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More Brexit winning...ahem
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
According to The Observer...
The first major free trade agreement signed by Britain after Brexit, that Liz Truss called a “historic” deal with Japan, has been branded a failure after new figures showed exports had fallen since it came into force.
 so much winning!! |
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Every single thing. All of them. Utter fucking disaster. Billions and billions and billions of pounds thrown away. More money than ordinary people can even conceive of. For nothing. For less than nothing. Money spent with the explicit result of making 99.5% of the people in this country poorer. If all the brexit money had just been piled up and set fire to, instead of using for brexit, then we would all be better off now. Money spent to make you poorer, to make your children poorer, to make your grandchildren poorer. The uk will never, ever, be in as good an economic position as it was before brexit. Not in ten years. Not in fifty years. Not in a hundred years. Never. |
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"Make brexit work". There is no way to make fucking brexit work. This is like saying "make sawing your own legs off into a good thing". If it was possible in any way to make brexit work, it would be working now. More money has been spent on brexit than any other political fuck up in the history of the universe.
How to make brexit work? Get a time machine, go back and give condoms to the fathers of Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Truss and about five hundred others.
Make brexit work? Cannot be done. Will never be done. |
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""Make brexit work". There is no way to make fucking brexit work. This is like saying "make sawing your own legs off into a good thing". If it was possible in any way to make brexit work, it would be working now. More money has been spent on brexit than any other political fuck up in the history of the universe.
How to make brexit work? Get a time machine, go back and give condoms to the fathers of Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Truss and about five hundred others.
Make brexit work? Cannot be done. Will never be done."
You won't be voting Labour then |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I thought it said More Brexit Whining 
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions. "
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours. |
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"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions. "
Oh grow up….Brexit is a shit show and even the BBC are admitting that if we get as far as a trade deal with India and the US we will still be 35 billion quid pa worse off than we were in Europe.
Everything is more shit now than it was before we left and all that world beating little Englander crap you are buying into is just nonsense. Maybe you are sitting on a pile of cash that will see you through till your end but my kids and many of my friends kids have a shittier future because of the flag waving Brexiteers!  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work""
We are stuck with this so do have to get on with it.
The difference is that he didn't pretend that it would good.
Your Conservative party which you have finally given up on, and who's leaders and influencers who have brought us here, did. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work""
Perhaps he is trying to ensure those areas that changed from Labour to conservative due to bexit will return to Labour. He also changed on migration recently. That might be for the same reason |
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"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions. "
I assume this is a pisstake?
But there are people out there who believe this kind of nonsense. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
A serious subject but it's amusing that a few years ago every post that suggested brexit was bad was pounced on by dozens of brexiteer fans denouncing remoamers and how beneficial brexit would be.
They're all gone ........ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
Oh grow up….Brexit is a shit show and even the BBC are admitting that if we get as far as a trade deal with India and the US we will still be 35 billion quid pa worse off than we were in Europe.
Everything is more shit now than it was before we left and all that world beating little Englander crap you are buying into is just nonsense. Maybe you are sitting on a pile of cash that will see you through till your end but my kids and many of my friends kids have a shittier future because of the flag waving Brexiteers! "
Sorry I didn't understand a word of that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours."
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one."
Then you don't seem to understand that there were economic consequences to our decision and that people did not vote on a "constitutional" matter. They voted on how they thought it would change their daily lives.
Pretending that the arguments about economic and immigration matters were not relevant nor had any influence or the campaign or the results is to be a liar. |
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"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one."
There are dire economic impacts of leaving the EU. Which have been forced on the country by the people who voted leave. |
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"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
Oh grow up….Brexit is a shit show and even the BBC are admitting that if we get as far as a trade deal with India and the US we will still be 35 billion quid pa worse off than we were in Europe.
Everything is more shit now than it was before we left and all that world beating little Englander crap you are buying into is just nonsense. Maybe you are sitting on a pile of cash that will see you through till your end but my kids and many of my friends kids have a shittier future because of the flag waving Brexiteers!
Sorry I didn't understand a word of that."
Oh dear….you really must be living in a parallel universe if you can’t get your head around how genuinely terrible the economic effect of Brexit is! As for constitutional choice….how do you equate that with the lies the general public were fed about taking back control? If you believe it was about taking back control then your understanding of how trade and international standards work is myopic to say the least and how is migration legal or otherwise working for us now we are out of the EU? I mean to me the concept of bringing Pilipino pork butchers to the UK at vast expense because we can’t have EU butchers doing the job anymore just seems pathetic. Winning at life lmao!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one.
There are dire economic impacts of leaving the EU. Which have been forced on the country by the people who voted leave."
democracy at its best |
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"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one.
There are dire economic impacts of leaving the EU. Which have been forced on the country by the people who voted leave. democracy at its best "
Lol
Indeed |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions. "
I doubt membership of the EEC caused those things but that's a guess on my part. I did find out the UK joined in 1973 but no other data |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
We are stuck with this so do have to get on with it.
The difference is that he didn't pretend that it would good.
Your Conservative party which you have finally given up on, and who's leaders and influencers who have brought us here, did."
Deal with the present |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?"
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it "
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea? |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?"
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
2016: £350m a week for the NHS
2022: £50 to get a GP appointment
We were warned by John Major in 2016: "The NHS is about as safe with them (Brexiteers) as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python." |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking "
I haven't not accepted brexit. It's happened.
Personally, I don't think SKS will be next PM. I can't see the Tories losing the next GE. He's only saying what he's saying about Brexit because he wants to win back red wall voters.
So not sure why if SKS says something, I should agree with him. Seems a bit of a random premise.
"Positive thinking" is all well and good, but while people still think brexit is a good idea, how are we supposed to move forward and start to try to mitigate against the ongoing damage it's doing? Having our politicians pretending Brexit is a good idea for fear of losing voters is a fucking ridiculous place for the country to be. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it "
Get on with what ?
How can we win ?
What does a successful brexit look like and when will I see any benefit ?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one."
Britain doesn't have a codified constitution so Brexit was not a constitutional decision. Furthermore as the referendum was an advisory one, there was no legal obligation for the government to uphold the result. The thing has been a mess from day one and Keir Starmer seems to have no clue how to address the problems it's caused other than to repeat ad infinitum that the Labour Party will make it work. Good luck with that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This government no longer has the luxury of being beholden to the brexit ultras in their party. If they have the balls they should be joining the European Free Trade Association.
We need security, we need growth, we need a strong economy.
Brexit wasn’t supposed to be hard, time to put pressure on the government , talk to EFTA and get our economy growing again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I thought it said More Brexit Whining
It's odd that people still don't grasp that Brexit was a Constitutional change, nothing more or less, to leave the EU. Any and every economic option remains and I'm sure in the years to come these will evolve in many ways.
After the UK joined the then EEC we had at least ten years of high inflation, mass unemployment and steep industrial decline. Was it because of our membership? Mostly no, and like then our current economic troubles will be dealt with or not by our own decisions.
UK trade with Japan has fallen since Brexit regardless of a new trade deal because the UK had been seen as the gateway to the EU. In fact our trade has fallen more steeply than those of EU countries with Japan.
We had any number of Brexits to choose from. One was remaining in the European Economic Area where we could have retained that position.
We made a choice not to and are "enjoying" the benefits of the hardest possible version. We can renegotiate as we wish, but there will be a price to pay that will cost us more than when we were a key member.
However, as an isolated country we no longer fulfill that role? They will just sell some stuff to us and we will sell some stuff to them on a transactional basis with no particularly deep links. No longer any reason to invest here.
So, instead of some more recycled sound bites why not explain why you think this situation exists and how it can be resolved.
Your economic "analysis" of what EEC and EU membership means is empty. The point is that buying and selling and investing seamlessly with our wealthy and very close neighbours reduces costs to UK businesses and allows us to be a route in for international companies to access a vastly bigger market. That makes all of the negative economics outcomes slightly less negative. "Slightly" is worth many billions at the scale of a country like ours.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not even understand what the 2016 referendum was - a Constitutional decision, not an economic one.
There are dire economic impacts of leaving the EU. Which have been forced on the country by the people who voted leave. democracy at its best "
Stupidity at its worst |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking "
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done."
This about sums Starmer up, no less an opportunistic weasel than Johnson. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
"He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done."
This about sums Starmer up, no less an opportunistic weasel than Johnson."
I thought all politicians were the same? , Starmer has realised that lying will get him elected, we get the MPs and the government we deserve |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I won't say most, but many people voted Brexit because they thought it would stop immigration. I wonder how they feel now.
They probably don’t care because they won "
What did they win exactly? Besides a blue passport that they could have had anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They did won fair and square, look at it, so much winning!
Until we get out of the grip of the tories we are never going to have a competent brexit, based on common sense and sensible policies. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
The Briefing Room on our trade deals.
All the chaos and division and cost for "meh"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001fd26?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
Of course, some seem to believe Brexit was nothing about trade immigration or the economy in any way... |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done "
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept "
What's he lying about? |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept
What's he lying about?"
Pretended to accept Brexit. Your words |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept "
I didn’t vote for labour in the last 2 elections and it’s unlikely I will vote for them in 2025, why are you getting so angry |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept
What's he lying about?
Pretended to accept Brexit. Your words"
My words, |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept
What's he lying about?
Pretended to accept Brexit. Your words"
SKS is pretending that the brexit clusterfuck is a good idea. Presumably to try to win back Labour voters who still think Brexit is a good idea.
It's a pathetic state of affairs for the country to be in, our politicians have to pretend they can polish a turd for fear of losing votes. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept
What's he lying about?
Pretended to accept Brexit. Your words"
Actually, no. Not my words.
"let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
Your quote.
That's not saying that it's a good idea.
It's saying that Brexit is what the country voted for and therefore wants. True or false?
It's saying that we have to make Brexit work as we have no other choice. True or false?
It doesn't say that it's a good idea. True or false? |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept
What's he lying about?
Pretended to accept Brexit. Your words
SKS is pretending that the brexit clusterfuck is a good idea. Presumably to try to win back Labour voters who still think Brexit is a good idea.
It's a pathetic state of affairs for the country to be in, our politicians have to pretend they can polish a turd for fear of losing votes."
If he is pretending then that's a worry as Labour are the only realistic option to the Tories. Swapping a lying snake for another lying snake is not appealing |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Brexit added £210 to household food bills, LSE says
As ever, difficult to separate completely, but far from a win. Mainly due to the opposite of removing red tape.
We are stuck with Brexit so can someone make it work? Boosterism and cakeism are proving to not be a working plan.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63821133#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16699259458449&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com |
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"Brexit added £210 to household food bills, LSE says
As ever, difficult to separate completely, but far from a win. Mainly due to the opposite of removing red tape.
We are stuck with Brexit so can someone make it work? Boosterism and cakeism are proving to not be a working plan.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63821133#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16699259458449&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com"
Brexit is an ideology. The implementation is the failing and that's down to a Tory govt |
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"SKS states "let's get on with what the country wants. Face the future, seize the opportunities Britain has and make Brexit work"
What's this got to do with the brexit clusterfuck?
We aren't going back, stop whinging and get on with it
I agree we're unlikely to go back, and even if we did, it wouldn't undo most of the damage done.
What's this got to do with SKS? And why shouldn't we be allowed to point out "told you so" to all the people who voted for brexit and who still think it was a good idea?
SKS is the likely leader of the next govt as well you know. He's accepted Brexit, so should you. You're allowed to point out what you like but live in the present, not the past. How about some positive thinking
He has pretended to accept Brexit to increase his chances of getting elected, just like Boris pretended he would get Brexit done
Oh so it's ok for your man to lie but not anyone else? Do you realise how pathetic you sound? The fact is that Labour under SKS is closer to the Tories than you want to accept
What's he lying about?
Pretended to accept Brexit. Your words
SKS is pretending that the brexit clusterfuck is a good idea. Presumably to try to win back Labour voters who still think Brexit is a good idea.
It's a pathetic state of affairs for the country to be in, our politicians have to pretend they can polish a turd for fear of losing votes.
If he is pretending then that's a worry as Labour are the only realistic option to the Tories. Swapping a lying snake for another lying snake is not appealing"
Yes it's a shocking situation for the country to be in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Brexit added £210 to household food bills, LSE says
As ever, difficult to separate completely, but far from a win. Mainly due to the opposite of removing red tape.
We are stuck with Brexit so can someone make it work? Boosterism and cakeism are proving to not be a working plan.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63821133#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16699259458449&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
Brexit is an ideology. The implementation is the failing and that's down to a Tory govt "
failing was always a risk. A risk leave voters were willing to take. That doesn't mean yr decision was wrong per se. Presumably you factored in failure when making your decision ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Brexit added £210 to household food bills, LSE says
As ever, difficult to separate completely, but far from a win. Mainly due to the opposite of removing red tape.
We are stuck with Brexit so can someone make it work? Boosterism and cakeism are proving to not be a working plan.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63821133#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16699259458449&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
Brexit is an ideology. The implementation is the failing and that's down to a Tory govt "
You voted for the Brexit that you, and the rest of us, have.
You voted for something imaginary in your head. You got reality. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure. "
We have suffered the consequences of Brexit since 2016.
The markets and companies started delivering their verdict at that point.
You can look at all of the graphs compared to our neighbours.
As there was no definition of what Brexit means we have got a meaningless outcome free of benefits and full of consequences. |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure. "
Always amuses me when people refer to “it’s rules” (others talk about rules being imposed on the UK etc).
WE MADE THE RULES.
As a member of the EU, with the 2nd biggest economy and most powerful military, the UK had huge influence (and a special position outside the Euro and Schengen) on all rules and legislation that was developed.
99% of the rules suited the UK. Were of benefit to the UK. We wanted, help draft and approved these rules.
Nobody was forcing the UK to do anything regardless of what the Brexit supporting media would have you believe.
Was it perfect, no! What relationship is? Was there some compromise, yes! That is what makes for a successful relationship! Did the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, most definitely!
Numpties! |
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"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure. "
Or you can look at the real consequences of what leaving the EU has had on British businesses and the economy.
I do enjoy the implication that it's only rational people still hanging on to the brexit dream despite brexit being a huge stinking turd. |
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I'll admit I didn't have a clue what the true meaning of brexit meant. So I voted to remain on the basis I could see that reea mogg, Johnson, farage and the like are all self serving walkers. Now that I know what brexit means and what it has done to this country I'm proud to say I'm a remainer. There are no benefits to brexit. Not one single one. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure. "
What will success look like ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll admit I didn't have a clue what the true meaning of brexit meant. So I voted to remain on the basis I could see that reea mogg, Johnson, farage and the like are all self serving walkers. Now that I know what brexit means and what it has done to this country I'm proud to say I'm a remainer. There are no benefits to brexit. Not one single one. "
TBF there isn't one true meaning of Brexit.
There were many ways Brexit could have turned out. Some more likely than others. Farage et al painted on version. Remain painted another.
Likewise there are many ways staying in the EU could have turned out. It is possible (albeit imo very unlikely) the EU ends up with an army. It's also possible it doesnt.
Unless you voted for very ideological reason (eg autonmy and hang the expense) we should have been looking at all options, working out the likelihood and seeing which, on balance, have a better result.
As a whole we didn't. Thats not how we tend to look at decisions. And this is on both sides... Because the fact we have a ahiy brexit doesnt, in itself, mean leave was the wrong decision. If 999 versiona of bexit was great, and 9999 versiona of staying in the EU was pants, the face we managed to hit the one poor version of brexit wouldnt have made leave a bad decision.
I thought the chances of a good Brexit was low. Hence voting remain. But I didn't anticipate the clusterfuck of Boris and Truss. While that works in my favour, I should also reflect there may have been other ways that would have proved me wrong. |
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"I'll admit I didn't have a clue what the true meaning of brexit meant. So I voted to remain on the basis I could see that reea mogg, Johnson, farage and the like are all self serving walkers. Now that I know what brexit means and what it has done to this country I'm proud to say I'm a remainer. There are no benefits to brexit. Not one single one. TBF there isn't one true meaning of Brexit.
There were many ways Brexit could have turned out. Some more likely than others. Farage et al painted on version. Remain painted another.
Likewise there are many ways staying in the EU could have turned out. It is possible (albeit imo very unlikely) the EU ends up with an army. It's also possible it doesnt.
Unless you voted for very ideological reason (eg autonmy and hang the expense) we should have been looking at all options, working out the likelihood and seeing which, on balance, have a better result.
As a whole we didn't. Thats not how we tend to look at decisions. And this is on both sides... Because the fact we have a ahiy brexit doesnt, in itself, mean leave was the wrong decision. If 999 versiona of bexit was great, and 9999 versiona of staying in the EU was pants, the face we managed to hit the one poor version of brexit wouldnt have made leave a bad decision.
I thought the chances of a good Brexit was low. Hence voting remain. But I didn't anticipate the clusterfuck of Boris and Truss. While that works in my favour, I should also reflect there may have been other ways that would have proved me wrong. "
Good post.
The only objection is that Farage's version of brexit was not based in any kind of reality. Just baseless promises that crumbled under the lightest of scrutiny. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?"
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent. |
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"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent."
Brexit was neither rational nor intelligent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.
Brexit was neither rational nor intelligent. "
Thanks for your insight |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent."
yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most. |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most. "
The vaccine R&D support, procurement, and roll out were NOT aided by Brexit. It provided zero benefit around Covid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most.
The vaccine R&D support, procurement, and roll out were NOT aided by Brexit. It provided zero benefit around Covid."
arguable we got more vaccines earlier than if we were part of the EU deployment. Now I know we *could* have given alone under the EU, however we'd likely be under pressure not to and join forces. Brexit could be said to have made it easier to go out own way. Its small beer, I agree. I'm trying to be balanced and see other angles. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most. "
I don't want a Covid debate but that's a good example of where positive and negative affects are not easy to foresee or predict. The last few years of Brexit, Trump, Covid and Ukraine should caution us against the chaotic nature of politics and global events. Which is why, to repeat, judging Brexit decisively on 2 or 3 years evidence is neither wise or rational. |
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"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most.
I don't want a Covid debate but that's a good example of where positive and negative affects are not easy to foresee or predict. The last few years of Brexit, Trump, Covid and Ukraine should caution us against the chaotic nature of politics and global events. Which is why, to repeat, judging Brexit decisively on 2 or 3 years evidence is neither wise or rational."
Why can't we judge the direct effects Brexit has had on the British economy and British businesses? |
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"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most.
I don't want a Covid debate but that's a good example of where positive and negative affects are not easy to foresee or predict. The last few years of Brexit, Trump, Covid and Ukraine should caution us against the chaotic nature of politics and global events. Which is why, to repeat, judging Brexit decisively on 2 or 3 years evidence is neither wise or rational.
Why can't we judge the direct effects Brexit has had on the British economy and British businesses?"
We clearly can.
The it’s only been a few years’ or the ‘Government hasn’t delivered the right kind of brexit’ are just the two of the excuses which are now been increasingly rolled out on a weekly basis to excuse the increasing obvious damage they have done to the UK.
Unfortunately many people are stupid enough to believe what they read in The Sun. |
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"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most.
I don't want a Covid debate but that's a good example of where positive and negative affects are not easy to foresee or predict. The last few years of Brexit, Trump, Covid and Ukraine should caution us against the chaotic nature of politics and global events. Which is why, to repeat, judging Brexit decisively on 2 or 3 years evidence is neither wise or rational.
Why can't we judge the direct effects Brexit has had on the British economy and British businesses?
We clearly can.
The it’s only been a few years’ or the ‘Government hasn’t delivered the right kind of brexit’ are just the two of the excuses which are now been increasingly rolled out on a weekly basis to excuse the increasing obvious damage they have done to the UK.
Unfortunately many people are stupid enough to believe what they read in The Sun."
The "it's only been a couple of years" would be a valid argument if there was something we're waiting to happen. But we're not, it's just blind hope. |
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So we have to wait ten years to see Brexit benefits, do we? Yet here we are seeing rising costs and reduced trade with some pretty insignificant trade deals and the Paris Bourse surpassing the Stock Exchange in value of trades so I am still wondering if the Emperors new clothes are as threadbare as the promises of cheaper everything not to mention the fundamental lack of investment in agriculture, communities infrastructure etc (Gosh, how much money did the EU pump into deprived areas of Wales and Cornwall etc?)
The whole thing was an experiment in the undermining of democracy by selling the lie that the EU were unaccountable and fleecing the UK , which was sold to us by the people who needed to provide an enemy to justify their corrupt and venal behaviour. Public school has a lot to answer for! |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I hope some people have asked Santa for a dictionary this Christmas.
Perhaps some people should ask Santa for wide vision goggles instead of keeping their old blinkers on"
Santa isn’t coming. He is from Finland so with the loss of FoM he needs a visa but will probably get shot down by the RAF as an illegal! |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The UK was 46 years in the EEC/EU. We've had just under two years outside it's rules, coinciding with an global epidemic and European war. I think a rational, intelligent person might perhaps wait a touch longer before reaching any firm conclusions about its success or failure.
What will success look like ?
I guess that will vary depending on your priorities, and will also depend on the direction taken by the EU. And on global events. Which is why any decisive assesment on Brexit before at least ten years has passed (2029) is neither rational or intelligent.yes and no. I agree we shouldnt draw an overall conclusion to soon. We can seek to observe over the ten years. Tot up where brexit has helped. Where it hasn't. Eg at the time vaccines were seen as ebing a win. In the long run it was a minor win at most.
The vaccine R&D support, procurement, and roll out were NOT aided by Brexit. It provided zero benefit around Covid.arguable we got more vaccines earlier than if we were part of the EU deployment. Now I know we *could* have given alone under the EU, however we'd likely be under pressure not to and join forces. Brexit could be said to have made it easier to go out own way. Its small beer, I agree. I'm trying to be balanced and see other angles. "
Not arguing but “Likely” and “could” doing some heavy lifting there. I mean we “could” have used our influence to speed up a joint EU procurement. We “likely” could have forced all manner of concessions. Who knows? The fact remains that nothing about Brexit enabled a faster Covid response. However, I see that you are trying to be fair and attempt to find a benefit (it cost JRM his job). |
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"I hope some people have asked Santa for a dictionary this Christmas.
Perhaps some people should ask Santa for wide vision goggles instead of keeping their old blinkers on"
lol instead of a bucket of sand to bury their head in which is what I think a lot of people have been asking santa for previously! |
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""Make brexit work". There is no way to make fucking brexit work. This is like saying "make sawing your own legs off into a good thing". If it was possible in any way to make brexit work, it would be working now. More money has been spent on brexit than any other political fuck up in the history of the universe.
How to make brexit work? Get a time machine, go back and give condoms to the fathers of Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Truss and about five hundred others.
Make brexit work? Cannot be done. Will never be done."
So, not too much of a fan of Brexit then. |
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""Make brexit work". There is no way to make fucking brexit work. This is like saying "make sawing your own legs off into a good thing". If it was possible in any way to make brexit work, it would be working now. More money has been spent on brexit than any other political fuck up in the history of the universe.
How to make brexit work? Get a time machine, go back and give condoms to the fathers of Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Truss and about five hundred others.
Make brexit work? Cannot be done. Will never be done.
So, not too much of a fan of Brexit then. "
I thought that I gave a very fair and balanced judgement |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope some people have asked Santa for a dictionary this Christmas.
Perhaps some people should ask Santa for wide vision goggles instead of keeping their old blinkers on
Santa isn’t coming. He is from Finland so with the loss of FoM he needs a visa but will probably get shot down by the RAF as an illegal!"
should come over on a boat then he will be welcomed |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I hope some people have asked Santa for a dictionary this Christmas.
Perhaps some people should ask Santa for wide vision goggles instead of keeping their old blinkers on
Santa isn’t coming. He is from Finland so with the loss of FoM he needs a visa but will probably get shot down by the RAF as an illegal! should come over on a boat then he will be welcomed "
Get real, he won’t be able to deliver many presents in a dinghy! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope some people have asked Santa for a dictionary this Christmas.
Is this a dig at people who understand the impacts of brexit also making typos?"
Its an observation on people who don't understand the word 'decisive'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So the argument that it's a failure is based solely on exports being down and this fact alone is bad as people expect more trade after laving the EU?
Another take would be to look at it as a free trade agreement has been confirmed and setup, which is good news. There is a global economic downturn at the moment and in Japan specifically they certainly are exporting less cars than they used to. This could very well impact the kind of products they are importing over the year so far.
Not taking sides one way or the other, just pointing out there is more to this than the media perspective which sounds like; 'numbers down, Brexit bad, derp!' |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So the argument that it's a failure is based solely on exports being down and this fact alone is bad as people expect more trade after laving the EU?
Another take would be to look at it as a free trade agreement has been confirmed and setup, which is good news. There is a global economic downturn at the moment and in Japan specifically they certainly are exporting less cars than they used to. This could very well impact the kind of products they are importing over the year so far.
Not taking sides one way or the other, just pointing out there is more to this than the media perspective which sounds like; 'numbers down, Brexit bad, derp!' "
The argument is that costs have risen and exports to a huge, nearby and wealthy economy have fallen. This have particularly effected small companies for whom any international trade is challenging with or without free trade deals.
The Government's own assessments of the new trade deals struck that they are slightly negative or marginally positive over many years to the UK economy but not even slightly on the scale of EU trade falls.
With respect to Japan, their investment in the UK has collapsed because we are no longer an easy route to the EU.
There was never a strong economic argument for Brexit. The main benefit, as argued by many posters, was the "independence" from the EU regardless of the economic consequences. Also an expectation that there would be no economic consequences as "they need us more than we need them".
It depends on which bespoke version of Brexit each individual voted for. |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"So the argument that it's a failure is based solely on exports being down and this fact alone is bad as people expect more trade after laving the EU?
Another take would be to look at it as a free trade agreement has been confirmed and setup, which is good news. There is a global economic downturn at the moment and in Japan specifically they certainly are exporting less cars than they used to. This could very well impact the kind of products they are importing over the year so far.
Not taking sides one way or the other, just pointing out there is more to this than the media perspective which sounds like; 'numbers down, Brexit bad, derp!'
The argument is that costs have risen and exports to a huge, nearby and wealthy economy have fallen. This have particularly effected small companies for whom any international trade is challenging with or without free trade deals.
The Government's own assessments of the new trade deals struck that they are slightly negative or marginally positive over many years to the UK economy but not even slightly on the scale of EU trade falls.
With respect to Japan, their investment in the UK has collapsed because we are no longer an easy route to the EU.
There was never a strong economic argument for Brexit. The main benefit, as argued by many posters, was the "independence" from the EU regardless of the economic consequences. Also an expectation that there would be no economic consequences as "they need us more than we need them".
It depends on which bespoke version of Brexit each individual voted for. "
I’ve never really understood the whole “sovereignty” or “independence from EU” arguments. I get the sentiment and the romantic notion that the UK had somehow abdicated the reigns of governing the UK and that we could regain our glory days by moving away from this terrible institution called the EU! Except...
1) It ignored that the UK had complete autonomy on foreign policy (war in Iraq is one example).
2) It ignored that we could control our borders had we wanted to (as not in Schengen).
3) It ignored that the UK had autonomy over our govt finances as we were not part of the Euro.
4) It ignored that the EU did not impose any laws, regulations, or standards on the UK. We co-authored and developed all legislation as a member. Our position as second biggest economy, most powerful military, and reputation/influence internationally meant that we had far more ability to influence legislation than anyone except possibly Germany.
Were there some compromises? Sure! There are in any relationships. But we had all the independence and sovereignty needed to operate globally and be part of a huge trading bloc! |
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"So the argument that it's a failure is based solely on exports being down and this fact alone is bad as people expect more trade after laving the EU?
Another take would be to look at it as a free trade agreement has been confirmed and setup, which is good news. There is a global economic downturn at the moment and in Japan specifically they certainly are exporting less cars than they used to. This could very well impact the kind of products they are importing over the year so far.
Not taking sides one way or the other, just pointing out there is more to this than the media perspective which sounds like; 'numbers down, Brexit bad, derp!'
The argument is that costs have risen and exports to a huge, nearby and wealthy economy have fallen. This have particularly effected small companies for whom any international trade is challenging with or without free trade deals.
The Government's own assessments of the new trade deals struck that they are slightly negative or marginally positive over many years to the UK economy but not even slightly on the scale of EU trade falls.
With respect to Japan, their investment in the UK has collapsed because we are no longer an easy route to the EU.
There was never a strong economic argument for Brexit. The main benefit, as argued by many posters, was the "independence" from the EU regardless of the economic consequences. Also an expectation that there would be no economic consequences as "they need us more than we need them".
It depends on which bespoke version of Brexit each individual voted for.
I’ve never really understood the whole “sovereignty” or “independence from EU” arguments. I get the sentiment and the romantic notion that the UK had somehow abdicated the reigns of governing the UK and that we could regain our glory days by moving away from this terrible institution called the EU! Except...
1) It ignored that the UK had complete autonomy on foreign policy (war in Iraq is one example).
2) It ignored that we could control our borders had we wanted to (as not in Schengen).
3) It ignored that the UK had autonomy over our govt finances as we were not part of the Euro.
4) It ignored that the EU did not impose any laws, regulations, or standards on the UK. We co-authored and developed all legislation as a member. Our position as second biggest economy, most powerful military, and reputation/influence internationally meant that we had far more ability to influence legislation than anyone except possibly Germany.
Were there some compromises? Sure! There are in any relationships. But we had all the independence and sovereignty needed to operate globally and be part of a huge trading bloc!"
And now we have none of those. Given away for a pocketful of magic beans... |
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