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Labour plan to ban new investment in North Sea gas and oil
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Labour plans to ban new investment in North Sea oil and gas fields in a major change from current Government policy, with Starmer making the pledge at Davos yesterday.
The pledge to ban oil & gas investment is conclusive proof of the economic non-viability of "renewable energy".
If there was any truth to any claim of renewables being cheaper or in any other way superior, a ban on investment would be redundant.
Restrictions -- and in some cases bans -- on oil and gas exploration and investment already exist throughout Europe. And that is why we are in an energy supply and price crisis.
It's not going to end until these parties and institutions collapse or are pushed out of office by replacements with a grasp of reality and of ordinary people's needs.
Starmer's promise to the Billionaires' club is like "solving" a famine by closing down farms.
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"That won't make Labour popular in Scotland.
Or indeed with poor people in the rest of the UK.
Labour are irelevent in scotland since they sided with the tories in 2014"
Of course they are important if you want rid of the Tories.
You SNP supporters seem to fail to grasp that. |
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"That won't make Labour popular in Scotland.
Or indeed with poor people in the rest of the UK.
Labour are irelevent in scotland since they sided with the tories in 2014
Of course they are important if you want rid of the Tories.
You SNP supporters seem to fail to grasp that."
Is that so over seas company's can invest and profit instead even if we are not burning oil we still need it for other uses.
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This sounds like a political soundbite whereas we really need a solid long term energy policy. The public aren't stupid, they realise there has to be a transition to clean energy. But we can't sit in the dark for two decades. |
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"That won't make Labour popular in Scotland.
Or indeed with poor people in the rest of the UK.
Labour are irelevent in scotland since they sided with the tories in 2014
Of course they are important if you want rid of the Tories.
You SNP supporters seem to fail to grasp that."
Labour were in power in scotland for many many yrs and it never got rid of the tories,they are irelevent now as most in scotland see them as tories |
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"That won't make Labour popular in Scotland.
Or indeed with poor people in the rest of the UK."
"Why not, do you think poor people are more susceptible to misinformation about renewal energy?"
Unusual logic, but no.
I think that no new investment in oil means that there will be less oil available in the future, and what is available will be more expensive. Poor people can't afford to buy a lovely new electric car, so they'll be using second-hand fossil fuelled ones for quite some time, and they'll have to pay more for that fuel.
No new fossil fuel investment also means no large tax revenues, so the government will have less money to spend on things, and poor people (as always) will be the ones that see their lives affected by the lack of public spending. |
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"Clean power by 2030 was the (bold) conference promise. You can't promise that if you allow the oil and gas companies to open new sites. It's not a new policy really, just the reality. "
It's a completely ridiculous, un thought out policy that will decimate business and the vast majority of the public. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Labour plans to ban new investment in North Sea oil and gas fields in a major change from current Government policy, with Starmer making the pledge at Davos yesterday.
The pledge to ban oil & gas investment is conclusive proof of the economic non-viability of "renewable energy".
If there was any truth to any claim of renewables being cheaper or in any other way superior, a ban on investment would be redundant.
Restrictions -- and in some cases bans -- on oil and gas exploration and investment already exist throughout Europe. And that is why we are in an energy supply and price crisis.
It's not going to end until these parties and institutions collapse or are pushed out of office by replacements with a grasp of reality and of ordinary people's needs.
Starmer's promise to the Billionaires' club is like "solving" a famine by closing down farms.
"
Yes, unsubsidised renewable energy is already cheaper than subsidised oil and gas. Both to install production and generate.
You can find the information reasonably easily.
Fossil fuel companies have lots of money to invest.
It is easier and cheaper for them to carry on doing what they're doing whilst society picks up the coast of the consequences.
They will delay making the transition as long as possible. That is rational from the short term business perspective which share holders are interested in and incentivise managers to look at.
It is not rational strategically.
This could have started ten years ago, but the transition was fought tooth and nail, so now it has to happen faster and will cost more.
Your famine simile is incorrect. It's like solving a famine by eating grain directly rather than feeding it to cows and eating the meat.
It's cheaper and goes further.
Oil will still be needed for plastics. If carbon capture and storage ever becomes real, then methane can be used to create hydrogen.
Claiming that it's to expensive now ignores the costs of fixing the consequences of climate change later. Why do you think that insurance companies proactively started the shift out of fossil fuels? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"That won't make Labour popular in Scotland.
Or indeed with poor people in the rest of the UK.
Why not, do you think poor people are more susceptible to misinformation about renewal energy?
Unusual logic, but no.
I think that no new investment in oil means that there will be less oil available in the future, and what is available will be more expensive. Poor people can't afford to buy a lovely new electric car, so they'll be using second-hand fossil fuelled ones for quite some time, and they'll have to pay more for that fuel.
No new fossil fuel investment also means no large tax revenues, so the government will have less money to spend on things, and poor people (as always) will be the ones that see their lives affected by the lack of public spending."
BS The price of fossil fuels is driven by OPEC turning the taps on and off not by UK production. Tax revenue is based on price not volume and renewable power generation is also taxed. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"But will we not still need oil for tarmack, lubricant, plastic and soap ETC
I would guess a wind turbine gearbox will need oil."
A wind turbine gearbox requires very little oil and it doesn't get burnt.
However, in general there are lots of other uses for oil. It doesn't stop being necessary, it just does getting burnt, very inefficiently, to create energy. |
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"But will we not still need oil for tarmack, lubricant, plastic and soap ETC
I would guess a wind turbine gearbox will need oil.
A wind turbine gearbox requires very little oil and it doesn't get burnt.
However, in general there are lots of other uses for oil. It doesn't stop being necessary, it just does getting burnt, very inefficiently, to create energy."
So how much oil is needed to run an EV vehicle including the renewing of under ground cables to homes to charge them and the charging stations. Or will it be back to backerlight. Without Plastic and PVC |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Labour plans to ban new investment in North Sea oil and gas fields in a major change from current Government policy, with Starmer making the pledge at Davos yesterday.
The pledge to ban oil & gas investment is conclusive proof of the economic non-viability of "renewable energy".
If there was any truth to any claim of renewables being cheaper or in any other way superior, a ban on investment would be redundant.
Restrictions -- and in some cases bans -- on oil and gas exploration and investment already exist throughout Europe. And that is why we are in an energy supply and price crisis.
It's not going to end until these parties and institutions collapse or are pushed out of office by replacements with a grasp of reality and of ordinary people's needs.
Starmer's promise to the Billionaires' club is like "solving" a famine by closing down farms.
"
Bingo. Correct.  |
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"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer."
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit."
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"But will we not still need oil for tarmack, lubricant, plastic and soap ETC
I would guess a wind turbine gearbox will need oil.
A wind turbine gearbox requires very little oil and it doesn't get burnt.
However, in general there are lots of other uses for oil. It doesn't stop being necessary, it just does getting burnt, very inefficiently, to create energy.
So how much oil is needed to run an EV vehicle including the renewing of under ground cables to homes to charge them and the charging stations. Or will it be back to backerlight. Without Plastic and PVC "
Again, not a lot of oil needed in an EV. Sealed, very simple, gearbox and motor.
Oddly enough, I don't know how much oil is needed to "renew underground cables" if that is a thing. However, I guess if you want your lights to work that would need to happen anyway.
Most new things require investment. If you don't want to do that you would just end up making the same old stuff forever with zero progress.
Perhaps that's better?
I did actually say that oil would still be used for many plastics so I don't know what point you are trying to make. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer."
So, you do realise that the fossil fuels were created by CO2 being taken out of the air over millions of years and fixed underground, cooling the planet to a liveable temperature.
What effect do you thing dumping it all back into the air over a century or so will have?
The rest of what you have written is, I'm afraid, scientifically rather illiterate, but if you can rustle up something other than YouTube or some random opinion, it might be worth investigating further.
Good rant though. Feel better? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
So, you do realise that the fossil fuels were created by CO2 being taken out of the air over millions of years and fixed underground, cooling the planet to a liveable temperature.
What effect do you thing dumping it all back into the air over a century or so will have?
The rest of what you have written is, I'm afraid, scientifically rather illiterate, but if you can rustle up something other than YouTube or some random opinion, it might be worth investigating further.
Good rant though. Feel better?"
Life was abundant back then.
Look again. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2. "
A world "starved of CO2"? What does that mean? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2.
A world "starved of CO2"? What does that mean?"
Well it means we are at about 400ppm. Now if it gets to 150 ppm green plants starve. That means no photosynthesis, no oxygen, no life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2.
A world "starved of CO2"? What does that mean?"
In the past it was 3000 to 9000 ppm and life was abundant.
CO2 is not a pollutant, it's a vital gas for life.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
So, you do realise that the fossil fuels were created by CO2 being taken out of the air over millions of years and fixed underground, cooling the planet to a liveable temperature.
What effect do you thing dumping it all back into the air over a century or so will have?
The rest of what you have written is, I'm afraid, scientifically rather illiterate, but if you can rustle up something other than YouTube or some random opinion, it might be worth investigating further.
Good rant though. Feel better?
Life was abundant back then.
Look again."
Life was abundant with single celled organisms which started to photosynthesis, which does what?
How long until it was cool enough for more complex life on the surface?
We haven't been around for a very long time. Only after the planet cooled an awful lot.
You need to, perhaps, look again. Perhaps a trip to the Natural History Museum?
The XKCD Earth temperature timeline is quite a nice one of recent history (22,000 years).
The New Scientist has a reasonable image of 500 million years of temperature modelling.
"Climate myths: It's been far warmer in the past, what's the big deal?"
A bit old, but most other images of this are in scientific journals. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2.
A world "starved of CO2"? What does that mean?
In the past it was 3000 to 9000 ppm and life was abundant.
CO2 is not a pollutant, it's a vital gas for life.
"
The planet was hotter and there was much more surface water.
Life was towards the poles and the equator was arid.
Humans did not exist. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Unsubsidised renewable energy? The whole sector has ridiculous levels of government subsidy! "
Fair overall. I meant energy price subsidies.
Relative to fossil fuels, investment subsidy is small for renewables, especially if you look over decades of investment in oil and gas. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2.
A world "starved of CO2"? What does that mean?
In the past it was 3000 to 9000 ppm and life was abundant.
CO2 is not a pollutant, it's a vital gas for life.
The planet was hotter and there was much more surface water.
Life was towards the poles and the equator was arid.
Humans did not exist."
But there was life, yes?
You see we adapt. We build,we find solutions. That's what we are good at. Hard work,invention,creation...the human spirit.
We overcome. We succeeded.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2.
A world "starved of CO2"? What does that mean?
In the past it was 3000 to 9000 ppm and life was abundant.
CO2 is not a pollutant, it's a vital gas for life.
The planet was hotter and there was much more surface water.
Life was towards the poles and the equator was arid.
Humans did not exist.
But there was life, yes?
You see we adapt. We build,we find solutions. That's what we are good at. Hard work,invention,creation...the human spirit.
We overcome. We succeeded.
"
There were plants an animals adapted to very different conditions over millions of years.
Millions.
We are not the only life on the planet and we survive in an interconnected ecosystem.
You are quite right.
"we adapt. We build,we find solutions. That's what we are good at. Hard work,invention,creation...the human spirit.
We overcome. We succeeded."
The best way to adapt and survive is to maintain the planet within a survivable temperature range.
The best way to do that is to stop burning fossil fuels and use all of the other available methods to generate energy that do not change global temperatures.
We have all of the tools to do exactly what you are suggesting, except you seem to not want to use them and continue to do what's causing the problem. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
The Netherlands are continuing their offshore exploration, but ending any more onshore drilling, in part due to earthquakes.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/netherlands-limits-onshore-gas-oil-drilling-2023-01-20/ |
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This is excellent. I opted to have my pension money invested in renewables because otherwise they'd put it all in strip mining and selling weapons. Now the option to invest in fossil fuel won't even be there. Time to show the nature burning capitalists that times are changing.
I liken it to e'commerce. When the internet started to become a thing there were two types of company - the ones that realised things were changing, adapting accordingly and the ones that no longer exist. |
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"He's been ordered to by Schwab et al.
Treacherous little surrender monkey.
We need more oil,gas and coal not less . CO2 createds life. The earth is 15 % green than in 2000.
Parts of Africa are becoming green again after millennia of desert.
Crop yield is up, coral reefs are expanding. CO2 means life.
This green bullshit is a power grab and money transfer.
Coral reefs are not expanding, don't talk bullshit.
Yes they are.
The earth is greener.
There are more trees in the northern hemisphere than 100 years ago and by a substantial amount.
You greens are cruel misanthropic s.o.bs.
You care more about polar bears than people.
China has 120 million in poverty. 20% of Russians have an outside toilet.
Do you really think you will stop them trying to get ahead?
We make less than 2% of man made CO2. Irrelevant. China makes 40%.
Even so, so what? We live in a world starved of CO2. It was far higher in the past. The problem is pollution in China and India, not CO2. "
Would not reducing the amount of CO2 we release help more Russians shit indoors?
This is my favourite anti-science argument of all time. Bravo.
Also, per capita, the UK releases just under the CO2 of China. This doesn't seem like a good reason to crack on with an energy policy that costs British consumers and only benefits oil companies. |
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"Why can't we do both and have any oil fields required and also push ahead with renewables as fast as possible. Oil will still be needed for non fuel products and renewables for power. "
This is what -insert insulting term for people who want to move to renewable energy- are campaigning for. |
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Can any one tell me how you would make steel with out coal.
And how you would power a blast furnace or fire bricks
Or will we stop using steel, glass, bricks, plastic. Gas is use to recycle lots of products.
And I would guess with out gas we will go back to bearing the dead in land we don't have.
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"Can any one tell me how you would make steel with out coal.
"
Hybrit in Sweden make steel without coal. I'm sure their website would have some information that would tell you how.
"
And how you would power a blast furnace "
Not sure.
"
or fire bricks
"
There are many ways to make bricks. I guess Google would tell you some.
"
Or will we stop using steel, glass, bricks,
"
No need to
"
plastic.
"
Yes, this is the idea, to reduce down and eventually stop using plastics.
"
Gas is use to recycle lots of products.
"
Okay
"
And I would guess with out gas we will go back to bearing the dead in land we don't have.
"
Not sure what this question is relating to. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Can any one tell me how you would make steel with out coal.
And how you would power a blast furnace or fire bricks
Or will we stop using steel, glass, bricks, plastic. Gas is use to recycle lots of products.
And I would guess with out gas we will go back to bearing the dead in land we don't have.
"
Hydrogen. The same for everything else you mentioned.
It's made from methane now so, as I said in a previous post, you could manufacture it from that of the mythical carbon capture and stepfather became real.
It can certainly be generated as a energy store when excess renewable energy is being generated.
Is be interested to know what the source of this particular "argument" came from. |
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"Can any one tell me how you would make steel with out coal."
Charcoal works just as well as a pure carbon source for adding to iron to make steel. Coal is handy, but not essential.
"And how you would power a blast furnace ..."
You can't fire a blast furnace without coal (or at least the coal derivative that can't be mentioned here). Blast furnaces would have to be shut down. But that's not a problem as blast furnaces need to be shut down every 15 years or so to be stripped out and re-lined. There's enough coal to keep them running until the end of their lives, and then just replace them with electrical furnaces.
"... or fire bricks"
Bricks can be fired quite easily with electrically heated kilns.
"And I would guess with out gas we will go back to bearing the dead in land we don't have."
There isn't a method of cremation that doesn't use fossil fuels yet, but we could easily liquefy, or 'compost' bodies rather than burying them. |
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"Why can't we do both and have any oil fields required and also push ahead with renewables as fast as possible. Oil will still be needed for non fuel products and renewables for power."
"This is what -insert insulting term for people who want to move to renewable energy- are campaigning for. "
That's not what I see.
I see -insulting term- arguing that we stop using all fossil fuels immediately. Indeed, one of the groups is called Just Stop Oil. If there are people campaigning to keep using fossil fuels while accelerating the move to 'renewables', then they aren't getting much press attention. |
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So yes I get we can stop burning fossil fule for transport. But the need for gas and coal is still hi.
There needs to be more investment In green but investment in the green sector is still high risk, as where gas and mining are on a nice clim at the moment. None government Investment is linked to profit and green is just not preforming on the market as yet. |
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"Can any one tell me how you would make steel with out coal.
Charcoal works just as well as a pure carbon source for adding to iron to make steel. Coal is handy, but not essential.
And how you would power a blast furnace ...
You can't fire a blast furnace without coal (or at least the coal derivative that can't be mentioned here). Blast furnaces would have to be shut down. But that's not a problem as blast furnaces need to be shut down every 15 years or so to be stripped out and re-lined. There's enough coal to keep them running until the end of their lives, and then just replace them with electrical furnaces.
... or fire bricks
Bricks can be fired quite easily with electrically heated kilns.
Have never seen an electrically heated brick kiln the one I have seen was gas and ran 24/7
Started at 30c going up to 1300c on a 2 week process was the size of a football pitch. Don't even know how meany KW that would be but it needs Fire to light the bricks so they Burn as in fire bricks.
And I would guess with out gas we will go back to bearing the dead in land we don't have.
There isn't a method of cremation that doesn't use fossil fuels yet, but we could easily liquefy, or 'compost' bodies rather than burying them. "
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"Can any one tell me how you would make steel with out coal.
Hybrit in Sweden make steel without coal. I'm sure their website would have some information that would tell you how.
And how you would power a blast furnace
Not sure.
or fire bricks
There are many ways to make bricks. I guess Google would tell you some.
Could not find another way can you add the link..
Or will we stop using steel, glass, bricks,
No need to
plastic.
So if not using PVC plastic what will cables be made of for all this electrical equipment.
Yes, this is the idea, to reduce down and eventually stop using plastics.
Gas is use to recycle lots of products.
Okay
And I would guess with out gas we will go back to bearing the dead in land we don't have.
Not sure what this question is relating to."
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"Investment is linked to profit and green is just not preforming on the market as yet."
Yes, this is why we need the government to help out.
Globally, in 2021 the fossil fuels industry received $531bn in subsidies. So it's no wonder it's profitable. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So yes I get we can stop burning fossil fule for transport. But the need for gas and coal is still hi.
There needs to be more investment In green but investment in the green sector is still high risk, as where gas and mining are on a nice clim at the moment. None government Investment is linked to profit and green is just not preforming on the market as yet."
Gas and coal demand is high as the alternatives are only just being rolled out at sufficient scale as a substitute but World energy demand continues to grow. Unfortunately a proportion of this is artificial, such as China's speculative property boom.
Green energy investment is highly profitable.
Where are you seeing otherwise? |
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"This is excellent. I opted to have my pension money invested in renewables because otherwise they'd put it all in strip mining and selling weapons. Now the option to invest in fossil fuel won't even be there. Time to show the nature burning capitalists that times are changing.
I liken it to e'commerce. When the internet started to become a thing there were two types of company - the ones that realised things were changing, adapting accordingly and the ones that no longer exist."
This is a particularly ignorant post. Amongst quite a few on here. If renewables were superior and/or cheaper there would be no need to ban investment in North Sea oil and gas or ban ice or gas boilers. They would become redundant. Unfortunately renewables by their very nature are intermittent and battery technology is nowhere near where it needs to be.
I have spoken to a few engineers who all agree that the current policies are utter madness and will lead to power cuts and much higher prices. Ed Milliband's 2008 climate change act and Teresa May's 2017 act have ensured sky high prices and also lost us our energy security. I notice the CEO of National Grid resigned this week as he probably knows what's coming. |
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"This is excellent. I opted to have my pension money invested in renewables because otherwise they'd put it all in strip mining and selling weapons. Now the option to invest in fossil fuel won't even be there. Time to show the nature burning capitalists that times are changing.
I liken it to e'commerce. When the internet started to become a thing there were two types of company - the ones that realised things were changing, adapting accordingly and the ones that no longer exist.
This is a particularly ignorant post. Amongst quite a few on here. If renewables were superior and/or cheaper there would be no need to ban investment in North Sea oil and gas or ban ice or gas boilers. They would become redundant. Unfortunately renewables by their very nature are intermittent and battery technology is nowhere near where it needs to be.
I have spoken to a few engineers who all agree that the current policies are utter madness and will lead to power cuts and much higher prices. Ed Milliband's 2008 climate change act and Teresa May's 2017 act have ensured sky high prices and also lost us our energy security. I notice the CEO of National Grid resigned this week as he probably knows what's coming. "
I spoke to a couple of engineers who said that with some investment, renewable energy will free us from the market set prices of oil and gas, make energy much more affordable in the medium and long term. Not to mention help to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. |
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"Yeah right . "
I don't think you have anything to worry about. The government doesn't give a shit about people or the environment, so they will fight tooth and nail on behalf of the fossil fuel companies who donate large sums of money to their party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is excellent. I opted to have my pension money invested in renewables because otherwise they'd put it all in strip mining and selling weapons. Now the option to invest in fossil fuel won't even be there. Time to show the nature burning capitalists that times are changing.
I liken it to e'commerce. When the internet started to become a thing there were two types of company - the ones that realised things were changing, adapting accordingly and the ones that no longer exist.
This is a particularly ignorant post. Amongst quite a few on here. If renewables were superior and/or cheaper there would be no need to ban investment in North Sea oil and gas or ban ice or gas boilers. They would become redundant. Unfortunately renewables by their very nature are intermittent and battery technology is nowhere near where it needs to be.
I have spoken to a few engineers who all agree that the current policies are utter madness and will lead to power cuts and much higher prices. Ed Milliband's 2008 climate change act and Teresa May's 2017 act have ensured sky high prices and also lost us our energy security. I notice the CEO of National Grid resigned this week as he probably knows what's coming. "
A few engineers?  |
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"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030! "
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment. |
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"That is one of many problems that we haven't got round to solving. "
Personly it will be the biggest stumbling block. That and the fact if UKPN do up grade the supply to your home you will need a satisfactory EICR on you electrical installation for them to re connect the supply meaning most property's will need a new fuse box. Metel with new A type RCD and SPD..at the cost to home owner or landlord. |
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"That is one of many problems that we haven't got round to solving. "
However you appear to be advocating not bothering to attempt to solve any problems, and sink us deeper into our reliance on fossil fuels. |
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"That is one of many problems that we haven't got round to solving.
However you appear to be advocating not bothering to attempt to solve any problems, and sink us deeper into our reliance on fossil fuels. "
No I would love to go electric but don't see my property and business running on the inferstructure that is there we get at least one power cut a month as the cable in the lane is so old it fails and has to be repaired again that's with out heat pump and EV on it |
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The drastic fallout from Jeremy Hunt's windfall taxes is now starting to bite.
Harbour Energy, the UK's biggest oil and gas operator, won't bother bidding to explore for new oil in the North Sea and is cutting back its workforce in Britain.
Hunt's hike of the Energy Profits Levy (introduced by Chancellor Sunak) brought the effective tax rate on oil and gas operators to 75%, as they also pay a special 40% corporation tax rate.
France's TotalEnergies said it will cut North Sea investments by a quarter this year.
Hunt also introduced a windfall tax on low-carbon electricity generators, with a 45% sales tax.
Community Windpower, which operates eight wind farms has said the tax is "a moratorium on new investment in this sector" and is pursuing legal action against the government.
Increasing tax on an industry that is experiencing difficulty with new projects because of supply chain disruption, high interest rates, and cost inflation is a move whose results are clear:
Lower investment, job cuts, capital reallocation away from the UK where possible.
Why would you invest in the UK if you know that a good year will mean confiscation of profits?
Why would you invest in new discovery? Why would you put money and time into a green energy transition, especially if that is being taxed as well?
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"This is excellent. I opted to have my pension money invested in renewables because otherwise they'd put it all in strip mining and selling weapons. Now the option to invest in fossil fuel won't even be there. Time to show the nature burning capitalists that times are changing.
I liken it to e'commerce. When the internet started to become a thing there were two types of company - the ones that realised things were changing, adapting accordingly and the ones that no longer exist.
This is a particularly ignorant post. Amongst quite a few on here. If renewables were superior and/or cheaper there would be no need to ban investment in North Sea oil and gas or ban ice or gas boilers. They would become redundant. Unfortunately renewables by their very nature are intermittent and battery technology is nowhere near where it needs to be.
I have spoken to a few engineers who all agree that the current policies are utter madness and will lead to power cuts and much higher prices. Ed Milliband's 2008 climate change act and Teresa May's 2017 act have ensured sky high prices and also lost us our energy security. I notice the CEO of National Grid resigned this week as he probably knows what's coming. "
If not polluting the environment and poisoning is so superior why would the Government need to ban pumping untreated waste into the rivers and atmosphere?
Idiots.
There has been a huge shift in investment towards renewables, driven in large part by insurance companies. Something to do with climate change causing very expensive catastrophic events and subsequently huge payouts, or something.
The huge cost of climate change and the fact that doing something about it has been delayed for so long is the reason that renewables investment needs to be accelerated.
Are batteries the only method of storing energy? There aren't dozens of other methods of doing so that are coming on stream in full scale testing now? You need to check with your "engineer" friends, perhaps.
Have the current hundreds of percent of price rises been due to renewables?
Are the changes in gas and oil prices anything to do with Russia and Saudi Arabia controlling supplies or do we trust them with our energy security more than a source on our own territory not affected by global prices?
Is the installation and generation price per unit of renewable energy higher or lower than that of fossil fuels? Have you checked?
The Head of National Grid probably resigned to do a well paid job somewhere else.
I don't really know why you want to rely on other countries for our energy, value pollution and don't believe in climate change being a problem. However, you only seem to be reading all the publications that reinforce your opinions, so why are you paying here? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment."
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The drastic fallout from Jeremy Hunt's windfall taxes is now starting to bite.
Harbour Energy, the UK's biggest oil and gas operator, won't bother bidding to explore for new oil in the North Sea and is cutting back its workforce in Britain.
Hunt's hike of the Energy Profits Levy (introduced by Chancellor Sunak) brought the effective tax rate on oil and gas operators to 75%, as they also pay a special 40% corporation tax rate.
France's TotalEnergies said it will cut North Sea investments by a quarter this year.
Hunt also introduced a windfall tax on low-carbon electricity generators, with a 45% sales tax.
Community Windpower, which operates eight wind farms has said the tax is "a moratorium on new investment in this sector" and is pursuing legal action against the government.
Increasing tax on an industry that is experiencing difficulty with new projects because of supply chain disruption, high interest rates, and cost inflation is a move whose results are clear:
Lower investment, job cuts, capital reallocation away from the UK where possible.
Why would you invest in the UK if you know that a good year will mean confiscation of profits?
Why would you invest in new discovery? Why would you put money and time into a green energy transition, especially if that is being taxed as well?
"
Do companies moan when they're taxed or do they rejoice and ask for more?
So do we borrow money to pay for the extreme energy price rises due to fossil fuels controlled by foreign powers instead, or does the population just pay full market rates? |
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"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?"
|
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"The drastic fallout from Jeremy Hunt's windfall taxes is now starting to bite.
Harbour Energy, the UK's biggest oil and gas operator, won't bother bidding to explore for new oil in the North Sea and is cutting back its workforce in Britain.
Hunt's hike of the Energy Profits Levy (introduced by Chancellor Sunak) brought the effective tax rate on oil and gas operators to 75%, as they also pay a special 40% corporation tax rate.
France's TotalEnergies said it will cut North Sea investments by a quarter this year.
Hunt also introduced a windfall tax on low-carbon electricity generators, with a 45% sales tax.
Community Windpower, which operates eight wind farms has said the tax is "a moratorium on new investment in this sector" and is pursuing legal action against the government.
Increasing tax on an industry that is experiencing difficulty with new projects because of supply chain disruption, high interest rates, and cost inflation is a move whose results are clear:
Lower investment, job cuts, capital reallocation away from the UK where possible.
Why would you invest in the UK if you know that a good year will mean confiscation of profits?
Why would you invest in new discovery? Why would you put money and time into a green energy transition, especially if that is being taxed as well?
Do companies moan when they're taxed or do they rejoice and ask for more?
So do we borrow money to pay for the extreme energy price rises due to fossil fuels controlled by foreign powers instead, or does the population just pay full market rates?"
Pay the market prise same as food and fule.. |
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We have to stop our dependency on oil, so a date should be made ASAP. We're at a potential tipping point where we can massively extend our renewables and infrastructure needing to support them, including storage.
We have kicked the can too far down the road already,fuelled by oil interests bankrolling political parties around the globe.
There are of course impacts from changes but those coming from continuing with oil are far more catastrophic. |
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"We have to stop our dependency on oil, so a date should be made ASAP. We're at a potential tipping point where we can massively extend our renewables and infrastructure needing to support them, including storage.
How would you propose that in the next 30 years. Hastings where I am is still on cables under ground that are over 70years old. Probably the best way is to reduce the population creating less demand but that will not happen in my life time.
We have kicked the can too far down the road already,fuelled by oil interests bankrolling political parties around the globe.
There are of course impacts from changes but those coming from continuing with oil are far more catastrophic. "
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Funny that in the US gas prices are a fifth the price of ours. "
No. It's how the market functions. The US doesn't import natural gas. It's an isolated market. It sells its excess at the global market price.
The UK imports 50% of its natural gas. Of we pulled out all the stops, we could raise that by about 4%. We are hooked up to the European gas grid and we pay market rate. We don't use UK produced gas at a low margin. It's sold at the market price.
You have such a strong opinion on these matters, so I'm surprised that you haven't investigated further.
Where do you receive your information from? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?"
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary? |
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"Are batteries the only method of storing energy? There aren't dozens of other methods of doing so that are coming on stream in full scale testing now?"
Can you name a non-battery energy storage facility that is currently being built? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Are batteries the only method of storing energy? There aren't dozens of other methods of doing so that are coming on stream in full scale testing now?
Can you name a non-battery energy storage facility that is currently being built?"
Energydome CO2 battery
Gravity Power piston water pump
Energy Vault energy storage tower
Gravitricity gravity energy storage
ARES rail energy storage
Were you really unable to find this information yourself? Why did you need me to do this? |
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"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?"
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that "
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans? |
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"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?"
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead."
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do..."
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
|
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or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
"
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing."
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
"
How's it going to get there without any government policy to support it? The longer we leave it, the more we, and our infrastructure gets left behind
"
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
"
This seems to contradict your point, we shouldn't wait and be reliant on foreign supplies to "look green".
"
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this.. "
No idea what this is about, or why it should be used as an excuse to deepen our reliance on fossil fuels, the absolute opposite of what we should be doing. |
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or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this.. "
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think. |
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"That won't make Labour popular in Scotland.
Or indeed with poor people in the rest of the UK.
Labour are irelevent in scotland since they sided with the tories in 2014"
This SNP govt has run its course with enough sexual and financial scandals to fill a book. Added to the constant mess they make of everything they touch it is sad that so many Scots are fooled by the constant whinging and lack of responsibility on show |
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"
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
How's it going to get there without any government policy to support it? The longer we leave it, the more we, and our infrastructure gets left behind
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
This seems to contradict your point, we shouldn't wait and be reliant on foreign supplies to "look green".
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
No idea what this is about, or why it should be used as an excuse to deepen our reliance on fossil fuels, the absolute opposite of what we should be doing."
On the last point UKPN alow 10amp or there abots per home but Heat pumps generally need 10amp each so the cable supply your house probable on a new construction is a 300mm 4 core aluminium and if ever home pulls 20amp the ACB at the sub station supplying that cable will trip.
If on an an old installation it will be a 185mm and there is more chance it will just melt and you will be left with out power until its fixed.
Gas to homes is about 40kw electricity is 22kw. Now cut out the 40kw to each house in your road and add 20kw on the that cable and it just will not take it. Its OK to ban gas Boilers in 2050 but as a cold nation we will need more electricity.
That said if you had 20kw of solar you might be OK. But the max on a domestic properties is 4kw taking up 25m2 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think."
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years |
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"
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
How's it going to get there without any government policy to support it? The longer we leave it, the more we, and our infrastructure gets left behind
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
This seems to contradict your point, we shouldn't wait and be reliant on foreign supplies to "look green".
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
No idea what this is about, or why it should be used as an excuse to deepen our reliance on fossil fuels, the absolute opposite of what we should be doing.
On the last point UKPN alow 10amp or there abots per home but Heat pumps generally need 10amp each so the cable supply your house probable on a new construction is a 300mm 4 core aluminium and if ever home pulls 20amp the ACB at the sub station supplying that cable will trip.
If on an an old installation it will be a 185mm and there is more chance it will just melt and you will be left with out power until its fixed.
Gas to homes is about 40kw electricity is 22kw. Now cut out the 40kw to each house in your road and add 20kw on the that cable and it just will not take it. Its OK to ban gas Boilers in 2050 but as a cold nation we will need more electricity.
That said if you had 20kw of solar you might be OK. But the max on a domestic properties is 4kw taking up 25m2"
All this sounds very solvable. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think.
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years "
You're right, the key is a broad approach. Reducing energy use through efficiencies, more renewable sources, better transport, home insulation, reduction in CO2 emissions from agriculture, industry, etc etc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think.
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years "
So, once again, this is what Governments are for. To think beyond this year and to stop you from being selfish.
Not that recent governments have been capable of that.
A massive increase in renewables spending in the economy will still be a good thing, won't it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think.
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years
You're right, the key is a broad approach. Reducing energy use through efficiencies, more renewable sources, better transport, home insulation, reduction in CO2 emissions from agriculture, industry, etc etc. "
But we are not going to reduce a home's usage we just going to move it from Gas to Electric.
I work on social housing most of witch in my opinion needs to be flattered and re built as its cold and damp.
So let's look at a block of 16 flats each has a 60amp supply fine But the block has 300amp over the 3 phase most are home 24/7 so if a heat pump needs 10amp 160amp that's more than 50% extra in that road there are 300 properties and that's 1 Road? And not looking at EV vehicles.
I look after 6 blocks built in 1973 to last 20 years they won't have to knock them down as at some point they will fall down failed all 48 properties electricly this month for the landlord to say they can't afford the improvements. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think.
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years
So, once again, this is what Governments are for. To think beyond this year and to stop you from being selfish.
Not that recent governments have been capable of that.
A massive increase in renewables spending in the economy will still be a good thing, won't it?"
So would you like to see UKPN back in public ownership even if tax had to go up 10% to be able to get close to Zero Carbon by 2050. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Are batteries the only method of storing energy? There aren't dozens of other methods of doing so that are coming on stream in full scale testing now?"
"Can you name a non-battery energy storage facility that is currently being built?"
"Energydome CO2 battery
Gravity Power piston water pump
Energy Vault energy storage tower
Gravitricity gravity energy storage
ARES rail energy storage
Were you really unable to find this information yourself? Why did you need me to do this?"
I didn't ask for a list of companies that say they can provide energy storage, I asked for the name of any facility actually being built.
In your rhetorical question above you implied that there are grid-scale energy storage systems "coming on stream in full scale testing now". Can you point at an actual facility getting built right now? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think.
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years
So, once again, this is what Governments are for. To think beyond this year and to stop you from being selfish.
Not that recent governments have been capable of that.
A massive increase in renewables spending in the economy will still be a good thing, won't it?
So would you like to see UKPN back in public ownership even if tax had to go up 10% to be able to get close to Zero Carbon by 2050."
Like to? No. Who would "like" that?
If that's actually what's necessary, then yes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How removed from reality are you? The government put into law net zero from 2050 and banned ice car and gas boiler sales in 2030!
So if ICE will go and gas Boilers are phased out much more electricity will be needed to domestic properties. But I don't see new cables being installed in roads or the up grade of national grid infrastructure to take that load.
I have a 45KW gas boiler and 3 cars how will homes power this with the infrastructure that is there at the moment.
No. You don't need massive upgrades to domestic infrastructure.
So a block of 96 flats each would need at least a 6kw air source heat pump with minimal diversity so would need a 1500amp supply at the moment it has 800amp and that is without cooking lighting ETC so how can you say no up grade is not needed.
When every home is on a heat pump and charging EV the cable in the street will not take the load.
So with out up dating all ready failing under ground cables how are we going to get more power through them to run even more electrical items in the home.
I'm still waiting for UKPN to come out to give me a quote to up grade the supply but I know its going to be thousands But it's also going to be on a first come first served basis.
So take a block of 96 flats all have 13KW supply all need
Some will be necessary for high speed charging, which is being rolled out to the strategic road network and from new generation sites to the grid.
However, money does seem necessary to develop new technologies.
How much is spent of prospecting and drilling for new oil sources annually to carry on doing the same old thing and exacerbating the damage?
Is £54bn a reasonable start?
Do you believe that the National Grid is unaware of the work necessary?
I think National grid will be fine as is but after them you have UKPN at the moment it's 8weeks to get a quote and once you except that quote then it's 6 weeks to 3 months to start work and the time frame is going up.
It will be the 400v system that will struggle the grid can move power around but there is only one cable down most roads that would not cope. And it will take 10s of years to change that
So, National Grid knows what it's doing but UK Power Networks do not?
What do you not like about their published upgrade plans?
All the up grade are at businesses an new development. There is no plan to change or up grade supply's to existing domestic properties some are in a very pore condition. And will soon be worse when we are all faced with going over to heat pumps. The diversity calculation they have used for the last 80 years will be out of date. So the net work will not take the load.
I have also worked on privet networks and they are even worse.
If in fact they do ban gas Boilers it will be a huge problem on privet network.
When did you last try and get an upgrade from UKPN it's like pulling Teath. One site had to scrap a Rational oven's as UKPN could not give them the supply up grade they needed. Just a joke so they now have 2 gas powerd in stead.
Strange disconnect. UKPN is a private company, so probably not that strange.
They aren't going to spend money in anticipation of avoiding problems because that's how the private sector is incentives.
Which returns us to why fossil fuel companies have to be compelled to change what they do...
True but surly the government will have to step in if. Thay are going to ban the sale of gas Boilers. And ICE vehicles.
National Grid network at 275 or 400 KV is quit robust.
Even the UPNW 132KV network is quit robust.
But when you look at the 33Kv and the 11Kv network the problems start.
Then when you look at the LV network lots of it is old 60years + and is falling apart all ready.
And up grads are charged back to the consumer.
A commercial client 2021 had to pay £36,000 to get an up grade from 70Kw to 140Kw
There is a plan for upgrading domestic supplies. It may be rubbish. I'm not planning to read it. Have you?
They sound like a not very responsive private company for discretionary work, but they are a monopoly.
The Government may have to step in.
That's what Government is for.
None of this means that not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation is a bad idea. It will just cost more to resolve if left later. However, that ultimately is UK domestic investment so you could argue that is no bad thing.
See I think the later you leave it the cheaper it will be as technology might have got to where it needs to be.
not encouraging further fossil fuel exploration and exploitation will just leave the UK more reliant on foreign supplies to look green.
If in deed we are going to replace cables in roads and the roads them self it will all need to be produced from oil and gas as part of manufacturing. So why be reliant on foreign imports to do this..
The later we leave transition, the faster we have to make the switch to avoid a potentially permanent tipping point in global temperatures.
That is the main purpose of the exercise.
More investment and more urgency yen or twenty years ago when we were at peak denial would mean we could have made the change over a longer period.
We won't be more reliant if we switch to renewables. We won't need as much fossil fuel, will we?
The fossil raw materials no longer being burned will be used for other areas instead.
The problem remains that as long as fossil fuel companies are incentives to explore and extract they will attempt to drag their heels on transitioning to renewables because it's more profitable for them to do what they always do.
You know this, I think.
I go but you forget greed most my self are greedy we want more for less and are not worried about a planet we will leave behind.
I like to travel and do about 50,000 km a year in plans far out doing me planting 300 trees this year.
We are a rich nation and a disposable economy, slowing that would do more for the planet then baning gas Boilers, I guess in homes I don't see heating hospitals and large building going away from gas in the next 50years
So, once again, this is what Governments are for. To think beyond this year and to stop you from being selfish.
Not that recent governments have been capable of that.
A massive increase in renewables spending in the economy will still be a good thing, won't it?
So would you like to see UKPN back in public ownership even if tax had to go up 10% to be able to get close to Zero Carbon by 2050.
Like to? No. Who would "like" that?
If that's actually what's necessary, then yes."
Then yes. It will have to be payed for some how.
Pesonly I'm 55 so I don't real care I try but by 2050 I'll be 82 if I'm on this planet. |
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"Are batteries the only method of storing energy? There aren't dozens of other methods of doing so that are coming on stream in full scale testing now?
Can you name a non-battery energy storage facility that is currently being built?
Energydome CO2 battery
Gravity Power piston water pump
Energy Vault energy storage tower
Gravitricity gravity energy storage
ARES rail energy storage
Were you really unable to find this information yourself? Why did you need me to do this?
I didn't ask for a list of companies that say they can provide energy storage, I asked for the name of any facility actually being built.
In your rhetorical question above you implied that there are grid-scale energy storage systems "coming on stream in full scale testing now". Can you point at an actual facility getting built right now?"
Let's say we can store a years worth of electricity if you can't get it to homes and business its pointless.
It's all OK in theory but as a country we can't even fix pot holes at the rate they appear let alone improve vital infostructure.
Sorry for of topic but waste water is a good example.
It's cheaper to pay the fine for dumping it in the sea than a fertility to treat it to an ever higher standard.
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You're right, the key is a broad approach. Reducing energy use through efficiencies, more renewable sources, better transport, home insulation, reduction in CO2 emissions from agriculture, industry, etc etc.
But we are not going to reduce a home's usage we just going to move it from Gas to Electric.
"
Plenty of people are insulating their homes, getting more efficient devices
"
I work on social housing most of witch in my opinion needs to be flattered and re built as its cold and damp.
"
Can't they be rebuilt as more energy efficient dwellings? This seems pretty straightforward.
"
So let's look at a block of 16 flats each has a 60amp supply fine But the block has 300amp over the 3 phase most are home 24/7 so if a heat pump needs 10amp 160amp that's more than 50% extra in that road there are 300 properties and that's 1 Road? And not looking at EV vehicles.
I look after 6 blocks built in 1973 to last 20 years they won't have to knock them down as at some point they will fall down failed all 48 properties electricly this month for the landlord to say they can't afford the improvements. "
Correct some work and investment is needed. I think we're on the same side. |
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"
You're right, the key is a broad approach. Reducing energy use through efficiencies, more renewable sources, better transport, home insulation, reduction in CO2 emissions from agriculture, industry, etc etc.
But we are not going to reduce a home's usage we just going to move it from Gas to Electric.
Plenty of people are insulating their homes, getting more efficient devices
I work on social housing most of witch in my opinion needs to be flattered and re built as its cold and damp.
Can't they be rebuilt as more energy efficient dwellings? This seems pretty straightforward.
There just is not the will or the budget from the landlord they manage about 20,000 properties OMG I would not put my dog in some.
So let's look at a block of 16 flats each has a 60amp supply fine But the block has 300amp over the 3 phase most are home 24/7 so if a heat pump needs 10amp 160amp that's more than 50% extra in that road there are 300 properties and that's 1 Road? And not looking at EV vehicles.
I look after 6 blocks built in 1973 to last 20 years they won't have to knock them down as at some point they will fall down failed all 48 properties electricly this month for the landlord to say they can't afford the improvements.
Correct some work and investment is needed. I think we're on the same side."
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"
You're right, the key is a broad approach. Reducing energy use through efficiencies, more renewable sources, better transport, home insulation, reduction in CO2 emissions from agriculture, industry, etc etc.
But we are not going to reduce a home's usage we just going to move it from Gas to Electric.
Plenty of people are insulating their homes, getting more efficient devices
I'm looking at EcoQuilt Expert – The SuperQuilt Alternative but am looking at 400m2 at £5/m will I ever get that cost back?
I work on social housing most of witch in my opinion needs to be flattered and re built as its cold and damp.
Can't they be rebuilt as more energy efficient dwellings? This seems pretty straightforward.
So let's look at a block of 16 flats each has a 60amp supply fine But the block has 300amp over the 3 phase most are home 24/7 so if a heat pump needs 10amp 160amp that's more than 50% extra in that road there are 300 properties and that's 1 Road? And not looking at EV vehicles.
I look after 6 blocks built in 1973 to last 20 years they won't have to knock them down as at some point they will fall down failed all 48 properties electricly this month for the landlord to say they can't afford the improvements.
Correct some work and investment is needed. I think we're on the same side."
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