FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Universal Healthcare

Universal Healthcare

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

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By *cottishVikingBearMan over a year ago

N. London

One of the more frustrating things is getting right-wing people to see past the end of their own nose sometimes.

The advantage of universal healthcare, along with so many other socialist ideas such as fair, inflation-linked wages and paid maternity/family leave, is that it makes for a better, healthier workforce that is more productive.

When you have a worker who is well, and who isn't having health issues, they can be more productive at work. Also sick people tend to die earlier, resulting in conpanies losing trained and skilled employees.

Same for educated employees; they're better at their jobs. Same goes for happier employees.

Exploiting the poor and keeeping them down will only work to a limited extent.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"One of the more frustrating things is getting right-wing people to see past the end of their own nose sometimes.

Same for educated employees; they're better at their jobs. Same goes for happier employees.

Exploiting the poor and keeping them down will only work to a limited extent. "
Yet I see people everyday being a determent to themselves and society because they choose to self inflict and expect everyone else to agree with thier choices . How does that justify everyone else paying for that stupidity?

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By *amantMan over a year ago

Alnmouth

Where do you draw the line? 'Ah because you smoke, you have to pay for treatment'? I no longer binge drink, or smoke socially. If I were to be diagnosed with something which could be linked to either binge drinking, or smoking, would you make me pay for treatment? Would the link have to be unquestionably clear? Given the range of different impacts both these things can have, that leaves a hell of a lot. 'You've gone impotent, ah well, you shouldn't have smoked at high school'. Where does it end?

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

Ah Blu another week another anti NHS post! Why are you so against the idea of universal healthcare funded through taxation? Why as an American does this even concern you? I believe you are ex-army and now a pharmacist right? Does the company you work for have its greedy eye focused on getting a piece of a privatised NHS pie? Does that help your share portfolio?

You obviously have private health insurance. Is that a personal plan or a company plan provides by your employer?

Here’s a scenario...

You lose your job. It takes a long time to find another job. In that period it becomes simply unaffordable to pay your health insurance (or you lost it with your job). You get ill. How you paying for healthcare?

Ok say you had enough savings or family helped out. You get a new job and can either afford a new insurance policy or the company provides one. Will they cover your now pre-existing condition? Will they cover the ongoing cost of drugs or therapy needed as a result of the illness? What if it turns out the illness was hereditary or caused by lifestyle?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't? "

If you can accept universal education so that every child gets an education, then accepting universal healthcare is not such a great leap.

A measure of how civilised your country is how you look after the young, the infirm and the old.

As it happens, the UK is failing dismally at the moment in its care for elders.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't? "

Do you think that the negatives that you perceive, outweigh the benefits?

An individual's health is as much a matter of accidents of birth or just accidents as deliberate acts.

You could ask where you draw the line at where you allow those who are not in control of their medical and mental health situation to suffer.

It's not easy, but I'm inclined to lean to being more inclusive than excluding.

What do you think?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

If you can accept universal education so that every child gets an education, then accepting universal healthcare is not such a great leap.

A measure of how civilised your country is how you look after the young, the infirm and the old.

As it happens, the UK is failing dismally at the moment in its care for elders."
Low income families get free or reduced healthcare for children up until the age of 18. Depends on the household income.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

If you can accept universal education so that every child gets an education, then accepting universal healthcare is not such a great leap.

A measure of how civilised your country is how you look after the young, the infirm and the old.

As it happens, the UK is failing dismally at the moment in its care for elders. Low income families get free or reduced healthcare for children up until the age of 18. Depends on the household income."

And the elderly?

What about deductibles?

Guess how many people are declared bankrupt in the UK every year due to medical bills? Zero.

And in the USA? 643,000

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is a question of whether free health service reduces personal responsibility. Imo, I'm not convinced. Most ailments affect a person more directly than just their bank balance. And nothing in the US suggests private healthcare increases person responsiblity.

The other line to draw is what is available ... That's an interesting discussion. Imo more Mental Health support would help reduce other stresses in the health service.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"There is a question of whether free health service reduces personal responsibility. Imo, I'm not convinced. Most ailments affect a person more directly than just their bank balance. And nothing in the US suggests private healthcare increases person responsiblity.

The other line to draw is what is available ... That's an interesting discussion. Imo more Mental Health support would help reduce other stresses in the health service. "

As a bare minimum, IMO, the NHS should provide life saving procedures and treatments. However, I would argue that IVF should not be free on the NHS (certainly not three attempts). Similarly anything elective.

I guess the grey areas are, for example, cosmetic procedures where it has been proven it would benefit an individual's physical or mental health.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The other line to draw is what is available ... That's an interesting discussion. Imo more Mental Health support would help reduce other stresses in the health service.

I guess the grey areas are, for example, cosmetic procedures where it has been proven it would benefit an individual's physical or mental health. "
agreed... That's where MH support verus addressing the symptoms (as it were) kicks in. Imo many addictive-related issues (Inc some obesity) is linked to MH.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Medical insurance is just as flawed as all other forms of insurance.

If they can find a loophole or a way of getting out of paying they will.

The medical system in the US is a total scam.

You go in for something they throw everything at you to be able to put scans and the like on the bill and then charge the insurance company a small fortune.

When in reality a proper diagnosis early on could have saved many hundreds of thousands.

It's no different from insurance work done on a car following an accident and billing unnecessary hours to the job.

Obviously one of the biggest issues over in that there US if A is prescription costs and people being unable to afford the extortionate amount for said prescription.

I believe this is one of the reasons why the American forces are so big people join to benefit from healthcare particularly from poor deprived areas.

I could be wrong Blu?

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

If you can accept universal education so that every child gets an education, then accepting universal healthcare is not such a great leap.

A measure of how civilised your country is how you look after the young, the infirm and the old.

Really the American Health Care System is a good idea.....get a grip of yer sell.. ffs

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By *ackal1Couple over a year ago

Manchester

From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

The NHS needs administration reform to modernise and afford better services as an ongoing priority but from a both moral and financial point of view it is a far better system than the US has in place.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

Most countries aspire to a universal healthcare system. Strange how some individuals still resist. Yes they see the benefits of roads and education and a fire service or perhaps they’re police. They may not use the police but would be unhappy if the police didn’t bother catching a local murderer on the loose. It’s ok he hasn’t murdered anyone I know yet so we’re good thanks.

Americans are rightly proud of their armed forces but where does the cash come from? It’s taxes and whilst the soldiers may not stand directly in front of your house to defend it would you not want them to exist?

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

"
The VA is the closest system resembling the NHS. I have it through my husband's retirement. We don't use it we prefer the group insurance from my employer because the quality of service wait times and red tape you have to jump through is ridiculous. The government can't get that system right let alone on a national level. I love my group insurance I have no issues with it. If I call my PCP. I usually seen in a day. I not trying to sell private insurance. I just giving facts on my personal experiences. I'd rather be self reliant with my choices. By all means if you feel the NHS is much better because of no costs and you happy with the quality. I see your points.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

The VA is the closest system resembling the NHS. I have it through my husband's retirement. We don't use it we prefer the group insurance from my employer because the quality of service wait times and red tape you have to jump through is ridiculous. The government can't get that system right let alone on a national level. I love my group insurance I have no issues with it. If I call my PCP. I usually seen in a day. I not trying to sell private insurance. I just giving facts on my personal experiences. I'd rather be self reliant with my choices. By all means if you feel the NHS is much better because of no costs and you happy with the quality. I see your points."

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ackal1Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

I’m fortunate that I’m wealthy enough not to worry with either version however, I have enough respect for my fellow citizens and their various circumstances to want them to be able to access free at source healthcare.

The NHS isn’t perfect by any means and could be a lot better but I don’t want someone who is sick being rejected because they don’t have the correct insurance. That’s taking us back to the dark ages . I’m alright Jack is not a good way for human being to behave.

No one would have any of their benefits without society’s contribution. Not one person does it on their own or is self reliant that’s just a myth,

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By *ackal1Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

The only exception to the pre-existing coverage rule is for grandfathered individual health insurance plans -- the kind you buy yourself, not through an employer. They don’t have to cover pre-existing conditions.

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

"
yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

You sound like a right wing BOT

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

You do know that you can choose to pay for private medical insurance here too, don't you?

Faster treatment in a plusher environment. However, if you cannot afford that then you will still receive a basic level of treatment (excellent compared to most parts of the world).

Everyone is treated at least as well as your ex-servicemen. Why is that a bad thing?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

You do know that you can choose to pay for private medical insurance here too, don't you?

Faster treatment in a plusher environment. However, if you cannot afford that then you will still receive a basic level of treatment (excellent compared to most parts of the world).

Everyone is treated at least as well as your ex-servicemen. Why is that a bad thing?"
They do have state run medical insurance here if you can't afford it.

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By *ackal1Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

You do know that you can choose to pay for private medical insurance here too, don't you?

Faster treatment in a plusher environment. However, if you cannot afford that then you will still receive a basic level of treatment (excellent compared to most parts of the world).

Everyone is treated at least as well as your ex-servicemen. Why is that a bad thing?"

Erm yes to your first question.

On the plusher wouldn’t it be interesting if the training of all medical staff was free but they then had to work for the NHS for a minimum 10 years as pay back. Less of a drain on the NHS and a reduction in the less plush stuff.

The unrestricted privatisation is taking tax revenues over and above those needs to create profits and subsequent dividends.

The servicemen point you are missing completely . The poster is claiming he has a private system which protects him a a nd is there based on his CV own decisions and decisions in life. It’s funded by the tax system which he objects to being used to fund others in need. Hope that explains it.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't? "

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

"However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest (£2,989), with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736)."

"In 2017, the UK spent the equivalent of £53 per person on healthcare governance and the costs associated with financing healthcare. This was below the median for Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

The relatively low UK spending on governance and financing costs is partly down to the type of health system the UK operates. The NHS and other tax-based healthcare systems do not tend to have the financing costs typically incurred in health insurance schemes, such as revenues collection (the equivalent of which would be managed centrally in tax-based systems), risk-management, and profits in the case of mandatory private health insurance schemes.

Spending on governance and financing is highest in the United States, the equivalent of £639 per person. This is three times as much as the second-highest spender and 12 times the amount spent in the UK."

"Taking an international perspective, average life expectancy tends to be longer in countries that spend more on healthcare, with the notable exception being the United States. However, while the association between more expenditure on healthcare and longer life expectancy is observable for countries that spent less than £2,500 per person on healthcare, it is harder to discern an association between these factors for higher-spending countries"

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

So, as badly run as the NHS is currently, it is very hard to argue that the US system is better, wouldn't you say?

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

You do know that you can choose to pay for private medical insurance here too, don't you?

Faster treatment in a plusher environment. However, if you cannot afford that then you will still receive a basic level of treatment (excellent compared to most parts of the world).

Everyone is treated at least as well as your ex-servicemen. Why is that a bad thing?

Erm yes to your first question.

The unrestricted privatisation is taking tax revenues over and above those needs to create profits and subsequent dividends.

My questions were not directed at you.

My point is that we have a standard of basic care of a level equivalent to military veterans in the US, which the poster appears to believe is a good thing. I don't understand why it isn't good for everyone.

Private medical insurance is a convenient, but unnecessary, luxury. That is fine. It turns a profit and is treated as such.

An alternative to your proposal is that private healthcare in the UK could pay an additional medical training tax as they freeload on NHS training costs. This would help national staffing shortages.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

So, as badly run as the NHS is currently, it is very hard to argue that the US system is better, wouldn't you say?"
yes at better life expectancy. You would agree that we are a obese nation compared to the UK of course our life expectancy is going to be lower.I see everyday people screaming about paying a dollar for prescription. Yet at the drive thru their car is full of fast food cups and wrappers and the major of the time they on state assistance. So where do you draw the line? It's not just a casual occurrence either. So imagine free healthcare for all here. Hospitals would be inundated. All for free healthcare then if people don't abuse the system. But they do in droves.

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By *ackal1Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

So I will ask again as I did above...

Here’s a scenario...

Erm unless you don’t pay your premiums also

Isn’t it great that tax payers foot the bill for all those veterans. Lucky them. Imagine that, US tax receipts going to healthcare . It’s progress

yes it is great and isn't it great that alot of us prefer to use private insurance. Because of the service and government red tape. Yes good times

You do know that you can choose to pay for private medical insurance here too, don't you?

Faster treatment in a plusher environment. However, if you cannot afford that then you will still receive a basic level of treatment (excellent compared to most parts of the world).

Everyone is treated at least as well as your ex-servicemen. Why is that a bad thing?

Erm yes to your first question.

The unrestricted privatisation is taking tax revenues over and above those needs to create profits and subsequent dividends.

My questions were not directed at you.

Private medical insurance is a convenient, but unnecessary, luxury. That is fine. It turns a profit and is treated as such.

An alternative to your proposal is that private healthcare in the UK could pay an additional medical training tax as they freeload on NHS training costs. This would help national staffing shortages. "

My apologies I replied to the wrong post.

I am on the same page as you .

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Honestly I don't see the attraction to universal healthcare. Sorry I sound like idiot to some. Not going to mention anything about the NHS comparisons. I guess just as long as I happy with mine no sense in discussing it anymore.

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By *coptoCouple over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

Because the NHS is free “at the point of service” patients, never seeing an invoice and just making an appointment with their G.P., picking up their prescription drugs from the Pharmacy, calling an ambulance or turning up at A & E, have no idea of the REAL cost of all these services.

Here in France, 85% of these costs are paid for by the State for anybody “in the system”. This already means that there’s a check to exclude any “illegals” or “without papers”. As for the other chargeable 15%, obviously the old, disabled, seriously ill or disadvantaged are exempt, everybody else has to pay the 15% or take out a health insurance policy to cover it.

Choice of doctor, treatment etc. is very personal, just this morning for example I went to a doctor for consultation (25 euro) and was given a list of the analyses she needed, round the corner to have a blood sample taken for 78 euro. 85% will be reimbursed (a posteriori, I’m not in the French system), the remaining 15% would be reimbursed if I had this separate insurance (I don’t).

Not saying the system is better or worse: advantages and disadvantages, the convenience of immediate attention, but the inconvenience of perhaps having to travel to a laboratory or x-ray clinic. BUT every French citizen has a good idea of just how much first-world health care costs. The UK frequent-flyers who visit their quack every other day perhaps don’t realise (or don’t care?) that it’s hardly a free service, and “I worked all my life and paid my taxes” doesn’t cover it. A friend in the UK has just been “upgraded” from a beta-blocker costing pennies to an ARNI (angiotensin receptor neprilysin inhibitor) that has an American patent and will cost the NHS many thousands a year. The immunotherapy drug PEMBROZILUMAB works out at over ten thousand quid PER INJECTION.

The NHS as we know it is unsustainable...

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By *hirleyMan over a year ago

somewhere

"Honestly I don't see the attraction to universal healthcare. Sorry I sound like idiot to some. Not going to mention anything about the NHS comparisons. I guess just as long as I happy with mine no sense in discussing it anymore."

If you're saying that you believe the UK should be more like the US system then no, I strongly disagree with that.

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"Because the NHS is free “at the point of service” patients, never seeing an invoice and just making an appointment with their G.P., picking up their prescription drugs from the Pharmacy, calling an ambulance or turning up at A & E, have no idea of the REAL cost of all these services.

The NHS as we know it is unsustainable...

Says the guy who lives in France I assume....give me strength

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By *coptoCouple over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

Yes, post-BREXIT I live in France... I wonder why?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

Poor people don't die prematurely. People don't go bankrupt to give their kids life saving medical care. That kind of stuff.

Not sure why it upsets you so much that we have universal healthcare. You'll find it's pretty universally popular and generally considered a positive thing.

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By *amantMan over a year ago

Alnmouth

I have noticed a definite swing against the notion of the NHS recently. Increasing numbers of people talking about 'the German model' as some panacea. That said, give me the German version of universal healthcare over the lack of it in the US. It should be remembered we don't have a monopoly on universal healthcare, we just have the best system. But it doesn't matter how good the system is, if you don't have the beds, or the staff, the system can only do so much.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"I have noticed a definite swing against the notion of the NHS recently. Increasing numbers of people talking about 'the German model' as some panacea. That said, give me the German version of universal healthcare over the lack of it in the US. It should be remembered we don't have a monopoly on universal healthcare, we just have the best system. But it doesn't matter how good the system is, if you don't have the beds, or the staff, the system can only do so much. "

It is being run into the ground, some people would say on purpose, in conjunction with brexit. With the purpose of selling chunks of it off to US medical and pharmaceutical corporations.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Poor people don't die prematurely. People don't go bankrupt to give their kids life saving medical care. That kind of stuff.

Not sure why it upsets you so much that we have universal healthcare. You'll find it's pretty universally popular and generally considered a positive thing. "
Like I said I am perfectly happy with my insurance. I have no issues with it. I just do not see the appeal in yours.As long as your happy with the way it operates . Who am I to judge anymore. I love my approach to my healthcare

You love yours. So it's agree to disagree thing.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

Poor people don't die prematurely. People don't go bankrupt to give their kids life saving medical care. That kind of stuff.

Not sure why it upsets you so much that we have universal healthcare. You'll find it's pretty universally popular and generally considered a positive thing. Like I said I am perfectly happy with my insurance. I have no issues with it. I just do not see the appeal in yours.As long as your happy with the way it operates . Who am I to judge anymore. I love my approach to my healthcare

You love yours. So it's agree to disagree thing. "

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By *oubleswing2019Man over a year ago

Colchester

"Yet I see people everyday being a determent to themselves and society because they choose to self inflict and expect everyone else to agree with their choices . How does that justify everyone else paying for that stupidity? "

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

So I'd like to put some money in the pot to cover you in the event of an accident. It's not for me to judge how it occurred or where the blame lies. I don't give a damn. I just want you to be well and mended.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

"
But I have healthcare in the event of a accident.

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By *eroy1000Man over a year ago

milton keynes

The NHS as we know it is unsustainable...

That's an interesting system but not sure I understand correctly. Are you saying you pay 100% costs up front and then the state automatically refunds 85%. To get the remaining 15% you claim on insurance if you have it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

"
if you are happy with the way your healthcare is like I stated who am I to judge. I am perfectly happy with mine. I have no issues you state you don't have any issues. It's like beating a dead horse.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

if you are happy with the way your healthcare is like I stated who am I to judge. I am perfectly happy with mine. I have no issues you state you don't have any issues. It's like beating a dead horse."

Although you did start a thread grumbling about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There should be NO health care.

It's not the job of the government to provide education or health care, that's your job.

The government's job is to keep the country safe from attack and invasion and to guarantee the people's liberty. That's it.

Work, pay low tax and pay for your healthcare.

Never trust the government for health, they don't give a f*k.

Attlee was a twat and social healthcare has been our undoing economically.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

if you are happy with the way your healthcare is like I stated who am I to judge. I am perfectly happy with mine. I have no issues you state you don't have any issues. It's like beating a dead horse.

Although you did start a thread grumbling about it.

"
lol I did just observations from work that annoyed me.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"There should be NO health care.

It's not the job of the government to provide education or health care, that's your job.

The government's job is to keep the country safe from attack and invasion and to guarantee the people's liberty. That's it.

Work, pay low tax and pay for your healthcare.

Never trust the government for health, they don't give a f*k.

Attlee was a twat and social healthcare has been our undoing economically. "

I can see why you voted for brexit and think that climate change isn't real.

Fair play to you.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

if you are happy with the way your healthcare is like I stated who am I to judge. I am perfectly happy with mine. I have no issues you state you don't have any issues. It's like beating a dead horse.

Although you did start a thread grumbling about it.

lol I did just observations from work that annoyed me."

I'm just poking fun. It's an interesting topic.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I believe you are from the US are you not ? And from some of your posts, you're a card-carrying member of the rooting, tooting, gun-loving party, am I correct ?

So I think it's fair to guess you probably own a few, keep them locked in a safe, and take 'em out now and then to go a'hunting, or down the range, yes ?

But accidents happen don't they ?

Things get unlocked...distractions happen, access to those who should't have access is granted. Or one goes off when cleaning and it was chambered. Ooops !

Now you could say, that was self-inflicted. Gross stupidity infact.

But accident's happen.

And all I ask, is that you do the same for me.

I won't judge you, if you don't judge me.

That's the basics of Universal Healthcare.

It matters not what party you support, or your income or anything else. It's just human decency to help each other as part of a collective.

if you are happy with the way your healthcare is like I stated who am I to judge. I am perfectly happy with mine. I have no issues you state you don't have any issues. It's like beating a dead horse.

Although you did start a thread grumbling about it.

lol I did just observations from work that annoyed me.

I'm just poking fun. It's an interesting topic. "
it was.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

So, as badly run as the NHS is currently, it is very hard to argue that the US system is better, wouldn't you say? yes at better life expectancy. You would agree that we are a obese nation compared to the UK of course our life expectancy is going to be lower.I see everyday people screaming about paying a dollar for prescription. Yet at the drive thru their car is full of fast food cups and wrappers and the major of the time they on state assistance. So where do you draw the line? It's not just a casual occurrence either. So imagine free healthcare for all here. Hospitals would be inundated. All for free healthcare then if people don't abuse the system. But they do in droves. "

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

There are certainly a significant number of obese veterans, are there not? Self inflicted? Why do they get a pass? It's very possible that they never saw combat, never took a risk for your country, correct?

I have shown you the data on how poor the value for money of your system is, so what is it you like about it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

I have shown you the data on how poor the value for money of your system is, so what is it you like about it?"
No I believe in them getting the help they need from combat related injuries. Hence why I use my private health care. Like I said I am happy with "MY" health-care. Your DATA does not apply to me now does it?

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

I have shown you the data on how poor the value for money of your system is, so what is it you like about it? No I believe in them getting the help they need from combat related injuries. Hence why I use my private health care. Like I said I am happy with "MY" health-care. Your DATA does not apply to me now does it?"

You choose not to, but 'undeserving' veterans and their families could also have that medical care, couldn't they?

So, to be clear you are happy with the most financially inefficient healthcare system in the world? The data does apply to your country, which you are proud of.

Are you proud of this?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

You choose not to, but 'undeserving' veterans and their families could also have that medical care, couldn't they?

So, to be clear you are happy with the most financially inefficient healthcare system in the world? The data does apply to your country, which you are proud of.

Are you proud of this?"
does your data apply to me ? It doesn't.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

You choose not to, but 'undeserving' veterans and their families could also have that medical care, couldn't they?

So, to be clear you are happy with the most financially inefficient healthcare system in the world? The data does apply to your country, which you are proud of.

Are you proud of this? does your data apply to me ? It doesn't."
I am proud of my accomplishments.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Iike I said for the umpteenth time . I love mine. Just like you love yours. I have everything I need for every situation. Data or not.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

You choose not to, but 'undeserving' veterans and their families could also have that medical care, couldn't they?

So, to be clear you are happy with the most financially inefficient healthcare system in the world? The data does apply to your country, which you are proud of.

Are you proud of this? does your data apply to me ? It doesn't."

The data does apply to you because you pay more for your healthcare than people here do.

Your country has less efficient healthcare than anywhere else in the world. As you are a citizen of the USA that does apply to you. It is your country, right, or are only certain aspects of it yours?

Is financially inefficient service a matter of national pride?

What do you "love" about your healthcare system compared to the one here?

Is it that medical companies warn more profits to give to shareholders?

Do you feel better about yourself because other people are unable to obtain the same quality of care as you?

I am guessing because you don't seem willing or able to answer.

I'm interested to know why it is "better" despite the data indicating otherwise.

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By *coptoCouple over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

"That's an interesting system but not sure I understand correctly. Are you saying you pay 100% costs up front and then the state automatically refunds 85%. To get the remaining 15% you claim on insurance if you have it?"

When a French patient goes into a Pharmacy, clinic etc. they show their credit-card like "Carte Vitale" which proves they're in the system (no "illegals", then). The 85% owed to the doctor/clinic/ambulance what have you is paid to the Doctor directly by the State, the other 15% claimed from the patient's "mutuel" insurance. In practice, just like the UK patient who goes to the quack then goes to Boots for his medicines, no cash is handed over. Lots of paperwork for Doctors (well, computer input, obviously), a G.P. is expected to see 40 patients a day and all this administrative blah blah IS a bone of contention with them.

Personally, I have private health insurance from my employer, but I'm only reimbursed at 85%. I could join the French system and get 85% from them, but I'd still have to get a separate "mutuel" insurance to cover the difference. For the moment it's more economical for me to "swallow" the shortfall.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I see the concept of it there. But I also see here people taking advantage of healthcare to suit their needs. Wheres do you draw the line on what should be standard healthcare and what shouldn't?

The US has the most expensive healthcare in the world amongst developed nations, but returning lower than average outcomes.

From the (UK) Office of Budget Responsibility 2019:

US life expectancy is 78.6 for £7,736/yr

UK life expectancy is 81.3 for £2,989/yr

You think that free healthcare is good for veterans though. So why not good for everyone.

You choose not to, but 'undeserving' veterans and their families could also have that medical care, couldn't they?

So, to be clear you are happy with the most financially inefficient healthcare system in the world? The data does apply to your country, which you are proud of.

Are you proud of this? does your data apply to me ? It doesn't.

The data does apply to you because you pay more for your healthcare than people here do.

Your country has less efficient healthcare than anywhere else in the world. As you are a citizen of the USA that does apply to you. It is your country, right, or are only certain aspects of it yours?

Is financially inefficient service a matter of national pride?

What do you "love" about your healthcare system compared to the one here?

Is it that medical companies warn more profits to give to shareholders?

Do you feel better about yourself because other people are unable to obtain the same quality of care as you?

I am guessing because you don't seem willing or able to answer.

I'm interested to know why it is "better" despite the data indicating otherwise."
Yes I have a higher out of pocket expense. But also in my profession I make 4 times plus bonuses compared to my UK counterparts. I can cover the costs easily and still live the life I enjoy. I chose different aspects of my policy like long term and short term disability eye dental HSA. I am not dictated by the government that sets salaries now am I? Simple I like my standard of living. Something happens there are triggers in place. Because I plan I am a villain ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

If the UK paid healthcare professionals the same as here I will gladly accept a offer there. It's not rocket science. Standard of living is just as important as Healthcare for a medical professional.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So in conclusion like I said if you happy with your healthcare. I am happy for you and I am happy with mine. Debating all day is not going to solve anything. So enjoy your standards and I will enjoy mine.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"So in conclusion like I said if you happy with your healthcare. I am happy for you and I am happy with mine. Debating all day is not going to solve anything. So enjoy your standards and I will enjoy mine.

Maybe don’t keep asking the same question in different ways across multiple threads all the time then Blu?

We get it that you are happy. The majority of us this side of the pond do not agree with you. Most of the time your posts on this topic come across as “I’m alright Jack fuck everyone else”. Many of us do not agree with that sentiment but you are if course fully entitled to hold that view.

Be well. Be happy

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"From a cold financial point of view .

In the U.K an average family (two plus two kids) pays in tax towards their healthcare the same as an individual to cover just that individual in the US.

So 4-1 cheaper on costs .

Add to that if you can’t pay it’s ok you’re covered in the UK and I’m afraid it’s a financial no brainier.

There is no argument to be had if you care about society or indeed just about your wallet. The medical related companies in the US are not doing anyone favours. it’s very profitable.

Free market doctrine is in this instance no match for reality and simple facts .

To deny relationships in society is just nonsense.

See here is the thing…. And this is from someone who has experienced both systems

You have the NHS… but if you are not happy with that you can get private insurance Like BUPA

Now… it time for story time with Fabio…

two different examples

I basically almost died 6 years ago… I was walking around with ‘walking pneumonia’ .. I thought it was just a cough that until I rolled out of bed one Saturday morning when my body just gave up because it also caused fluid on my lungs to the point I couldn’t breathe much anymore

Sidenote.. you know those blood oxygen sensors they put on your finger… well the normal score is 98-100…. At that point I managed to get a score of 27! They changed the machine 3 times because they thought it was faulty!

So… rushed me into a bed… they said if I had come in 6 hrs later I probably would have been rushed into an ICU… emergency surgery relieved my lungs of nearly 3 pints of fluid while I was in hospital

And I was in hospital for 3 weeks…….

So….. how much would that have been? The nhs was nothing but the taxes I paid

I’d not even like to imagine what that would have cost in the states

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

But let’s not use something that extreme.. let’s use something much more common…

Pregnancy and the birth of a child…

How much would that cost in the uk… nothing

How much in the US …. Average is 10k… can go up to 30k

Not to go all ‘Bernie sanders’ … but the irony is US people would pay less overall if under a socialised health system, they you would pay in co-pays

P.s…. Epi pens… 150 each… an inhaler… 600 dollars for 2!!!!

Ambulance…. Up to 2 grand

And I can guarantee you that uk people have either fallen on the floor or have not shut their mouths whilst reading this!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"But let’s not use something that extreme.. let’s use something much more common…

Pregnancy and the birth of a child…

How much would that cost in the uk… nothing

How much in the US …. Average is 10k… can go up to 30k

Not to go all ‘Bernie sanders’ … but the irony is US people would pay less overall if under a socialised health system, they you would pay in co-pays

P.s…. Epi pens… 150 each… an inhaler… 600 dollars for 2!!!!

Ambulance…. Up to 2 grand

And I can guarantee you that uk people have either fallen on the floor or have not shut their mouths whilst reading this!"

I've heard the horror stories. And the lack of maternity leave in some states is staggering.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"But let’s not use something that extreme.. let’s use something much more common…

Pregnancy and the birth of a child…

How much would that cost in the uk… nothing

How much in the US …. Average is 10k… can go up to 30k

Not to go all ‘Bernie sanders’ … but the irony is US people would pay less overall if under a socialised health system, they you would pay in co-pays

P.s…. Epi pens… 150 each… an inhaler… 600 dollars for 2!!!!

Ambulance…. Up to 2 grand

And I can guarantee you that uk people have either fallen on the floor or have not shut their mouths whilst reading this!"

As I posted higher up. The number of people in the UK who are bankrupted each year due to medical bills = zero!

The number each year in the USA = 643,000