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54% of children not ready for school at age 4
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"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. " Shocking! Is that a national poll? Are there regional differences? Are there demographic differences? | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Shocking! Is that a national poll? Are there regional differences? Are there demographic differences? " National poll of 1000 reception class teachers. | |||
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"I recognise there are differences in countries, but I don't think cutlery became relevant at school for me until I was at least ten. (I could use cutlery at four, and when I started school at five)" A lot of children take a packed lunch anyway. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. " Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! | |||
"I recognise there are differences in countries, but I don't think cutlery became relevant at school for me until I was at least ten. (I could use cutlery at four, and when I started school at five)" I work on social housing and not meny have the space for a dinning table. It's not uncomen to see a bed in the lounge due to over crowding. So this dose not surprise me, lots now have slip on shoes so no laces to tie. As for reading and writing some of the perants struggle. Education is the key but do we need more places for pre school. I would bet some children have not even meet another child before starting at school. | |||
"I recognise there are differences in countries, but I don't think cutlery became relevant at school for me until I was at least ten. (I could use cutlery at four, and when I started school at five) A lot of children take a packed lunch anyway. " Yes. In Australia that's almost exclusively what happens. Sandwich, juice box, piece of fruit, cereal bar. (Overnight camps was when it was relevant) | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! " Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? | |||
"I wouldn't expect children to be able to read, write and do maths at 4. When our children were at primary school some of their friends had never sat at a dining table to eat before they came to our house, a couple ate with their fingers because they didn't routinely use cutlery and one of two found it difficult to put their own coat or shoes on. " Why shouldn't they be able to read basic stories from picture books, be able to write their name and some other easy stuff or be able to count and do simple addition and subtraction? Potty training should be completed before they are two. Books are very cheap, 10 for £10 new from The Works. Less from the charity shop. Counting etc. should just be part of the normal conversation, for example when shopping count items into the trolley. Etc. So the question stands... WTF are the parents doing? | |||
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"I wouldn't expect children to be able to read, write and do maths at 4. When our children were at primary school some of their friends had never sat at a dining table to eat before they came to our house, a couple ate with their fingers because they didn't routinely use cutlery and one of two found it difficult to put their own coat or shoes on. Why shouldn't they be able to read basic stories from picture books, be able to write their name and some other easy stuff or be able to count and do simple addition and subtraction? Potty training should be completed before they are two. Books are very cheap, 10 for £10 new from The Works. Less from the charity shop. Counting etc. should just be part of the normal conversation, for example when shopping count items into the trolley. Etc. So the question stands... WTF are the parents doing?" Because not all parents have the skills to teach reading, writing and maths and not all children have the ability to learn theses things at 4. I couldn't read or write when I went to school and neither could my children. Yet we all come from a family with many teachers in it. I think a lot of people criticise parents for not bringing their children up in the same way they do without first stopping to consider that every family has its own problems | |||
"I don't think reading, writing and maths are skills children should have "by" four. I think they should be prepared to start when they get there. That is actually what school is for, is it not?" In my opinion yes. My job as a parent was to ensure that the teacher could concentrate on teaching and not putting my kids shoes on for them . | |||
"I wouldn't expect children to be able to read, write and do maths at 4. When our children were at primary school some of their friends had never sat at a dining table to eat before they came to our house, a couple ate with their fingers because they didn't routinely use cutlery and one of two found it difficult to put their own coat or shoes on. Why shouldn't they be able to read basic stories from picture books, be able to write their name and some other easy stuff or be able to count and do simple addition and subtraction? Potty training should be completed before they are two. Books are very cheap, 10 for £10 new from The Works. Less from the charity shop. Counting etc. should just be part of the normal conversation, for example when shopping count items into the trolley. Etc. So the question stands... WTF are the parents doing? Because not all parents have the skills to teach reading, writing and maths and not all children have the ability to learn theses things at 4. I couldn't read or write when I went to school and neither could my children. Yet we all come from a family with many teachers in it. I think a lot of people criticise parents for not bringing their children up in the same way they do without first stopping to consider that every family has its own problems " Also I'm sure some of parents are working precarious jobs. If I was struggling to keep food on the table, I'm sorry, but making sure my child had enough food to allow their brain to develop would be more important than phonics. | |||
"I don't think reading, writing and maths are skills children should have "by" four. I think they should be prepared to start when they get there. That is actually what school is for, is it not? In my opinion yes. My job as a parent was to ensure that the teacher could concentrate on teaching and not putting my kids shoes on for them ." My mum "retired" to have children and was vital to my early education (including, memorably, undoing some of the bullshit I learned at school!). But it was uncommon 30+ years ago and it's even less common now. I recognise I was extremely fortunate. | |||
"I don't think reading, writing and maths are skills children should have "by" four. I think they should be prepared to start when they get there. That is actually what school is for, is it not?" It is the parents' job to teach their children about most things. Schools are there to advise and teach but they can't cover everything. How can a child develop a love of reading if the only chance they get is in school? Parents always need to supplement and expand on stuff learnt in school if their children are to do well academically. | |||
"I wouldn't expect children to be able to read, write and do maths at 4. When our children were at primary school some of their friends had never sat at a dining table to eat before they came to our house, a couple ate with their fingers because they didn't routinely use cutlery and one of two found it difficult to put their own coat or shoes on. Why shouldn't they be able to read basic stories from picture books, be able to write their name and some other easy stuff or be able to count and do simple addition and subtraction? Potty training should be completed before they are two. Books are very cheap, 10 for £10 new from The Works. Less from the charity shop. Counting etc. should just be part of the normal conversation, for example when shopping count items into the trolley. Etc. So the question stands... WTF are the parents doing? Because not all parents have the skills to teach reading, writing and maths and not all children have the ability to learn theses things at 4. I couldn't read or write when I went to school and neither could my children. Yet we all come from a family with many teachers in it. I think a lot of people criticise parents for not bringing their children up in the same way they do without first stopping to consider that every family has its own problems Also I'm sure some of parents are working precarious jobs. If I was struggling to keep food on the table, I'm sorry, but making sure my child had enough food to allow their brain to develop would be more important than phonics." Our kids had access to a wide range of reading material from the start. Our son was an expert in birds by the time he was 4 because his favourite bedtime story was a reference book on British birds. It was so boring  night after flaming night and most afternoons. When the other kids were shouting "look mummy a quack quack" he was shouting " look mummy a greater crested grebe" . | |||
"I don't think reading, writing and maths are skills children should have "by" four. I think they should be prepared to start when they get there. That is actually what school is for, is it not? It is the parents' job to teach their children about most things. Schools are there to advise and teach but they can't cover everything. How can a child develop a love of reading if the only chance they get is in school? Parents always need to supplement and expand on stuff learnt in school if their children are to do well academically." Do you think most of us never show our kids a book? | |||
"I don't think reading, writing and maths are skills children should have "by" four. I think they should be prepared to start when they get there. That is actually what school is for, is it not? It is the parents' job to teach their children about most things. Schools are there to advise and teach but they can't cover everything. How can a child develop a love of reading if the only chance they get is in school? Parents always need to supplement and expand on stuff learnt in school if their children are to do well academically." The usual advice is to read to children. Not do the job of the school. Why should a four year old come to school prepared to do what school will teach them? If parents are equipped to enrich their children's lives like this, why would they do something redundant? Give them a rudimentary understanding of history (your great grandfather in the war; what's that statue in the village for?). Do little experiments (what happens if we give this plant water but not that one?). Curiosity. (How do you satisfy that curiosity when Mummy and Daddy aren't around? In books, darling) Potty training I'll absolutely agree is an issue. Reading - and I was reading 12-18 months before I started school - absolutely not. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. " 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly  | |||
"I wouldn't expect children to be able to read, write and do maths at 4. When our children were at primary school some of their friends had never sat at a dining table to eat before they came to our house, a couple ate with their fingers because they didn't routinely use cutlery and one of two found it difficult to put their own coat or shoes on. Why shouldn't they be able to read basic stories from picture books, be able to write their name and some other easy stuff or be able to count and do simple addition and subtraction? Potty training should be completed before they are two. Books are very cheap, 10 for £10 new from The Works. Less from the charity shop. Counting etc. should just be part of the normal conversation, for example when shopping count items into the trolley. Etc. So the question stands... WTF are the parents doing? Because not all parents have the skills to teach reading, writing and maths and not all children have the ability to learn theses things at 4. I couldn't read or write when I went to school and neither could my children. Yet we all come from a family with many teachers in it. I think a lot of people criticise parents for not bringing their children up in the same way they do without first stopping to consider that every family has its own problems Also I'm sure some of parents are working precarious jobs. If I was struggling to keep food on the table, I'm sorry, but making sure my child had enough food to allow their brain to develop would be more important than phonics. Our kids had access to a wide range of reading material from the start. Our son was an expert in birds by the time he was 4 because his favourite bedtime story was a reference book on British birds. It was so boring night after flaming night and most afternoons. When the other kids were shouting "look mummy a quack quack" he was shouting " look mummy a greater crested grebe" . "Oh that's amazing  | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly "Not bad? It is awful. The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job. Some won't catch up at all. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all. "What’s the answer to improve the development of all under 4’s and what would be acceptable benchmark? Once that is established what happens to those under 4’s and parents who didn’t make the grade? | |||
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"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.! "I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future. | |||
"There are always reasons, excuses, and outliers/exceptional circumstances etc etc but 54% is a shocking statistic. I would expect some but not that many! Few people would expect parents to “teach” but we are talking about some pretty basic life skills here... Saying their own name! Using a cutlery! Reading! We’re not talking Tolstoy here! Toilet training! Seriously! Some Parents do not toilet train their kids! FFS. Sorry but these are basic skills that should be required of any parent. Not so much the kids spending too much time on screens, it’s the parents!" To add...this is also a basic pride thing. No way on Earth my child would have started school unable to look after themselves on the toilet or at very least have rudimentary reading and writing skills. | |||
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"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future."You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics. In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future."I tend to agree. | |||
"I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the vast majority of parents are doing the best they can with what they have at their disposal. " Agreed. Why do a majority of four year olds come from households where this can't be provided? What can be done to help these kids? | |||
"I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the vast majority of parents are doing the best they can with what they have at their disposal. Agreed. Why do a majority of four year olds come from households where this can't be provided? What can be done to help these kids?" How many of this 54% have trouble communicating due to undiagnosed speech or hearing problems or because they're recently arrived from e.g. Ukraine or Syria? How many who can't use cutlery are from Indian families where meals are eaten with their fingers? As to what can be done, I don't have an answer but I don't think finger pointing helps. | |||
"There are always reasons, excuses, and outliers/exceptional circumstances etc etc but 54% is a shocking statistic. I would expect some but not that many! Few people would expect parents to “teach” but we are talking about some pretty basic life skills here... Saying their own name! Using a cutlery! Reading! We’re not talking Tolstoy here! Toilet training! Seriously! Some Parents do not toilet train their kids! FFS. Sorry but these are basic skills that should be required of any parent. Not so much the kids spending too much time on screens, it’s the parents!" Just on reading and writing: I grew up pretty middle class in an area (of another country) where school started at five, not four. I was an outlier being able to read anything at five. As were my siblings when they started school. I think some reading and an attempt to write a child's name (or nickname, depending on the name in question - cut poor Nathaniel some slack) is a laudable goal and perhaps even realistic for many. But I don't think it's the end of the world if they can't. Potty training concerns me if it's not there by four. Reading, not really. | |||
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"I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the vast majority of parents are doing the best they can with what they have at their disposal. Agreed. Why do a majority of four year olds come from households where this can't be provided? What can be done to help these kids? How many of this 54% have trouble communicating due to undiagnosed speech or hearing problems or because they're recently arrived from e.g. Ukraine or Syria? How many who can't use cutlery are from Indian families where meals are eaten with their fingers? As to what can be done, I don't have an answer but I don't think finger pointing helps. " Or zero hours precarious jobs, where there's no time or energy. Or maybe these parents have their own difficulties because they fell through the cracks. Or food insecurity - maybe the parents are more worried about nutrition for vital neurological development. I would be. I think, too, that the focus should be on finding out why it's an issue and what can be done to give the children the help they need to thrive. | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them" My mum taught me phonics, which was *way* out of fashion when I got to school. I got corrected for correctly sounding out the words ... My mum then taught me to pretend to read the way Mrs S wanted me to, and carry on doing it the way Mum had taught me  | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them My mum taught me phonics, which was *way* out of fashion when I got to school. I got corrected for correctly sounding out the words ... My mum then taught me to pretend to read the way Mrs S wanted me to, and carry on doing it the way Mum had taught me "
There is an element (necessary given the numbers of children in a class) of everyone achieving everything by the same method at the same time. We had a similar thing with my youngest brother. | |||
"There are always reasons, excuses, and outliers/exceptional circumstances etc etc but 54% is a shocking statistic. I would expect some but not that many! Few people would expect parents to “teach” but we are talking about some pretty basic life skills here... Saying their own name! Using a cutlery! Reading! We’re not talking Tolstoy here! Toilet training! Seriously! Some Parents do not toilet train their kids! FFS. Sorry but these are basic skills that should be required of any parent. Not so much the kids spending too much time on screens, it’s the parents! Just on reading and writing: I grew up pretty middle class in an area (of another country) where school started at five, not four. I was an outlier being able to read anything at five. As were my siblings when they started school. I think some reading and an attempt to write a child's name (or nickname, depending on the name in question - cut poor Nathaniel some slack) is a laudable goal and perhaps even realistic for many. But I don't think it's the end of the world if they can't. Potty training concerns me if it's not there by four. Reading, not really. " As said always outliers and exceptions. As per another poster above, it would be good to understand the make up of that 54% but overall that is a high amount. On the point of reading, unless the child has learning difficulties or English is not a first language, then I would expect a 4-5yr old to be able to read “cat, dog, man” and even very simple sentences! | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics.
In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset.
"What makes you think 99% of parents don’t have that mindset now? You’re making a lot of assumptions based on some high level noise. How are the 54% grouped, is it on all of the things mentioned in the poll or maybe 1 of those things put them in the 54%. | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them" Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics.
In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset.
What makes you think 99% of parents don’t have that mindset now?
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on some high level noise. How are the 54% grouped, is it on all of the things mentioned in the poll or maybe 1 of those things put them in the 54%.
"Good question, it might only be 1 % who are not potty trained etc | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself." ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics.
In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset.
What makes you think 99% of parents don’t have that mindset now?
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on some high level noise. How are the 54% grouped, is it on all of the things mentioned in the poll or maybe 1 of those things put them in the 54%.
Good question, it might only be 1 % who are not potty trained etc "It is difficult to find the full survey but I did see that 93% of respondents said that at least one in their class was not potty trained. Based on class sizes of 30 that would mean about 3% are not potty trained. Abysmal. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics.
In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset.
What makes you think 99% of parents don’t have that mindset now?
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on some high level noise. How are the 54% grouped, is it on all of the things mentioned in the poll or maybe 1 of those things put them in the 54%.
Good question, it might only be 1 % who are not potty trained etc "That's the problem with statistics you can interpret them to fit your own agenda. A useful skill to have is the ability to question what you see hear and read. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics.
In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset.
What makes you think 99% of parents don’t have that mindset now?
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on some high level noise. How are the 54% grouped, is it on all of the things mentioned in the poll or maybe 1 of those things put them in the 54%.
Good question, it might only be 1 % who are not potty trained etc
It is difficult to find the full survey but I did see that 93% of respondents said that at least one in their class was not potty trained. Based on class sizes of 30 that would mean about 3% are not potty trained.
Abysmal."3% is not 54% , tbh this survey sounds vague | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? " No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
You think..I started school in the early 70's and no way were my parents going to send me off to school unable to do the basics.
In fact I would say 99% of all parents back then had the same mindset.
What makes you think 99% of parents don’t have that mindset now?
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on some high level noise. How are the 54% grouped, is it on all of the things mentioned in the poll or maybe 1 of those things put them in the 54%.
Good question, it might only be 1 % who are not potty trained etc
It is difficult to find the full survey but I did see that 93% of respondents said that at least one in their class was not potty trained. Based on class sizes of 30 that would mean about 3% are not potty trained.
Abysmal."Did it say why they weren't potty trained? I know of two school age children with medical conditions that mean they need pull ups | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way." Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?  | |||
"I'd really like to know how the questions in this poll were phrased and if more than a yes or no answer was required. How are they defining toilet trained? Do the children who can't communicate 'properly' have any issues such as speech or heading problems? I think it pays to question the method by which these statistics are arrived at before criticising parents " Yes, although concern should be shown if there is some statistically significant increase in the number of children starting school without certain basic skills, proper interpretation of these poll results would require both understanding of the poll questions and how they were put to the respondees, and some previous statistical basis against which to compare. It may also be necessary to look deeper into how some of the required skills were judged, particularly given the multicultural nature of the population compared with say the 1970's that many of the above posts are comparing against. - Toilet training. Depending on cultural background, there may be reasons for some children being judged as unable to use a toilet, when in fact it may be that there are social and/or religious factors surrounding use of toilet facilities outside of home coming into play. Also there have always been some number of children that although basically toilet trained, have had some level of urinary incontinence until well into schooling years (for all sorts of reasons). - Use of eating utensils. Many households now have different customs and standards around the use of eating utensils. There may be children who can use chopsticks but have no idea what to do with a knife and fork. There is the "english" method of knife in right hand, fork in left hand - compared with the "american" method of cutting food using knife and fork, then putting down knife and using the right hand to hold the fork for actual eating. Some societies have preference for using fingers for eating, using pieces of bread to pick up meat or vegetables. - Saying their name. Since the 1970's many "exotic" children's names have started to be used, some of these may be difficult for children to say clearly, and some of them may be difficult for the "english" ear to understand clearly. A very cursor web search tells me that current popular girls names include Freya, Isla, Mia, Sienna, Aurora, Eloise; popular boys names include Theo, Finlay, Rueben, Hudson, Zachary. I can well believe that many of these might be said perfectly by the child, but an adult who has grown up with "traditional" names might have difficulty in hearing them! - Reading, writing, maths. Maybe I am mis-remembering, but my experience of first entry to primary school was that none of us were expected to be able to read, write or count. Teaching started with flash cards showing a picture of a C-A-T, or with 1 apple, 2 oranges. By comparison I now see many pre-school children that at the age of only 2 or 3 have figured out how to make a tablet or smart phone bring up their favourite counting game or nursery story. It is also worth considering that while back in the 1970's it was the norm for most households to have only one of the parents working, with a stay at home mother (who yes, was doing housework which was much more of a full time backbreaking job back then) who had some time available to spend with the children. Now it is certainly the norm for most households to have both parents working, and in many cases working multiple jobs just to stay alive. Parents may have little time at home, and be dead tired when they are at home, so there will be many cases where the answer to "WTF are parents doing?" is that they are fighting to just be able to feed their children. | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you? "Don't believe in it. Can't afford it. It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school. | |||
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"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?
Don't believe in it.
Can't afford it.
It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school."I hope you passed on your ability to come to a comparative conclusion based on gut feel alone | |||
"Ok so the survey apparently is misleading or the OP is misleading as we clearly need to know how that 54% breaks down to get to the real figures. If the real figures are very low then there really is little to see here. If they are high then it remains concerning and is a sad indictment of modern parenting. Pretty sure most of my posts on most topics show I am pretty liberal minded and try my best to recognise that there are nuances and grey areas in all aspects of life. But seriously, being a parent comes with responsibilities and too many people want to abdicate responsibility to others. Some of these parents need to “man/woman up”" This snippet of the survey is vague.. I think I found the survey being quoted. It is from the teachers perspective that these numbers have been concluded. Although from a parent’s perspective 89% thought their children were school ready. The issues stated (potty trained) lessons were being interrupted because teachers were having to clean up a child’s accident. Does that go down as not potty trained? In my opinion this survey is problematic and based on hearsay rather than realistic data. | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?
Don't believe in it.
Can't afford it.
It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school."How do you know? it sounds like you did your best with what you had but you could have done better if you had improved your circumstances, does this sound familiar? | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?
Don't believe in it.
Can't afford it.
It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school.
How do you know? it sounds like you did your best with what you had but you could have done better if you had improved your circumstances, does this sound familiar? "Could not have done better. The grading system only goes up to 9. | |||
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"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?
Don't believe in it.
Can't afford it.
It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school.
How do you know? it sounds like you did your best with what you had but you could have done better if you had improved your circumstances, does this sound familiar?
Could not have done better. The grading system only goes up to 9."You could and some would say should have done better, but you tried your best | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?
Don't believe in it.
Can't afford it.
It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school.
How do you know? it sounds like you did your best with what you had but you could have done better if you had improved your circumstances, does this sound familiar?
Could not have done better. The grading system only goes up to 9.
You could and some would say should have done better, but you tried your best "Exactly how? | |||
"If you are teaching your kids to write make sure it's the same way they'll be taught when they get to school of the teacher will have to undo everything you showed them Not necessarily. I taught my daughter to read amd write before she went to school. In the same way as I was taught in the 1970s. One sound for each letter. Flash cards 'apple' 'cat' 'dog' etc. She was very confused by the modern crap methods of teaching. When she was pointing out a letter she would say a sound bearing no relation to the letter sound. I didn't know what she was on about so I told her to completely ignore the rubbish being taught at school and finished teaching her myself. ‘You told her to completely ignore the rubbish she was being taught at school’ , why did you send her to that school then? No choice. Our first choice school was full. The third choice was really bad. Anyway, all the local schools taught reading in the same confusing way. Why didn’t you send her to a private school or a private tutor ? Or move to a better school catchment area ? If other parents can do these things why can’t you?
Don't believe in it.
Can't afford it.
It was not necessary. I taught my daughter around the curriculum in primary school and all GCSE subjects, filling in the gaps left by the schools. She would not have done any better at another school.
How do you know? it sounds like you did your best with what you had but you could have done better if you had improved your circumstances, does this sound familiar?
Could not have done better. The grading system only goes up to 9.
You could and some would say should have done better, but you tried your best
Exactly how?"There is always room for improvement, everyday is a school day | |||
"How many people on here see mums and dads pushing their children in push chairs whilst taking no notice of, or interacting with the child because they are too busy on their mobile phones. If the same is happening at home how little attention and therefore educational development those children must be receiving. Not eating at a table as a family is losing a very basic way of interacting and educating children but so many don’t do this simple act. There are work commitments and space reasons I agree with these points taking into account todays social housing and work patterns but, many will also know it’s just bloody lazy parenting in many cases. Micro meal and sitting in front of the television eating with hands as they do in McDonald’s. Knife and fork along with toilet training are basics which there are no excuses for not teaching. Reading and writing may well depend on the child. " A million percent this!!! | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future."Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing. | |||
"How many people on here see mums and dads pushing their children in push chairs whilst taking no notice of, or interacting with the child because they are too busy on their mobile phones. If the same is happening at home how little attention and therefore educational development those children must be receiving. Not eating at a table as a family is losing a very basic way of interacting and educating children but so many don’t do this simple act. There are work commitments and space reasons I agree with these points taking into account todays social housing and work patterns but, many will also know it’s just bloody lazy parenting in many cases. Micro meal and sitting in front of the television eating with hands as they do in McDonald’s. Knife and fork along with toilet training are basics which there are no excuses for not teaching. Reading and writing may well depend on the child. A million percent this!!!" | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing. "What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards."Poverty is a very important factor | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all. "How meany children have English as a second language. They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it.. And they can count just not in English. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English."We live in England. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English.
We live in England."And? How many different languages could you speak when you were 4? | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English.
We live in England.
And? How many different languages could you speak when you were 4? "Two | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English.
We live in England.
And? How many different languages could you speak when you were 4?
Two"Of course you could, | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English.
We live in England.
And? How many different languages could you speak when you were 4?
Two
Of course you could, "And you? | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor "How is it relevant here? | |||
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"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. " As Jeremy Kyle said often "It's kids bringing kids up" | |||
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"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English.
We live in England.
And? How many different languages could you speak when you were 4?
Two
Of course you could, "Yes I could. I was taught both Welsh and English by my parents from a very young age. It is not difficult to be bilingual if your parents teach you at the time your brain is most receptive to learning. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. 46% of 4 year olds are ready for school, can use a knife and fork, are potty trained, can say their own name and communicate at a basic level, not bad. The other 54% will catch up quickly
Not bad? It is awful.
The other 54% may catch up but only by taking the teachers' time, which would be better spent teaching those whose parents have done a proper job.
Some won't catch up at all.
How meany children have English as a second language.
They can say there name just the teacher can't understand it..
And they can count just not in English.
We live in England.
And? How many different languages could you speak when you were 4?
Two
Of course you could,
Yes I could. I was taught both Welsh and English by my parents from a very young age.
It is not difficult to be bilingual if your parents teach you at the time your brain is most receptive to learning."Just ignore him  | |||
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"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?"Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept? | |||
"I recognise there are differences in countries, but I don't think cutlery became relevant at school for me until I was at least ten. (I could use cutlery at four, and when I started school at five) A lot of children take a packed lunch anyway. " Eating with fingers. | |||
"I recognise there are differences in countries, but I don't think cutlery became relevant at school for me until I was at least ten. (I could use cutlery at four, and when I started school at five) A lot of children take a packed lunch anyway. Eating with fingers. " Yep | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept? "From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally. I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that. If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that. It's not black and white. I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't. Math's and English are important. Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways.. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept?
From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally.
I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that.
If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that.
It's not black and white.
I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't.
Math's and English are important.
Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways.."If you're incapable of parenting doi become a parent | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept?
From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally.
I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that.
If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that.
It's not black and white.
I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't.
Math's and English are important.
Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways.."Yep all of that is true. Its also true its a diabolical tolerance to allow and encourage this kind of incompetence. Not least while teachers are busy wiping kids arses (don't need nay language skills fot that one) they aren't teaching. It's shameful. What society are we building? | |||
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"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor "Fab I agree or have sympathy with many/most of your posts but this one is odd. Being poor simply does not stop a parent from toilet training their kids. Or teaching the alphabet or basic numbers. | |||
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"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
Fab I agree or have sympathy with many/most of your posts but this one is odd. Being poor simply does not stop a parent from toilet training their kids. Or teaching the alphabet or basic numbers."I think there's a difference between being poor and living in poverty. | |||
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"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
Fab I agree or have sympathy with many/most of your posts but this one is odd. Being poor simply does not stop a parent from toilet training their kids. Or teaching the alphabet or basic numbers.
I think there's a difference between being poor and living in poverty. "Of course I accept that but in this context though, what is the definition of poverty if we are quoting 1 in 4 in UK and 1 in 3 in the North? | |||
" what is the definition of poverty if we are quoting 1 in 4 in UK and 1 in 3 in the North? " In England, poverty is measured by household, not per person. A household is in poverty if the combined income of the householders is less than 60% of the median household income. The median household income in England is £34,000, so the poverty line is at £20,400. In the other parts of the UK the definition involves the amount spent on energy costs, which makes everything much more difficult to calculate. | |||
" what is the definition of poverty if we are quoting 1 in 4 in UK and 1 in 3 in the North? In England, poverty is measured by household, not per person. A household is in poverty if the combined income of the householders is less than 60% of the median household income. The median household income in England is £34,000, so the poverty line is at £20,400. In the other parts of the UK the definition involves the amount spent on energy costs, which makes everything much more difficult to calculate." Thanks. So without in any way reducing the difficulties and struggles faced by anyone in that position, I still do not understand why a parent cannot toilet train their child or teach them their alphabet and basic words? | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept?
From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally.
I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that.
If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that.
It's not black and white.
I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't.
Math's and English are important.
Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways..
If you're incapable of parenting doi become a parent "How do people know if they are going to be ‘capable ‘ of being a parent ? | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept?
From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally.
I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that.
If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that.
It's not black and white.
I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't.
Math's and English are important.
Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways..
If you're incapable of parenting doi become a parent
How do people know if they are going to be ‘capable ‘ of being a parent ? "And not everyone chooses to become a parent either. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
Fab I agree or have sympathy with many/most of your posts but this one is odd. Being poor simply does not stop a parent from toilet training their kids. Or teaching the alphabet or basic numbers."True, parents ‘should’ provide the basics for any child but poverty will still be a factor. The OPs has made vague and inaccurate assumptions based on a survey . | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept?
From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally.
I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that.
If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that.
It's not black and white.
I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't.
Math's and English are important.
Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways..
If you're incapable of parenting doi become a parent
How do people know if they are going to be ‘capable ‘ of being a parent ? "Oh come on. You're telling me most people don't already have a level of self awareness of that. Good god give people some credit. | |||
"This is unfortunately the state of British society today. New parents now expect others to teach their off spring the very basics which they should be doing themselves. It must be very disheartening for teachers confronted with children who do not know how to do the basic things.!
I honestly think you are wrong, I would have expected standards to be a lot lower in the past, with things improving over time and improving even more in the future.
Unfortunately, 1 in 4 children live in poverty and it’s 1 in 3 in the North, as a society we are regressing.
What has poverty got to do with it? People can be poor but still have basic standards.
Poverty is a very important factor
How is it relevant here?
Poor people can't parent? Is that the concept?
From what I've seen poor people have more problems generally.
I have seen children as young as 4 making breakfast for parents can all 4 year olds do that.
If a couple are Turkish and talk Turkish the children's fist language is just that.
It's not black and white.
I'm dyslexic so probably could not read or right at 4 don't realy remember. But I can solve puzzles the wife with her degree can't.
Math's and English are important.
Some parents need more help. But would also add some of these parents are clever in other ways..
If you're incapable of parenting doi become a parent
How do people know if they are going to be ‘capable ‘ of being a parent ?
Oh come on. You're telling me most people don't already have a level of self awareness of that. Good god give people some credit. "What are you on about? Explain (in this context) what ‘capable ‘ means? | |||
" what is the definition of poverty if we are quoting 1 in 4 in UK and 1 in 3 in the North? In England, poverty is measured by household, not per person. A household is in poverty if the combined income of the householders is less than 60% of the median household income. The median household income in England is £34,000, so the poverty line is at £20,400. In the other parts of the UK the definition involves the amount spent on energy costs, which makes everything much more difficult to calculate. Thanks. So without in any way reducing the difficulties and struggles faced by anyone in that position, I still do not understand why a parent cannot toilet train their child or teach them their alphabet and basic words?" I think the daily grind of poverty makes everything much more difficult. We've been poor and that was hard enough but poverty is bleak, hopeless and soul destroying. Teaching a child the alphabet when both of you are hungry and cold and one of you is wondering where your next meal is coming from isn't easy. | |||
" what is the definition of poverty if we are quoting 1 in 4 in UK and 1 in 3 in the North? In England, poverty is measured by household, not per person. A household is in poverty if the combined income of the householders is less than 60% of the median household income. The median household income in England is £34,000, so the poverty line is at £20,400. In the other parts of the UK the definition involves the amount spent on energy costs, which makes everything much more difficult to calculate. Thanks. So without in any way reducing the difficulties and struggles faced by anyone in that position, I still do not understand why a parent cannot toilet train their child or teach them their alphabet and basic words? I think the daily grind of poverty makes everything much more difficult. We've been poor and that was hard enough but poverty is bleak, hopeless and soul destroying. Teaching a child the alphabet when both of you are hungry and cold and one of you is wondering where your next meal is coming from isn't easy. " True, people living in poverty are also more likely to have physical and mental health problems | |||
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"I'm sure everybody has different circumstances to contend with. Whether that's health, personal relationships, wealth. That may make looking after our kids more challenging. But we can't use those as excuses for not helping them to be the best version of them they can be and setting them up for their best life. For those who genuinely struggle or are unable to that... Then they must be helped. But it can't fall on teachers...and parents need to do their bit. " I agree, | |||
"I'm sure everybody has different circumstances to contend with. Whether that's health, personal relationships, wealth. That may make looking after our kids more challenging. But we can't use those as excuses for not helping them to be the best version of them they can be and setting them up for their best life. For those who genuinely struggle or are unable to that... Then they must be helped. But it can't fall on teachers...and parents need to do their bit. " I wonder how many of the teachers taught the parents of the children they claim are not ready for school. I'm still not buying this 54% of children cant do all of those things. The devil is the detail... | |||
"I'm sure everybody has different circumstances to contend with. Whether that's health, personal relationships, wealth. That may make looking after our kids more challenging. But we can't use those as excuses for not helping them to be the best version of them they can be and setting them up for their best life. For those who genuinely struggle or are unable to that... Then they must be helped. But it can't fall on teachers...and parents need to do their bit. I wonder how many of the teachers taught the parents of the children they claim are not ready for school. I'm still not buying this 54% of children cant do all of those things. The devil is the detail..." What does it have to do with the teachers.? It's the role and responsibility of the parent. As for the likelihood of teachers teaching multiple generations of the same family... Sounds like a TV show script. | |||
"I'm still not buying this 54% of children cant do all of those things. The devil is the detail..." No one has made that claim. The original claim is that 54% of children have some sort of problem that makes schooling difficult. The things listed were just examples of some things that some children can't do. | |||
"I'm still not buying this 54% of children cant do all of those things. The devil is the detail... No one has made that claim. The original claim is that 54% of children have some sort of problem that makes schooling difficult. The things listed were just examples of some things that some children can't do." While searching on line for background information on this I came across reporting that claimed it was 'nearly half of all children's '54% of children's '46% of children '. Then phrases such as ' nearly one in three teachers' were used. Basically actual numbers and reasons for those numbers are not available | |||
"I'm still not buying this 54% of children cant do all of those things. The devil is the detail... No one has made that claim. The original claim is that 54% of children have some sort of problem that makes schooling difficult. The things listed were just examples of some things that some children can't do. While searching on line for background information on this I came across reporting that claimed it was 'nearly half of all children's '54% of children's '46% of children '. Then phrases such as ' nearly one in three teachers' were used. Basically actual numbers and reasons for those numbers are not available " Exactly this
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"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? " They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning..." You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. | |||
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"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. " It's the new national past time. Also, much virtue signalling goes on around parenting. I could tell everyone how my children could all read and write, were verbose and slept all night with no bedwetting by the time they were 3. I had plenty of time as a stay at home parent to be there for these things. As for children being potty trained before 2; children can't usually control their bladder before they are 2, and I didn't use a potty; mine went straight on the toilet, because I can't stand potties. | |||
"Is this 54% of children in schools in deprived areas, or did they poll every school in the UK? " I read that it was 1000 teachers. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. It's the new national past time. Also, much virtue signalling goes on around parenting. I could tell everyone how my children could all read and write, were verbose and slept all night with no bedwetting by the time they were 3. I had plenty of time as a stay at home parent to be there for these things. As for children being potty trained before 2; children can't usually control their bladder before they are 2, and I didn't use a potty; mine went straight on the toilet, because I can't stand potties. " Our kids couldn't read, write or add up when they started school. They could count but I'm not sure they understood the concept of counting or if they were just repeating words in a sequence that they'd heard. They could do a lot of things and were both able to contribute to their learning. One of them needed speech therapy so would probably have been included in the children who had difficulty communicating. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning..." You are living in the past, | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. " Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You are living in the past, "How so? Don't tell me that's just what happens nowadays... | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions?" That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them" Going back to the point about kids being glued to screens. Whether it's educational or otherwise. I think kids being encouraged to hide behind screens and disengage from social settings isn't a good habit for them or us. It's isolating and just embeds unhelpful behaviours. If they need to have the valium of a screen to make them sit still for an hour in a restaurant... Thats equally as toxic. We wonder why we have teens and increasing mental and emotional well being issues. Everything we seem to do is encouraging them towards isolation and not speaking and not socialising. Glory be to the restaurant that says no devices here... Eat drink and be merry. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. " many off them will be out at work in dead end minimum wage jobs just to cover thier bills | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them Going back to the point about kids being glued to screens. Whether it's educational or otherwise. I think kids being encouraged to hide behind screens and disengage from social settings isn't a good habit for them or us. It's isolating and just embeds unhelpful behaviours. If they need to have the valium of a screen to make them sit still for an hour in a restaurant... Thats equally as toxic. We wonder why we have teens and increasing mental and emotional well being issues. Everything we seem to do is encouraging them towards isolation and not speaking and not socialising. Glory be to the restaurant that says no devices here... Eat drink and be merry. " I'm half in agreement with you but then I look at a thread advocating banning children from pubs outside certain hours because they're a nuisance. In an ideal world we'd all be perfect parents, engaging our children in jolly socialising conversation around the table in restaurants but life ain't like that. In general people only want well behaved children at the table next them. The point I'm trying to make throughout this thread is that criticising parents while sometimes reasonable, isn't the answer unless you also look at reasons behind the behaviour and offer solutions. When our kids were little one of them went through a stage of throwing spectacular tantrums. Of all the times it happened when I was out on my own with them loads of people looked and tutted or actually made negative comments. Only one woman approached me and offered help. If a device educational or not would have kept them quiet and shut the tutters up I'd have used it and made no apology for it. Lady who approached me in the street and told me my child was giving her a headache and woman who told me I should keep my child on reins the above is for you | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them Going back to the point about kids being glued to screens. Whether it's educational or otherwise. I think kids being encouraged to hide behind screens and disengage from social settings isn't a good habit for them or us. It's isolating and just embeds unhelpful behaviours. If they need to have the valium of a screen to make them sit still for an hour in a restaurant... Thats equally as toxic. We wonder why we have teens and increasing mental and emotional well being issues. Everything we seem to do is encouraging them towards isolation and not speaking and not socialising. Glory be to the restaurant that says no devices here... Eat drink and be merry. I'm half in agreement with you but then I look at a thread advocating banning children from pubs outside certain hours because they're a nuisance. In an ideal world we'd all be perfect parents, engaging our children in jolly socialising conversation around the table in restaurants but life ain't like that. In general people only want well behaved children at the table next them. The point I'm trying to make throughout this thread is that criticising parents while sometimes reasonable, isn't the answer unless you also look at reasons behind the behaviour and offer solutions. When our kids were little one of them went through a stage of throwing spectacular tantrums. Of all the times it happened when I was out on my own with them loads of people looked and tutted or actually made negative comments. Only one woman approached me and offered help. If a device educational or not would have kept them quiet and shut the tutters up I'd have used it and made no apology for it. Lady who approached me in the street and told me my child was giving her a headache and woman who told me I should keep my child on reins the above is for you "The modern day pacifier. Give them a dummy. Maybe some drugs... Yes it's not easy for most parents. But abrogating responsibilities as a parent because you work or because they aren't perfect or because your life isn't perfect is not the answer. If people have kids they are their responsibility. While at school they are on the schools premises and their responsibility. Other people shouldn't be expected or forced to bring up your kids. If others offer to help (and would be great if they can and do) then all the better. Much like a pet dog. If you don't house train it... Nobody else is going to. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. many off them will be out at work in dead end minimum wage jobs just to cover thier bills " As an adult and a parent. You're expected and obliged to do both... For your family and children. Its life. | |||
"They are 4yrs of age for fçksake should be nowhere near a school,let them be the weans that they are ." This post in direct contrast to others who think their children should be able to read simple sentences by age 4 shows one of the reasons there is such disparity Is a paid place at nursery from age 3 only a thing in Scotland? I thought the purpose of that was to start kids at school with a more even footing but it doesnt seem to be referenced in the thread so might not be UK wide | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them Going back to the point about kids being glued to screens. Whether it's educational or otherwise. I think kids being encouraged to hide behind screens and disengage from social settings isn't a good habit for them or us. It's isolating and just embeds unhelpful behaviours. If they need to have the valium of a screen to make them sit still for an hour in a restaurant... Thats equally as toxic. We wonder why we have teens and increasing mental and emotional well being issues. Everything we seem to do is encouraging them towards isolation and not speaking and not socialising. Glory be to the restaurant that says no devices here... Eat drink and be merry. I'm half in agreement with you but then I look at a thread advocating banning children from pubs outside certain hours because they're a nuisance. In an ideal world we'd all be perfect parents, engaging our children in jolly socialising conversation around the table in restaurants but life ain't like that. In general people only want well behaved children at the table next them. The point I'm trying to make throughout this thread is that criticising parents while sometimes reasonable, isn't the answer unless you also look at reasons behind the behaviour and offer solutions. When our kids were little one of them went through a stage of throwing spectacular tantrums. Of all the times it happened when I was out on my own with them loads of people looked and tutted or actually made negative comments. Only one woman approached me and offered help. If a device educational or not would have kept them quiet and shut the tutters up I'd have used it and made no apology for it. Lady who approached me in the street and told me my child was giving her a headache and woman who told me I should keep my child on reins the above is for you
The modern day pacifier. Give them a dummy. Maybe some drugs... Yes it's not easy for most parents. But abrogating responsibilities as a parent because you work or because they aren't perfect or because your life isn't perfect is not the answer.
If people have kids they are their responsibility. While at school they are on the schools premises and their responsibility. Other people shouldn't be expected or forced to bring up your kids.
If others offer to help (and would be great if they can and do) then all the better. Much like a pet dog. If you don't house train it... Nobody else is going to. "Again to an extent I agree but isn't society as a whole also responsible for children? We took responsibility for our kids but so did our wider family and to a small extent our friends. Supoort, encouragement and help to a long way. I do agree that every parent *where possible* should ensure their children arrive at school equipped to learn. They're not according to this poll although the actual percentages are a bit vague. Why is this, what can be done? Pointing the finger and criticising obviously isn't working. | |||
"They are 4yrs of age for fçksake should be nowhere near a school,let them be the weans that they are . This post in direct contrast to others who think their children should be able to read simple sentences by age 4 shows one of the reasons there is such disparity Is a paid place at nursery from age 3 only a thing in Scotland? I thought the purpose of that was to start kids at school with a more even footing but it doesnt seem to be referenced in the thread so might not be UK wide " That's a really good point. Different countries start "school" at different ages don't they? Still not sure it's fair to dump our kids on strangers if we haven't done our side of the bargain. | |||
"They are 4yrs of age for fçksake should be nowhere near a school,let them be the weans that they are . This post in direct contrast to others who think their children should be able to read simple sentences by age 4 shows one of the reasons there is such disparity Is a paid place at nursery from age 3 only a thing in Scotland? I thought the purpose of that was to start kids at school with a more even footing but it doesnt seem to be referenced in the thread so might not be UK wide That's a really good point. Different countries start "school" at different ages don't they? Still not sure it's fair to dump our kids on strangers if we haven't done our side of the bargain. " Agreed but where you have the examples of parents who are not able (be it no english, too busy working , dealing with their own health problems or other examples from above ) , or unwilling because they disagree like the post i quoted … that nursery place should help some of those kids to catch up so they don’t start proper education too far behind. | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them Going back to the point about kids being glued to screens. Whether it's educational or otherwise. I think kids being encouraged to hide behind screens and disengage from social settings isn't a good habit for them or us. It's isolating and just embeds unhelpful behaviours. If they need to have the valium of a screen to make them sit still for an hour in a restaurant... Thats equally as toxic. We wonder why we have teens and increasing mental and emotional well being issues. Everything we seem to do is encouraging them towards isolation and not speaking and not socialising. Glory be to the restaurant that says no devices here... Eat drink and be merry. I'm half in agreement with you but then I look at a thread advocating banning children from pubs outside certain hours because they're a nuisance. In an ideal world we'd all be perfect parents, engaging our children in jolly socialising conversation around the table in restaurants but life ain't like that. In general people only want well behaved children at the table next them. The point I'm trying to make throughout this thread is that criticising parents while sometimes reasonable, isn't the answer unless you also look at reasons behind the behaviour and offer solutions. When our kids were little one of them went through a stage of throwing spectacular tantrums. Of all the times it happened when I was out on my own with them loads of people looked and tutted or actually made negative comments. Only one woman approached me and offered help. If a device educational or not would have kept them quiet and shut the tutters up I'd have used it and made no apology for it. Lady who approached me in the street and told me my child was giving her a headache and woman who told me I should keep my child on reins the above is for you
The modern day pacifier. Give them a dummy. Maybe some drugs... Yes it's not easy for most parents. But abrogating responsibilities as a parent because you work or because they aren't perfect or because your life isn't perfect is not the answer.
If people have kids they are their responsibility. While at school they are on the schools premises and their responsibility. Other people shouldn't be expected or forced to bring up your kids.
If others offer to help (and would be great if they can and do) then all the better. Much like a pet dog. If you don't house train it... Nobody else is going to.
Again to an extent I agree but isn't society as a whole also responsible for children? We took responsibility for our kids but so did our wider family and to a small extent our friends. Supoort, encouragement and help to a long way.
I do agree that every parent *where possible* should ensure their children arrive at school equipped to learn.
They're not according to this poll although the actual percentages are a bit vague. Why is this, what can be done? Pointing the finger and criticising obviously isn't working. "Agree with that. The "it takes a village to raise a kid".. Yep. Yet everything we seems to do move away from that. I may be wrong but most of my parenting "skills" came from what I learned from my own parents and friends...repeat what worked well... Tweak what didn't work so well and don't do the stuff you disagree with. So if a kids got some pretty average parents. They are going to repeat the same with their own? Does it work that way? Maybe.? Don't know but for sure we would be better letting teachers teach and letting parents parent. | |||
"They are 4yrs of age for fçksake should be nowhere near a school,let them be the weans that they are . This post in direct contrast to others who think their children should be able to read simple sentences by age 4 shows one of the reasons there is such disparity Is a paid place at nursery from age 3 only a thing in Scotland? I thought the purpose of that was to start kids at school with a more even footing but it doesnt seem to be referenced in the thread so might not be UK wide That's a really good point. Different countries start "school" at different ages don't they? Still not sure it's fair to dump our kids on strangers if we haven't done our side of the bargain. Agreed but where you have the examples of parents who are not able (be it no english, too busy working , dealing with their own health problems or other examples from above ) , or unwilling because they disagree like the post i quoted … that nursery place should help some of those kids to catch up so they don’t start proper education too far behind. " Yep. Now... Explore that a bit more. Parent has child. Can't or won't parent so drops it to nursery. The kid is better for the experience (in theory)... What happens with the non functioning parent? Anything? They have a other one... Still can't parent... Drop it off at nursery... Is that a model we want to encourage... I don't know. People aren't perfect but I think we seem to be getting addicted to all the work arounds rather than address the cause. | |||
"They are 4yrs of age for fçksake should be nowhere near a school,let them be the weans that they are . This post in direct contrast to others who think their children should be able to read simple sentences by age 4 shows one of the reasons there is such disparity Is a paid place at nursery from age 3 only a thing in Scotland? I thought the purpose of that was to start kids at school with a more even footing but it doesnt seem to be referenced in the thread so might not be UK wide That's a really good point. Different countries start "school" at different ages don't they? Still not sure it's fair to dump our kids on strangers if we haven't done our side of the bargain. Agreed but where you have the examples of parents who are not able (be it no english, too busy working , dealing with their own health problems or other examples from above ) , or unwilling because they disagree like the post i quoted … that nursery place should help some of those kids to catch up so they don’t start proper education too far behind. Yep. Now... Explore that a bit more. Parent has child. Can't or won't parent so drops it to nursery. The kid is better for the experience (in theory)... What happens with the non functioning parent? Anything? They have a other one... Still can't parent... Drop it off at nursery... Is that a model we want to encourage... I don't know. People aren't perfect but I think we seem to be getting addicted to all the work arounds rather than address the cause. " How would you address the cause with a solution that would work? | |||
"They are 4yrs of age for fçksake should be nowhere near a school,let them be the weans that they are . This post in direct contrast to others who think their children should be able to read simple sentences by age 4 shows one of the reasons there is such disparity Is a paid place at nursery from age 3 only a thing in Scotland? I thought the purpose of that was to start kids at school with a more even footing but it doesnt seem to be referenced in the thread so might not be UK wide That's a really good point. Different countries start "school" at different ages don't they? Still not sure it's fair to dump our kids on strangers if we haven't done our side of the bargain. Agreed but where you have the examples of parents who are not able (be it no english, too busy working , dealing with their own health problems or other examples from above ) , or unwilling because they disagree like the post i quoted … that nursery place should help some of those kids to catch up so they don’t start proper education too far behind. Yep. Now... Explore that a bit more. Parent has child. Can't or won't parent so drops it to nursery. The kid is better for the experience (in theory)... What happens with the non functioning parent? Anything? They have a other one... Still can't parent... Drop it off at nursery... Is that a model we want to encourage... I don't know. People aren't perfect but I think we seem to be getting addicted to all the work arounds rather than address the cause. " It will happen wether there is a workaround or not. It doesn’t address disengaged parenting or possible the reasons for it It just gives the kids a fighting chance despite their home circumstances and thats why you do it | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them Going back to the point about kids being glued to screens. Whether it's educational or otherwise. I think kids being encouraged to hide behind screens and disengage from social settings isn't a good habit for them or us. It's isolating and just embeds unhelpful behaviours. If they need to have the valium of a screen to make them sit still for an hour in a restaurant... Thats equally as toxic. We wonder why we have teens and increasing mental and emotional well being issues. Everything we seem to do is encouraging them towards isolation and not speaking and not socialising. Glory be to the restaurant that says no devices here... Eat drink and be merry. I'm half in agreement with you but then I look at a thread advocating banning children from pubs outside certain hours because they're a nuisance. In an ideal world we'd all be perfect parents, engaging our children in jolly socialising conversation around the table in restaurants but life ain't like that. In general people only want well behaved children at the table next them. The point I'm trying to make throughout this thread is that criticising parents while sometimes reasonable, isn't the answer unless you also look at reasons behind the behaviour and offer solutions. When our kids were little one of them went through a stage of throwing spectacular tantrums. Of all the times it happened when I was out on my own with them loads of people looked and tutted or actually made negative comments. Only one woman approached me and offered help. If a device educational or not would have kept them quiet and shut the tutters up I'd have used it and made no apology for it. Lady who approached me in the street and told me my child was giving her a headache and woman who told me I should keep my child on reins the above is for you
The modern day pacifier. Give them a dummy. Maybe some drugs... Yes it's not easy for most parents. But abrogating responsibilities as a parent because you work or because they aren't perfect or because your life isn't perfect is not the answer.
If people have kids they are their responsibility. While at school they are on the schools premises and their responsibility. Other people shouldn't be expected or forced to bring up your kids.
If others offer to help (and would be great if they can and do) then all the better. Much like a pet dog. If you don't house train it... Nobody else is going to.
Again to an extent I agree but isn't society as a whole also responsible for children? We took responsibility for our kids but so did our wider family and to a small extent our friends. Supoort, encouragement and help to a long way.
I do agree that every parent *where possible* should ensure their children arrive at school equipped to learn.
They're not according to this poll although the actual percentages are a bit vague. Why is this, what can be done? Pointing the finger and criticising obviously isn't working.
Agree with that. The "it takes a village to raise a kid".. Yep. Yet everything we seems to do move away from that. I may be wrong but most of my parenting "skills" came from what I learned from my own parents and friends...repeat what worked well... Tweak what didn't work so well and don't do the stuff you disagree with.
So if a kids got some pretty average parents.
They are going to repeat the same with their own? Does it work that way? Maybe.? Don't know but for sure we would be better letting teachers teach and letting parents parent. "Agreed *if they are able/willing/capable* of doing either job properly. There also seem to be a few people who think children should be taught to read and write by their parents and people who feel that schools should teach manner and respect. Where is the line drawn? | |||
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""There also seem to be a few people who think children should be taught to read and write by their parents and people who feel that schools should teach manner and respect. Where is the line drawn?" I'm not sure there are lines so much as fuzzy areas of overlap. What do we want from our children's education? And what motivates that? Parents and teachers work together ideally. Each case is unique. If my child wanted to learn early. I'd challenge them. If they didn't I wouldn't. But there have to be minimum standards of entry to allow teachers to teach. If they aren't ready then they aren't ready. End of the day is our country quality resources that are appropriate for them to have a happy healthy life and to attract desirable companies, that meet our long term strategy, to set up shop here rather than another country. " I don't know the answer to that but I suspect not. I think access to private education or additional tutoring certainly gives you an advantage and therefore makes certain people more likely to fit the criteria to achieve the things your last paragraph sets out. As does engaged parents/wider family, access to books, people willing to help you achieve your potential etc. However I see a culture of us and them, an unwillingness to give people a hand up and an every man for himself attitude that isn't going to encourage any of it to improve or change. | |||
""There also seem to be a few people who think children should be taught to read and write by their parents and people who feel that schools should teach manner and respect. Where is the line drawn?" I'm not sure there are lines so much as fuzzy areas of overlap. What do we want from our children's education? And what motivates that? Parents and teachers work together ideally. Each case is unique. If my child wanted to learn early. I'd challenge them. If they didn't I wouldn't. But there have to be minimum standards of entry to allow teachers to teach. If they aren't ready then they aren't ready. End of the day is our country quality resources that are appropriate for them to have a happy healthy life and to attract desirable companies, that meet our long term strategy, to set up shop here rather than another country. I don't know the answer to that but I suspect not. I think access to private education or additional tutoring certainly gives you an advantage and therefore makes certain people more likely to fit the criteria to achieve the things your last paragraph sets out. As does engaged parents/wider family, access to books, people willing to help you achieve your potential etc. However I see a culture of us and them, an unwillingness to give people a hand up and an every man for himself attitude that isn't going to encourage any of it to improve or change. " Maybe. I see also some who make their best efforts and some who really don't. We seem to have adopted a culture in this country now to make excuses and rather than encourage those who are able to fly... To go and be their best... We seem more aspirational to clip their wings.. Because some people can't... Therefore we must ensure nobody can... Otherwise it might upset people. Its a very toxic message and leads to a race to the bottom and "levelling down". And yes of course it is behoven on those more able to encourage those less able. | |||
""There also seem to be a few people who think children should be taught to read and write by their parents and people who feel that schools should teach manner and respect. Where is the line drawn?" I'm not sure there are lines so much as fuzzy areas of overlap. What do we want from our children's education? And what motivates that? Parents and teachers work together ideally. Each case is unique. If my child wanted to learn early. I'd challenge them. If they didn't I wouldn't. But there have to be minimum standards of entry to allow teachers to teach. If they aren't ready then they aren't ready. End of the day is our country quality resources that are appropriate for them to have a happy healthy life and to attract desirable companies, that meet our long term strategy, to set up shop here rather than another country. I don't know the answer to that but I suspect not. I think access to private education or additional tutoring certainly gives you an advantage and therefore makes certain people more likely to fit the criteria to achieve the things your last paragraph sets out. As does engaged parents/wider family, access to books, people willing to help you achieve your potential etc. However I see a culture of us and them, an unwillingness to give people a hand up and an every man for himself attitude that isn't going to encourage any of it to improve or change. Maybe. I see also some who make their best efforts and some who really don't. We seem to have adopted a culture in this country now to make excuses and rather than encourage those who are able to fly... To go and be their best... We seem more aspirational to clip their wings.. Because some people can't... Therefore we must ensure nobody can... Otherwise it might upset people. Its a very toxic message and leads to a race to the bottom and "levelling down". And yes of course it is behoven on those more able to encourage those less able. " I dont think it is levelling down at all. If parents were going to teach their kids basic words , tying their shoes and wiping their arse , it is incomprehensible that they would just not bother because they found out the nursery might teach them instead Its not an example of something that brings everyones standards down. All it does it try to make sure the ones without dont start too far behind, perpetuating the cycle | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Parenting by tv/tablets/phones. Boils my piss the amount of toddlers sat in restaurants with a screen glued to their faces! Why? They might be playing educational games or watching educational programmes?? They have plenty of time to play educational games. What might be a benefit is for them to learn to sit and engage in conversation. It's call socialising and it's just as beneficial as educational games on a tablet...and let's be honest, how many kids are playing truly educational games on their devices? Loads of "educational" games out that that an not at all educational and in some case detrimental to their learning... You're assuming an awful lot here. Often when we took our kids to a restaurant we took books and drawing stuff with us to occupy them if they became bored or we wanted a little adult conversation or they became a bit fractious. Other diners are very quick to criticise if your kids are playing up. In fact people are very quick to criticise parents anyway. Perhaps you could point out some of the assumptions? That these children aren't sitting and engaging in conversation at other times. You ask rhetorically I guess, how many are playing truly educational games as if it's a foregone conclusion that the majority of them won't be. You state that loads of educational games are detrimental to learning. Basically you've assumed that what you see in a restaurant is representative of the entirety of a child's life and their parent's attitude to raising them" A meal time at a restaurant is a social time. I haven't made any comment about time outside of the restaurant so how am I assuming they aren't interacting at other times? Regarding the games, I could create an "educational" game that teaches a child how to read. However, regardless of how good that game might be, if the child's teacher is using a different method of teaching that child then the game can be detrimental. The game might appear to be fun and interesting but I have no experience in educating children. | |||
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"Media puts out a number from a single survey and everyone assume its nationwide? How easily manipulated are you? "It's from the 1000 teachers polled isn't it? Are you saying it's not valid? | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. " Working? | |||
"According to a YouGov poll. Issues included not being potty trained, being unable to eat with a knife and fork, inability to say their own name or communicate properly. The survey didn't mention other basic skills children should have learnt by then such as reading, writing and maths. WTF are parents doing? Certainly not parenting. Working? " Can't do both then? | |||
