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The Irish Border
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences. |
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"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences."
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’ |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’"
But the DUP want that land border back and they never supported the Good Friday Agreement.
Listening to the ERG mouthpieces recently and they seem to be agreeing very much with the DUP rhetoric albeit not quite yet saying out loud that the land border has to return. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’
But the DUP want that land border back and they never supported the Good Friday Agreement.
Listening to the ERG mouthpieces recently and they seem to be agreeing very much with the DUP rhetoric albeit not quite yet saying out loud that the land border has to return."
The DUP don't want the border back period.
There is no need for a land border or a sea border it's all about bravado especially with the CONservative government in their land of make believe that brexit is good.
There is no point making up crap that's not true
They will also sit in an executive with a SF first minister
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’"
Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937,
.... The name of the State is Éire
Ie the republic |
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"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences."
Oh FFS, this is your best "what if " post yet  |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’"
There are significant elements within the DUP who salivate at the prospect of a hard border with the Republic of Ireland. It is the one thing that with absolute certainty would further the very principles of unionism. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Oh FFS, this is your best "what if " post yet "
I can't wait for tomorrow, it is going to be a belter  |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Oh FFS, this is your best "what if " post yet
I can't wait for tomorrow, it is going to be a belter "
Some people have the intelligence and wherewithal to offer opinions and engage in debate.
Others are somewhat lacking in t such attributes. |
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"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Oh FFS, this is your best "what if " post yet
I can't wait for tomorrow, it is going to be a belter
Some people have the intelligence and wherewithal to offer opinions and engage in debate.
Others are somewhat lacking in t such attributes."
Intelligence and wherewithal aren't really your strongest attributes are they?
I mean, we are all just waiting for you to tie this into a "Brexit Benifit" post.  |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Oh FFS, this is your best "what if " post yet
I can't wait for tomorrow, it is going to be a belter
Some people have the intelligence and wherewithal to offer opinions and engage in debate.
Others are somewhat lacking in t such attributes."
.
Such was Hans Christian Andersen with his fairytales lol |
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What a lot of people in the UK need to realise is that most of this is just a charade. The DUP/ERG are just self-serving groups involved in politics to lobby for their own financial interests.
The likes of Johnson and Truss were totally unfit to be PMs. Johnsons tenure was a circus, and Truss was weeks away from collapsing the worlds bond market.
The EU and US have been waiting for a long time for the British to finally put an adult in the room. Things might just move along under Sunak.
Expect the usual noise and fanfare, but things will move along, as origionally planned. |
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"Its not an Irish Border
It's a UK Border in Ireland "
It's both. It's where the UK ends and becomes Ireland if your traveling one way, and it's where Ireland ends and becomes the UK if you're traveling the other way.
It's the UK border, and the Irish border, both at the same time. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’
There are significant elements within the DUP who salivate at the prospect of a hard border with the Republic of Ireland. It is the one thing that with absolute certainty would further the very principles of unionism."
Is the return of a land border one of their seven tests for supporting a new protocol |
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"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’
Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937,
.... The name of the State is Éire
Ie the republic "
Constitution notwithstanding, and taking into account who actually wrote the Constitution (and his place in Irish history) there are generations of Irish people who would most likely like to beat the crap out of someone who suggested that Ireland or indeed Eire consisted of only 26 counties.
Have a read of the Good Friday Agreement and you’ll find that it was only in 1998 that we relinquished naming Ireland as ‘including the 6 counties’
As for ‘Eire’ the only people who seems to use it are the English, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone from Ireland when asked ‘where are you from ?’ to say ‘Eire’
As to the actual meaning of the word ‘Eire’, how it’s spelt, and it’s correct place or usage in the Irish language... well that’s a completely different kettle of fish altogether.
As for the protocol, I’m in the motor trade, I recently bought an engine from England, which was shipped to NI and then sent on down to the Republic. No extra charges, as this is how the protocol works. The only difference being, pre Brexit it would have been shipped directly from England to the Republic.
The DUP cannot seem to grasp this simple fact that not a lot has changed apart from some inconvenience with delivery times.
|
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"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’
Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937,
.... The name of the State is Éire
Ie the republic
Constitution notwithstanding, and taking into account who actually wrote the Constitution (and his place in Irish history) there are generations of Irish people who would most likely like to beat the crap out of someone who suggested that Ireland or indeed Eire consisted of only 26 counties.
Have a read of the Good Friday Agreement and you’ll find that it was only in 1998 that we relinquished naming Ireland as ‘including the 6 counties’
As for ‘Eire’ the only people who seems to use it are the English, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone from Ireland when asked ‘where are you from ?’ to say ‘Eire’
As to the actual meaning of the word ‘Eire’, how it’s spelt, and it’s correct place or usage in the Irish language... well that’s a completely different kettle of fish altogether.
As for the protocol, I’m in the motor trade, I recently bought an engine from England, which was shipped to NI and then sent on down to the Republic. No extra charges, as this is how the protocol works. The only difference being, pre Brexit it would have been shipped directly from England to the Republic.
The DUP cannot seem to grasp this simple fact that not a lot has changed apart from some inconvenience with delivery times.
"
You don't understand the position of the DUP |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’
Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937,
.... The name of the State is Éire
Ie the republic
Constitution notwithstanding, and taking into account who actually wrote the Constitution (and his place in Irish history) there are generations of Irish people who would most likely like to beat the crap out of someone who suggested that Ireland or indeed Eire consisted of only 26 counties.
Have a read of the Good Friday Agreement and you’ll find that it was only in 1998 that we relinquished naming Ireland as ‘including the 6 counties’
As for ‘Eire’ the only people who seems to use it are the English, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone from Ireland when asked ‘where are you from ?’ to say ‘Eire’
As to the actual meaning of the word ‘Eire’, how it’s spelt, and it’s correct place or usage in the Irish language... well that’s a completely different kettle of fish altogether.
As for the protocol, I’m in the motor trade, I recently bought an engine from England, which was shipped to NI and then sent on down to the Republic. No extra charges, as this is how the protocol works. The only difference being, pre Brexit it would have been shipped directly from England to the Republic.
The DUP cannot seem to grasp this simple fact that not a lot has changed apart from some inconvenience with delivery times.
You don't understand the position of the DUP "
Nor the position of the people in Northern Ireland who can't order stuff from Amazon and eBay from England or even China that was easy before brexshit
AliExpress won't deliver to NI but will deliver the same product to GB and ROI go fkn figure that one !! |
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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"Do we think that the ERG will fall in line fully behind the DUP and admit openly and honestly that it is time to resurrect a border between N Ireland and Eire?
I mean this is what all this is really about isn't it? The DUP are on their way out demographically, they won't sit with a Sinn Fein First Minister, and their only way of retaining long-term relevance is if N Ireland is fully ostracised again from Eire and bugger the other consequences.
Firstly, ‘Eire’ is the whole island, the bit you are talking about is the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, if there is a land border between North and South then it contravenes the whole point of the Good Friday agreement which ended 20 years of bloody war, on both sides and on the British mainland, so I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.
And thirdly, at some point in time, the DUP, like every spoiled brat, has to learn to say ‘yes’"
Mate you fall under the illusion the ERG give two flying fooks about the GFA.
Any killings or violence would not be in their doorstep, merely seen as local issues whilst they roll on having a toss over the British Empire and stuffing their off shore accounts with cash. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What a lot of people in the UK need to realise is that most of this is just a charade. The DUP/ERG are just self-serving groups involved in politics to lobby for their own financial interests.
The likes of Johnson and Truss were totally unfit to be PMs. Johnsons tenure was a circus, and Truss was weeks away from collapsing the worlds bond market.
The EU and US have been waiting for a long time for the British to finally put an adult in the room. Things might just move along under Sunak.
Expect the usual noise and fanfare, but things will move along, as origionally planned."
I think that this is a reasonable assessment.
Grown-ups coming up with a workable compromise.
That was, actually, that Teresa May was trying to do, but the timing wasn't right.
Some of the consequences of the Brexit decision to play out before this could happen.
One consequence of the DUP actions is that a region of the UK that voted to remain in the EU has also been denied it's own government by a party opposing the majority view there.
It's complicated, but ultimately is about party politics and power games not the betterment of the population. |
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"Its not an Irish Border
It's a UK Border in Ireland
It's both. It's where the UK ends and becomes Ireland if your traveling one way, and it's where Ireland ends and becomes the UK if you're traveling the other way.
It's the UK border, and the Irish border, both at the same time."
Exactly this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times  "
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds "
Reading through the Sunday newspapers today and this coming week really does seem to have the makings of being a really important moment for Sunak, for Johnson, for the ERG, and for the DUP.
Sam Coates is suggesting that Sunak is staking his Premiership on this by pressing ahead with or without ERG and DUP approval and is calculating that their time is up and most in Parliament will want to move on pragmatically.
How that will leave things in NI with the Assembly is anyone’s guess unless part of this deal involves some kind of poll or election in the North.
Then again, we may instead be in for our third Conservative Leadership election process and our fourth Prime Minister in the space of 12 months. And to think we used to laugh at unstable tinpot Governments elsewhere when they couldn’t vote in a leader who could command authority.
Sigh….. Brexit is giving us all so, so much. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds
Reading through the Sunday newspapers today and this coming week really does seem to have the makings of being a really important moment for Sunak, for Johnson, for the ERG, and for the DUP.
Sam Coates is suggesting that Sunak is staking his Premiership on this by pressing ahead with or without ERG and DUP approval and is calculating that their time is up and most in Parliament will want to move on pragmatically.
How that will leave things in NI with the Assembly is anyone’s guess unless part of this deal involves some kind of poll or election in the North.
Then again, we may instead be in for our third Conservative Leadership election process and our fourth Prime Minister in the space of 12 months. And to think we used to laugh at unstable tinpot Governments elsewhere when they couldn’t vote in a leader who could command authority.
Sigh….. Brexit is giving us all so, so much."
We have found a Brexit benefit, it is destroying the Tory party |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
The ERG don’t care about Northern Ireland.. they just care about leaving the EU and the Northern Ireland border mess is just collateral damage!
I don’t get that people say stuff the GFA when it’s the instrument that has provided the greatest amount of peace and stability over the last 25 years… |
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"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds "
I hope so too I think he will. Getting all sides to sign on the dotted line would be a serious political coup for him. It would help him sell the idea that he’s the can-do prime minister, succeeding where his predecessors – May, Johnson, and (rather briefly) Truss – failed. |
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"Put the land border back where it was an let the eu look after it. They can stuff the gfa where the sun don't shine "
That's not going to happen.
Considerable credit to Tony Blair for one of the finest achievements of his first term, after John Major laid the groundwork
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"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds
Reading through the Sunday newspapers today and this coming week really does seem to have the makings of being a really important moment for Sunak, for Johnson, for the ERG, and for the DUP.
Sam Coates is suggesting that Sunak is staking his Premiership on this by pressing ahead with or without ERG and DUP approval and is calculating that their time is up and most in Parliament will want to move on pragmatically.
How that will leave things in NI with the Assembly is anyone’s guess unless part of this deal involves some kind of poll or election in the North.
Then again, we may instead be in for our third Conservative Leadership election process and our fourth Prime Minister in the space of 12 months. And to think we used to laugh at unstable tinpot Governments elsewhere when they couldn’t vote in a leader who could command authority.
Sigh….. Brexit is giving us all so, so much.
We have found a Brexit benefit, it is destroying the Tory party "
That's not happening either. Any more than I believed Johnson's victory in 2019 would destroy the Labour Party. |
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"The ERG don’t care about Northern Ireland.. they just care about leaving the EU and the Northern Ireland border mess is just collateral damage!
I don’t get that people say stuff the GFA when it’s the instrument that has provided the greatest amount of peace and stability over the last 25 years…"
The final paragraph above I wholeheartedly agree with. It's a pity the post is spoiled by the first paragraph which is not the case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds
Reading through the Sunday newspapers today and this coming week really does seem to have the makings of being a really important moment for Sunak, for Johnson, for the ERG, and for the DUP.
Sam Coates is suggesting that Sunak is staking his Premiership on this by pressing ahead with or without ERG and DUP approval and is calculating that their time is up and most in Parliament will want to move on pragmatically.
How that will leave things in NI with the Assembly is anyone’s guess unless part of this deal involves some kind of poll or election in the North.
Then again, we may instead be in for our third Conservative Leadership election process and our fourth Prime Minister in the space of 12 months. And to think we used to laugh at unstable tinpot Governments elsewhere when they couldn’t vote in a leader who could command authority.
Sigh….. Brexit is giving us all so, so much.
We have found a Brexit benefit, it is destroying the Tory party
That's not happening either. Any more than I believed Johnson's victory in 2019 would destroy the Labour Party. "
Let’s wait and see, I hope Sunak is tough enough to stand up to those opposing his deal, if not, they will tear each other apart |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds
Reading through the Sunday newspapers today and this coming week really does seem to have the makings of being a really important moment for Sunak, for Johnson, for the ERG, and for the DUP.
Sam Coates is suggesting that Sunak is staking his Premiership on this by pressing ahead with or without ERG and DUP approval and is calculating that their time is up and most in Parliament will want to move on pragmatically.
How that will leave things in NI with the Assembly is anyone’s guess unless part of this deal involves some kind of poll or election in the North.
Then again, we may instead be in for our third Conservative Leadership election process and our fourth Prime Minister in the space of 12 months. And to think we used to laugh at unstable tinpot Governments elsewhere when they couldn’t vote in a leader who could command authority.
Sigh….. Brexit is giving us all so, so much.
We have found a Brexit benefit, it is destroying the Tory party
That's not happening either. Any more than I believed Johnson's victory in 2019 would destroy the Labour Party. "
You might be surprised. Arguments over Europe have finished off most of the most recent Conservative Leaders (Truss being the one who wasn’t).
The actual act of Brexit could very easily be the thing that indirectly results in sending the Conservative Party into opposition and massive restructuring. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The ERG were quite strong when Brexit was an unknown thing, people were happy to go with it can’t be bad. Two years have shown it’s not the land of milk and honey as once promised.
If Sunak can ignore the DUP and the Brexit Ultras, and actually get sorted and he gets the backing of the Right wing media, and the rest of parliament, then we can get moving forward. I suspect the markets will respond positively if he can, and in the end that is what is needed.
Stability is needed, confidence in the economy is required.
We can no longer be held to ransom by these minority interest charlatans anymore.
It’s the UK or bust. |
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"All 355 Tory MPs to be in Westminster Monday. Three line whip, ie this is a very important vote, be there, underlined 3 times
If Sunak can’t get his deal through Parliament he is finished, I really hope he succeeds
Reading through the Sunday newspapers today and this coming week really does seem to have the makings of being a really important moment for Sunak, for Johnson, for the ERG, and for the DUP.
Sam Coates is suggesting that Sunak is staking his Premiership on this by pressing ahead with or without ERG and DUP approval and is calculating that their time is up and most in Parliament will want to move on pragmatically.
How that will leave things in NI with the Assembly is anyone’s guess unless part of this deal involves some kind of poll or election in the North.
Then again, we may instead be in for our third Conservative Leadership election process and our fourth Prime Minister in the space of 12 months. And to think we used to laugh at unstable tinpot Governments elsewhere when they couldn’t vote in a leader who could command authority.
Sigh….. Brexit is giving us all so, so much.
We have found a Brexit benefit, it is destroying the Tory party
That's not happening either. Any more than I believed Johnson's victory in 2019 would destroy the Labour Party.
Let’s wait and see, I hope Sunak is tough enough to stand up to those opposing his deal, if not, they will tear each other apart "
I think he will stand up to potential wreckers but yes, it could get messy. |
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?"
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news? |
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"The ERG were quite strong when Brexit was an unknown thing, people were happy to go with it can’t be bad. Two years have shown it’s not the land of milk and honey as once promised.
If Sunak can ignore the DUP and the Brexit Ultras, and actually get sorted and he gets the backing of the Right wing media, and the rest of parliament, then we can get moving forward. I suspect the markets will respond positively if he can, and in the end that is what is needed.
Stability is needed, confidence in the economy is required.
We can no longer be held to ransom by these minority interest charlatans anymore.
It’s the UK or bust."
I wholeheartedly agree with this - I particularly think the markets will definitely respond well to a good deal |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news? "
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The ERG were quite strong when Brexit was an unknown thing, people were happy to go with it can’t be bad. Two years have shown it’s not the land of milk and honey as once promised.
If Sunak can ignore the DUP and the Brexit Ultras, and actually get sorted and he gets the backing of the Right wing media, and the rest of parliament, then we can get moving forward. I suspect the markets will respond positively if he can, and in the end that is what is needed.
Stability is needed, confidence in the economy is required.
We can no longer be held to ransom by these minority interest charlatans anymore.
It’s the UK or bust.
I wholeheartedly agree with this - I particularly think the markets will definitely respond well to a good deal "
I have made it clear I am no Sunak fan but if he can pull this off then he has my respect (for this). Really hope he can. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news? "
Highest inflation for 40’years
Lowest living standards for 40 years
Millions on strike |
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers."
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'."
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story. |
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story."
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news? "
That's desperate.
Getting competitive about the vaccines that we bought and got in to legal disputes over depriving other countries? We did start quickly, but then ended up with a rollout no quicker than anywhere else. Overall positive.
Lying about PPE availability to frontline staff and spaffing billions on mates providing substandard equipment and a dysfunctional track and trace app and system.
Neutral performance at best, but the consequences of the corruption still being felt.
"Boosting" the defence budget which they cut and will take years to get back to what is required.
The Union is in more danger now than it had been for decades. More support for the SNP and independence than there has ever been, even with the current turmoil based on the SNPs own decisions.
Decimating the public sector and only then starting to re-employ inexperienced staff once its apparent that massive problems have been caused as a consequence.
Lowest unemployment and inflationary wage demands due to lack of staff. Companies unable to fulfil demand, further fuelling inflation. The highest proportion of those in the G7 who left work during lockdown and chose not to return.
As usual, what occurs to you in five minutes is ill considered. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?"
Yes.
It's the same party with allegedly the same intentions.
If not, then who the f**k are they?
Those in charge now voted for everything that caused the problems that they are now, allegedly, "fixing".
Those increased numbers of police are warning that salaries are too low (they cannot strike) and nurses are on strike. |
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
Yes.
It's the same party with allegedly the same intentions.
If not, then who the f**k are they?
Those in charge now voted for everything that caused the problems that they are now, allegedly, "fixing".
Those increased numbers of police are warning that salaries are too low (they cannot strike) and nurses are on strike."
What are those intentions?
It's like arguing that the Labour Party are the same party as when Corbyn was leader. Pretty sure you'll say its different though  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?"
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt. |
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt."
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?"
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”."
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
|
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
"
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019 "
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct."
But you stated that the ‘current’ government bares no resemblance to the government that was elected in 2019. Time for a GE |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
But you stated that the ‘current’ government bares no resemblance to the government that was elected in 2019. Time for a GE "
Not a typo, I see you twisted my words. No resemblance from Cameron, to Johnson, to Sunak.
Are you really trying to argue that Sunak is the same as Johnson |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
But you stated that the ‘current’ government bares no resemblance to the government that was elected in 2019. Time for a GE
Not a typo, I see you twisted my words. No resemblance from Cameron, to Johnson, to Sunak.
Are you really trying to argue that Sunak is the same as Johnson"
No, they are different , that is why we need a GE, |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
But you stated that the ‘current’ government bares no resemblance to the government that was elected in 2019. Time for a GE
Not a typo, I see you twisted my words. No resemblance from Cameron, to Johnson, to Sunak.
Are you really trying to argue that Sunak is the same as Johnson
No, they are different , that is why we need a GE, "
I wouldn't disagree with a GE |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
But you stated that the ‘current’ government bares no resemblance to the government that was elected in 2019. Time for a GE "
All governments evolve it is what they do when they need to move with political or world view changes.
When would your "you've changed" alert trigger a GE, a bit messy I think.. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
But you stated that the ‘current’ government bares no resemblance to the government that was elected in 2019. Time for a GE
All governments evolve it is what they do when they need to move with political or world view changes.
When would your "you've changed" alert trigger a GE, a bit messy I think.."
It is all a moot point though because the Conservatives obviously believe there is continuity as they have not called a general election.
Just perfectly illustrates how stupid and warped politics can become.
We are arguing about police numbers and whether they were axed by Conservative Govt A only to then start being increased again (but not yet back to where they were) by Conservative Govts C-E (bypassing B because none of us can actually remember). And whether this is therefore good news!
It’s like (hypothetical)... Bob’s salary was £50,000 but then CEO A (and CEO B) cut it to £40,000 but the good news is that CEO C, D and E have slowly raised it back to £48,000. Gee Bob is so lucky!!! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
Yes.
It's the same party with allegedly the same intentions.
If not, then who the f**k are they?
Those in charge now voted for everything that caused the problems that they are now, allegedly, "fixing".
Those increased numbers of police are warning that salaries are too low (they cannot strike) and nurses are on strike.
What are those intentions?
It's like arguing that the Labour Party are the same party as when Corbyn was leader. Pretty sure you'll say its different though "
It is the same party constituted by many of the same people. Like the Conservative party, is clearing up its own mess.
In the case of the Conservative party they evidently enacted the wrong policies and are clearing it up at a cost to the country and the public.
In the case of the Labour party they are clearing the mess of an election loss to themselves.
No ody in either party can claim that they had nothing to do with what came before. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"So at best, we can say this Tory government has fixed the issue caused by the previous Tory governments.
At least it's moved on from labour blaming.
"
Nah someone will be along soon to pointing to Liam Byrne’s “no money left” letter. The misunderstood trope that keeps on giving. |
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"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct."
I am
My grandmother had a chest infection in November & felt awful. 10 days strong antibiotics sorted it out.
How bewildered she looked at us when we put on our left leaning remoaining hats and said it was not great news and not to be looked at positively. We remarked she was merely back to normal, how she felt before she was infected. Nowt to be glad about. And then we blamed Brexit for the infection in the first place. As you do |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
I am
My grandmother had a chest infection in November & felt awful. 10 days strong antibiotics sorted it out.
How bewildered she looked at us when we put on our left leaning remoaining hats and said it was not great news and not to be looked at positively. We remarked she was merely back to normal, how she felt before she was infected. Nowt to be glad about. And then we blamed Brexit for the infection in the first place. As you do "
at least we can agree that the Tory governments up to 2019 were an illness on society.
I think that's what your anology is saying. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Credit to Sunak if he actually agrees an adult compromise.
He may well call the DUP and ERG's bluff.
Northern Ireland wants it's assembly and Brexit is not very popular in the rest of the country right now.
The only alternative is breaking international law and managing to screw up our trade with the EU just as it looks like we may squeeze through with the barest of recessions in the midst of strikes, a cost of living crisis and immigration panic.
Would the ERG sabotage the only piece of positive news that this Government has?
The thrust of the above is fair enough up until "the only piece of positive news that this Government has"
Rolling out the historic vaccination programme, one of the quickest in the world, delivering the long-term protection that has allowed us to unlock?
Boosting the defence budget by tens of billions, helping to create a stronger, more secure Union – better equipped for a more competitive age and an aggressive Russia. Supporting Ukraine like no other nation on earth?
Protected 11.6 million jobs through the covid furlough scheme, safeguarding livelihoods?
Lowest ever unemployment, highest ever employment, tens of thousands more nurses and police. This is what's occurred to me in 5 minutes, there'll be much more. Or do you think all of the above is negative news?
Oh Cheshire that isn’t all quite true though is it! Tens of thousand more nurses and police! That is classic gaslighting. If you reduce something by X and then increase it by Y you still have not got back to X let alone increased the numbers.
According to statista the number of police officers in 2010 was 139,771. That fell to its lowest of 117,345 in 2017.
Since Boris came to power that has risen again to 135,573 in 2022. So whilst I agree that we're not back to where we were before the Conservatives gained power, we're nearly there.
You could argue that Chesires statement was speaking about 'current good news'. I'd say nearly 20k more than 5 years ago is indeed 'good news'.
No. Getting back to where we were (but still not quite) is reductive. Cheshire’s post implies we are better off. We aren’t. We are just almost, but not quite, back to where we were. Wow what great news! Not! Apply that same logic to your income. Not gear hey?
Also if we want to get into it. The police officers and nurses lost over that period took with them years of experience. The new ones are just that, lacking in experience and needing to learn. So numbers do not tell the whole story.
I thunk you've deliberately misunderstood what I said.
'Getting back to where we were' wholly depends on when you take the figure from. You choose to take it from 13 years ago which is fair but you don't know where Cheshire took it from.
Would you actually argue that 'this Conservative governement' is the same one as in 2010?
That’s really really twisty and trixy. However, we have had a Conservative Government since 2010 (yes coalition but majority Tory) enacting their policies. If the vast majority of Tory MPs and Ministers (inc ex Ministers) are still in the Commons able to vote on policy/legislation then it is the same Govt.
It is twisty and trixy but it is the reality of it. We don't know from when Cheshire chose to compare.
I'll ask you the same as Easy, is the Labour Party the same party as when Corbyn was leader?
Feels like you are going for a gotcha moment and I am not really interested in playing.
It all comes down to whether there is a clear line of sight between the policies of previous executives and whether the majority of MPs with the power to vote in/out legislation are still the same.
Reduction in police numbers was a Tory party policy. The MPs and Ministers involved in that and perpetuating it are mostly the same people. They have now u-turned. They created the problem they are now trying to solve.
Saying Cheshire might not have meant XYZ shows why context is important when stating things as facts.
If he did mean “better than five years ago” then the response to that would be worded differently but it would still be “cleaning up their own mess”.
I'm not going for any gotcha moment. You may know, but I like a level playing field and I don't like it when people pick on one party when bot holding the same stance on another.
Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Cameron to Johnson to Sunak.
We can say 'they all voted on party policy' but we also know that they need to toe the line to further their careers.
We need to have a GE If the current government are different from what was elected in 2019
Since 2019 the numbers in the police force have increased. That's my whole point. If we're calling the current governement just since the last GE then Cheshire is indeed correct.
I am
My grandmother had a chest infection in November & felt awful. 10 days strong antibiotics sorted it out.
How bewildered she looked at us when we put on our left leaning remoaining hats and said it was not great news and not to be looked at positively. We remarked she was merely back to normal, how she felt before she was infected. Nowt to be glad about. And then we blamed Brexit for the infection in the first place. As you do "
Was the doctor who prescribed the antibiotics responsible for giving her the infection?
If not your comparison is invalid. |
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