yeah you said “Do you genuinely think over 90k/year is a low salary? Remember, that's a basic salary” but nobody said it was! So your whole point was moot and the subsequent related discussion made no sense! "
It was in response to you saying I don't think highly skilled should be highly paid.
It makes sense to me. Maybe I'm not as bright as you and Notsofunfella |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase "
The basic salary for each Member of Parliament for the financial year 2010/11 was £65,738 per annum. 2023 £86,500; almost £21,000 increase. Which is about 30% without using a calculator. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back.
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll.
Sounding a bit like one of our American friends! "
You asked to not be involved in your posts. I did what you asked. Yet you constantly have to have a dig at people to feed your ego. Why is that ? |
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By *ertwoCouple
over a year ago
omagh |
aprox £100,000 a year plus they drag their feet to drive you into private sector operatons with the same doctor. Maybe an invetigaton is needed. Not a pay rise which we the ordinary working class will have to fund by paying more tax. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back.
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll.
Sounding a bit like one of our American friends! You asked to not be involved in your posts. I did what you asked. Yet you constantly have to have a dig at people to feed your ego. Why is that ? "
Hi Blu
1. I don’t recall me asking you not to be involved (plenty others have).
2. First time I can recall ever mentioning you?
3. What makes you assume that comment was referring to you anyway? You aren’t our only American friend! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back.
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll.
Sounding a bit like one of our American friends! You asked to not be involved in your posts. I did what you asked. Yet you constantly have to have a dig at people to feed your ego. Why is that ?
Hi Blu
1. I don’t recall me asking you not to be involved (plenty others have).
2. First time I can recall ever mentioning you?
3. What makes you assume that comment was referring to you anyway? You aren’t our only American friend!"
Who else from here comments like I do again ? Name one I'll wait...See now you want to save your appearance. Get back to me when you have your solution. Like I said you are trying to stroke your ego. I'll wait. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages.
So because they command a high salary (for very good reasons) they should be willing to accept below inflation pay rises that are effectively a pay cut?
I've said this before and I won't change my mind.
The whole country hasn't had a choice but to accept below inflation pay rises. What makes the public sector, especially high earning ones, so special?
Maybe don’t join the race to the bottom and do something about your own wages/conditions.
I guarantee the consultants, train drivers, junior doctors, teachers et al would have your back.
I'm not in any race to the bottom
No one will have my back but myself, because that's how I roll.
Sounding a bit like one of our American friends! You asked to not be involved in your posts. I did what you asked. Yet you constantly have to have a dig at people to feed your ego. Why is that ?
Hi Blu
1. I don’t recall me asking you not to be involved (plenty others have).
2. First time I can recall ever mentioning you?
3. What makes you assume that comment was referring to you anyway? You aren’t our only American friend! Who else from here comments like I do again ? Name one I'll wait...See now you want to save your appearance. Get back to me when you have your solution. Like I said you are trying to stroke your ego. I'll wait. "
You where referring to me. You can't deny that. Be honest I am . I do not need or crave a public persona. You do. It's just a observation otherwise you wouldn't have called me out for your benefit. I am still a bitch . I am not going to change. So why me again? Was it because of my values? Feisty has thiers. They didn't compare to mine . Much respect. Yet I am the example. Intolerance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Its so lovely how some you blame me. Yet all anyone has to do is click a little green arrow next to the profile and see the purpose of that person existing here am I right "Bird". All you want to do is push your agenda. Not be a social person . Just like others. Yet you try and consider me the intolerant one. That's fucking strange. I am more tolerant than you. You judge people on political views. I judge the person. Again tell me I am wrong. You have been drawn and quartered. You need to rethink your approach on people. You are the ipetimay of intolerance. Get over yourself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase
The basic salary for each Member of Parliament for the financial year 2010/11 was £65,738 per annum. 2023 £86,500; almost £21,000 increase. Which is about 30% without using a calculator."
And what percentage is it allowing for inflation? |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase
The basic salary for each Member of Parliament for the financial year 2010/11 was £65,738 per annum. 2023 £86,500; almost £21,000 increase. Which is about 30% without using a calculator.
And what percentage is it allowing for inflation?"
It is also calculated back over 10 years so at best is 3% but of course they get good expenses too. Maybe MP's should strike which would benefit everyone |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase
The basic salary for each Member of Parliament for the financial year 2010/11 was £65,738 per annum. 2023 £86,500; almost £21,000 increase. Which is about 30% without using a calculator.
And what percentage is it allowing for inflation?
It is also calculated back over 10 years so at best is 3% but of course they get good expenses too. Maybe MP's should strike which would benefit everyone "
It includes that disgusting 11% rise one year that caused an uproar. If I'm not mistaken that was the cause of aligning their pay increases with the average of the public sector. So again, I think the government will negotiate a higher settlement with consultants (bearing in mind that they are a much smaller group that others who have striked for "fair pay"). |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact."
I assume “bird” is referring to me? Finding your posts very hard to follow so not really sure what you are going on about. My third point was quite clearly “if the cap fits” as you self identified with the “only I have me back” ethos. I didn’t say whether that was wrong or right, it just is what it is!
Still interested on points 1 and 2 though. Can you find a thread and posts where I have been rude, horrible or disrespectful to you? I may not agree with your views on healthcare and gun ownership but that is about as far as it goes! Robust discussion and challenge is healthy as long as it doesn’t become personal and insulting. Can you show me where I have deviated from that?
Can you find a post where I asked you to not post on a topic? I won’t bother waiting because it isn’t that important. The only person dishing out personal insults is you. I think that is ironic given your point on ego! |
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"Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact.
I assume “bird” is referring to me? Finding your posts very hard to follow so not really sure what you are going on about. My third point was quite clearly “if the cap fits” as you self identified with the “only I have me back” ethos. I didn’t say whether that was wrong or right, it just is what it is!
Still interested on points 1 and 2 though. Can you find a thread and posts where I have been rude, horrible or disrespectful to you? I may not agree with your views on healthcare and gun ownership but that is about as far as it goes! Robust discussion and challenge is healthy as long as it doesn’t become personal and insulting. Can you show me where I have deviated from that?
Can you find a post where I asked you to not post on a topic? I won’t bother waiting because it isn’t that important. The only person dishing out personal insults is you. I think that is ironic given your point on ego!"
I can't remember if it was yourself.
But there was certainly a post where some 1 asked why an American was commenting on uk politics and the NHS.
And where blu brought up an event in the usa related to a topic . They were asked the relevance to the conversation about the uk. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact.
I assume “bird” is referring to me? Finding your posts very hard to follow so not really sure what you are going on about. My third point was quite clearly “if the cap fits” as you self identified with the “only I have me back” ethos. I didn’t say whether that was wrong or right, it just is what it is!
Still interested on points 1 and 2 though. Can you find a thread and posts where I have been rude, horrible or disrespectful to you? I may not agree with your views on healthcare and gun ownership but that is about as far as it goes! Robust discussion and challenge is healthy as long as it doesn’t become personal and insulting. Can you show me where I have deviated from that?
Can you find a post where I asked you to not post on a topic? I won’t bother waiting because it isn’t that important. The only person dishing out personal insults is you. I think that is ironic given your point on ego!
I can't remember if it was yourself.
But there was certainly a post where some 1 asked why an American was commenting on uk politics and the NHS.
And where blu brought up an event in the usa related to a topic . They were asked the relevance to the conversation about the uk."
I recall that too. May have been me but likely could have been many other posters. However, that is demonstrably not the same as asking Blu not to post on a topic. It is clearly a question. So therefore a conversation is it not? |
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"Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact.
I assume “bird” is referring to me? Finding your posts very hard to follow so not really sure what you are going on about. My third point was quite clearly “if the cap fits” as you self identified with the “only I have me back” ethos. I didn’t say whether that was wrong or right, it just is what it is!
Still interested on points 1 and 2 though. Can you find a thread and posts where I have been rude, horrible or disrespectful to you? I may not agree with your views on healthcare and gun ownership but that is about as far as it goes! Robust discussion and challenge is healthy as long as it doesn’t become personal and insulting. Can you show me where I have deviated from that?
Can you find a post where I asked you to not post on a topic? I won’t bother waiting because it isn’t that important. The only person dishing out personal insults is you. I think that is ironic given your point on ego!
I can't remember if it was yourself.
But there was certainly a post where some 1 asked why an American was commenting on uk politics and the NHS.
And where blu brought up an event in the usa related to a topic . They were asked the relevance to the conversation about the uk.
I recall that too. May have been me but likely could have been many other posters. However, that is demonstrably not the same as asking Blu not to post on a topic. It is clearly a question. So therefore a conversation is it not?"
I can't remember rather topic.
But certainly remember thinking when reading it , it came across as asking " why is an American posting on a UK topic"
Like i say I can't remember who said it. And which topic. But it certainly came across as what blu indicates.
I think it was our discussion on uk water and being taken into public ownership.
Blue mentioned an American story of a public owned usa water.company poisoning thousands and covering it?
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact.
I assume “bird” is referring to me? Finding your posts very hard to follow so not really sure what you are going on about. My third point was quite clearly “if the cap fits” as you self identified with the “only I have me back” ethos. I didn’t say whether that was wrong or right, it just is what it is!
Still interested on points 1 and 2 though. Can you find a thread and posts where I have been rude, horrible or disrespectful to you? I may not agree with your views on healthcare and gun ownership but that is about as far as it goes! Robust discussion and challenge is healthy as long as it doesn’t become personal and insulting. Can you show me where I have deviated from that?
Can you find a post where I asked you to not post on a topic? I won’t bother waiting because it isn’t that important. The only person dishing out personal insults is you. I think that is ironic given your point on ego!
I can't remember if it was yourself.
But there was certainly a post where some 1 asked why an American was commenting on uk politics and the NHS.
And where blu brought up an event in the usa related to a topic . They were asked the relevance to the conversation about the uk.
I recall that too. May have been me but likely could have been many other posters. However, that is demonstrably not the same as asking Blu not to post on a topic. It is clearly a question. So therefore a conversation is it not?
I can't remember rather topic.
But certainly remember thinking when reading it , it came across as asking " why is an American posting on a UK topic"
Like i say I can't remember who said it. And which topic. But it certainly came across as what blu indicates.
I think it was our discussion on uk water and being taken into public ownership.
Blue mentioned an American story of a public owned usa water.company poisoning thousands and covering it?
"
Actually it was me who brought up Flint. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Blame me for your ignorance and intolerant behavior. Classic approach for you. Then try and twist your statement to benefit yourself. Guess what. I am still me you use a social construct version of yourself. "Bird". Fact.
I assume “bird” is referring to me? Finding your posts very hard to follow so not really sure what you are going on about. My third point was quite clearly “if the cap fits” as you self identified with the “only I have me back” ethos. I didn’t say whether that was wrong or right, it just is what it is!
Still interested on points 1 and 2 though. Can you find a thread and posts where I have been rude, horrible or disrespectful to you? I may not agree with your views on healthcare and gun ownership but that is about as far as it goes! Robust discussion and challenge is healthy as long as it doesn’t become personal and insulting. Can you show me where I have deviated from that?
Can you find a post where I asked you to not post on a topic? I won’t bother waiting because it isn’t that important. The only person dishing out personal insults is you. I think that is ironic given your point on ego!
I can't remember if it was yourself.
But there was certainly a post where some 1 asked why an American was commenting on uk politics and the NHS.
And where blu brought up an event in the usa related to a topic . They were asked the relevance to the conversation about the uk.
I recall that too. May have been me but likely could have been many other posters. However, that is demonstrably not the same as asking Blu not to post on a topic. It is clearly a question. So therefore a conversation is it not?
I can't remember rather topic.
But certainly remember thinking when reading it , it came across as asking " why is an American posting on a UK topic"
Like i say I can't remember who said it. And which topic. But it certainly came across as what blu indicates.
I think it was our discussion on uk water and being taken into public ownership.
Blue mentioned an American story of a public owned usa water.company poisoning thousands and covering it?
Actually it was me who brought up Flint."
Way off topic now for this thread but thanks to Morley pointing to water thread...
“"I have plenty of water in my well . Do y'all need some? FFS. You all arguing over water. Do you Brits take a day off for not being stupid? Or is it hereditary?
One word...
FLINT
You might need to add a few more words. The single word "flint" isn't doing it for me.
I'm assuming Flint Town which had a water poisoning issue.
Not quite sure how it relates though. Possibly relates to contamination here in the UK.
** Flint City Flint Michigan. 8 year ago.
Still ongoing though. my well isn't in flint now is it ?
We are totally aware of your “only me and mine matter” approach to life. Why are you so bothered by what us Brits want to discuss anyway?
You are right I shouldn't care. Just like you shouldn't care about what is happening here. Crack on.
Bye bye “
So Blu drops into a thread about UK Water companies. Insults all Brits (the first quoted paragraph) but when asked why she is so bothered about what us Brits want to discuss anyway, gets the hump and a couple weeks later goes on the attack!
Seems rationale  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands. "
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them "
I can't agree more
The responsibility level is unmatched really. If you want good standards you have to pay that. |
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""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them "
Everyone does not have the right to strike.
You can think they should, that doesn't mean they can. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
I can't agree more
The responsibility level is unmatched really. If you want good standards you have to pay that."
Exactly, I don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand
They're in charge of people's LIVES ffs |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
Everyone does not have the right to strike.
You can think they should, that doesn't mean they can. "
Why? I mean in the context of doctors, yes they can as they are/have been |
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""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
Everyone does not have the right to strike.
You can think they should, that doesn't mean they can.
Why? I mean in the context of doctors, yes they can as they are/have been "
What do you mean why?
The poster says everyone has the right to strike, that's not true. |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
I can't agree more
The responsibility level is unmatched really. If you want good standards you have to pay that.
Exactly, I don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand
They're in charge of people's LIVES ffs"
Easy to forget about them, barely any 'youngsters' die this day and age, hospitals are full of old people that nobody but occasionally they have family who cares about them. It's no travesty to see 70+ yo die for most. When services get cut back and it becomes noticeable people want them, that or blaming the brown people for taking up all their beds... coming over here in their droves when they never paid any tax! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
I can't agree more
The responsibility level is unmatched really. If you want good standards you have to pay that.
Exactly, I don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand
They're in charge of people's LIVES ffs
Easy to forget about them, barely any 'youngsters' die this day and age, hospitals are full of old people that nobody but occasionally they have family who cares about them. It's no travesty to see 70+ yo die for most. When services get cut back and it becomes noticeable people want them, that or blaming the brown people for taking up all their beds... coming over here in their droves when they never paid any tax!"
Unavoidable deaths are always sad regardless how old the person in
But these things aren't happening directly to the people who making the decisions about the NHS so they don't care
Nursing vacancies are nearly at 50000 for the UK, the government couldn't careless |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them "
You would think that when responsibilities rise so do wages. Not necessarily. A doctor can prescribe a medication that if, for example the patient is known to be allergic to, the administering nurse would be the one in trouble. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
I can't agree more
The responsibility level is unmatched really. If you want good standards you have to pay that.
Exactly, I don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand
They're in charge of people's LIVES ffs
Easy to forget about them, barely any 'youngsters' die this day and age, hospitals are full of old people that nobody but occasionally they have family who cares about them. It's no travesty to see 70+ yo die for most. When services get cut back and it becomes noticeable people want them, that or blaming the brown people for taking up all their beds... coming over here in their droves when they never paid any tax!
Unavoidable deaths are always sad regardless how old the person in
But these things aren't happening directly to the people who making the decisions about the NHS so they don't care
Nursing vacancies are nearly at 50000 for the UK, the government couldn't careless"
That's why, unlike Scotland, they won't legislate for safe staffing. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase
The basic salary for each Member of Parliament for the financial year 2010/11 was £65,738 per annum. 2023 £86,500; almost £21,000 increase. Which is about 30% without using a calculator.
And what percentage is it allowing for inflation?
It is also calculated back over 10 years so at best is 3% but of course they get good expenses too. Maybe MP's should strike which would benefit everyone
It includes that disgusting 11% rise one year that caused an uproar. If I'm not mistaken that was the cause of aligning their pay increases with the average of the public sector. So again, I think the government will negotiate a higher settlement with consultants (bearing in mind that they are a much smaller group that others who have striked for "fair pay")."
If it includes one year at 11% that does not change the amount over the 10 years. It means one year with a high rise but also makes the average over the remaining 9 years even lower. |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
""undervalued and overworked".6% offered in line with independent recommendations.
£93,500 - £126,000 and good pensions (remember the recent upgrade they got?)
Greed during the cost of living crisis?
According to changes in NHS staff pay the real terms changes in average annual wages 2010 - 2023 nurses have lost 14.5%, doctors (f1-2) 15.2-18.9%, consultants 17.2%. So nurses get a 5% rise and doctors 6%. So we have differences of 1% but many thousands.
Everyone has the right to strike
I think if people understood how much responsibility nurses and Dr's have while they're at work they would be a bit more supportive
I used to work in A and E and the consultants as well have having to look after really unwell people also have to be responsible for whole department and have to be aware of nearly every other patient as well as support the junior Dr's
If they feel they deserve a bit more money for that huge responbility then that's upto them
I can't agree more
The responsibility level is unmatched really. If you want good standards you have to pay that.
Exactly, I don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand
They're in charge of people's LIVES ffs
Easy to forget about them, barely any 'youngsters' die this day and age, hospitals are full of old people that nobody but occasionally they have family who cares about them. It's no travesty to see 70+ yo die for most. When services get cut back and it becomes noticeable people want them, that or blaming the brown people for taking up all their beds... coming over here in their droves when they never paid any tax!
Unavoidable deaths are always sad regardless how old the person in
But these things aren't happening directly to the people who making the decisions about the NHS so they don't care
Nursing vacancies are nearly at 50000 for the UK, the government couldn't careless"
It's hypothetical to how I feel people are so selfish about things. I genuinely don't like how angry people are in fighting when it's the pricks at the top causing it. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"One notes that during the time that the pay of teacher lecturers nurses junior doctors & consultants has remained suppressed below inflation .MPs have awarded themselves a 45% pay increase
The basic salary for each Member of Parliament for the financial year 2010/11 was £65,738 per annum. 2023 £86,500; almost £21,000 increase. Which is about 30% without using a calculator.
And what percentage is it allowing for inflation?
It is also calculated back over 10 years so at best is 3% but of course they get good expenses too. Maybe MP's should strike which would benefit everyone
It includes that disgusting 11% rise one year that caused an uproar. If I'm not mistaken that was the cause of aligning their pay increases with the average of the public sector. So again, I think the government will negotiate a higher settlement with consultants (bearing in mind that they are a much smaller group that others who have striked for "fair pay").
If it includes one year at 11% that does not change the amount over the 10 years. It means one year with a high rise but also makes the average over the remaining 9 years even lower."
Obviously the average over the other years were lower. They were then aligned with the average public sector pay increases. |
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The piece that they do not seem to grasp is the huge pension they get, well above all private sectors as the NHS pay 21% towards it. Give them more salary but take away the unaffordable pension scheme. Same across all NHS and many public sector workers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The piece that they do not seem to grasp is the huge pension they get, well above all private sectors as the NHS pay 21% towards it. Give them more salary but take away the unaffordable pension scheme. Same across all NHS and many public sector workers."
The pension is traditionally why some people chose the public sector.
Earn higher wages in the private, or choose Bette conditions in the public - that was traditionally the option. |
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"The piece that they do not seem to grasp is the huge pension they get, well above all private sectors as the NHS pay 21% towards it. Give them more salary but take away the unaffordable pension scheme. Same across all NHS and many public sector workers."
Agreed take the governemnt basic or the nhs to give an alternative prover e.g LG. |
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"I still can't get over that from what is displayed here, a large number of people think doctors, across the board, get paid well
No wonder the country is screwed "
Rishy said his was going to divid us so he can get another few years in power, I see things are heading his way. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"I still can't get over that from what is displayed here, a large number of people think doctors, across the board, get paid well
No wonder the country is screwed "
This particular thread is discussing those in receipt of £90,000+ |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"I still can't get over that from what is displayed here, a large number of people think doctors, across the board, get paid well
No wonder the country is screwed
This particular thread is discussing those in receipt of £90,000+"
To a lot of people that is a lot of money, but you fail to give that context. I regularly see jobs posted to me with that kind of earnings, at similar hourly rate for example. I've not been through half as much training and stress to achieve what a doctor has to.
You can't just state ninety thousand as if that is a wage anyone should be happy with and willing to sell their soul for... because personally I'd want near double, for that kind of responsibility.
All pay is reflective of responsibility and demand, and in my opinion, it's shite pay in the NHS, can understand why so many are leaving the profession cus I wouldn't stand for it, like couldn't get worse right now. Someone mentioned about them being looked after pensions wise, well even then it's not what it used to be, you'll find with a lot of those higher level doctors, the reason they're striking is because of pensions reforms that have fucked them over! And that is reflective in their pay.
People go to work to earn money, that's the simple fact of it, not because they're forced, if they do something they enjoy and rewards their spirit, then good, but that doesn't buy the food shop does it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's not exactly greed when the increase is still below inflation. Prices rarely go down. The only thing that went down for us was SIM only phone contracts.
The next time I see a consultant lining up behind nurses at a food bank, I'll give you a shout."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More fucking nonsense. Doctors earn plenty.
So they shouldn’t have the right to strike?
Over pay. Absolutely fucking not. I assume you're aware of a consultants salary?
That sounds an awful lot like communism that take?
Agreed and surprised by Feisty! So if you earn a lot (because perhaps you are highly skilled and gave had extensive training) you should accept your lot and never even consider complaining?
This first bit is also to the poster above - There is no money in communism
Now for the second bit - when does accepting your lot become enough? Most consultants are earning over 100k/year. Hardly breadline wages. "
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"People go to work to earn money, that's the simple fact of it, not because they're forced, if they do something they enjoy and rewards their spirit, then good, but that doesn't buy the food shop does it."
Exactly right.
And the fact that doctors keep turning up to work shows that the amount of money they're being paid is the right amount. If it wasn't enough, the doctors would find something else to do that paid more money. |
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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"People go to work to earn money, that's the simple fact of it, not because they're forced, if they do something they enjoy and rewards their spirit, then good, but that doesn't buy the food shop does it.
Exactly right.
And the fact that doctors keep turning up to work shows that the amount of money they're being paid is the right amount. If it wasn't enough, the doctors would find something else to do that paid more money."
They're not turning up to work though are they? That's why they're striking |
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"People go to work to earn money, that's the simple fact of it, not because they're forced, if they do something they enjoy and rewards their spirit, then good, but that doesn't buy the food shop does it."
"Exactly right.
And the fact that doctors keep turning up to work shows that the amount of money they're being paid is the right amount. If it wasn't enough, the doctors would find something else to do that paid more money."
"They're not turning up to work though are they? That's why they're striking."
But they aren't leaving are they. They're staying on in their jobs hoping to get a bit more cash out of the government. I'm betting (and it seems the government is too) that they'll eventually accept the 6% and stop whinging. If they really want more money, just leave and go to somewhere that's offering that. |
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By *melie LAL OP Woman
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"I still can't get over that from what is displayed here, a large number of people think doctors, across the board, get paid well
No wonder the country is screwed
This particular thread is discussing those in receipt of £90,000+
To a lot of people that is a lot of money, but you fail to give that context. I regularly see jobs posted to me with that kind of earnings, at similar hourly rate for example. I've not been through half as much training and stress to achieve what a doctor has to.
You can't just state ninety thousand as if that is a wage anyone should be happy with and willing to sell their soul for... because personally I'd want near double, for that kind of responsibility.
All pay is reflective of responsibility and demand, and in my opinion, it's shite pay in the NHS, can understand why so many are leaving the profession cus I wouldn't stand for it, like couldn't get worse right now. Someone mentioned about them being looked after pensions wise, well even then it's not what it used to be, you'll find with a lot of those higher level doctors, the reason they're striking is because of pensions reforms that have fucked them over! And that is reflective in their pay.
People go to work to earn money, that's the simple fact of it, not because they're forced, if they do something they enjoy and rewards their spirit, then good, but that doesn't buy the food shop does it."
Not all pay is reflective of responsibility. Some have a huge patriarchal and historical influence. IE if there was a disparity in 1948 between the stereotypical male job doctor, and the stereotypical female job nurse, that disparity has simply grown through the percentage increases. |
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