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Brexit have shrunk the economy with 5.5%.
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
I read an article about it, here it is:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-21/brexit-has-left-the-uk-economy-5-5-smaller-researcher-says
It seems that brexit has left the uk economy 5.5% smaller than it would have been and added to the squeeze on public services thats behind strikes crippling the railways and national health service, a prominent research group concluded.
What is your view of it, is it a worrying trend and could it shrink even more or could it return to how it was?  |
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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO... |
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO..."
Yes, the only thing is to learn from history and you are right there too, it cant be how it was. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its important to understand the whys.
Is it exporting? And is that red,white and blue tape related.
Is it fewer workers?
Or is it just brexit enabled this shambles of a government to have power?
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Permanent Brexit hit to UK economy + corrupt/fraudulent transfer of state assets (money) to cronies under cover of Covid = Sunak’s £50bn black hole being filled by austerity and tax rises. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO..."
You fix a problem by accepting that it exists and understanding what is causing it.
Denying that anything has gone wrong just means that it continues.
Are you denying that anything needs to be fixed? Going in as we are is fine? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Essentially, there are no studies or measures of economic or social outcomes that indicate any benefit from Brexit. Only the opposite.
Consequently, rather than hoping for the best or pretending that there are no problems we have to actively seek them out and fix them. We will not rejoin the EU bit there are many other things to resolve in the meantime.
Sadly, I think that we will go through two election cycles before that happens.
Another lost decade. |
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"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO..."
However if the country can admit that Brexit was a con and is as shit as it was predicted to be. Maybe they could do something about it instead of pretending it was a good idea. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO...
However if the country can admit that Brexit was a con and is as shit as it was predicted to be. Maybe they could do something about it instead of pretending it was a good idea."
Con or not, doesn't matter anymore.
I don't care if people still believe that it is a brilliant idea that has been badly executed. Nobody has to "admit" anything. Just look at the objective really right now.
I just want it fixed and that just needs accepting that something needs fixing and doing something about it. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO...
However if the country can admit that Brexit was a con and is as shit as it was predicted to be. Maybe they could do something about it instead of pretending it was a good idea."
What do you mean by the country admitting it? I can't see many politicians admitting to anything and several won't be in government much longer so they will be yesterday's men. Looks like Labour have a similar stance so not sure who you are asking to admit to anything or how. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Even The Times a once pro Brexit rag has finally started dismantling the Brexit golden future rubbish.
Here they slate the lack of any real chances of economic progress and the joke of the claim to be Global Britain. We have been conned as a population.
https://apple.news/AVBJ2HE2HSKGcCEYUABYWZw
It’s also reported some head offices of Japanese automotive businesses are quietly moving into the EU as the new protectionist approach of the USA is likely to have a very negative effect on the UK’s ability to both produce and sell cars. They did not publish who these companies are.
Winning all the way with Boris.
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"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO...
However if the country can admit that Brexit was a con and is as shit as it was predicted to be. Maybe they could do something about it instead of pretending it was a good idea.
What do you mean by the country admitting it? I can't see many politicians admitting to anything and several won't be in government much longer so they will be yesterday's men. Looks like Labour have a similar stance so not sure who you are asking to admit to anything or how."
Maybe admit is the wrong word. But they all feel like they have to pretend brexit was a good idea. Until the government, or Labour, or whomever faces up to the reality of brexit, how are we supposed to start mitigating against all the problems it's causing.
We're just trundling along in this weird situation where the main political parties are afraid they will lose votes if they say anything like "yes brexit was a disaster, as predicted, in order to reduce the damage it's doing, we need to do X,Y,Z". |
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It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
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The crap is really going to hit the fan in the EU shortly due to the one size fits all interest rate policy now that rates are going up.
The EU want a tougher fiscal policy after years of record low interest rates and quantitative easing. Greece and Italy are really going to struggle due to there huge deficits |
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"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
"
Absolutely savaging Brexiteers. Frankie Boyle-esque. |
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"The crap is really going to hit the fan in the EU shortly due to the one size fits all interest rate policy now that rates are going up.
The EU want a tougher fiscal policy after years of record low interest rates and quantitative easing. Greece and Italy are really going to struggle due to there huge deficits "
Lol
Yes the Sun has been predicting doom for the Euro since 1999. Seems to be going just fine.
Still, hang on in there! |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO...
However if the country can admit that Brexit was a con and is as shit as it was predicted to be. Maybe they could do something about it instead of pretending it was a good idea.
What do you mean by the country admitting it? I can't see many politicians admitting to anything and several won't be in government much longer so they will be yesterday's men. Looks like Labour have a similar stance so not sure who you are asking to admit to anything or how.
Maybe admit is the wrong word. But they all feel like they have to pretend brexit was a good idea. Until the government, or Labour, or whomever faces up to the reality of brexit, how are we supposed to start mitigating against all the problems it's causing.
We're just trundling along in this weird situation where the main political parties are afraid they will lose votes if they say anything like "yes brexit was a disaster, as predicted, in order to reduce the damage it's doing, we need to do X,Y,Z". "
So you mean politicians need to admit (probably the correct word) about brexit. How would this happen. Standing up in the commons and making a statement is a possibility I guess. I think there are many MP's who were not in favour of it. |
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"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO...
However if the country can admit that Brexit was a con and is as shit as it was predicted to be. Maybe they could do something about it instead of pretending it was a good idea.
What do you mean by the country admitting it? I can't see many politicians admitting to anything and several won't be in government much longer so they will be yesterday's men. Looks like Labour have a similar stance so not sure who you are asking to admit to anything or how.
Maybe admit is the wrong word. But they all feel like they have to pretend brexit was a good idea. Until the government, or Labour, or whomever faces up to the reality of brexit, how are we supposed to start mitigating against all the problems it's causing.
We're just trundling along in this weird situation where the main political parties are afraid they will lose votes if they say anything like "yes brexit was a disaster, as predicted, in order to reduce the damage it's doing, we need to do X,Y,Z".
So you mean politicians need to admit (probably the correct word) about brexit. How would this happen. Standing up in the commons and making a statement is a possibility I guess. I think there are many MP's who were not in favour of it. "
That, or just not pretending it was a good idea. And talking about how to try to deal with the problems it's created. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
And yet more winning...The government's next fleet of armoured ministerial cars will be German built Audi A8s because supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
And even more winning (takes the New York Time to tell the truth)...Restaurants across London are so short-staffed that they have had to cut operating hours. While the city’s once-thriving dining scene has also been hurt by the pandemic and by soaring energy prices, the labor shortage is almost wholly a result of Brexit. https://nytimes.com |
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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements"
Incorrect, problems throughout the automotive industry are due to microchip shortages (why don't we make 'em ourselves and have to reply on imports? It's by far the process most damaging to the environment and no "Western" manufacturer would be able to get away with it) and the surprising amount of automotive equipment coming from the Ukraine: BMW wiring looms, for example.
Nothing at all to do with BREXIT, whoever would have believed I'm defending it! Well, not blaming it at least... |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
""supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements"
Incorrect, problems throughout the automotive industry are due to microchip shortages (why don't we make 'em ourselves and have to reply on imports? It's by far the process most damaging to the environment and no "Western" manufacturer would be able to get away with it) and the surprising amount of automotive equipment coming from the Ukraine: BMW wiring looms, for example.
Nothing at all to do with BREXIT, whoever would have believed I'm defending it! Well, not blaming it at least..."
I think it is possible for both things to be correct...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-ministerial-government-cars-made-in-germany-audi-b2250544.html |
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"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
"
What are the long term gains you are still expecting to materialise? Will it be growth in export markets for golden hens teeth, flying pig wings, unicorn rainbow horns and sparkling rocking horse shit? Still, we have at least “taken back control”  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What argument I hear is it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
But it depends on the level of better.
Better than before the referendum? That’s the benchmark folks.
We know it will never be as good as that. If anyone tells you other wise, they are either a liar or an idiot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Perhaps the problem isn't Brexit? Perhaps it's the service economy that we have needs to adapt with some more technical and manufacturing sectors? We have stopped making things like we used to since the 1990's, that needs to change. |
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""supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements"
Incorrect, problems throughout the automotive industry are due to microchip shortages (why don't we make 'em ourselves and have to reply on imports? It's by far the process most damaging to the environment and no "Western" manufacturer would be able to get away with it) and the surprising amount of automotive equipment coming from the Ukraine: BMW wiring looms, for example.
Nothing at all to do with BREXIT, whoever would have believed I'm defending it! Well, not blaming it at least..."
We don't make modern microchips ourselves because building a modern chip fabrication plant costs well over £100 billion. It's a country-sized investment, that can only pay back when there are global-sized sales. An EU invested fab might be possible. But not for chicken shit third tier countries like post-Brexit Britain. |
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""supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements"
Incorrect, problems throughout the automotive industry are due to microchip shortages (why don't we make 'em ourselves and have to reply on imports? It's by far the process most damaging to the environment and no "Western" manufacturer would be able to get away with it) and the surprising amount of automotive equipment coming from the Ukraine: BMW wiring looms, for example.
Nothing at all to do with BREXIT, whoever would have believed I'm defending it! Well, not blaming it at least...
We don't make modern microchips ourselves because building a modern chip fabrication plant costs well over £100 billion. It's a country-sized investment, that can only pay back when there are global-sized sales. An EU invested fab might be possible. But not for chicken shit third tier countries like post-Brexit Britain."
Huawei have invested a few billion at their r&d facility in Cambridge recognising the strength of innovation from the UK, so I agree about investment having to be a socialist investment it is just a pity the UK do not invest in innovation rather than endless debt repaying bond dividends.  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
""supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements"
Incorrect, problems throughout the automotive industry are due to microchip shortages (why don't we make 'em ourselves and have to reply on imports? It's by far the process most damaging to the environment and no "Western" manufacturer would be able to get away with it) and the surprising amount of automotive equipment coming from the Ukraine: BMW wiring looms, for example.
Nothing at all to do with BREXIT, whoever would have believed I'm defending it! Well, not blaming it at least...
We don't make modern microchips ourselves because building a modern chip fabrication plant costs well over £100 billion. It's a country-sized investment, that can only pay back when there are global-sized sales. An EU invested fab might be possible. But not for chicken shit third tier countries like post-Brexit Britain.
Huawei have invested a few billion at their r&d facility in Cambridge recognising the strength of innovation from the UK, so I agree about investment having to be a socialist investment it is just a pity the UK do not invest in innovation rather than endless debt repaying bond dividends. "
Do we have the skills to be worthy of investment? Yes.
However, why is it Huawei, a company defined as a security risk, the one investing so heavily in R&D in telecommunications (not manufacture) here?
Where is that intellectual property and knowledge ending up?
We are not attractive to manufacture at scale. Specialist, small scale with a high enough margin, certainly yes. However, Brexit makes as no more attractive to do this but does make us more attractive for slightly more dodgy global companies which will face slightly less scrutiny in Brexit Britain than EU Britain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post. |
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"Perhaps the problem isn't Brexit? Perhaps it's the service economy that we have needs to adapt with some more technical and manufacturing sectors? We have stopped making things like we used to since the 1990's, that needs to change."
Perhaps, but really, it was brexit.
It was expected to be bad for the economy, it is bad for the economy.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post."
Why should it not exist and according to which "doom mongers"?
Is your company an exception or do you not know? What does that tell you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We don't make modern microchips ourselves because building a modern chip fabrication plant costs well over £100 billion."
Honestly, we don't even need to do that. We recently bought a fireguard for our log burner from Amazon but returned it as it was too big and the paint scraped off to easily. It was made in China but could easily have been made here and it really wouldn't take much for that.
We would much prefer to pay more for something built properly with good quality materials than cheap crap from China. Even the furniture from Oak Furniture Land is built in India these days. |
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"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post."
. At least your post reflects the reality of Brexit . On a simplistic basis it is only a few extra bits of paperwork. This is hardly going to do any long term damage and companies adapt to changing procedures . A small additional cost is simply offer against the long term benefits |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post.
Why should it not exist and according to which "doom mongers"?
Is your company an exception or do you not know? What does that tell you?"
There were plenty on this forum alone who expected Brexit to be a disaster, indeed just about anything that is going wrong (usually economy wise) is laid at the feet of Brexit.
I would not say the company is an exception however there are not many in the line of manufacture that we do though there are plenty in a similar vein.
Anecdotally it appears to me that the larger the company the more affected it may be (by Brexit) but the size can be its saviour if its profitable and they cut the workforce by removing the excess management / office staff that do not actually produce anything.
A smaller company with a smaller workforce that may include people doing multiple jobs may have less overheads however it is very reliant on specific staff remaining as its difficult to get people who can do the work.
Many have armfuls of qualifications but very little if any practical experience and there does seem to be less in the younger range who can work on their feet and work out how to do things without others input.
What it tells me is that there is a line that if crossed with bloat in the workforce you will struggle yet you need the necessary staff to do the work yet it has to be staff who can do it and are not reliant on others to do it. |
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"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post. . At least your post reflects the reality of Brexit . On a simplistic basis it is only a few extra bits of paperwork. This is hardly going to do any long term damage and companies adapt to changing procedures . A small additional cost is simply offer against the long term benefits "
"Long term benefits".
Lol. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"What argument I hear is it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
But it depends on the level of better.
Better than before the referendum? That’s the benchmark folks.
We know it will never be as good as that. If anyone tells you other wise, they are either a liar or an idiot."
I think the only “better” we can realistically hope for is the moment it stops getting worse and that’s about it. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post. . At least your post reflects the reality of Brexit . On a simplistic basis it is only a few extra bits of paperwork. This is hardly going to do any long term damage and companies adapt to changing procedures . A small additional cost is simply offer against the long term benefits "
Oh that’s good...please do tell us what those long term benefits will be. |
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"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post. . At least your post reflects the reality of Brexit . On a simplistic basis it is only a few extra bits of paperwork. This is hardly going to do any long term damage and companies adapt to changing procedures . A small additional cost is simply offer against the long term benefits
Oh that’s good...please do tell us what those long term benefits will be."
I thought that you said in a previous post that you read all Daily newspapers. Did you miss page 12 in one newspaper today about ditching protectionist EU trade mark rules. We can scrap decades old Brussels rules that allow brands to charge British shoppers higher prices |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post. . At least your post reflects the reality of Brexit . On a simplistic basis it is only a few extra bits of paperwork. This is hardly going to do any long term damage and companies adapt to changing procedures . A small additional cost is simply offer against the long term benefits
Oh that’s good...please do tell us what those long term benefits will be. I thought that you said in a previous post that you read all Daily newspapers. Did you miss page 12 in one newspaper today about ditching protectionist EU trade mark rules. We can scrap decades old Brussels rules that allow brands to charge British shoppers higher prices "
Lolz it’s Christmas so I am allowed to switch off.
Hold on I thought you only just joined this site? Is that an admission to having multiple profiles Pat? The post where I said something along those lines was from months ago!
Anyway, explain how those rules work (the rules the UK helped to write and approved) and then explain why “brands” will then start charging British consumers less? You honestly believe they will charge less |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post. . At least your post reflects the reality of Brexit . On a simplistic basis it is only a few extra bits of paperwork. This is hardly going to do any long term damage and companies adapt to changing procedures . A small additional cost is simply offer against the long term benefits
Oh that’s good...please do tell us what those long term benefits will be. I thought that you said in a previous post that you read all Daily newspapers. Did you miss page 12 in one newspaper today about ditching protectionist EU trade mark rules. We can scrap decades old Brussels rules that allow brands to charge British shoppers higher prices
Lolz it’s Christmas so I am allowed to switch off.
Hold on I thought you only just joined this site? Is that an admission to having multiple profiles Pat? The post where I said something along those lines was from months ago!
Anyway, explain how those rules work (the rules the UK helped to write and approved) and then explain why “brands” will then start charging British consumers less? You honestly believe they will charge less "
tbf it's not the brands per se. It will allow tescos to bring in Levi's from the US.
Tesco's of course could charge almost as much as the levi store (assuming it's the same quality, I have no idea if levi sell the same type of jeans across all countries).
The EU ruling was based on levi believing that having their brand in Tesco will devalue their brand.
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"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO..."
We are stupid if we don't learn from our experiences, especially those that have significant negative impacts. We don't deserve the name homo sapiens, if not willing to honour it.
We were sold a pup, of an 'oven ready deal'. Losses are every year, compounded. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post.
Why should it not exist and according to which "doom mongers"?
Is your company an exception or do you not know? What does that tell you?
There were plenty on this forum alone who expected Brexit to be a disaster, indeed just about anything that is going wrong (usually economy wise) is laid at the feet of Brexit.
I would not say the company is an exception however there are not many in the line of manufacture that we do though there are plenty in a similar vein.
Anecdotally it appears to me that the larger the company the more affected it may be (by Brexit) but the size can be its saviour if its profitable and they cut the workforce by removing the excess management / office staff that do not actually produce anything.
A smaller company with a smaller workforce that may include people doing multiple jobs may have less overheads however it is very reliant on specific staff remaining as its difficult to get people who can do the work.
Many have armfuls of qualifications but very little if any practical experience and there does seem to be less in the younger range who can work on their feet and work out how to do things without others input.
What it tells me is that there is a line that if crossed with bloat in the workforce you will struggle yet you need the necessary staff to do the work yet it has to be staff who can do it and are not reliant on others to do it."
Objectively, Brexit has had a negative effect on the UK economy and subjectivity on the fabric of society.
So, actually, you are saying that your company is a special case, but that wouldn't allow you to make a sweeping statement. There was no, actual, indication that your company should "not exist" either.
"Brexit onslaught deepens as a third of all UK exporters to EU vanish due to red tape knockout"
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/
The biggest problems, anecdotally and in reality, are for smaller companies who do not have offices in multiple countries and who cannot adapt or install IT systems and hire more staff to dedicate.
"Firms frustrated by post-Brexit trade red tape"
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64052849
The rest of your comments about staff seem to be on a different topic.
Are all of the companies that have stopped exporting, lost exports or suffered increased costs and delays just lying because they are remoaners? |
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post.
Why should it not exist and according to which "doom mongers"?
Is your company an exception or do you not know? What does that tell you?
There were plenty on this forum alone who expected Brexit to be a disaster, indeed just about anything that is going wrong (usually economy wise) is laid at the feet of Brexit.
I would not say the company is an exception however there are not many in the line of manufacture that we do though there are plenty in a similar vein.
Anecdotally it appears to me that the larger the company the more affected it may be (by Brexit) but the size can be its saviour if its profitable and they cut the workforce by removing the excess management / office staff that do not actually produce anything.
A smaller company with a smaller workforce that may include people doing multiple jobs may have less overheads however it is very reliant on specific staff remaining as its difficult to get people who can do the work.
Many have armfuls of qualifications but very little if any practical experience and there does seem to be less in the younger range who can work on their feet and work out how to do things without others input.
What it tells me is that there is a line that if crossed with bloat in the workforce you will struggle yet you need the necessary staff to do the work yet it has to be staff who can do it and are not reliant on others to do it.
Objectively, Brexit has had a negative effect on the UK economy and subjectivity on the fabric of society.
So, actually, you are saying that your company is a special case, but that wouldn't allow you to make a sweeping statement. There was no, actual, indication that your company should "not exist" either.
"Brexit onslaught deepens as a third of all UK exporters to EU vanish due to red tape knockout"
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/
The biggest problems, anecdotally and in reality, are for smaller companies who do not have offices in multiple countries and who cannot adapt or install IT systems and hire more staff to dedicate.
"Firms frustrated by post-Brexit trade red tape"
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64052849
The rest of your comments about staff seem to be on a different topic.
Are all of the companies that have stopped exporting, lost exports or suffered increased costs and delays just lying because they are remoaners?"
I also wonder if it is more expensive now, which I gather it is, to import car parts from the eu? Lets say that a car company is making a car and they need parts from another country in the eu, wouldnt there be an added cost on top of the normal transporting cost of it? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post.
Why should it not exist and according to which "doom mongers"?
Is your company an exception or do you not know? What does that tell you?
There were plenty on this forum alone who expected Brexit to be a disaster, indeed just about anything that is going wrong (usually economy wise) is laid at the feet of Brexit.
I would not say the company is an exception however there are not many in the line of manufacture that we do though there are plenty in a similar vein.
Anecdotally it appears to me that the larger the company the more affected it may be (by Brexit) but the size can be its saviour if its profitable and they cut the workforce by removing the excess management / office staff that do not actually produce anything.
A smaller company with a smaller workforce that may include people doing multiple jobs may have less overheads however it is very reliant on specific staff remaining as its difficult to get people who can do the work.
Many have armfuls of qualifications but very little if any practical experience and there does seem to be less in the younger range who can work on their feet and work out how to do things without others input.
What it tells me is that there is a line that if crossed with bloat in the workforce you will struggle yet you need the necessary staff to do the work yet it has to be staff who can do it and are not reliant on others to do it.
Objectively, Brexit has had a negative effect on the UK economy and subjectivity on the fabric of society.
So, actually, you are saying that your company is a special case, but that wouldn't allow you to make a sweeping statement. There was no, actual, indication that your company should "not exist" either.
"Brexit onslaught deepens as a third of all UK exporters to EU vanish due to red tape knockout"
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/
The biggest problems, anecdotally and in reality, are for smaller companies who do not have offices in multiple countries and who cannot adapt or install IT systems and hire more staff to dedicate.
"Firms frustrated by post-Brexit trade red tape"
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64052849
The rest of your comments about staff seem to be on a different topic.
Are all of the companies that have stopped exporting, lost exports or suffered increased costs and delays just lying because they are remoaners?I also wonder if it is more expensive now, which I gather it is, to import car parts from the eu? Lets say that a car company is making a car and they need parts from another country in the eu, wouldnt there be an added cost on top of the normal transporting cost of it?"
There is a cost in delay and uncertainty in addition to the administration costs.
Remember that there are finished parts for assembly into cars, but also the manufacture of those components.
However, the industry is also receiving increased subsidies to smooth this over.so the consequences (other than costs to the taxpayer) aren't as bad as they could be.
Unfortunately, the big investments in battery manufacturing and chip manufacture are more likely (although not guaranteed) to go to the EU due to the larger market and larger subsidies available for investments of this scale. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO...
We are stupid if we don't learn from our experiences, especially those that have significant negative impacts. We don't deserve the name homo sapiens, if not willing to honour it.
We were sold a pup, of an 'oven ready deal'. Losses are every year, compounded. "
Yes ‘oven ready lies’ more like. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The burden of proof that we are better off lays in the hands of those who voted for brexit.
I am still unconvinced it’s ever going to to work as long as this government is still in charge.
So until brexiteers can definitively prove that we are better off, I am going to not believe anything they say. |
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"The manufacturing company i work for should no longer exist according to the doom mongers after brexit and i thought that Covid would kill it as its to do with socialising.
Oddly though its prospered with full a full order book and the biggest customers by far country wise are the French followed by the Germans neither of whom have any difficulty importing into their countries apart from regulations that existed pre Brexit as well as post.
Why should it not exist and according to which "doom mongers"?
Is your company an exception or do you not know? What does that tell you?
There were plenty on this forum alone who expected Brexit to be a disaster, indeed just about anything that is going wrong (usually economy wise) is laid at the feet of Brexit.
I would not say the company is an exception however there are not many in the line of manufacture that we do though there are plenty in a similar vein.
Anecdotally it appears to me that the larger the company the more affected it may be (by Brexit) but the size can be its saviour if its profitable and they cut the workforce by removing the excess management / office staff that do not actually produce anything.
A smaller company with a smaller workforce that may include people doing multiple jobs may have less overheads however it is very reliant on specific staff remaining as its difficult to get people who can do the work.
Many have armfuls of qualifications but very little if any practical experience and there does seem to be less in the younger range who can work on their feet and work out how to do things without others input.
What it tells me is that there is a line that if crossed with bloat in the workforce you will struggle yet you need the necessary staff to do the work yet it has to be staff who can do it and are not reliant on others to do it.
Objectively, Brexit has had a negative effect on the UK economy and subjectivity on the fabric of society.
So, actually, you are saying that your company is a special case, but that wouldn't allow you to make a sweeping statement. There was no, actual, indication that your company should "not exist" either.
"Brexit onslaught deepens as a third of all UK exporters to EU vanish due to red tape knockout"
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/
The biggest problems, anecdotally and in reality, are for smaller companies who do not have offices in multiple countries and who cannot adapt or install IT systems and hire more staff to dedicate.
"Firms frustrated by post-Brexit trade red tape"
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64052849
The rest of your comments about staff seem to be on a different topic.
Are all of the companies that have stopped exporting, lost exports or suffered increased costs and delays just lying because they are remoaners?I also wonder if it is more expensive now, which I gather it is, to import car parts from the eu? Lets say that a car company is making a car and they need parts from another country in the eu, wouldnt there be an added cost on top of the normal transporting cost of it?
There is a cost in delay and uncertainty in addition to the administration costs.
Remember that there are finished parts for assembly into cars, but also the manufacture of those components.
However, the industry is also receiving increased subsidies to smooth this over.so the consequences (other than costs to the taxpayer) aren't as bad as they could be.
Unfortunately, the big investments in battery manufacturing and chip manufacture are more likely (although not guaranteed) to go to the EU due to the larger market and larger subsidies available for investments of this scale."
Yes, there is a cost of delay too and those costs too. I think that it would be the brexit tax added onto it, which if there wouldnt be a brexit, it would no doubt be alot cheaper too  |
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"The burden of proof that we are better off lays in the hands of those who voted for brexit.
I am still unconvinced it’s ever going to to work as long as this government is still in charge.
So until brexiteers can definitively prove that we are better off, I am going to not believe anything they say."
Most of them seem to either just go for either.
1. It's done, don't think about it, talk about it, just ignore it.
2. Yes it's big pile of shit, but it's the fault of Corbyn/Remainers/EU/etc
3. Reality doesn't exist, brexit is great, aliens built the pyramids. |
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From the outside looking in.
I Mr would always have my Xmas party in Liverpool, we could fly quicker and cheaper to The Pool than get the train to Dublin.
We had not been over in two years because of covid19, but this year we did get some what of a shock,
Now all these things are small but do add up negatively on our trip.
The flight would normally get into Liverpool at 1030 now ot lads at 4 ,nothing to do with Brexit or covid19 it's just Ryanair, but you still have to take a day off work yet you don't get into the city until 6pm ,a day lost ,
The taxi for 4 ,would be £4 ahead, we were charged £7.50 ahead ,burger and chips in a pub £15 pints any where between £4.40 - £5 hotel is price's are on par with Ireland and I just noticed it was very quiet around, bear in mind in was the weekend of the England France game,to top it off I was made to pay £1 for a zip lock bag in security, for my toiletries because the bag I had was too big even though it made it through security on the way out no problem, we loved looking forward to a cheap weekend in Liverpool, its not that anymore  |
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By *ermbiMan
over a year ago
Ballyshannon |
There was no plan before the referendum and there is still no plan.
Government were ill prepared and hadn't the first clue about negotiating a way out. EU had their ducks in a row and stayed united.
Govt thought it could get what it wanted and overplayed its hand.
MPs hadn't a clue what was going on and led to shambolic scenes in parliament . Bad deals led to today's crisis with unfortunate pandemic thrown in too. Trade deals have been poor with other countries looking after their own interests first. And they are right to do so. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"In 2016, just before the Brex it referendum, the UK economy was 90% the size of Germany’s, but by late-2022 it declined to less than 70%. So much winning!"
That is a valid point to raise but in ballance it must be pointed out that Germany sill has red passports |
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"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO..."
You have a point. However the learning point is, once again, politicians lie. What they promised from Brexit was never going to happen.
As we hear of Sunak proposing to remove the right to strike from public sector employees we see one reason the right wing supported it. Let us see where our new found freedom takes us when they strike down the Human Rights Act.
The bigest learning point here is for the Scottish people. Whilst the SNP presses forward with its plans for independence every independent analysis of Independence shows a significant reduction in the economy of Scotland and vast growth in unsustainable debt. What price giving the bird to those posh boys in Westminister? |
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"There was no plan before the referendum and there is still no plan.
Government were ill prepared and hadn't the first clue about negotiating a way out. EU had their ducks in a row and stayed united.
Govt thought it could get what it wanted and overplayed its hand.
MPs hadn't a clue what was going on and led to shambolic scenes in parliament . Bad deals led to today's crisis with unfortunate pandemic thrown in too. Trade deals have been poor with other countries looking after their own interests first. And they are right to do so. "
There was a plan. It mostly worked. Crash the value of sterling for some disaster capitalism, and shorting the £. Avoiding the new EU rules to close tax loopholes for billionaires. Being able to remove EU safety regulations, workers rights etc (currently in the process of scrapping), opening up the NHS and British markets to substandard US food produce etc (also currently being negotiated).
The collateral damage to the UK, the economy and British businesses is inconsequential. They didn't even consider they would need a plan, sure why would they, people keep voting for the Tories no matter what. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
So much winning...In 2016, Brexiters were warned that voting to Leave would remove the EU as guarantor of workers rights.
On the 31st of December, Jacob Rees-Mogg's Brexit Freedoms Bill will come into force, removing your right to paid holiday, paid maternity leave and various health and safety laws. |
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"So much winning...In 2016, Brexiters were warned that voting to Leave would remove the EU as guarantor of workers rights.
On the 31st of December, Jacob Rees-Mogg's Brexit Freedoms Bill will come into force, removing your right to paid holiday, paid maternity leave and various health and safety laws."
The Brexit Freedoms Bill (or as it's properly known, the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill) was introduced to the house in September, and is currently at the report stage in the Commons. It's not law yet.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3340
If it does become law, it just sunsets the special status of all EU retained law on 31st December 2023, which would allow us to start the process of amending or repealing such laws.
There's no need to panic just yet. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"So much winning...In 2016, Brexiters were warned that voting to Leave would remove the EU as guarantor of workers rights.
On the 31st of December, Jacob Rees-Mogg's Brexit Freedoms Bill will come into force, removing your right to paid holiday, paid maternity leave and various health and safety laws.
The Brexit Freedoms Bill (or as it's properly known, the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill) was introduced to the house in September, and is currently at the report stage in the Commons. It's not law yet.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3340
If it does become law, it just sunsets the special status of all EU retained law on 31st December 2023, which would allow us to start the process of amending or repealing such laws.
There's no need to panic just yet."
So looks like just over 1 year before any changes to start if I read correctly. If they do change things like workers rights ect, is that set in stone forever or can an incoming Labour goverment simply swap it back to what it is now (via the house of course)? Would be an easy vote winner for Labour to say they will simply reverse this in my opinion |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??
Strange such a global non political organisation sees it as a huge impending danger for U.K. citizens. |
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"So much winning...In 2016, Brexiters were warned that voting to Leave would remove the EU as guarantor of workers rights.
On the 31st of December, Jacob Rees-Mogg's Brexit Freedoms Bill will come into force, removing your right to paid holiday, paid maternity leave and various health and safety laws.
The Brexit Freedoms Bill (or as it's properly known, the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill) was introduced to the house in September, and is currently at the report stage in the Commons. It's not law yet.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3340
If it does become law, it just sunsets the special status of all EU retained law on 31st December 2023, which would allow us to start the process of amending or repealing such laws.
There's no need to panic just yet.
So looks like just over 1 year before any changes to start if I read correctly. If they do change things like workers rights ect, is that set in stone forever or can an incoming Labour goverment simply swap it back to what it is now (via the house of course)? Would be an easy vote winner for Labour to say they will simply reverse this in my opinion"
That would have to rely on Labour getting voted in, and then Labour going against the spirit of brexit. Which I can't see either happening.
What I think is more likely is the Tory PR machine will convince their core voters that the problem nowadays is people having workers rights, to get them to support any removals of said rights. Which is exactly what they did restricting freedoms to protest and what they're trying to do with laws to restrict strikes.
It's easier for them to demonise people striving for positive change in society, than it is to actually make any positive changes. |
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"If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??"
Because it does give the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights.
At the moment, lots of workers rights are given under EU-directed legislation, that cannot be repealed. The bill would remove that special status, and allow changes to be made. Theoretically all workers rights could be removed completely.
But is that likely? Do the government really want to remove the right of workers to take paid holiday? Even if they did, would they get all of their MPs to vote for it, let alone convince any of the opposition. Would they find themselves voted out pretty quickly afterwards?
Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen. |
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"If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??
Because it does give the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights.
At the moment, lots of workers rights are given under EU-directed legislation, that cannot be repealed. The bill would remove that special status, and allow changes to be made. Theoretically all workers rights could be removed completely.
But is that likely? Do the government really want to remove the right of workers to take paid holiday? Even if they did, would they get all of their MPs to vote for it, let alone convince any of the opposition. Would they find themselves voted out pretty quickly afterwards?
Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen."
"no one wants that, and it won't happen" isn't strictly true. Did people want to be poorer and risk having their workers rights removed? I'm guessing not, yet they voted for it anyway.
The government are elite level at PR and spin. They can convince their core voters that workers rights are the cause of a whole raft of problems. If they want to. Which personally, i think was the purpose of supporting brexit for many, such as Tim Martin (who incidentally donates large sums of money to the Conservatives).
|
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"So much winning...In 2016, Brexiters were warned that voting to Leave would remove the EU as guarantor of workers rights.
On the 31st of December, Jacob Rees-Mogg's Brexit Freedoms Bill will come into force, removing your right to paid holiday, paid maternity leave and various health and safety laws.
The Brexit Freedoms Bill (or as it's properly known, the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill) was introduced to the house in September, and is currently at the report stage in the Commons. It's not law yet.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3340
If it does become law, it just sunsets the special status of all EU retained law on 31st December 2023, which would allow us to start the process of amending or repealing such laws.
There's no need to panic just yet.
So looks like just over 1 year before any changes to start if I read correctly. If they do change things like workers rights ect, is that set in stone forever or can an incoming Labour goverment simply swap it back to what it is now (via the house of course)? Would be an easy vote winner for Labour to say they will simply reverse this in my opinion
That would have to rely on Labour getting voted in, and then Labour going against the spirit of brexit. Which I can't see either happening.
What I think is more likely is the Tory PR machine will convince their core voters that the problem nowadays is people having workers rights, to get them to support any removals of said rights. Which is exactly what they did restricting freedoms to protest and what they're trying to do with laws to restrict strikes.
It's easier for them to demonise people striving for positive change in society, than it is to actually make any positive changes. "
Yes it relies on Labour or any non Tory government winning the next GE. I know your feelings on this but respectfully disagree. Of course this would be great campaign material for all non Tory parties if the Tories actually scrapped workers rights which could be used pre election. Personally I don't see reversing any changes as drastic as these as going against brexit. One of the things I recall is people saying that after brexit, anything like these possible changes are squarely at the feet of the government and it's not possible to lay the blame on the EU anymore. Tories change working rights or messes up in another way equals less votes directly. That's just my personal view which I suspect differs to yours but that's life I guess |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??
Because it does give the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights.
At the moment, lots of workers rights are given under EU-directed legislation, that cannot be repealed. The bill would remove that special status, and allow changes to be made. Theoretically all workers rights could be removed completely.
But is that likely? Do the government really want to remove the right of workers to take paid holiday? Even if they did, would they get all of their MPs to vote for it, let alone convince any of the opposition. Would they find themselves voted out pretty quickly afterwards?
Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen."
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used? Odd don’t you think?
Amnesty also point out our borders bill restricts some more basic rights .
Also the newly introduced restrictions on the rights to protest which now gives the home office not the police the ultimate right to decide who can and who can’t protest. That’s political control of a very basic right to protest. Putin politics at its finest.
At this rate they’ll be live aid concerts across the world to help the poor oppressed of Britain.
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"So much winning...In 2016, Brexiters were warned that voting to Leave would remove the EU as guarantor of workers rights.
On the 31st of December, Jacob Rees-Mogg's Brexit Freedoms Bill will come into force, removing your right to paid holiday, paid maternity leave and various health and safety laws.
The Brexit Freedoms Bill (or as it's properly known, the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill) was introduced to the house in September, and is currently at the report stage in the Commons. It's not law yet.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3340
If it does become law, it just sunsets the special status of all EU retained law on 31st December 2023, which would allow us to start the process of amending or repealing such laws.
There's no need to panic just yet.
So looks like just over 1 year before any changes to start if I read correctly. If they do change things like workers rights ect, is that set in stone forever or can an incoming Labour goverment simply swap it back to what it is now (via the house of course)? Would be an easy vote winner for Labour to say they will simply reverse this in my opinion
That would have to rely on Labour getting voted in, and then Labour going against the spirit of brexit. Which I can't see either happening.
What I think is more likely is the Tory PR machine will convince their core voters that the problem nowadays is people having workers rights, to get them to support any removals of said rights. Which is exactly what they did restricting freedoms to protest and what they're trying to do with laws to restrict strikes.
It's easier for them to demonise people striving for positive change in society, than it is to actually make any positive changes.
Yes it relies on Labour or any non Tory government winning the next GE. I know your feelings on this but respectfully disagree. Of course this would be great campaign material for all non Tory parties if the Tories actually scrapped workers rights which could be used pre election. Personally I don't see reversing any changes as drastic as these as going against brexit. One of the things I recall is people saying that after brexit, anything like these possible changes are squarely at the feet of the government and it's not possible to lay the blame on the EU anymore. Tories change working rights or messes up in another way equals less votes directly. That's just my personal view which I suspect differs to yours but that's life I guess"
I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. |
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"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen."
"Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?"
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?"
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
So there we have the first removal of protections for workers.
So the legislation is removing rights from day one. Interesting how you feel that is a positive.
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"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
So there we have the first removal of protections for workers.
So the legislation is removing rights from day one. Interesting how you feel that is a positive.
"
. Removing unnecessary record keeping is a very positive step. Administrative tasks such as this are a complete waste of everyone's time . No one is being asked to work extra hours , we are just removing time wasting tasks . |
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"If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??
Because it does give the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights.
At the moment, lots of workers rights are given under EU-directed legislation, that cannot be repealed. The bill would remove that special status, and allow changes to be made. Theoretically all workers rights could be removed completely.
But is that likely? Do the government really want to remove the right of workers to take paid holiday? Even if they did, would they get all of their MPs to vote for it, let alone convince any of the opposition. Would they find themselves voted out pretty quickly afterwards?
Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
"no one wants that, and it won't happen" isn't strictly true. Did people want to be poorer and risk having their workers rights removed? I'm guessing not, yet they voted for it anyway.
The government are elite level at PR and spin. They can convince their core voters that workers rights are the cause of a whole raft of problems. If they want to. Which personally, i think was the purpose of supporting brexit for many, such as Tim Martin (who incidentally donates large sums of money to the Conservatives).
"
Maybe we should be analysing why Tim Martin is so successfull and succeeded where many have failed. He has built up a very successfull pub chain from scratch. In addition he is a qualified Barrister so not exactly lacking in education. His success is due to the fact that he is forward looking and progressive. He also adapts quickly to changing times. Thirty pubs are currently up for sale , with contracts having already been exchanged on dome. We need more MPs with his mindset. |
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"If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??
Because it does give the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights.
At the moment, lots of workers rights are given under EU-directed legislation, that cannot be repealed. The bill would remove that special status, and allow changes to be made. Theoretically all workers rights could be removed completely.
But is that likely? Do the government really want to remove the right of workers to take paid holiday? Even if they did, would they get all of their MPs to vote for it, let alone convince any of the opposition. Would they find themselves voted out pretty quickly afterwards?
Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
"no one wants that, and it won't happen" isn't strictly true. Did people want to be poorer and risk having their workers rights removed? I'm guessing not, yet they voted for it anyway.
The government are elite level at PR and spin. They can convince their core voters that workers rights are the cause of a whole raft of problems. If they want to. Which personally, i think was the purpose of supporting brexit for many, such as Tim Martin (who incidentally donates large sums of money to the Conservatives).
Maybe we should be analysing why Tim Martin is so successfull and succeeded where many have failed. He has built up a very successfull pub chain from scratch. In addition he is a qualified Barrister so not exactly lacking in education. His success is due to the fact that he is forward looking and progressive. He also adapts quickly to changing times. Thirty pubs are currently up for sale , with contracts having already been exchanged on dome. We need more MPs with his mindset. "
Tim Martin isn't an MP. |
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"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
So there we have the first removal of protections for workers.
So the legislation is removing rights from day one. Interesting how you feel that is a positive.
. Removing unnecessary record keeping is a very positive step. Administrative tasks such as this are a complete waste of everyone's time . No one is being asked to work extra hours , we are just removing time wasting tasks . "
I know Pat is just here to savage Conservative voters. But I agree with the point he's making here. Their core voters can easily be convinced that workers rights should be scrapped.
I'm sure most of them would argue that all workers should live in gel pods, be connected to cables sucking out our life force and have our subconscious connected into a fake reality. If the Tory PR machine told them to. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
So there we have the first removal of protections for workers.
So the legislation is removing rights from day one. Interesting how you feel that is a positive.
. Removing unnecessary record keeping is a very positive step. Administrative tasks such as this are a complete waste of everyone's time . No one is being asked to work extra hours , we are just removing time wasting tasks . "
Yes we certainly don’t want anyone recording the abuse imposed on workers by unscrupulous bosses as that affects profits. Bad for overseas investors.
Yet again you have no comprehension of the topic. It’s not a paperwork exercise or are you saying employers are planning to have no idea how many hours their staff are working?
Then again it could be fun sitting in your car not knowing if that truck driver alongside you on the motorway has had any sleep in the last three days. Truck roulette!! Bet.com could make a fortune!!  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"If this bill is of no concern why are Amnesty International fighting it and claiming it gives the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights ??
Because it does give the government the ability to remove swathes of our basic rights.
At the moment, lots of workers rights are given under EU-directed legislation, that cannot be repealed. The bill would remove that special status, and allow changes to be made. Theoretically all workers rights could be removed completely.
But is that likely? Do the government really want to remove the right of workers to take paid holiday? Even if they did, would they get all of their MPs to vote for it, let alone convince any of the opposition. Would they find themselves voted out pretty quickly afterwards?
Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
"no one wants that, and it won't happen" isn't strictly true. Did people want to be poorer and risk having their workers rights removed? I'm guessing not, yet they voted for it anyway.
The government are elite level at PR and spin. They can convince their core voters that workers rights are the cause of a whole raft of problems. If they want to. Which personally, i think was the purpose of supporting brexit for many, such as Tim Martin (who incidentally donates large sums of money to the Conservatives).
Maybe we should be analysing why Tim Martin is so successfull and succeeded where many have failed. He has built up a very successfull pub chain from scratch. In addition he is a qualified Barrister so not exactly lacking in education. His success is due to the fact that he is forward looking and progressive. He also adapts quickly to changing times. Thirty pubs are currently up for sale , with contracts having already been exchanged on dome. We need more MPs with his mindset. "
Ah Tim Martin, the Father Jack lookalike. The businessman who exploited workers from the EU with low paid long hours jobs who loudly supported Brexit then when a tonne of his workers returned to their EU countries he moaned he couldn’t get any staff and started lobbying the Govt to develop a new visa scheme for EU workers in hospitality!
The same Tim Martin who has had to divest himself of 20 pubs due to a dramatic drop in sales/revenue. So much winning! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?"
You see all that sounds eminently sensible. That is the clever approach to take. As if anyone wants to remove workers rights! Nothing to see here. Nothing to concern yourself with as it is just about all that pesky admin.
Of course a Tory (or brexit supporting) govt will not reduce workers rights. As you say that would be electoral suicide.
No what a Tory (or Brexit supporting) govt will do is “remove the requirements from businesses to free them up to be entrepreneurial” and to fend off criticism on those companies then exploiting workers they will say “we will let the market decide” and “if companies do not offer good working conditions then people won’t work for them and will seek out other jobs” which again will sound all lovely and reasonable.
But...
What if the company you work for is the only major employer in your area? Oh some will say “move to another area with more jobs” which again on the surface sounds eminently sensible.
But...
Areas with more jobs tend to also have higher rents/house prices. What if you have children in the local school. What if your partner also works, do they also need to change jobs in a new area? Good luck with securing a mortgage or rent agreement when you are about to change jobs and re-enter a probation period (although protections around notice periods etc may then also change anyway).
So freeing up business to “make them more competitive” can only mean operating on a level playing field with countries with little or no worker rights. Singapore-On-Thames here we come.
Oh and yes of course a new govt (ie Labour) could indeed overturn but then the headlines will be all about how they are knee capping businesses and making the UK uncompetitive. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
P.S. And it doesn’t even mean it would be as extreme as removing all rights to become like Asian and African states. Just look at the USA. Check out paid holiday allowance there. Wave bye bye to four weeks paid leave on top of bank holidays. Have a look at worker protections in the USA, do they have a TUPE equivalent?
Unless you are the business owner, how could anyone think removing any amount of workers rights is a good thing to do? |
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"One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?"
"So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?"
It's almost like you're deliberately misunderstanding.
The working time directive doesn't limit 'compulsory hours', it limits the amount of overtime anyone can work in a week.
In my industry we have slack weeks where not much needs doing, and we can all take Fridays off. Then we have busy weeks where we might need to put in 50 or 60 hours to get the delivery done on time. Without the opt-out, the working Time directive would prevent us from having that flexible system.
Even with the opt-out the law means that the HR department has to keep records of who has, and who hasn't, opted out. They have to perform weekly checks of who's worked what hours and then match that up to the opt-outs. They have to annually get everyone to reaffirm their opt-out so that they can be seen to follow the law.
It's completely pointless bureaucracy, and getting rid of it would be a good thing. |
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"No what a Tory (or Brexit supporting) govt will do is “remove the requirements from businesses to free them up to be entrepreneurial” ..."
I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree, but the Brexit freedom bill doesn't change any laws, it just unlocks the laws so that we have the possibility of changing them.
Call me an old softie, but I like to wait for the parties to actually propose a change before I start condemning them for doing so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
It's almost like you're deliberately misunderstanding.
The working time directive doesn't limit 'compulsory hours', it limits the amount of overtime anyone can work in a week.
In my industry we have slack weeks where not much needs doing, and we can all take Fridays off. Then we have busy weeks where we might need to put in 50 or 60 hours to get the delivery done on time. Without the opt-out, the working Time directive would prevent us from having that flexible system.
Even with the opt-out the law means that the HR department has to keep records of who has, and who hasn't, opted out. They have to perform weekly checks of who's worked what hours and then match that up to the opt-outs. They have to annually get everyone to reaffirm their opt-out so that they can be seen to follow the law.
It's completely pointless bureaucracy, and getting rid of it would be a good thing."
I'm guessing hours are recorded anyway?
I don't know the pros and cons in detail, but the cost here feels minimal. There would need to be no benefits anywhere for me to say it's a bad thing.
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"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
So there we have the first removal of protections for workers.
So the legislation is removing rights from day one. Interesting how you feel that is a positive.
. Removing unnecessary record keeping is a very positive step. Administrative tasks such as this are a complete waste of everyone's time . No one is being asked to work extra hours , we are just removing time wasting tasks .
Yes we certainly don’t want anyone recording the abuse imposed on workers by unscrupulous bosses as that affects profits. Bad for overseas investors.
Yet again you have no comprehension of the topic. It’s not a paperwork exercise or are you saying employers are planning to have no idea how many hours their staff are working?
Then again it could be fun sitting in your car not knowing if that truck driver alongside you on the motorway has had any sleep in the last three days. Truck roulette!! Bet.com could make a fortune!! "
. Companies will know exactly how many hours their drivers are working . Most will have their vehicles on tracker and can check at any point in time where their vehicle is . With all the software available to assist in planning and vehicle movement this is one piece of EU legislation that we can safely confine to the dustbin and use the admin time in a more productive manner |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yes, this bill allows the possibility of revoking all workers rights (at some distant point in the future), but in reality, no one wants that, and it won't happen.
Really, then why include it? Why bring in such legislation if it is not going to be used?
It is going to be used. One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
So there we have the first removal of protections for workers.
So the legislation is removing rights from day one. Interesting how you feel that is a positive.
. Removing unnecessary record keeping is a very positive step. Administrative tasks such as this are a complete waste of everyone's time . No one is being asked to work extra hours , we are just removing time wasting tasks .
Yes we certainly don’t want anyone recording the abuse imposed on workers by unscrupulous bosses as that affects profits. Bad for overseas investors.
Yet again you have no comprehension of the topic. It’s not a paperwork exercise or are you saying employers are planning to have no idea how many hours their staff are working?
Then again it could be fun sitting in your car not knowing if that truck driver alongside you on the motorway has had any sleep in the last three days. Truck roulette!! Bet.com could make a fortune!! . Companies will know exactly how many hours their drivers are working . Most will have their vehicles on tracker and can check at any point in time where their vehicle is . With all the software available to assist in planning and vehicle movement this is one piece of EU legislation that we can safely confine to the dustbin and use the admin time in a more productive manner "
So the software and automated systems mean that the information can be gathered with no additional administrative burden.
No problem then.
Next diversion, Pat? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"No what a Tory (or Brexit supporting) govt will do is “remove the requirements from businesses to free them up to be entrepreneurial” ...
I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree, but the Brexit freedom bill doesn't change any laws, it just unlocks the laws so that we have the possibility of changing them.
Call me an old softie, but I like to wait for the parties to actually propose a change before I start condemning them for doing so."
“You old softie”
I suppose we could say past performance is not an indicator of future performance but then again...!
Needing the ability to change something indicates that you do not think the thing is what you want. Why wouldn’t we want gold standard worker protections in place (unless of course once you are no longer part of an immensely powerful trading bloc with collective bargaining power you then need to be more “agile” to compete).
There is some real British exceptionalism in the brexit supporting camp. Absolute arrogance that all those EU countries and nearly half a billion people have got it wrong and only we know what to do and we should do it differently (conveniently ignoring that not a single rule, regulation or law in the EU was forced upon the UK or created without our involvement in the first place).
As I said in a follow on post, many business owners look at the USA enviously. That is the model we will go down if they can. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"No what a Tory (or Brexit supporting) govt will do is “remove the requirements from businesses to free them up to be entrepreneurial” ...
I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree, but the Brexit freedom bill doesn't change any laws, it just unlocks the laws so that we have the possibility of changing them.
Call me an old softie, but I like to wait for the parties to actually propose a change before I start condemning them for doing so.
“You old softie”
I suppose we could say past performance is not an indicator of future performance but then again...!
Needing the ability to change something indicates that you do not think the thing is what you want. Why wouldn’t we want gold standard worker protections in place (unless of course once you are no longer part of an immensely powerful trading bloc with collective bargaining power you then need to be more “agile” to compete).
There is some real British exceptionalism in the brexit supporting camp. Absolute arrogance that all those EU countries and nearly half a billion people have got it wrong and only we know what to do and we should do it differently (conveniently ignoring that not a single rule, regulation or law in the EU was forced upon the UK or created without our involvement in the first place).
As I said in a follow on post, many business owners look at the USA enviously. That is the model we will go down if they can."
This would also allow foreign companies to asset strict UK "investments" far more efficiently and conveniently. |
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"Needing the ability to change something indicates that you do not think the thing is what you want."
In this case I really think that they just want to remove the last vestiges of EU control. Assuming that the bill becomes law, we'll find out in just over a year's time. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Needing the ability to change something indicates that you do not think the thing is what you want.
In this case I really think that they just want to remove the last vestiges of EU control. Assuming that the bill becomes law, we'll find out in just over a year's time."
That's not actually what will happen.
The EU exerts no "control" with this legislation. It is incorporated into our own.
Many laws derived from European legislation will remain in place.
Nothing has to be removed unless there is a specific reason to change it.
It's just an exercise in theatre. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Needing the ability to change something indicates that you do not think the thing is what you want.
In this case I really think that they just want to remove the last vestiges of EU control. Assuming that the bill becomes law, we'll find out in just over a year's time."
EasyUK has addressed a point on law, so I will just say that “wait and see” is not a good strategy. Making it clear that a reduction in workers rights will not be acceptable and shout about it now. Trouble is so many people have apathy, nothing will happen until it is too late. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"One of the first changes will be to remove the working time directive. It's an EU law which the UK has an opt-out for, so it requires companies to monitor working hours, and to keep records of which employees have opted out and which haven't. Pointless bureaucracy which the bill will allow us to remove.
But it won't be used to remove workers rights to paid holidays, because literally no one thinks that's a good idea.
The purpose of the proposed Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill is to allow us to make changes to laws that previously were EU controlled. That doesn't meant that the intention is to rip up all workers rights. Why would any government do that when it would be political suicide, and would be promptly reversed at the next general election?
So restricting compulsory hours to 48 is a bad thing? How is that pointless bureaucracy?
It's almost like you're deliberately misunderstanding.
The working time directive doesn't limit 'compulsory hours', it limits the amount of overtime anyone can work in a week.
In my industry we have slack weeks where not much needs doing, and we can all take Fridays off. Then we have busy weeks where we might need to put in 50 or 60 hours to get the delivery done on time. Without the opt-out, the working Time directive would prevent us from having that flexible system.
Even with the opt-out the law means that the HR department has to keep records of who has, and who hasn't, opted out. They have to perform weekly checks of who's worked what hours and then match that up to the opt-outs. They have to annually get everyone to reaffirm their opt-out so that they can be seen to follow the law.
It's completely pointless bureaucracy, and getting rid of it would be a good thing."
I’ve employed a lot of people over the last 35 years so I do indeed understand .
If your company admin can’t count hours in a few seconds per employee then you need new admin. Or buy more up to date software.
The opt out has always been allowed through the legislation and has always been in place for workers save those in dangerous to others jobs such as truck drivers as I mentioned.
I employed a lot of truck drivers so studied the fine print of this legislation. Owner drivers tried to get opt outs but the safety concerns overruled their complaints.
That was a very good thing and the implementation of the new rules reduced the number of incidents of truck drivers falling asleep at the wheel.
The rules stop exploitation and to say it is just paperwork is totally misunderstanding the point of the legislation which we here in the U.K. helped to write.
It is a backward step for all U.K. employees. And I say that as an employer.
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By *axyMan
over a year ago
Great Ayton |
"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
What are the long term gains you are still expecting to materialise? Will it be growth in export markets for golden hens teeth, flying pig wings, unicorn rainbow horns and sparkling rocking horse shit? Still, we have at least “taken back control” "
Indeed. And control of what? It's not our borders, is it! I asked someone the other day what are the benefits? She said our sovereignty. ?? ?? Great! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
What are the long term gains you are still expecting to materialise? Will it be growth in export markets for golden hens teeth, flying pig wings, unicorn rainbow horns and sparkling rocking horse shit? Still, we have at least “taken back control”
Indeed. And control of what? It's not our borders, is it! I asked someone the other day what are the benefits? She said our sovereignty. ?? ?? Great!"
Yes that’s the sovereignty I keep hearing about but sovereignty of what precisely?
If it’s sovereignty of our economy then the 5% drop in expected GDP seems to show they don’t know what they’re doing.
When asked about the negative effects of Brexit all we get in response is “Don‘t tell em pike!”
Lying, thieving self serving bunch of incompetent arseholes who no longer have the EU to blame for the country’s state so blame people in rubber boats and the so called woke.
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Never in the history of the world have such bad losers been exposed.
Remainers Lost/LOST/Lost but just cannot deal with it, these are the people that chase referees at football matches yet the ref never changes the decision.
YOU LOST! "But"..... but nothing you Lost so move on. |
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"Never in the history of the world have such bad losers been exposed.
Remainers Lost/LOST/Lost but just cannot deal with it, these are the people that chase referees at football matches yet the ref never changes the decision.
YOU LOST! "But"..... but nothing you Lost so move on. "
You seem confused. Unless you're a billionaire, you lost too. |
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"Never in the history of the world have such bad losers been exposed.
Remainers Lost/LOST/Lost but just cannot deal with it, these are the people that chase referees at football matches yet the ref never changes the decision.
YOU LOST! "But"..... but nothing you Lost so move on.
You seem confused. Unless you're a billionaire, you lost too. "
I can live with that if it's so but my point remains, you Lost but cannot accept it. You LOST, I got whatever it results in & accept it as is a democratic decision.
Nothing will change your warped viewpoint that democracy only works if your vote results in a win. Loser.
Not confused, seems obvious to me. |
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"Never in the history of the world have such bad losers been exposed.
Remainers Lost/LOST/Lost but just cannot deal with it, these are the people that chase referees at football matches yet the ref never changes the decision.
YOU LOST! "But"..... but nothing you Lost so move on.
You seem confused. Unless you're a billionaire, you lost too.
I can live with that if it's so but my point remains, you Lost buy cannot accept it. You LOST, I got whatever it results in & accept it as is a democratic decision.
Nothing will change your warped viewpoint that democracy only works if your vote results in a win. Loser.
Not confused, seems obvious to me. "
So you were more concerned with voting in the same way as the majority of people who voted on the day of the referendum, than you are concerned about the impact of brexit on British people, British businesses and the economy?
If that was the case, imagine if everyone like you had voted the other way. You would have the same bizarre sense of 'winning', and we wouldn't have had the brexit clusterfuck. |
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You don't know me or my thoughts & obviously feel pretty clever & want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
I repeat you LOST, you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
Happy New Year loser. |
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"You don't know me or my thoughts & obviously feel pretty clever & want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
I repeat you LOST, you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
Happy New Year loser. "
So what happens now, are we allowed to discuss the impacts of brexit or not?
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"You don't know me or my thoughts & obviously feel pretty clever & want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
I repeat you LOST, you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
Happy New Year loser. "
You seem very angry for a winner
If something has gone wrong and it's causing a problem I usually try to find a way to fix it. What do you do? |
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"You don't know me or my thoughts"
I thought it might be good to address each of your points, as you seem cross, made some assumptions and accusations.
I don't know you, but I know your thoughts on brexit, as you've shared them here.
"
& obviously feel pretty clever
"
Nope, you don't have to be clever to read about and understand the impacts of brexit.
"
& want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
"
Reasons for what? Not sure what you mean.
"
I repeat you LOST,
"
Correct, we all lost.
"
you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
"
I have accepted that we all lost, see above.
"
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
"
Nope, brexit has happened, we've all lost.
"
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
"
What is "the truth" you mentioned here?
"
Happy New Year loser. "
Happy new year to you too fellow loser.
Final question, what does any of this have to do with the cost of brexit to the UK as per the OP? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You don't know me or my thoughts & obviously feel pretty clever & want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
I repeat you LOST, you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
Happy New Year loser. "
user name doesn't check out |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"You don't know me or my thoughts
I thought it might be good to address each of your points, as you seem cross, made some assumptions and accusations.
I don't know you, but I know your thoughts on brexit, as you've shared them here.
& obviously feel pretty clever
Nope, you don't have to be clever to read about and understand the impacts of brexit.
& want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
Reasons for what? Not sure what you mean.
I repeat you LOST,
Correct, we all lost.
you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
I have accepted that we all lost, see above.
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
Nope, brexit has happened, we've all lost.
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
What is "the truth" you mentioned here?
Happy New Year loser.
Happy new year to you too fellow loser.
Final question, what does any of this have to do with the cost of brexit to the UK as per the OP?"
nicely put.
An analogy of the above poster.
That new house I bought is falling down but I’m not going to try and fix it I’m just going to sit here and tell everyone that’s my house and btw did I tell you I bought it. Yes, but it’s falling down mate.. I don’t care I bought so there!
None so blind as those with sight and yet cannot see!
Signed … a big loser ..Me |
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"You don't know me or my thoughts
I thought it might be good to address each of your points, as you seem cross, made some assumptions and accusations.
I don't know you, but I know your thoughts on brexit, as you've shared them here.
& obviously feel pretty clever
Nope, you don't have to be clever to read about and understand the impacts of brexit.
& want to just keep repeating reasons you believe are valid.
Reasons for what? Not sure what you mean.
I repeat you LOST,
Correct, we all lost.
you are truly undemocratic in not accepting that.
I have accepted that we all lost, see above.
I,ll go now so on this occasion you win or at least you think you have. LOSER.
Nope, brexit has happened, we've all lost.
GOING BECAUSE AFTER 6YRS YOU ARE STILL ON THE LOSING SIDE BUT STILL BLEATING SO UNLIKELY THE TRUTH WILL SHUT YOU UP.
What is "the truth" you mentioned here?
Happy New Year loser.
Happy new year to you too fellow loser.
Final question, what does any of this have to do with the cost of brexit to the UK as per the OP?
nicely put.
An analogy of the above poster.
That new house I bought is falling down but I’m not going to try and fix it I’m just going to sit here and tell everyone that’s my house and btw did I tell you I bought it. Yes, but it’s falling down mate.. I don’t care I bought so there!
None so blind as those with sight and yet cannot see!
Signed … a big loser ..Me "
Then getting angry at people who didn't want the house because we all knew it would fall down as soon as it was purchased. |
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Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Quite honestly, this kind of article and/or post is as pointless as discussing whether or not the Boer War was a good thing.
It's HISTORY, nothing can change it!
As to ANYTHING returning to how it was, the answer is a resounding NO..."
The problem with statements like this is that it wasn’t like you were told or forecasted that this was going on to happen…. But you were told project fear, project fear, project fear!
The only vote in history where people did deliberately vote to make themselves poorer.. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal"
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost? |
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"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?"
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up |
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"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal"
We do know though, brexit is turning out pretty much exactly as we knew it would.
I'd argue that those who planned it and then handled it, did it exactly as they wanted to, and it achieved most of their aims. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up"
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start? |
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"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?"
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up"
I think May was trying to limit the obvious damage coming by keeping us in the customs union. Red line for the right wing free market despots so she was slaughtered . |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you"
It was all renegotiated, apparently, so what should we have got out of it that we didn't? |
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"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you
It was all renegotiated, apparently, so what should we have got out of it that we didn't?"
No it wasn't all renegotiated was it? They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make. So they never went back to renegotiate the start, which should never have been allowed to happen in the first place |
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"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you
It was all renegotiated, apparently, so what should we have got out of it that we didn't?
No it wasn't all renegotiated was it? They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make. So they never went back to renegotiate the start, which should never have been allowed to happen in the first place"
It's almost as if "we hold all the cards" - Gove, did in fact turn out to be utter bollocks.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you
It was all renegotiated, apparently, so what should we have got out of it that we didn't?
No it wasn't all renegotiated was it? They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make. So they never went back to renegotiate the start, which should never have been allowed to happen in the first place"
that's on Boris tho isn't it? He could have ... But didn't. |
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"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you
It was all renegotiated, apparently, so what should we have got out of it that we didn't?
No it wasn't all renegotiated was it? They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make. So they never went back to renegotiate the start, which should never have been allowed to happen in the first placethat's on Boris tho isn't it? He could have ... But didn't. "
No he couldn't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Maybe Brexit was just handled very badly by the government, maybe it should have been the right thing to do, we'll never know.
1 lesson to be learned is don't put a staunch remainer in the seat of power when negotiating a breakaway deal
Like Boris Johnson and Lord Frost?
I was thinking May, by the time Barmey Boris had got to it things where already fcuked up
It was "renegotiated" and there were already all sorts of "red lines" in place driven by the hard Brexit side of the party. We have the hard Brexit that was demanded by them.
What would a Brexit supporting leader have done differently if there at the start?
To start with you don't sign off what you will give to them before negotiating what they will give to you
It was all renegotiated, apparently, so what should we have got out of it that we didn't?
No it wasn't all renegotiated was it? They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make. So they never went back to renegotiate the start, which should never have been allowed to happen in the first placethat's on Boris tho isn't it? He could have ... But didn't.
No he couldn't"
the divorce payment was part of the withdrawal agreement. Why couldn't he have renegotiated? I don't think anything had been signed that took it off the table. |
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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make"
Instead of leaving before the end of the "contract" and negotiating a payment settlement (the demonised "divorce bill" which had already cost May her job), Boris simply said "We're leaving tomorrow but no early settlement necessary 'cos we'll carry on paying in - and trading as normal - until 31 December 2020. We'll sort everything out afterwards" We're still sorting... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make"
Instead of leaving before the end of the "contract" and negotiating a payment settlement (the demonised "divorce bill" which had already cost May her job), Boris simply said "We're leaving tomorrow but no early settlement necessary 'cos we'll carry on paying in - and trading as normal - until 31 December 2020. We'll sort everything out afterwards" We're still sorting..."
not convinced that is true. The terms are part of the withdrawal agreement. |
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"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
"
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat "
Brexit has been a disaster, the tories have completely fucked it up |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
""They never reopened the payment settlement UK had to make"
Instead of leaving before the end of the "contract" and negotiating a payment settlement (the demonised "divorce bill" which had already cost May her job), Boris simply said "We're leaving tomorrow but no early settlement necessary 'cos we'll carry on paying in - and trading as normal - until 31 December 2020. We'll sort everything out afterwards" We're still sorting...not convinced that is true. The terms are part of the withdrawal agreement. "
The withdrawal agreement wasn't signed. That was what the "renegotiation" was about. It's why May was defenestrated. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat "
Constructive.
So, I assume, that everything has gone to the Brexit "plan" then.
That's an interesting goal to have aimed for. |
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"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat
Brexit has been a disaster, the tories have completely fucked it up "
In fairness, even the worst version of Brexit would be a shit sandwich. So as much as they did fuck it up. (Shrug emoji). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat
Brexit has been a disaster, the tories have completely fucked it up
In fairness, even the worst version of Brexit would be a shit sandwich. So as much as they did fuck it up. (Shrug emoji)."
True, but they supposedly had the best chance (if there was one) of making it work or at least making it less shit. They had Mr ‘get Brexit done’ Boris at the helm, 80 seat majority, a cabinet full of brexiteers and they still fucked it up |
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"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat
Brexit has been a disaster, the tories have completely fucked it up
In fairness, even the worst version of Brexit would be a shit sandwich. So as much as they did fuck it up. (Shrug emoji).
True, but they supposedly had the best chance (if there was one) of making it work or at least making it less shit. They had Mr ‘get Brexit done’ Boris at the helm, 80 seat majority, a cabinet full of brexiteers and they still fucked it up"
True. Even their Minister for BO didn't find any benefits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is difficult to see why Brexit would have any long term detrimental impact on the UK economy . Any short term additional costs must be balanced against long term gains. Only a fool would assess the impact of a long term project over a two year period . The summary below copied from the website of a highly prestigious organisation explain everything . This good times are about to roll .
The pattern that emerges from all of this is of supposed experts abandoning all pretence at objectivity and engaging instead in pure propaganda, using misleading data or contentious modelling techniques to establish dubious ‘facts’ and making lurid claims over and over again in the hope that people will believe them.
We should expect this continue, for two reasons. First, the new UK government shows little or no sign of pushing back against such claims – unsurprising given that it has a distinct Remainer bent. Second, the UK economy is heading for a recession, made worse by excessive fiscal and monetary tightening. This recession will be a glorious opportunity for Remainers to blame Brexit for the unfortunate consequences it will bring with it such as rising unemployment and falling asset prices. The fact that recessions will also be occurring elsewhere, with similar unpleasant consequences, will be ignored.
The endgame for Remainers is clear. To discredit Brexit sufficiently in the eyes of the public that a process of gradual rejoining of the EU can be safely started. How this is achieved is apparently immaterial. It appears not to matter to the likes of Carney and others that they are dragging the already tattered reputation of the economics profession still further through the mud to achieve their political goals, reducing the profession to little more than a rabble of propagandists for hire.
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat
Brexit has been a disaster, the tories have completely fucked it up
In fairness, even the worst version of Brexit would be a shit sandwich. So as much as they did fuck it up. (Shrug emoji).
True, but they supposedly had the best chance (if there was one) of making it work or at least making it less shit. They had Mr ‘get Brexit done’ Boris at the helm, 80 seat majority, a cabinet full of brexiteers and they still fucked it up
True. Even their Minister for BO didn't find any benefits."
Ah yes, I forgot about him, he even asked Sun readers for help, all to no avail |
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"
Sadly the bitter re moaners are still no over their defeat "
It's the future of our country and we don't want it to be a mess. Any other point of view right now is insanity. However, I didn't create this mess - you did. Tell us where this utopia that you won is so that we can all share it. |
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