FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The tory party
The tory party
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
I think they will drag it as far as they can. There is so many final nails in this particular coffin it's amazing. What happens to the party after is quite important too. If it disintegrates then the new government will have no opposition to speak of and that's also a bad thing |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
They're not falling apart too much.
I think an early GE would be pointless we're not far from another anyway.
Nothing will put the nail in the coffin anytime soon, in my opinion. None of the latest Tory failures or scandals have been any worse than they have been before the last few GEs. And it doesn't seem to put people off voting for them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is broken
GE late next year?? No point giving up something you are going to lose earlier than you need to.
Nail was put in coffin the day Johnson sacked Cummings "
Brexit was always going to ultimately cause their downfall - but the illegal proroguing of parliament, lockdown rule breaking, lying, misappropriation of funds etc were all added icing on an increasingly shitty cake. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters. "
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters. "
Pat’s Tory Trolling is just so good that he had to post it twice! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I don't think they are done for, but I sense there are two hot topics ATM
Cost of living.
Boris and general view.
If they really together in a year (and I think they will as they appear to always put down arms in and election year) Boris, and a lot of the smelly culture, will be cast away.
Who knows where we will be iyj cost of living, but Id imagine that a lot of thought is going into policies and any signs of recovery will be out squarely at the door of these. As ever, bad stuff is down to external bad luck. Good stuff is policy. That's the way of any government (hello, no more boom and bust)
One thing I think is being overlooked... The blue wall is made up of keen and fresh Tory MPs. Yes, they came in because of Boris... However many have been working hard to show their value to their local electorate. Some I understand are quite popular despite their rosette. There's a view in some that the previous labour MPs were complacent but the tory MP has made a local difference. Seats may be won on local issues. Especially if there's no big ticket brexit type issue. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters. "
You’re a Tory , Get behind Sunak, he is ten times the PM that Alexander was,  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters. "
tbh I agree with large parts of this. People will think. This won't be an emotional one issue election. Finally we can have proper discussion on stuff that matters and not the trivial stuff we are told to focus on. Be interesting to see who has what policies.
I agree that now is not the time to fight an election. Most would prefer to have a headstart, but don't go shooting off before the final lap. Probably not wise to have the left foot trying to trip the right door (or is that far right foot trying to trip the central right foot)
And Boris (well his team imo) are great at winning elections. Although, he's never had to do it from a place of power. That's different. As he's now got a track record to defend.
The touble with Boris's trivial stuff is it was just so fucking much of them. So much we forget.
Cummings covid trip. Prolonging parliament. Wallpapergate. Covid parties. Lying about covid parties. Lying about lying about covid parties. Covid VIP lane. Parties with Russians. Putting sons of said russians on HoL. Putting a junior member of the team in HoL. Putting people with reputation of sexual inappropriateness into positions of power. Lying about knowing. Throwing other MPs under the bus to protect about lying. BbC appointments.
I have some respect for Boris that he manages to deflect 99pc of all that with his MPs and 100pc with many electorates. He only got taken down when he fucked with MPs themselves. That's an incredible skill no other person has, possibly more so than Trump imo. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"You’re a Tory , Get behind Sunak, he is ten times the PM that Alexander was, "
Ten times very little is still very little.
At least he hides in helicopters rather than fridges, so there's a little more transparency. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
Pat’s Tory Trolling is just so good that he had to post it twice!"
More multiple profile confusion perhaps.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You’re a Tory , Get behind Sunak, he is ten times the PM that Alexander was,
Ten times very little is still very little.
At least he hides in helicopters rather than fridges, so there's a little more transparency."
True, Alexander (and truss) set an extremely low bar and I am not a huge fan of Sunak but he is definitely far far better than his two predecessors |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
No need for early g/e.
One due next year.
I think they've drifted away from conservative policies. Policies that got them elected.
Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
Clearly there was a plan to remove Boris. I assume when Sunak loses the majority for there to be no majority for either part he wills tand down and the tories will elect a leader who would win the next election |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
No need for early g/e.
One due next year.
I think they've drifted away from conservative policies. Policies that got them elected.
Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
Clearly there was a plan to remove Boris. I assume when Sunak loses the majority for there to be no majority for either part he wills tand down and the tories will elect a leader who would win the next election "
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
No need for early g/e.
One due next year.
I think they've drifted away from conservative policies. Policies that got them elected.
Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
Clearly there was a plan to remove Boris. I assume when Sunak loses the majority for there to be no majority for either part he wills tand down and the tories will elect a leader who would win the next election
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean."
Maybe exile or execute them too while we're at it.
Can't have anyone thinking for themselves. Should be shut down before it spreads. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
No need for early g/e.
One due next year.
I think they've drifted away from conservative policies. Policies that got them elected.
Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
Clearly there was a plan to remove Boris. I assume when Sunak loses the majority for there to be no majority for either part he wills tand down and the tories will elect a leader who would win the next election "
they gave it a go.
It's telling that Boris cabinet and junior ministers didnt refkect the leave bias of his party.
How has not clearing out remain MPs played a part in non conservative policies ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
There is zero chance of a general election early….. Turkeys don’t vote for Xmas!
The tories will drag this out as far as they can to distance themselves as much as they can from covid, the recession and boris and his governing |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps."
"‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean."
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?"
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
Figured out how that differs? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps."
"‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean."
"So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?"
"No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically."
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected."
Democratically the will of the people has been respected. That doesn’t prevent anyone from pointing out the failings of such.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected."
The people will fall in line and vote as instructed to. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected."
For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected."
"For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’"
Whereas the opposing vote was slightly less than a quarter of the population. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected.
For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’
Whereas the opposing vote was slightly less than a quarter of the population."
Indeed.
So it never really was ‘the will of the people, was it?’
And nor is any GE or by-election. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected.
For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’ "
Most rational people simply use the votes cast . That is the only measure that people are interested in. If people cannot be bothered to vote we can safely ignore their opinions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected.
For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’ Most rational people simply use the votes cast . That is the only measure that people are interested in. If people cannot be bothered to vote we can safely ignore their opinions. "
Only 7 MPs supported Alex tonight, 7 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected.
For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’ Most rational people simply use the votes cast . That is the only measure that people are interested in. If people cannot be bothered to vote we can safely ignore their opinions.
Only 7 MPs supported Alex tonight, 7 "
. A rational person is hardly going to waste their time voting on a matter as trivial as this . MPs have better and more important things to do with their lives .
Laast time I checked Boris had resigned so the report becomes irrelevant |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A trivial matter for the Prime Minister to lie in the House of Commons and deliberately mislead Parliament ?"
Conservative voters seem proud of being fucked over by their chosen leaders. It's weird. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Doesn't help they didn't clear out the remain mps.
‘Clear out the remain MP’s’
Sounds awfully undemocratic, old bean.
So if we look back at your recent posts, we won't find anything like "we need to get rid of the Tories". You wouldn't want to be undemocratic, would you?
No, I believe we should get rid of the tories at the ballot box, democratically.
I don't recall you phrasing it that way.
But I'm glad that we agree that 'the will of the people' is to be respected.
For accuracy though, it really should be ‘the will of a quarter of the population, seven years ago’ Most rational people simply use the votes cast . That is the only measure that people are interested in. If people cannot be bothered to vote we can safely ignore their opinions.
Only 7 MPs supported Alex tonight, 7 . A rational person is hardly going to waste their time voting on a matter as trivial as this . MPs have better and more important things to do with their lives .
Laast time I checked Boris had resigned so the report becomes irrelevant "
in today's news, the majority of MPs are irrational.
And dont have important things on their lives. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE."
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost. "
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost.
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ? "
Well hello, it didn't take long for someone to read the above and get the wrong end of the stick, as per...
Tell me where there is any mention of denying climate change? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost.
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ?
Well hello, it didn't take long for someone to read the above and get the wrong end of the stick, as per...
Tell me where there is any mention of denying climate change?"
Well hello, is it ok if I wait for the person I was talking to replies? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost.
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ?
Well hello, it didn't take long for someone to read the above and get the wrong end of the stick, as per...
Tell me where there is any mention of denying climate change?
Well hello, is it ok if I wait for the person I was talking to replies? "
Of course, but it would be lovely if you could answer my question while you are waiting |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost.
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ?
Well hello, it didn't take long for someone to read the above and get the wrong end of the stick, as per...
Tell me where there is any mention of denying climate change?
Well hello, is it ok if I wait for the person I was talking to replies?
Of course, but it would be lovely if you could answer my question while you are waiting "
I would prefer to wait, if the poster in question is not anti climate change then I will get back to you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost.
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ?
Well hello, it didn't take long for someone to read the above and get the wrong end of the stick, as per...
Tell me where there is any mention of denying climate change?
Well hello, is it ok if I wait for the person I was talking to replies?
Of course, but it would be lovely if you could answer my question while you are waiting
I would prefer to wait, if the poster in question is not anti climate change then I will get back to you "
Great, because no matter how many times I read what they posted I cant find anything that denies climate change, so rather curious as to where you spotted it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. The good news about a general election is that most people think before they vote . People will suddenly realise that the Labour Party have nothing to offer and the Liberals are irrelevant. It was the Liberal Party which prevented David Cameron from raising the inheritance tax threshold.
It is best to be behind in the polls now and dedicate your resources when it matters which is during an election campaign .
Boris Johnson was a master at wining election campaigns hence the reasons why some of his opponents spent to much time investigating and high lighting completely trivial matters.
I agree. The Tories could break into their supporters homes, smash the place up, shit on their carpet and still count on their vote at the GE.
I’d say the same was true of Labour supporters, at least until it became painfully obvious that the “Islington liberals” had utterly betrayed their working class base and they voted Conservative.
The interesting thing is what will be the effect of the break in tribalism? In the 90’s and early 00’s the tribal link with the Conservatives was broken by UKIP so the 2019 GE was the first time Labour saw a break of their tribal block and they are still undergoing their own left/far left schism that the centre/right in the Conservatives have always suffered form.
The other issue is that there’s little to offer the floating voter this time around as you are looking at what is essentially 2 cheeks of the same arse with high tax and spend polciies and a lunatic obsession with Carbon Net Zero without any real intellectual rigour as to what this means, how to achieve it, and importantly, what it will cost.
Why don’t you vote reform? They are climate change deniers ?
Well hello, it didn't take long for someone to read the above and get the wrong end of the stick, as per...
Tell me where there is any mention of denying climate change?
Well hello, is it ok if I wait for the person I was talking to replies?
Of course, but it would be lovely if you could answer my question while you are waiting
I would prefer to wait, if the poster in question is not anti climate change then I will get back to you
Great, because no matter how many times I read what they posted I cant find anything that denies climate change, so rather curious as to where you spotted it "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No and frankly anyone but Starmer. Captain hindsight does not have a clue. "
‘Anyone but Starmer’ means you’re happy with the status quo.
Which is of course your prerogative, but it’s a bit weird. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ind PaddyMan
over a year ago
South County Dublin |
Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand "
Why do you feel Mourdant would be a safer pair of hands than Sunak?
What are you seeing from the outside? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ind PaddyMan
over a year ago
South County Dublin |
Sunak is always associated with Boris trying to break away. At least Mordaunt stood up in Parliament yesterday.
I don't know enough about her or Sunak, but just gut feeling Mordaunt better choice |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sunak is always associated with Boris trying to break away. At least Mordaunt stood up in Parliament yesterday.
I don't know enough about her or Sunak, but just gut feeling Mordaunt better choice "
Fair enough. Just wondered if you're seeing things in a different light from the outside |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand
Why do you feel Mourdant would be a safer pair of hands than Sunak?
What are you seeing from the outside?"
She’s a woman! Women make better UK Prime Ministers...oh wait  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ind PaddyMan
over a year ago
South County Dublin |
"Sunak is always associated with Boris trying to break away. At least Mordaunt stood up in Parliament yesterday.
I don't know enough about her or Sunak, but just gut feeling Mordaunt better choice
Fair enough. Just wondered if you're seeing things in a different light from the outside"
Boris sold a big lie about EU. Mordaunt might be better for Northern Ireland. Brevity has effected Ireland as well. I'm not Conservative by the way |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand
Why do you feel Mourdant would be a safer pair of hands than Sunak?
What are you seeing from the outside?
She’s a woman! Women make better UK Prime Ministers...oh wait "
From what I know, Thatcher wouldn't have put up with this shit. She would've put them all in the stocks.
May and Truss didn't have a chance. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand
Why do you feel Mourdant would be a safer pair of hands than Sunak?
What are you seeing from the outside?
She’s a woman! Women make better UK Prime Ministers...oh wait
From what I know, Thatcher wouldn't have put up with this shit. She would've put them all in the stocks.
May and Truss didn't have a chance."
Love like or loathe Thatcher, she would have eaten this current Tory shower for breakfast. Johnson wouldn’t have got anywhere near a Ministerial post! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand
Why do you feel Mourdant would be a safer pair of hands than Sunak?
What are you seeing from the outside?
She’s a woman! Women make better UK Prime Ministers...oh wait
From what I know, Thatcher wouldn't have put up with this shit. She would've put them all in the stocks.
May and Truss didn't have a chance.
Love like or loathe Thatcher, she would have eaten this current Tory shower for breakfast. Johnson wouldn’t have got anywhere near a Ministerial post!"
That's what I'm led to believe, I like her for that alone |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ind PaddyMan
over a year ago
South County Dublin |
"Just my view from across the small pond. The Tories should have picked Penny Mordaunt, before Truss and Sunack. Need a safe pair of hands running a country. Boris is a clown, used parliament as if he was in school. Boris majority 80 seats was too big. Democracy needs good government but also good opposition. 10 seat majority is enough, keep them all on their toes. Same here civil and public bodies under funded and no accountability. I would be surprised if UK had general election. Why you left Eu, do not understand
Why do you feel Mourdant would be a safer pair of hands than Sunak?
What are you seeing from the outside?
She’s a woman! Women make better UK Prime Ministers...oh wait
From what I know, Thatcher wouldn't have put up with this shit. She would've put them all in the stocks.
May and Truss didn't have a chance."
Just read up on Mordaunt she has a lot of experience. Think she will be the next Tory leader. Since we are on fab, she is good looking and had good dress since. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Just read up on Mordaunt she has a lot of experience. Think she will be the next Tory leader. Since we are on fab, she is good looking and had good dress since."
No no no. Since we're on Fab, you can say that she has great tits and you'd like to fuck her. You can't say that she's pretty and dresses well, that's creepy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Just read up on Mordaunt she has a lot of experience. Think she will be the next Tory leader. Since we are on fab, she is good looking and had good dress since.
No no no. Since we're on Fab, you can say that she has great tits and you'd like to fuck her. You can't say that she's pretty and dresses well, that's creepy."
I’ve got to say that made me laugh more than it should |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Just read up on Mordaunt she has a lot of experience. Think she will be the next Tory leader. Since we are on fab, she is good looking and had good dress since.
No no no. Since we're on Fab, you can say that she has great tits and you'd like to fuck her. You can't say that she's pretty and dresses well, that's creepy."
So you have no empathy with pervs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Just read up on Mordaunt she has a lot of experience. Think she will be the next Tory leader. Since we are on fab, she is good looking and had good dress since.
No no no. Since we're on Fab, you can say that she has great tits and you'd like to fuck her. You can't say that she's pretty and dresses well, that's creepy.
So you have no empathy with pervs "
You’re all on it tonight |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
The car-crashing started in 2015.
Unfortunately the UK is the car being driven by the Conservative party, although they are now currently passing through the windscreen. Something about not wanting to be held back by seat belts.
An early GE would be nice, but how would that benefit the Tory party? They could only call it if they admitted to having no ideas or a vote of no confidence in their own Government. Not the best start to a campaign.
There is currently such a lack of accountability that many (not all) Tory politicians (and it is Tory politicians) will not step down when caught and investigated and found to have behaved badly.
They aren't going. They have nowhere to go. Even Nadine Dorries resigned and then said she'd hold on a not until she'd got some more information... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Sunak is always associated with Boris trying to break away. At least Mordaunt stood up in Parliament yesterday.
I don't know enough about her or Sunak, but just gut feeling Mordaunt better choice "
Mordaunt kinda had to as leader of the house… and the government couldn’t really vote against the committee set up by the government….
Could most tories be more vocal… sure… I wish more would be, but whilst Johnson is still playing flamethrower in the background you can see why they are all thinking in their own self interests |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
"
. It would be interesting to know why anyone thinks it is falling apart. Thirteen years of rule and a recent 80 seat majority is hardly an indication of failure . The only opinion that matters is the vote that is cast on election day. What anyone thinks before of after election day is irrelevant , the only issue that matters is the vote on the day.
Criticising other parties is hardly a winning campaign tactic. Labour represents in the woke loving liberal Islington elite who look down upon anyone with an opinion that is different to theirs and the Liberals blocked the raising of the inheritance tax threshold in essence penalising the financially responsible.
What matters is votes , not what MPs say in the House of Commons .
As the Conservatives implemented a highly successfull Covid 19 vaccination programme saving many lives , were the world's leading country in supporting Ukraine and finally managed to exit the UK from the EU the parties share of the vote will be substantial in the next election . Anyone voting Conserative is backing a winner. We can simply ignore the opinions of a highly vocal minority .
Boris will live to fight another day . The electorate from all side love him , just look at how desperate some people were to get rid of him . They were afraid of him repeating another highly successfull campaign .
It is probably just as well most people have no interest in politics . They do however recognise success and the electorate will award this at the next election.
Winning elections is about th efficient utilisation of resources. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ind PaddyMan
over a year ago
South County Dublin |
"Just read up on Mordaunt she has a lot of experience. Think she will be the next Tory leader. Since we are on fab, she is good looking and had good dress since.
No no no. Since we're on Fab, you can say that she has great tits and you'd like to fuck her. You can't say that she's pretty and dresses well, that's creepy."
I was trying to be nice and civil, sure she has Irish in her and I was hoping to give some more. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ermbiMan
over a year ago
Ballyshannon |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. It would be interesting to know why anyone thinks it is falling apart. Thirteen years of rule and a recent 80 seat majority is hardly an indication of failure . The only opinion that matters is the vote that is cast on election day. What anyone thinks before of after election day is irrelevant , the only issue that matters is the vote on the day.
Criticising other parties is hardly a winning campaign tactic. Labour represents in the woke loving liberal Islington elite who look down upon anyone with an opinion that is different to theirs and the Liberals blocked the raising of the inheritance tax threshold in essence penalising the financially responsible.
What matters is votes , not what MPs say in the House of Commons .
As the Conservatives implemented a highly successfull Covid 19 vaccination programme saving many lives , were the world's leading country in supporting Ukraine and finally managed to exit the UK from the EU the parties share of the vote will be substantial in the next election . Anyone voting Conserative is backing a winner. We can simply ignore the opinions of a highly vocal minority .
Boris will live to fight another day . The electorate from all side love him , just look at how desperate some people were to get rid of him . They were afraid of him repeating another highly successfull campaign .
It is probably just as well most people have no interest in politics . They do however recognise success and the electorate will award this at the next election.
Winning elections is about th efficient utilisation of resources. "
Tory tinted glasses on in this case. Careful what you wish for. Tories have screwed the UK big-time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. It would be interesting to know why anyone thinks it is falling apart. Thirteen years of rule and a recent 80 seat majority is hardly an indication of failure . The only opinion that matters is the vote that is cast on election day. What anyone thinks before of after election day is irrelevant , the only issue that matters is the vote on the day.
Criticising other parties is hardly a winning campaign tactic. Labour represents in the woke loving liberal Islington elite who look down upon anyone with an opinion that is different to theirs and the Liberals blocked the raising of the inheritance tax threshold in essence penalising the financially responsible.
What matters is votes , not what MPs say in the House of Commons .
As the Conservatives implemented a highly successfull Covid 19 vaccination programme saving many lives , were the world's leading country in supporting Ukraine and finally managed to exit the UK from the EU the parties share of the vote will be substantial in the next election . Anyone voting Conserative is backing a winner. We can simply ignore the opinions of a highly vocal minority .
Boris will live to fight another day . The electorate from all side love him , just look at how desperate some people were to get rid of him . They were afraid of him repeating another highly successfull campaign .
It is probably just as well most people have no interest in politics . They do however recognise success and the electorate will award this at the next election.
Winning elections is about th efficient utilisation of resources. "
So you are now backing Sunak ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Is the tory party falling apart
Do you think we need an early G/E
When do you think they will give us one
Boris Party gate going finally going to put a nail in the coffin to them
. It would be interesting to know why anyone thinks it is falling apart. Thirteen years of rule and a recent 80 seat majority is hardly an indication of failure . The only opinion that matters is the vote that is cast on election day. What anyone thinks before of after election day is irrelevant , the only issue that matters is the vote on the day.
Criticising other parties is hardly a winning campaign tactic. Labour represents in the woke loving liberal Islington elite who look down upon anyone with an opinion that is different to theirs and the Liberals blocked the raising of the inheritance tax threshold in essence penalising the financially responsible.
What matters is votes , not what MPs say in the House of Commons .
As the Conservatives implemented a highly successfull Covid 19 vaccination programme saving many lives , were the world's leading country in supporting Ukraine and finally managed to exit the UK from the EU the parties share of the vote will be substantial in the next election . Anyone voting Conserative is backing a winner. We can simply ignore the opinions of a highly vocal minority .
Boris will live to fight another day . The electorate from all side love him , just look at how desperate some people were to get rid of him . They were afraid of him repeating another highly successfull campaign .
It is probably just as well most people have no interest in politics . They do however recognise success and the electorate will award this at the next election.
Winning elections is about th efficient utilisation of resources.
So you are now backing Sunak ? "
I see Pat has stopped saying “award winning covid vaccination programme” after having been asked “what award?” a few times 
I suppose Top Tory Trolling can only extend so far! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term."
I agree. But I can't see anything other than another conservative victory at the next GE. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term.
I agree. But I can't see anything other than another conservative victory at the next GE."
There is no chance the tories will remain in power at the next GE.
I would like to see Sunak call an early GE after the summer break, get it done with and out of the way. He is unlikely to do this, for that reason I would like SKS to grow a pair and threaten a vote of no confidence unless an early GE is called, if it does not happen let's have the vote of no confidence.
From this position SKS can chip away at him, I think Sunak will survive a no confidence vote but it will knock his confidence and if a second one was on the cards for March 24 it may force the GE early. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term.
I agree. But I can't see anything other than another conservative victory at the next GE.
There is no chance the tories will remain in power at the next GE.
I would like to see Sunak call an early GE after the summer break, get it done with and out of the way. He is unlikely to do this, for that reason I would like SKS to grow a pair and threaten a vote of no confidence unless an early GE is called, if it does not happen let's have the vote of no confidence.
From this position SKS can chip away at him, I think Sunak will survive a no confidence vote but it will knock his confidence and if a second one was on the cards for March 24 it may force the GE early."
I'd say there is evidence. The Tories got re-elected in 2015, 2017, 2019. Why not again now?
Personally, I don't have much hope that even if Starmer's Labour got voted in that much would change.
Maybe less corrupt, less self serving. Better energy and environmental policies. But I don't see what they could do for the economy, personal freedoms etc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term.
I agree. But I can't see anything other than another conservative victory at the next GE.
There is no chance the tories will remain in power at the next GE.
I would like to see Sunak call an early GE after the summer break, get it done with and out of the way. He is unlikely to do this, for that reason I would like SKS to grow a pair and threaten a vote of no confidence unless an early GE is called, if it does not happen let's have the vote of no confidence.
From this position SKS can chip away at him, I think Sunak will survive a no confidence vote but it will knock his confidence and if a second one was on the cards for March 24 it may force the GE early.
I'd say there is evidence. The Tories got re-elected in 2015, 2017, 2019. Why not again now?
Personally, I don't have much hope that even if Starmer's Labour got voted in that much would change.
Maybe less corrupt, less self serving. Better energy and environmental policies. But I don't see what they could do for the economy, personal freedoms etc. "
Better energy and environmental policies, less self-serving etc are all good though.
Starmer’s labour aren’t as left as I’d personally like, but I’d welcome them over another Tory term in a heartbeat. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term.
I agree. But I can't see anything other than another conservative victory at the next GE.
There is no chance the tories will remain in power at the next GE.
I would like to see Sunak call an early GE after the summer break, get it done with and out of the way. He is unlikely to do this, for that reason I would like SKS to grow a pair and threaten a vote of no confidence unless an early GE is called, if it does not happen let's have the vote of no confidence.
From this position SKS can chip away at him, I think Sunak will survive a no confidence vote but it will knock his confidence and if a second one was on the cards for March 24 it may force the GE early.
I'd say there is evidence. The Tories got re-elected in 2015, 2017, 2019. Why not again now?
Personally, I don't have much hope that even if Starmer's Labour got voted in that much would change.
Maybe less corrupt, less self serving. Better energy and environmental policies. But I don't see what they could do for the economy, personal freedoms etc. "
The last 2 GE's were a means to an end, its done and it is now time to close down this chapter.
As they say a change is as good as a rest. Labour are screwed as soon as they take over, we all know that, but that is an advantage for them. Public expectations being low on a swift turn around but higher public satisfaction that the tories are no longer in power. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term."
The one point I would agree with is that there is an internal tension in the Conservative party between the centre-right and the centre-left, and always has been, just as there has always been tension between the centre-left and the hard-left in the Labour Party, but that it plays out much more overtly than the left wing tensions in Labour and that ultimately is always what brings down successful Conservative governments.
As far as Brexit was concerned, I think most of us that voted to Leave knew it would take a long time to come to fruition and there would be benefits and disbenefits and that it wouldn’t all go our way. If I knew then what I know now I would still have voted to leave the EU and would to my dying breath.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Decades of Tory in-fighting have cost this country dear. The party has put all it's effort into internal strife and appeasing certain groups. Brexit is the best example of this : Cameron's gamble to silence Eurosceptics seriously backfired. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiters are beginning to realise it was all 'smoke & mirrors' with very little tangible benefit. I have my doubts about Labour, but there's no point in giving the Tories another term.
The one point I would agree with is that there is an internal tension in the Conservative party between the centre-right and the centre-left, and always has been, just as there has always been tension between the centre-left and the hard-left in the Labour Party, but that it plays out much more overtly than the left wing tensions in Labour and that ultimately is always what brings down successful Conservative governments.
As far as Brexit was concerned, I think most of us that voted to Leave knew it would take a long time to come to fruition and there would be benefits and disbenefits and that it wouldn’t all go our way. If I knew then what I know now I would still have voted to leave the EU and would to my dying breath.
"
Hypothetical question - If Brexit continues as it has so far, and there turn out to be no benefits, and only negatives - would you be still happy to have voted for it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hypothetical question - If Brexit continues as it has so far, and there turn out to be no benefits, and only negatives - would you be still happy to have voted for it? "
Yes because I don;t want to be a Vassal State of an invented insitution manipulated by the entrenched national interest of other member states. If what we are talking about is a free trade area, then yes. Everything else that comes with the ambitions of the EU should rightly sit with our sovreign parliament - no matter how broken that process is just now. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Hypothetical question - If Brexit continues as it has so far, and there turn out to be no benefits, and only negatives - would you be still happy to have voted for it?
Yes because I don;t want to be a Vassal State of an invented insitution manipulated by the entrenched national interest of other member states. If what we are talking about is a free trade area, then yes. Everything else that comes with the ambitions of the EU should rightly sit with our sovreign parliament - no matter how broken that process is just now. "
The EU and before it the EEC was never simply about trade though - speeches from MP’s in the late 60’s and early 70’s are available which mention ‘closer union’
And ‘vassal state’ is nonsense. We were always sovereign as an EU member. If close ties with other nations impinge on sovereignty, then I’d argue there are no truly sovereign nations anywhere in the world. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence."
Who are these Pro EU globalists? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence."
No. It’s definitely incompetence. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence."
blimey, those are all words I don't associate with the conservatives.
Although no idea if any are contradictions to conservative ideals other than maybe big government |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists? "
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them. "
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them. "
Sunak was a leaver, was he not? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence."
Amazing. And people claim that fringe elements of the media don't have a significant impact. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave? "
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else. "
Do you watch GB news, out of interest? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else.
Do you watch GB news, out of interest?"
Sometimes, along with Sky and BBC.
Oooohhh…. ISWYDT….You were trying to be subtly insulting by insinuating that people that don;t think we should be in the EU aren’t real human beings capable of rational thought or something…, gotchya and all that.
Sorry to dissapoint about the stereotypes but my world view doesn’t neatly fit into a GBN/Sky box. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else.
Do you watch GB news, out of interest?
Sometimes, along with Sky and BBC.
Oooohhh…. ISWYDT….You were trying to be subtly insulting by insinuating that people that don;t think we should be in the EU aren’t real human beings capable of rational thought or something…, gotchya and all that.
Sorry to dissapoint about the stereotypes but my world view doesn’t neatly fit into a GBN/Sky box. "
The sovereignty argument isn’t rational - we were sovereign as an EU nation, we’re sovereign now. MP’s who take their constituents for granted? Leave voting areas in the north suffered and are suffering worse than the south - those MP’s should have been explaining to their constituents that Brexit wasn’t the answer to their problems - those MP’s should have been explaining to their constituents that their problems were caused by U.K govt, not the EU - an MP’s job is to represent the interests of their constituents, and the broader country - not simply do their bidding.
Which laws were enforced by the EU upon us without input from an elected U.K representative involved?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else. "
Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else.
Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit "
We got a hard Brexit - that meant leaving the single market and customs union.
Soft Brexit meant remaining in one or the other (which is what we should have done) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The sovereignty argument isn’t rational - we were sovereign as an EU nation, we’re sovereign now. MP’s who take their constituents for granted? Leave voting areas in the north suffered and are suffering worse than the south - those MP’s should have been explaining to their constituents that Brexit wasn’t the answer to their problems - those MP’s should have been explaining to their constituents that their problems were caused by U.K govt, not the EU - an MP’s job is to represent the interests of their constituents, and the broader country - not simply do their bidding.
Which laws were enforced by the EU upon us without input from an elected U.K representative involved?
"
Since 1990 there have been a total of 52,741 pieces of primary, seocndary, or tertiary legislation enacted in the UK as a direct result of EU legislation, that amount is simply staggering a significant amount of this was done without any real parliamentary scrutiny.
There are simply masses of standards that are imposed by a variety of directives that were enacted into UK Law by a variety of enabling Acts that never receive scrutiny. At the absurd end are bans on selling bananas that are too curvey/irregular in shape to others that banned halogen light bulbs and the sale of vacuum cleaners over 1500 watts to a whole host of technical standards on things like fire suppression systems fitted to buildings that did nothing to make them any better in terms of their efficacy, but strangely (sic) modelled the older German standards that put a huge re-tooling cost on other countries and for a time made the german systems more cost effective (funny that!).
What I have never understood, and perhaps you can explain this to me because I am genuinely curious, is why those of you who wanted to remain in the EU are so emotionally attached to it and why you are motivated and driven to want to be a part of it?
That goes to the crux of the matter. For numerous politicians I suspect it is because the EU aligns with their world view, it’s a convenient institution to hide behind and ultimately they want to be part of an elite and national politics is a way to stepping into that “club”. For most of the rest of us, we want a direct link between the people we vote for and the laws they enact on our behalf. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else.
Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
We got a hard Brexit - that meant leaving the single market and customs union.
Soft Brexit meant remaining in one or the other (which is what we should have done)"
Sorry, I meant no deal brexit and leave |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else.
Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit "
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Tory party was long ago taken over by fake-conservatives - pro-EU globalists who support big government, the radical green agenda and cultural transformation. This is the real explanation for the current malaise, not incompetence.
Who are these Pro EU globalists?
Hunt and Sunak figure significantly amongst them.
Sunak is Pro EU even though he campaigned to leave?
What he has single handedly failed to do is capitalise on leaving. I don’t believe he has a genuine vision for a UK outside of the EU. The EU is a profoundly undemocratic institution, and what a lot of politicians understand is that it was always a way to avoid accountability because of the way the EU makes quasi-law like Regulations that can and mostly do, usurp domestic law. The “elites” of the EU - it’s polticians, technocrats and civil servants, produced rules and regulation without any reference to national legislature in a way that was always out of the reach of electorates.
What people up and down this country voted for in 2019 was a departure from this. Taking back control was the slogant, but it has never actually happened because the political parties are still dominated by a centrist blob who take their constiuencies for granted. This was a huge shock for Labour but nbeither party really interpreted what this means in reality - that Parliament has to now take ownership of the country’s problems not wait for the EU to dictate what we should do about them.
So did Sunank campaing to leave? Yes. has he withdrawn from the systems of governance within the EU that would allow sovreign accountability? No. Otherwise we would have fully ditched the ECHR and the Convention on Human Rights and put into law our own charter.
What we absolutely need now are serious people in politics who can articulate a post-Brexit framework of governance and independence and what we have are centrist technocrats who are wedded to cosmopolitan ideals - carbon net zero, identity policitcs, avoiding structural reform in areas such as the law, defenbce, foreign policy, the NHS, all of which is a continuation of pre-Brexit “Europeanism”.
Until we get a leader of any party that can see a truely independent Britain and define what that is without falling back into the centrist blob, then we have Leavers in Name Only in politics and Parliament, and I doubt many of them have the stomach, the vision, or the desire to be anything else.
Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St. "
Alexander wasn’t sacked because of cake, |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St. "
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
I agree that the political landscape, society and journalism has took a nose dive post brexit. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
"
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet. "
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?"
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like."
How could you vote on something that hadn't been negotiated. How could you make your mind up?
You do realise that's absurd. I understand you knew what remain looked like but if Brexit hadn't been negotiated then you had no idea what that looked that (by your own words)
That's kinda at odds with, we told you it would look like this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like.
How could you vote on something that hadn't been negotiated. How could you make your mind up?
You do realise that's absurd. I understand you knew what remain looked like but if Brexit hadn't been negotiated then you had no idea what that looked that (by your own words)
That's kinda at odds with, we told you it would look like this."
We warned of what leaving the SM and CU would do to the economy and were shouted down.
That doesn’t change the fact that Brexit hadn’t been negotiated at the time of the vote and could just have easily been EFTA as ‘no deal’ - in June 2016 nobody knew what sort of Brexit would be the result. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like.
How could you vote on something that hadn't been negotiated. How could you make your mind up?
You do realise that's absurd. I understand you knew what remain looked like but if Brexit hadn't been negotiated then you had no idea what that looked that (by your own words)
That's kinda at odds with, we told you it would look like this.
We warned of what leaving the SM and CU would do to the economy and were shouted down.
That doesn’t change the fact that Brexit hadn’t been negotiated at the time of the vote and could just have easily been EFTA as ‘no deal’ - in June 2016 nobody knew what sort of Brexit would be the result."
Oh I agree it hadnt been negotiated.
Imm just confused as now you said we didn't know what Brexit said look like but we told you what it would look like.
You're saying the warnings were for leaving SM and CU but that's definitely not what I remember. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like.
How could you vote on something that hadn't been negotiated. How could you make your mind up?
You do realise that's absurd. I understand you knew what remain looked like but if Brexit hadn't been negotiated then you had no idea what that looked that (by your own words)
That's kinda at odds with, we told you it would look like this.
We warned of what leaving the SM and CU would do to the economy and were shouted down.
That doesn’t change the fact that Brexit hadn’t been negotiated at the time of the vote and could just have easily been EFTA as ‘no deal’ - in June 2016 nobody knew what sort of Brexit would be the result.
Oh I agree it hadnt been negotiated.
Imm just confused as now you said we didn't know what Brexit said look like but we told you what it would look like.
You're saying the warnings were for leaving SM and CU but that's definitely not what I remember."
Then your recollection must differ from mine. Which is probably not that unimaginable.
I had many conversations on social media about why we should push for EFTA after the referendum, because that was the least bad option.
As soon as May’s red lines were set (stupidly), the second referendum movement commenced, slowly at first, but it grew steadily. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like.
How could you vote on something that hadn't been negotiated. How could you make your mind up?
You do realise that's absurd. I understand you knew what remain looked like but if Brexit hadn't been negotiated then you had no idea what that looked that (by your own words)
That's kinda at odds with, we told you it would look like this.
We warned of what leaving the SM and CU would do to the economy and were shouted down.
That doesn’t change the fact that Brexit hadn’t been negotiated at the time of the vote and could just have easily been EFTA as ‘no deal’ - in June 2016 nobody knew what sort of Brexit would be the result.
Oh I agree it hadnt been negotiated.
Imm just confused as now you said we didn't know what Brexit said look like but we told you what it would look like.
You're saying the warnings were for leaving SM and CU but that's definitely not what I remember.
Then your recollection must differ from mine. Which is probably not that unimaginable.
I had many conversations on social media about why we should push for EFTA after the referendum, because that was the least bad option.
As soon as May’s red lines were set (stupidly), the second referendum movement commenced, slowly at first, but it grew steadily. "
Many conversations online amongst remainers? That's great but that wasn't the message passed on.
It's still happening today, you should have a look around. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ditching everything that we have signed up to mutually, will change the trade agreement we have now and make trade with the EU that much harder.
It sounds to me as if you would have championed a hard brexit
Yes, but I would have wanted to champion it with a plan, as opposed to those who championed it without one (like Farage). This is where our political system has let us down, we lack serious people who can take a long term view making those arguments and winning the fight. The net result is we disguise serious politics with sacking one prime minister for being in a room with a piece of cake (ignoring the LOTO in a room full of activists with beer and curry) and Beth Rigby screaming “when are you going to resign Prime Minister” as his replacement walks through the gates of Downing St.
That wasn't the aim of the referendum was it, it was a push for votes in the remain or leave box, a plan after that was never something that was discussed with any clarification.
This was the biggest problem with Brexit. And that’s why you don’t vote on things that haven’t been negotiated yet.
Did you not vote in the EU referendum then?
I voted remain - because we knew what remain looked like.
How could you vote on something that hadn't been negotiated. How could you make your mind up?
You do realise that's absurd. I understand you knew what remain looked like but if Brexit hadn't been negotiated then you had no idea what that looked that (by your own words)
That's kinda at odds with, we told you it would look like this.
We warned of what leaving the SM and CU would do to the economy and were shouted down.
That doesn’t change the fact that Brexit hadn’t been negotiated at the time of the vote and could just have easily been EFTA as ‘no deal’ - in June 2016 nobody knew what sort of Brexit would be the result.
Oh I agree it hadnt been negotiated.
Imm just confused as now you said we didn't know what Brexit said look like but we told you what it would look like.
You're saying the warnings were for leaving SM and CU but that's definitely not what I remember.
Then your recollection must differ from mine. Which is probably not that unimaginable.
I had many conversations on social media about why we should push for EFTA after the referendum, because that was the least bad option.
As soon as May’s red lines were set (stupidly), the second referendum movement commenced, slowly at first, but it grew steadily.
Many conversations online amongst remainers? That's great but that wasn't the message passed on.
It's still happening today, you should have a look around."
No, I engaged with many brexiters on the topic, on a daily basis - the folk on her who like to boast about twitter following weren’t the only ones who had such
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
