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Labour councillors can't deliver so what should a labour govt
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any chance of a decent discussion "
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years. |
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years."
Couldn't agree less |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less"
*****************************************
Me neither....!!
Another 'dream ticket' fantasy soon to be concocted........(?!)
(ooops...! 'Not Only But Also' is on BBC2 just now...... Byyyeee..!! ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less"
Have you looked around in the past 13 years? |
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"Any chance of a decent discussion "
I don't think local councillors are any reflection on how a government of the same party would perform. Not just Labour, that goes across the board.
I think a Labour government would likely be less self serving, less focussed on disaster capitalism for themselves and their pals. Would likely be better on the environment. And hopefully wouldn't torch all the legacy EU laws on workers rights, environmental protections etc that the Tories have in the works.
But ultimately I feel there would be very little difference, probably wouldn't come up with any decent options on how to mitigate against brexit and limit the damage it's doing, or do much in the short or medium term for the economy.
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It's a fair question "could Labour form a competent government"? I'm not sure. On the hand, do the Tories deserve another term? How long to we tolerate in-fighting, croneyism, sleaze, rule-breaking before we boot them out? I'm in the middle ground politically, but feel returning the Tories will just empower them to give us more of the same. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less"
There is literally nothing at all in society that is better or has more value than in 2010. Thirteen years of total incompetence has devastated the NHS, social care, local adult and youth services, homelessness, rough sleeping, housing, schools, the environment, transport, wages, and GDP per capita.
Take a look at what the last Labour Government achieved in its time in office! You will be pleasantly surprised. |
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years."
. I guess you do not use any of the public services otherwise you would not have made those comments .
Last time I checked all public services were still operating and most people are far better off than they were 15 years ago. Education is still provided free of charge and we have sufficient funding to provide an adequate level of service.
What makes anyone think that life could be better under Labour.. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less
There is literally nothing at all in society that is better or has more value than in 2010. Thirteen years of total incompetence has devastated the NHS, social care, local adult and youth services, homelessness, rough sleeping, housing, schools, the environment, transport, wages, and GDP per capita.
Take a look at what the last Labour Government achieved in its time in office! You will be pleasantly surprised."
I’m in agreement in terms of 2010 and society being somewhat poorer in values and demands, putting untold strains on everything owned nationally.
Drugs, social media, entitlement, mental health issues and I could go on.
Govern the increasingly ungovernable with cries of do more and it is a cul de sac |
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less
There is literally nothing at all in society that is better or has more value than in 2010. Thirteen years of total incompetence has devastated the NHS, social care, local adult and youth services, homelessness, rough sleeping, housing, schools, the environment, transport, wages, and GDP per capita.
Take a look at what the last Labour Government achieved in its time in office! You will be pleasantly surprised."
It got voted out because it went stale. Same as the current govt. It's how it goes. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less
There is literally nothing at all in society that is better or has more value than in 2010. Thirteen years of total incompetence has devastated the NHS, social care, local adult and youth services, homelessness, rough sleeping, housing, schools, the environment, transport, wages, and GDP per capita.
Take a look at what the last Labour Government achieved in its time in office! You will be pleasantly surprised.
It got voted out because it went stale. Same as the current govt. It's how it goes. "
This is true but for once I can’t see where the rise in expectations needed will come from.
I really couldn’t careless what party comes into power as long as we get a boost |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.. I guess you do not use any of the public services otherwise you would not have made those comments .
Last time I checked all public services were still operating and most people are far better off than they were 15 years ago. Education is still provided free of charge and we have sufficient funding to provide an adequate level of service.
What makes anyone think that life could be better under Labour.."
As an example, compare rough sleeping now to where it was in 2010. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.. I guess you do not use any of the public services otherwise you would not have made those comments .
Last time I checked all public services were still operating and most people are far better off than they were 15 years ago. Education is still provided free of charge and we have sufficient funding to provide an adequate level of service.
What makes anyone think that life could be better under Labour..
As an example, compare rough sleeping now to where it was in 2010."
Would you agree socially things are very different to 2010?
Take away the government and look at society, it is a different landscape, do you agree? |
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less
There is literally nothing at all in society that is better or has more value than in 2010. Thirteen years of total incompetence has devastated the NHS, social care, local adult and youth services, homelessness, rough sleeping, housing, schools, the environment, transport, wages, and GDP per capita.
Take a look at what the last Labour Government achieved in its time in office! You will be pleasantly surprised.
It got voted out because it went stale. Same as the current govt. It's how it goes.
This is true but for once I can’t see where the rise in expectations needed will come from.
I really couldn’t careless what party comes into power as long as we get a boost"
I agree with this. The government is stale, and the nation as fallen into a torpor with no dynamism. Labour won't be perfect and will screw-up some things, but at least the country will be energised. |
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At some point there will be a switch in power. It looks to be heading that way.
I think Labour will win but only have one term. Before everyone realises they were not the answer.
They are getting away with sitting on the fence and not committing to what they would or wouldn’t do if in power. Every time Keir gets asked if we would back a certain thing or not he backs away from giving an answer.
Labour scare me more. I don’t know where they stand on hardly anything. Keir Starmer comes across so slimy. They don’t seem ready to govern, they are still so divided. What is their immigration ideas/policies? It’s easy to criticise when you don’t explain how you would do it better.
I’m totally middle ground and have voted differently, based on what I thought was best at the time. When Tony Blair first got in there was enthusiasm and hope. Every leader they have had since has been so flawed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.. I guess you do not use any of the public services otherwise you would not have made those comments .
Last time I checked all public services were still operating and most people are far better off than they were 15 years ago. Education is still provided free of charge and we have sufficient funding to provide an adequate level of service.
What makes anyone think that life could be better under Labour..
As an example, compare rough sleeping now to where it was in 2010.
Would you agree socially things are very different to 2010?
Take away the government and look at society, it is a different landscape, do you agree? "
What social changes have occurred to directly increase rough sleeping every year since 2010? And what actions were taken by the govt to arrest this growth? |
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By *9alMan
over a year ago
Bridgend |
I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely "
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither."
Tax justice claim that £570bn in cash is held offshore by British residents. Taxing that would have been bringing in some hefty cash. Personally I don't think being ultra rich is an excuse to avoid paying tax.
How would a "strong work ethic" raise more taxes for the public purse? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.. I guess you do not use any of the public services otherwise you would not have made those comments .
Last time I checked all public services were still operating and most people are far better off than they were 15 years ago. Education is still provided free of charge and we have sufficient funding to provide an adequate level of service.
What makes anyone think that life could be better under Labour.."
Top Tory Trolling again from Pat |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.. I guess you do not use any of the public services otherwise you would not have made those comments .
Last time I checked all public services were still operating and most people are far better off than they were 15 years ago. Education is still provided free of charge and we have sufficient funding to provide an adequate level of service.
What makes anyone think that life could be better under Labour..
As an example, compare rough sleeping now to where it was in 2010.
Would you agree socially things are very different to 2010?
Take away the government and look at society, it is a different landscape, do you agree? "
Late to this discussion but got to say it is IMPOSSIBLE to disaggregate Government from Society. Much of the “tone for society” is driven by govt policy and support/non-support by the media. If you repeatedly tell people to feel a certain way about things over prolonged periods of time, it will eventually influence public perception/views. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither."
ONE thing that needs to be done is change the Corporate Tax regime to ensure companies pay tax in the country where they generate income. At present multi-nationals are able to have corporate structures that sees clearly profitable UK based operations seemingly making a loss. This is due the the “parent” or holding company being registered in a tax haven and charging hefty “royalty/IP charges” to national operations thus they declare a loss and are exempt from paying CT. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Tax justice claim that £570bn in cash is held offshore by British residents. Taxing that would have been bringing in some hefty cash. Personally I don't think being ultra rich is an excuse to avoid paying tax.
How would a "strong work ethic" raise more taxes for the public purse?"
Our handful of 'super rich' will still evade taxes whatever tax laws we change. Yes, unfair, but there its is. Perhaps we should look instead at why they are super rich in the first place?
A strong work ethic means more people in the workforce paying taxes and a lower benefits bill. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Tax justice claim that £570bn in cash is held offshore by British residents. Taxing that would have been bringing in some hefty cash. Personally I don't think being ultra rich is an excuse to avoid paying tax.
How would a "strong work ethic" raise more taxes for the public purse?
Our handful of 'super rich' will still evade taxes whatever tax laws we change. Yes, unfair, but there its is. Perhaps we should look instead at why they are super rich in the first place?
A strong work ethic means more people in the workforce paying taxes and a lower benefits bill. "
Perhaps, but we should make it as difficult as possible for them to avoid paying taxes. We'd collect more.
Work ethic makes sense then. I don't think this would make even a fraction of the tax avoided by the ultra wealthy. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
ONE thing that needs to be done is change the Corporate Tax regime to ensure companies pay tax in the country where they generate income. At present multi-nationals are able to have corporate structures that sees clearly profitable UK based operations seemingly making a loss. This is due the the “parent” or holding company being registered in a tax haven and charging hefty “royalty/IP charges” to national operations thus they declare a loss and are exempt from paying CT."
. You missed the key point in your comments . Companies cannot simply adjust management / royalty charges in order to manipulate profits. You have to have a basis to justify such charges and they are usually checked in detail by HMRC. Your charges would simply be ignored by HMRC if you were unable to justify them . Most people do not work free of charge and a companies head office is no different. Higher prices simply mean that consumers pay more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither."
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K."
You forgot to add "in my opinion" |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K."
Sweden don't rank much lower than us in terms of number of billionaires, and in fact, they have 4x us per capita.
I admire the Scandinavian countries but there is no comparison between them and us. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Any chance of a decent discussion "
I'm not sure it's a fair comparison as they have very different powers. It may provide an indicator I suppose. Closer would be a devolved government like Wales and Scotland. Still not a perfect comparison but a bit closer than councillors in my opinion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
Sweden don't rank much lower than us in terms of number of billionaires, and in fact, they have 4x us per capita.
I admire the Scandinavian countries but there is no comparison between them and us."
You’re right, there’s no comparison. They’re far ahead of of us socially. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion""
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
Sweden don't rank much lower than us in terms of number of billionaires, and in fact, they have 4x us per capita.
I admire the Scandinavian countries but there is no comparison between them and us.
You’re right, there’s no comparison. They’re far ahead of of us socially. "
And miles ahead of us on GDP per capita. We were talking about finance weren't we? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips. "
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
"
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
Sweden don't rank much lower than us in terms of number of billionaires, and in fact, they have 4x us per capita.
I admire the Scandinavian countries but there is no comparison between them and us.
You’re right, there’s no comparison. They’re far ahead of of us socially.
And miles ahead of us on GDP per capita. We were talking about finance weren't we?"
We were talking about a ‘balanced, vibrant economy’ - which is more than finance. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
Sweden don't rank much lower than us in terms of number of billionaires, and in fact, they have 4x us per capita.
I admire the Scandinavian countries but there is no comparison between them and us.
You’re right, there’s no comparison. They’re far ahead of of us socially.
And miles ahead of us on GDP per capita. We were talking about finance weren't we?
We were talking about a ‘balanced, vibrant economy’ - which is more than finance."
You mentioned Swedenin response to being told taxing the rich was a pipedream.
Tax is finance, as I said I admire the Scandanavians but comparing the UKs finance to Swedens finance isn't a good comparison.
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes."
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault "
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
ONE thing that needs to be done is change the Corporate Tax regime to ensure companies pay tax in the country where they generate income. At present multi-nationals are able to have corporate structures that sees clearly profitable UK based operations seemingly making a loss. This is due the the “parent” or holding company being registered in a tax haven and charging hefty “royalty/IP charges” to national operations thus they declare a loss and are exempt from paying CT.. You missed the key point in your comments . Companies cannot simply adjust management / royalty charges in order to manipulate profits. You have to have a basis to justify such charges and they are usually checked in detail by HMRC. Your charges would simply be ignored by HMRC if you were unable to justify them . Most people do not work free of charge and a companies head office is no different. Higher prices simply mean that consumers pay more. "
Not quite sure what you are trying to say? What does your point on people do not work for free even meant to mean in this context? However, I can assure you that corporate structures can most certainly be established in precisely the way I described to reduce Corporation Tax. A relatively recent high profile example of this was Starbucks. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in. "
Especially the people who voted for the current government. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government. "
Why particularly those that voted in the majority? Isn’t the duty of the government to be in touch with the majority?
If that government proves to be inept then we vote in another based on the needs of the majority?
What’s not right, you and the majority have different views?
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government. "
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I always said this while I hate Tories with a passion, I fear a Labour Government even more. I'll probably consider emigrating abroad if they were to be in power"
Why do you fear Labour more? What is it that makes you come to that conclusion? |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Why particularly those that voted in the majority?
"
Minority of people voted for the current government. But why them, because they voted for these self serving narcissists.
"
Isn’t the duty of the government to be in touch with the majority?
"
Exactly, when was the last time the government was even vaguely in touch with the majority of people in this country?
"
If that government proves to be inept then we vote in another based on the needs of the majority?
"
Well clearly that's not working. The Tories keep getting voted in over and over.
"
What’s not right, you and the majority have different views?
"
I don't understand this question. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings."
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings.
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed."
Opposition is a key part of our democracy. imo Labour betrayed that principle under Corbyn when they were unelectable. Many lifelong Labour voters seemed to agree. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings.
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed.
Opposition is a key part of our democracy. imo Labour betrayed that principle under Corbyn when they were unelectable. Many lifelong Labour voters seemed to agree."
Labour surged under Corbyn. The establishment got scared that someone offering change could possibly get into power and destroyed him with an epic multi faceted propaganda campaign.
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings.
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed.
Opposition is a key part of our democracy. imo Labour betrayed that principle under Corbyn when they were unelectable. Many lifelong Labour voters seemed to agree."
. ,,,,, Can not dispute the fact that Labour suffered a heavy defeat in 2019 under Corbyn's leadership , a fact that even the new Labour leader appears to enjoy mentioning , what doesn't get mentioned too often (hardly ever) is that Corbyn's Labour in 2019 got more votes than Millibands Labour in 2015, more votes than Browns Labour in 2010 and more votes than Blair's Labour the last time that Labour actually won a General Election |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings.
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed.
Opposition is a key part of our democracy. imo Labour betrayed that principle under Corbyn when they were unelectable. Many lifelong Labour voters seemed to agree.
Labour surged under Corbyn. The establishment got scared that someone offering change could possibly get into power and destroyed him with an epic multi faceted propaganda campaign.
"
It was the electorate that got scared not the establishment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings.
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed.
Opposition is a key part of our democracy. imo Labour betrayed that principle under Corbyn when they were unelectable. Many lifelong Labour voters seemed to agree.
Labour surged under Corbyn. The establishment got scared that someone offering change could possibly get into power and destroyed him with an epic multi faceted propaganda campaign.
It was the electorate that got scared not the establishment. "
And yet not in 2017… |
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I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him."
Good job you don’t vote for him then, unless you happen to be one of his constituents. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him."
SKS is far from ideal, but he is better than alternative, btw, as you are talking about not being able to answer questions, have you seen Sunak recently  |
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"Any chance of a decent discussion
Local councils are largely theatre amd not much else. Officers tell the council what the options are and they weight how they present them to make it seem like there is only one option. The party in power then sells it and the opposition moan.
A Labour government is the only option if we want public services restored to the heights of 2008. The tories ideological austerity has crippled a generation and wrecked chances for young people and families for 13 years.
Couldn't agree less"
Any chance of a decent rebuttal? |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Sweden does alright, and they have a smaller number of super wealthy individuals than the U.K. Finland, Denmark as well. Incidentally all 3 of those nations rank higher than the U.K. on the world happiness report.
In order to create a string work ethic, we need to make people feel valued in the workplace, to provide opportunities for people to better themselves, to close the wealth divide between the shop floor and the CEO.
We have it all backwards in the U.K.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
It’s not ‘opinion’ to suggest that making people more valued in the workplace will improve their work ethic. In fact there’s plenty of evidence to back it up, right at your fingertips.
We have it all backward in the UK, is certainly in your opinion.
It is my opinion, based upon the direction of travel in the past 13 years (and more broadly the past 43 years), yes.
Is it all the governments fault or is our society too that is equally at fault
You can't blame the government for everything. We have a collective responsibility for the society we live in.
Especially the people who voted for the current government.
Well to be fair voters were faced with Corbyn and a front bench of clowns as an alternative. That's part of the problem we have now - for too long Labour have failed to present a credible opposition. It's handed Tories unchallenged power with all that brings.
The opposite of voting Tory is - not voting Tory.
Not sure why one of the opposition parties are to be blamed.
Opposition is a key part of our democracy. imo Labour betrayed that principle under Corbyn when they were unelectable. Many lifelong Labour voters seemed to agree.
Labour surged under Corbyn. The establishment got scared that someone offering change could possibly get into power and destroyed him with an epic multi faceted propaganda campaign.
It was the electorate that got scared not the establishment. "
The electorate were scared by the vast campaign against Corbyn undertaken by the establishment. If you're interested, medialens wrote a very interesting article about it. |
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"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him."
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else. |
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"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him."
"This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else."
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception. |
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"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else.
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception."
.
He does know, he was backed into a corner during an interview and didn't want to say something offensive.
Not great, but hardly the worst thing.
All politicians avoid answering questions. Some dodgy fella hid in a fridge to avoid answering questions and the electorate seemed to think he was a good choice as leader.
I don't believe he would make a good leader, but there are real things to criticise him over instead of this nonsense. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else.
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception."
do you know what his answer was? Without googling. |
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"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him."
"This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else."
"I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception."
"do you know what his answer was? Without googling."
No.
My understanding is that he's been asked this question several times by journalists hoping to score points, and has avoided the question on each occasion. I'm happy to be corrected.
But my point was that it's not a foolish question, and his refusal to give a clear answer can indeed tell you something about his character. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else.
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception.do you know what his answer was? Without googling. "
No google needed… I have a built in instinct that deals with this question and I thought we all had this, surely we must or we wouldn’t be here?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else.
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception.
do you know what his answer was? Without googling.
No.
My understanding is that he's been asked this question several times by journalists hoping to score points, and has avoided the question on each occasion. I'm happy to be corrected.
But my point was that it's not a foolish question, and his refusal to give a clear answer can indeed tell you something about his character."
"A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom."
You may not agree with his answer but it's a clear answer.
Then later
"For the vast majority of women biology is what matters and it's very clear they don't have a penis.
"But there is a small minority of individuals who are born in a gender they don't now identify with.
"Some go through a process, others don't, and that is very traumatic for them and I, for one, respect and support them.
"[For] 99.99% of women it's all biology, we must support their safe spaces, but let's not disparage or fail to support the small group of people who struggle with their gender identity and I think we can resolve this if we all approach it in that spirit."
Again. Not skirting I would say. Although again you may disagree with his views.
The whole "he doesn't know" and "avoids answering" appears to be one of those things that is become truth simply because it's repeated. One may argue he "doesn't know" because they see his answer as being wrong... But Im not sure Boris or Rishi have been asked to define a women to show they "know" any better than starmer. |
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"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else."
Where you think I get my news from? Have you seen his interviews |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else.
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception.
do you know what his answer was? Without googling.
No.
My understanding is that he's been asked this question several times by journalists hoping to score points, and has avoided the question on each occasion. I'm happy to be corrected.
But my point was that it's not a foolish question, and his refusal to give a clear answer can indeed tell you something about his character.
"A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom."
You may not agree with his answer but it's a clear answer.
Then later
"For the vast majority of women biology is what matters and it's very clear they don't have a penis.
"But there is a small minority of individuals who are born in a gender they don't now identify with.
"Some go through a process, others don't, and that is very traumatic for them and I, for one, respect and support them.
"[For] 99.99% of women it's all biology, we must support their safe spaces, but let's not disparage or fail to support the small group of people who struggle with their gender identity and I think we can resolve this if we all approach it in that spirit."
Again. Not skirting I would say. Although again you may disagree with his views.
The whole "he doesn't know" and "avoids answering" appears to be one of those things that is become truth simply because it's repeated. One may argue he "doesn't know" because they see his answer as being wrong... But Im not sure Boris or Rishi have been asked to define a women to show they "know" any better than starmer. "
The very fact you need to waffle so long to say I don’t want to offend anyone and covered my bases is evident.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just dont see Keir Starmer as PM material and he seems to be indecisive on things or goes along with a topic thats popular on Twitter. Also he cant or has trouble answering a simple question about what is a man and what is a woman. That right there is a red flag for me not to vote for him.
This "can't decide about a man or woman" is an indicator of where you get your news from. Nothing else.
I disagree. Leaders are meant to lead. If he really doesn't know what a woman is, that tells me that he's indecisive. If, as I suspect, he has his own views but is avoiding the issue because he doesn't want to offend any potential voters, that suggests that he's desperate for every vote, which again doesn't put him in a good light.
The refusal to answer any question should make us wonder about a politician, and this question is no exception.
do you know what his answer was? Without googling.
No.
My understanding is that he's been asked this question several times by journalists hoping to score points, and has avoided the question on each occasion. I'm happy to be corrected.
But my point was that it's not a foolish question, and his refusal to give a clear answer can indeed tell you something about his character.
"A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom."
You may not agree with his answer but it's a clear answer.
Then later
"For the vast majority of women biology is what matters and it's very clear they don't have a penis.
"But there is a small minority of individuals who are born in a gender they don't now identify with.
"Some go through a process, others don't, and that is very traumatic for them and I, for one, respect and support them.
"[For] 99.99% of women it's all biology, we must support their safe spaces, but let's not disparage or fail to support the small group of people who struggle with their gender identity and I think we can resolve this if we all approach it in that spirit."
Again. Not skirting I would say. Although again you may disagree with his views.
The whole "he doesn't know" and "avoids answering" appears to be one of those things that is become truth simply because it's repeated. One may argue he "doesn't know" because they see his answer as being wrong... But Im not sure Boris or Rishi have been asked to define a women to show they "know" any better than starmer.
The very fact you need to waffle so long to say I don’t want to offend anyone and covered my bases is evident.
"
you agree he didn't refuse to answer then ? Or are you seeing waffle as a refusal ?
Either which way, at least you have an idea of what he said. You can dismiss him with knowledge now. |
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""A woman is a female adult ..."
Now that you've posted his words, I remember hearing them at the time and thinking "what a crap answer", that just pushes the definition over to the word 'female'. The interview should have immediately asked "so how do you define a female".
I'm sure that some people believe that he answered that question, but to me he just swerved it. |
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"All politicians cant answer straight forward questions some are worse then others"
The electorate seem to be into that. They voted for a serial liar who hid in a fridge to be our leader. Maybe avoiding questions and bullshitting people will get Starmer elected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""A woman is a female adult ...
Now that you've posted his words, I remember hearing them at the time and thinking "what a crap answer", that just pushes the definition over to the word 'female'. The interview should have immediately asked "so how do you define a female".
I'm sure that some people believe that he answered that question, but to me he just swerved it."
I'm more interested in whether he was right about whether the law defines a women the same way as he did. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
""A woman is a female adult ...
Now that you've posted his words, I remember hearing them at the time and thinking "what a crap answer", that just pushes the definition over to the word 'female'. The interview should have immediately asked "so how do you define a female".
I'm sure that some people believe that he answered that question, but to me he just swerved it.I'm more interested in whether he was right about whether the law defines a women the same way as he did. "
I like the way you are laying this out, can you point me to the legal definition of a woman? |
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"But Im not sure Boris or Rishi have been asked to define a women to show they "know" any better than starmer."
Rishi has been asked repeatedly, because he used "at least I know what a woman is" to taunt SKS at PMQs. I just went to Google to find out what his replies were, and it seems that he used the same "adult human female" definition. |
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"I'm more interested in whether he was right about whether the law defines a women the same way as he did."
We don't have a legal definition of a woman (or a female). Until recently there was no need for one as everybody knew what a woman was.
The best we have is what is recorded on the birth certificate, which the law now says can be changed. When SKS says that trans women are women and the law supports that, he's only right for those trans women that have had their birth certificate changed. The law absolutely doesn't support that notion for people that have self-declared and not bothered with the paperwork. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""A woman is a female adult ...
Now that you've posted his words, I remember hearing them at the time and thinking "what a crap answer", that just pushes the definition over to the word 'female'. The interview should have immediately asked "so how do you define a female".
I'm sure that some people believe that he answered that question, but to me he just swerved it.I'm more interested in whether he was right about whether the law defines a women the same way as he did.
I like the way you are laying this out, can you point me to the legal definition of a woman? "
pass. Not a lawyer. It's what sks said. Made me wonder of there was a definition... Coz if there is either MPs have decided it ... Or case law has. |
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"All politicians cant answer straight forward questions some are worse then others
The electorate seem to be into that. They voted for a serial liar who hid in a fridge to be our leader. Maybe avoiding questions and bullshitting people will get Starmer elected."
I dont thats why I dont vote for anyone in the political world |
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"All politicians cant answer straight forward questions some are worse then others
The electorate seem to be into that. They voted for a serial liar who hid in a fridge to be our leader. Maybe avoiding questions and bullshitting people will get Starmer elected. I dont thats why I dont vote for anyone in the political world"
Fair enough. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"All politicians cant answer straight forward questions some are worse then others
The electorate seem to be into that. They voted for a serial liar who hid in a fridge to be our leader. Maybe avoiding questions and bullshitting people will get Starmer elected. I dont thats why I dont vote for anyone in the political world
Fair enough."
. ;,, if you don't vote you always technically vote for the winner , which is fair enough as long as you are prepared to let others decide for you |
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"All politicians cant answer straight forward questions some are worse then others
The electorate seem to be into that. They voted for a serial liar who hid in a fridge to be our leader. Maybe avoiding questions and bullshitting people will get Starmer elected. I dont thats why I dont vote for anyone in the political world
Fair enough.. ;,, if you don't vote you always technically vote for the winner , which is fair enough as long as you are prepared to let others decide for you "
I always vote. But have only once voted for one of the bigger parties. But I get why people don't want to participate in a system that exists to self sustain and to keep those at the top in power and wealth. |
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Want a decent Government that represents the people?
Scrap first past the post and replace it with Proportional Representation.
Tories and Labour hate the idea as they know it means the end of their dominance over the UK Government.
People point to the Coalition Government as a reason why PR wouldn't work but that is simply not true. That coalition was done under fptp and a naive Lib Dems thought they could influence the Tory Party but also had to abandon some.of their core promises as a result.
Too much of the Politics in the UK is based on conflict. The Government versus the Opposition. It should be about everyone in Parliament working together for the benefit of the UK.
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"Want a decent Government that represents the people?
Scrap first past the post and replace it with Proportional Representation.
Tories and Labour hate the idea as they know it means the end of their dominance over the UK Government.
People point to the Coalition Government as a reason why PR wouldn't work but that is simply not true. That coalition was done under fptp and a naive Lib Dems thought they could influence the Tory Party but also had to abandon some.of their core promises as a result.
Too much of the Politics in the UK is based on conflict. The Government versus the Opposition. It should be about everyone in Parliament working together for the benefit of the UK.
"
Wouldn't you end up with a coalition of fringe parties? Greens, Indys, UKIP etc? Many would be working for their own special interests not the UK. Hard to see that would bring strong government. All the effort would go on striking deals. |
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"Want a decent Government that represents the people?
Scrap first past the post and replace it with Proportional Representation.
Tories and Labour hate the idea as they know it means the end of their dominance over the UK Government.
People point to the Coalition Government as a reason why PR wouldn't work but that is simply not true. That coalition was done under fptp and a naive Lib Dems thought they could influence the Tory Party but also had to abandon some.of their core promises as a result.
Too much of the Politics in the UK is based on conflict. The Government versus the Opposition. It should be about everyone in Parliament working together for the benefit of the UK.
Wouldn't you end up with a coalition of fringe parties? Greens, Indys, UKIP etc? Many would be working for their own special interests not the UK. Hard to see that would bring strong government. All the effort would go on striking deals."
You would get a parliament that better represents the country. Those deals would therefore only be possible if enough of the MP's agreed.
You are not going to have a Government where UKIP and a Remain party form a Government as they are fundamentally opposed.
You would have a parliament where the smaller parties votes are important and carry influence but the larger parties would still carry the most weight.
Tories and Labour will become much smaller and you would see parties like the Lib Dems, Greens and UKIP (or whatever they are called today) growing in numbers.
Parliament does also need clearing up. Fair to much sleeve, fingers in various pies and incompetentence in there currently. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Want a decent Government that represents the people?
Scrap first past the post and replace it with Proportional Representation.
Tories and Labour hate the idea as they know it means the end of their dominance over the UK Government.
People point to the Coalition Government as a reason why PR wouldn't work but that is simply not true. That coalition was done under fptp and a naive Lib Dems thought they could influence the Tory Party but also had to abandon some.of their core promises as a result.
Too much of the Politics in the UK is based on conflict. The Government versus the Opposition. It should be about everyone in Parliament working together for the benefit of the UK.
Wouldn't you end up with a coalition of fringe parties? Greens, Indys, UKIP etc? Many would be working for their own special interests not the UK. Hard to see that would bring strong government. All the effort would go on striking deals."
Much of Europe, indeed the world uses a form of PR.
Where’s FPTP in Europe belongs to us, and the mighty democracy of Belarus. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties. |
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties."
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy? |
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?"
I think he's saying, we would never have had the referendum in the first place. |
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?"
I think he's saying that the referendum would never have happened if we'd have had PR. |
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?
I think he's saying, we would never have had the referendum in the first place."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?"
I’m not using it to argue that PR is good (although having UKIP MP’s would have been far more representative, would it not?)
I’m just pointing out the unbalanced power that FPTP can create. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?
I think he's saying that the referendum would never have happened if we'd have had PR."
Yep. It likely wouldn’t.
And since referendums on un negotiated changes are the worst idea in the world, I guess I am arguing that PR would have been better. Yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?
I’m not using it to argue that PR is good (although having UKIP MP’s would have been far more representative, would it not?)
I’m just pointing out the unbalanced power that FPTP can create."
I'd say the question of whether this was an important issue would have come out of PR. As it was, the choice to have referendum came from a party who didn't hold a majority of the popular vote.
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?
I think he's saying that the referendum would never have happened if we'd have had PR."
Well Ok if PR had avoided EU membership festering into a national obsession then fair enough. In that case a referendum wouldn't have been necessary. But if those same issues were there, I don't see denying a national referendum is a good recommendation for PR. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?
I think he's saying that the referendum would never have happened if we'd have had PR.
Well Ok if PR had avoided EU membership festering into a national obsession then fair enough. In that case a referendum wouldn't have been necessary. But if those same issues were there, I don't see denying a national referendum is a good recommendation for PR."
The EU wasn’t a national obsession until after the referendum. There’s a very good section early in the book ‘Britain alone: From Suez to Brexit’ - the EU was cited as ‘important’ by only around 10% of the electorate as late as 2014. |
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"It’s arguable that if we had PR, we’d not have left the EU. We’d have had UKIP representatives in parliament, meaning the internecine Tory war wouldn’t have taken place. Even if a referendum had been postured, the minority eurosceptic tories and hard left would have course have voted with the UKIP MP’s - but they’d have been outnumbered easily by the pro-EU MP’s from all parties.
But that's hardly an argument in favour of PR is it? You're saying an issue decided on a national vote wouldn't have happened under PR. How is that democracy?
I think he's saying that the referendum would never have happened if we'd have had PR.
Well Ok if PR had avoided EU membership festering into a national obsession then fair enough. In that case a referendum wouldn't have been necessary. But if those same issues were there, I don't see denying a national referendum is a good recommendation for PR."
The issues were mostly made up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Here’s a piece outline how important the EU was to the electorate before and after the referendum:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753420.amp
It was a tool intended to kill off the eurosceptics in Cameron’s party. Nothing to do with public demand. |
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"Here’s a piece outline how important the EU was to the electorate before and after the referendum:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753420.amp
It was a tool intended to kill off the eurosceptics in Cameron’s party. Nothing to do with public demand. "
We keep hearing it was a tool for the conservatives.
Having read that report I can tell you, the EU was high on the agenda in the late 90s (Tony Blair) before dropping, the pledge of a referendum was all the main parties although Labour dropped it in 2010.
To say the EU only became an issue after the event is not quite a true representation of the facts. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here’s a piece outline how important the EU was to the electorate before and after the referendum:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753420.amp
It was a tool intended to kill off the eurosceptics in Cameron’s party. Nothing to do with public demand.
We keep hearing it was a tool for the conservatives.
Having read that report I can tell you, the EU was high on the agenda in the late 90s (Tony Blair) before dropping, the pledge of a referendum was all the main parties although Labour dropped it in 2010.
To say the EU only became an issue after the event is not quite a true representation of the facts. "
Amongst the public, data reveals that it was essentially a non-issue right up until the referendum was announced - in 2010, only 1% of the public considered the EU to be a significant issue.
The power and speed of propaganda is immense. |
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"Here’s a piece outline how important the EU was to the electorate before and after the referendum:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753420.amp
It was a tool intended to kill off the eurosceptics in Cameron’s party. Nothing to do with public demand.
We keep hearing it was a tool for the conservatives.
Having read that report I can tell you, the EU was high on the agenda in the late 90s (Tony Blair) before dropping, the pledge of a referendum was all the main parties although Labour dropped it in 2010.
To say the EU only became an issue after the event is not quite a true representation of the facts.
Amongst the public, data reveals that it was essentially a non-issue right up until the referendum was announced - in 2010, only 1% of the public considered the EU to be a significant issue.
The power and speed of propaganda is immense."
It stood at around 40% in the late 90s. Then it decreased and increased again.
The report says that wider 'immigration was a higher priority for the public, that very well could've been EU migrants included. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here’s a piece outline how important the EU was to the electorate before and after the referendum:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753420.amp
It was a tool intended to kill off the eurosceptics in Cameron’s party. Nothing to do with public demand.
We keep hearing it was a tool for the conservatives.
Having read that report I can tell you, the EU was high on the agenda in the late 90s (Tony Blair) before dropping, the pledge of a referendum was all the main parties although Labour dropped it in 2010.
To say the EU only became an issue after the event is not quite a true representation of the facts.
Amongst the public, data reveals that it was essentially a non-issue right up until the referendum was announced - in 2010, only 1% of the public considered the EU to be a significant issue.
The power and speed of propaganda is immense.
It stood at around 40% in the late 90s. Then it decreased and increased again.
The report says that wider 'immigration was a higher priority for the public, that very well could've been EU migrants included."
Which would have been another case of misrepresentation (highly likely) since we’ve always taken more non-EU migration than EU (and EU migrants were a net boost)
The whole saga is a sad tale. I recommend the Suez to Brexit Book, it’s a very good read. |
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"Here’s a piece outline how important the EU was to the electorate before and after the referendum:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753420.amp
It was a tool intended to kill off the eurosceptics in Cameron’s party. Nothing to do with public demand.
We keep hearing it was a tool for the conservatives.
Having read that report I can tell you, the EU was high on the agenda in the late 90s (Tony Blair) before dropping, the pledge of a referendum was all the main parties although Labour dropped it in 2010.
To say the EU only became an issue after the event is not quite a true representation of the facts.
Amongst the public, data reveals that it was essentially a non-issue right up until the referendum was announced - in 2010, only 1% of the public considered the EU to be a significant issue.
The power and speed of propaganda is immense.
It stood at around 40% in the late 90s. Then it decreased and increased again.
The report says that wider 'immigration was a higher priority for the public, that very well could've been EU migrants included.
Which would have been another case of misrepresentation (highly likely) since we’ve always taken more non-EU migration than EU (and EU migrants were a net boost)
The whole saga is a sad tale. I recommend the Suez to Brexit Book, it’s a very good read."
But you're happy to misrepresent when it suits  |
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When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year"
You see tradespeople on public transport every day of the week. |
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"When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year
You see tradespeople on public transport every day of the week. "
I'm talking about electricians, painters and decorators, not finance traders lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year
You see tradespeople on public transport every day of the week. I'm talking about electricians, painters and decorators, not finance traders lol"
Maybe you need to get up earlier. Plenty of tradespeople on public transport, as I said. |
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"When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year
You see tradespeople on public transport every day of the week. I'm talking about electricians, painters and decorators, not finance traders lol
Maybe you need to get up earlier. Plenty of tradespeople on public transport, as I said. "
Most of my friends and family are tradesmen, never have I ever known any of them to use public transport, quite a few have relied on workmates though.
Great if you have a decent network in tour area, can leave your tools on site and can get materials delivered, not so great if these don't add up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year
You see tradespeople on public transport every day of the week. I'm talking about electricians, painters and decorators, not finance traders lol
Maybe you need to get up earlier. Plenty of tradespeople on public transport, as I said.
Most of my friends and family are tradesmen, never have I ever known any of them to use public transport, quite a few have relied on workmates though.
Great if you have a decent network in tour area, can leave your tools on site and can get materials delivered, not so great if these don't add up. "
Aye, it depends on the area, but tons of tradespeople live in the south east and commute into London on public transport, the pre-rush hour is almost exclusively those. |
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"When you have someone like Labour MP David Lammy telling you trades people can travel on public transport, you got to wonder what planet do they live on? How is it physically possible for trades people with their tool kits and ladders to travel on public transport. Just glad I won't be voting next year
You see tradespeople on public transport every day of the week. I'm talking about electricians, painters and decorators, not finance traders lol
Maybe you need to get up earlier. Plenty of tradespeople on public transport, as I said.
Most of my friends and family are tradesmen, never have I ever known any of them to use public transport, quite a few have relied on workmates though.
Great if you have a decent network in tour area, can leave your tools on site and can get materials delivered, not so great if these don't add up.
Aye, it depends on the area, but tons of tradespeople live in the south east and commute into London on public transport, the pre-rush hour is almost exclusively those. "
London may be, as I said, not so easy for others. I'd still doubt they can just carry their array of tools on the tube though |
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Some trades people may be able to use public transport.I can and do when working on a static site where the site has most of the tools needed for the job.
But if out and about on mobile duties there is no way I can use it.Everything I need or could need just about fits in the back of an estate car.And the real kicker is you cannot take a ladder on public transport. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Tax justice claim that £570bn in cash is held offshore by British residents. Taxing that would have been bringing in some hefty cash. Personally I don't think being ultra rich is an excuse to avoid paying tax.
How would a "strong work ethic" raise more taxes for the public purse?"
. All of the money to which you refer is taxed on a remittance basis. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Tax justice claim that £570bn in cash is held offshore by British residents. Taxing that would have been bringing in some hefty cash. Personally I don't think being ultra rich is an excuse to avoid paying tax.
How would a "strong work ethic" raise more taxes for the public purse?. All of the money to which you refer is taxed on a remittance basis. "
Please explain in layperson terms Pat? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would welcome a change in Government in this country. Its long overdue and to be honest I cant see any reason why Labour could do worse than the current incumbents. |
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"I am a Labor councilor on a small town council, we do are best but only have limited powers. the borough council, Welsh assembly & Westminster have the real power. I hope any labor government is bold enough to be radical about taxing the rich & spending the money wisely
Taxing the rich is a socialist pipe dream. It wouldn't raise anywhere near enough to make a scrap of difference. We just don't have enough super-rich. The way to prosperity is a balanced, vibrant economy and a strong work ethic across all the population. We have neither.
Tax justice claim that £570bn in cash is held offshore by British residents. Taxing that would have been bringing in some hefty cash. Personally I don't think being ultra rich is an excuse to avoid paying tax.
How would a "strong work ethic" raise more taxes for the public purse?. All of the money to which you refer is taxed on a remittance basis.
Please explain in layperson terms Pat?"
. I am certain you understand how taxation on a remittance basis works . You have already said on these forums that you sold a few very successfull start up businesses so I would be rather surprised if you did not have a full understanding of the taxation system.
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected. |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected. "
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected? |
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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago
newark |
"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?"
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash. |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash."
If they're not paying taxes anyway, why would we give a fuck if they leave?
If only there was some large group of countries that we could be a member of that was collectively closing tax loopholes to stop this happening.  |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash.
If they're not paying taxes anyway, why would we give a fuck if they leave?
If only there was some large group of countries that we could be a member of that was collectively closing tax loopholes to stop this happening. "
Non-Doms still pay tax on UK income.
Personally I'm in favour of paying tax in the country any profit is generated, worldwide.
This would mean the likes of eBay, Amazon, Starbucks, Air BNB etc would then be paying vastly larger amounts of tax to the UK.
Non-Doms aren't where the money is, it's the multi Nationals we need to target. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash.
If they're not paying taxes anyway, why would we give a fuck if they leave?
If only there was some large group of countries that we could be a member of that was collectively closing tax loopholes to stop this happening.
Non-Doms still pay tax on UK income.
Personally I'm in favour of paying tax in the country any profit is generated, worldwide.
This would mean the likes of eBay, Amazon, Starbucks, Air BNB etc would then be paying vastly larger amounts of tax to the UK.
Non-Doms aren't where the money is, it's the multi Nationals we need to target."
I see no reason not to do both. |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash.
If they're not paying taxes anyway, why would we give a fuck if they leave?
If only there was some large group of countries that we could be a member of that was collectively closing tax loopholes to stop this happening.
Non-Doms still pay tax on UK income.
Personally I'm in favour of paying tax in the country any profit is generated, worldwide.
This would mean the likes of eBay, Amazon, Starbucks, Air BNB etc would then be paying vastly larger amounts of tax to the UK.
Non-Doms aren't where the money is, it's the multi Nationals we need to target.
I see no reason not to do both. "
Non-Doms already pay tax on UK earnings. |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash.
If they're not paying taxes anyway, why would we give a fuck if they leave?
If only there was some large group of countries that we could be a member of that was collectively closing tax loopholes to stop this happening.
Non-Doms still pay tax on UK income.
Personally I'm in favour of paying tax in the country any profit is generated, worldwide.
This would mean the likes of eBay, Amazon, Starbucks, Air BNB etc would then be paying vastly larger amounts of tax to the UK.
Non-Doms aren't where the money is, it's the multi Nationals we need to target."
As much as it pains you when I say this. But I agree with you. |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?
The rich can move as many countries give passports out if you have a ton of cash.
If they're not paying taxes anyway, why would we give a fuck if they leave?
If only there was some large group of countries that we could be a member of that was collectively closing tax loopholes to stop this happening.
Non-Doms still pay tax on UK income.
Personally I'm in favour of paying tax in the country any profit is generated, worldwide.
This would mean the likes of eBay, Amazon, Starbucks, Air BNB etc would then be paying vastly larger amounts of tax to the UK.
Non-Doms aren't where the money is, it's the multi Nationals we need to target.
As much as it pains you when I say this. But I agree with you."
It really doesn't. I'm happy when we can agree on things |
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"
Any attempt to penalise non doms would simply result in less taxation being collected.
By "penalise" do you mean 'close the loopholes and collect tax from them'?
And if so, how would that result in less tax being collected?"
Non doms pay a £30,000 annual fee and avoid paying a reported annual £3.2bn tax
For perspective interest on the national debt (which tories have trebled) is £9bn a month
Add brexit which has reportedly cost the treasury £40bn a year, which is why the last budget introduced the highest tax rises since 1956. |
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Another thing why I cant trust Labour is because I live in a Labour run Borough where they claim they've frozen my council tax for this year when in actual fact they actually increased it from last year. |
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"Another thing why I cant trust Labour is because I live in a Labour run Borough where they claim they've frozen my council tax for this year when in actual fact they actually increased it from last year. "
You don't trust Labour because a clerical error happened to you from your local tax office?
|
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"Another thing why I cant trust Labour is because I live in a Labour run Borough where they claim they've frozen my council tax for this year when in actual fact they actually increased it from last year.
You don't trust Labour because a clerical error happened to you from your local tax office?
"
Feel free to explain if I'm wrong but I dont think the local tax office have anything to do with council tax. |
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"Another thing why I cant trust Labour is because I live in a Labour run Borough where they claim they've frozen my council tax for this year when in actual fact they actually increased it from last year.
You don't trust Labour because a clerical error happened to you from your local tax office?
Feel free to explain if I'm wrong but I dont think the local tax office have anything to do with council tax."
Whomever is in charge of this lads council tax. He made it sound like he didn't trust Labour because of a clerical error. Although has since posted that this may not have been the case.
I'm interested in the link between council tax changing and a lack of trust in Labour.
Could be a whole bunch of reasons it changed. |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost "
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"No its gone up. I was paying just over £900 last year, this year its roughly £1200 so how is that frozen?"
Clearly the entire bill is not frozen going by your figures. It might be that one element is frozen but the others are not. A couple of years ago mine was allegedly frozen but it was the main bit to the council only that got frozen. The parish council and police sections went up quite a bit |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place."
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that. |
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"My point is Tories and Labour are no diffrent. They tell me one thing and do something opposite from what they said they were or were not gonna do but lets digress"
In general I agree.
But in your example. The Tories implemented a tax levy that was nothing to do with your local labour council. |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax"
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work? |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?"
Nope |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?
Nope"
Yet you try to mock the guy for misunderstanding how it works?
His council tax bill comes from a Labour Council. He would therefore assume that everything to do with that bill is imposed by said Labour council.
Can you say with absolute certainty that his local council didn't impose this charge? |
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"My point is Tories and Labour are no diffrent. They tell me one thing and do something opposite from what they said they were or were not gonna do but lets digress
In general I agree.
But in your example. The Tories implemented a tax levy that was nothing to do with your local labour council."
No my Labour Council put it up, last year when it was run by the Tories it was actually cut by 1% my council tax |
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"My point is Tories and Labour are no diffrent. They tell me one thing and do something opposite from what they said they were or were not gonna do but lets digress
In general I agree.
But in your example. The Tories implemented a tax levy that was nothing to do with your local labour council. No my Labour Council put it up, last year when it was run by the Tories it was actually cut by 1% my council tax"
The vote for the health and social care levy on 8 September 2021 at 19:14 was voted against by Labour. Not a single labour MP voted for it.
So blaming labour for it seems a bit weird. |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?
Nope
Yet you try to mock the guy for misunderstanding how it works?
His council tax bill comes from a Labour Council. He would therefore assume that everything to do with that bill is imposed by said Labour council.
Can you say with absolute certainty that his local council didn't impose this charge?"
Nope |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?
Nope
Yet you try to mock the guy for misunderstanding how it works?
His council tax bill comes from a Labour Council. He would therefore assume that everything to do with that bill is imposed by said Labour council.
Can you say with absolute certainty that his local council didn't impose this charge?
Nope"
What exactly is your point then?
He's pissed that it appears his Labour Council said they'd freeze his bill yet his bill has increased, significantly it seems.
You don't actually know it wasn't a Labour decision to impose said increase but are trying to tell him it wasn't.
Sounds like your just mocking him for the sake of it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?
Nope
Yet you try to mock the guy for misunderstanding how it works?
His council tax bill comes from a Labour Council. He would therefore assume that everything to do with that bill is imposed by said Labour council.
Can you say with absolute certainty that his local council didn't impose this charge?
Nope
What exactly is your point then?
He's pissed that it appears his Labour Council said they'd freeze his bill yet his bill has increased, significantly it seems.
You don't actually know it wasn't a Labour decision to impose said increase but are trying to tell him it wasn't.
Sounds like your just mocking him for the sake of it."
The Tories voted for the Social Care Levy. He's blaming Labour for it, even though they voted against it.
Case closed. Still feel free to carry on having a crack at me. |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?
Nope
Yet you try to mock the guy for misunderstanding how it works?
His council tax bill comes from a Labour Council. He would therefore assume that everything to do with that bill is imposed by said Labour council.
Can you say with absolute certainty that his local council didn't impose this charge?
Nope
What exactly is your point then?
He's pissed that it appears his Labour Council said they'd freeze his bill yet his bill has increased, significantly it seems.
You don't actually know it wasn't a Labour decision to impose said increase but are trying to tell him it wasn't.
Sounds like your just mocking him for the sake of it.
The Tories voted for the Social Care Levy. He's blaming Labour for it, even though they voted against it.
Case closed. Still feel free to carry on having a crack at me."
"The government has allowed councils which provide social care to adults to increase their share of Council Tax. This additional Council Tax charge is called the adult social care precept."
Tell me you understand how this works... |
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"Its nothing to do with a clerical error. Its gone up because they sneakly put up the Social Care Levy after they said they freezing all local authority cost
Ah, so not council tax. Got you.
So what's this got to do with your view of Labour? Seeing as it was the conservative government that put this in place.
Are you being serious?
The council tax precept is on your council tax bill.
His local government is Labour.
So yes, an increase imposed by a Labour Governement.
He didn't make it sound like anything other than that.
He said it's not council tax
The social care precept is part of your council tax, so yes, it was his council tax.
Do you fully understand how the different aspects of council tax work?
Nope
Yet you try to mock the guy for misunderstanding how it works?
His council tax bill comes from a Labour Council. He would therefore assume that everything to do with that bill is imposed by said Labour council.
Can you say with absolute certainty that his local council didn't impose this charge?
Nope
What exactly is your point then?
He's pissed that it appears his Labour Council said they'd freeze his bill yet his bill has increased, significantly it seems.
You don't actually know it wasn't a Labour decision to impose said increase but are trying to tell him it wasn't.
Sounds like your just mocking him for the sake of it.
The Tories voted for the Social Care Levy. He's blaming Labour for it, even though they voted against it.
Case closed. Still feel free to carry on having a crack at me."
Just to add, the Levy you're speaking about was for an increase in NI. Not Local Government. Which has now been scrapped anyway. |
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|
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"My point is Tories and Labour are no diffrent. They tell me one thing and do something opposite from what they said they were or were not gonna do but lets digress
In general I agree.
But in your example. The Tories implemented a tax levy that was nothing to do with your local labour council. No my Labour Council put it up, last year when it was run by the Tories it was actually cut by 1% my council tax
The vote for the health and social care levy on 8 September 2021 at 19:14 was voted against by Labour. Not a single labour MP voted for it.
So blaming labour for it seems a bit weird."
It might not be the one you list as this was reversed and scrapped. This makes it a bit more confusing if it appears on the persons bill. Maybe it was later reinstated (though can't see any evidence so far) or it may be a policy local to this guys council area but just using a similar name. |
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"My point is Tories and Labour are no diffrent. They tell me one thing and do something opposite from what they said they were or were not gonna do but lets digress
In general I agree.
But in your example. The Tories implemented a tax levy that was nothing to do with your local labour council. No my Labour Council put it up, last year when it was run by the Tories it was actually cut by 1% my council tax
The vote for the health and social care levy on 8 September 2021 at 19:14 was voted against by Labour. Not a single labour MP voted for it.
So blaming labour for it seems a bit weird."
You're talking about the health and social care levy which was basically NI rise which the Tories scrapped last year by the way, Im talking about Adult Social care which is council based |
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"My point is Tories and Labour are no diffrent. They tell me one thing and do something opposite from what they said they were or were not gonna do but lets digress
In general I agree.
But in your example. The Tories implemented a tax levy that was nothing to do with your local labour council. No my Labour Council put it up, last year when it was run by the Tories it was actually cut by 1% my council tax
The vote for the health and social care levy on 8 September 2021 at 19:14 was voted against by Labour. Not a single labour MP voted for it.
So blaming labour for it seems a bit weird. You're talking about the health and social care levy which was basically NI rise which the Tories scrapped last year by the way, Im talking about Adult Social care which is council based"
Fair enough. |
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