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Deal done
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Short answer, no.
Because the DUP will never accept a Sinn Fein first minister in NI!
The protocol is a smokescreen!
"
Do you think he can force it through parliament |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed . |
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"Short answer, no.
Because the DUP will never accept a Sinn Fein first minister in NI!
The protocol is a smokescreen!
Do you think he can force it through parliament "
I think he will, but the DUP will vote against it, as I said, it’s a smokescreen so Stormont won’t get up and running again!
I hope I’m wrong though!
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
So Northern Ireland is effectively in EFTA without having to pay for the privilege?
How terrible for them.
I don't think that it has to be confirmed with a vote if it does not require new legislation.
Win for Sunak and the UK, and EU.
What's the downside? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Short answer, no.
Because the DUP will never accept a Sinn Fein first minister in NI!
The protocol is a smokescreen!
Do you think he can force it through parliament
I think he will, but the DUP will vote against it, as I said, it’s a smokescreen so Stormont won’t get up and running again!
I hope I’m wrong though!
"
I think that you are right that this is about DUP power politics. Nothing to do with benefits to the people of NI. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"See what happens when you aren’t so combative with your neighbours and actually act in good faith….
P.s the pound has risen to £1.20 against the dollar….."
Excellent, I am in New York in 3 weeks   |
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"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed . "
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue. |
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"See what happens when you aren’t so combative with your neighbours and actually act in good faith….
P.s the pound has risen to £1.20 against the dollar….."
P.P.S for most of January 2023 the average rate was 1.2244 and for most of this month it’s been between 1.20 and 1.21 so no effect from the agreement really. |
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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"Do you think he can force it through parliament"
Does he even have to? Aren't Boris' "emergency" COVID Me-and-my-Cabinet-don't-have-to-ask-anybody provisions still in force?
|
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"See what happens when you aren’t so combative with your neighbours and actually act in good faith….
P.s the pound has risen to £1.20 against the dollar…..
Excellent, I am in New York in 3 weeks "
More evidence of the lowest living standards in 40 years?  |
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"Short answer, no.
Because the DUP will never accept a Sinn Fein first minister in NI!
The protocol is a smokescreen!
Do you think he can force it through parliament "
'Force' it through? It'll fly through with Labour support |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Short answer, no.
Because the DUP will never accept a Sinn Fein first minister in NI!
The protocol is a smokescreen!
Do you think he can force it through parliament
'Force' it through? It'll fly through with Labour support "
He will need labours support on this one |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"See what happens when you aren’t so combative with your neighbours and actually act in good faith….
P.s the pound has risen to £1.20 against the dollar…..
Excellent, I am in New York in 3 weeks
More evidence of the lowest living standards in 40 years? "
Pound to the dollar was at 1.5 in 2009 & 2010 |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed .
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue."
I sincerely hope you’re right and there’s no stupid stuff from the right wing or Labour.
It’s not a time for games.
I do hope Sunak can steer us towards grown up government. Raab and Braverman out next please .
Anyway can we join EFTA please as it looks like fun!  |
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"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed .
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue.
I sincerely hope you’re right and there’s no stupid stuff from the right wing or Labour.
It’s not a time for games.
I do hope Sunak can steer us towards grown up government. Raab and Braverman out next please .
Anyway can we join EFTA please as it looks like fun! "
EFTA would be the best of both worlds maybe?
Leavers aren't in the EU and the countrybcan still benefit from free trade and free movement.
I'd take that today, regardless of costs. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Short answer, no.
Because the DUP will never accept a Sinn Fein first minister in NI!
The protocol is a smokescreen!
Do you think he can force it through parliament
The labour votes will help  "
Tbh, does it need to go through Parliament?? |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed .
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue.
I sincerely hope you’re right and there’s no stupid stuff from the right wing or Labour.
It’s not a time for games.
I do hope Sunak can steer us towards grown up government. Raab and Braverman out next please .
Anyway can we join EFTA please as it looks like fun!
EFTA would be the best of both worlds maybe?
Leavers aren't in the EU and the countrybcan still benefit from free trade and free movement.
I'd take that today, regardless of costs."
EFTA surely unacceptable.
We pay for access to the market and take all regulations with no say.
After the arguments for economic benefits of Brexit dried up, the next line is that nobody expected any economic benefits. What was important was "sovereignty". This would not be that.
If the arguments for something are nonsensical you end up arguing against benefits too.
It may be possible in a decade or so. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works "
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem. |
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"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed .
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue.
I sincerely hope you’re right and there’s no stupid stuff from the right wing or Labour.
It’s not a time for games.
I do hope Sunak can steer us towards grown up government. Raab and Braverman out next please .
Anyway can we join EFTA please as it looks like fun!
EFTA would be the best of both worlds maybe?
Leavers aren't in the EU and the countrybcan still benefit from free trade and free movement.
I'd take that today, regardless of costs.
EFTA surely unacceptable.
We pay for access to the market and take all regulations with no say.
After the arguments for economic benefits of Brexit dried up, the next line is that nobody expected any economic benefits. What was important was "sovereignty". This would not be that.
If the arguments for something are nonsensical you end up arguing against benefits too.
It may be possible in a decade or so."
Are you telling me that EFTA isn't a vast improvement on what we have now? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed .
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue.
I sincerely hope you’re right and there’s no stupid stuff from the right wing or Labour.
It’s not a time for games.
I do hope Sunak can steer us towards grown up government. Raab and Braverman out next please .
Anyway can we join EFTA please as it looks like fun!
EFTA would be the best of both worlds maybe?
Leavers aren't in the EU and the countrybcan still benefit from free trade and free movement.
I'd take that today, regardless of costs.
EFTA surely unacceptable.
We pay for access to the market and take all regulations with no say.
After the arguments for economic benefits of Brexit dried up, the next line is that nobody expected any economic benefits. What was important was "sovereignty". This would not be that.
If the arguments for something are nonsensical you end up arguing against benefits too.
It may be possible in a decade or so."
To sell in the EU we have to follow their rules . I don’t see a problem as what rules are negative for the people of this country? |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem."
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too |
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"So Northern Ireland is effectively in EFTA without having to pay for the privilege?
How terrible for them.
I don't think that it has to be confirmed with a vote if it does not require new legislation.
Win for Sunak and the UK, and EU.
What's the downside?"
Can we have EFTA for all the rest of us now please? With a side order of those sunlit uplands that we were all promised? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Credit to Sunak and his team if they pull this off .
I can see rabid right wing detractors in the Tory party trying to dismantle it but looks to be the best of both worlds for NI so good for them.
Devil in the detail so fingers crossed .
I genuinely don't think he needs to worry about those 'rabid right-wingers', if the deal works and is good enough, Labour and others will help it pass. Cross party alliance is long overdue.
I sincerely hope you’re right and there’s no stupid stuff from the right wing or Labour.
It’s not a time for games.
I do hope Sunak can steer us towards grown up government. Raab and Braverman out next please .
Anyway can we join EFTA please as it looks like fun!
EFTA would be the best of both worlds maybe?
Leavers aren't in the EU and the countrybcan still benefit from free trade and free movement.
I'd take that today, regardless of costs.
EFTA surely unacceptable.
We pay for access to the market and take all regulations with no say.
After the arguments for economic benefits of Brexit dried up, the next line is that nobody expected any economic benefits. What was important was "sovereignty". This would not be that.
If the arguments for something are nonsensical you end up arguing against benefits too.
It may be possible in a decade or so.
Are you telling me that EFTA isn't a vast improvement on what we have now?"
No.
I think that the EU is a vast improvement on EFTA, especially on the terms that we had.
However, it seems that many, many people did not.
I'm just outlining the inexplicable "logic" of how we got to where we are now. |
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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"EFTA surely unacceptable. We pay for access to the market and take all regulations with no say"
Yup, pretty much. And I wouldn't be surprised if it cost more than the 9 billion per annum net we were paying into the EU pot for free movement of goods, people and capital (the Commission reckoned 8.5 billion, our own ONS said 9.5 billion, let's not quibble). |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too"
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years. |
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"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years."
If the adults are in control? Good grief that's pathetic |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
If the adults are in control? Good grief that's pathetic "
Brexit really has been pathetic up to now.
As are your unedifying comments.
You seem to have nothing to add except personal insults. Shame on you. |
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By *ild_oatsMan
over a year ago
the land of saints & sinners |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years."
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe…. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe…. "
We are where we are.
At least we are finally addressing reality and stepping forwards. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We might finally be at the point where so many voters are fed up of all things Brexit that the ERG goes with the tide and lets this deal through. Not so sure the DUP will go along with it, though. Guess time will tell. |
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"And Johnson's still hovering on the fringe, ready to fling shit if he thinks it might get him back into power. Hopefully he'll fail."
How to spoil an historic moment. All sides will hopefully get behind the deal for the sake of Northern Ireland, Steve Baker is endorsing it, even Jeffrey Donaldson and Sammy Wilson seem to recognise progress has been made.
Maybe Boris and the ERG still have some concerns about the deal. They can air them. It's not 'flinging shit' to have a different opinion to you and air it.
I very much doubt Boris is coming back, you can sleep soundly til 2 in the afternoon still. When it's moved, it's moved - haven't you herd? |
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"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe…. "
Britain’s worst Prime Minister in recent times was Gordon Brown. He ridiculed Labour voters, like Gillian Duffy, as 'racists' and 'bigots' for simply airing concerns that he was continuing Blair's policy of waving millions of people into the UK unchecked. David Cameron could see the resultant rise of UKIP and held a referendum. He, the EU and the metropolitan elite here got a surprise bloody nose delivered by millions of ordinary Labour and Conservative voters, rather than the 'lunatic' right or Farage supporters.
The EU could have avoided it all but they gave Cameron diddly squat.
That 2016 win alone has been so deliciously satisfying to many Leave voters, they'll die happy. I know one who won't change her Sky box because she loves playing that June 2016 victory night over and over again, particularly relishing the tears of the Remainers who looked stunned and shell-shocked. She's in her 70s and try as I might, I can't get her to move on and see things a little more dispassionately.
You don't know her, do you? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe….
Britain’s worst Prime Minister in recent times was Gordon Brown. He ridiculed Labour voters, like Gillian Duffy, as 'racists' and 'bigots' for simply airing concerns that he was continuing Blair's policy of waving millions of people into the UK unchecked. David Cameron could see the resultant rise of UKIP and held a referendum. He, the EU and the metropolitan elite here got a surprise bloody nose delivered by millions of ordinary Labour and Conservative voters, rather than the 'lunatic' right or Farage supporters.
The EU could have avoided it all but they gave Cameron diddly squat.
That 2016 win alone has been so deliciously satisfying to many Leave voters, they'll die happy. I know one who won't change her Sky box because she loves playing that June 2016 victory night over and over again, particularly relishing the tears of the Remainers who looked stunned and shell-shocked. She's in her 70s and try as I might, I can't get her to move on and see things a little more dispassionately.
You don't know her, do you? "
The poor women, dementia is cruel |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
So after my initial hopeful reaction.
It’s more complicated rules wise.
It still requires extra paperwork whether green or red lanes.
The EU still have final say on rules with a “brake “ option that can stop but not change anything.
We still have a border down the Irish Sea.
Not really earth shattering changes but there can’t be as long as we don’t want a border in Ireland.
On a positive some goods can flow easier after extra paperwork. I can see delays there if they don’t go fully automated with preferred traders. This will all inevitably add costs and further complications to administer for the border forces.
What a shame Boris and his Brexiteers didn’t think this through.
Brexit the gift that keeps making life more and more difficult. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe….
Britain’s worst Prime Minister in recent times was Gordon Brown. He ridiculed Labour voters, like Gillian Duffy, as 'racists' and 'bigots' for simply airing concerns that he was continuing Blair's policy of waving millions of people into the UK unchecked. David Cameron could see the resultant rise of UKIP and held a referendum. He, the EU and the metropolitan elite here got a surprise bloody nose delivered by millions of ordinary Labour and Conservative voters, rather than the 'lunatic' right or Farage supporters.
The EU could have avoided it all but they gave Cameron diddly squat.
That 2016 win alone has been so deliciously satisfying to many Leave voters, they'll die happy. I know one who won't change her Sky box because she loves playing that June 2016 victory night over and over again, particularly relishing the tears of the Remainers who looked stunned and shell-shocked. She's in her 70s and try as I might, I can't get her to move on and see things a little more dispassionately.
You don't know her, do you? "
Brown was worse than Johnson and Truss?
Your view of the world is an interesting one. Pretty politically coloured, but you think that John Major Nd Ken Clarke are "lefty"
As the UK already had the best deal within the EU, what exactly is it that they should have "given" Cameron? What was actually wanted? Do you even know what the demands were and to what end? What was the problem with what was offered?
You do regularly offer your opinion on matters that you haven't thought much about though and get upset when asked to explain any logic associated with it.
You seem to be indicating that those who voted for Brexit did so out of vindictiveness.
That's rather sad, don't you think? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe….
Britain’s worst Prime Minister in recent times was Gordon Brown. He ridiculed Labour voters, like Gillian Duffy, as 'racists' and 'bigots' for simply airing concerns that he was continuing Blair's policy of waving millions of people into the UK unchecked. David Cameron could see the resultant rise of UKIP and held a referendum. He, the EU and the metropolitan elite here got a surprise bloody nose delivered by millions of ordinary Labour and Conservative voters, rather than the 'lunatic' right or Farage supporters.
The EU could have avoided it all but they gave Cameron diddly squat.
That 2016 win alone has been so deliciously satisfying to many Leave voters, they'll die happy. I know one who won't change her Sky box because she loves playing that June 2016 victory night over and over again, particularly relishing the tears of the Remainers who looked stunned and shell-shocked. She's in her 70s and try as I might, I can't get her to move on and see things a little more dispassionately.
You don't know her, do you? "
Being amused by and “relishing” other people’s grief or despair! Sounds like a lovely lady.
Anyway...
The biggest flaw IMHO on both sides was the lack of positive campaigning. It was all about the negative. It was also somehow positioned as a competition with a winner and loser. It should have been an informed debate with honest facts not spurious claims and hyperbole.
Some in the Remain camp ridiculed Brexiters as thick. Some in the Leave camp ridiculed Remainers as scared of change and anti-patriotic. The whole binary tribalist approach was exacerbated by two things:
1. A single stage binary referendum. There needed to be an up front commitment to hold a second referendum if the outcome was Leave to determine what the new relationship was going to be.
2. Social Media.
Anyway, the spitefulness of this lady in her 70s just shows the viciousness is alive and well. No wonder people can’t just accept and move on! |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"So after my initial hopeful reaction.
It’s more complicated rules wise.
It still requires extra paperwork whether green or red lanes.
The EU still have final say on rules with a “brake “ option that can stop but not change anything.
We still have a border down the Irish Sea.
Not really earth shattering changes but there can’t be as long as we don’t want a border in Ireland.
On a positive some goods can flow easier after extra paperwork. I can see delays there if they don’t go fully automated with preferred traders. This will all inevitably add costs and further complications to administer for the border forces.
What a shame Boris and his Brexiteers didn’t think this through.
Brexit the gift that keeps making life more and more difficult. "
You appear to have hit the nail on the head, same rules slightly different enforcement of the Irish sea border.
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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
And no mention yet of the pressure on us from the USA?
The GFA itself only came about because of Blair/Clinton, and it was pretty obvious to me that in a US election year this issue would have be "settled" before its anniversary. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years.
None of this would have been necessary if Britain’s worst Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave in to the lunatic right of the ERG and Farageists and held a referendum that ultimately resulted in an act of economic self harm. That has no tangible benefits apart from Blue passport’s that are made in Europe….
Britain’s worst Prime Minister in recent times was Gordon Brown. He ridiculed Labour voters, like Gillian Duffy, as 'racists' and 'bigots' for simply airing concerns that he was continuing Blair's policy of waving millions of people into the UK unchecked. David Cameron could see the resultant rise of UKIP and held a referendum. He, the EU and the metropolitan elite here got a surprise bloody nose delivered by millions of ordinary Labour and Conservative voters, rather than the 'lunatic' right or Farage supporters.
The EU could have avoided it all but they gave Cameron diddly squat.
That 2016 win alone has been so deliciously satisfying to many Leave voters, they'll die happy. I know one who won't change her Sky box because she loves playing that June 2016 victory night over and over again, particularly relishing the tears of the Remainers who looked stunned and shell-shocked. She's in her 70s and try as I might, I can't get her to move on and see things a little more dispassionately.
You don't know her, do you?
Being amused by and “relishing” other people’s grief or despair! Sounds like a lovely lady.
Anyway...
The biggest flaw IMHO on both sides was the lack of positive campaigning. It was all about the negative. It was also somehow positioned as a competition with a winner and loser. It should have been an informed debate with honest facts not spurious claims and hyperbole.
Some in the Remain camp ridiculed Brexiters as thick. Some in the Leave camp ridiculed Remainers as scared of change and anti-patriotic. The whole binary tribalist approach was exacerbated by two things:
1. A single stage binary referendum. There needed to be an up front commitment to hold a second referendum if the outcome was Leave to determine what the new relationship was going to be.
2. Social Media.
Anyway, the spitefulness of this lady in her 70s just shows the viciousness is alive and well. No wonder people can’t just accept and move on!"
I have a feeling this woman doesn’t exist |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Hes done well to do the deal now it remains to be seen if it has the affect its intended to have.
"
I agree he has done well and softened the relationship with the EU too in the process.
I’m just thinking laterally and it feels that we’ve just put sparkly sprinkles on a turd!!
I know I’m being negative and I’m sorry about that but it’s just it appears to be more of the same painted in a prettier colour.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Fingers crossed a good step forward. Let’s hope it isn’t derailed by ERG and DUP.
Although Rishi Sunak saying that NI is the “world’s most exciting economic zone" because of having access to both GB and EU markets is bloody ironic and on the nose!
He said this "very special position" makes it an "incredibly attractive" place to invest.
That was of course the status the entire UK had before Brexit!!! For many companies the UK was the doorway to the EU. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
What I'm not 100% sure on is the Stormont brake..
Whatever the changes the EU were thinking of implementing in terms of goods regulations can be stopped, but it needs Westminster to negotiate and it will only be seen as an emergency brake by the EU.
This part of the agreement doesn't seem well thought out to me, unless I have misunderstood the clause. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
The UK is increasingly a rather absurd country though isn’t it?
We are starting to celebrate the tidy up job done by a Prime Minister who voted for the botch job he’s now fixing!
The result/prize is the status we had when we were in the EU, but for Northern Ireland only!!! |
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Does anyone honestly think this is about anything other than a Sinn Fein first minister.
DUP says no, it’s all they will say, and as long as there is a chance of a first minister in NI, they will only say no!!
And worse again, a woman!!
Those dinosaurs have no interest in anything other than returning NI to the 1950s |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And Johnson's still hovering on the fringe, ready to fling shit if he thinks it might get him back into power. Hopefully he'll fail.
How to spoil an historic moment. All sides will hopefully get behind the deal for the sake of Northern Ireland, Steve Baker is endorsing it, even Jeffrey Donaldson and Sammy Wilson seem to recognise progress has been made.
Maybe Boris and the ERG still have some concerns about the deal. They can air them. It's not 'flinging shit' to have a different opinion to you and air it.
I very much doubt Boris is coming back, you can sleep soundly til 2 in the afternoon still. When it's moved, it's moved - haven't you herd? "
Are you really naive enough to think Johnson acts out of concern for anything other than himself?
I doubt he'll succeed in coming back too. I think he's fucked over & pissed off too many people at this point. But he really would fling enough shit to bury the world if he thought it would benefit him. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave… |
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"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave… "
If it's good enough for them, let's all be granted the same.. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave…
If it's good enough for them, let's all be granted the same.. "
And because every in Northern Ireland is entitled to an Irish passport… they keep all that freedom of movement stuff as well…. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave… "
You didn’t feel the need to acknowledge my post on the same topic though?  |
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"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave…
If it's good enough for them, let's all be granted the same..
And because every in Northern Ireland is entitled to an Irish passport… they keep all that freedom of movement stuff as well…. "
Win/win.. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Only seen a brief overview of the deal but so far so good. Considering this started with the EU saying no renegotiation is going to happen it seems to have come a long way. On the face of it I think Sunak has got a lot of what he wanted but there could be a sting in the tail yet. Certainly hope it works
You are framing this in turns of winning and losing.
That is rather the problem.
More shock (pleasant) on my part to see the change. I have not heard anything on the ECJ as yet and think this was important to certain parties like the DUP. I'm hoping there is some sort of wording or compromise that alleviates the DUP concerns over this. What's been changed from the original protocol seems substantial so hope it is not scuppered. If all is well I think this helps solve the horizon project problems too
The difference between thinking that you are in control and that "they need us more than we need them" and realising that it's all a bit harder than you thought.
If the adults are finally in control, then perhaps a lot can be resolved.
Finally something being recovered from six lost years."
It's certainly good to have good news on NI for a change after lots of negative times. Seems industry are by and large in favour of it as according to them importing goods from GB will be so much simpler. As EU law only covers 3% of NI rules I'm hoping the DUP can see past that to the bigger prize |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave…
If it's good enough for them, let's all be granted the same..
And because every in Northern Ireland is entitled to an Irish passport… they keep all that freedom of movement stuff as well…. "
. ,, ,,, ,, one of my favourite Brexit interviews , listening to Stephen Nolan on BBC Radio5 ,interviewing Andrew Bridgen ,with Bridgen saying everyone in England could apply for an Irish Passport , they broke for the news and Bridgen wasn't there after the news |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave… "
It was rather incredible hearing Sunak talk up this situation where Northern Ireland can have access to the UK & EU markets. Talking about how wonderful it was for investment opportunities too.
Hmmm so access to the EU market is a wonderful thing? Like the thing we used to have here?
It's almost as if Brexit is & always was fucking shit. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave…
It was rather incredible hearing Sunak talk up this situation where Northern Ireland can have access to the UK & EU markets. Talking about how wonderful it was for investment opportunities too.
Hmmm so access to the EU market is a wonderful thing? Like the thing we used to have here?
It's almost as if Brexit is & always was fucking shit."
. ,, ,, I think it is the first time I have agreed with a Prime Minister on the subject of The E.U. since Brexit , in fairness to Sunak I think he explained the benefits of E.U. Membership rather well . :.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Did make me laugh though when sunak said that Northern Ireland got the best of both worlds since NI got the advantages of the EU market whilst still being in the UK…
Erm… and there all this time leave meant leave…
It was rather incredible hearing Sunak talk up this situation where Northern Ireland can have access to the UK & EU markets. Talking about how wonderful it was for investment opportunities too.
Hmmm so access to the EU market is a wonderful thing? Like the thing we used to have here?
It's almost as if Brexit is & always was fucking shit.. ,, ,, I think it is the first time I have agreed with a Prime Minister on the subject of The E.U. since Brexit , in fairness to Sunak I think he explained the benefits of E.U. Membership rather well . :.. "
lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Tis true Northern Ireland is going to end up as one of the wealthiest part of the UK, just because it’s most direct link to the EU.
Our next stop is EFTA, I think Sunak knows that the vast majority of Brexit supporters were not brexit ultras. They just wanted less interference from Brussels, but wanted to maintain strong trading links with Europe.
Good thing about Sunak is he is a pragmatist, he knows a thing or two about the economy, and what benefits the UK is trade with Europe in the first instance and re establishing our financial credibility to the rest of the world.
Let’s hope he can do that. |
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What will happen now is Northern Ireland will declare war on England, Scotland and Wales who will capitulate without a shot being fired. Then the whole of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can enjoy the same terms.
Magic politics!  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Tis true Northern Ireland is going to end up as one of the wealthiest part of the UK, just because it’s most direct link to the EU.
Our next stop is EFTA, I think Sunak knows that the vast majority of Brexit supporters were not brexit ultras. They just wanted less interference from Brussels, but wanted to maintain strong trading links with Europe.
Good thing about Sunak is he is a pragmatist, he knows a thing or two about the economy, and what benefits the UK is trade with Europe in the first instance and re establishing our financial credibility to the rest of the world.
Let’s hope he can do that."
A pragmatic solution to Brexit would have been to negotiate a slightly better version of EFTA or at least EFTA itself.
However, the winners of the referendum had no plan, no were they magnanimous or realistic in victory.
We had to go through the failure to accept the reality. We are approaching that now through Sunak. I think Labour will take a similar view, even though they seem to feel that they need to maintain some level of pro-Brexit rhetoric.
Still years away though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At PMQs the SNP demanded 'special' Brexit status for Scotland. LOL
"
Can we have special Brexit status in England too? Since Sunak has been talking up how wonderful this new arrangement is. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"At PMQs the SNP demanded 'special' Brexit status for Scotland. LOL
London and the City will expect the same...
And as an argumentative type what do you want "
As a considered opinion, EFTA membership. Unlikely on better terms than anyone else because of the bed that we have made and if we can put aside the jingoistic no sense about "swashbuckling" global trade. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"When are you going to stand for election?you clearly think you have all the answers so let's see if a majority of voters agree"
I civily answered your question.
Well done on your response. Very adult |
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"When are you going to stand for election?you clearly think you have all the answers so let's see if a majority of voters agree
I civily answered your question.
Well done on your response. Very adult "
Thank you |
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"When are you going to stand for election?you clearly think you have all the answers so let's see if a majority of voters agree"
Voters would be bewildered. They would ask a question and get at least 7 back |
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"When are you going to stand for election?you clearly think you have all the answers so let's see if a majority of voters agree
Voters would be bewildered. They would ask a question and get at least 7 back "
Don't upset him now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When are you going to stand for election?you clearly think you have all the answers so let's see if a majority of voters agree
Voters would be bewildered. They would ask a question and get at least 7 back
Don't upset him now "
you want to make friendly wager on that? |
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