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London now a battle zone?
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " Battle zone? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " Who was involved? Which communities? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " Nobody knows, because there haven't been any "gun battles". Whyever would you choose use such emotive language? Are you trying to generate as much fear, anger and negative emotions as you can? What's the motivation behind that? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Who was involved? Which communities?" I am more concerned about London being a ‘battle zone’ I have friends down there, they never mentioned this,  | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea?" I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " I think the guardian reported a gun battle fairly recently. Also one yesterday. Is it these you refer to? | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread " No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet?" Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news,  | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news, "I know, shocking isn’t it? Not too long ago any shooting in the UK would have been front page news. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? I think the guardian reported a gun battle fairly recently. Also one yesterday. Is it these you refer to?" Yes - Ilford, Brixton, Dagenham. To name a few | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news,
I know, shocking isn’t it? Not too long ago any shooting in the UK would have been front page news."How many people have been killed in this battle zone? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? I think the guardian reported a gun battle fairly recently. Also one yesterday. Is it these you refer to? Yes - Ilford, Brixton, Dagenham. To name a few " Scary, and these places are now a battle zone? Do you think the government will deploy the army ?  | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news,
I know, shocking isn’t it? Not too long ago any shooting in the UK would have been front page news.
How many people have been killed in this battle zone? "Difficult to say as a cold blooded shooting or stabbing gets counted as homicide which includes manslaughter . Total is 86 so far this year. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? I think the guardian reported a gun battle fairly recently. Also one yesterday. Is it these you refer to? Yes - Ilford, Brixton, Dagenham. To name a few " I see the Ilford and brixton ones. 4 dead in a week from those two incidents. Hopefully it will calm down | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news,
I know, shocking isn’t it? Not too long ago any shooting in the UK would have been front page news.
How many people have been killed in this battle zone?
Difficult to say as a cold blooded shooting or stabbing gets counted as homicide which includes manslaughter . Total is 86 so far this year."In the London battle zone in the last 7 days? | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news,
I know, shocking isn’t it? Not too long ago any shooting in the UK would have been front page news.
How many people have been killed in this battle zone?
Difficult to say as a cold blooded shooting or stabbing gets counted as homicide which includes manslaughter . Total is 86 so far this year.
In the London battle zone in the last 7 days?"Just a few. I know you like to downplay numbers. | |||
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"If the question is, is there a reason behind the increased incidence of gun crime in the UK, the answer is unknown by me. Do you have any idea? I think Seb is on the wind up again , I can’t see him returning to this thread No ‘wind up’ at all. Should we brush this sort of thing under the carpet? Definitely not, if London is a ‘battle zone’ then I was expecting more coverage on the news,
I know, shocking isn’t it? Not too long ago any shooting in the UK would have been front page news.
How many people have been killed in this battle zone?
Difficult to say as a cold blooded shooting or stabbing gets counted as homicide which includes manslaughter . Total is 86 so far this year.
In the London battle zone in the last 7 days?
Just a few. I know you like to downplay numbers.
"Not at all, sounds terrible, we used to have a lot of gun violence in Manchester but thankfully it was never a battle zone and it isn’t a huge problem anymore | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? " A battle zone? | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? A battle zone? " An area where a battle is being fought, the road in Brixton resembled a battle zone from the images I have seen. But I did mention, put the name of the thread to one side, it is a trigger | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? A battle zone? " Some say ‘war zone’ You seem more bothered in semantics than in the actual problem. Or maybe you don’t see it as a problem? | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? A battle zone? An area where a battle is being fought, the road in Brixton resembled a battle zone from the images I have seen. But I did mention, put the name of the thread to one side, it is a trigger "Ah, fair enough, it is a terrible situation, hopefully the police can sort it out  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? A battle zone? Some say ‘war zone’ You seem more bothered in semantics than in the actual problem. Or maybe you don’t see it as a problem? " It is a problem, hopefully the police can sort it out | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? " There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this?" The decrease in police numbers won’t have helped | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this?" This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? The decrease in police numbers won’t have helped " It’s only reduced by a few | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? The decrease in police numbers won’t have helped It’s only reduced by a few" Do you know the percentage? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? " I think the increased gun crime and of course the massive increase in stabbings is very worrying indeed. London is my home city and I enjoy regular trips there. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? I think the increased gun crime and of course the massive increase in stabbings is very worrying indeed. London is my home city and I enjoy regular trips there." I love London, probably in my top 5 cities in the world, thankfully I have never been and seen a battle zone | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? I think the increased gun crime and of course the massive increase in stabbings is very worrying indeed. London is my home city and I enjoy regular trips there. I love London, probably in my top 5 cities in the world, thankfully I have never been and seen a battle zone " I’m going to open a shop selling bullet proof vests | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? I think the increased gun crime and of course the massive increase in stabbings is very worrying indeed. London is my home city and I enjoy regular trips there. I love London, probably in my top 5 cities in the world, thankfully I have never been and seen a battle zone I’m going to open a shop selling bullet proof vests" Why? | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? " The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " Another good reason to scrap HS2. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " What do you think is going on? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on?" Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? " True, it is nothing to do with immigration, so what do you think is going on? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? " Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? True, it is nothing to do with immigration, so what do you think is going on? " Nope, I’m struggling- what are your thoughts? I guess it could be Daily Mail reading right wing fanatics as all the shootings are in areas with high levels of immigration. Time will tell I guess. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not?" Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? True, it is nothing to do with immigration, so what do you think is going on? Nope, I’m struggling- what are your thoughts? I guess it could be Daily Mail reading right wing fanatics as all the shootings are in areas with high levels of immigration. Time will tell I guess. " I think it has been ‘going on’ for years relating to gangs, drugs etc, why did you start the thread ? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. " The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people "Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few."Yeah, the majority, how many people were involved in these crimes? | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game." I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? " they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms "Me too, an odd lot indeed. Thanks | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms "Their | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you?" Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. " It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester " My point might have been lost. It isn't the increase alone that is worrying, it is how gun crime is escalating to the streets, with no regard to any innocent who is unfortunate to be caught up in it, Olivia Pratt-Korbel being the most prominent. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester " The Guardian reports that gun crime in the north west is increasing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester My point might have been lost. It isn't the increase alone that is worrying, it is how gun crime is escalating to the streets, with no regard to any innocent who is unfortunate to be caught up in it, Olivia Pratt-Korbel being the most prominent. " Unfortunately, this is nothing new, innocent bystanders have been killed by gun men for decades, | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester The Guardian reports that gun crime in the north west is increasing" Manchester isn’t the north west | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester My point might have been lost. It isn't the increase alone that is worrying, it is how gun crime is escalating to the streets, with no regard to any innocent who is unfortunate to be caught up in it, Olivia Pratt-Korbel being the most prominent. Unfortunately, this is nothing new, innocent bystanders have been killed by gun men for decades, " Do you not agree that those committing gun crime are becoming more blatant in their attacks? | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester My point might have been lost. It isn't the increase alone that is worrying, it is how gun crime is escalating to the streets, with no regard to any innocent who is unfortunate to be caught up in it, Olivia Pratt-Korbel being the most prominent. Unfortunately, this is nothing new, innocent bystanders have been killed by gun men for decades, Do you not agree that those committing gun crime are becoming more blatant in their attacks?" In London? Probably, in Manchester, definitely not | |||
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"How many days can Seb leave it without spewing barely concealed xenophobia and race hate? Endless. " Keep it real. There is no xenophobia or race hate. Concealed or not. And I’m puzzled as to why you think so. | |||
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"How many days can Seb leave it without spewing barely concealed xenophobia and race hate? Endless. Keep it real. There is no xenophobia or race hate. Concealed or not. And I’m puzzled as to why you think so. " You're very often puzzled about this, from many people. | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester My point might have been lost. It isn't the increase alone that is worrying, it is how gun crime is escalating to the streets, with no regard to any innocent who is unfortunate to be caught up in it, Olivia Pratt-Korbel being the most prominent. Unfortunately, this is nothing new, innocent bystanders have been killed by gun men for decades, Do you not agree that those committing gun crime are becoming more blatant in their attacks? In London? Probably, in Manchester, definitely not " NIMBY? | |||
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"How many days can Seb leave it without spewing barely concealed xenophobia and race hate? Endless. Keep it real. There is no xenophobia or race hate. Concealed or not. And I’m puzzled as to why you think so. You're very often puzzled about this, from many people." So you like to say. Lord knows why? No thoughts on rising levels of gun & knife crimes? | |||
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"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. It is going up in London but it has decreased in Manchester My point might have been lost. It isn't the increase alone that is worrying, it is how gun crime is escalating to the streets, with no regard to any innocent who is unfortunate to be caught up in it, Olivia Pratt-Korbel being the most prominent. Unfortunately, this is nothing new, innocent bystanders have been killed by gun men for decades, Do you not agree that those committing gun crime are becoming more blatant in their attacks? In London? Probably, in Manchester, definitely not NIMBY?" DTUS? gun crime tends to be more prevalent during gang feuds, I am sure London is having a huge problem right now but with the right policing (like in Manchester) this can be slowed down or even stopped | |||
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"How many days can Seb leave it without spewing barely concealed xenophobia and race hate? Endless. Keep it real. There is no xenophobia or race hate. Concealed or not. And I’m puzzled as to why you think so. You're very often puzzled about this, from many people. So you like to say. Lord knows why? No thoughts on rising levels of gun & knife crimes? " Until recently greater Manchester had a huge increase in gun crime in Salford | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Putting the name of the post aside for a moment... There does seem to be an escalation of shootings that are getting more and more violent, with members of the public getting caught up in the crossfire. 12 shots being fired, 1 dead from gunfire and one hit by a car is a gun battle in the street, in my opinion, why would it be anything else? There is a significant difference between a shooting and a "gun battle". Shooting - one side armed. Gun battle - two (or more) groups shooting at each other. There was one incident that could be characterised as a gun battle. Certainly nothing like a "battle zone". Those phrases are clearly to cause fear and anger. It doesn't seem to be any indication about what has caused this recent escalation. Are there more weapons? Is there a greater willingness to use them? Has there been an event that has created instability amongst the groups involved? How can anyone offer a solution without knowing any of this? This gun battle, a violent fight between people in which guns are used, was in the a street. A street with people going about their business, which ended with an innocent member of public losing their life. What caused this, criminality, what type, we will find out as the investigation unfolds. Did you find this incident, disturbing? The single "gun battle" is disturbing, as is any increase in gun crime. Have I suggested otherwise? Why do I need to explicitly say that it is a problem? Do you have any information on what has caused this recent spike in incidents? If not, what solution can anyone on this thread or in a position to affect change offer? I understand that many people are more than willing to suggest "solutions" based on very little information and lots of emotion, but I am not. Are you? Does it look like I'm trying to find solutions, I actually said, it was definitely criminality, the type of criminality will be uncovered through the investigation..... I found your opening post played down the impact by focusing on the words used in the OP, you may not have intended that, but it is how it came across, hence my question do you find it disturbing. The bottom line here is, gun crime is going up, but not just going up, it is becoming more blatant in neighbourhoods. I feel there is a shift, a marked shift in hostility and a lack of respect or feelings to anyone who may be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place as it kicks off. The maximum penalty under law should be given to anyone involved in gang shootings / gun battles and life in prison, meaning never being allowed out if a member of the public gets killed. " My opening comment was based on how the information was presented. The OP's reasoning has subsequently becoming clear and for the same reason as always. I do not, actually, know if the shootings being reported now are more blatant than they have been. I'm fortunate not to live in an area where this happens. The one gun fight between two groups certainly does seem new, but is at this stage a very isolated event. I don't know if it is a higher frequency, if they are aiming to wound and kill now rather than intimidate, if it is new areas and between similar groups of people or if something has changed. Is this a statistical anomaly or a new trend? Will the Police get a handle on it quickly? There certainly is something to be said about reduced Police numbers and the loss of experience that has come before. I cannot imagine that there will be any leniency for anyone involved in these sorts of incidents. The British judicial process is very intolerant of these crimes for good reason. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? True, it is nothing to do with immigration, so what do you think is going on? Nope, I’m struggling- what are your thoughts? I guess it could be Daily Mail reading right wing fanatics as all the shootings are in areas with high levels of immigration. Time will tell I guess. " Do you have any information to suggest that these shootings involve immigrants? If not, why bring it up, yet again? | |||
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"Seems that "drill music", (whatever that is), keeps coming up as a common denominator. " What does that mean though? Is it causal or just the music they listen to anyway? They played Mozart in Clockwork Orange... | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few."You can only list a few, because there only are a few. Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population? Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few.
You can only list a few, because there only are a few.
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?"This will trigger Seb but the monsters who killed Lee Rigby are British | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few.
You can only list a few, because there only are a few.
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
This will trigger Seb but the monsters who killed Lee Rigby are British "Doesn’t ‘trigger’ me at all, whatever that really means? Makes me shake my head in despair though | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few.
You can only list a few, because there only are a few.
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
This will trigger Seb but the monsters who killed Lee Rigby are British
Doesn’t ‘trigger’ me at all, whatever that really means?
Makes me shake my head in despair though"It means they are British, | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few.
You can only list a few, because there only are a few.
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
This will trigger Seb but the monsters who killed Lee Rigby are British
Doesn’t ‘trigger’ me at all, whatever that really means?
Makes me shake my head in despair though"Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population? Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few.
You can only list a few, because there only are a few.
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
This will trigger Seb but the monsters who killed Lee Rigby are British
Doesn’t ‘trigger’ me at all, whatever that really means?
Makes me shake my head in despair though
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
"Why on earth do you ask? What type of crime? Burglary - football violence, typically a white British male crime. Violent knife crime in London. Pretty much all Of the victims are non white, so I suspect are the attackers. Or do you know different? | |||
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"How many days can Seb leave it without spewing barely concealed xenophobia and race hate? Endless. Keep it real. There is no xenophobia or race hate. Concealed or not. And I’m puzzled as to why you think so. You're very often puzzled about this, from many people. So you like to say. Lord knows why? No thoughts on rising levels of gun & knife crimes? Until recently greater Manchester had a huge increase in gun crime in Salford "There used to be a lot of gun violence in Manchester but thankfully it was never a battle zone and it isn’t a huge problem anymore | |||
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"How many days can Seb leave it without spewing barely concealed xenophobia and race hate? Endless. Keep it real. There is no xenophobia or race hate. Concealed or not. And I’m puzzled as to why you think so. You're very often puzzled about this, from many people. So you like to say. Lord knows why? No thoughts on rising levels of gun & knife crimes? Until recently greater Manchester had a huge increase in gun crime in Salford
There used to be a lot of gun violence in Manchester but thankfully it was never a battle zone and it isn’t a huge problem anymore"Gun crime | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why do you think that it has something to do with immigration? What information do you have access to that has indicated that it might? Other options have been listed in this thread. Are they equally or more feasible than "immigration" causing an increase in gun crime? Who said that "all" immigrants are good hard-working people? Statistically, what percentage are not? Fabricate - your friend has claimed many times that all immigrants are good honest hard working people. The majority are, just like the majority of British people are good hard working people
Like the guy who set off a car bomb outside a maternity hospital. Or the man in has early twenties posing as 15 at a school in Bournemouth that committed murder. The London Bridge atrocities. Lee Rigby, the Boston killing of a child in the street. Just to list a few.
You can only list a few, because there only are a few.
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
This will trigger Seb but the monsters who killed Lee Rigby are British
Doesn’t ‘trigger’ me at all, whatever that really means?
Makes me shake my head in despair though
Again, what's the percentage of crime commited by immigrants compared to the general population?
Is there, actually, higher levels of criminality in one group or the other?
Why on earth do you ask? What type of crime?
Burglary - football violence, typically a white British male crime.
Violent knife crime in London. Pretty much all
Of the victims are non white, so I suspect are the attackers. Or do you know different? "Because you implied that it had to do with immigrants. If it doesn't, then there is nothing further to discuss on the topic. Equally you do not have any contribution to make to your own tread about what is going on. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " Apparently the gun ban clearly working.  | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working. "Are you still shooting kids dead at school in the US? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working. "Gun ban? Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA. I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion... | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Are you still shooting kids dead at school in the US? "Not according to Alex Jones... | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working. "TBF this gets on our news because it's unusual. There were 12 fatal shootings last year in London. And up until mid July there had been none. I suspect you have sprees bigger than that. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Gun ban?
Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA.
I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion..."Not all guns are illegal, nor is ownership illegal in the UK. We don't have the access to the range of firearms that the US public have but, you can own a shotgun as an example, with the relevant license. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Are you still shooting kids dead at school in the US? "Tad bit angry are you ? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Gun ban?
Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA.
I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion..."Apparently criminals still can access them surely you not that blind.  | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " Cultural enrichment. Enjoy! | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? " Are you sure? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Gun ban?
Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA.
I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion...
Not all guns are illegal, nor is ownership illegal in the UK. We don't have the access to the range of firearms that the US public have but, you can own a shotgun as an example, with the relevant license."Fair enough, but hardly widespread and rather vigorously licenced with a pretty limited rate of fire. None of the weapons used in these crimes were licensed or legal. There really aren't that many of them around. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Are you still shooting kids dead at school in the US? Tad bit angry are you ?"I'd be angry if children were being shot. Are you not? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Gun ban?
Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA.
I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion... Apparently criminals still can access them surely you not that blind. "Sadly they can. Not very many weapons and not very many have access to them. Thankfully. More criminals with access to more weapons in the US, I believe. True? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Gun ban?
Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA.
I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion... Apparently criminals still can access them surely you not that blind.
Sadly they can. Not very many weapons and not very many have access to them. Thankfully.
More criminals with access to more weapons in the US, I believe. True?"of course so banning them does what again ? So banning ones from law abiding ones does what ? Nothing it makes them victims. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Gun ban?
Guns are illegal in the UK and the statistics are considerably better than those in the USA.
I suppose it would be better with more weapons available in your opinion... Apparently criminals still can access them surely you not that blind.
Sadly they can. Not very many weapons and not very many have access to them. Thankfully.
More criminals with access to more weapons in the US, I believe. True? of course so banning them does what again ? So banning ones from law abiding ones does what ? Nothing it makes them victims."It means that 79% of murders are carried out using guns in the USA compared to 4% in the UK. It means that per 100,000 people in the USA there are 13.21 gun related deaths compared to 0.20 in the UK. You can find out how that splits between murders, accidents and suicides and work out what proportion are with legally held weapons. There is no test for being "law abiding" in many US States or even mentally stable, is there? What it does is reduce the number of people killed and wounded by weapons by a huge amount. You keep your guns and your death rate and the logic of why it's better to yourself as it will not make sense to anyone over here. | |||
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"I can only apologise to our friends across the water, in Larksville, Pennsylvania for the aggressive post above. " good shout. They have fund over there.  | |||
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"I can only apologise to our friends across the water, in Larksville, Pennsylvania for the aggressive post above. " Wow….you really are on trend | |||
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"Possible can of worms for some posters but... The primary reason for the escalation of gun related crime in the UK is down to drugs and rival gangs. It is the single biggest driver as each gang has to be increasingly “tooled up” to be able to hold their own against the other gangs. The drugs trade has gangs from many different ethnic origins. Often driven by the origin and destination for the drugs. Certain groups are more notorious than others for their extreme violence and “creative ways” to inflict pain. Many in Organised Crime use drugs as their primary income source but it is often supplemented by multiple other “income streams” including people smuggling and sex trafficking." Every word of that I agree with but you should also add that younger and angrier men/children are gang members now and that they don’t have the fear or mental space to see where they are headed | |||
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"I can only apologise to our friends across the water, in Larksville, Pennsylvania for the aggressive post above. " The "aggressive post" that outlines, with data why more people die from firearms in the US than the UK
The general population having extremely limited access to firearms does not make me a victim, it makes me far less likely to be a victim of deliberate or accidental death or wounding.
Have you any response to that it the actual OP of the thread? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? Apparently the gun ban clearly working.
Are you still shooting kids dead at school in the US? Tad bit angry are you ?"Why aren’t you angry ? | |||
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"What's wrong with staying indoors and reading a good book instead of shooting up the place. I don't go near London anymore, definite feel of unease, no atmosphere or good vibes at least. The capital will always be a dangerous place. Speaking as an ex Londoner." I am sorry to hear that, I have always found the centre of London a vibrant and safe place to visit, I love going out there | |||
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"I can only apologise to our friends across the water, in Larksville, Pennsylvania for the aggressive post above. The "aggressive post" that outlines, with data why more people die from firearms in the US than the UK
The general population having extremely limited access to firearms does not make me a victim, it makes me far less likely to be a victim of deliberate or accidental death or wounding.
Have you any response to that it the actual OP of the thread?"I was pointing out that people with nefarious intents will find a way to get them. Of course we have a higher gun fatality it's not rocket science or your statistical evidence. We still have more guns hence the higher chances of gun violence. It's a everyday norm.No politician or law is going to stop the violence. | |||
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"What's wrong with staying indoors and reading a good book instead of shooting up the place. I don't go near London anymore, definite feel of unease, no atmosphere or good vibes at least. The capital will always be a dangerous place. Speaking as an ex Londoner." London remains as it always has. In the main, perfectly pleasant, but also areas that I wouldn't go to and have no reason to go to. Like most towns and cities throughout the UK and globally. Highly unlikely to be the victim of gun crime anywhere in the UK, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be taken extremely seriously. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? " What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread?" Some interesting debate. | |||
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"I can only apologise to our friends across the water, in Larksville, Pennsylvania for the aggressive post above. The "aggressive post" that outlines, with data why more people die from firearms in the US than the UK
The general population having extremely limited access to firearms does not make me a victim, it makes me far less likely to be a victim of deliberate or accidental death or wounding.
Have you any response to that it the actual OP of the thread? I was pointing out that people with nefarious intents will find a way to get them. Of course we have a higher gun fatality it's not rocket science or your statistical evidence. We still have more guns hence the higher chances of gun violence. It's a everyday norm.No politician or law is going to stop the violence. "Except that a vanishingly small number do manage to get them and there are consequently a tiny number of victims. Firearms possession is treated extremely seriously by law enforcement and the judicial system. Not being armed absolutely does not make me or the vast majority of the population a victim, does it? Burglary or car theft being illegal doesn't prevent it either, but it certainly has an effect on how common it is, doesn't it? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread?" You don't have to engage in the thread if you don't like the debate. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. " What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? You don't have to engage in the thread if you don't like the debate. " You are correct. I don't. I didn't say that I didn't like anything. Good talk | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"?" It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread?" We all know what ..... | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? We all know what ....." Don’t be so snidey / creepy even. Say what you think? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? We all know what ..... Don’t be so snidey / creepy even. Say what you think?" I have done earlier in the thread. It's blatantly obvious. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? We all know what ..... Don’t be so snidey / creepy even. Say what you think? I have done earlier in the thread. It's blatantly obvious." I’d forgotten that non contribution to the post. Just your usual incorrect prejudice assumptions | |||
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"Unfortunately my assumption of prejudice keeps being confirmed." Help someone - pass me the binoculars, I need to look hard to find where somebody sees the shear audacity to make such disgusting and incorrect assumptions | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate " Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? " Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on?" I was posting on recent events. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else?" I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on?" That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading" Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? I was posting on recent events. " These recent events are newsworthy by their rarity, as has been pointed out. They also should be taken in context. As I said before, we do not know if this reflects a change in the trend or is a anomalous spike. We do not know if the recent events have a single cause or are unrelated. There have not been multiple "gun battles" though, have there? London does not resemble a "battle zone" either, does it? As serious as these events are, your description is one that over-dramatises the situation to evoke emotion and does not encourage sensible debate and discussion, does it? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. " Good. What is it then? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Then scroll on by. Why so pompous by the way? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? I was posting on recent events. These recent events are newsworthy by their rarity, as has been pointed out. They also should be taken in context. As I said before, we do not know if this reflects a change in the trend or is a anomalous spike. We do not know if the recent events have a single cause or are unrelated. There have not been multiple "gun battles" though, have there? London does not resemble a "battle zone" either, does it? As serious as these events are, your description is one that over-dramatises the situation to evoke emotion and does not encourage sensible debate and discussion, does it?" | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? I was posting on recent events. These recent events are newsworthy by their rarity, as has been pointed out. They also should be taken in context. As I said before, we do not know if this reflects a change in the trend or is a anomalous spike. We do not know if the recent events have a single cause or are unrelated. There have not been multiple "gun battles" though, have there? London does not resemble a "battle zone" either, does it? As serious as these events are, your description is one that over-dramatises the situation to evoke emotion and does not encourage sensible debate and discussion, does it?" Then simply scroll on by. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then?" It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? " Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb?" Great question. However, as has been pointed out by a bigoted ageist I’m in the latter part of my life so it’s not for me to offer suggestions on such things. I’ve been told to focus on what’s left of my life. How do people get away with such prejudiced hate? I’m glad my kids are grown and hopefully not of an age or circumstance that brings them anywhere near this violence. But it’s still a worry. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb? Great question. However, as has been pointed out by a bigoted ageist I’m in the latter part of my life so it’s not for me to offer suggestions on such things. I’ve been told to focus on what’s left of my life. How do people get away with such prejudiced hate? I’m glad my kids are grown and hopefully not of an age or circumstance that brings them anywhere near this violence. But it’s still a worry." I’d be interested to hear your views, ideas and solutions to this though. Especially as you started the thread! As for your kids. Don’t be too sure. Innocent people often get caught in the crossfire and even in the shires, the drug money is used to fuel other activity! | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP." The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb? Great question. However, as has been pointed out by a bigoted ageist I’m in the latter part of my life so it’s not for me to offer suggestions on such things. I’ve been told to focus on what’s left of my life. How do people get away with such prejudiced hate? I’m glad my kids are grown and hopefully not of an age or circumstance that brings them anywhere near this violence. But it’s still a worry. I’d be interested to hear your views, ideas and solutions to this though. Especially as you started the thread! As for your kids. Don’t be too sure. Innocent people often get caught in the crossfire and even in the shires, the drug money is used to fuel other activity!" Way above my pay grade! And I have no comprehension of the drug world at all so any suggestions I have would be the usual rant about more police and the need to crack a few heads etc which will only endear me more to a few people on here. I’d like to think & hope the communities impacted by this will step up and help. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. " That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb? Great question. However, as has been pointed out by a bigoted ageist I’m in the latter part of my life so it’s not for me to offer suggestions on such things. I’ve been told to focus on what’s left of my life. How do people get away with such prejudiced hate? I’m glad my kids are grown and hopefully not of an age or circumstance that brings them anywhere near this violence. But it’s still a worry. I’d be interested to hear your views, ideas and solutions to this though. Especially as you started the thread! As for your kids. Don’t be too sure. Innocent people often get caught in the crossfire and even in the shires, the drug money is used to fuel other activity! Way above my pay grade! And I have no comprehension of the drug world at all so any suggestions I have would be the usual rant about more police and the need to crack a few heads etc which will only endear me more to a few people on here. I’d like to think & hope the communities impacted by this will step up and help. " So you have no real opinion? You just wanted to say that there were "gun battles", when there was only one, and London was a "battle zone" when it is not. Why use such sensationalist language when it was not true? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb? Great question. However, as has been pointed out by a bigoted ageist I’m in the latter part of my life so it’s not for me to offer suggestions on such things. I’ve been told to focus on what’s left of my life. How do people get away with such prejudiced hate? I’m glad my kids are grown and hopefully not of an age or circumstance that brings them anywhere near this violence. But it’s still a worry. I’d be interested to hear your views, ideas and solutions to this though. Especially as you started the thread! As for your kids. Don’t be too sure. Innocent people often get caught in the crossfire and even in the shires, the drug money is used to fuel other activity! Way above my pay grade! And I have no comprehension of the drug world at all so any suggestions I have would be the usual rant about more police and the need to crack a few heads etc which will only endear me more to a few people on here. I’d like to think & hope the communities impacted by this will step up and help. So you have no real opinion? You just wanted to say that there were "gun battles", when there was only one, and London was a "battle zone" when it is not. Why use such sensationalist language when it was not true?" Plenty of opinion thanks but I was asked for ideas and a solution. I don’t feel qualified in that area. I simply commented on a number of street shootings. Scroll on by oh great one. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What do you think is going on? Well, we can dismiss the possibility that it’s in anyway linked to immigration. As we are told that all immigrants (legal or not) are ‘hard working good people who contribute greatly to the economy and our culture’. Must be something else? Why did you post this? Do you actually mean that it is nothing to do with immigration, or are you sarcastically implying something else? I actually posted it and asked the question based on some horrific events in the last week or so. We have a long & proud history of welcoming immigrants so it’s not immigration. Good. What is it then? It could be the inevitable escalation of the rampant knife crime that has plagued parts of the city in the last few years. Kids getting stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Worrying isn’t it? Yep. Any rise in crime of any sort is worrying. An increasingly fractured, angry, disaffected society where violent crime is on the rise is even more so. What shall we do about it Seb? Great question. However, as has been pointed out by a bigoted ageist I’m in the latter part of my life so it’s not for me to offer suggestions on such things. I’ve been told to focus on what’s left of my life. How do people get away with such prejudiced hate? I’m glad my kids are grown and hopefully not of an age or circumstance that brings them anywhere near this violence. But it’s still a worry. I’d be interested to hear your views, ideas and solutions to this though. Especially as you started the thread! As for your kids. Don’t be too sure. Innocent people often get caught in the crossfire and even in the shires, the drug money is used to fuel other activity! Way above my pay grade! And I have no comprehension of the drug world at all so any suggestions I have would be the usual rant about more police and the need to crack a few heads etc which will only endear me more to a few people on here. I’d like to think & hope the communities impacted by this will step up and help. So you have no real opinion? You just wanted to say that there were "gun battles", when there was only one, and London was a "battle zone" when it is not. Why use such sensationalist language when it was not true? Plenty of opinion thanks but I was asked for ideas and a solution. I don’t feel qualified in that area. I simply commented on a number of street shootings. Scroll on by oh great one. " I didn't wish to scroll past. Why did you feel the need to use such sensationalist and factually incorrect language in your original post? Are you unable to answer? Just say if you can't. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt." | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt." Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion" That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon..." What part is an assumption | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. " It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... What part is an assumption" "possible to increase above previous levels" Fair? | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. " There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. " Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? " All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? " It's not about demonising people based on their crimes. It's about people demonising non-white people and poor people. And it's about creating fear. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... What part is an assumption "possible to increase above previous levels" Fair?" I am not assuming it will go above previous levels I said it is possible to go above previous levels so not an assumption. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... What part is an assumption "possible to increase above previous levels" Fair? I am not assuming it will go above previous levels I said it is possible to go above previous levels so not an assumption. " That's slightly lost in the semantics. Perhaps taking a negative view when the information seems quite neutral? | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... What part is an assumption "possible to increase above previous levels" Fair? I am not assuming it will go above previous levels I said it is possible to go above previous levels so not an assumption. That's slightly lost in the semantics. Perhaps taking a negative view when the information seems quite neutral?" It is possible for gun crime to increase. It is possible for gun crime to decrease. It is possible for gun crime to stay the same. None are assumptions but all are possibilities. Choose which you prefer. Everything else I have put is taken from the report you provided. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... What part is an assumption "possible to increase above previous levels" Fair? I am not assuming it will go above previous levels I said it is possible to go above previous levels so not an assumption. That's slightly lost in the semantics. Perhaps taking a negative view when the information seems quite neutral? It is possible for gun crime to increase. It is possible for gun crime to decrease. It is possible for gun crime to stay the same. None are assumptions but all are possibilities. Choose which you prefer. Everything else I have put is taken from the report you provided." Remember, not a report, a newspaper article so always subject to some spin. The statistics did seem sounds though. However, as you said you choose how to view the potential outcomes... | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. What is going on then? Are there "gun battles" in the plural and is "London now a battle zone"? It’s starting to look like that. Similar to Sweden where knife & gun crime was almost unheard of. I hope I’m wrong and that it’s just a horrible blip but these things do tend to escalate Is it? So you still believe that there have been multiple "gun battles" and that London is a "battle zone"? Is that not exaggeration? "While firearms offences have fallen 14% on the whole in the past 10 years – helped by a big fall in gun crime in London – 29 out of 43 police forces have seen an increase in gun crime during that time. In eight of these it has more than doubled." "Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago." "While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas" "Though about 100 illegal firearms are seized in the UK each month, Squires said no organisation has a clear idea of how many firearms are circulating. “Ninety per cent of crime guns are only used once and then they disappear,” he said." “You don’t really need to own a weapon. You can get one from a holder, do whatever you have to do and give it back. The obvious selling point with that is basically you don’t have the responsibility of getting rid of it.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales The data appears to suggest a markedly different situation to the one that you are describing. What's going on? That's a disturbing and frightening report. Gun crime on the increase in the majority of police forces, in some its doubled, growing availability, 100 guns seized monthly with no idea how many are out there. Seems to be spreading Nobody has ever known how many illegal weapons are out there, by their nature. There is, apparently, an overall fall in gun crime but its moving to areas with less effective policing for this issue. However, very different to the OP. The report says overall there has been a drop at the start. Then afterwards it's all bad news. It's rising in two thirds of the police forces areas which is quite shocking. Personally I don't want such things to be normalised here in the UK. That means a lower level overall, but more dispersed. That doesn't imply to me that it is being normalised. It means that it will take some time for regional forces to learn how to deal with gun crime but can learn directly from city forces. The problem seems to more be the under staffing still being felt. Lower overall but spreading so possible to increase above previous levels. The report shows the majority of police forces reporting an increase in gun crime. Some reporting that it has doubled. Personally I think it's disturbing but that's just my opinion That's an assumption. If you take the data as it exists and reported, rather than filling the gaps, it's a change, not a growth. Doubling in one place but overall falling is a local increase. A definite problem for that area, but it would appear solvable because this growth is happening as a consequence of it being dealt with elsewhere. Like squeezing a balloon... What part is an assumption "possible to increase above previous levels" Fair? I am not assuming it will go above previous levels I said it is possible to go above previous levels so not an assumption. That's slightly lost in the semantics. Perhaps taking a negative view when the information seems quite neutral? It is possible for gun crime to increase. It is possible for gun crime to decrease. It is possible for gun crime to stay the same. None are assumptions but all are possibilities. Choose which you prefer. Everything else I have put is taken from the report you provided. Remember, not a report, a newspaper article so always subject to some spin. The statistics did seem sounds though. However, as you said you choose how to view the potential outcomes..." Ok a newspaper article, supplied on here by yourself. It is those article statistics and only those article statistics that I have quoted. I hope the situation is tackled in the area's that are experiencing the problems. Maybe the London police can advise and support but understand that police numbers are lower than they should be due to cuts | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? " Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay? | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? It's not about demonising people based on their crimes. It's about people demonising non-white people and poor people. And it's about creating fear." My post was purely about a specific crime, gun crime. Where did my post indicate something different? Another poster threw in poor and non-white, I couldn't care less about backgrounds, shoot at a person, threaten a person with a gun, or kill a person with a gun should be demonised. Why change this to race and wealth? | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay?" Definitely not, it is horrendous no matter where it happens and who is responsible | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? It's not about demonising people based on their crimes. It's about people demonising non-white people and poor people. And it's about creating fear. My post was purely about a specific crime, gun crime. Where did my post indicate something different? Another poster threw in poor and non-white, I couldn't care less about backgrounds, shoot at a person, threaten a person with a gun, or kill a person with a gun should be demonised. Why change this to race and wealth? " They will use a excuse to justify peoples actions. Not who actually pulled the trigger. It's the same here. Get use to it with the rising costs of everything people will get desperate. It's human nature. | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? It's not about demonising people based on their crimes. It's about people demonising non-white people and poor people. And it's about creating fear. My post was purely about a specific crime, gun crime. Where did my post indicate something different? Another poster threw in poor and non-white, I couldn't care less about backgrounds, shoot at a person, threaten a person with a gun, or kill a person with a gun should be demonised. Why change this to race and wealth? They will use a excuse to justify peoples actions. Not who actually pulled the trigger. It's the same here. Get use to it with the rising costs of everything people will get desperate. It's human nature." It won't get as bad as there. We have very few people with guns. | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay? Definitely not, it is horrendous no matter where it happens and who is responsible " Well some on here definitely did think some gun crime was okay, ans were at pains to point this out. After the killing of Chris Kaba there were many on here saying that he deserved what he got. Seems legal violence is the monopoly of the state. | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay? Definitely not, it is horrendous no matter where it happens and who is responsible Well some on here definitely did think some gun crime was okay, ans were at pains to point this out. After the killing of Chris Kaba there were many on here saying that he deserved what he got. Seems legal violence is the monopoly of the state." Has this shooting been declared lawful or unlawful? I can't find the decision of the enquiry? | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay? Definitely not, it is horrendous no matter where it happens and who is responsible Well some on here definitely did think some gun crime was okay, ans were at pains to point this out. After the killing of Chris Kaba there were many on here saying that he deserved what he got. Seems legal violence is the monopoly of the state." It should be the monopoly of the state and it should almost never be used. If well trained officers screw up, imagine what amateurs will do... | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay? Definitely not, it is horrendous no matter where it happens and who is responsible Well some on here definitely did think some gun crime was okay, ans were at pains to point this out. After the killing of Chris Kaba there were many on here saying that he deserved what he got. Seems legal violence is the monopoly of the state. It should be the monopoly of the state and it should almost never be used. If well trained officers screw up, imagine what amateurs will do..." Then this is not democracy. It is control. | |||
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"Six street gun battles in seven days. What’s going on? What were you hoping to achieve with this thread? Some interesting debate. " Come we all know seb likes a good mass debate. | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms
Their "are you a teacher or something? | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms
Their are you a teacher or something? "I am curious of the firearms used. Are they foreign or domestic. | |||
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"We live in between 2 of the areas that have recently had issues with gun crime. It's concerning but it certainly does not feel like a battle zone and I think that is rather emotive language that isn't necessary. It's necessary if you're trying to demonise poor people and non-white people. There is no denying there have been recent issues that have mainly been gang related however I do not believe that London is any more unsafe than any other capital city. I think you are right I think this is simply to try and demonise people. Why would you not demonise those that are committing gun crime? Surely that is the right thing to do? All gun crime? Or just specific gun crime in specific areas? Why would that be a question to what I posted? Do you think some gun crime is okay? Definitely not, it is horrendous no matter where it happens and who is responsible Well some on here definitely did think some gun crime was okay, ans were at pains to point this out. After the killing of Chris Kaba there were many on here saying that he deserved what he got. Seems legal violence is the monopoly of the state." Stop making things up. Nobody on here said that at all. | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms
Their are you a teacher or something? "Sorry, I was being pedantic, It is pathetic when someone corrects another persons spelling and grammar, my apologies | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms
Their are you a teacher or something?
I am curious of the firearms used. Are they foreign or domestic. "Foreign. Brought in mainly by Albanian gangsters. Sweden has a problem also. Gun & bomb crime from Albanians that they gave refuge to a while back. How they regret that generosity now. Sweden has | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms
Their are you a teacher or something? "He likes to think so. He also picked up another poster that made reference to the word ‘who’ He took it on himself to Google the band member names and the date the Who’ formed. Strange. | |||
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"Sebaceous, remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is a Game. I’m a grown up. I don’t play computer games. Hunting in the pack now are we? they all ways have been a pack seb, i find them very amusing to be honest with you, legends in there own living rooms
Their are you a teacher or something?
I am curious of the firearms used. Are they foreign or domestic.
Foreign. Brought in mainly by Albanian gangsters. Sweden has a problem also. Gun & bomb crime from Albanians that they gave refuge to a while back. How they regret that generosity now.
Sweden has "According to the BBC Albanians are less likely to pass the asylum tests with 53% being granted asylum. For others it's 76% pass rate. I did see some things in Sweden a few weeks ago and does not look good. No wonder they are concerned | |||
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