FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Electric cars
Electric cars
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"I posted on another thread about electric cars. My car manufacturer. ( Honda ). Do not sell diesel or petrol cars in the UK any more. They stopped sometime last year. So how many other car manufacturers will be doing the same before 2023 ?. " Should be stop manufacture before 2030.  | |||
"In theory at least a terraced house has space for one car out front of the house." Try looking at where I live, Gilfach Fargoed in South Wales. The town is made of long terraces, each of which faces directly into the pavement. There's no way anyone in my town will be able to charge their electric car. | |||
"In theory at least a terraced house has space for one car out front of the house. Try looking at where I live, Gilfach Fargoed in South Wales. The town is made of long terraces, each of which faces directly into the pavement. There's no way anyone in my town will be able to charge their electric car." Tokyo style solution solves it then. | |||
"The date is impossible to meet and will just get pushed back. Not enough charging points or the electric infrastructure to meet the demand. Having said that, there us merit in a Tokyo style system where if you don't have an off road parking space for your car you are not allowed to have one. Even in our road, where all houses have driveways for at least 2 cars, some people think it is acceptable to have 4 cars and park 2 on the road. This makes it difficult to get our motorhome out." Not having a car if you live in a terraced house looks like the only real answer. Gone will be the day when families would have two or more cars. This will represent a very big social adjustment for tens of millions of people especially in places where public transport is shit. | |||
"In theory at least a terraced house has space for one car out front of the house. Try looking at where I live, Gilfach Fargoed in South Wales. The town is made of long terraces, each of which faces directly into the pavement. There's no way anyone in my town will be able to charge their electric car." Maybe you will feel persecuted? Could seek asylum in one of the African nations. Pretty sure they’ll have petrol/diesel cars for a while yet. Assuming of course they let you in a do mot immediately deport you to the UK! | |||
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"In theory at least a terraced house has space for one car out front of the house. What about if the house has been divided into flats? These are policies designed by people who live in houses with driveways and garages. Complete lack of understanding of the actual logistics involved." Not if you've got double yellows thereb  | |||
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"Manufacturers need to really push the envelope of self charging technology. As notme says, charging needs to get faster. You can refuel a petrol/diesel car on the forecourt in 5 mins. That ensures a flow of cars through the forecourt. How long does it take to fully charge today’s ecars? ALL car parks will need ALL parking spaces to become charging points." I agree. Range anxiety needs to fall to match fuel anxiety and we're not there yet, even if range anxiety is sometimes unwarranted. Sure, the act of refuelling is faster than charging a battery (even with technology closing the time gap), but the act of filling up at the petrol station is still a chore that can be avoided altogether if you drive an electric car. Instead, you can charge almost anywhere you can park. Petrol stations are investing in fast chargers to facilitate charging along motorways but it's the change in how people view all of the above that needs to be worked on over the next 6 and a half years not to mention the infrastructure and the workarounds for the terraces and high rise blocks. As someone else said, it's really not far away so I suspect it will be pushed back to match the EU at 2035 | |||
"Ford released their all electric car this week. Basic is £40k, with extras £50k. Stating a range of 350 miles." Good example of decent range now. Leaf was 105 miles ten, twelve years ago | |||
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"So, the big question is: Where is all the electricity going to come from? The grid was close to capacity this winter without all the car chargers. Government is incompetent in not mandating a single charger standard with vehicle to grid capability." Never mind where the electricity is going to come from, the present electricity infrastructure in the UK is entirely incapable of handling the increased loads coming from hundreds of thousands of electric cars plugging in to charge at one go. It'd be like you trying to plug in too many appliances and electronic devices at home; sooner or later you're going to throw your circuit breaker. Also, good luck trying to have governments mandate a single charger standard across all electric car manufacturers. Look at how long it took before the EU finally successfully strong-armed Apple to use USB-C on its iPhones so that people could use a single charging cable for either Android or iPhone devices. And even then they're extremely begrudging in doing so. Differentiated charger standards and plugs is a main selling point for various EV manufacturers, because that is the main bottleneck for how fast an EV's batteries can charge up to full capacity. And as we know, one of the main barriers to greater EV adoption by general society remains the notion and reality that it takes hours to charge up a car to have the same range as a petrol-engined car which can be topped off within a minute at a forecourt. | |||
"Most gas from cattle is actually nitrogen which makes up most of the air we breath and is harmless to us." That's just nonsense. Most of the gas a cow breathes out is indeed nitrogen. That's because the atmosphere is 79% nitrogen, so most of the gas a cow breathes in is nitrogen. Given that nitrogen serves no purpose in cows, that gas gets breathed straight back out again. Cows don't produce nitrogen. But cows do produce methane, in non-trivial quantities. | |||
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"Most gas from cattle is actually nitrogen which makes up most of the air we breath and is harmless to us. That's just nonsense. Most of the gas a cow breathes out is indeed nitrogen. That's because the atmosphere is 79% nitrogen, so most of the gas a cow breathes in is nitrogen. Given that nitrogen serves no purpose in cows, that gas gets breathed straight back out again. Cows don't produce nitrogen. But cows do produce methane, in non-trivial quantities." Correct  | |||
"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership?" Not really… you are making the assumption that will be charging up cars more regularly than they fill up petrol… So I did some digging into figures … 42,000 electric car charging points in the uk… 8300 petrol stations, if say each petrol station on average has 10 points… that’s 83,000 petrol points.. Not all cars are going to be there at all times… if you have seen a tesla’s supercharger station space wise you could probably fit in double what you could at a normal service station Certain things will need to be put into place… rapid charging which for most cars will mean 0-80% in 15-20 minutes It’s coming… in the next year to 18 months fords entire European offering will be all electric (9 different models coming in the next 18 months) The biggest thing is going to be some sort of unified charging system…. | |||
"Here is an interesting video from the states on how Tesla with government subsidise are gradually opening up its public supercharger infrastructure to cars of other manufactures. Although it doesn't look like Tesla has thought enough about how their short charging leads would cause such a problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-oaVLRH-js " They are beginning to do it in Europe as well… there are trials going on in the Netherlands at the moment and certain low usage locations in the uk! They will make changes to length of leads… I mean… supermarket forecourts managed to get around the issue of having long enough ones to have petrol caps on both sides!!! | |||
"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership? Not really… you are making the assumption that will be charging up cars more regularly than they fill up petrol… So I did some digging into figures … 42,000 electric car charging points in the uk… 8300 petrol stations, if say each petrol station on average has 10 points… that’s 83,000 petrol points.. Not all cars are going to be there at all times… if you have seen a tesla’s supercharger station space wise you could probably fit in double what you could at a normal service station Certain things will need to be put into place… rapid charging which for most cars will mean 0-80% in 15-20 minutes It’s coming… in the next year to 18 months fords entire European offering will be all electric (9 different models coming in the next 18 months) The biggest thing is going to be some sort of unified charging system…." It might be that the car manufacturers are stepping up to the plate, but i dont get the sense that the infastructure in the country as a whole will have the capability to manage plug-in charging. People who live in terraced houses with terraces both sides often have one side of the road double yellow to maintain reasonable access. This means that people can't guarantee parking outside of their home. It's going to cost £billions and will require years of planning to sort out. It just does not feel like it is happening. | |||
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"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership? Not really… you are making the assumption that will be charging up cars more regularly than they fill up petrol… So I did some digging into figures … 42,000 electric car charging points in the uk… 8300 petrol stations, if say each petrol station on average has 10 points… that’s 83,000 petrol points.. Not all cars are going to be there at all times… if you have seen a tesla’s supercharger station space wise you could probably fit in double what you could at a normal service station Certain things will need to be put into place… rapid charging which for most cars will mean 0-80% in 15-20 minutes It’s coming… in the next year to 18 months fords entire European offering will be all electric (9 different models coming in the next 18 months) The biggest thing is going to be some sort of unified charging system…. It might be that the car manufacturers are stepping up to the plate, but i dont get the sense that the infastructure in the country as a whole will have the capability to manage plug-in charging. People who live in terraced houses with terraces both sides often have one side of the road double yellow to maintain reasonable access. This means that people can't guarantee parking outside of their home. It's going to cost £billions and will require years of planning to sort out. It just does not feel like it is happening." There is infrastructure in place today, it needs to be expanded. For example, street lighting can be used for charging stations a lot of it is 3 phase. Smart charging is also starting to appear on new builds, offices and other places where there is more electric cars and I could so no reason why it would not be a perfect fit for terraced housing situations. The smart chargers talk to each other and can charge based on variables such as charges held, when you need your car etc. This takes some of the load of the network as the charger spreads the load to where it is needed first while managing the charge for all the vehicles connected to its network. | |||
" People who live in terraced houses with terraces both sides often have one side of the road double yellow to maintain reasonable access. This means that people can't guarantee parking outside of their home. It's going to cost £billions and will require years of planning to sort out. It just does not feel like it is happening." What you are assuming is that charging is only going to be available via electric points at residential locations and the petrol station in effect is dead …. Just because that is the way it is done now Reimagine it a little… you don’t get your petrol from home now! Yes there are going to be some points in residential locations, yes some will be able to charge from home! But the majority will still use filling stations of some sort! So you will have your filling stations, still have the filling station shop to get your goodies and pay, maybe have a cafe to get you tea/coffees whilst you wait As long as the infrastructure at filling stations speed wise can keep up with the speed that the car infrastructure can handle, then you won’t spend any more time filling up than you do now A lot of cars can do 250-300 miles range now… it’s only going to get better and better and the price of cars will get lower and lower | |||
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"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership? Not really… you are making the assumption that will be charging up cars more regularly than they fill up petrol… So I did some digging into figures … 42,000 electric car charging points in the uk… 8300 petrol stations, if say each petrol station on average has 10 points… that’s 83,000 petrol points.. Not all cars are going to be there at all times… if you have seen a tesla’s supercharger station space wise you could probably fit in double what you could at a normal service station Certain things will need to be put into place… rapid charging which for most cars will mean 0-80% in 15-20 minutes It’s coming… in the next year to 18 months fords entire European offering will be all electric (9 different models coming in the next 18 months) The biggest thing is going to be some sort of unified charging system…. It might be that the car manufacturers are stepping up to the plate, but i dont get the sense that the infastructure in the country as a whole will have the capability to manage plug-in charging. People who live in terraced houses with terraces both sides often have one side of the road double yellow to maintain reasonable access. This means that people can't guarantee parking outside of their home. It's going to cost £billions and will require years of planning to sort out. It just does not feel like it is happening." My thoughts exactly | |||
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"I'm not sure how out of date I am with current electric cars but James May did seem very persuasive re Hydrogen fuel cells in his Cars of The People - is there a structural reason why hydrogen isn't being developed as the genuine petrol replacement?" Hydrogen is a bugger to store. The atoms are tiny and can easily push their way through steel. Linings help with that but there's always some leakage. That means that hydrogen will leak out of your tank and build up in your garage. If you like to have a cigarette before setting off, that could have unfortunate consequences. It's also difficult to compress, and it contains about a quarter of the energy per litre than diesel or petrol does. So you would need bigger tanks, and they need to be capable of holding very high pressures. That means regular testing of the tank, and some sort of miraculous crash protection. Because if a hydrogen tank gets damaged in an accident, there's going to be an almighty explosion. | |||
"I'm not sure how out of date I am with current electric cars but James May did seem very persuasive re Hydrogen fuel cells in his Cars of The People - is there a structural reason why hydrogen isn't being developed as the genuine petrol replacement? Hydrogen is a bugger to store. The atoms are tiny and can easily push their way through steel. Linings help with that but there's always some leakage. That means that hydrogen will leak out of your tank and build up in your garage. If you like to have a cigarette before setting off, that could have unfortunate consequences. It's also difficult to compress, and it contains about a quarter of the energy per litre than diesel or petrol does. So you would need bigger tanks, and they need to be capable of holding very high pressures. That means regular testing of the tank, and some sort of miraculous crash protection. Because if a hydrogen tank gets damaged in an accident, there's going to be an almighty explosion." Hydrogen for cars can be produced through a process called electrolysis, where water is split into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity. This hydrogen can then be compressed and stored in tanks on board the car, where it is used to power a fuel cell that generates electricity to drive the vehicle's electric motor. Alternatively, hydrogen can also be produced through a process called steam reforming, where natural gas is reacted with high-temperature steam to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide. However, this process is associated with significant greenhouse gas emissions and is not considered a sustainable way to produce hydrogen. In terms of cost, hydrogen cars can be more expensive to purchase than electric cars, although this can vary depending on the specific models being compared. The cost of producing hydrogen fuel cells and the infrastructure required for hydrogen refuelling stations can also be higher than that required for electric vehicles. However, the cost of hydrogen is expected to decrease as production scales up and new technologies are developed. In terms of the environmental impact, the production of hydrogen can be both environmentally friendly or highly polluting, depending on the method used. If hydrogen is produced using renewable energy sources, such as wind or solar power, then it can be considered a sustainable fuel source with minimal environmental impact. However, if hydrogen is produced using fossil fuels, it can contribute to greenhouse gas emissions and other environmental concerns associated with fossil fuel extraction and processing. Overall, hydrogen cars have the potential to be a viable alternative to electric cars, but there are still challenges that need to be addressed, including the cost and availability of hydrogen production and refuelling infrastructure, as well as the environmental impact of hydrogen production methods. | |||
"I'm not sure how out of date I am with current electric cars but James May did seem very persuasive re Hydrogen fuel cells in his Cars of The People - is there a structural reason why hydrogen isn't being developed as the genuine petrol replacement? Hydrogen is a bugger to store. The atoms are tiny and can easily push their way through steel. Linings help with that but there's always some leakage. That means that hydrogen will leak out of your tank and build up in your garage. If you like to have a cigarette before setting off, that could have unfortunate consequences. It's also difficult to compress, and it contains about a quarter of the energy per litre than diesel or petrol does. So you would need bigger tanks, and they need to be capable of holding very high pressures. That means regular testing of the tank, and some sort of miraculous crash protection. Because if a hydrogen tank gets damaged in an accident, there's going to be an almighty explosion. Hydrogen for cars can be produced through a process called electrolysis, where water is split into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity. This hydrogen can then be compressed and stored in tanks on board the car, where it is used to power a fuel cell that generates electricity to drive the vehicle's electric motor. Alternatively, hydrogen can also be produced through a process called steam reforming, where natural gas is reacted with high-temperature steam to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide. However, this process is associated with significant greenhouse gas emissions and is not considered a sustainable way to produce hydrogen. In terms of cost, hydrogen cars can be more expensive to purchase than electric cars, although this can vary depending on the specific models being compared. The cost of producing hydrogen fuel cells and the infrastructure required for hydrogen refuelling stations can also be higher than that required for electric vehicles. However, the cost of hydrogen is expected to decrease as production scales up and new technologies are developed. In terms of the environmental impact, the production of hydrogen can be both environmentally friendly or highly polluting, depending on the method used. If hydrogen is produced using renewable energy sources, such as wind or solar power, then it can be considered a sustainable fuel source with minimal environmental impact. However, if hydrogen is produced using fossil fuels, it can contribute to greenhouse gas emissions and other environmental concerns associated with fossil fuel extraction and processing. Overall, hydrogen cars have the potential to be a viable alternative to electric cars, but there are still challenges that need to be addressed, including the cost and availability of hydrogen production and refuelling infrastructure, as well as the environmental impact of hydrogen production methods. " Thank you! It did seem that because they converted fuel to energy rather than dissipating stored energy they'd ultimately be more useful than battery fuelled cars, as they are now at least, which wouldn't easily let us drive from London to Edinburgh in one trip. Apart from the cost, wouldn't the approach be to switch petrol stations to hydrogen ones essentially? | |||
"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership?" I share your concern on the infrastructure deficit and fully understand people's concerns on how to charge at home. Charging away from home needs serious investment especially looking at how long they take to charge. I don't fully agree with the time frame of 7 years though as that relates to when new cars must be electric not all cars. ICE cars can continue to be used in the meantime. I don't think 2030 is a cliff edge scenario but certainly the beginning of a serious slope | |||
" People who live in terraced houses with terraces both sides often have one side of the road double yellow to maintain reasonable access. This means that people can't guarantee parking outside of their home. It's going to cost £billions and will require years of planning to sort out. It just does not feel like it is happening. What you are assuming is that charging is only going to be available via electric points at residential locations and the petrol station in effect is dead …. Just because that is the way it is done now Reimagine it a little… you don’t get your petrol from home now! Yes there are going to be some points in residential locations, yes some will be able to charge from home! But the majority will still use filling stations of some sort! So you will have your filling stations, still have the filling station shop to get your goodies and pay, maybe have a cafe to get you tea/coffees whilst you wait As long as the infrastructure at filling stations speed wise can keep up with the speed that the car infrastructure can handle, then you won’t spend any more time filling up than you do now A lot of cars can do 250-300 miles range now… it’s only going to get better and better and the price of cars will get lower and lower " The issue with charging as I see it is that electric cars need to be charged in their downtime, rather than en route. Our local Asda has 8 petrol/diesel pumps and almost at any time of the day all eight pumps are in use and there are more cars queuing - that is with a 4-5 minute turnaround. The only way for this to work with even a rapid charge turnaround will be for every parking slot at the store to have a charger and in fact every parking space in the country to have one. I don’t see en route charging as being viable unless the entire concept of refuelling changes to some kind of event where the charging station is attached to a cafe or restaurant outlet and “recharging” en route becomes a planned rest period from driving. Driving back from Scotland last summer the entire Tesla charging area at Tebay Services was completely full, and more Tesla’s were waiting in a very long queue - that kind of thing is just not going to be viable. | |||
"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership? I share your concern on the infrastructure deficit and fully understand people's concerns on how to charge at home. Charging away from home needs serious investment especially looking at how long they take to charge. I don't fully agree with the time frame of 7 years though as that relates to when new cars must be electric not all cars. ICE cars can continue to be used in the meantime. I don't think 2030 is a cliff edge scenario but certainly the beginning of a serious slope" As has been said on this thread, some manufacturers are already all electric and so I doubt that there will be very many, if any petrol diesel engines vehicles on sale by 2028/29. So the timeframe is even shorter really. I accept that hybrids will have a stay until 2035, but they will be plug-in anyway so there won’t be any spare capacity because of that. | |||
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"If no more new petrol and diesel engines cars are to be sold after 2030 (less than 7 years). Why is there not a mad , crazy scramble to get mass car-charging facilities right across the country? Seven years is not very long at all and I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership? I share your concern on the infrastructure deficit and fully understand people's concerns on how to charge at home. Charging away from home needs serious investment especially looking at how long they take to charge. I don't fully agree with the time frame of 7 years though as that relates to when new cars must be electric not all cars. ICE cars can continue to be used in the meantime. I don't think 2030 is a cliff edge scenario but certainly the beginning of a serious slope As has been said on this thread, some manufacturers are already all electric and so I doubt that there will be very many, if any petrol diesel engines vehicles on sale by 2028/29. So the timeframe is even shorter really. I accept that hybrids will have a stay until 2035, but they will be plug-in anyway so there won’t be any spare capacity because of that." When I asked about my car manufacturer ( Honda) about hybrid. They are waiting to see the criteria for hybrid vehicles . How far can travel on battery alone ? . Details have not been released yet for criteria. Honda and other manufacturers possibly will stop producing hybrids if cannot meet criteria before 2035. This will mean then only fully electric only ? | |||
"Most gas from cattle is actually nitrogen which makes up most of the air we breath and is harmless to us. That's just nonsense. Most of the gas a cow breathes out is indeed nitrogen. That's because the atmosphere is 79% nitrogen, so most of the gas a cow breathes in is nitrogen. Given that nitrogen serves no purpose in cows, that gas gets breathed straight back out again. Cows don't produce nitrogen. But cows do produce methane, in non-trivial quantities. Correct "I think it's bullshit | |||
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" People who live in terraced houses with terraces both sides often have one side of the road double yellow to maintain reasonable access. This means that people can't guarantee parking outside of their home. It's going to cost £billions and will require years of planning to sort out. It just does not feel like it is happening. What you are assuming is that charging is only going to be available via electric points at residential locations and the petrol station in effect is dead …. Just because that is the way it is done now Reimagine it a little… you don’t get your petrol from home now! Yes there are going to be some points in residential locations, yes some will be able to charge from home! But the majority will still use filling stations of some sort! So you will have your filling stations, still have the filling station shop to get your goodies and pay, maybe have a cafe to get you tea/coffees whilst you wait As long as the infrastructure at filling stations speed wise can keep up with the speed that the car infrastructure can handle, then you won’t spend any more time filling up than you do now A lot of cars can do 250-300 miles range now… it’s only going to get better and better and the price of cars will get lower and lower " So I fill up every night to do about 250 to 500 miles a day it takes me about 10 minutes with paying so its got a long way to go if I can get 500 miles from a charge and charge in 10 minutes. And befor you say charge on you brake I pretty munch don't stop when I have left home job to job. | |||
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"As a retired electrical engineer. A lot of people forget that most house electrical supply / fuse boxes do not have the correct safety device fitted (rcd) for charging an EV. My house has a newish fuse board . But would either need changing or an extra one fitted . To ensure safe charging of an EV. " Most charge points are not wired to the existing fuse box especially if it's an out side meter it's wired to the cut out. With a load sheding device to protect the cut out fuse so if you are using to much load you car well not be charged when you wake up for work. | |||
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"As a retired electrical engineer. A lot of people forget that most house electrical supply / fuse boxes do not have the correct safety device fitted (rcd) for charging an EV. My house has a newish fuse board . But would either need changing or an extra one fitted . To ensure safe charging of an EV. Most charge points are not wired to the existing fuse box especially if it's an out side meter it's wired to the cut out. With a load sheding device to protect the cut out fuse so if you are using to much load you car well not be charged when you wake up for work." My houses and all in the road I live. The incoming mains, meter and fuse box are in the living room. As I said in post. It is not easy to install a EV charger. I have looked into the way of doing. Easiest would be in my house. Upgrade mains supply fuses to 100amp. ( 60amp at present) Change meter to smart meter ( cheaper rate charging at night). I have a digital meter. Then fit new fuse board for EV charger. Downside is cost / disruption. Move furniture / carpet take up floorboards in living room to install cable from fuse board out to charger. Cost would be approx £1000 to £2000. I notice other have said on posts. Fit chargers in lampposts. The ones in my road are about 200mtrs apart. Plus are against the properties fences . This would mean either digging up pavements and installing chargers at kerbsides ( who would pay cost of doing)? Having charger leads across pavements. ? Safety hazard ?. Note lampposts are positioned on boundary line between houses. This so that as many have done . Removed fences to have off road parking on properties. | |||
"As a retired electrical engineer. A lot of people forget that most house electrical supply / fuse boxes do not have the correct safety device fitted (rcd) for charging an EV. My house has a newish fuse board . But would either need changing or an extra one fitted . To ensure safe charging of an EV. Most charge points are not wired to the existing fuse box especially if it's an out side meter it's wired to the cut out. With a load sheding device to protect the cut out fuse so if you are using to much load you car well not be charged when you wake up for work. My houses and all in the road I live. The incoming mains, meter and fuse box are in the living room. As I said in post. It is not easy to install a EV charger. I have looked into the way of doing. Easiest would be in my house. Upgrade mains supply fuses to 100amp. ( 60amp at present) Change meter to smart meter ( cheaper rate charging at night). I have a digital meter. Then fit new fuse board for EV charger. Downside is cost / disruption. Move furniture / carpet take up floorboards in living room to install cable from fuse board out to charger. Cost would be approx £1000 to £2000. I notice other have said on posts. Fit chargers in lampposts. The ones in my road are about 200mtrs apart. Plus are against the properties fences . This would mean either digging up pavements and installing chargers at kerbsides ( who would pay cost of doing)? Having charger leads across pavements. ? Safety hazard ?. Note lampposts are positioned on boundary line between houses. This so that as many have done . Removed fences to have off road parking on properties. " If you are rural well you basically fucked. Same here  city folk do no not take that into consideration. It's all about them . | |||
"As a retired electrical engineer. A lot of people forget that most house electrical supply / fuse boxes do not have the correct safety device fitted (rcd) for charging an EV. My house has a newish fuse board . But would either need changing or an extra one fitted . To ensure safe charging of an EV. Most charge points are not wired to the existing fuse box especially if it's an out side meter it's wired to the cut out. With a load sheding device to protect the cut out fuse so if you are using to much load you car well not be charged when you wake up for work. My houses and all in the road I live. The incoming mains, meter and fuse box are in the living room. As I said in post. It is not easy to install a EV charger. I have looked into the way of doing. Easiest would be in my house. Upgrade mains supply fuses to 100amp. ( 60amp at present) Change meter to smart meter ( cheaper rate charging at night). I have a digital meter. Then fit new fuse board for EV charger. Downside is cost / disruption. Move furniture / carpet take up floorboards in living room to install cable from fuse board out to charger. Cost would be approx £1000 to £2000. I notice other have said on posts. Fit chargers in lampposts. The ones in my road are about 200mtrs apart. Plus are against the properties fences . This would mean either digging up pavements and installing chargers at kerbsides ( who would pay cost of doing)? Having charger leads across pavements. ? Safety hazard ?. Note lampposts are positioned on boundary line between houses. This so that as many have done . Removed fences to have off road parking on properties. If you are rural well you basically fucked. Same here city folk do no not take that into consideration. It's all about them ."I am nowhere near rural. Houses in road built in 1936. By private house builder. Both ends of road go into council housing estate. Although most are privately owned now. | |||
"So, the big question is: Where is all the electricity going to come from? The grid was close to capacity this winter without all the car chargers. Government is incompetent in not mandating a single charger standard with vehicle to grid capability." Was waiting for someone to mention this | |||
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"We need someone to design a high powered portable solar panel or wind turbine, when your are parked up the panel or turbine will charge the car." Agree I can't believe EV cars don't have a solar panel Iin the roof to top up as in the sun. | |||
"I can't believe EV cars don't have a solar panel in the roof to top up as in the sun. " There's no point. If the entire roof was a solar panel, you might get an extra 10-15 miles range on a very sunny day. And it would make the car much more complex. | |||
"So, the big question is: Where is all the electricity going to come from? The grid was close to capacity this winter without all the car chargers. Government is incompetent in not mandating a single charger standard with vehicle to grid capability. Was waiting for someone to mention this "I know ironically it was Tesla that were originally pushing for a single standard years ago as at that point they had both the fastest charger speed points and the most charging stations In fact all the patents for charging are free to use as Tesla actually made those public domain With regards to a single charger Standard to grid that actually ironically may end up being a standard but it will be covered under EU legislation (you know the one that means all mobile phones in 2 years time maximum will all need to use the same charging leads.. that one!) just because it’s not going make sense to have different ones for different markets… | |||
"So, the big question is: Where is all the electricity going to come from? The grid was close to capacity this winter without all the car chargers. Government is incompetent in not mandating a single charger standard with vehicle to grid capability. Was waiting for someone to mention this
I know ironically it was Tesla that were originally pushing for a single standard years ago as at that point they had both the fastest charger speed points and the most charging stations
In fact all the patents for charging are free to use as Tesla actually made those public domain
With regards to a single charger Standard to grid that actually ironically may end up being a standard but it will be covered under EU legislation (you know the one that means all mobile phones in 2 years time maximum will all need to use the same charging leads.. that one!) just because it’s not going make sense to have different ones for different markets…"Surly the way to go is to get rid of the cables altogether as it's already possible to charge an electric car wirelessly using a technology called Wireless Power Transfer (WPT), also known as wireless charging. Wireless charging for electric cars works by using an electromagnetic field to transfer energy from a charging pad or coil on the ground to a receiver coil on the car. This process is known as electromagnetic induction. The receiver coil on the car then converts the electromagnetic energy into electrical energy to charge the car's battery. There are different types of wireless charging systems, including stationary pads or coils installed in parking spaces or garages, as well as dynamic wireless charging systems that allow electric cars to charge while they are in motion on specially designed roads. While the technology is still relatively new, it has the potential to revolutionize the way electric cars are charged, making charging more convenient and reducing the need for physical connections and cables. | |||
"Surly the way to go is to get rid of the cables altogether as it's already possible to charge an electric car wirelessly using a technology called Wireless Power Transfer (WPT), also known as wireless charging. Wireless charging for electric cars works by using an electromagnetic field to transfer energy from a charging pad or coil on the ground to a receiver coil on the car. This process is known as electromagnetic induction. The receiver coil on the car then converts the electromagnetic energy into electrical energy to charge the car's battery. There are different types of wireless charging systems, including stationary pads or coils installed in parking spaces or garages, as well as dynamic wireless charging systems that allow electric cars to charge while they are in motion on specially designed roads. While the technology is still relatively new, it has the potential to revolutionize the way electric cars are charged, making charging more convenient and reducing the need for physical connections and cables." It does sound great, but sadly wireless charging is rubbish. Even when the coils are perfectly matched, there's quite a bit of power lost in the transfer. And they do have to be perfectly matched. Park your car one inch out of place, and the coils won't line up, so the charging won't work. It's a very promising technology for trains, but there are too many difficulties to overcome for it to ever work with human driven cars. Especially when you can just plug in a cable and avoid all those issues. | |||
"We need someone to design a high powered portable solar panel or wind turbine, when your are parked up the panel or turbine will charge the car." Have a wind turbine that is driven by the forward motion of the car. The faster you go the bigger the charge! | |||
"Surly the way to go is to get rid of the cables altogether as it's already possible to charge an electric car wirelessly using a technology called Wireless Power Transfer (WPT), also known as wireless charging. Wireless charging for electric cars works by using an electromagnetic field to transfer energy from a charging pad or coil on the ground to a receiver coil on the car. This process is known as electromagnetic induction. The receiver coil on the car then converts the electromagnetic energy into electrical energy to charge the car's battery. There are different types of wireless charging systems, including stationary pads or coils installed in parking spaces or garages, as well as dynamic wireless charging systems that allow electric cars to charge while they are in motion on specially designed roads. While the technology is still relatively new, it has the potential to revolutionize the way electric cars are charged, making charging more convenient and reducing the need for physical connections and cables. It does sound great, but sadly wireless charging is rubbish. Even when the coils are perfectly matched, there's quite a bit of power lost in the transfer. And they do have to be perfectly matched. Park your car one inch out of place, and the coils won't line up, so the charging won't work. It's a very promising technology for trains, but there are too many difficulties to overcome for it to ever work with human driven cars. Especially when you can just plug in a cable and avoid all those issues." Systems from WiTricity, which has emerged as the technology leader, and others will keep to the J2954 standard that was designed to reliably produce usable wireless charging at a distance of between 10 and 25 cm (3.9 and 9.8 inches), which accommodates the ground clearance of nearly any production vehicle, from sports cars to off-road SUVs. And at 11kw of power, it’s giving the typical EV back about 35 miles of range per hour parked. With an alignment method that’s built into the standard, a low-energy beacon signal from the pad helps either display to the driver where the vehicle should be parked, or it automates the whole thing. A wi-fi handshake completes what will essentially be a no-touch version of Plug and Charge—essentially Park and Charge. With roughly 85% of charging done at home, this is designed to be the daily charging method. They say it's between 90 to 93% efficient which is equivalent to charging by cable. I think they use Resonant charging: Another wireless charging technology that is being developed for electric cars. This technology uses resonance between two coils to transfer energy wirelessly. The charging pad or coil on the ground generates an electromagnetic field at a specific frequency, which is picked up by the receiver coil on the car that resonates at the same frequency. This resonance allows for more efficient energy transfer and reduces the need for precise alignment between the coils. Wireless charging for electric cars can be static or dynamic. Static charging involves parking an electric car over a stationary charging pad or coil on the ground, while dynamic charging allows electric cars to charge while they are in motion on specially designed roads. Dynamic charging systems use a series of charging pads or coils embedded in the road to transfer energy wirelessly to electric cars as they drive over them. Wireless charging systems for electric cars are designed to be safe and efficient. They use shields and barriers to prevent interference with other electronic devices and to limit exposure to electromagnetic radiation. The efficiency of wireless charging systems is still being improved, but it is already comparable to or better than traditional wired charging systems. The only problem is the cost as with everything in this life. | |||
"Systems from WiTricity, which has emerged as the technology leader, and others will keep to the J2954 standard that was designed to reliably produce usable wireless charging at a distance of between 10 and 25 cm (3.9 and 9.8 inches), which accommodates the ground clearance of nearly any production vehicle, from sports cars to off-road SUVs. And at 11kw of power, it’s giving the typical EV back about 35 miles of range per hour parked. With an alignment method that’s built into the standard, a low-energy beacon signal from the pad helps either display to the driver where the vehicle should be parked, or it automates the whole thing. A wi-fi handshake completes what will essentially be a no-touch version of Plug and Charge—essentially Park and Charge. With roughly 85% of charging done at home, this is designed to be the daily charging method. They say it's between 90 to 93% efficient which is equivalent to charging by cable. I think they use Resonant charging: Another wireless charging technology that is being developed for electric cars. This technology uses resonance between two coils to transfer energy wirelessly. The charging pad or coil on the ground generates an electromagnetic field at a specific frequency, which is picked up by the receiver coil on the car that resonates at the same frequency. This resonance allows for more efficient energy transfer and reduces the need for precise alignment between the coils. Wireless charging for electric cars can be static or dynamic. Static charging involves parking an electric car over a stationary charging pad or coil on the ground, while dynamic charging allows electric cars to charge while they are in motion on specially designed roads. Dynamic charging systems use a series of charging pads or coils embedded in the road to transfer energy wirelessly to electric cars as they drive over them. Wireless charging systems for electric cars are designed to be safe and efficient. They use shields and barriers to prevent interference with other electronic devices and to limit exposure to electromagnetic radiation. The efficiency of wireless charging systems is still being improved, but it is already comparable to or better than traditional wired charging systems. The only problem is the cost as with everything in this life." I hate to be rude, but it's clear that you're just re-posting advertising copy from the manufacturers without actually understanding any of it. Charging via a cable is as close to 100% efficient as it's possible to get. Wireless charging rarely gets above 75% efficiency in practical use. All wireless charging technology is 'resonant'. That's the only way to make it work at any sort of acceptable level. I've never seen a set-up that exceeds 90% efficiency, even under perfect conditions. When you start putting metal near the coils, it becomes very difficult to maintain that level of efficiency, and cars tend to have quite a lot of metal in them. Wireless charging has its uses, but not in cars. | |||
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"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric " Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go?" due to the tariff | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric " You don’t have a petrol station outside your house.. and yet we manage to live with an ICE car… P.s they will likely convert petrol stations to have some electric super charging points…  | |||
"Surly the way to go is to get rid of the cables altogether as it's already possible to charge an electric car wirelessly using a technology called Wireless Power Transfer (WPT), also known as wireless charging. Wireless charging for electric cars works by using an electromagnetic field to transfer energy from a charging pad or coil on the ground to a receiver coil on the car. This process is known as electromagnetic induction. The receiver coil on the car then converts the electromagnetic energy into electrical energy to charge the car's battery. There are different types of wireless charging systems, including stationary pads or coils installed in parking spaces or garages, as well as dynamic wireless charging systems that allow electric cars to charge while they are in motion on specially designed roads. While the technology is still relatively new, it has the potential to revolutionize the way electric cars are charged, making charging more convenient and reducing the need for physical connections and cables. It does sound great, but sadly wireless charging is rubbish. Even when the coils are perfectly matched, there's quite a bit of power lost in the transfer. And they do have to be perfectly matched. Park your car one inch out of place, and the coils won't line up, so the charging won't work. It's a very promising technology for trains, but there are too many difficulties to overcome for it to ever work with human driven cars. Especially when you can just plug in a cable and avoid all those issues." Without sounding flippant I was going to say before we start talking about wireless charging for cars can we get wireless charging for mobile phones properly sorted first!!! | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric You don’t have a petrol station outside your house.. and yet we manage to live with an ICE car… P.s they will likely convert petrol stations to have some electric super charging points… "By the same argument why does every house need a toilet | |||
" Without sounding flippant I was going to say before we start talking about wireless charging for cars can we get wireless charging for mobile phones properly sorted first!!! "Works fine for tooth brushes and...er, that's it? | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff" I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? | |||
"... When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? " Maybe you don't know anyone who is on that appallingly socially divisive metering system. Unfortunately, the ability to run an electric car is going to lead to further division. If it hasn't already with the establishment of the Tesla elite, mainly getting them as a business perk. | |||
"... When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? Maybe you don't know anyone who is on that appallingly socially divisive metering system. Unfortunately, the ability to run an electric car is going to lead to further division. If it hasn't already with the establishment of the Tesla elite, mainly getting them as a business perk." I don't know anyone on the scheme but I do know I don't like the sound of it or how the energy companies have been treating people on them or forcing them onto them. That is why I have the question, is being on this scheme preventative physically because of equipment or is being made financially impossible by the energy company? Either or, it should not be a barrier for an EV charging point. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? " I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. " Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted." prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable " Probably because an EV tariff usually gives a reduced rate for charging the car overnight. Prepay was more expensive and wasn't variable. Just get a direct debit type of meter. If you can afford an electric car then you must have enough of a credit history to get off prepay. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable " I could be wrong, but that sounds as though British Gas do not want to invest in their side of the tech to allow pre paid meters to be able to support EV charging points or multiple charging rates. If that is the case it wouldn't look good on their sustainability efforts... | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric You don’t have a petrol station outside your house.. and yet we manage to live with an ICE car… P.s they will likely convert petrol stations to have some electric super charging points…
By the same argument why does every house need a toilet"We just got use to that happening.. you could use the argument of indoor toilets rather than in days of old having them outside….
I am sure that people will get use to changing stations as much as petrol stations | |||
" I am sure that people will get use to changing stations as much as petrol stations " They will certainly have to get used to killing time while the process takes place. No more pulling in at a pump and very occasionally having to wait for some prat to do their weekly grocery shop in the kiosk before moving their car away so you can move forward.. Could be a whole new way of life! | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. " See I may be missing the point you are making, but with the great accessibility of charging points would you not just pay for charging the same way as you would pay for petrol at a petrol station? I think so many people are getting caught up in the “I have to charge it up outside my house “ thought that they are forgetting that other places are and will be available… for example, could you imagine an entire floor at a shopping centre car park being available for ev charging? | |||
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"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. See I may be missing the point you are making, but with the great accessibility of charging points would you not just pay for charging the same way as you would pay for petrol at a petrol station? I think so many people are getting caught up in the “I have to charge it up outside my house “ thought that they are forgetting that other places are and will be available… for example, could you imagine an entire floor at a shopping centre car park being available for ev charging? " The only financial advantage of electric cars is that you can charge them at home using lower cost electricity. If you have to use public chargers (especially fast ones) then an electric car costs more than an ICE one in fuel. They are also 3x more expensive than an ICE car to buy in the first place. | |||
" If you have to use public chargers (especially fast ones) then an electric car costs more than an ICE one in fuel. They are also 3x more expensive than an ICE car to buy in the first place." That's because they know that certain sections of the community are always awash with money, or else a business is going to be paying for it anyway and passing the cost down the line. Not a lot really changes on the car buying scene, other than inevitable price increases to keep those in the feeding chain well fed. | |||
" I am sure that people will get use to changing stations as much as petrol stations They will certainly have to get used to killing time while the process takes place. No more pulling in at a pump and very occasionally having to wait for some prat to do their weekly grocery shop in the kiosk before moving their car away so you can move forward.. Could be a whole new way of life!" the transition to EV has started with home charging and I can understand that people will want that too, it is convenient. I agree that it could be a whole new way. I fill my tank up every fuel station visit because I let it run down. I know Im carrying more weight with the extra fuel I don't really need and I get less economy but it is pure convenience. I think EV charging might become more frequent splash and dash type charging. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. See I may be missing the point you are making, but with the great accessibility of charging points would you not just pay for charging the same way as you would pay for petrol at a petrol station? I think so many people are getting caught up in the “I have to charge it up outside my house “ thought that they are forgetting that other places are and will be available… for example, could you imagine an entire floor at a shopping centre car park being available for ev charging? " I can and have seen it done in a car park. But the more cars that plug in the slower everyone’s car charges. Or if you are really lucky your car gets priority over others.No idea how this would work in public car charging but some cars get priority over others in the private car park | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable Probably because an EV tariff usually gives a reduced rate for charging the car overnight. Prepay was more expensive and wasn't variable. Just get a direct debit type of meter. If you can afford an electric car then you must have enough of a credit history to get off prepay." l can't get off prepay or I would as it costs me so much more than if I was paying it normally. As I said, it's a motability car... and get a new car every 3 years. Well until 2030 as I won't be able to manage with an electric car full stop as just not practical | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable Probably because an EV tariff usually gives a reduced rate for charging the car overnight. Prepay was more expensive and wasn't variable. Just get a direct debit type of meter. If you can afford an electric car then you must have enough of a credit history to get off prepay. l can't get off prepay or I would as it costs me so much more than if I was paying it normally. As I said, it's a motability car... and get a new car every 3 years. Well until 2030 as I won't be able to manage with an electric car full stop as just not practical " I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable Probably because an EV tariff usually gives a reduced rate for charging the car overnight. Prepay was more expensive and wasn't variable. Just get a direct debit type of meter. If you can afford an electric car then you must have enough of a credit history to get off prepay. l can't get off prepay or I would as it costs me so much more than if I was paying it normally. As I said, it's a motability car... and get a new car every 3 years. Well until 2030 as I won't be able to manage with an electric car full stop as just not practical " You would probably be as well go for something like this Masda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-HvIhRwHFk it's only got a small battery around 124mile range, but it's got what they call a range extender, a wankel rotary generator which they say will give you 400 mile range. Here's a more in depth view on how it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3gzQVGEqF4 | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable Probably because an EV tariff usually gives a reduced rate for charging the car overnight. Prepay was more expensive and wasn't variable. Just get a direct debit type of meter. If you can afford an electric car then you must have enough of a credit history to get off prepay. l can't get off prepay or I would as it costs me so much more than if I was paying it normally. As I said, it's a motability car... and get a new car every 3 years. Well until 2030 as I won't be able to manage with an electric car full stop as just not practical You would probably be as well go for something like this Masda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-HvIhRwHFk it's only got a small battery around 124mile range, but it's got what they call a range extender, a wankel rotary generator which they say will give you 400 mile range. Here's a more in depth view on how it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3gzQVGEqF4" I've actually decided I'd rather give up having the car than be forced to have something I don't want. Can get a decent petrol or diesel and still get my free tax on it. The thing is I don't see how they can push the electric cars when they just aren't practical at all. | |||
" The only financial advantage of electric cars is that you can charge them at home using lower cost electricity. If you have to use public chargers (especially fast ones) then an electric car costs more than an ICE one in fuel. They are also 3x more expensive than an ICE car to buy in the first place." I think they would have to regulate the charging prices at charging points so people aren’t being price gauged…. Also your last point is no longer necessarily true… for example the price of an MG4 (which is the car of the year in various outlets) is actually cheaper to buy than a new ford focus! But yes there are more 20-30k EVs coming in the next 12-18 months | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. See I may be missing the point you are making, but with the great accessibility of charging points would you not just pay for charging the same way as you would pay for petrol at a petrol station? I think so many people are getting caught up in the “I have to charge it up outside my house “ thought that they are forgetting that other places are and will be available… for example, could you imagine an entire floor at a shopping centre car park being available for ev charging? " From a electrical supply point of view. How many car parks, out of town superstores and if changed over filling stations have big enough electrical supplies to fit EV chargers. EV vehicles were not even though about when most of the places built. In town centre near me . Multi story car park has approx 1600 parking spaces. Yet at present only one EV charger . Most places like this do not have large electrical supplies to them. Only need supply for lifts, lighting , barriers and ticket machines. Plus relevant fuse boards etc. So would need extra supply cable fitted . That is also if nearest sub station supply has capacity to do. It is infrastructure that is going to be problem. The cost ? | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. Is it pay as you go or is it a prepaid meter but I don't see why you could not have a charger fitted.prepaid meter.. British gas have said you must be paying by direct debit to have one as the tariff for prepay is not suitable " WOW that would be one for you MP especially at the moment with British Gas forcing in to property to fit Prepaid meters. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric You don’t have a petrol station outside your house.. and yet we manage to live with an ICE car… P.s they will likely convert petrol stations to have some electric super charging points…
By the same argument why does every house need a toilet
We just got use to that happening.. you could use the argument of indoor toilets rather than in days of old having them outside….
I am sure that people will get use to changing stations as much as petrol stations "Just back from my day 230miles filled up in under 10 minutes when you can charge a small van that quick, I'll look at it again. Am getting a power up grade done on 11th of April to alow for 1 charger but UKPN will not allow more then 1 anyway so it will be the wife now getting a hybrid. | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. See I may be missing the point you are making, but with the great accessibility of charging points would you not just pay for charging the same way as you would pay for petrol at a petrol station? I think so many people are getting caught up in the “I have to charge it up outside my house “ thought that they are forgetting that other places are and will be available… for example, could you imagine an entire floor at a shopping centre car park being available for ev charging? " I take it you go shopping a lot I can't as there would not be the power to charge that number of cars at 15kW each. And let's not forget the problem with multistory car parks. | |||
"The Government have already thought of a solution to the lack of charging points. They are buying 10s of thousands of diesel generators and will park them all over the country to charge electric cars. " | |||
"I can't see how they can go all electric. You can't have an electric charging point at home even if you have space, if your on pay as you go electric Why can't you have an EV charger on pay as you go? due to the tariff I'm not following you and I can't find anything on Google, probably need to spell it out to me. When you say tariff, is that the cost to charge the car or something extra you need to pay? I have a motability car.. when I was getting mine, I enquired about if I had to have an electric or plug in hybrid. I was told you can not have a point fitted if your on pay as you go. See I may be missing the point you are making, but with the great accessibility of charging points would you not just pay for charging the same way as you would pay for petrol at a petrol station? I think so many people are getting caught up in the “I have to charge it up outside my house “ thought that they are forgetting that other places are and will be available… for example, could you imagine an entire floor at a shopping centre car park being available for ev charging? From a electrical supply point of view. How many car parks, out of town superstores and if changed over filling stations have big enough electrical supplies to fit EV chargers. EV vehicles were not even though about when most of the places built. In town centre near me . Multi story car park has approx 1600 parking spaces. Yet at present only one EV charger . Most places like this do not have large electrical supplies to them. Only need supply for lifts, lighting , barriers and ticket machines. Plus relevant fuse boards etc. So would need extra supply cable fitted . That is also if nearest sub station supply has capacity to do. It is infrastructure that is going to be problem. The cost ? " So your 1600 parking spaces will reduce as EV's are heaver then ICE vehicles. Buy me there is a garage that installed 6 fast charging points but had to have its own transformer to supply it. | |||
" The only financial advantage of electric cars is that you can charge them at home using lower cost electricity. If you have to use public chargers (especially fast ones) then an electric car costs more than an ICE one in fuel. They are also 3x more expensive than an ICE car to buy in the first place. I think they would have to regulate the charging prices at charging points so people aren’t being price gauged…. Also your last point is no longer necessarily true… for example the price of an MG4 (which is the car of the year in various outlets) is actually cheaper to buy than a new ford focus! But yes there are more 20-30k EVs coming in the next 12-18 months " So you seam more informed then me but I just found this. Summary. The time it takes to charge an electric car can be as little as 30 minutes or more than 12 hours. This depends on the size of the battery and the speed of the charging point. A typical electric car (60kWh battery) takes just under 8 hours to charge from empty-to-full with a 7kW charging point. So I put more than half a tank in to night so would say I'd be at the charging point for say 5 Hours? | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer. "About time too. Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance? I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago. I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier. I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us. Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith. | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer.
About time too.
Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance?
I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago.
I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier.
I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us.
Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith."It's that the tariff is not suitable.. it's all one flat rate.. where as an ev tariff is cheaper out of hours . I'm paying £50 per week for electricity without adding a car to charge | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer.
About time too.
Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance?
I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago.
I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier.
I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us.
Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith."The maximum amount of amps a prepayment meter can handle in the UK will depend on the specific model and manufacturer of the meter. Generally, the maximum load capacity of a prepayment meter is stated on the manufacturer's documentation or label on the meter itself. In most cases, prepayment meters are designed to handle typical domestic electricity loads, which typically range between 60-100 amps. However, it's important to note that if you require a higher load capacity, you may need to install a different type of meter or consult with a qualified electrician to ensure that your meter is able to handle the required load. | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer.
About time too.
Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance?
I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago.
I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier.
I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us.
Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith.
The maximum amount of amps a prepayment meter can handle in the UK will depend on the specific model and manufacturer of the meter. Generally, the maximum load capacity of a prepayment meter is stated on the manufacturer's documentation or label on the meter itself. In most cases, prepayment meters are designed to handle typical domestic electricity loads, which typically range between 60-100 amps. However, it's important to note that if you require a higher load capacity, you may need to install a different type of meter or consult with a qualified electrician to ensure that your meter is able to handle the required load."Most residential meters have a 100A rating. Pre-payment or not. | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer.
About time too.
Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance?
I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago.
I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier.
I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us.
Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith.
The maximum amount of amps a prepayment meter can handle in the UK will depend on the specific model and manufacturer of the meter. Generally, the maximum load capacity of a prepayment meter is stated on the manufacturer's documentation or label on the meter itself. In most cases, prepayment meters are designed to handle typical domestic electricity loads, which typically range between 60-100 amps. However, it's important to note that if you require a higher load capacity, you may need to install a different type of meter or consult with a qualified electrician to ensure that your meter is able to handle the required load.
Most residential meters have a 100A rating. Pre-payment or not."It seems the issue is the pre pay meters only have one tariff, the highest possible... EV charging during the night lowers the tariff as far as I can understand on this thread and that is not supported by the meters tariff. How are people coping on these meters during this energy crisis? | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer.
About time too.
Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance?
I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago.
I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier.
I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us.
Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith.
The maximum amount of amps a prepayment meter can handle in the UK will depend on the specific model and manufacturer of the meter. Generally, the maximum load capacity of a prepayment meter is stated on the manufacturer's documentation or label on the meter itself. In most cases, prepayment meters are designed to handle typical domestic electricity loads, which typically range between 60-100 amps. However, it's important to note that if you require a higher load capacity, you may need to install a different type of meter or consult with a qualified electrician to ensure that your meter is able to handle the required load.
Most residential meters have a 100A rating. Pre-payment or not.
It seems the issue is the pre pay meters only have one tariff, the highest possible...
EV charging during the night lowers the tariff as far as I can understand on this thread and that is not supported by the meters tariff.
How are people coping on these meters during this energy crisis?
"I genuinely have no idea how they are coping but as always, the ones who are struggling most are punished further. | |||
" I was reading this morning that from July 1st prepay meters will be charged the same rate as DD customer.
About time too.
Pre-payment, of the type where you go to a newsagent etc to get a key charged up has been an insult to the less fortunate for years. How can it be fair that I pay less, quarterly in arrears than somebody who has paid in advance?
I am not joking when I say that pre-payment is socially divisive. It is also punitive and discriminatory. It reinforces people's poverty status and should have been taken to task long ago.
I haven't researched the specs of pre-payment meters but I would suspect that they are probably not capable of handling the higher than normal domestic current rating required by a fast charging spur. That, I assume is the basis of what LittleMissCali has been told by her supplier.
I assume that as the pre-payment meter needs to be able to switch off and disconnect the user once the emergency allowance has been spent, it will need relay contacts capable of handling a certain load which could be higher than the design parameters. If anyone on here knows better, please enlighten us.
Excuse my assumptions, which I am making in good faith."All domestic meters are rated at 100A and you can get a off peek model as is used for economy 7. But I agree pre pay should be the same tariff and you should be able to go in to debt more than at the moment witch I think is £5 then cuts you off. Lots are now topped up on a App from a phone.. | |||
"All domestic meters are rated at 100A and you can get a off peek model as is used for economy 7." The meters may be rated at 100A but the supply wiring and main fuse may not. Our house was built in the 1950s and had a 40A main fuse when we moved in. I managed to get that uprated but the wiring into the house was not changed. The fuse is now 80A (in a housing marked 100A) but the supply side wiring is half the size of my meter tails. | |||
"All domestic meters are rated at 100A and you can get a off peek model as is used for economy 7. The meters may be rated at 100A but the supply wiring and main fuse may not. Our house was built in the 1950s and had a 40A main fuse when we moved in. I managed to get that uprated but the wiring into the house was not changed. The fuse is now 80A (in a housing marked 100A) but the supply side wiring is half the size of my meter tails." Yer mine is all being up graded on the 11th April to 100a | |||
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"I'd need to take out equity release to be able to afford drawing 40A from the mains, never mind 100!" To be honest if your just tootling around town most people can manage with the 3 pin 13A charger that plugs into a normal socket. | |||
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"I'd need to take out equity release to be able to afford drawing 40A from the mains, never mind 100! To be honest if your just tootling around town most people can manage with the 3 pin 13A charger that plugs into a normal socket." I hope that the 3pin 13amp charger( Granny lead) is protected by a correct RCD. These leads are for occasional use only. Hence nick name . There are a lot of reports mostly on electrical forums of the plugs or sockets getting hot / showing signs of burning. This due to amount of amps needed to charge for a long period. Up to 8 hours . | |||
" So you seam more informed then me but I just found this. Summary. The time it takes to charge an electric car can be as little as 30 minutes or more than 12 hours. This depends on the size of the battery and the speed of the charging point. A typical electric car (60kWh battery) takes just under 8 hours to charge from empty-to-full with a 7kW charging point. So I put more than half a tank in to night so would say I'd be at the charging point for say 5 Hours?" See the last bit is misleading and disingenuous…. Your bog standard home charger is 7kw…. Your very very basic charging point in somewhere like a public space… is a 150kw charger And now around the country they are putting in 250kw (Tesla again for example) and 350kw superchargers! So as long as the car’s infrastructure can keep up with the potential charging speeds.. then yes you could be look at 10%-80% in 10-15 minutes | |||
" So you seam more informed then me but I just found this. Summary. The time it takes to charge an electric car can be as little as 30 minutes or more than 12 hours. This depends on the size of the battery and the speed of the charging point. A typical electric car (60kWh battery) takes just under 8 hours to charge from empty-to-full with a 7kW charging point. So I put more than half a tank in to night so would say I'd be at the charging point for say 5 Hours? See the last bit is misleading and disingenuous…. Your bog standard home charger is 7kw…. Your very very basic charging point in somewhere like a public space… is a 150kw charger And now around the country they are putting in 250kw (Tesla again for example) and 350kw superchargers! So as long as the car’s infrastructure can keep up with the potential charging speeds.. then yes you could be look at 10%-80% in 10-15 minutes " OK that's not as bad s i thought I have looked at vans for work but there not up to it yet. So do you feal there will be enough electrical infestrucher to role this out in 7 years my nearest just looked and my nearest 150kw is about 20 minute 7 miles away. But guess if all for courts ad 350kw chargers it might get there | |||
"We need someone to design a high powered portable solar panel or wind turbine, when your are parked up the panel or turbine will charge the car. Have a wind turbine that is driven by the forward motion of the car. The faster you go the bigger the charge!" Now you are talking. Can it be used to give a burst of speed when needed, as a small propeller? | |||
"The whole electric car thing is at best a blind alley Was a toyota suv on test at a local dealers last week looked good roomy seats 5 adults large boot contemporary styling. Averages 315 - 330 mpg on hydrogen 5 gallon tank gives it a massive range £56k price only problem atm only 5 hydrogen filling stations in uk and £90 a gallon ." You can buy a 50l bottle of hydrogen from calor gas, for about £60 a bottle. Not sure how many you would need to run a car for a month though. | |||
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"Apparently, the German car manufaare now seriously lobbying the EU to postpone the 2030 target date......" I have read this is confirmed. Read an article online tonight. Manufacturers can produce internal combustion engines if they can run on e fuel after 2035. The German car manufacturers have lobbied for this to be changed. Will be interesting to see , if UK changes also.? | |||
"Have a wind turbine that is driven by the forward motion of the car. The faster you go the bigger the charge." Basic Physics: "energy cannot be created or destroyed". So the energy to turn the turbine comes from forward motion, which comes from the energy stored in the batteries. Due to the inefficiencies in the system, any car with a wind turbine will use battery power much faster than one without. | |||
"OK that's not as bad s i thought I have looked at vans for work but there not up to it yet." We like to go away in our motorhome. No electric van can replace it. Weight of the batteries is a major problem and would need EVs to be allowed to weigh more than 3.5 tonnes but be allowed where a 3.5 tonne vehicle is allowed now. Same with driving licence. I think the UK allows people with a post 1997 licence to drive EVs up to 4.25 tonnes commercially without taking another test but it doesn't apply to motorhomes (or to every country we like to visit). Then there is the range issue. 10 minutes gives me 90 litres of diesel which will take me 450 miles. Best EV van range is about 150 miles, less when fully loaded, even less with a big motorhome body. Then an hour to charge. Not practical. | |||
"The whole electric car thing is at best a blind alley Was a toyota suv on test at a local dealers last week looked good roomy seats 5 adults large boot contemporary styling. Averages 315 - 330 mpg on hydrogen 5 gallon tank gives it a massive range £56k price only problem atm only 5 hydrogen filling stations in uk and £90 a gallon . You can buy a 50l bottle of hydrogen from calor gas, for about £60 a bottle. Not sure how many you would need to run a car for a month though." Apparently 1 kg of hydrogen contains 33.33 kWh and Most electric vehicles sit within the 240 - 450 Watt Hours per Mile range so maybe you can do some rough estimates (figures Google's not mine) I read the EU are to roll out hydrogen filling points in all major towns and every 250km or something like that and also fast charging for ecars | |||
"TYou can buy a 50l bottle of hydrogen from calor gas, for about £60 a bottle. Not sure how many you would need to run a car for a month though." So that's 120p per litre for hydrogen, against 165p per litre for diesel. But diesel has 4 times the volumetric density of hydrogen, which means you need 4 times the amount of hydrogen to go the same distance. | |||
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"So OK let's assume cars do go all electric. So what about vans, lorrys and busses, let alone ships trains and planes. I don't see an A380 runing on Battery's " as stated further up the thread toyota have an suv that will do 315- 330 mpg on hydrogen drives and looks like any other suv only problem is cost of vehicle £56k and cost and availability of fuel £90 per gallon and only seven uk fuel points .expasion of fuel points and increase in users would bring costs down .can see this being the eay to go for busses and other comersial vehicles | |||
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"This was one of the single dumbest ( non covid) policies enacted by the tory government. And it is going to be reversed. The same cross Europe too. It doesn't stop hybrid manufacturing though. So most likely most manufacturers would switch to that. The policy looks likely to be reversed in the UK in the coming year. There simply isn't the battery production facilities or the charging capacity in the uk for it A green dream that if put into practice would not work and cost billions and billions." At present car manufacturers do not know what hybrid cars will be allowed after 2035. The government has not yet given the criteria. Emissions / distance can drive on battery alone etc. So there may be very few hybrid vehicles after 2035 ? | |||
"This was one of the single dumbest ( non covid) policies enacted by the tory government. And it is going to be reversed. The same cross Europe too. It doesn't stop hybrid manufacturing though. So most likely most manufacturers would switch to that. The policy looks likely to be reversed in the UK in the coming year. There simply isn't the battery production facilities or the charging capacity in the uk for it A green dream that if put into practice would not work and cost billions and billions. At present car manufacturers do not know what hybrid cars will be allowed after 2035. The government has not yet given the criteria. Emissions / distance can drive on battery alone etc. So there may be very few hybrid vehicles after 2035 ? " Without the groundwork being done on ncreasing recharging points I feel hybrid is the only way forward. Or wnd hand cars are going to become very very expensive. | |||
" I couldn’t help but wonder how people that live in terraced houses are going to charge their cars? I was driving through some terraced backstreets of Bolton today and it just got me thinking about the logistics of fulfilling this commitment without an investment of tens of billions in charging infrastructure and technology. Surely people who live in terraced houses will just have to give up the idea of personal car ownership?" It's madness. The Germans are already realising that the idea of all electric is nonsense, and are rolling back on this. In answer to your question, just imagine what will happen. You'll have fleets of diesel generators being towed around, offering charging on the street at huge cost per charge and spewing out diesel fumes at the same time. Hilariously, there are pics all over the Internet of electric vehicles running out of charge and having a diesel van with a diesel generator turn up to charge them. | |||
"TYou can buy a 50l bottle of hydrogen from calor gas, for about £60 a bottle. Not sure how many you would need to run a car for a month though. So that's 120p per litre for hydrogen, against 165p per litre for diesel. But diesel has 4 times the volumetric density of hydrogen, which means you need 4 times the amount of hydrogen to go the same distance." Thank you for the context, but calor bottles are hardly renowned for being competitively priced just compare bottled LPG prices to forecourt prices and suddenly Hydrogen isn't expensive. | |||
"So OK let's assume cars do go all electric. So what about vans, lorrys and busses, let alone ships trains and planes. I don't see an A380 runing on Battery's " In time to come they will be selling battery's at greengrocers! | |||
"So OK let's assume cars do go all electric. So what about vans, lorrys and busses, let alone ships trains and planes. I don't see an A380 runing on Battery's In time to come they will be selling battery's at greengrocers!" I wonder how many years that will be? EV car batteries are between 350-450 volts at present. Not the type members of the public can change safely. ? | |||
"So OK let's assume cars do go all electric. So what about vans, lorrys and busses, let alone ships trains and planes. I don't see an A380 runing on Battery's In time to come they will be selling battery's at greengrocers! I wonder how many years that will be? EV car batteries are between 350-450 volts at present. Not the type members of the public can change safely. ? " It was an apostrephal joke about greengrocer's(sic). I'm not really expecting it to happen just yet! | |||
" I wonder how many years that will be? EV car batteries are between 350-450 volts at present. Not the type members of the public can change safely. ? " ....and I won't be lifting car batteries or Calor Gas hydrogen cylinders yet awhile, I've just had some hernias fixed last week! | |||
"In time to come they will be selling battery's at greengrocers!" "I wonder how many years that will be? EV car batteries are between 350-450 volts at present. Not the type members of the public can change safely. ?" "It was an apostrephal joke about greengrocer's(sic). I'm not really expecting it to happen just yet!" I get it.
Sadly I missed it first time round, as I'm too used to 'forum grammar'. | |||
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".. the switch to EVs is being driven by the market rather than government policies" It is? Then why do we need legislation? If the move is market let, the government could cancel the proposed ban and just let the car companies move to EVs by themselves. Seems a bit odd that the EU has just reversed their proposed ban on ICE vehicles, if the manufacturers are already moving away from them. | |||
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".. the switch to EVs is being driven by the market rather than government policies It is? Then why do we need legislation? If the move is market let, the government could cancel the proposed ban and just let the car companies move to EVs by themselves. Seems a bit odd that the EU has just reversed their proposed ban on ICE vehicles, if the manufacturers are already moving away from them." I was reading about this, and I'm not sure if the EU has reversed their 2035 deadline or not... They have agreed allow the sale of e-fuels, fuels made from renewable energy sources. E-fuel can be used in an ICE without producing any emissions, well so they say... The other change is an allowance of zero emission cars to be built, powered by either hydrogen or e-fuel. They are keeping the ban on the petrol and diesel, allowing a fuel change, as I said I'm not sure if they have gone back or not, seems a compromise. I would like to know a little more about e-fuel, I had never heard of it until I read about the EU changes. | |||
" ... I would like to know a little more about e-fuel, I had never heard of it until I read about the EU changes." you can get e fuel via the internet and download it through an app on the phone. Pay for it with crypto currency. I use it a lot to fuel my imagination. Ooops! I just realised I posted this information two days early! | |||
" ... I would like to know a little more about e-fuel, I had never heard of it until I read about the EU changes. you can get e fuel via the internet and download it through an app on the phone. Pay for it with crypto currency. I use it a lot to fuel my imagination. Ooops! I just realised I posted this information two days early!" | |||
"I was reading about this, and I'm not sure if the EU has reversed their 2035 deadline or not..." They have. Originally they said that all internal combustion engines would be banned. Now they've said that manufacturers can continue to sell ICE vehicles, as long as they are tuned for eco-fuel. That means that BMW can continue making ICE vehicles, which are designed for eco-fuel, but will also be able to run on normal petrol. "I would like to know a little more about e-fuel, I had never heard of it until I read about the EU changes." E-fuel is easy and cheap to make, there's no shortage of the raw ingredients, and it's safe and easy to transport. There's one problem. It's alcohol. No government wants the headache of selling alcohol in bulk to consumers. There would be an epidemic of alcoholism, the drinks industry would collapse, and they would miss out on loads of alcohol duty when people started just drinking the raw stuff. They need to come up with a way of stopping us all from abusing it. | |||
" E-fuel is easy and cheap to make, there's no shortage of the raw ingredients, and it's safe and easy to transport. There's one problem. It's alcohol. No government wants the headache of selling alcohol in bulk to consumers. There would be an epidemic of alcoholism, the drinks industry would collapse, and they would miss out on loads of alcohol duty when people started just drinking the raw stuff. They need to come up with a way of stopping us all from abusing it." Are you serious? Where have you got the idea it will be drinkable? Yes we've all heard of 'methers' collapsed on park benches but all manner of industrial alcohols have been readily available for years without undermining our sacrosanct drinks industry. | |||
"So OK let's assume cars do go all electric. So what about vans, lorrys and busses, let alone ships trains and planes. I don't see an A380 runing on Battery's " They electrified most of the main lines on the national rail network years ago… east coast, west coast, great eastern, great western line and midland main line years ago Electric running trains on non electrified lines also exist, where they have diesel generators as backup if needed electric buses already exists! There are loads of them that run various routes in the north east | |||
"Are you serious? Where have you got the idea it will be drinkable?" Well the stuff that they put into petrol today is drinkable. The 10% additive is pure ethanol. It just takes a little bit of thought and effort to extract it. That won't be the case if they move to 100% ethanol, or even with the best alternative, an ethanol / plant oil mix . | |||
"So OK let's assume cars do go all electric. So what about vans, lorrys and busses, let alone ships trains and planes. I don't see an A380 runing on Battery's " BAE has plans for an electric plane. Called The Heart, it will carry 30 passengers, with a range of 125 miles. Small acorns and all that... | |||
" BAE has plans for an electric plane. Called The Heart, it will carry 30 passengers, with a range of 125 miles. Small acorns and all that..." With 30 pedal generators? Should keep the dreaded DVT at bay! | |||
