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Starmer crisis over Budget response/Sue Gray links /pension hypocrisy
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"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " wait ... Does the working man want pay increases or not ? It seems they want their pay to go up, but noone else's... Imo labour aren't perfect. And the way policies works we will probably lately see "successful and wealthy" people... Although I'm not sure if that's easier people who will do well in politics also do well in life ... Or politocs has a moat around around it. However I don't see anything in what you say the working many is worried about that is solved any better by the Tories. As much people try and throw shit at Starmer. (Eg there seems to be a year between sue greys report being published and her announcing she's going to join labour... But ppl are trying to paint conflict. Starmera pension had no tax relief on the way in so isn't technically a tax play. Although it is generous) As I said on another thread, the last manifesto looked good for the working man. It was rejected because brexit was more important to them. And so they got in bed with the Tories who embrace immigration, create the tax breaks that help only the wealthy, and fail tontacile the housing issues. But apparently SKS is a bigger risk to them than the most right wing government since Thatcher. | |||
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"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... "We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void." Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though  | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " Lolz I didn't know if you were trolling with your posts until now. Fair play, you kept it pretty ambiguous. This was very funny! | |||
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"The syntax has turned increasingly “Pat like” too. Careful, may get accused of plagiarism!" That makes sense. Pat was the champion of trolling Conservative voters. Absolutely savage. | |||
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"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place." Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons?" Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. " my guess would be lower birth rates. | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. " You have manipulated a story to make your point, if you don't know why those numbers are relevant you have nothing. Poor show in my opinion | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. my guess would be lower birth rates. " Why are they lower? | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. my guess would be lower birth rates. Why are they lower?" wouldnt know. Suspect it's many things. | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. my guess would be lower birth rates. Why are they lower?wouldnt know. Suspect it's many things. " Great  | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. You have manipulated a story to make your point, if you don't know why those numbers are relevant you have nothing. Poor show in my opinion " What you on about, what story did I manipulate..? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " You do seem to live in a fantasy world where you make up anecdotes in an attempt to add veracity to your incoherent stories. These people who you claim to know who never discuss politics but give you their detailed political thoughts on the specific topic that you wish to start a thread about, for instance
The Conservative party is certainly not going to help any working man or woman as demonstrated over more than a decade and the recent budget.
That leaves three other significant national parties in the UK, not just the Labour party.
Where has anyone indicated that there should be "unlimited immigration"? That is made up by you.
Where is there an indication of "increased taxes" on workers?
Who is responsible for 30 and 40 year olds living at home? The opposition or the party that has been in power for over a decade?
Kier Starmer, knighted as a senior public servant who pays into a state defined pension which he doesn't define the terms of. What indication is there of him "eying up more wealth" except in your head? His tax returns do not seem to indicate excessive wealth by any means. What do you calculate his income as?
Perhaps mud isn't sticking because you're conspiracies are so fantastical?
I thought that you were going to wait for the ACOBA decision on if Sue Gray can work for the Labour party? Why the early mud-slinging?
The sun-starved lowlands were are in the shadow of over a decade of Conservative party rule. Perhaps the young universally detest the corruption and incompetence that has caused this? Perhaps they are far wiser than you are? | |||
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"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. " Erm I don’t remember “open doors with no limits” except from within the EU which also allowed for unlimited Brits to go and live in Spain and France etc. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. " Smith, Kinnock and Corbyn were never elected to power. If you cannot get elected, you achieve nothing. I guess the Conservative party would probably be delighted at returning to policies if it makes the main opposition harder to elect. | |||
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"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though "75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. Erm I don’t remember “open doors with no limits” except from within the EU which also allowed for unlimited Brits to go and live in Spain and France etc." On the 1st of January 2022, the population of the EU was estimated at over 445 million inhabitants. So that's OK then. Spain and France have considerably more land space than the UK. It's was Labour's ill-thought open door policy towards people from the EU accession countries that ultimately meant UKIP stormed noisily and disruptively into British politics and the Brexit vote happened. Jeremy Corbyn once famously used his speech to the Labour Party Annual Conference to say that he would never seek to reduce immigration. Starmer stood shoulder to shoulder with Corbyn and tried to get him elected as PM twice. Do you understand now the concerns of friends? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. " Are you bored with what I'm saying or on board with me?
I agree with you (I think) that John Smith would have made an excellent PM. Neither Kinnock nor Corbyn would have got near him in stature or ability. If one of your concerns is immigration, see my other post about Corbyn's view on this - it seems from one of your other posts, you are concerned about the lowering of the working man's wages caused by uncontrolled immigration?  | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that. "Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP. | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. " Germany is about 1.5 times bigger than United Kingdom. The UK is around 2.64 times smaller than France. Of course, France and Germany has more space to accept more immigrants. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP."Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'. In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’. At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language. Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that. "You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it! Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. Erm I don’t remember “open doors with no limits” except from within the EU which also allowed for unlimited Brits to go and live in Spain and France etc. On the 1st of January 2022, the population of the EU was estimated at over 445 million inhabitants. So that's OK then. Spain and France have considerably more land space than the UK. It's was Labour's ill-thought open door policy towards people from the EU accession countries that ultimately meant UKIP stormed noisily and disruptively into British politics and the Brexit vote happened. Jeremy Corbyn once famously used his speech to the Labour Party Annual Conference to say that he would never seek to reduce immigration. Starmer stood shoulder to shoulder with Corbyn and tried to get him elected as PM twice. Do you understand now the concerns of friends? " Other than those who were making money from the British immigrants, the c.2million living on the Costas was causing quite some resentment with many Spanish. So it worked both ways. Personally miss some of those amazing Polish builders who worked for a reasonable fee rather than most British builders I have come across (sure it isn’t all) who just rip you off! | |||
There's that smell again .. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'? "No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them. | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. Germany is about 1.5 times bigger than United Kingdom. The UK is around 2.64 times smaller than France. Of course, France and Germany has more space to accept more immigrants. " That wasn't what the point of reply. My point was over a period of 11 years, their population growth was slower than the UK. This despite having a more open policy to migrants. I assume that's what you meant when saying our population would hit 100m soon if Labour came to power. I assume you mean they would relax asylum rules. Even if the population growth of the U.K doubled. It would still take over 30 years to reach 100m. Are you really expecting it to double, just because Labour come to power. What is your evidence for that. | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. Germany is about 1.5 times bigger than United Kingdom. The UK is around 2.64 times smaller than France. Of course, France and Germany has more space to accept more immigrants. That wasn't what the point of reply. My point was over a period of 11 years, their population growth was slower than the UK. This despite having a more open policy to migrants. I assume that's what you meant when saying our population would hit 100m soon if Labour came to power. I assume you mean they would relax asylum rules. Even if the population growth of the U.K doubled. It would still take over 30 years to reach 100m. Are you really expecting it to double, just because Labour come to power. What is your evidence for that." Well there was that poster that Farage and UKIP (or was it the Brexit Party, lost track of which pyramid scheme it was), had showing a huge queue of Turkish people lining up to enter the UK because of imminent Turkish membership of the EU (the people in the poster were actually Syrian and Turkey isn’t joining the EU any time soon). So perhaps that is evidence? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that. "Like everything, if a topic is kept at a high profile people will be "concerned" about it. It doesn't take much work to discover how press coverage affects public opinion on almost any topic, although their have been specific studies on immigration in particular. Also artificially linking immigration with, economic immigration, "illegal" immigration, refugees and those seeking asylum as if they are all the same. There is a cynical manipulation of fear and anger that is difficult to ignore. Especially as this Government has presided over the period that is causing people the most concern. You have plucked some random, unattributed, "facts" to reinforce your opinion, rather like your imaginary friends. You have, unfortunately, proven to not be better than that. This is from Migration Watch which is not exactly neutral: "YouGov Immigration has been too high in the past decade 56% Feb 23 FocalData Immigration is too high 57% Dec 22 Public First Legal immigration is too high 43% Feb/Mar 23 Opinium Immigration is too high 55% Nov 2 BMG Immigration is too high 63% Dec 22 For certain voters, immigration is a far greater concern than others. According to YouGov, 79 per cent of Conservative voters agree that immigration is too high. For Leave voters, the total is even higher at 82 per cent." Personally, I feel that more controlled immigration from the EU when the Eastern European states joined would have avoided many concerns arising. That was a choice that was made over twenty years ago. However, fully controllable non-EU immigration has been in the millions for many years under the current Conservative Government within even the last year. Confusing as to what your position is, as is often the case. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? I can get on bored with a lot of this, who is standing up for working man? Blame starts before Torries when Blair opened doors with no limits and no idea who that is coming in. I wish labour would get back to john smith days, maybe kinnock/corbyn who seemed care more for working people. Erm I don’t remember “open doors with no limits” except from within the EU which also allowed for unlimited Brits to go and live in Spain and France etc. On the 1st of January 2022, the population of the EU was estimated at over 445 million inhabitants. So that's OK then. Spain and France have considerably more land space than the UK. It's was Labour's ill-thought open door policy towards people from the EU accession countries that ultimately meant UKIP stormed noisily and disruptively into British politics and the Brexit vote happened. Jeremy Corbyn once famously used his speech to the Labour Party Annual Conference to say that he would never seek to reduce immigration. Starmer stood shoulder to shoulder with Corbyn and tried to get him elected as PM twice. Do you understand now the concerns of friends? " Jeremy Corbyn on immigration, I'm assuming that you mean the 2916 speech but provided the 2017 for good measure. He is not really saying what you are implying at all, is he? 445 million EU residents never had my intention of all moving to the UK in the same way that 100 million asylum seekers are not all "coming here" despite what Braverman claims. 2016 "It has been shaming to our multicultural society that assaults on migrants have increased sharply since the referendum campaign a campaign that peddled myths and whipped up division. It isn’t migrants that drive down wages, it’s exploitative employers and the politicians who deregulate the labour market and rip up trade union rights. It isn’t migrants who put a strain on our NHS, it only keeps going because of the migrant nurses and doctors who come here filling the gaps left by politicians who have failed to invest in training. It isn’t migrants that have caused a housing crisis; it’s a Tory government that has failed to build homes. Immigration can certainly put extra pressure on services and that’s why, under Gordon Brown, Labour setup the Migrant Impact Fund to provide extra funding to communities that have the largest rises in population. What did the Tories do? They abolished it and then they demonise migrants for putting pressure on services. A Labour government will not offer false promises on immigration as the Tories have done. We will not sow division by fanning the flames of fear. We will tackle the real issues of immigration instead whatever the eventual outcome of the Brexit negotiations and make the changes that are needed. We will act decisively to end the undercutting of workers’ pay and conditions through the exploitation of migrant labour and agency working which would reduce the number of migrant workers in the process. And we will ease the pressure on hard pressed public services - services that are struggling to absorb Tory austerity cuts, in communities absorbing new populations. Labour will reinstate the migrant impact fund, and give extra support to areas of high migration using the visa levy for its intended purpose. And we will add a citizenship application fee levy to boost the fund. That is the Labour way to tackle social tension investment and assistance, not racism and division." 2017 "One that puts our economy first not fake immigration targets that fan the flames of fear. We will never follow the Tories into the gutter of blaming migrants for the ills of society. It isn’t migrants who drive down wages and conditions but the worst bosses in collusion with a Conservative government that never misses a chance to attack trade unions and weaken people’s rights at work. Labour will take action to stop employers driving down pay and conditions not pander to scapegoating or racism. How Britain leaves the European Union is too important to be left to the Conservatives and their internal battles and identity crises." Population density (people per square kilometre): UK 281 Germany 240 France 119 Spain 94 However, that is a straight division of population by area. There are much larger areas of Germany, France and Spain that are unpopulated because it is literally difficult to live on them. Consequently the difference when you look at areas where people actually live, are minimal. That is best seen and understood on a map. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them. "I often voted labour. I am a moron? | |||
"Cheshire, did your 'Labour friends' say over what period they expect the population to hit 100 million? After all it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. In the last 63 years it's grown by 15 million to date and these 'friends' think an extra 33 million is something they need to worry about ..
There's that smell again .. "So what? population of world is about 7 billion. a lot of it in turmoil. Can't all come here? | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. Germany is about 1.5 times bigger than United Kingdom. The UK is around 2.64 times smaller than France. Of course, France and Germany has more space to accept more immigrants. " Great post
| |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron? "Depends, did you vote for them because you don't like foreigners and believe the anti-immigrant propaganda? | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. Germany is about 1.5 times bigger than United Kingdom. The UK is around 2.64 times smaller than France. Of course, France and Germany has more space to accept more immigrants. Great post
"You’re on fab so you should know size isn’t everything | |||
"Cheshire, did your 'Labour friends' say over what period they expect the population to hit 100 million? After all it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. In the last 63 years it's grown by 15 million to date and these 'friends' think an extra 33 million is something they need to worry about ..
There's that smell again ..
So what? population of world is about 7 billion. a lot of it in turmoil. Can't all come here? "So what, what? If that's a question be more specific please? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity "No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same. I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
 | |||
"Surprised your friends didn't take Suella Braverman for her word and go the full billion figure. Don't know why they think the population would surge under Labour. Since 2010 the populations of France and Germany have grown less than the UK. Despite having a much more immigration friendly policies in place. Why has their population not grown, do you know the reasons? Didn't say the population had not grown. They have grown, but slower than the UK. Population growth from2010 to 2021 GERMANY 3.7m FRANCE 2.8m UK 5.4m I don't know the reason. But considering Merkel announced a come here policy to refugees during this period it is surprising. Germany is about 1.5 times bigger than United Kingdom. The UK is around 2.64 times smaller than France. Of course, France and Germany has more space to accept more immigrants. Great post
You’re on fab so you should know size isn’t everything "Yes if immigration is too large, it can be overwhelming and painful. You have to really be ready to deal with something that large  | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron? "Of course you're not | |||
"Cheshire, did your 'Labour friends' say over what period they expect the population to hit 100 million? After all it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. In the last 63 years it's grown by 15 million to date and these 'friends' think an extra 33 million is something they need to worry about ..
There's that smell again ..
So what? population of world is about 7 billion. a lot of it in turmoil. Can't all come here?
So what, what?
If that's a question be more specific please?"So what it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. What is max capacity of UK??? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not "ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be  | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not
ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be "I answered above. To be crystal clear. You have labeled yourself something. I have absolutely not labeled anyone here anything. | |||
"Cheshire, did your 'Labour friends' say over what period they expect the population to hit 100 million? After all it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. In the last 63 years it's grown by 15 million to date and these 'friends' think an extra 33 million is something they need to worry about ..
There's that smell again ..
So what? population of world is about 7 billion. a lot of it in turmoil. Can't all come here?
So what, what?
If that's a question be more specific please?
So what it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc..
What is max capacity of UK??? "How long is a piece of string? Tbh mate it's a pretty daft question .. As is your strange point about 'all come here' given no one is saying they whoever they may be should, would or might come here .. If you look at the number if hob vacancies which are about 1.3 million according to the CBI with the negative impact that such a figure has on the economy maybe that might be a starting point? Or is the long term goal post Brexit to languish behind other G7 economies in some sort of self harm different coloured passports mess? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
"You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not
ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be
I answered above.
To be crystal clear. You have labeled yourself something. I have absolutely not labeled anyone here anything. "Your not being crystal clear. So when I have voted lab in past and an concerned about migration to uk, am I moron? Straight question, straight answer please | |||
"Cheshire, did your 'Labour friends' say over what period they expect the population to hit 100 million? After all it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. In the last 63 years it's grown by 15 million to date and these 'friends' think an extra 33 million is something they need to worry about ..
There's that smell again ..
So what? population of world is about 7 billion. a lot of it in turmoil. Can't all come here?
So what, what?
If that's a question be more specific please?
So what it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc..
What is max capacity of UK???
How long is a piece of string?
Tbh mate it's a pretty daft question ..
As is your strange point about 'all come here' given no one is saying they whoever they may be should, would or might come here ..
If you look at the number if hob vacancies which are about 1.3 million according to the CBI with the negative impact that such a figure has on the economy maybe that might be a starting point?
Or is the long term goal post Brexit to languish behind other G7 economies in some sort of self harm different coloured passports mess?"OK fair if migration for proper jobs not washing cars in every corner and another kebab shop | |||
"Cheshire, did your 'Labour friends' say over what period they expect the population to hit 100 million? After all it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc.. In the last 63 years it's grown by 15 million to date and these 'friends' think an extra 33 million is something they need to worry about ..
There's that smell again ..
So what? population of world is about 7 billion. a lot of it in turmoil. Can't all come here?
So what, what?
If that's a question be more specific please?
So what it's globally accepted that populations will decline over the next 50 years, low birth rates etc..
What is max capacity of UK???
How long is a piece of string?
Tbh mate it's a pretty daft question ..
As is your strange point about 'all come here' given no one is saying they whoever they may be should, would or might come here ..
If you look at the number if hob vacancies which are about 1.3 million according to the CBI with the negative impact that such a figure has on the economy maybe that might be a starting point?
Or is the long term goal post Brexit to languish behind other G7 economies in some sort of self harm different coloured passports mess?
OK fair if migration for proper jobs not washing cars in every corner and another kebab shop "What's wrong with kebabs? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not
ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be
I answered above.
To be crystal clear. You have labeled yourself something. I have absolutely not labeled anyone here anything.
Your not being crystal clear. So when I have voted lab in past and an concerned about migration to uk, am I moron? Straight question, straight answer please "No idea. This question is utterly irrelevant and makes no sense, and has no bearing to any points being made. I have absolutely no clue if you are a moron or not. I'll assume you're not. Let's go back to what I said: "No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them. ". This was in response from some confusion from the other chap.
Everything else, you've made up. Can't help you with that.
| |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence "Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening! Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true. Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?! Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too 
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
| |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not
ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be
I answered above.
To be crystal clear. You have labeled yourself something. I have absolutely not labeled anyone here anything.
Your not being crystal clear. So when I have voted lab in past and an concerned about migration to uk, am I moron? Straight question, straight answer please
No idea. This question is utterly irrelevant and makes no sense, and has no bearing to any points being made. I have absolutely no clue if you are a moron or not. I'll assume you're not.
Let's go back to what I said:
"No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them. ". This was in response from some confusion from the other chap.
Everything else, you've made up. Can't help you with that.
"He didn't make anything up. You inferred he was a moron. You've stepped back a little now in case you're reported, but you were well on the way to the 'R' word which is the default description of anyone who has concerns over excessive immigration and which is intended to silence the concerned person and stop the debate. You would simply prefer every poster on here makes anti-Brexit and/or anti-Tory posts. Therefore, a Labour voter with such concerns is dismissed as swallowing 'propaganda' and moronic for doing so. That's the truth of it, is it not? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
"Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t! | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not
ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be
I answered above.
To be crystal clear. You have labeled yourself something. I have absolutely not labeled anyone here anything.
Your not being crystal clear. So when I have voted lab in past and an concerned about migration to uk, am I moron? Straight question, straight answer please
No idea. This question is utterly irrelevant and makes no sense, and has no bearing to any points being made. I have absolutely no clue if you are a moron or not. I'll assume you're not.
Let's go back to what I said:
"No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them. ". This was in response from some confusion from the other chap.
Everything else, you've made up. Can't help you with that.
He didn't make anything up. You inferred he was a moron.
"I did not infer he was a moron. You've made that up! " You've stepped back a little now in case you're reported, " I'm well aware that people who think brexit is a good idea, the Tories aren't shit, and that foreigners are the problem, are very keen on reporting people. However thank you for letting me know you are one of the those keen on reporting. Good to know. " but you were well on the way to the 'R' word " You've made this up. Try to stick to reality. At no point did I refer to the other poster, other than to reply to these ridiculous accusations and attacks. They tried to label themselves as something, to make it look like I'd done it. It's all here in the thread and plain to see. " which is the default description of anyone who has concerns over excessive immigration and which is intended to silence the concerned person and stop the debate. You would simply prefer every poster on here makes anti-Brexit and/or anti-Tory posts. Therefore, a Labour voter with such concerns is dismissed as swallowing 'propaganda' and moronic for doing so. That's the truth of it, is it not? " This bit is back to comedy trolling and is much funnier. Excellent. | |||
| |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!"Just read that back and I think I need to clarify... People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect. People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they? Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason. | |||
"Jonny, it did feel like you was saying I was moron. But as you have cleared it up, it's all good "No idea why you felt that. It was extremely clear that I did not refer to anyone as a moron. Hopefully we can move on from these ridiculous accusations. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
Of course some Labour supporters get conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's purely Conservative voters. Although they do get more distracted and worked up about it. As per your OP.
Wasn't it David Blunkett who famously asked immigrants to speak English at home? Or Rachel Reeves, now Shadow Chancellor, who used her intervention at a fringe meeting at the Labour Party Annual Conference in Liverpool to say that the tension about immigration could ‘explode into riots'.
In only slightly less inflammatory language, Chuka Umunna attacked the latest wave of immigrants in his constituency for ‘leading parallel lives’.
At that time, the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Labour ministers and opposition parties was so inflammatory that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Rudd Rubbers, requested Labour politicians to tone down their language.
Were these prominent Labour MPs 'conned by the anti-immigrant propaganda'?
No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them.
I often voted labour. I am a moron?
Of course you're not
ok cheers but waiting for glos guy Jonny to answer as he thinks I could be
I answered above.
To be crystal clear. You have labeled yourself something. I have absolutely not labeled anyone here anything.
Your not being crystal clear. So when I have voted lab in past and an concerned about migration to uk, am I moron? Straight question, straight answer please
No idea. This question is utterly irrelevant and makes no sense, and has no bearing to any points being made. I have absolutely no clue if you are a moron or not. I'll assume you're not.
Let's go back to what I said:
"No, they're also using it as a tool to get morons to vote for them. ". This was in response from some confusion from the other chap.
Everything else, you've made up. Can't help you with that.
He didn't make anything up. You inferred he was a moron. You've stepped back a little now in case you're reported, but you were well on the way to the 'R' word which is the default description of anyone who has concerns over excessive immigration and which is intended to silence the concerned person and stop the debate. You would simply prefer every poster on here makes anti-Brexit and/or anti-Tory posts. Therefore, a Labour voter with such concerns is dismissed as swallowing 'propaganda' and moronic for doing so.
That's the truth of it, is it not? "Do you need a bigger paddle Pat? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason."But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
"Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views. However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right? There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK. So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND... The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average! So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis. So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis! Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about! Etc etc ad infinitum! | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum! "Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed! Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " Comedy gold | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold "Have you been poorly? Or on holiday? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break? "A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing. Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold
Have you been poorly? Or on holiday?
"New York | |||
| |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold
Have you been poorly? Or on holiday?
New York "Can you prove that? | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. " Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold
Have you been poorly? Or on holiday?
New York
Can you prove that? "No | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break?
A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing.
Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand. "You should try taking his advice sometime | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold
Have you been poorly? Or on holiday?
New York
Can you prove that?
No "Inadmissible then | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break?
A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing.
Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand.
You should try taking his advice sometime "Another friend told me not to take the first friends advice. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold
Have you been poorly? Or on holiday?
New York
Can you prove that?
No
Inadmissible then "Feel free to denounce simple statements as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break? | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ? "He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Comedy gold
Have you been poorly? Or on holiday?
New York
Can you prove that?
No
Inadmissible then
Feel free to denounce simple statements as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break? "I didn't denounce it in that way I believe you
Still inadmissible under the new site rules | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
"It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? " Can you prove this happened? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break?
A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing.
Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand.
You should try taking his advice sometime
Another friend told me not to take the first friends advice. "Do you just do what the latest friend tells you or do you have a mind of your own? | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Can you prove this happened? " I don't have to | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Can you prove this happened? I don't have to "Inadmissible | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break?
A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing.
Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand.
You should try taking his advice sometime
Another friend told me not to take the first friends advice.
Do you just do what the latest friend tells you or do you have a mind of your own? "I'll get back to you when I've asked my made up friends what they think. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break? "That was a bit touchy! I said anyone posting anecdotes not you specifically! Chill out Cheshire old buddy! As I said fill your boots and post away but it is a simple reality that few people believe anecdotes! You keep bringing up the “rules of the forum” lately with various folks. Previously your go to was implied racism! Starting to feel like ironic cancel culture  | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note "I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break?
A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing.
Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand.
You should try taking his advice sometime
Another friend told me not to take the first friends advice.
Do you just do what the latest friend tells you or do you have a mind of your own?
I'll get back to you when I've asked my made up friends what they think. "What are they 'made up' about? Brexit? A Tory government? You don't mean they're invented do you? That'd be against forum rules surely? My friends are real | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it "Thought you disliked Corbyn and his politics? Surely you should welcome this decision? Seems like a good move to me. Momentum can get behind Corbyn and start a socialist party leaving Labour holding the middle ground. | |||
"As per the other thread on Starmer's poor/robotic response to the '23 budget, people are increasingly noticing that the Leader of the Opposition is not coming to the table with either clean or competent hands. Even though the polls are narrowing, it's clear plenty of ordinary working people feel there's no home for them at the next election and will 'keep clear of Keir through fear' that nothing will change for the better. We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. What is the answer? There's surely no time for another party to form before the next election. The working man awaits lower wages through unlimited immigration, even more taxation (if that were possible) and even more inflation as Labour gives in to union pay demands. There are increasing reports of men and women in parents' back bedrooms at 40 and older, unable to get on the housing ladder. Meanwhile, a knighted lawyer, to whom little seems to stick, luxuriates with special pension arrangements he wants to end for everyone else, eyeing up more wealth inside number 10. It seems a lot of people are preparing for sunstarved lowlands. But young people under 25 seem universally in awe of Starmer - are they just idealistic Lefties who will get wise as they get older? Oh Cheshire you do make me laugh. Great work of fiction. You should consider writing some short stories and work up to a novel! By the way, when you say... We try to avoid political talk socially, but two of our friends who are Labour through and through fear we will head rapidly to a population of 100 million if Labour get in. And they think the Sue Gray links render her report null and void. Who is “we” and “our”? You are on here as a single man aren’t you? Also those two friends do not exist do they? Filing this under “things that did not happen”. Nice read though
75% of the population (including more than half of ethnic minority citizens) have repeatedly told pollsters that immigration is too high with the issue rising to the top of the list of national concerns in recent years. The idea they are all Tory voters is nonsense. Many Labour voters are concerned about it. The idea that I would invent 2 Labour friends with such concerns for the purposes of this forum is laughable. You are so much better than that.
You did make it up though right? A strawman argument/example? Correct? Come on just admit it!
Also who is “we” and “our” as I thought you were a single guy? Only asking in the context of your story as it undermines the veracity
No I didn't make it up. And what business is my dinner companion of yours and how they relate to me being on here? You have been relating some very detailed information on here of late, which I have no idea is true or not. I have accepted it on face value and so I would be obliged if you would do the same.
I'm not sure what you find more incredible. That a Tory could possibly have 2 Labourites as friends, or that I have 2 friends at all
And yes, we did have a little fall out over Brexit at the time, as they are Remainers. However, we decided our friendship was too valuable to jeopardise and try not to talk politics and largely succeed. However, sometimes it will crop up and it did on Saturday in the way described. Is that so unbelievable?
You do know I am winding you up Cheshire don’t you Too easy to throw the bait, line and hook out there and then reel you in!
However, you have to admit, you do like your unprovable anecdotes that are then presented as evidence
Ha ha, of course I do. I also knew you'd love a little wordy protestation for a Monday evening!
Truly, I don't present them as evidence, they're just anecdotes. But they're true.
Of course, when we had our little fallout, they said lots of things that I could present on here which were anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. Assume if I did, you'd be happy those were true and constituted 'evidence'?!
Newsflash: they'd just be anecdotes too
Plus, there's enough anti-Brexit and anti-Tory posts on here as it is
Ah but if YOU posted an anecdote of your “friends” saying anti Tory/Brexit stuff without comment then I would believe it. If some others posted it I wouldn’t!
Just read that back and I think I need to clarify...
People who post unprovable anecdotes as supposed evidence to back up their own argument/position/views are completely spurious and suspect.
People who post unprovable anecdotes that are against their argument/position/views are more believable because...why would they?
Either way, anecdotes are not evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court for good reason.
But we're not in court. So as long as they're not against forum rules, I'll post true anecdotes. You can choose to regard them how you want
Fill your boots Cheshire. Just be assured people won’t believe them as they are simply too convenient as a supposed back up to your views.
However, someone as educated as yourself must surely have explained why their 100 million figure is nonsense right?
There is huge interconnectedness in so many things. Just today the Governor of the Bank of England has (in part) blamed people retiring early in the UK for inflation. The point being we have too many job vacancies supposedly pushing up salaries. The same article (in The Telegraph) does also admit (reluctantly) to the impact on the job market of Brexit and at least 500k workers leaving the UK.
So Brexit = good for some as labour shortage increases salaries (for some) but oh no it is causing inflation (not really, that would be the knock on effect of energy price rises to the supply chain and profiteering by corporations) so we are all actually poorer wiping out any salary increase AND...
The UK has a negative population growth amongst the indigenous population. Brits are having less children on average!
So an increasingly older retired (economically inactive other than as a consumer) population with fewer young people joining the workforce causing labour shortages and a future state pension crisis.
So we could fill the workforce gap with immigrants but nope apparently nobody (according to your friends) wants immigrants. Well...ok some want high skilled immigrants who “benefit our society” but wait a minute...does that mean the high skilled jobs will be filled with immigrants and only low skilled jobs will be filled by Brits? ie low paid jobs! Jobs most Brits do not want to do! And as they are low paid it won’t help the cost of living crisis!
Which is why despite Brexit we now have a situation where the construction industry have successfully lobbied the Govt to allow builders/trades special visa status so we can try and attract back a lot of those lost EU workers “everyone” was moaning about!
Etc etc ad infinitum!
Everyone fills their boots on here. You do. If all we can do is post independently verifiable, evidence-based, scrupulously 100% facts, the site closes tomorrow. I can't remember where, but I've seen profiles for instance with "we are laid back and relaxed" or "never had any complaints" or "I'm an all night repeater" which are just the subjective opinions of the user, hardly impartial. The Lounge is full of subjects just asking for people's opinion. If you had your way, it wouldn't be allowed!
Feel free to denounce simple anecdotes as 'spurious' and 'suspect' but what you are doing is calling me a liar and probably against the forum rules. Perhaps you should take a break?
A guy I know, who voted Lib Dems, said that anecdotal evidence isn't worth a thing.
Another guy I know, who didn't vote, says that baseless accusations against people you disagree on the internet are tiresome and pointless, and that it would be better to try to focus on the points in hand.
You should try taking his advice sometime
Another friend told me not to take the first friends advice.
Do you just do what the latest friend tells you or do you have a mind of your own?
I'll get back to you when I've asked my made up friends what they think.
What are they 'made up' about? Brexit? A Tory government?
You don't mean they're invented do you? That'd be against forum rules surely? My friends are real "No, they understand brexit and are aware of the actions of Tory party. Can you highlight in the rules where it says we aren't allowed to talk about imaginary friends? | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it "SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM) | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
"Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss. Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now. | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now."I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE "An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much! | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!"fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM? | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!"True, however between Sunak and Starmer who would make be the better PM? One or the other | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
True, however between Sunak and Starmer who would make be the better PM? One or the other "not sure. usually vote labour but voted Boris to get brexit done. Rishy seems safe pair of hands but starmer keeps getting in controversial mess like banning cirbyn being the latest. See what the manifesto says nearer the time | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM? "Good point but not great to threw it all away? | |||
| |||
"Remember the rules now… when people come here they are “unwanted immigrants” When British people leave here they are “lovely ex pats who have earned the right to live wherever they want “ P.s how dare you infringe on our rights to and make our lives harder than it was before…. " If you go live in Spain, don't you have to prove your not drain? | |||
"Remember the rules now… when people come here they are “unwanted immigrants” When British people leave here they are “lovely ex pats who have earned the right to live wherever they want “ P.s how dare you infringe on our rights to and make our lives harder than it was before…. If you go live in Spain, don't you have to prove your not drain? " Oh how very dare you | |||
| |||
"Ha ha! It's true. You need 34000 euro annual income, not be criminal and pay for private medicine insurance. Visas, bank statements and all sorts of things needed. Over here, free everything, throw documents in channel and nanny state UK will look after you. Yet some here in lounge think we should still go on like this. Only for desperate, which Spain would do - not all who fancy better life than albania " How dare Spain be so unwelcoming to foreigners simply seeking a better, sunnier life! | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away? "Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said? Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about: A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted. B) Corbyn being unelectable. However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard. | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard. "...and the cull of all competence and compassion within the Conservative party. That is the problem when a party or any organisation is viewed as a homogeneous group. "All" Tories are not the same. "All" politicians are not corrupt and self-serving. "All" people who disagree with them are not "lefties". Labelling is just a lazy excuse to stop thinking. | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard. "In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard.
In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go"Then not one of those people have any right to complain about the shitshow that is the UK because they enabled it to happen! They voted in a corrupt self serving liar to the top office in the land and he then presided over the greatest theft in history transferring £billions in state assets to friends, family and cronies. The amount of money is so vast it could have offset the entire energy crisis and cost of living crisis and funded the NHS shortfall and probably funded public sector pay rises too. | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard.
In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go
Then not one of those people have any right to complain about the shitshow that is the UK because they enabled it to happen! They voted in a corrupt self serving liar to the top office in the land and he then presided over the greatest theft in history transferring £billions in state assets to friends, family and cronies. The amount of money is so vast it could have offset the entire energy crisis and cost of living crisis and funded the NHS shortfall and probably funded public sector pay rises too. "To be clear, I was not saying they were moaning about how he acted. I was saying that despite his record points A and B outweighed it. It's me that won't vote due to him | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard.
In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go
Then not one of those people have any right to complain about the shitshow that is the UK because they enabled it to happen! They voted in a corrupt self serving liar to the top office in the land and he then presided over the greatest theft in history transferring £billions in state assets to friends, family and cronies. The amount of money is so vast it could have offset the entire energy crisis and cost of living crisis and funded the NHS shortfall and probably funded public sector pay rises too.
To be clear, I was not saying they were moaning about how he acted. I was saying that despite his record points A and B outweighed it. It's me that won't vote due to him"I got that but I would be very surprised if they actually are genuinely happy with how things are. Maybe I am wrong and they are happy? | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard.
In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go
Then not one of those people have any right to complain about the shitshow that is the UK because they enabled it to happen! They voted in a corrupt self serving liar to the top office in the land and he then presided over the greatest theft in history transferring £billions in state assets to friends, family and cronies. The amount of money is so vast it could have offset the entire energy crisis and cost of living crisis and funded the NHS shortfall and probably funded public sector pay rises too. "Of course it is. Have you reported this alleged theft to the Metropolitan Police? | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard.
In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go
Then not one of those people have any right to complain about the shitshow that is the UK because they enabled it to happen! They voted in a corrupt self serving liar to the top office in the land and he then presided over the greatest theft in history transferring £billions in state assets to friends, family and cronies. The amount of money is so vast it could have offset the entire energy crisis and cost of living crisis and funded the NHS shortfall and probably funded public sector pay rises too.
To be clear, I was not saying they were moaning about how he acted. I was saying that despite his record points A and B outweighed it. It's me that won't vote due to him
I got that but I would be very surprised if they actually are genuinely happy with how things are. Maybe I am wrong and they are happy?"Most Conservative supporters think things could be better but then we have had a global pandemic and the war in Ukraine. So we are realistic and don't see that Labour would have done any better. In fact, they wanted to lockdown for harder and longer. | |||
"In more controversy, Starmer has proposed a motion that makes it clear the party’s ruling body will not endorse Corbyn as a Labour candidate for the Westminster election expected next year. Momentum are said to be furious. They describe the move as 'venal and duplicitous'. Starmer hitherto described Corbyn as a friend as well as a colleague. How odd to treat his friend like this. Corbyn is finished, SKS has been decisive . Do you remember when Sunak stabbed Boris in the back ?
He's standing as an Independent so far from finished. Yes, he's been decisive, but is it the right decision or is it divisive?
It shows strong leadership, Sunak should take note
I note your opinion that it shows strong leadership. I disagree. Divisive, vindictive, duplicitous and an insult to those who supported Corbyn is the way I choose to see it
SKS is a strong, decisive leader, Sunak should take note, let’s see how he handles Boris (the man he stabbed in the back and got him sacked as PM)
Sunak has already bloodied the nose of the old guard including Johnson, Grove and Truss.
Starmer stood out until Sunak arrived. I think the polls will start to swing back towards the tories, I'm not sure by enough but the tories have their best person in situ now.
I agree, Sunak is a far better PM than both Boris and Truss, unfortunately (for him) they will try to hamper his chances of winning the next GE
An inanimate object would be a better PM than Johnson and Truss so that’s not really saying much!
fair point on truss but Boris won 80 seat majority as PM?
Good point but not great to threw it all away?
Did you just reply to yourself to support what you said?
Anyway, IMO the 80 seat majority was less about Johnson and more about:
A) People sick to death of Brexit and just wanting it sorted.
B) Corbyn being unelectable.
However, this was a classic case of “the law of unintended consequences” as people were so focused on A and/or B that they didn’t stop to think about Johnson himself and his track record as a corrupt lying untrustworthy self serving bastard.
In my own personal experience nearly all those I have spoken to on exactly what you say above tell me they knew full well about Johnson's record but points A and B far outweighed those facts. For me Johnson is what is stopping me voting conservative at the next GE. I acknowledge that this is not fair on Sunak but there you go
Then not one of those people have any right to complain about the shitshow that is the UK because they enabled it to happen! They voted in a corrupt self serving liar to the top office in the land and he then presided over the greatest theft in history transferring £billions in state assets to friends, family and cronies. The amount of money is so vast it could have offset the entire energy crisis and cost of living crisis and funded the NHS shortfall and probably funded public sector pay rises too.
To be clear, I was not saying they were moaning about how he acted. I was saying that despite his record points A and B outweighed it. It's me that won't vote due to him
I got that but I would be very surprised if they actually are genuinely happy with how things are. Maybe I am wrong and they are happy?"They seemed pretty happy to me or at least not complaining about it. It's not always easy to tell if they are being entirely honest but it's all I have to go on and just struck a chord when I read your A and B points | |||
