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Raab: erm... how many?
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"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country." Lovely bit of victim blaming there. Cheers  | |||
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"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country." No, but when it falls to a choice, stay and pay the mortgage or walk into the unknown abyss of making yourself unemployed and not qualify for any employment benefits and loose your house - it kinda sucks. Got that T Shirt in 2004, refused to work for anyone since, only myself. When you work for someone wanting you to take life threatening risks to yourself or colleagues on threats of being pushed out for refusing to save the company a few quid. Or gives you a bollocking for calling the police to a farmer with a brain tumor affecting his behaviour - who's just stuffed loaded, cocked unlicensed double barrel shotgun to the back of your throat, just because he doesn't want access through his land revoking - just maybe, you'd understand. | |||
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"Resportedly, at least 24 civil servants are involved in complaints against Raab. At the most severe end of the scale, people were left feeling suicidal by his alleged behaviour. Still... we all know the mantra by now. Nothing to see here..." What's he been found guilty of? | |||
"Resportedly, at least 24 civil servants are involved in complaints against Raab. At the most severe end of the scale, people were left feeling suicidal by his alleged behaviour. Still... we all know the mantra by now. Nothing to see here... What's he been found guilty of?" Are you actually this naive? Or are you just pretending? The whole we need a full inquiry to gather all the facts is the oldest trick in the book. Time & time again, political leaders have pulled this. It's an excuse to kick it into the long grass & let a story die down. Then they release a useless & compromised report & do bugger all. | |||
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"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country." I mean leaving a job with the economic stability that the civil service offers, for what? Nothing? Hoping you find something better? That's going to raise questions with future employers. Plus, that old adage, easier to find new work when youre already in work. I really think you need to get a grip and realise that if you're a normal person, with normal labour market value, giving up a decent job, because your boss is a cunt, can be a very big pill to swallow. | |||
"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country. I mean leaving a job with the economic stability that the civil service offers, for what? Nothing? Hoping you find something better? That's going to raise questions with future employers. Plus, that old adage, easier to find new work when youre already in work. I really think you need to get a grip and realise that if you're a normal person, with normal labour market value, giving up a decent job, because your boss is a cunt, can be a very big pill to swallow." Having a bullying boss eventually fucks you up and this makes you poorer and less employable so let’s be honest and stop pretending that everyone can get on their bike and find a new job that either pays as well or has the security of a civil service job. I walked out of a pressurised job in my early thirties with two kids and a mortgage and I was told by my boss that I was only fit to be a cab driver and that I wasn’t going to get paid any of the healthy bonus I was due. It took me six months to get over it and a further year to pull myself back to the same level of income and in the meantime I burnt through most of my savings. The guy was a cunt and treated me shabbily and bad mouthed me all over town so I changed career to get past it but it still fucks me off to this day! | |||
"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country." There are 650 ‘work related’ suicides every year | |||
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"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country." Sadly this displays a complete lack of empathy. Are you really unable to understand why it might be difficult for someone to leave a job? Are you unable to distinguish who is at fault and should have to make changes as a consequence of their actions? | |||
"Resportedly, at least 24 civil servants are involved in complaints against Raab. At the most severe end of the scale, people were left feeling suicidal by his alleged behaviour. Still... we all know the mantra by now. Nothing to see here... What's he been found guilty of?" Preeti Patel was not found "guilty" of anything. Claims against her for bullying were settled. It was at the Prime Minister's discretion, and her own conscience (such as it is). 'Sir Alex found that she had not consistently met the high standards required by the ministerial code of treating her civil servants with consideration and respect and cited examples of "shouting and swearing". "Her approach on occasions has amounted to behaviour that can be described as bullying in terms of the impact felt by individuals."' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59547080.amp So, Raab doesn't have to be "guilty" of anything either. If you're resorting to legal definitions then you're already in a bad place. | |||
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"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it." You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem." I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is." Complete lack of empathy. You said it... | |||
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"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is." It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy | |||
"Out of curiosity: what would you say to a child who was bullied to suicide? Would you blame them for not leaving school or not leaving social media? Their fault for being too soft too?" We're not talking about children  | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy "Bully? 
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
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"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
"I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought! | |||
"Suicidal? A bit of an embellishment don't you think? Nobody holds a gun to your head to stay in your job if you don't like your boss in this country." Except ministers change pretty regularly, leaving isn't really intuitive. They have mortgages and a life, just leaving may not have been an option. Bullying staff is not obligatory. Don't blame the staff for staying, blame the bully. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought! "Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment. | |||
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"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment."Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it. You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem. You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft". I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means."I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied. Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means."I am actually saying that society is soft and perceived bullying is because of that. Not all cases of bullying are actually bullying. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I am actually saying that society is soft and perceived bullying is because of that. Not all cases of bullying are actually bullying.
"I suspect Dominic Raab is very much the archetypal bully. I’d be prepared to bet on it! | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
"You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job". You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft". There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying. That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault. Wow. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow."Get your ducks lined up before pulling the trigger..... | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow."You read what you wanna read | |||
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"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read "I read what you write. The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft". Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted. There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs. You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation. What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully? | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?"You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument. And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully? | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?""Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft". You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few; Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied. A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else. Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable. A very specialist skillset. Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere. Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country. You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim."Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you. So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them? I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted. As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask. | |||
| |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask."SOME people are "soft", not people in general. Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you? You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake. You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft". What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job? Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"? Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons". Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask.
SOME people are "soft", not people in general.
Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you?
You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake.
You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft".
What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job?
Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"?
Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons".
Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy."Society in general has become soft. You can define 'pandering' as you wish, I know you will. You could say its normal people not putting with people treating them poorly. Just as I could say, people have got softer. It's a difference of opinion, not sure why your nose is so far out of joint. Did I think that bullying is a perceived problem or did I say is it always bullying? Or could it be perceived that way? Clearly to know whether its actual bullying it would need to be assessed on a case basis case basis. So far you've told me I'm a bully, what I think, what I'm saying, as well trying to twist my words. And you try to play on people's metal health with your sarcasm. Who's the bully? Or am I just perceiving it to be that way? | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask.
SOME people are "soft", not people in general.
Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you?
You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake.
You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft".
What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job?
Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"?
Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons".
Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy.
Society in general has become soft.
You can define 'pandering' as you wish, I know you will. You could say its normal people not putting with people treating them poorly. Just as I could say, people have got softer. It's a difference of opinion, not sure why your nose is so far out of joint.
Did I think that bullying is a perceived problem or did I say is it always bullying? Or could it be perceived that way?
Clearly to know whether its actual bullying it would need to be assessed on a case basis case basis.
So far you've told me I'm a bully, what I think, what I'm saying, as well trying to twist my words.
And you try to play on people's metal health with your sarcasm.
Who's the bully? Or am I just perceiving it to be that way?"You are dancing on a pin now. Quite right is taken on a case by case basis. You perceive " softness". Bullying is an abuse of the relationship between the person in power and the person who is not. You can see and explain the perspective of someone accused of being a bully, but not someone who feels victimised. You have demonstrated that at length and in depth. You can explain why something can be "perceived" as bullying when it isn't, but you cannot explain why someone can believe that they are being bullied or why they can find it easy, or why they they may not find it possible to "just find another job". I didn't say that you are a bully. No words "twisted". You have confirmed that you mean what you have written. I have not "played" on anyone's mental health either. What are you talking about? Perhaps you do not express yourself as perfectly and clearly as you believe? | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask.
SOME people are "soft", not people in general.
Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you?
You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake.
You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft".
What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job?
Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"?
Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons".
Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy.
Society in general has become soft.
You can define 'pandering' as you wish, I know you will. You could say its normal people not putting with people treating them poorly. Just as I could say, people have got softer. It's a difference of opinion, not sure why your nose is so far out of joint.
Did I think that bullying is a perceived problem or did I say is it always bullying? Or could it be perceived that way?
Clearly to know whether its actual bullying it would need to be assessed on a case basis case basis.
So far you've told me I'm a bully, what I think, what I'm saying, as well trying to twist my words.
And you try to play on people's metal health with your sarcasm.
Who's the bully? Or am I just perceiving it to be that way?
You are dancing on a pin now.
Quite right is taken on a case by case basis. You perceive " softness". Bullying is an abuse of the relationship between the person in power and the person who is not.
You can see and explain the perspective of someone accused of being a bully, but not someone who feels victimised. You have demonstrated that at length and in depth. You can explain why something can be "perceived" as bullying when it isn't, but you cannot explain why someone can believe that they are being bullied or why they can find it easy, or why they they may not find it possible to "just find another job".
I didn't say that you are a bully. No words "twisted". You have confirmed that you mean what you have written.
I have not "played" on anyone's mental health either. What are you talking about?
Perhaps you do not express yourself as perfectly and clearly as you believe?"Most of that is waffle so i won't bother with it but ill address the mental health issue. Your sarcastic words were 'Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.' Perhaps I express myself just fine but you like try to belittle rather than see the other perspective. I'll ask again, who's the bully? | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask.
SOME people are "soft", not people in general.
Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you?
You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake.
You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft".
What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job?
Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"?
Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons".
Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy.
Society in general has become soft.
You can define 'pandering' as you wish, I know you will. You could say its normal people not putting with people treating them poorly. Just as I could say, people have got softer. It's a difference of opinion, not sure why your nose is so far out of joint.
Did I think that bullying is a perceived problem or did I say is it always bullying? Or could it be perceived that way?
Clearly to know whether its actual bullying it would need to be assessed on a case basis case basis.
So far you've told me I'm a bully, what I think, what I'm saying, as well trying to twist my words.
And you try to play on people's metal health with your sarcasm.
Who's the bully? Or am I just perceiving it to be that way?
You are dancing on a pin now.
Quite right is taken on a case by case basis. You perceive " softness". Bullying is an abuse of the relationship between the person in power and the person who is not.
You can see and explain the perspective of someone accused of being a bully, but not someone who feels victimised. You have demonstrated that at length and in depth. You can explain why something can be "perceived" as bullying when it isn't, but you cannot explain why someone can believe that they are being bullied or why they can find it easy, or why they they may not find it possible to "just find another job".
I didn't say that you are a bully. No words "twisted". You have confirmed that you mean what you have written.
I have not "played" on anyone's mental health either. What are you talking about?
Perhaps you do not express yourself as perfectly and clearly as you believe?
Most of that is waffle so i won't bother with it but ill address the mental health issue.
Your sarcastic words were 'Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.'
Perhaps I express myself just fine but you like try to belittle rather than see the other perspective.
I'll ask again, who's the bully?"Ah, dismissing all of those difficult to address points as "waffle". Unarguable. Oh, you want to go back to something written says ago to try to win a point? Yes, my words were sarcastic. It was a direct criticism of the attitude that you were expressing not a "play" on mental illness. Something that you have dismissed as "softness" and another "excuse" for not finding another job. I do not know why you think you are being "belittled" by someone with no power over you who you've never met. Especially as you are not in any way "soft". Imagine how it would be if I was your boss and I treated you like this every day, but you needed to keep your job? Dominic Raab is the bully. Did you miss the title of the thread? Perhaps he's just "perceived" to be a bulky by the many people who have complained about his behaviour? | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask.
SOME people are "soft", not people in general.
Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you?
You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake.
You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft".
What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job?
Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"?
Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons".
Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy.
Society in general has become soft.
You can define 'pandering' as you wish, I know you will. You could say its normal people not putting with people treating them poorly. Just as I could say, people have got softer. It's a difference of opinion, not sure why your nose is so far out of joint.
Did I think that bullying is a perceived problem or did I say is it always bullying? Or could it be perceived that way?
Clearly to know whether its actual bullying it would need to be assessed on a case basis case basis.
So far you've told me I'm a bully, what I think, what I'm saying, as well trying to twist my words.
And you try to play on people's metal health with your sarcasm.
Who's the bully? Or am I just perceiving it to be that way?
You are dancing on a pin now.
Quite right is taken on a case by case basis. You perceive " softness". Bullying is an abuse of the relationship between the person in power and the person who is not.
You can see and explain the perspective of someone accused of being a bully, but not someone who feels victimised. You have demonstrated that at length and in depth. You can explain why something can be "perceived" as bullying when it isn't, but you cannot explain why someone can believe that they are being bullied or why they can find it easy, or why they they may not find it possible to "just find another job".
I didn't say that you are a bully. No words "twisted". You have confirmed that you mean what you have written.
I have not "played" on anyone's mental health either. What are you talking about?
Perhaps you do not express yourself as perfectly and clearly as you believe?
Most of that is waffle so i won't bother with it but ill address the mental health issue.
Your sarcastic words were 'Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.'
Perhaps I express myself just fine but you like try to belittle rather than see the other perspective.
I'll ask again, who's the bully?
Ah, dismissing all of those difficult to address points as "waffle". Unarguable.
Oh, you want to go back to something written says ago to try to win a point?
Yes, my words were sarcastic. It was a direct criticism of the attitude that you were expressing not a "play" on mental illness. Something that you have dismissed as "softness" and another "excuse" for not finding another job.
I do not know why you think you are being "belittled" by someone with no power over you who you've never met. Especially as you are not in any way "soft". Imagine how it would be if I was your boss and I treated you like this every day, but you needed to keep your job?
Dominic Raab is the bully. Did you miss the title of the thread? Perhaps he's just "perceived" to be a bulky by the many people who have complained about his behaviour?"Oh I do apologise. This thread is about Raab only. As it happens I haven't at any point said the people who have complained about Raab perceived any bullying. I actually asked 'is it always bullying or are people just being soft' The operative word there is ALWAYS, that means I didn't say he hasn't bullied people or that even he may not have bullied people. Enough on from me now seeing as I not allowed to use anything you've said 'in the past' as that would be trying to win a point, something which you seem to level at a few people in these forums. What's that called? Pretty sure you accused me of it earlier. Oh yeah, GASLIGHTING. That's me done on this topic. | |||
"You have to be pragmatic, suck it up while you can and do your best to look for another job. Besides, in the case of civil servants in central government we'd like to think they would be have enough skills to market themselves to other employers in London. It's not like they aren't spoilt for choice. Some of the other posts on here, about suicides and shotguns. They indicate far more than simple yelling at employees was going on, criminal acts from the sounds of it. You are not other people. Yelling is not "simple" when associated with intimidation and chipping away at self-esteem. Makes it harder to find a job if you lack confidence, doesn't it? Lack of empathy and compassion. Part of a societal problem. I'll provide a complete lack of empathy here. Society, and we as people have gone 'soft'. Of course people can look for other work whilst in employment. All those saying its not that easy, yes it really is. It's easy when you're the bully. It's easy when you have choices. Savings. Support. Otherwise, not so much. Definitely no empathy, tough guy
Bully?
I'm far from being a tough guy but society is soft.
I agree that generally society has gone soft but then again maybe people in positions of power and authority should simply not bully and be respectful to their juniors? Just a thought!
Of course people should respect others and bullying isn't acceptable. But is it always bullying or are people just being soft? This is is all walks of life not just employment.
Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.
You are, actually, saying that the people being bullied should change their lives, not those causing the problem.
You also seem to be unable to accept that there are a huge range of reasons why that might not be an option for them that is nothing to do with them or society being "soft".
I'm not sure you have grasped what lack of empathy means.
I believe more and more people are finding it hard to be assertive and that leads to many issues one of them perceived bullying and being bullied.
Assertiveness is not being rude or aggressive, it is a life skill, it’s knowing where your line of acceptable is and being able to say no with confidence when crossed.
You still seem to be unable to grasp the idea that there are many and varied reasons for people being unable to "just get another job".
You seem unable to demonstrate empathy because everyone should be as "tough" as you and if not, they're "soft".
There is no bullying then? Just the "perception" of bullying.
That's gaslighting. Victims aren't really victims. They just think that they are because they're "soft". It's their fault.
Wow.
You read what you wanna read
I read what you write.
The implication here is that people are perceiving bullying where it does not exist because they are "soft".
Those being bullied should go and get another job whilst those doing the bullying should carry on as they are just "being assertive" and their behaviour is being misinterpreted.
There are no reasons why it may be difficult for people to just move jobs.
You haven't written anything to contradict that interpretation.
What empathy have you demonstrated except for the bully?
You rarely read what anyone writes, you interpret it in a way to suit your argument.
And you have the gall to call out someone else for gaslighting
Can you tell me with absolute certainty that some people are not soft and interpreted bullying wrongly?
Can you give me a valid reason why someone cannot possibly look for a new job?
And finally can you point me to where I've shown empathy for a bully?
"Some" people are "soft". People are different. I never said otherwise. That's no excuse for bullying. You manage who you have as appropriate. If they are "soft" you damn well coach them and adjust your behaviour as well as theirs. Of cout, that requires empathy. If there are a large number of staff are "soft" under one manager and not another, what does that tell you? Nothin, apparently. How have you empathised either with those who are "soft" or with those who are not "soft".
You cannot think of any reasons that people may find it difficult to "just" find a new job? You do understand that is the definition of lack of empathy, don't you? I, and several others, have done so. As such a good "reader" you have certainly taken that in, right? However, just for completeness, here are a few;
Loss of self-esteem and confidence as a direct result of being intimidated and bullied.
A good pension scheme paid into over many years unavailable somewhere else.
Working arrangements that allow you to meet other commitments to your family or others such as caring duties or charity and social activities that you consider valuable.
A very specialist skillset.
Taking pride in doing this particular job due to your experience and commitment to it and not being able to make the same difference elsewhere.
Wanting to fix the problem where you work because you think the consequences of walking away will be serious for the country.
You have explained how the actions of those alleged to be bullies may be misinterpreted. Being "assertive" and society and those feeling bullied being "soft". So, empathy for the bully not the victim.
Firstly I'll answer in accordance with my questions for you.
So you agree that some people are soft but believe others should 'pander' to them?
I have said nothing about people being 'assertive'. The fact remains that some people are soft and perceived bullying by some people isn't in fact bullying. I have also said that bullying (actual bullying) shouldn't be accepted.
As for your excuses for not looking for other employment, I don't believe any of those are more important than my own mental health. If you'd like a full breakdown, feel free to ask.
SOME people are "soft", not people in general.
Yes, you should treat people kindly and as individuals. You may define that as "pandering". You could just as easily define this as normal people no longer putting up with people treating them poorly, couldn't you?
You are quite correct. It was another poster that commenting on "assertiveness". I apologise for my mistake.
You did, however, think that bullying is a "perceived problem" and not real because people are actually just "soft".
What is "actual bullying" to you then? Should those people "just" get another job?
Would they also be making "excuses" for not finding another job? Your use of vocabulary to blame the victim is impressive. Why are they not good "reasons"?
Do breakdown the reasons why these are "excuses" and not "reasons".
Again you seem to be struggling with empathy. You may well be resilient and confident and see the world as you do for all manner of reasons both due to you and due to factors that you have no control over. You still seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that many, many others are not. That is a lack of empathy.
Society in general has become soft.
You can define 'pandering' as you wish, I know you will. You could say its normal people not putting with people treating them poorly. Just as I could say, people have got softer. It's a difference of opinion, not sure why your nose is so far out of joint.
Did I think that bullying is a perceived problem or did I say is it always bullying? Or could it be perceived that way?
Clearly to know whether its actual bullying it would need to be assessed on a case basis case basis.
So far you've told me I'm a bully, what I think, what I'm saying, as well trying to twist my words.
And you try to play on people's metal health with your sarcasm.
Who's the bully? Or am I just perceiving it to be that way?
You are dancing on a pin now.
Quite right is taken on a case by case basis. You perceive " softness". Bullying is an abuse of the relationship between the person in power and the person who is not.
You can see and explain the perspective of someone accused of being a bully, but not someone who feels victimised. You have demonstrated that at length and in depth. You can explain why something can be "perceived" as bullying when it isn't, but you cannot explain why someone can believe that they are being bullied or why they can find it easy, or why they they may not find it possible to "just find another job".
I didn't say that you are a bully. No words "twisted". You have confirmed that you mean what you have written.
I have not "played" on anyone's mental health either. What are you talking about?
Perhaps you do not express yourself as perfectly and clearly as you believe?
Most of that is waffle so i won't bother with it but ill address the mental health issue.
Your sarcastic words were 'Quite right. People shouldn't have nervous breakdowns. They should just jolly well pull their socks up and get on with it.'
Perhaps I express myself just fine but you like try to belittle rather than see the other perspective.
I'll ask again, who's the bully?
Ah, dismissing all of those difficult to address points as "waffle". Unarguable.
Oh, you want to go back to something written says ago to try to win a point?
Yes, my words were sarcastic. It was a direct criticism of the attitude that you were expressing not a "play" on mental illness. Something that you have dismissed as "softness" and another "excuse" for not finding another job.
I do not know why you think you are being "belittled" by someone with no power over you who you've never met. Especially as you are not in any way "soft". Imagine how it would be if I was your boss and I treated you like this every day, but you needed to keep your job?
Dominic Raab is the bully. Did you miss the title of the thread? Perhaps he's just "perceived" to be a bulky by the many people who have complained about his behaviour?
Oh I do apologise. This thread is about Raab only.
As it happens I haven't at any point said the people who have complained about Raab perceived any bullying.
I actually asked 'is it always bullying or are people just being soft'
The operative word there is ALWAYS, that means I didn't say he hasn't bullied people or that even he may not have bullied people.
Enough on from me now seeing as I not allowed to use anything you've said 'in the past' as that would be trying to win a point, something which you seem to level at a few people in these forums.
What's that called? Pretty sure you accused me of it earlier. Oh yeah, GASLIGHTING.
That's me done on this topic."Is that it? From sweeping generalisations about "society" being "soft" and it being "easy" to find another job if you are being bullied. Nobody said that it was "always" bullying so what is the point that you are making? I guess we'll never know. You can bring up whatever you want, but why something wasn't worth mentioning for days and is suddenly very pertinent is interesting. Especially when whatever point you are trying to make was highlighting your comments. You seem confused about what gaslighting is. That's OK though. I'm pleased that you are "done" and content with whatever you have written. I am no wiser on what you communicated. We know, from you, that it is difficult to identify bullies because society being soft means that it is perception rather than reality although it could also be bullying. | |||
