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So the Nurses are striking and the tories are shitting themselves.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
It's politically very difficult to figure out.
What's to gain from picking a fight with nurses who nobody believes are well paid or have great working conditions or are in some way lazy?
They must, genuinely, think there's a good reason. It will be like the school meals thing. They will be dragged to it kicking and screaming and obviously get no credit for it when they could have avoided it completely.
It's a mystery. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Feels like the Tories are trying to rerun Thatcher v the unions. They don't seem interested in sorting anything out. They seem far more interested in trying to stoke public anger in order to turn the public against the unions.
Hopefully they'll find it harder to paint nurses as enemies of the people than they expect. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
Jobs such as nurses are often looked upon as vocational and needing a certain disposition that ranks highly in the doing it for the good of, which then assumes they are doing a job not for the money but for the love of it.
I support paying them more, also pay police officers, firefighters and paramedics more.
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Jobs such as nurses are often looked upon as vocational and needing a certain disposition that ranks highly in the doing it for the good of, which then assumes they are doing a job not for the money but for the love of it.
I support paying them more, also pay police officers, firefighters and paramedics more.
"
I'm with you just give them an inflation pay rise 19% over two years is costly but fair.
Pension and benefits got it why should workers be penalised...
If necessary add the 1.5% back on to NI |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
The NHS lost 34,000 nurses in the past year.
The NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
Nobody wants to work there. This Govt took away the training/study bursary from nurses saddling them with debt.
There is clearly a correlation between increased waiting times and lack of staff.
The Tories chose to ignore recommendations from Operation Cygnus so the NHS was not adequately prepared for the Covid (or any) pandemic.
The sheer dedication of the doctors and nurses through the darkest days of the pandemic, with a complete lack of suitable safety equipment yet still working 80+ hour shifts at high risk to themselves shows the kind of people they are. They are striking for a good reason and it isn’t just about pay!
This is pure ideology on the part of many in the Tory party to turn the public against the NHS and make them amenable to full privatisation. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
If it were only nurses and some critical front line medical staff then I'd be much more in support.
Will any raise apply to all NHS paygrades including admin and auxiliary staff ?
A good start would be a better package for nurses, free parking, free public transport, better tax allowances and the same triple lock pay increase ... But not for all NHS employees |
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This is all about the Tory party and Rishi selling himself out to the right wing of it to maintain his leadership
He has given positions to people who are even less competent than those Boris chose to surround himself just so he can cling on like the nasty little turd he is. I mean ffs I was actually thinking that Priti vacant would actually be a better Home Secretary than Barking Braverman which is depressing - the choice between a strident bullying shit over an ideologically fascistic and very stupid bullying shit is hardly a good one |
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The easiest way to solve nurses pay is to lower the pension contributions from the NHS. Most private companies an employee would pay around 5% and the employer pays 4%. Some are better some are worse. The NHS now pays 20.68% into the pension. Halve that so nurses get an extra 10% but a lower pension like most of us. But then they would go on strike because they would get massive pensions. That is the problem with most public sector jobs. The pension is too rich. |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
I think they're not sorting it out either because.
1. They're too incompetent to.
2. They don't give a fuck.
3. It's part of the plan to run down the NHS and ultimately sell off parts of it. |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
Because they place money above people. |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
. Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's not the pay specifically that's the real prpblem, it's the horrible job due to long hours, appalling support and oversight, and rediculous understaffing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal. My local hospital trust have already bought the IT infrastructure for 3 hospitals from an American company at the cost of 995 million pounds.. Just waiting to snap it up when they get the nod from the government
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. . Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay. "
£34,000 is a pathetically low salary for the job they do, we fund it by increasing tax on high earners |
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"The NHS lost 34,000 nurses in the past year.
The NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
Nobody wants to work there. This Govt took away the training/study bursary from nurses saddling them with debt.
No.. it was Tony f’in Blair who made it necessary for nurses to attain a degree back in 09. Is it any wonder new nurses are detected by the 50k debt.. and how many less academic candidates have been locked out of the profession??
There is clearly a correlation between increased waiting times and lack of staff.
The Tories chose to ignore recommendations from Operation Cygnus so the NHS was not adequately prepared for the Covid (or any) pandemic.
The sheer dedication of the doctors and nurses through the darkest days of the pandemic, with a complete lack of suitable safety equipment yet still working 80+ hour shifts at high risk to themselves shows the kind of people they are. They are striking for a good reason and it isn’t just about pay!
This is pure ideology on the part of many in the Tory party to turn the public against the NHS and make them amenable to full privatisation."
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"The NHS lost 34,000 nurses in the past year.
The NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
Nobody wants to work there. This Govt took away the training/study bursary from nurses saddling them with debt.
No.. it was Tony f’in Blair who made it necessary for nurses to attain a degree back in 09. Is it any wonder new nurses are detected by the 50k debt.. and how many less academic candidates have been locked out of the profession??
There is clearly a correlation between increased waiting times and lack of staff.
The Tories chose to ignore recommendations from Operation Cygnus so the NHS was not adequately prepared for the Covid (or any) pandemic.
The sheer dedication of the doctors and nurses through the darkest days of the pandemic, with a complete lack of suitable safety equipment yet still working 80+ hour shifts at high risk to themselves shows the kind of people they are. They are striking for a good reason and it isn’t just about pay!
This is pure ideology on the part of many in the Tory party to turn the public against the NHS and make them amenable to full privatisation."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The easiest way to solve nurses pay is to lower the pension contributions from the NHS. Most private companies an employee would pay around 5% and the employer pays 4%. Some are better some are worse. The NHS now pays 20.68% into the pension. Halve that so nurses get an extra 10% but a lower pension like most of us. But then they would go on strike because they would get massive pensions. That is the problem with most public sector jobs. The pension is too rich."
Private nurses get far higher salaries than those working for the NHS |
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"Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay. "
Newly qualified nurses make around £27k. Taking your average, that means half of all nurses make less than £34k.
If they were paid more and treated better - and, you know, felt like the government and their employer valued them - they may stick around longer. Which would save the NHS a good chunk of change.
Finding the money is not an issue at all. Every one in government opposing the pay increase knows that full well. |
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"The easiest way to solve nurses pay is to lower the pension contributions from the NHS. Most private companies an employee would pay around 5% and the employer pays 4%. Some are better some are worse. The NHS now pays 20.68% into the pension. Halve that so nurses get an extra 10% but a lower pension like most of us. But then they would go on strike because they would get massive pensions. That is the problem with most public sector jobs. The pension is too rich.
Private nurses get far higher salaries than those working for the NHS "
Agree in salary terms but I bet their pension is not as good. Give all public sector workers the same pension scheme as private workers and salary can then be increased. |
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"If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal."
Oh great. Now we have one person claiming that the NHS is chronically under-funded deliberately to make it weak so it can be privatised, and we have another person claiming that the Tories are over-funding the NHS to make it look good so it can be privatised. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal.
Oh great. Now we have one person claiming that the NHS is chronically under-funded deliberately to make it weak so it can be privatised, and we have another person claiming that the Tories are over-funding the NHS to make it look good so it can be privatised."
They're deliberately trying to underfunded and crash it so as they the tories can then let a private company step in to save the day.. And sure as they'll have shares in said company
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"If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal."
"Oh great. Now we have one person claiming that the NHS is chronically under-funded deliberately to make it weak so it can be privatised, and we have another person claiming that the Tories are over-funding the NHS to make it look good so it can be privatised."
"They're deliberately trying to underfunded and crash it so as they the tories can then let a private company step in to save the day.. And sure as they'll have shares in said company
"
Ah! I now see that I misread your original post. Thanks for pulling me up on it. |
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Also, the absolute bollocks that the government is pushing about it costing every household in England £1000 is basically a lie and even if you give the government the benefit of the doubt the figure still does not get much past £500 which the government would also recoup part of as tax so it’s just another Tory lie  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Jobs such as nurses are often looked upon as vocational and needing a certain disposition that ranks highly in the doing it for the good of, which then assumes they are doing a job not for the money but for the love of it.
I support paying them more, also pay police officers, firefighters and paramedics more.
"
 |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The easiest way to solve nurses pay is to lower the pension contributions from the NHS. Most private companies an employee would pay around 5% and the employer pays 4%. Some are better some are worse. The NHS now pays 20.68% into the pension. Halve that so nurses get an extra 10% but a lower pension like most of us. But then they would go on strike because they would get massive pensions. That is the problem with most public sector jobs. The pension is too rich."
Nurses used to receive a final salary pension scheme until 2008 when it was switched to an AVERAGE salary pension scheme.
Compulsory employee contributions depend on your salary and range from 5% to 14%.
Not really quite the freebie that you seem to believe that it is.
The pension is not "too rich". That sounds more like envy than objective reasoning. There was a time when the private sector was equally benevolent to their staff. Why should their poor treatment of their staff that be the benchmark?
Even with the pay rise being requested it would take nurses to the equivalent to what they were earning in 2011.
Even at average pay, which means an experienced nurse they are underpaid for someone operating at such a level of knowledge and skill and required training compared to the private sector. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal.
Oh great. Now we have one person claiming that the NHS is chronically under-funded deliberately to make it weak so it can be privatised, and we have another person claiming that the Tories are over-funding the NHS to make it look good so it can be privatised.
They're deliberately trying to underfunded and crash it so as they the tories can then let a private company step in to save the day.. And sure as they'll have shares in said company
"
It’s true you know, they want to destroy the NHS with their “reforms”, they’ve tried to destroy the NHS since its inception, they’ve had over 70 years of creating narratives to undermine an essentially good idea.
In 12 years they have done more damage to the social fabric of this country since world war 2.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal.
Oh great. Now we have one person claiming that the NHS is chronically under-funded deliberately to make it weak so it can be privatised, and we have another person claiming that the Tories are over-funding the NHS to make it look good so it can be privatised."
I think you either made a typo or are confused (or I missed a post you are referring to).
Underfunding = poor pay and conditions, loss of staff, poor performance = can privatise as failing and pretend that is solution.
Overfund = better recruitment and retention, better performance = cannot privatise as public won’t allow it. The Tories will NOT overfund. |
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"If the Tories give the pay rise then potentially more people join the many positions that need filling, but then the Nhs starts to work better and succeed.. Its then impossible fir the corrupt Gov to sell it off for privatisation which is there end goal."
"Oh great. Now we have one person claiming that the NHS is chronically under-funded deliberately to make it weak so it can be privatised, and we have another person claiming that the Tories are over-funding the NHS to make it look good so it can be privatised."
"I think you either made a typo or are confused (or I missed a post you are referring to).
Underfunding = poor pay and conditions, loss of staff, poor performance = can privatise as failing and pretend that is solution.
Overfund = better recruitment and retention, better performance = cannot privatise as public won’t allow it. The Tories will NOT overfund. "
I was confused, I misread the post.
All sorted now. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years. |
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"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years."
. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000 |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days."
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it. |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it."
. Maybe you need to start reading a few newspapers . The article referred to the nurses by name , showed photographs of them and their payslips. Log on to tik tok and check for yourself.
Neither the agency concerned. , the nurses themselves or the agency have disputed any of the facts in the article. It covered two pages . It sounds like the truth hurts on occasions. |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it."
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years.. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000 "
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So let’s get this straight...
Pat you support the plans of ThickLizzie and Kamikwazi to deliver huge tax cuts (unfunded) that crashed the markets, presumably because you personally would benefit. You also defend the corrupt actions of Tory MPs, Ministers and Peers along with their donors, cronies, friends and family because, presumably, you see them as being entrepreneurial.
Yet some nurses are to blame when they are provided with an opportunity to make decent money as locums/agency workers rather than need to buy from foodbanks and suffer below inflation pay rises for over a decade? Aren’t they using their skills and being entrepreneurial to better themselves? Or are only a certain type of person allowed to do that?
The mark up on agency workers is pretty chunky. The NHS is being milked. If we paid a decent salary and reinstated the training bursary, it would reverse the staff retention and recruitment issues and then reduce the increasing reliance on agency staff...saving the NHS a fortune.
But then you know that! |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days."
"No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it."
"Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema"
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days". |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it. Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema"
Our postman put a photo of him beside a superyacht in Portsmouth on Instagram .. Fecker doesnt need a payrise. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days"."
Pat knows that most people cannot be bothered doing follow on research so thinks he can post any old rubbish as fact. Your pedantry was not something he had considered |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".
Pat knows that most people cannot be bothered doing follow on research so thinks he can post any old rubbish as fact. Your pedantry was not something he had considered "
. I think you will most people do reviews. The article concerned was probably read by at least a million viewers. One poster actually held up his payslip as proof. As far as I aware none of the posters have complained to any of press regulatory organisations. Sometimes the truth hurts. Lots of people are a lot worse off than NHS . Care workers get a lot less . Maybe some posters on here need to get out into the real world and see what actually happens in the NHS and social services . That gives you a true reflection of what is actually happening. The voice of the metropolitan is only that of a small minority and not a true reflection of the society in which we live.
Unless my memory is failing me I voted Connservstive in all recent elections . Not any different to the majority who returned the government to power with any 80 seat majority.
The Liberal and intolerant elite are only a small but vocal minority. . |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".
Pat knows that most people cannot be bothered doing follow on research so thinks he can post any old rubbish as fact. Your pedantry was not something he had considered . I think you will most people do reviews. The article concerned was probably read by at least a million viewers. One poster actually held up his payslip as proof. As far as I aware none of the posters have complained to any of press regulatory organisations. Sometimes the truth hurts. Lots of people are a lot worse off than NHS . Care workers get a lot less . Maybe some posters on here need to get out into the real world and see what actually happens in the NHS and social services . That gives you a true reflection of what is actually happening. The voice of the metropolitan is only that of a small minority and not a true reflection of the society in which we live.
Unless my memory is failing me I voted Connservstive in all recent elections . Not any different to the majority who returned the government to power with any 80 seat majority.
The Liberal and intolerant elite are only a small but vocal minority. ."
You've already been told, Pat, that it was a doctor, not a nurse in this clip.
It also indicates a serious problem if there is such a staffing crisis that hospitals are so desperate to cover positions that they are forced to pay such high rates at points of crisis.
This proves exactly the opposite of what you think it does.
Care workers do a get paid a lot less. The profession is also understaffed and in crisis. What are the Government doing to resolve that? It's not even in the news. Is that because they are not strongly unionised and there is little collective bargaining over pay and conditions so that they are easier to exploit?
Your position seems to be that people should just be happy with whatever their given and not complain. Is that the case? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
I know NHS nurses that often work their days off in private hospitals.
They can get anything from £40 to £100 an hour doing this work.
Whilst I don't know any Doctors, nurses tell me that they work locum shifts for other health trusts for £150 to £250 per hour.
One trust has reported to have paid £5200 for a single Doctor's shift.
External agencies are cleaning up but I don't blame the nurses and doctors for doing what they do. |
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"One poster actually held up his payslip as proof."
You claimed that he was a nurse, and that was untrue. You also claimed that he earned that much doing "a relatively small number of days", and that was also untrue.
The £17,000 in a month but might be true, but the images I can find are all too blurry to make out what it actually says.
So, the 'proof' that you keep pointing to doesn't prove what you said it does.
I was going to add that this is a shame, because the falsehoods detract from your otherwise valid point, but re-reading your posts I can't work out what point you are trying to make. |
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"I know NHS nurses that often work their days off in private hospitals.
They can get anything from £40 to £100 an hour doing this work.
Whilst I don't know any Doctors, nurses tell me that they work locum shifts for other health trusts for £150 to £250 per hour.
One trust has reported to have paid £5200 for a single Doctor's shift.
External agencies are cleaning up but I don't blame the nurses and doctors for doing what they do. "
You've got the numbers the wrong way round. Those figures are what the NHS pays the agencies for the staff. That's not what the staff receive from the agencies.
But I agree with your point, agencies are making excessive profits, and it's hard to blame the doctors and nurses for wanting to earn more money. |
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"One poster actually held up his payslip as proof.
You claimed that he was a nurse, and that was untrue. You also claimed that he earned that much doing "a relatively small number of days", and that was also untrue.
The £17,000 in a month but might be true, but the images I can find are all too blurry to make out what it actually says.
So, the 'proof' that you keep pointing to doesn't prove what you said it does.
I was going to add that this is a shame, because the falsehoods detract from your otherwise valid point, but re-reading your posts I can't work out what point you are trying to make."
.Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood , it was on display in black and white and non of those in the article have made any publicised complaints to the press. It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about. |
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"One poster actually held up his payslip as proof.
You claimed that he was a nurse, and that was untrue. You also claimed that he earned that much doing "a relatively small number of days", and that was also untrue.
The £17,000 in a month but might be true, but the images I can find are all too blurry to make out what it actually says.
So, the 'proof' that you keep pointing to doesn't prove what you said it does.
I was going to add that this is a shame, because the falsehoods detract from your otherwise valid point, but re-reading your posts I can't work out what point you are trying to make..Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood , it was on display in black and white and non of those in the article have made any publicised complaints to the press. It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about. "
Should all nurses be shafted because one alleged incident of someone showing a possible pay slip from an unspecified time frame with more money than see someone on the internet is happy with? |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. . Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay.
£34,000 is a pathetically low salary for the job they do, we fund it by increasing tax on high earners "
Just out of curiosity, what would you increase nurses starting pay and what do you define a high earner.
For me, a huge problem is bed blocking.
The ladies, predominately ladies, who work as carers, helping a generally elderly patient be discharged from a hospital bed need to have not just their pay increased but their terms and conditions improved.
Until social care is sorted the NHS will always have issues.
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"Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood ..."
But no one here is saying that the doctor was spouting falsehoods. What we are saying is that you are spouting falsehoods.
You said that the person was a nurse, and that was untrue. You said that the person did less than normal hours, and that was untrue.
So what you said ... was a falsehood.
"It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about. "
He does seem to be a very unpleasant person. |
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"Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood ...
But no one here is saying that the doctor was spouting falsehoods. What we are saying is that you are spouting falsehoods.
You said that the person was a nurse, and that was untrue. You said that the person did less than normal hours, and that was untrue.
So what you said ... was a falsehood.
It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about.
He does seem to be a very unpleasant person."
. Regardless of how you wish to present it and whether they were a Doctor or Nurse is probably completely irrelevant to the main point . The fact is that a medical professional was prepared to openly boast on social media of earnings of £17320 should be self explanatory to mostrationsl people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood ...
But no one here is saying that the doctor was spouting falsehoods. What we are saying is that you are spouting falsehoods.
You said that the person was a nurse, and that was untrue. You said that the person did less than normal hours, and that was untrue.
So what you said ... was a falsehood.
It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about.
He does seem to be a very unpleasant person.. Regardless of how you wish to present it and whether they were a Doctor or Nurse is probably completely irrelevant to the main point . The fact is that a medical professional was prepared to openly boast on social media of earnings of £17320 should be self explanatory to mostrationsl people. "
tbf it was a medical student showing someine else's earnings. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days"."
the tiktoker said 216 hours. That's 18 12 hour shifts.
It's also not clear if the locum doctor was an F1 or vastly more experienced. Or what locum work he was doing. |
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"Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood ...
But no one here is saying that the doctor was spouting falsehoods. What we are saying is that you are spouting falsehoods.
You said that the person was a nurse, and that was untrue. You said that the person did less than normal hours, and that was untrue.
So what you said ... was a falsehood.
It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about.
He does seem to be a very unpleasant person.. Regardless of how you wish to present it and whether they were a Doctor or Nurse is probably completely irrelevant to the main point . The fact is that a medical professional was prepared to openly boast on social media of earnings of £17320 should be self explanatory to mostrationsl people. "
It's amazing the length Conservatives voters will go to justify fucking over ordinary British people.
It's pretty impressive. |
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"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years.. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So let’s get this straight...
Pat you support the plans of ThickLizzie and Kamikwazi to deliver huge tax cuts (unfunded) that crashed the markets, presumably because you personally would benefit. You also defend the corrupt actions of Tory MPs, Ministers and Peers along with their donors, cronies, friends and family because, presumably, you see them as being entrepreneurial.
Yet some nurses are to blame when they are provided with an opportunity to make decent money as locums/agency workers rather than need to buy from foodbanks and suffer below inflation pay rises for over a decade? Aren’t they using their skills and being entrepreneurial to better themselves? Or are only a certain type of person allowed to do that?
The mark up on agency workers is pretty chunky. The NHS is being milked. If we paid a decent salary and reinstated the training bursary, it would reverse the staff retention and recruitment issues and then reduce the increasing reliance on agency staff...saving the NHS a fortune.
But then you know that! "
Maybe time for a reality check for you . Describing someone as thick is hardly a pleasant attribute. Maybe do dome research and you will find that Liz Truss went to Oxford and was employed as a chief economic officer by Shell who have a rigorous recruitment process .
I cannot think of a single post where I have ever defended the actions of anyone involved in what you refer to as corruption . Why would anyone do that. I prefer to take a more objective view of the government finances. Anyone involved in corruption usually ends up in prison.
The NHS needs a compete overhaul . We probably need to copy the system used in France or Germany and start charging for certain services. Doctors pay is a lot less in France . The problem in the NHS is not a lack of funding. We need to analyse who is using it and why . |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Whether they were a Doctor or a Nurse they were still showing their payslip and boasting about it on social media. It is hardly a falsehood ...
But no one here is saying that the doctor was spouting falsehoods. What we are saying is that you are spouting falsehoods.
You said that the person was a nurse, and that was untrue. You said that the person did less than normal hours, and that was untrue.
So what you said ... was a falsehood.
It simply looks that they enjoy boasting about their earnings of which many can only dream about.
He does seem to be a very unpleasant person.. Regardless of how you wish to present it and whether they were a Doctor or Nurse is probably completely irrelevant to the main point . The fact is that a medical professional was prepared to openly boast on social media of earnings of £17320 should be self explanatory to mostrationsl people. "
The fact that it was not a nurse is extremely relevant to a discussion about nursing strikes 
If trusts are so desperate to cover that they have to pay locum agencies then the system is understaffed and that is due to; pay, conditions and training. All the things that nurses are striking about... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years.. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So let’s get this straight...
Pat you support the plans of ThickLizzie and Kamikwazi to deliver huge tax cuts (unfunded) that crashed the markets, presumably because you personally would benefit. You also defend the corrupt actions of Tory MPs, Ministers and Peers along with their donors, cronies, friends and family because, presumably, you see them as being entrepreneurial.
Yet some nurses are to blame when they are provided with an opportunity to make decent money as locums/agency workers rather than need to buy from foodbanks and suffer below inflation pay rises for over a decade? Aren’t they using their skills and being entrepreneurial to better themselves? Or are only a certain type of person allowed to do that?
The mark up on agency workers is pretty chunky. The NHS is being milked. If we paid a decent salary and reinstated the training bursary, it would reverse the staff retention and recruitment issues and then reduce the increasing reliance on agency staff...saving the NHS a fortune.
But then you know that! Maybe time for a reality check for you . Describing someone as thick is hardly a pleasant attribute. Maybe do dome research and you will find that Liz Truss went to Oxford and was employed as a chief economic officer by Shell who have a rigorous recruitment process .
I cannot think of a single post where I have ever defended the actions of anyone involved in what you refer to as corruption . Why would anyone do that. I prefer to take a more objective view of the government finances. Anyone involved in corruption usually ends up in prison.
The NHS needs a compete overhaul . We probably need to copy the system used in France or Germany and start charging for certain services. Doctors pay is a lot less in France . The problem in the NHS is not a lack of funding. We need to analyse who is using it and why . "
wasn't she a trainee accountant at shell? |
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"Regardless of how you wish to present it and whether they were a Doctor or Nurse is probably completely irrelevant to the main point ."
Then why did you originally post the detail that it was a nurse who worked low hours, if it was not relevant to the main point?
Those details have completely derailed whatever it was that you were trying to say, as no one knows what your main point was.
"The fact is that a medical professional was prepared to openly boast on social media of earnings of £17320 should be self explanatory to mostrationsl people. "
It explains that youngsters nowadays are just as unpleasant as they were when I was one, but now they have access to a publishing medium to let everyone know how obnoxious they are.
Is that the point that you were trying to make? |
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"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years.. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So let’s get this straight...
Pat you support the plans of ThickLizzie and Kamikwazi to deliver huge tax cuts (unfunded) that crashed the markets, presumably because you personally would benefit. You also defend the corrupt actions of Tory MPs, Ministers and Peers along with their donors, cronies, friends and family because, presumably, you see them as being entrepreneurial.
Yet some nurses are to blame when they are provided with an opportunity to make decent money as locums/agency workers rather than need to buy from foodbanks and suffer below inflation pay rises for over a decade? Aren’t they using their skills and being entrepreneurial to better themselves? Or are only a certain type of person allowed to do that?
The mark up on agency workers is pretty chunky. The NHS is being milked. If we paid a decent salary and reinstated the training bursary, it would reverse the staff retention and recruitment issues and then reduce the increasing reliance on agency staff...saving the NHS a fortune.
But then you know that! Maybe time for a reality check for you . Describing someone as thick is hardly a pleasant attribute. Maybe do dome research and you will find that Liz Truss went to Oxford and was employed as a chief economic officer by Shell who have a rigorous recruitment process .
I cannot think of a single post where I have ever defended the actions of anyone involved in what you refer to as corruption . Why would anyone do that. I prefer to take a more objective view of the government finances. Anyone involved in corruption usually ends up in prison.
The NHS needs a compete overhaul . We probably need to copy the system used in France or Germany and start charging for certain services. Doctors pay is a lot less in France . The problem in the NHS is not a lack of funding. We need to analyse who is using it and why . "
If Truss was intelligent, what was the cause of her short lived disastrous premiership? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years.. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So let’s get this straight...
Pat you support the plans of ThickLizzie and Kamikwazi to deliver huge tax cuts (unfunded) that crashed the markets, presumably because you personally would benefit. You also defend the corrupt actions of Tory MPs, Ministers and Peers along with their donors, cronies, friends and family because, presumably, you see them as being entrepreneurial.
Yet some nurses are to blame when they are provided with an opportunity to make decent money as locums/agency workers rather than need to buy from foodbanks and suffer below inflation pay rises for over a decade? Aren’t they using their skills and being entrepreneurial to better themselves? Or are only a certain type of person allowed to do that?
The mark up on agency workers is pretty chunky. The NHS is being milked. If we paid a decent salary and reinstated the training bursary, it would reverse the staff retention and recruitment issues and then reduce the increasing reliance on agency staff...saving the NHS a fortune.
But then you know that! Maybe time for a reality check for you . Describing someone as thick is hardly a pleasant attribute. Maybe do dome research and you will find that Liz Truss went to Oxford and was employed as a chief economic officer by Shell who have a rigorous recruitment process .
I cannot think of a single post where I have ever defended the actions of anyone involved in what you refer to as corruption . Why would anyone do that. I prefer to take a more objective view of the government finances. Anyone involved in corruption usually ends up in prison.
The NHS needs a compete overhaul . We probably need to copy the system used in France or Germany and start charging for certain services. Doctors pay is a lot less in France . The problem in the NHS is not a lack of funding. We need to analyse who is using it and why . "
Liz Truss, Wikipedia:
"From 1996 to 2000, Truss worked for Shell, during which time she qualified as a Chartered Management Accountant (ACMA) in 1999"
She graduated in 1996.
So, a long way from being "a chief economic officer".
Amusingly, Vince Cable was actually the Chief Economist at Shell between 1995 and 1997.
French and German doctors are paid more than those in the UK.
People in British Government involved in corruption do not usually end up in prison.
Some basic research would have told you all of this.
None of this has anything to do with nurses pay though. So, other than being wrong, why bring it up at all? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Another reason the Tories are happy to run down the NHS and don’t care about staff shortages and poor staff retention is there is money to be made. Lots of money for them and their mates.
Lord Ashcroft is the controlling party of Medacs. Medacs supplies locum doctors and temporary nurses. Its 2021 turnover was £161m.
Purely by coincidence Lord Ashcroft has donated millions to the Tory party over the years.. Maybe you need to write to all nurses and advise them not to work for these agencies. A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
I know other nurses who after completing their normal duties were then doing agency work at the weekend . In other cases nurses were flying over from Northern Ireland to do additional shifts via agencies.
Maybe things are not quite as bad as they seem. The average pay of a nurse is £340°0. Many people are a lot worse off than that. If there are two income s in the family they will have an annual income of at least. £ 60000
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So let’s get this straight...
Pat you support the plans of ThickLizzie and Kamikwazi to deliver huge tax cuts (unfunded) that crashed the markets, presumably because you personally would benefit. You also defend the corrupt actions of Tory MPs, Ministers and Peers along with their donors, cronies, friends and family because, presumably, you see them as being entrepreneurial.
Yet some nurses are to blame when they are provided with an opportunity to make decent money as locums/agency workers rather than need to buy from foodbanks and suffer below inflation pay rises for over a decade? Aren’t they using their skills and being entrepreneurial to better themselves? Or are only a certain type of person allowed to do that?
The mark up on agency workers is pretty chunky. The NHS is being milked. If we paid a decent salary and reinstated the training bursary, it would reverse the staff retention and recruitment issues and then reduce the increasing reliance on agency staff...saving the NHS a fortune.
But then you know that! Maybe time for a reality check for you . Describing someone as thick is hardly a pleasant attribute. Maybe do dome research and you will find that Liz Truss went to Oxford and was employed as a chief economic officer by Shell who have a rigorous recruitment process .
I cannot think of a single post where I have ever defended the actions of anyone involved in what you refer to as corruption . Why would anyone do that. I prefer to take a more objective view of the government finances. Anyone involved in corruption usually ends up in prison.
The NHS needs a compete overhaul . We probably need to copy the system used in France or Germany and start charging for certain services. Doctors pay is a lot less in France . The problem in the NHS is not a lack of funding. We need to analyse who is using it and why . "
Liz Truss is thick! There you go I have done it again. As I have said to you before YOU do some research and see what her fellow students said about her. You might be surprised to know which university I went to..Truss is thick!
Now back to your main point...what does some locum doctor(s) earning a shed load have to do with Nurses pay and conditions? What exactly are the nurses striking about? Do you actually know?
Nurses are underpaid for the job they do (hours worked, working conditions, exposure to risk/abuse, benefit to society). They have had below inflation rises for over a decade that actually results in a pay cut. They lost the bursary for training so are saddled with debt. And all to help the rest of us but they should be grateful?
Recruitment is now a serious problem with 133,000 vacancies in the NHS (nobody wants to work there).
Retention is a nightmare as the NHS lost 34,000 nurses in the last year alone.
Now I wonder if an understaffed, under-appreciated workforce with low morale has any impact on patient care and waiting lists?
The NHS is being fleeced by the private sector (and that includes agencies providing locum staff to plug the serious gaps in staffing levels due to points above). As per my earlier point, one of the main agencies is owned by Lord Ashcroft a Tory party donor. Why would he want the situation to change?
So again Pat...what point are you actually trying to make?
BTW you should be careful what they wish for when you say we should start paying for some NHS treatment. Your health insurance won’t cover pre-existing or hereditary conditions. However, I am curious...which things should we pay for? |
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"The original title of post says Tories are shitting themselves.
I very much doubt they are, don't think they give a toss about nurses or other folks who work hard."
And they know people vote for them time and time again regardless of how badly the fuck up, rip off British people etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
I think they're not sorting it out either because.
1. They're too incompetent to.
2. They don't give a fuck.
3. It's part of the plan to run down the NHS and ultimately sell off parts of it."
Spot on. Its going to happen sooner than many think it will. |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days"."
. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked. "
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies. |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies."
Personally, I believe unless carers who work in the community are given decent pay and conditions to recruit and retain, hospitals will remain constipated.
Fine taking patients in, difficult passing them back out.  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
Personally, I believe unless carers who work in the community are given decent pay and conditions to recruit and retain, hospitals will remain constipated.
Fine taking patients in, difficult passing them back out. "
Agreed. A coordinated health and social care system sounds like a good idea! Oh isn’t that why DoH became DHSC? They still haven’t sorted it.
Weird isn’t it that the people who do jobs that most greatly serve our society, the jobs with the highest risk to personal safety, with some of the most unpleasant activities etc etc are not as well respected or remunerated. When these public servants (for that is what they are, all looking after the rest of us and our families) dare ask for better pay and conditions, suddenly they are vilified. It is as if some people believe they should be Public Serfs! |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days."
"No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it."
"Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema"
"A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days"."
"It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service."
I'm well aware of such things, but that just affects the rate paid by the NHS to the agency concerned. The rate paid by the agency to the doctor/nurse will stay the same.
I can easily believe that the NHS have paid more than £17,000 per month to an agency for the services of a part-time nurse. It is not credible that the nurse would get even close to that much from the agency. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked. "
or you listen to the actual tictoc and he can tell you |
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The government are not caving-in because a wages feeding frenzy will fuel inflation which will lower living standards in the long run. Moreover, the only groups who strike are those with industrial leverage. If they get high pay increases, taxes have to go up leaving other workers even worse off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The government are not caving-in because a wages feeding frenzy will fuel inflation which will lower living standards in the long run. Moreover, the only groups who strike are those with industrial leverage. If they get high pay increases, taxes have to go up leaving other workers even worse off. "
V peculiar that we're seeing rampant inflation now when wages have been static (or even cut in real terms) for a long time. You know, since it's apparently wage rises that drive inflation... |
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"The government are not caving-in because a wages feeding frenzy will fuel inflation which will lower living standards in the long run. Moreover, the only groups who strike are those with industrial leverage. If they get high pay increases, taxes have to go up leaving other workers even worse off. "
I lolled hard at the implication the government give a fuck about living standards.
Excellent work. |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies."
50k debt for a career in science and technology or 50k debt for a minimum wage job mopping up stranger's bodily fluids?
Remove the tuition fees in return for a minimum 5 years NHS service and you would solve the staffing crisis within a year. You probably wouldn't even need to increase pay by very much as the lack of graduate debt would be a huge draw.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The government are not caving-in because a wages feeding frenzy will fuel inflation which will lower living standards in the long run. Moreover, the only groups who strike are those with industrial leverage. If they get high pay increases, taxes have to go up leaving other workers even worse off. "
Although in the case of the NHS, paying higher salaries will improve recruitment and retention thus reducing the huge cost to the NHS of contingent labour actually saving money and reducing the cost to the taxpayer long term. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"The government are not caving-in because a wages feeding frenzy will fuel inflation which will lower living standards in the long run. Moreover, the only groups who strike are those with industrial leverage. If they get high pay increases, taxes have to go up leaving other workers even worse off.
I lolled hard at the implication the government give a fuck about living standards.
Excellent work. "
Seconded. The bit that made me chuckle was the rubbish about pay increases fuelling inflation; that would only happen if they were greater than inflation, and nobody's going to get that in the public sector. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The government are not caving-in because a wages feeding frenzy will fuel inflation which will lower living standards in the long run. Moreover, the only groups who strike are those with industrial leverage. If they get high pay increases, taxes have to go up leaving other workers even worse off. "
What cost would be passed onto the consumer by NHS wages rising?
What NHS service would consumers pay more for in order to increase inflation? Are NHS medical cost included in any measure of UK inflation?
Is inflation being created by people wanting more "things" than is available or by the price of energy rising?
How will paying people less reduce the cost of energy? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Are wages that Low that both Nurses and Junior Doctors are talking of quitting, selling up and moving to both New Zealand and Australia for a better job?
is it that bad that they intend to leave family, friends and job? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Couple of thoughts
Pay the junior doctors nurses , auxiliaries and cleaners etc more money . Not the senior managers or directors as they are responsible for the chronic mismanagement.
Allow free education for all medical roles and tie it to a ten year contract working in the NHS . If they chose to leave during the ten years then a reducing balance amount has to be paid back. At the end of ten years free to go.
Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. Couple this with improving the terms of employment such as flexible working etc to make the role more attractive in the first place along with the higher pay.
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.
This is child level common sense so why is action so lacking from those senior managers who have very high wages for their ability and obscene tax payer funded pension pots. Some equal to ten times their annual salary at the point of leaving so £150k salary £1.5M pension contribution. ( not all do I agree, but I have read full NHS trust accounts to be able to say this is common)
I recently discovered the local hospital has contracted out their dialysis department to a company. I also know of other privatised services . The NHS is being sold off right now and voters are not being told.
Feel free to Google this claim. |
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"Couple of thoughts
Pay the junior doctors nurses , auxiliaries and cleaners etc more money . Not the senior managers or directors as they are responsible for the chronic mismanagement.
Allow free education for all medical roles and tie it to a ten year contract working in the NHS . If they chose to leave during the ten years then a reducing balance amount has to be paid back. At the end of ten years free to go.
Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. Couple this with improving the terms of employment such as flexible working etc to make the role more attractive in the first place along with the higher pay.
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.
This is child level common sense so why is action so lacking from those senior managers who have very high wages for their ability and obscene tax payer funded pension pots. Some equal to ten times their annual salary at the point of leaving so £150k salary £1.5M pension contribution. ( not all do I agree, but I have read full NHS trust accounts to be able to say this is common)
I recently discovered the local hospital has contracted out their dialysis department to a company. I also know of other privatised services . The NHS is being sold off right now and voters are not being told.
Feel free to Google this claim. "
I agree with most of your post but I would change the 10 years to 15 years and that only starts once they are fully qualified.
Oh and yes the Labour party like to keep quiet about what they privatised in the NHS when last in government.! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Couple of thoughts
Pay the junior doctors nurses , auxiliaries and cleaners etc more money . Not the senior managers or directors as they are responsible for the chronic mismanagement.
Allow free education for all medical roles and tie it to a ten year contract working in the NHS . If they chose to leave during the ten years then a reducing balance amount has to be paid back. At the end of ten years free to go.
Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. Couple this with improving the terms of employment such as flexible working etc to make the role more attractive in the first place along with the higher pay.
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.
This is child level common sense so why is action so lacking from those senior managers who have very high wages for their ability and obscene tax payer funded pension pots. Some equal to ten times their annual salary at the point of leaving so £150k salary £1.5M pension contribution. ( not all do I agree, but I have read full NHS trust accounts to be able to say this is common)
I recently discovered the local hospital has contracted out their dialysis department to a company. I also know of other privatised services . The NHS is being sold off right now and voters are not being told.
Feel free to Google this claim. "
Agree with almost all of this (and have said pretty much the same thing across a number of threads ie pay better to improve recruitment and retention, reinstate training bursary but with a lock in period).
The thing I don’t quite agree with is this...
“Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.”
All organisations occasionally require short term staff (cover illness, deliver one-off projects etc). Agency staff do not receive employment benefits such as holiday pay, sick pay, mat/pat leave, employer pension contrib, TUPE etc etc. To offset this they are paid higher day rates. |
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"Are wages that Low that both Nurses and Junior Doctors are talking of quitting, selling up and moving to both New Zealand and Australia for a better job?
is it that bad that they intend to leave family, friends and job?"
Heard an interview with a neurosurgeon who is still classified as a junior doctor after 20 years of working as a brain specialist and only earns just about £60k.
He could move elsewhere to become a consultant and earn a lot more but he doesn’t want to uproot his family and as there are no consultant positions available near him he is stuck in his role which is his choice but seems unjust given his experience |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Couple of thoughts
Pay the junior doctors nurses , auxiliaries and cleaners etc more money . Not the senior managers or directors as they are responsible for the chronic mismanagement.
Allow free education for all medical roles and tie it to a ten year contract working in the NHS . If they chose to leave during the ten years then a reducing balance amount has to be paid back. At the end of ten years free to go.
Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. Couple this with improving the terms of employment such as flexible working etc to make the role more attractive in the first place along with the higher pay.
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.
This is child level common sense so why is action so lacking from those senior managers who have very high wages for their ability and obscene tax payer funded pension pots. Some equal to ten times their annual salary at the point of leaving so £150k salary £1.5M pension contribution. ( not all do I agree, but I have read full NHS trust accounts to be able to say this is common)
I recently discovered the local hospital has contracted out their dialysis department to a company. I also know of other privatised services . The NHS is being sold off right now and voters are not being told.
Feel free to Google this claim.
Agree with almost all of this (and have said pretty much the same thing across a number of threads ie pay better to improve recruitment and retention, reinstate training bursary but with a lock in period).
The thing I don’t quite agree with is this...
“Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.”
All organisations occasionally require short term staff (cover illness, deliver one-off projects etc). Agency staff do not receive employment benefits such as holiday pay, sick pay, mat/pat leave, employer pension contrib, TUPE etc etc. To offset this they are paid higher day rates."
Yes good point and you are correct so I agree with you. The point I was trying to make was the job should be good enough to remove the need to leave if it paid better and was better around flexibility etc. Agency shouldn’t provide a net increase in the pay is probably a better approach. |
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"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ..."
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ...
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ."
Not disputing this but...
1. While not quite the same it is common practice to have non-compete clauses so a city trader cannot leave and join a rival without a cooling off period.
2. On another thread we were talking about changing workers rights post Brexit so they could make this legal! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ...
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ."
You’re talking around restrictive covenants for future new employers. You can in fact claim compensation from your former employee in such jobs so as to exclude competitors if the role could be construed as conflict of interest leading to losses at your former employer. In addiction the company you leave can sue both you and the new employer for breach and proven loss of potential revenue.
It is restricted under a “reasonable” time frame and of course is lead by your original contract of employment.
I’ve been sued and taken action on both sides of this argument .
Refusing to re-employ someone does not come under such rules.
If your policy is no former employees that’s your organisations policy. I’ve not issued such a policy clause so happy to be corrected on that. |
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"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ..."
"While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ."
"Not disputing this but...
1. While not quite the same it is common practice to have non-compete clauses so a city trader cannot leave and join a rival without a cooling off period."
Yes it is common practice, but those contract clauses are legally unenforceable. Companies put them in there just to intimidate people.
"2. On another thread we were talking about changing workers rights post Brexit so they could make this legal! "
They could, but it's in some of those pesky EU-retained laws, so we can't change them unless the Brexit Freedoms Bill gets passed. Some people seem to be opposing this, so it might not happen. |
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"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ..."
"While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ."
"You’re talking around restrictive covenants for future new employers. You can in fact claim compensation from your former employee in such jobs so as to exclude competitors if the role could be construed as conflict of interest leading to losses at your former employer. In addiction the company you leave can sue both you and the new employer for breach and proven loss of potential revenue.
It is restricted under a “reasonable” time frame and of course is lead by your original contract of employment.
I’ve been sued and taken action on both sides of this argument .
Refusing to re-employ someone does not come under such rules.
If your policy is no former employees that’s your organisations policy. I’ve not issued such a policy clause so happy to be corrected on that. "
I agree with your comments about loss of revenue, but the NHS won't be able to claim that ground. It would put them in the position of suing themselves to recover loss of revenue that, because the person moved jobs, didn't go to them, but instead went to the new employer (also them). In any case they would lose because their funding comes from central government, so they can't claim a loss of income due to the person leaving.
I also agree with your thoughts on refusal to re-employ, that's not a restrictive practice ... unless you are the monopoly supplier. For many NHS roles there are no private sector alternatives, so refusal to re-employ would indeed be restrictive. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ...
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ.
Not disputing this but...
1. While not quite the same it is common practice to have non-compete clauses so a city trader cannot leave and join a rival without a cooling off period.
Yes it is common practice, but those contract clauses are legally unenforceable. Companies put them in there just to intimidate people.
2. On another thread we were talking about changing workers rights post Brexit so they could make this legal!
They could, but it's in some of those pesky EU-retained laws, so we can't change them unless the Brexit Freedoms Bill gets passed. Some people seem to be opposing this, so it might not happen. "
You are correct in that you cannot restrict someone working for another company but you can restrict their actions and contacts if it’s in their original contract of employment with the previous employer.
It’s to do with the use of restricted intellectual property and who employed you at the time when that sensitive information was obtained.
The time of exclusion must be reasonable and proportionate. So a junior salesman probably max three months, senior Director with a multimillion pound portfolio would be excluded for between six months and a year. A company director selling his shares and leaving the business anything between a year and three years. This last one would probably have a separate settlement agreement so is likely to be clearly defined.
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ...
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ.
You’re talking around restrictive covenants for future new employers. You can in fact claim compensation from your former employee in such jobs so as to exclude competitors if the role could be construed as conflict of interest leading to losses at your former employer. In addiction the company you leave can sue both you and the new employer for breach and proven loss of potential revenue.
It is restricted under a “reasonable” time frame and of course is lead by your original contract of employment.
I’ve been sued and taken action on both sides of this argument .
Refusing to re-employ someone does not come under such rules.
If your policy is no former employees that’s your organisations policy. I’ve not issued such a policy clause so happy to be corrected on that.
I agree with your comments about loss of revenue, but the NHS won't be able to claim that ground. It would put them in the position of suing themselves to recover loss of revenue that, because the person moved jobs, didn't go to them, but instead went to the new employer (also them). In any case they would lose because their funding comes from central government, so they can't claim a loss of income due to the person leaving.
I also agree with your thoughts on refusal to re-employ, that's not a restrictive practice ... unless you are the monopoly supplier. For many NHS roles there are no private sector alternatives, so refusal to re-employ would indeed be restrictive."
I’m not suggesting they sue anyone just exclude anyone who leaves and on your second point seeing as private hospitals operate in the UK they do have alternative options in the industry although the role may differ.
Remember they have left they have not been sacked or made redundant so the choice was made by the employee to stop working for the NHS.
I think controlling the agency operation and rates would in the end be far more effective. The private agencies could ultimately import labour to continue charging ridiculous fees and circumvent any time exclusions.
Cut off the problem at source by only using in house part time staff. |
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"You are correct in that you cannot restrict someone working for another company but you can restrict their actions and contacts if it’s in their original contract of employment with the previous employer.
It’s to do with the use of restricted intellectual property and who employed you at the time when that sensitive information was obtained.
The time of exclusion must be reasonable and proportionate. So a junior salesman probably max three months, senior Director with a multimillion pound portfolio would be excluded for between six months and a year. A company director selling his shares and leaving the business anything between a year and three years. This last one would probably have a separate settlement agreement so is likely to be clearly defined. "
I agree with everything you say.
But we're talking about trying to prevent NHS employees leaving their jobs, and coming back as agency workers. What intellectual property can they have acquired from their old employer, the NHS, that must not be shared with their new employer, the NHS? |
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".. seeing as private hospitals operate in the UK they do have alternative options in the industry although the role may differ."
For nurses, that's true. Not so much for surgeons. Private hospitals just use NHS surgeons and a few private practitioners. They don't actually employ full-time surgeons.
"Remember they have left they have not been sacked or made redundant so the choice was made by the employee to stop working for the NHS.
I think controlling the agency operation and rates would in the end be far more effective. The private agencies could ultimately import labour to continue charging ridiculous fees and circumvent any time exclusions.
Cut off the problem at source by only using in house part time staff. "
I agree that placing such restrictions on NHS staff would be desirable, I'm just saying that it won't be at all easy to frame that in law without breaking some other law in the process. The law lords would be studying it for years. |
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By *andamoCouple
over a year ago
thornton heath |
Care workers are the most underfunded, for the work they do. Traditionally people in the care sector are regarded as vital. Problem is when society say's making money is the way to go. What if helping was valued. The btw I'm not a caregiver. I am not however in the private sector.  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ...
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ.
You’re talking around restrictive covenants for future new employers. You can in fact claim compensation from your former employee in such jobs so as to exclude competitors if the role could be construed as conflict of interest leading to losses at your former employer. In addiction the company you leave can sue both you and the new employer for breach and proven loss of potential revenue.
It is restricted under a “reasonable” time frame and of course is lead by your original contract of employment.
I’ve been sued and taken action on both sides of this argument .
Refusing to re-employ someone does not come under such rules.
If your policy is no former employees that’s your organisations policy. I’ve not issued such a policy clause so happy to be corrected on that.
I agree with your comments about loss of revenue, but the NHS won't be able to claim that ground. It would put them in the position of suing themselves to recover loss of revenue that, because the person moved jobs, didn't go to them, but instead went to the new employer (also them). In any case they would lose because their funding comes from central government, so they can't claim a loss of income due to the person leaving.
I also agree with your thoughts on refusal to re-employ, that's not a restrictive practice ... unless you are the monopoly supplier. For many NHS roles there are no private sector alternatives, so refusal to re-employ would indeed be restrictive.
I’m not suggesting they sue anyone just exclude anyone who leaves and on your second point seeing as private hospitals operate in the UK they do have alternative options in the industry although the role may differ.
Remember they have left they have not been sacked or made redundant so the choice was made by the employee to stop working for the NHS.
I think controlling the agency operation and rates would in the end be far more effective. The private agencies could ultimately import labour to continue charging ridiculous fees and circumvent any time exclusions.
Cut off the problem at source by only using in house part time staff. "
A training pay-back period is perfectly reasonable.
However, trying to control agency pay is one more nail in the coffin if providing NHS staff with adequate pay as you limit a route to demonstrate that poor pay and working conditions have consequences.
Limiting the margin than private providers can make on rates paid to their staff is perfectly reasonable though. |
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First time.e the wife done it she eas working private health on agency before leaving NHS then was back with in 6 months but was about 10 year ago RMN Nurse and has just walked out from one jog as government had dropped funding to PPG |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live? |
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"Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. ...
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency ...
While I agree with most of your post above, these two clauses would be illegal under the 'restrictive practice' laws. Very basically, you can't have a contract clause that limits a person's ability to find new work after they have left your employ.
You’re talking around restrictive covenants for future new employers. You can in fact claim compensation from your former employee in such jobs so as to exclude competitors if the role could be construed as conflict of interest leading to losses at your former employer. In addiction the company you leave can sue both you and the new employer for breach and proven loss of potential revenue.
It is restricted under a “reasonable” time frame and of course is lead by your original contract of employment.
I’ve been sued and taken action on both sides of this argument .
Refusing to re-employ someone does not come under such rules.
If your policy is no former employees that’s your organisations policy. I’ve not issued such a policy clause so happy to be corrected on that.
I agree with your comments about loss of revenue, but the NHS won't be able to claim that ground. It would put them in the position of suing themselves to recover loss of revenue that, because the person moved jobs, didn't go to them, but instead went to the new employer (also them). In any case they would lose because their funding comes from central government, so they can't claim a loss of income due to the person leaving.
I also agree with your thoughts on refusal to re-employ, that's not a restrictive practice ... unless you are the monopoly supplier. For many NHS roles there are no private sector alternatives, so refusal to re-employ would indeed be restrictive.
I’m not suggesting they sue anyone just exclude anyone who leaves and on your second point seeing as private hospitals operate in the UK they do have alternative options in the industry although the role may differ.
Remember they have left they have not been sacked or made redundant so the choice was made by the employee to stop working for the NHS.
I think controlling the agency operation and rates would in the end be far more effective. The private agencies could ultimately import labour to continue charging ridiculous fees and circumvent any time exclusions.
Cut off the problem at source by only using in house part time staff. "
But to do this you need in house staff and when you have a large number of agency staff how would you stop it. Also Bank staff doing over time only get payed time and a third not time and a half. With tax as it is all nurses band 5 and up watch the tax threshold. |
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"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?"
For AE staff what they see is benefit goes up 10% and the get offered 3%.
If this was to happen for long enough you would be better of not working.
Said wife drives 44mile to work fule cost 88m round trip, £14 A day parking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Kind of laughable how so many support nurses but not one mention for carers who are on far less money and zero pension or other support that nhs workers have.
Nurses are just todays story so everyone jumps on the bandwagon, what will you all be supporting tomorrow? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?
For AE staff what they see is benefit goes up 10% and the get offered 3%.
If this was to happen for long enough you would be better of not working.
Said wife drives 44mile to work fule cost 88m round trip, £14 A day parking. "
Has your wife considered changing careers? Michelle is a manger in care and is losing staff regularly. Three staff ( two female and one male ) have trained as lorry drivers and are earning treble their previous wage. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"You are correct in that you cannot restrict someone working for another company but you can restrict their actions and contacts if it’s in their original contract of employment with the previous employer.
It’s to do with the use of restricted intellectual property and who employed you at the time when that sensitive information was obtained.
The time of exclusion must be reasonable and proportionate. So a junior salesman probably max three months, senior Director with a multimillion pound portfolio would be excluded for between six months and a year. A company director selling his shares and leaving the business anything between a year and three years. This last one would probably have a separate settlement agreement so is likely to be clearly defined.
I agree with everything you say.
But we're talking about trying to prevent NHS employees leaving their jobs, and coming back as agency workers. What intellectual property can they have acquired from their old employer, the NHS, that must not be shared with their new employer, the NHS?"
Nothing at all it was a reference to the point about restrictive practices. The NHS can however introduce a contract which clearly states if you leave you will not be considered for direct or indirect employment with the organisation for two years. That does not stop anyone from seeking alternative employment.
It’s the stick side of the argument.
Like I said I personally would use a lot more carrot and couple this with dismantling the private agencies along with their high charges.
If a nurse knows an agency worker is being paid twice his or her rate how does that make them feel and why wouldn’t they say am I not worth the same? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Kind of laughable how so many support nurses but not one mention for carers who are on far less money and zero pension or other support that nhs workers have.
Nurses are just todays story so everyone jumps on the bandwagon, what will you all be supporting tomorrow?"
There has been lots of support for better pay on this forum for carers . They are frankly abused by the system. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?"
I agree but always follow the money...
1) Running down the NHS making it “unaffordable” while offering substandard service (due to lack of staff and low morale etc) creates an environment ripe for increased privatisation = opportunity for Tory Ministers and cronies to make money.
2) Supporting Ukraine (while rightly playing the morality card) creates an environment to require payback through lucrative contracts and access to natural resources = opportunity for Tory Ministers and cronies to make money. |
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"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?
For AE staff what they see is benefit goes up 10% and the get offered 3%.
If this was to happen for long enough you would be better of not working.
Said wife drives 44mile to work fule cost 88m round trip, £14 A day parking.
Has your wife considered changing careers? Michelle is a manger in care and is losing staff regularly. Three staff ( two female and one male ) have trained as lorry drivers and are earning treble their previous wage. "
No she has diversified as an RMN only realy now works agency so it OK She loves to help people.
Last week went to do a quick check on a patient and ended up taking them to AE 4 hours work turned in to 18 hours only invoiced the 4 |
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"You are correct in that you cannot restrict someone working for another company but you can restrict their actions and contacts if it’s in their original contract of employment with the previous employer.
It’s to do with the use of restricted intellectual property and who employed you at the time when that sensitive information was obtained.
The time of exclusion must be reasonable and proportionate. So a junior salesman probably max three months, senior Director with a multimillion pound portfolio would be excluded for between six months and a year. A company director selling his shares and leaving the business anything between a year and three years. This last one would probably have a separate settlement agreement so is likely to be clearly defined.
I agree with everything you say.
But we're talking about trying to prevent NHS employees leaving their jobs, and coming back as agency workers. What intellectual property can they have acquired from their old employer, the NHS, that must not be shared with their new employer, the NHS?
Nothing at all it was a reference to the point about restrictive practices. The NHS can however introduce a contract which clearly states if you leave you will not be considered for direct or indirect employment with the organisation for two years. That does not stop anyone from seeking alternative employment.
It’s the stick side of the argument.
Like I said I personally would use a lot more carrot and couple this with dismantling the private agencies along with their high charges.
If a nurse knows an agency worker is being paid twice his or her rate how does that make them feel and why wouldn’t they say am I not worth the same? "
OK eye opener twice the rate would not be worth it. As you lose holiday day, sick pay, pension, etc it's more like 3 times so about £300 a day agency then your not bothered if of sick !! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"You are correct in that you cannot restrict someone working for another company but you can restrict their actions and contacts if it’s in their original contract of employment with the previous employer.
It’s to do with the use of restricted intellectual property and who employed you at the time when that sensitive information was obtained.
The time of exclusion must be reasonable and proportionate. So a junior salesman probably max three months, senior Director with a multimillion pound portfolio would be excluded for between six months and a year. A company director selling his shares and leaving the business anything between a year and three years. This last one would probably have a separate settlement agreement so is likely to be clearly defined.
I agree with everything you say.
But we're talking about trying to prevent NHS employees leaving their jobs, and coming back as agency workers. What intellectual property can they have acquired from their old employer, the NHS, that must not be shared with their new employer, the NHS?
Nothing at all it was a reference to the point about restrictive practices. The NHS can however introduce a contract which clearly states if you leave you will not be considered for direct or indirect employment with the organisation for two years. That does not stop anyone from seeking alternative employment.
It’s the stick side of the argument.
Like I said I personally would use a lot more carrot and couple this with dismantling the private agencies along with their high charges.
If a nurse knows an agency worker is being paid twice his or her rate how does that make them feel and why wouldn’t they say am I not worth the same?
OK eye opener twice the rate would not be worth it. As you lose holiday day, sick pay, pension, etc it's more like 3 times so about £300 a day agency then you’re not bothered if of sick !!"
It’s not just the money as a reason to work agency. I know some who are paid twice and some who are three times the rate. They do it as they are choosing their hours and shift patterns .
The agency are doing nicely and even if it’s twice the rate they pay the nurse the increase costs over employing someone is dramatically higher for the NHS so wastes yet more money.
I used to employ a lot of truck drivers and we originally used agency cover which was expensive and problematic re quality . In the end we employed a batch of part timers . They were older but experienced guys usually semi retired or those who wanted to cut back their hours. We gave them a 50% salary for the full year but they had to cover up to 100 days per year max if required. Sometimes they did the full amount of days sometimes they didn’t which they obviously liked. We in effect gave them annualised hours. Overall it it actually worked out cheaper for us and we had a reliable quality staff bank to call on for holiday or sickness cover.
If the NHS had more capable management I’m sure they could improve the present situation .
Maybe the good managers are drowning in admin . |
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Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse."
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff. |
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"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff. "
Go for it tell me HOW.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?
For AE staff what they see is benefit goes up 10% and the get offered 3%.
If this was to happen for long enough you would be better of not working.
Said wife drives 44mile to work fule cost 88m round trip, £14 A day parking.
Has your wife considered changing careers? Michelle is a manger in care and is losing staff regularly. Three staff ( two female and one male ) have trained as lorry drivers and are earning treble their previous wage.
No she has diversified as an RMN only realy now works agency so it OK She loves to help people.
Last week went to do a quick check on a patient and ended up taking them to AE 4 hours work turned in to 18 hours only invoiced the 4 "
Sorry but you won’t like this. There’s no sentiment in business. If you do a job because you love it you have to accept the conditions warts and all. You do the job because you love it so can’t moan at the wages, because that’s why you are not doing the job. If you work 18 hours but claim 4 who is winning there? That won’t put food on your family table or provide care for your family whilst mum is working 12 hours for free. Charity begins at home my friend, please remember that. |
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"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?
For AE staff what they see is benefit goes up 10% and the get offered 3%.
If this was to happen for long enough you would be better of not working.
Said wife drives 44mile to work fule cost 88m round trip, £14 A day parking.
Has your wife considered changing careers? Michelle is a manger in care and is losing staff regularly. Three staff ( two female and one male ) have trained as lorry drivers and are earning treble their previous wage.
No she has diversified as an RMN only realy now works agency so it OK She loves to help people.
Last week went to do a quick check on a patient and ended up taking them to AE 4 hours work turned in to 18 hours only invoiced the 4
Sorry but you won’t like this. There’s no sentiment in business. If you do a job because you love it you have to accept the conditions warts and all. You do the job because you love it so can’t moan at the wages, because that’s why you are not doing the job. If you work 18 hours but claim 4 who is winning there? That won’t put food on your family table or provide care for your family whilst mum is working 12 hours for free. Charity begins at home my friend, please remember that. "
No I can take that it's only the 10th time she had seen this lady and had to do the right thing. To be fair you commented is fine and I don't have a problem with it at all.
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff.
Go for it tell me HOW.
"
Read above posted suggestions! |
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"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff.
Go for it tell me HOW.
Read above posted suggestions! "
Have re read most of it but.
Is the NHS private ? Hard to work out now.
Most are Trusts like Schools are academy's. So if some one left sussex partner ship would you ban them for a year from working for university suxxex. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I work for several agencies either deployed at nursing homes, in the community or hospitals. I have several reasons for deciding to work for agencies, mains ones being - I can pick an choose my hours being the first and fore most. I have worked for private companies or charities most of my career and in general, especially these past few years have worked understaffed and not being compensated for the extra workload, burning out while not being able to take annual leave due to staff shortages. Private companies do not pay sick pay so when running the floor understaffed are making more money on the staff carrying that extra load, while the NHS are paying for interim beds whether there is a head on the pillow or not.
It's not an easy situation for anyone working in the care sector, who knows what the answer is, but agency staff definitely isn't the issue. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I work for several agencies either deployed at nursing homes, in the community or hospitals. I have several reasons for deciding to work for agencies, mains ones being - I can pick an choose my hours being the first and fore most. I have worked for private companies or charities most of my career and in general, especially these past few years have worked understaffed and not being compensated for the extra workload, burning out while not being able to take annual leave due to staff shortages. Private companies do not pay sick pay so when running the floor understaffed are making more money on the staff carrying that extra load, while the NHS are paying for interim beds whether there is a head on the pillow or not.
It's not an easy situation for anyone working in the care sector, who knows what the answer is, but agency staff definitely isn't the issue."
The cost of agency and the loss of full time staff is definitely part of the issue. It’s not the main problem and could be addressed.
Sone of the main problems are the piecemeal privatisation along with the top heavy incompetent management ultimately being controlled by equally incompetent market forces driven government. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff.
Go for it tell me HOW.
Read above posted suggestions!
Have re read most of it but.
Is the NHS private ? Hard to work out now.
Most are Trusts like Schools are academy's. So if some one left sussex partner ship would you ban them for a year from working for university suxxex. "
It’s still mostly wooden dollars regarding trust status so easy to identify what’s operating as a privatised service. A decent accountant should do that very quickly. Does the NHS have any decent accountants?
The privatisation should be reversed. The mess that the energy sector snd water companies are in, clearly shows what happens when profits and investors are the driver over investment and quality of service.
You moving into a parallel discussion which is relevant but can be sorted and is not the main issue of the staff problem. |
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"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff.
Go for it tell me HOW.
Read above posted suggestions!
Have re read most of it but.
Is the NHS private ? Hard to work out now.
Most are Trusts like Schools are academy's. So if some one left sussex partner ship would you ban them for a year from working for university suxxex.
It’s still mostly wooden dollars regarding trust status so easy to identify what’s operating as a privatised service. A decent accountant should do that very quickly. Does the NHS have any decent accountants?
The privatisation should be reversed. The mess that the energy sector snd water companies are in, clearly shows what happens when profits and investors are the driver over investment and quality of service.
You moving into a parallel discussion which is relevant but can be sorted and is not the main issue of the staff problem. "
Not true when in one hospital you have staff working for diferant trusts on diferant terms and conditions working almost side by side. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff.
Go for it tell me HOW.
Read above posted suggestions!
Have re read most of it but.
Is the NHS private ? Hard to work out now.
Most are Trusts like Schools are academy's. So if some one left sussex partner ship would you ban them for a year from working for university suxxex.
It’s still mostly wooden dollars regarding trust status so easy to identify what’s operating as a privatised service. A decent accountant should do that very quickly. Does the NHS have any decent accountants?
The privatisation should be reversed. The mess that the energy sector snd water companies are in, clearly shows what happens when profits and investors are the driver over investment and quality of service.
You moving into a parallel discussion which is relevant but can be sorted and is not the main issue of the staff problem.
Not true when in one hospital you have staff working for diferant trusts on diferant terms and conditions working almost side by side. "
The job grades are universal and the rates should be matched across the country. You’re saying it isn’t and I’m not arguing. Im saying that’s wrong too.
So in response we need to make sure they are all working for the same government NHS . The trusts are funded by the government. The payments to the privatised sections are paid by the government. Save some private hospitals who use services but they cherry pick investments on facilities.
The creation of complicated structures only adds to the chronic lack of quality management and the appalling waste of money.
I’ve studied two trusts accounts and it’s a disgrace that the senior directors are not sacked. The waste and overpayments are overwhelming.
No accountability at a senior level and a very well cushioned landing if you quit or are asked to step down. It’s blatant reward for failure .
When you hear of scandals of deaths in hospitals how often do you hear of NHS Directors going to jail? No they just get another job. I know the nature of the industry but the lack of action and pure negligence should be punished.
Directors go to jail in the private sector if they are proved to be at fault. |
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"Sounds like you found a model that worked for you NHS bank staff get time and a third,
But yes lots of agency like the flexibility like the wife as we like at least 6 weeks holidaying and she dose other Nursing work as well as a fight Nurse.
I agree with your view as it works for you. I just think bad management in the NHS just burns cash without any serious attempt to mitigate .
There has got to be batter way to retain good staff.
Go for it tell me HOW.
Read above posted suggestions!
Have re read most of it but.
Is the NHS private ? Hard to work out now.
Most are Trusts like Schools are academy's. So if some one left sussex partner ship would you ban them for a year from working for university suxxex.
It’s still mostly wooden dollars regarding trust status so easy to identify what’s operating as a privatised service. A decent accountant should do that very quickly. Does the NHS have any decent accountants?
The privatisation should be reversed. The mess that the energy sector snd water companies are in, clearly shows what happens when profits and investors are the driver over investment and quality of service.
You moving into a parallel discussion which is relevant but can be sorted and is not the main issue of the staff problem.
Not true when in one hospital you have staff working for diferant trusts on diferant terms and conditions working almost side by side.
The job grades are universal and the rates should be matched across the country. You’re saying it isn’t and I’m not arguing. Im saying that’s wrong too.
So in response we need to make sure they are all working for the same government NHS . The trusts are funded by the government. The payments to the privatised sections are paid by the government. Save some private hospitals who use services but they cherry pick investments on facilities.
The creation of complicated structures only adds to the chronic lack of quality management and the appalling waste of money.
I’ve studied two trusts accounts and it’s a disgrace that the senior directors are not sacked. The waste and overpayments are overwhelming.
No accountability at a senior level and a very well cushioned landing if you quit or are asked to step down. It’s blatant reward for failure .
When you hear of scandals of deaths in hospitals how often do you hear of NHS Directors going to jail? No they just get another job. I know the nature of the industry but the lack of action and pure negligence should be punished.
Directors go to jail in the private sector if they are proved to be at fault. "
The Directors of a hospital would just blame budget's so get et off if they did not every hospital Coast would spiral. |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people Maybe most rational people take a more objective assessment. Many people are paid a lot less than nurses whose average pay is circa. £34000. Some nurses even top up their pay by doing agency work on days off and this is not because they are broke , it is because they want to.
The £34000 referred to above is not a true comparison to the private sector . With adjustments for pension contributions this comparable can be uplifted to £50000 when doing certain comparisons. Those supporting totally ridiculous pay increases never give any indication of where the funding for a settlement will come from..
Increasing NHS salaries by 1 % costs £900 million . This would fund the hiring of 16000 full time nurses of half a million procedures.
Reports of the headline settlement figure of 4 % is only the minimum figure that every worker will get , many individual salaries will increase further as will the overall pay bill.
I know people who are paid a lot less than nurses. Why should the public be expected to pay for totally unrealistic pay increase requests. ? On a simplistic basis one person's pay increase is another person's cost. It is as simple as that .
The government need to support ordinary working people and hold firm on this request. They need to drive home the value of the pension scheme and the various other perks that NHS staff receive . These perks vastly exceed those available in the private sector. |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people Maybe most rational people take a more objective assessment. Many people are paid a lot less than nurses whose average pay is circa. £34000. Some nurses even top up their pay by doing agency work on days off and this is not because they are broke , it is because they want to.
The £34000 referred to above is not a true comparison to the private sector . With adjustments for pension contributions this comparable can be uplifted to £50000 when doing certain comparisons. Those supporting totally ridiculous pay increases never give any indication of where the funding for a settlement will come from..
Increasing NHS salaries by 1 % costs £900 million . This would fund the hiring of 16000 full time nurses of half a million procedures.
Reports of the headline settlement figure of 4 % is only the minimum figure that every worker will get , many individual salaries will increase further as will the overall pay bill.
I know people who are paid a lot less than nurses. Why should the public be expected to pay for totally unrealistic pay increase requests. ? On a simplistic basis one person's pay increase is another person's cost. It is as simple as that .
The government need to support ordinary working people and hold firm on this request. They need to drive home the value of the pension scheme and the various other perks that NHS staff receive . These perks vastly exceed those available in the private sector. "
So I take it you don't think 4% is fair due to cost so why did the put you benifit by 10%.
Let's say hypothetically nurses get 3% for the next 10 years 30%
And benifit is 10% for 10 years 100%. How is going to want to go to work in nursing.
And with travel cost and parking you lose after deductions about £100 / 4 shifts or 50 hours |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
I do think the lower paid in general across the NHS should get a decent pay rise. We don’t value the people who care for us including care home, visiting care workers and cleaners etc.
The higher bands of directors and senior managers should have their pay frozen as they have risen beyond what I believe is reasonable in many cases. That level could also do with a cull and use that saving to help pay the lower paid’s increase. It would also mean the remaining directors have to earn their salaries. I’m sure many do so not a one comment fits all.
The pension system is obscene at a senior level and should be reduced a lot. Industry often matches pound for pound contribution so do the same in the NHS. I’ve seen pension liabilities that it would be impossible for the director to have built up even if they had put 100% of their salary into it over the last 15 years . That is wrong !
On the parking note above I’m tending to think the staff should pay parking.
Office staff and shop workers in a city if they drive pay parking, so do people using trains to commute if they park at a station.
By all means a 50% staff discount or something .
My view is the only people who shouldn’t be paying is the family of the people in the in hospital if the patient has family dependants. I know sounds odd doesn’t it! Well sometimes the family’s sole breadwinner is hooked up to some machine in that hospital and his or her family have no income and yet have to pay to visit their loved one.
It’s a minor point but it puts the I have to pay parking complaint in perspective .
Finally on the comment about the budget would be blamed as a reason over unnecessary deaths . That’s an example of what’s wrong because a private sector director saying we didn’t have the money for a safety guard doesn’t cut it and you still go to jail.
|
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"I do think the lower paid in general across the NHS should get a decent pay rise. We don’t value the people who care for us including care home, visiting care workers and cleaners etc.
The higher bands of directors and senior managers should have their pay frozen as they have risen beyond what I believe is reasonable in many cases. That level could also do with a cull and use that saving to help pay the lower paid’s increase. It would also mean the remaining directors have to earn their salaries. I’m sure many do so not a one comment fits all.
The pension system is obscene at a senior level and should be reduced a lot. Industry often matches pound for pound contribution so do the same in the NHS. I’ve seen pension liabilities that it would be impossible for the director to have built up even if they had put 100% of their salary into it over the last 15 years . That is wrong !
On the parking note above I’m tending to think the staff should pay parking.
Office staff and shop workers in a city if they drive pay parking, so do people using trains to commute if they park at a station.
By all means a 50% staff discount or something .
My view is the only people who shouldn’t be paying is the family of the people in the in hospital if the patient has family dependants. I know sounds odd doesn’t it! Well sometimes the family’s sole breadwinner is hooked up to some machine in that hospital and his or her family have no income and yet have to pay to visit their loved one.
It’s a minor point but it puts the I have to pay parking complaint in perspective .
Finally on the comment about the budget would be blamed as a reason over unnecessary deaths . That’s an example of what’s wrong because a private sector director saying we didn’t have the money for a safety guard doesn’t cut it and you still go to jail.
"
So on this last point if AE is under staffed and the director feels its "un safe" should they close the unit to avoid being prosecuted. Or keep it open with the risk of going to jail.
Even if the waiting time gets above the guide line would it be fair to lock the door so safe treatment can me given to those all ready addmited.? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I do think the lower paid in general across the NHS should get a decent pay rise. We don’t value the people who care for us including care home, visiting care workers and cleaners etc.
The higher bands of directors and senior managers should have their pay frozen as they have risen beyond what I believe is reasonable in many cases. That level could also do with a cull and use that saving to help pay the lower paid’s increase. It would also mean the remaining directors have to earn their salaries. I’m sure many do so not a one comment fits all.
The pension system is obscene at a senior level and should be reduced a lot. Industry often matches pound for pound contribution so do the same in the NHS. I’ve seen pension liabilities that it would be impossible for the director to have built up even if they had put 100% of their salary into it over the last 15 years . That is wrong !
On the parking note above I’m tending to think the staff should pay parking.
Office staff and shop workers in a city if they drive pay parking, so do people using trains to commute if they park at a station.
By all means a 50% staff discount or something .
My view is the only people who shouldn’t be paying is the family of the people in the in hospital if the patient has family dependants. I know sounds odd doesn’t it! Well sometimes the family’s sole breadwinner is hooked up to some machine in that hospital and his or her family have no income and yet have to pay to visit their loved one.
It’s a minor point but it puts the I have to pay parking complaint in perspective .
Finally on the comment about the budget would be blamed as a reason over unnecessary deaths . That’s an example of what’s wrong because a private sector director saying we didn’t have the money for a safety guard doesn’t cut it and you still go to jail.
So on this last point if AE is under staffed and the director feels its "un safe" should they close the unit to avoid being prosecuted. Or keep it open with the risk of going to jail.
Even if the waiting time gets above the guide line would it be fair to lock the door so safe treatment can me given to those all ready addmited.?"
I’ll refer you to the trust where despite repeated warnings being given children kept dying. That’s the situation where incompetence and criminal neglect is clearly visible but no one will be jailed.
A director should take action in the case you mention and would divert new cases away from the unit and do other things such as reorganise his staff taking sone off other less life threatening duties. It’s why less urgent ( or important if you prefer) cases are being left in ambulances because they are less at risk from dying than those rushed in. So why would he be prosecuted if he took all reasonable actions available to him? An A&E unit will know it will be tested every day. It’s how they react to that test which gives an indication of how well it’s run.
Would you recommend he closes up and surrenders ? Not sure taking that avenue is why he’s being paid the big bucks!!
Like I said they have to earn it! The job pays well because it wants someone who can handle the situation without closing the doors.
Your suggesting as I’m sure a lot do, is to say sorry this is too much work I’m going home!
|
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"I do think the lower paid in general across the NHS should get a decent pay rise. We don’t value the people who care for us including care home, visiting care workers and cleaners etc.
The higher bands of directors and senior managers should have their pay frozen as they have risen beyond what I believe is reasonable in many cases. That level could also do with a cull and use that saving to help pay the lower paid’s increase. It would also mean the remaining directors have to earn their salaries. I’m sure many do so not a one comment fits all.
The pension system is obscene at a senior level and should be reduced a lot. Industry often matches pound for pound contribution so do the same in the NHS. I’ve seen pension liabilities that it would be impossible for the director to have built up even if they had put 100% of their salary into it over the last 15 years . That is wrong !
On the parking note above I’m tending to think the staff should pay parking.
Office staff and shop workers in a city if they drive pay parking, so do people using trains to commute if they park at a station.
By all means a 50% staff discount or something .
My view is the only people who shouldn’t be paying is the family of the people in the in hospital if the patient has family dependants. I know sounds odd doesn’t it! Well sometimes the family’s sole breadwinner is hooked up to some machine in that hospital and his or her family have no income and yet have to pay to visit their loved one.
It’s a minor point but it puts the I have to pay parking complaint in perspective .
Finally on the comment about the budget would be blamed as a reason over unnecessary deaths . That’s an example of what’s wrong because a private sector director saying we didn’t have the money for a safety guard doesn’t cut it and you still go to jail.
So on this last point if AE is under staffed and the director feels its "un safe" should they close the unit to avoid being prosecuted. Or keep it open with the risk of going to jail.
Even if the waiting time gets above the guide line would it be fair to lock the door so safe treatment can me given to those all ready addmited.?
I’ll refer you to the trust where despite repeated warnings being given children kept dying. That’s the situation where incompetence and criminal neglect is clearly visible but no one will be jailed.
A director should take action in the case you mention and would divert new cases away from the unit and do other things such as reorganise his staff taking sone off other less life threatening duties. It’s why less urgent ( or important if you prefer) cases are being left in ambulances because they are less at risk from dying than those rushed in. So why would he be prosecuted if he took all reasonable actions available to him? An A&E unit will know it will be tested every day. It’s how they react to that test which gives an indication of how well it’s run.
Would you recommend he closes up and surrenders ? Not sure taking that avenue is why he’s being paid the big bucks!!
Like I said they have to earn it! The job pays well because it wants someone who can handle the situation without closing the doors.
Your suggesting as I’m sure a lot do, is to say sorry this is too much work I’m going home!
"
No I was compering it to your example of the security person. Have gone work in prisons and due to lack of staff we could not be ascorted so where turned away due to safety. I don't see how this can apply to AE don't know about the rest of a hospital never worked there. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I do think the lower paid in general across the NHS should get a decent pay rise. We don’t value the people who care for us including care home, visiting care workers and cleaners etc.
The higher bands of directors and senior managers should have their pay frozen as they have risen beyond what I believe is reasonable in many cases. That level could also do with a cull and use that saving to help pay the lower paid’s increase. It would also mean the remaining directors have to earn their salaries. I’m sure many do so not a one comment fits all.
The pension system is obscene at a senior level and should be reduced a lot. Industry often matches pound for pound contribution so do the same in the NHS. I’ve seen pension liabilities that it would be impossible for the director to have built up even if they had put 100% of their salary into it over the last 15 years . That is wrong !
On the parking note above I’m tending to think the staff should pay parking.
Office staff and shop workers in a city if they drive pay parking, so do people using trains to commute if they park at a station.
By all means a 50% staff discount or something .
My view is the only people who shouldn’t be paying is the family of the people in the in hospital if the patient has family dependants. I know sounds odd doesn’t it! Well sometimes the family’s sole breadwinner is hooked up to some machine in that hospital and his or her family have no income and yet have to pay to visit their loved one.
It’s a minor point but it puts the I have to pay parking complaint in perspective .
Finally on the comment about the budget would be blamed as a reason over unnecessary deaths . That’s an example of what’s wrong because a private sector director saying we didn’t have the money for a safety guard doesn’t cut it and you still go to jail.
So on this last point if AE is under staffed and the director feels its "un safe" should they close the unit to avoid being prosecuted. Or keep it open with the risk of going to jail.
Even if the waiting time gets above the guide line would it be fair to lock the door so safe treatment can me given to those all ready addmited.?
I’ll refer you to the trust where despite repeated warnings being given children kept dying. That’s the situation where incompetence and criminal neglect is clearly visible but no one will be jailed.
A director should take action in the case you mention and would divert new cases away from the unit and do other things such as reorganise his staff taking sone off other less life threatening duties. It’s why less urgent ( or important if you prefer) cases are being left in ambulances because they are less at risk from dying than those rushed in. So why would he be prosecuted if he took all reasonable actions available to him? An A&E unit will know it will be tested every day. It’s how they react to that test which gives an indication of how well it’s run.
Would you recommend he closes up and surrenders ? Not sure taking that avenue is why he’s being paid the big bucks!!
Like I said they have to earn it! The job pays well because it wants someone who can handle the situation without closing the doors.
Your suggesting as I’m sure a lot do, is to say sorry this is too much work I’m going home!
No I was compering it to your example of the security person. Have gone work in prisons and due to lack of staff we could not be ascorted so where turned away due to safety. I don't see how this can apply to AE don't know about the rest of a hospital never worked there."
Security person? |
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"I do think the lower paid in general across the NHS should get a decent pay rise. We don’t value the people who care for us including care home, visiting care workers and cleaners etc.
The higher bands of directors and senior managers should have their pay frozen as they have risen beyond what I believe is reasonable in many cases. That level could also do with a cull and use that saving to help pay the lower paid’s increase. It would also mean the remaining directors have to earn their salaries. I’m sure many do so not a one comment fits all.
The pension system is obscene at a senior level and should be reduced a lot. Industry often matches pound for pound contribution so do the same in the NHS. I’ve seen pension liabilities that it would be impossible for the director to have built up even if they had put 100% of their salary into it over the last 15 years . That is wrong !
On the parking note above I’m tending to think the staff should pay parking.
Office staff and shop workers in a city if they drive pay parking, so do people using trains to commute if they park at a station.
By all means a 50% staff discount or something .
My view is the only people who shouldn’t be paying is the family of the people in the in hospital if the patient has family dependants. I know sounds odd doesn’t it! Well sometimes the family’s sole breadwinner is hooked up to some machine in that hospital and his or her family have no income and yet have to pay to visit their loved one.
It’s a minor point but it puts the I have to pay parking complaint in perspective .
Finally on the comment about the budget would be blamed as a reason over unnecessary deaths . That’s an example of what’s wrong because a private sector director saying we didn’t have the money for a safety guard doesn’t cut it and you still go to jail.
So on this last point if AE is under staffed and the director feels its "un safe" should they close the unit to avoid being prosecuted. Or keep it open with the risk of going to jail.
Even if the waiting time gets above the guide line would it be fair to lock the door so safe treatment can me given to those all ready addmited.?
I’ll refer you to the trust where despite repeated warnings being given children kept dying. That’s the situation where incompetence and criminal neglect is clearly visible but no one will be jailed.
A director should take action in the case you mention and would divert new cases away from the unit and do other things such as reorganise his staff taking sone off other less life threatening duties. It’s why less urgent ( or important if you prefer) cases are being left in ambulances because they are less at risk from dying than those rushed in. So why would he be prosecuted if he took all reasonable actions available to him? An A&E unit will know it will be tested every day. It’s how they react to that test which gives an indication of how well it’s run.
Would you recommend he closes up and surrenders ? Not sure taking that avenue is why he’s being paid the big bucks!!
Like I said they have to earn it! The job pays well because it wants someone who can handle the situation without closing the doors.
Your suggesting as I’m sure a lot do, is to say sorry this is too much work I’m going home!
No I was compering it to your example of the security person. Have gone work in prisons and due to lack of staff we could not be ascorted so where turned away due to safety. I don't see how this can apply to AE don't know about the rest of a hospital never worked there.
Security person? "
Sorry don't think it was you that posted that. |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies."
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
"
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
"
1. No idea but some will have joined agencies. Anecdotally I know some nurses who have simply had enough and changed industry completely. One now works for Waitrose earning more money with far shorter hours and better conditions. She feels guilty though.
2. All public sector pensions have been hammered. They are still better than the majority of private sector pensions (not utilities) and because of that most people don’t care. Actually everyone should have better pensions but people seemed to have accepted the reverse narrative.
3. The 133,000 vacancies, who knows! Although cutting the UK off from half a billion potential workers won’t have helped. In the end the only way to tackle it will be a combination of taking a strategic approach to training, pay and conditions to attract/retain more people but short term we need immigration. However, this government will not tackle it as they ideologically are opposed to the NHS and Sunak et al can see business opportunities through increased privatisation. They will line their pockets instead. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !! "
Radical thinking there
Crazy isn’t it. We could allow people to work, under certain restrictions, while their visa applications are processed. It could be used like a probationary period to see if they are good citizens and provide benefit to the UK. That in turn supports/helps their visa application.
Trouble is nobody is making bank from that! |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !! "
All applicants for medical work in the NHS need to pass a specialised English exam, so not always as black and white as first seems
One of the biggest problems that I see, is the availability of housing stock. In my town, we have three hotels full of asylum seekers. They have been there for over a year now. The average wait for a single man requiring a council house in this town is 43 years!
Ukrainians are being asked for 6 months rent up front to rent somewhere. Some are being asked to supply a UK host rent guarantor.
We are building houses on every available space in this county. Trouble is, the vast majority are high end homes, and not social housing.
If we are asking NHS to work long hours under pressure, should we also not be asking our civil service to step up and get these claims through quicker?
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !!
All applicants for medical work in the NHS need to pass a specialised English exam, so not always as black and white as first seems
One of the biggest problems that I see, is the availability of housing stock. In my town, we have three hotels full of asylum seekers. They have been there for over a year now. The average wait for a single man requiring a council house in this town is 43 years!
Ukrainians are being asked for 6 months rent up front to rent somewhere. Some are being asked to supply a UK host rent guarantor.
We are building houses on every available space in this county. Trouble is, the vast majority are high end homes, and not social housing.
If we are asking NHS to work long hours under pressure, should we also not be asking our civil service to step up and get these claims through quicker?
"
The reason most asylum seekers come to the U.K. is because English is their main or second language. The guy I spoke to was quite simply fluent so I don’t think that’s valid.
There will never be enough houses because that would devalue land banks and as I’ve said 25% of the Tory funding is from property developers. Why did stamp duty get cut during covid? The builders couldn’t work so it wasn’t to save jobs was it! It was to keep values high. Much higher than they would be with mass building projects.
The government had cut back staffing levels even prior to Brexit but Brexit exposed a need for 50,000 new customs posts across the industry which in turn would need a far higher border force count. Those jobs were not filled so staff were moved and as a result immigrant processing stalls to three times the normal numbers . Now the Tory party can blame immigrants for everything seeing as the EU can’t be blamed anymore.
If the system was working as it used to the annual bill would be cut by over £2B A great deal of that number is profit for middle men booking hotels up. Councils used to do it as part of their normal routine but now private companies are used . Profit profit profit !! Bloody immigrants they are making a lot of people very rich now. Buggers
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Newly qualified nurses make around £27k. Taking your average, that means half of all nurses make less than £34k.
"
Someone is lying in these figures.
I've spoken with several nurses who claim to make between 17 and 19k and say they would be better off in a supermarket.
Which by the way pays approximately £21k if you can find a 37hr contract.
Either these nurses are part time or the NHS are underpaying them.
Publishing the truth in the news would be nice. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !!
All applicants for medical work in the NHS need to pass a specialised English exam, so not always as black and white as first seems
One of the biggest problems that I see, is the availability of housing stock. In my town, we have three hotels full of asylum seekers. They have been there for over a year now. The average wait for a single man requiring a council house in this town is 43 years!
Ukrainians are being asked for 6 months rent up front to rent somewhere. Some are being asked to supply a UK host rent guarantor.
We are building houses on every available space in this county. Trouble is, the vast majority are high end homes, and not social housing.
If we are asking NHS to work long hours under pressure, should we also not be asking our civil service to step up and get these claims through quicker?
"
A very large number of foreign medical staff, engineers and all sorts of other professions are trained in English.
What's the bet that there is a bottleneck in language testing after the bottleneck in immigration processing rather than there being a problem with the language.
We are not building houses on every available space. Brown field sites lie underdeveloped because they cost much more to build on. Low rent areas where hiding is most needed is also left because there's not enough money in it. Nice Greenfield sites out of town attract a nice fat premium though.
You think the civil service are sitting around with their feet up with lots of excess capacity? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !!
All applicants for medical work in the NHS need to pass a specialised English exam, so not always as black and white as first seems
One of the biggest problems that I see, is the availability of housing stock. In my town, we have three hotels full of asylum seekers. They have been there for over a year now. The average wait for a single man requiring a council house in this town is 43 years!
Ukrainians are being asked for 6 months rent up front to rent somewhere. Some are being asked to supply a UK host rent guarantor.
We are building houses on every available space in this county. Trouble is, the vast majority are high end homes, and not social housing.
If we are asking NHS to work long hours under pressure, should we also not be asking our civil service to step up and get these claims through quicker?
A very large number of foreign medical staff, engineers and all sorts of other professions are trained in English.
What's the bet that there is a bottleneck in language testing after the bottleneck in immigration processing rather than there being a problem with the language.
We are not building houses on every available space. Brown field sites lie underdeveloped because they cost much more to build on. Low rent areas where hiding is most needed is also left because there's not enough money in it. Nice Greenfield sites out of town attract a nice fat premium though.
You think the civil service are sitting around with their feet up with lots of excess capacity?"
Power game. All by design.
So the masses cock fight and kill eachother.
Master plan at work. Even so as we sleep at night! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Jobs such as nurses are often looked upon as vocational and needing a certain disposition that ranks highly in the doing it for the good of, which then assumes they are doing a job not for the money but for the love of it.
I support paying them more, also pay police officers, firefighters and paramedics more.
"
The state of the force and firefighter brigade atm laughing stock of crimes against women. Been going on for years swept under the carpet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. "
Listen man, they didn't miss a beat during covid. They got pay,sick psy,holiday pay,pension pay...the private sector, which pays them, got hammered.
These whining fuks are the reason we are bankrupt.
I fukin hate the state sector. Entitled lazy fuks, where there is no mechanism for failure.
My experience of the nhs is dire.
I'm sick of this hero worship of the state.
Join the real world and work without idiots clapping and banging pots and pans.
I'd sack them the hire them back,if they want to work, at half their original salary.
Miserable ingratiate.
|
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Listen man, they didn't miss a beat during covid. They got pay,sick psy,holiday pay,pension pay...the private sector, which pays them, got hammered.
These whining fuks are the reason we are bankrupt.
I fukin hate the state sector. Entitled lazy fuks, where there is no mechanism for failure.
My experience of the nhs is dire.
I'm sick of this hero worship of the state.
Join the real world and work without idiots clapping and banging pots and pans.
I'd sack them the hire them back,if they want to work, at half their original salary.
Miserable ingratiate.
"
All hail, cometh the corporate takeover. |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. . Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay. "
Socialists are always good at spending someone else’s money |
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"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.. Maybe you need to start reading a few newspapers . The article referred to the nurses by name , showed photographs of them and their payslips. Log on to tik tok and check for yourself.
Neither the agency concerned. , the nurses themselves or the agency have disputed any of the facts in the article. It covered two pages . It sounds like the truth hurts on occasions. "
Log onto Tik Tok is the most worrying thing about this comment.. |
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"Couple of thoughts
Pay the junior doctors nurses , auxiliaries and cleaners etc more money . Not the senior managers or directors as they are responsible for the chronic mismanagement.
Allow free education for all medical roles and tie it to a ten year contract working in the NHS . If they chose to leave during the ten years then a reducing balance amount has to be paid back. At the end of ten years free to go.
Anyone leaving the NHS cannot come back as agency or contractor for two years minimum. Couple this with improving the terms of employment such as flexible working etc to make the role more attractive in the first place along with the higher pay.
Any agency doctors or nurses who wish to return after two years to be employed by a government owned agency who will pay the standard rate to the agency staff not more than existing NHS staff.
This is child level common sense so why is action so lacking from those senior managers who have very high wages for their ability and obscene tax payer funded pension pots. Some equal to ten times their annual salary at the point of leaving so £150k salary £1.5M pension contribution. ( not all do I agree, but I have read full NHS trust accounts to be able to say this is common)
I recently discovered the local hospital has contracted out their dialysis department to a company. I also know of other privatised services . The NHS is being sold off right now and voters are not being told.
Feel free to Google this claim.
I agree with most of your post but I would change the 10 years to 15 years and that only starts once they are fully qualified.
Oh and yes the Labour party like to keep quiet about what they privatised in the NHS when last in government.!"
Blimey that comment won’t go down well with all the labour voters on this thread |
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"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?"
What’s this a party political broadcast by the Labour Party |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Listen man, they didn't miss a beat during covid. They got pay,sick psy,holiday pay,pension pay...the private sector, which pays them, got hammered.
These whining fuks are the reason we are bankrupt.
I fukin hate the state sector. Entitled lazy fuks, where there is no mechanism for failure.
My experience of the nhs is dire.
I'm sick of this hero worship of the state.
Join the real world and work without idiots clapping and banging pots and pans.
I'd sack them the hire them back,if they want to work, at half their original salary.
Miserable ingratiate.
"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Listen man, they didn't miss a beat during covid. They got pay,sick psy,holiday pay,pension pay...the private sector, which pays them, got hammered.
These whining fuks are the reason we are bankrupt.
I fukin hate the state sector. Entitled lazy fuks, where there is no mechanism for failure.
My experience of the nhs is dire.
I'm sick of this hero worship of the state.
Join the real world and work without idiots clapping and banging pots and pans.
I'd sack them the hire them back,if they want to work, at half their original salary.
Miserable ingratiate.
"
Why are you so bitter |
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"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?
What’s this a party political broadcast by the Labour Party "
Why do you think only the Labour party want British workers to be paid fairly? Don't you think the Lib Dems, Greens, etc want that too? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"look isn’t it hard to agree that you want a happy workforce you don’t treat them like shit.
This is what 12 years of tory rule have done. They’ve taken a good thing and made it worse, and in the end we’ve suffered because of it.
I hope Nurses get a better pay offer.
If we can send weapons to Ukraine to give their people a better chance to live, shouldn’t we be giving our people decent wages to also live?
What’s this a party political broadcast by the Labour Party "
Do you not want medical staff to have a reasonable pay rise and be better supported in their working conditions and numbers? |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. . Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay.
Socialists are always good at spending someone else’s money "
But eventually they run out of other people's money. IMF 1976? Labour's Liam Byrne and his parting note 2010?
|
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Listen man, they didn't miss a beat during covid. They got pay,sick psy,holiday pay,pension pay...the private sector, which pays them, got hammered.
These whining fuks are the reason we are bankrupt.
I fukin hate the state sector. Entitled lazy fuks, where there is no mechanism for failure.
My experience of the nhs is dire.
I'm sick of this hero worship of the state.
Join the real world and work without idiots clapping and banging pots and pans.
I'd sack them the hire them back,if they want to work, at half their original salary.
Miserable ingratiate.
"
You're very angry with everyone and everything for some reason.
They work hard, they save people's lives for a living working long hours whilst understaffed and working more than their hours.
It's a shame that your experience of the NHS has been so poor. If your interactions with them are as brutal as the opinions that you reflect on here, then there might be a solution. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"A number of nurses are on Tik Tok and are opening boasting about their agency pay and posting photographs of their pay slips . One grossed at least £17000 in a month for a realitively small number of days.
No they didn't. If it were possible for a nurse to get £17,000 in a month, they'd all be working just 3 months of the year, and spending the rest of their time in Barbados.
If you want anyone to believe that, you're going to have to prove it.
Log on to Tik Tok. @medwithmo. or phabphamasis or yaa ogeema
A quick Google around shows me that the person claiming £17,000 in a month is a doctor, not a nurse ('influencer' @medwithmo). The agencies pay a maximum of £60 per hour for doctors, so £17,000 is about 290 hours. Possible to manage in a month, but that's a hectic full-on month, not "a relatively small number of days".. It looks like you are unaware of the break glass contingency scenarios in which Trusts can pay more such as when there is a risk of not being able to provide a safe service. Without knowing the charge per hour you would be unable to calculate how many hours they worked.
They wouldn’t need to if pay and conditions were good enough to attract enough new nurses and doctors and then retain them. NHS lost 34,000 nurses in past year. NHS has 133,000 vacancies.
And how many of the 34,000 lat left are back working on Agency on more money and more flexibility. Less pension.
But the pension has been reduced since 2008 as mentioned above.
And where are they going to find 133,000 vacancies some will need to do a degree first.
I spoke with an immigrant waiting on his permission to stay . Both he and his wife have been waiting 18 months for a decision but are not allowed to work.
They are both senior technical nurses.
Why do we have these people waiting ?
Out of the 120k waiting how many could be put to work instantly? This coupled with simple free visas for workers we need would definitely help,
Instead we pay private companies millions to find hotels for immigrants we can’t process .
Ridiculous !!
All applicants for medical work in the NHS need to pass a specialised English exam, so not always as black and white as first seems
One of the biggest problems that I see, is the availability of housing stock. In my town, we have three hotels full of asylum seekers. They have been there for over a year now. The average wait for a single man requiring a council house in this town is 43 years!
Ukrainians are being asked for 6 months rent up front to rent somewhere. Some are being asked to supply a UK host rent guarantor.
We are building houses on every available space in this county. Trouble is, the vast majority are high end homes, and not social housing.
If we are asking NHS to work long hours under pressure, should we also not be asking our civil service to step up and get these claims through quicker?
A very large number of foreign medical staff, engineers and all sorts of other professions are trained in English.
What's the bet that there is a bottleneck in language testing after the bottleneck in immigration processing rather than there being a problem with the language.
We are not building houses on every available space. Brown field sites lie underdeveloped because they cost much more to build on. Low rent areas where hiding is most needed is also left because there's not enough money in it. Nice Greenfield sites out of town attract a nice fat premium though.
You think the civil service are sitting around with their feet up with lots of excess capacity?
Power game. All by design.
So the masses cock fight and kill eachother.
Master plan at work. Even so as we sleep at night! "
I certainly think that property and building companies seem to have a vice-like grip on Government policy.
Divide and conquer has always been a way of retaining power. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out. . Maybe you need to examine the pay structure of nurses . With an average salary of £34000 they are hardly on the poverty line. There are many more deserving causes . You make no mention as to how you propose to fund increased pay.
Socialists are always good at spending someone else’s money
But eventually they run out of other people's money. IMF 1976? Labour's Liam Byrne and his parting note 2010?
"
Was it a Labour government that initiated the spending that led to massive inflation preceding the need for an IMF loan, or was it a Conservative one?
How quickly was the loan paid off?
What should the Labour party not have spent money on after the 2008 financial crisis ?
This Government is in even more debt. What should they not have spent money on, other than payments to their friends for unusable PPE and an equally terrible track and trace app? |
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"It’s good to see Nurses fighting for better pay, which they deserve after the years of shit they have had to put up with.
Even right leaning people say they should get pay, so why isn’t the tory government still not sorting this out.
Listen man, they didn't miss a beat during covid. They got pay,sick psy,holiday pay,pension pay...the private sector, which pays them, got hammered.
These whining fuks are the reason we are bankrupt.
I fukin hate the state sector. Entitled lazy fuks, where there is no mechanism for failure.
My experience of the nhs is dire.
I'm sick of this hero worship of the state.
Join the real world and work without idiots clapping and banging pots and pans.
I'd sack them the hire them back,if they want to work, at half their original salary.
Miserable ingratiate.
"
Nurses should join the real world?
Is caring for people and saving lives make believe or something?
What an utterly moronic post. Sack them and hire them back in half their original salary? A starting salary is 27000. So you'd have them on 13500 after 3 years at uni?
Do you realise how utterly absurd and quite frankly disgusting you sound with your drivel directed at some of the most vital workers a civilised society can have? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In fairness, NHS staff got more of a pay rise last year than the rest of the public sector. Ironically more than the armed forces who backfilled loads of NHS stuff during COVID and now backfill the strikers.
There aren’t many people who don’t work hard so that’s not an argument for striking.
As a healthcare professional I genuinely don’t see how anyone in frontline health delivery can strike from a moral point of view. The only people who suffer as a result are patients. I have seen this over the past couple of strike days. It’s not like a factory where the bosses lose money if the factory workers strike - the bosses get the same money but patients lose out. It’s not right. |
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"In fairness, NHS staff got more of a pay rise last year than the rest of the public sector. Ironically more than the armed forces who backfilled loads of NHS stuff during COVID and now backfill the strikers.
There aren’t many people who don’t work hard so that’s not an argument for striking.
As a healthcare professional I genuinely don’t see how anyone in frontline health delivery can strike from a moral point of view. The only people who suffer as a result are patients. I have seen this over the past couple of strike days. It’s not like a factory where the bosses lose money if the factory workers strike - the bosses get the same money but patients lose out. It’s not right. "
And that's attitude that has got nurses to where they are now. If they'd stood up for themselves years ago rather than accepting the crap they were given then the country wouldn't be where it is now. There comes a time when even nurses have to put themselves first as believe it or not all this vocational angel nonsense is just that, nonsense. Nurses are there to pay their bills same as everyone and it's become increasingly more difficult to do that under this Tory government. Granted it's become more difficult for everyone but everyone should be rising to fight it rather than decrying those who have risen. |
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