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Windsor Framework
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"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do?" We will find out soon, I hope he can  | |||
"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do? We will find out soon, I hope he can "The DUP have no choice, but to accept  | |||
"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do?" From what I have been reading, the EU have made some very unexpected and significant concessions. If true, then all credit to Sunak for demonstrating what can be achieved when you negotiate in good faith and with sincerity. What this will do is shine a light on the total incompetence of Boris Johnson and David Frost who really now need to disappear down a very deep rabbit hole and never show their faces again. | |||
"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do? From what I have been reading, the EU have made some very unexpected and significant concessions. If true, then all credit to Sunak for demonstrating what can be achieved when you negotiate in good faith and with sincerity. What this will do is shine a light on the total incompetence of Boris Johnson and David Frost who really now need to disappear down a very deep rabbit hole and never show their faces again." Boris was all about posturing and chest beating..was never gonna work with the EU | |||
"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do? From what I have been reading, the EU have made some very unexpected and significant concessions. If true, then all credit to Sunak for demonstrating what can be achieved when you negotiate in good faith and with sincerity. What this will do is shine a light on the total incompetence of Boris Johnson and David Frost who really now need to disappear down a very deep rabbit hole and never show their faces again. Boris was all about posturing and chest beating..was never gonna work with the EU "And liz truss would have been worse (if she had stayed longer) | |||
"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do? From what I have been reading, the EU have made some very unexpected and significant concessions. If true, then all credit to Sunak for demonstrating what can be achieved when you negotiate in good faith and with sincerity. What this will do is shine a light on the total incompetence of Boris Johnson and David Frost who really now need to disappear down a very deep rabbit hole and never show their faces again. Boris was all about posturing and chest beating..was never gonna work with the EU
And liz truss would have been worse (if she had stayed longer) "She had been hijacked by the ERG.At the end of the day, pragmatism was needed. I just hope the same spirit is applied to the rest of the EU trade negotiations, the country has suffered enough | |||
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"Can't shake the feeling that the King has asked his representatives to step in on this." The cynic in me, reference to Windsor, coronation round the corner, Visit by the EU President, I wouldn't put it past them to try to milk whatever they can in order to get the DUP on board. | |||
"Can't shake the feeling that the King has asked his representatives to step in on this." He hasn't. The government has stiched him up good and proper by involving him | |||
"Can't shake the feeling that the King has asked his representatives to step in on this. He hasn't. The government has stiched him up good and proper by involving him" To pull the rug from beneath the Unionists... | |||
"Is it Rishi Sunak that has finally got the balls to take on and finally bury the ERG,and the Tory Right, to deliver what Theresa attempted to do? From what I have been reading, the EU have made some very unexpected and significant concessions. If true, then all credit to Sunak for demonstrating what can be achieved when you negotiate in good faith and with sincerity. What this will do is shine a light on the total incompetence of Boris Johnson and David Frost who really now need to disappear down a very deep rabbit hole and never show their faces again. Boris was all about posturing and chest beating..was never gonna work with the EU
And liz truss would have been worse (if she had stayed longer)
She had been hijacked by the ERG.At the end of the day, pragmatism was needed. I just hope the same spirit is applied to the rest of the EU trade negotiations, the country has suffered enough "I think Liz was well in with the ERG and not hijacked at all . If you look at her writing prior to being a minister and her very strong association with Tufton Street she was planning her actions for years. I be agree with your sentiments on we’ve all had enough, | |||
"Can't shake the feeling that the King has asked his representatives to step in on this. He hasn't. The government has stiched him up good and proper by involving him" The monarch acts at the behest of Government. He was not allowed to attend COP in Egypt. One of the things he is most passionate about. So yes, stitched,but that is his job. | |||
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"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. " What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? | |||
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"The DUP are going to vote against the ‘first aspect’ of the frame work , " This will make for a difficult election for them, I think. | |||
"The DUP are going to vote against the ‘first aspect’ of the frame work , " That's not good news. I don't see a problem with the vote itself as Labour have indicated they will back it but concerning that the NI government will not be resuming as hoped | |||
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"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland?" I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, | |||
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"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit "Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour....... Swing voters! | |||
"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, " Do you think the people in tge rest of the UK should have a say? Or that the people in England, Wales and NI should have a say in Scottish independence? | |||
"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, Do you think the people in tge rest of the UK should have a say? Or that the people in England, Wales and NI should have a say in Scottish independence?" Simply put, No I don't, would it of been acceptable if the people of France Germany Italy or any other member state of the EU had a vote in Brexit, The Union is meant to be a voluntary Union, of Wales Scotland England plus Northern Ireland, so why would the people of Wales have any say in the democratic right of the people in Scotland | |||
"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, Do you think the people in tge rest of the UK should have a say? Or that the people in England, Wales and NI should have a say in Scottish independence? Simply put, No I don't, would it of been acceptable if the people of France Germany Italy or any other member state of the EU had a vote in Brexit, The Union is meant to be a voluntary Union, of Wales Scotland England plus Northern Ireland, so why would the people of Wales have any say in the democratic right of the people in Scotland " And yet you think that the people in the the south of Ireland should have a say in Northern Ireland's future in the UK? | |||
"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, Do you think the people in tge rest of the UK should have a say? Or that the people in England, Wales and NI should have a say in Scottish independence? Simply put, No I don't, would it of been acceptable if the people of France Germany Italy or any other member state of the EU had a vote in Brexit, The Union is meant to be a voluntary Union, of Wales Scotland England plus Northern Ireland, so why would the people of Wales have any say in the democratic right of the people in Scotland And yet you think that the people in the the south of Ireland should have a say in Northern Ireland's future in the UK?" Yes I do ,as Northern Ireland is not on the same legal footing within the union as England Scotland and Wales, as in the Good Friday agreement or the Belfast agreement, which ever one you choose to call it. It has in it a provision that allows for a board poll to be take by both North and South on uniting the island, you may not like this, but this was voted on by all the people on the island of Ireland, The DUP and The UUP at the last election only got 328000 give or take a few votes between them , and have no problem what so ever in holding up any progress on Brexit to get their own way , these are the same to party's who you would not be welcome in ,as they are totally against gay marriage of any type,even though the people of Northern Ireland voted in favour of it ,you my friends as a couple in their eyes are going to straight to hell , they also say they do not recognise the southern government and want to be part of the UK and its rules,yet abortion wasad legal in the UK in 1967 ,but the DUP and the UUP fought it all the way until 2020 ,refused to take their seats in Stormont to have a vote on it ,it was vote on in the house of Parliament in London and they still resisted it ,you are beating the Drum ,excuse the pun. For parties that only want to except vote that go their own way ,yet you seem to be a man/women who stands over Democracy, | |||
"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, Do you think the people in tge rest of the UK should have a say? Or that the people in England, Wales and NI should have a say in Scottish independence? Simply put, No I don't, would it of been acceptable if the people of France Germany Italy or any other member state of the EU had a vote in Brexit, The Union is meant to be a voluntary Union, of Wales Scotland England plus Northern Ireland, so why would the people of Wales have any say in the democratic right of the people in Scotland And yet you think that the people in the the south of Ireland should have a say in Northern Ireland's future in the UK? Yes I do ,as Northern Ireland is not on the same legal footing within the union as England Scotland and Wales, as in the Good Friday agreement or the Belfast agreement, which ever one you choose to call it. It has in it a provision that allows for a board poll to be take by both North and South on uniting the island, you may not like this, but this was voted on by all the people on the island of Ireland, The DUP and The UUP at the last election only got 328000 give or take a few votes between them , and have no problem what so ever in holding up any progress on Brexit to get their own way , these are the same to party's who you would not be welcome in ,as they are totally against gay marriage of any type,even though the people of Northern Ireland voted in favour of it ,you my friends as a couple in their eyes are going to straight to hell , they also say they do not recognise the southern government and want to be part of the UK and its rules,yet abortion wasad legal in the UK in 1967 ,but the DUP and the UUP fought it all the way until 2020 ,refused to take their seats in Stormont to have a vote on it ,it was vote on in the house of Parliament in London and they still resisted it ,you are beating the Drum ,excuse the pun. For parties that only want to except vote that go their own way ,yet you seem to be a man/women who stands over Democracy, " Tbh, I don't care either way. Just trying to get clarification. As for "standing over democracy", and only accepting votes that go their own way....politics is full of that, on all sides - the most notable of recent times being Brexit. | |||
"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit
Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour.......
Swing voters! "Tbh, I got it completely wrong, I thought there would be far more Torys voting against it, it proves the DUP & ERG are irrelevant | |||
"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit
Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour.......
Swing voters!
Tbh, I got it completely wrong, I thought there would be far more Torys voting against it, it proves the DUP & ERG are irrelevant "The DUP have been thrown under the bus time and time again, all down through the years , they have been promised the sun moon and stars from a number of Tori leaders, but when push comes to shove ,they pick the interests of main land uk over Northern Ireland, The Unionist are loyal to a country and party that have never shown the same level of commitment | |||
"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit
Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour.......
Swing voters!
Tbh, I got it completely wrong, I thought there would be far more Torys voting against it, it proves the DUP & ERG are irrelevant "at least Boris bothered to vote for the *checks notes* sixth time in the last 12 months. | |||
"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit
Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour.......
Swing voters!
Tbh, I got it completely wrong, I thought there would be far more Torys voting against it, it proves the DUP & ERG are irrelevant "The DUP are very relevant in N Ireland, for now at least and they have now confirmed that they will not re-enter Stormont. I guess there will be elections and hopefully, some less extremist DUP voters will abandon them and actually make them irrelevant there too. N Ireland needs to start functioning again as it has a great opportunity now. | |||
"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit
Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour.......
Swing voters!
Tbh, I got it completely wrong, I thought there would be far more Torys voting against it, it proves the DUP & ERG are irrelevant
The DUP are very relevant in N Ireland, for now at least and they have now confirmed that they will not re-enter Stormont.
I guess there will be elections and hopefully, some less extremist DUP voters will abandon them and actually make them irrelevant there too.
N Ireland needs to start functioning again as it has a great opportunity now."True, I suppose I was referring to their relevance (or lack of it) to the Tory Party . It is also good to see that Boris , Truss and the ERG have been ignored | |||
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"Private Eye has a good take on the Windsor Framework…. With King Charles describing it as a Red lane for Harry and Megan and a Green lane with reduced cheques for Andrew….. " | |||
"DUP can't see beyond the precious union. They don't see the potential economic benefits here as they are clouded by the union. The ERG is using them as pawns. Reality is a Sinn Fein First Minister and they can't stomach that a 'protestant state for a protestant people' is vanishing. They will reject Windsor and come back looking more. They are holding the democratic right of the people to ransom once again and the government are allowing it. Not a union of equals unfortunately. It has never been for those of us in NI who want a united Ireland. What do you say to the people who don't want a united Ireland? I would say give the people on the Island of Ireland both North and South a vote, either to keep the status quo, or to united the County with one government were the people who don't want a united Ireland can still be represented and have equal rights to everyone else , Scotland got it's vote ,the UK got its vote ,why are the people of Britain so frightened to give the people of the island of Ireland it'd chance, " With respect the idea of giving the whole of the population both north and south a referendum is a complete nonsense, neither government would sanction such an idea .. It would be to the extremists of Unionism what internment was to the Republicans.. | |||
"The ERG don’t like it either, Sunak is in deep shit
Really? I thought he was the new blue eyed boy? The polls are starting to swing in his favour.......
Swing voters!
Tbh, I got it completely wrong, I thought there would be far more Torys voting against it, it proves the DUP & ERG are irrelevant
The DUP are very relevant in N Ireland, for now at least and they have now confirmed that they will not re-enter Stormont.
I guess there will be elections and hopefully, some less extremist DUP voters will abandon them and actually make them irrelevant there too.
N Ireland needs to start functioning again as it has a great opportunity now."Agreed, as the consensus in the wider Tory parliamentary party is looking towards pragmatic reality and pushing the Erg etc to the sidelines the DUP either step up and do what they were elected for or they will go the same way.. The people in the North want to move forward collectively not go back decades into intransigence and more division.. | |||
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"Who can call a border poll in Ireland? The Good Friday Agreement states that "the Secretary of State" should call a referendum "if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland." Article 1.2 deals with the potential for a united Ireland and states this must be accepted if separate votes held at the same time on both sides of the border support this. In the text of that section, the GFA outlines that both governments must: recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland. The agreement also states that if such a decision is taken in referendums on both sides of the border, governments have an obligation to introduce legislation to give effect to the change. In the case of the UK, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would be responsible for bringing such legislation before the UK parliament. " Thanks for clarifying that point.. I still see it as a red rag to those unionists who are hell bent on not accepting the current democratic mandate which is only going one way demographically.. I hope reason prevails but it doesn't look like it at present.. | |||
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"71.12% voted for this in Northern Ireland a total of 676966 for 274879 against clear majority In the south 94.39% voted for it in the south a total of 1442583 for against 85748 clear majority This took place 25 years ago both North and South agreed to the good Friday agreement / Belfast agreement and to a joint border poll " Do you think there's the political will in the South to do it though? | |||
"Who can call a border poll in Ireland? The Good Friday Agreement states that "the Secretary of State" should call a referendum "if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland." Article 1.2 deals with the potential for a united Ireland and states this must be accepted if separate votes held at the same time on both sides of the border support this. In the text of that section, the GFA outlines that both governments must: recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland. The agreement also states that if such a decision is taken in referendums on both sides of the border, governments have an obligation to introduce legislation to give effect to the change. In the case of the UK, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would be responsible for bringing such legislation before the UK parliament. Thanks for clarifying that point.. I still see it as a red rag to those unionists who are hell bent on not accepting the current democratic mandate which is only going one way demographically.. I hope reason prevails but it doesn't look like it at present.." At some stage even the DUP AND UUP will have to accept democracy | |||
"Who can call a border poll in Ireland? The Good Friday Agreement states that "the Secretary of State" should call a referendum "if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland." Article 1.2 deals with the potential for a united Ireland and states this must be accepted if separate votes held at the same time on both sides of the border support this. In the text of that section, the GFA outlines that both governments must: recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland. The agreement also states that if such a decision is taken in referendums on both sides of the border, governments have an obligation to introduce legislation to give effect to the change. In the case of the UK, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would be responsible for bringing such legislation before the UK parliament. Thanks for clarifying that point.. I still see it as a red rag to those unionists who are hell bent on not accepting the current democratic mandate which is only going one way demographically.. I hope reason prevails but it doesn't look like it at present.. At some stage even the DUP AND UUP will have to accept democracy " I agree, it's either that or become a fringe minority.. | |||
"71.12% voted for this in Northern Ireland a total of 676966 for 274879 against clear majority In the south 94.39% voted for it in the south a total of 1442583 for against 85748 clear majority This took place 25 years ago both North and South agreed to the good Friday agreement / Belfast agreement and to a joint border poll Do you think there's the political will in the South to do it though? " With the current government in time done properly yes If Sinn Fein get into power they will call for that poll the very next day, and yes I would like to see a united Ireland but for both sides and no I don't want to see Sinn Fein in power | |||
"71.12% voted for this in Northern Ireland a total of 676966 for 274879 against clear majority In the south 94.39% voted for it in the south a total of 1442583 for against 85748 clear majority This took place 25 years ago both North and South agreed to the good Friday agreement / Belfast agreement and to a joint border poll Do you think there's the political will in the South to do it though? With the current government in time done properly yes If Sinn Fein get into power they will call for that poll the very next day, and yes I would like to see a united Ireland but for both sides and no I don't want to see Sinn Fein in power " Is it 2024 your next national elections? | |||
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"By March 2025 off the top of my head " Cheers.. | |||
"71.12% voted for this in Northern Ireland a total of 676966 for 274879 against clear majority In the south 94.39% voted for it in the south a total of 1442583 for against 85748 clear majority This took place 25 years ago both North and South agreed to the good Friday agreement / Belfast agreement and to a joint border poll Do you think there's the political will in the South to do it though? With the current government in time done properly yes If Sinn Fein get into power they will call for that poll the very next day, and yes I would like to see a united Ireland but for both sides and no I don't want to see Sinn Fein in power " That's not actually correct. SF policy is to hold a 32 county Citizen's Assembly to discuss the future, hearing concerns and ideas from all concerned groups and propose the shape a new reunited Ireland would take, in advance of any unity referendum. A unity referendum is unlikely to happen in less than five years from SF getting into government. | |||
