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Austerity 2.0
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy? |
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If the uplift in taxes offsets the need for cuts in public spending, then sure.
Happy to return to a semblance of normalcy ? That's too undefined to specify. Some say we are post-Covid. We're not, IMHO. The world post-covid has changed and it's not going back to how it was previously. The past is a different country. They did things differently there. This is a new age now. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Did Austerity 1.0 ever finish?
Was public service spending and provision ever increased again? Has anything improved.
If we genuinely want our country to function then we have to pay for it in personal tax and corporation tax. |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?"
Don't think we have a choice, otherwise it's bust!!
Our kids are going to pay the bulk of this. Should have been Windfall. |
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?"
It is another political theory, tighten the belt austerity for the broad shouldered and free cash quantitative easing for the entitled. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
Don't think we have a choice, otherwise it's bust!!
Our kids are going to pay the bulk of this. Should have been Windfall."
There might be a increase in the windfall, probably. Who knows these days?
Of course we don’t have a choice, we don’t make the decisions we have them made for us. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If the uplift in taxes offsets the need for cuts in public spending, then sure.
Happy to return to a semblance of normalcy ? That's too undefined to specify. Some say we are post-Covid. We're not, IMHO. The world post-covid has changed and it's not going back to how it was previously. The past is a different country. They did things differently there. This is a new age now."
I agree, it’s The age of the arsehole now, but what’s new. |
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?"
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced. |
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced."
Yes let’s get rid of all the criminal and inefficient wasters like those cretins in number 10? We have had 12 years of austerity in which time government debt and the tax burden have risen to unprecedented highs and more importantly there has been no growth in the economy. I guess you think slash and burn is the answer to everything? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced."
Do you mean cutting tax like thick Lizzie tried to do? That worked well  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced."
But you cannot have one without the other. You’ve got to have both, therein lies the problem.
How can the tories plug a deficit hole and improve efficiencies in public sector areas.
Cutting taxes nearly destroyed the economy, whilst increases in public spending on pet projects ruined the public purse
I hear HS2 is up for cuts, soon to be replaced by a Hornby train set.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced.
But you cannot have one without the other. You’ve got to have both, therein lies the problem.
How can the tories plug a deficit hole and improve efficiencies in public sector areas.
Cutting taxes nearly destroyed the economy, whilst increases in public spending on pet projects ruined the public purse
I hear HS2 is up for cuts, soon to be replaced by a Hornby train set.
"
Plus another £120 million wasted on the Rwanda scheme |
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How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Of course tax needs to increase I for one don't have problem with it the more I earn the more I expect to contribute don't forget all the furlough many people enjoyed when there was no real need for it in some cases has to be payed back |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of course tax needs to increase I for one don't have problem with it the more I earn the more I expect to contribute don't forget all the furlough many people enjoyed when there was no real need for it in some cases has to be payed back"
There should be an option for people to pay more tax if they want to. I am sure there are many well meaning citizens who would like to pay more. They should be able to tick a box and pay double the tax of everyone else.
It would also help to ease the burden on those less fortunate than themselves. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced."
I agree. Let’s start with looking at the £40bn black hole in public finances. Brexit is costing the UK economy £40bn a year, every year from now on. Reverse that and job done!
Next let’s recover the money lost to Covid Fraud = approx £4bn+
Next recover the money from substandard PPE that was unusable = £8bn
Next recover the money from all the Tory donors and cronies who got access to Govt Covid related contracts via the VIP lane and see what their “finders fee/consultancy fee” was. I am sure for the good of the country they will agree to pay a chunk of that back right = £billions
Next lets clamp down on tax evasion by corporates and individuals that is estimated to be worth somewhere in region of £5bn per year.
Next lets simplify our tax system and close loopholes and be clear whether tax avoidance actually is or isn’t acceptable!
We’d be running a surplus just from those things! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced.
I agree. Let’s start with looking at the £40bn black hole in public finances. Brexit is costing the UK economy £40bn a year, every year from now on. Reverse that and job done!
Next let’s recover the money lost to Covid Fraud = approx £4bn+
Next recover the money from substandard PPE that was unusable = £8bn
Next recover the money from all the Tory donors and cronies who got access to Govt Covid related contracts via the VIP lane and see what their “finders fee/consultancy fee” was. I am sure for the good of the country they will agree to pay a chunk of that back right = £billions
Next lets clamp down on tax evasion by corporates and individuals that is estimated to be worth somewhere in region of £5bn per year.
Next lets simplify our tax system and close loopholes and be clear whether tax avoidance actually is or isn’t acceptable!
We’d be running a surplus just from those things!"
Reverse Brexit - not going to happen
Recover COVID fraud money - not going to happen
Substandard PPE recovery - not going to happen
Tory donors - this is just part of the tin foil hat conspiracy world you are inhabiting
"Tax evasion" of £5bn - that's about a fortnight's interest in government debt
This is the problem. The Left are happy to sit in the back row and sneer at what the government is doing, but don't have any viable alternative policies that will actually achieve anything.
So we just get Starmer examining his navel about what a woman is.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced.
I agree. Let’s start with looking at the £40bn black hole in public finances. Brexit is costing the UK economy £40bn a year, every year from now on. Reverse that and job done!
Next let’s recover the money lost to Covid Fraud = approx £4bn+
Next recover the money from substandard PPE that was unusable = £8bn
Next recover the money from all the Tory donors and cronies who got access to Govt Covid related contracts via the VIP lane and see what their “finders fee/consultancy fee” was. I am sure for the good of the country they will agree to pay a chunk of that back right = £billions
Next lets clamp down on tax evasion by corporates and individuals that is estimated to be worth somewhere in region of £5bn per year.
Next lets simplify our tax system and close loopholes and be clear whether tax avoidance actually is or isn’t acceptable!
We’d be running a surplus just from those things!
Reverse Brexit - not going to happen
Recover COVID fraud money - not going to happen
Substandard PPE recovery - not going to happen
Tory donors - this is just part of the tin foil hat conspiracy world you are inhabiting
"Tax evasion" of £5bn - that's about a fortnight's interest in government debt
This is the problem. The Left are happy to sit in the back row and sneer at what the government is doing, but don't have any viable alternative policies that will actually achieve anything.
So we just get Starmer examining his navel about what a woman is.
"
You missed the irony. Of course these things won’t happen but I was highlighting some of the reasons we are in the mess we are. A mess of this Government’s making.
Can add in removing the private sector from providing public sector services. The public purse is being fleeced under the smoke and mirrors myth of efficiency. Profit motive has no place in the provision of public services. It is an oxymoron.
And before you get all excited, yep New Labour introduced PPP. I don’t care for tribalism or the footballisation of politics. I would solid government that benefits the citizens of the UK! |
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So, I would cut all pet projects such as HS2 (should never have been started, for a quarter of the cost everyone in the country could have had full fibre Internet so more could have worked from home).
NHS currently funded to about 7.5% of GDP. Double what it was 20 years ago. Due to a number of factors including failure to discharge patients to a broken care system, too many people on high salaries while under paying the front line staff, failure to concentrate on doing the best for the greatest number of people while spending lots of money keeping a few alive for a short extra time, too many unnecessary treatments such as fertility and weight loss. Etc...
Care system needs to pay a decent wage but also leverage technology to automate some tasks. It is cheaper to invest in care than the main NHS.
All other public service bodies have too many over paid middle and upper management and pay the front line staff too little. Very few should be in the 40% tax bracket and even at the very top they shouldn't be far into it.
Councils moan about power bills but heat buildings such as schools way too much. Anything over 18 degrees C is a waste.
All useless and unnecessary training needs to be removed, along with the associated non jobs. Start with anything to do with diversity and inclusion.
Technology needs to be used to increase efficiency. Most transactions need to be electronic.
All the above is before we start on general productivity and removing legacy processes and practices. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Is it a good thing?
Should we be happy with increases in taxes? And additional cuts to public spending.
What are your thoughts, are you all happy to return to some semblance of normalcy?
No. We should get rid of the criminal waste and inefficiency that permeates all our public spending. Tax needs to be reduced."
What waste and inefficiency?
What are the figures? How much is this worth and how much is achievable?
What has the Government achieved over the last decade with austerity? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, I would cut all pet projects such as HS2 (should never have been started, for a quarter of the cost everyone in the country could have had full fibre Internet so more could have worked from home).
NHS currently funded to about 7.5% of GDP. Double what it was 20 years ago. Due to a number of factors including failure to discharge patients to a broken care system, too many people on high salaries while under paying the front line staff, failure to concentrate on doing the best for the greatest number of people while spending lots of money keeping a few alive for a short extra time, too many unnecessary treatments such as fertility and weight loss. Etc...
Care system needs to pay a decent wage but also leverage technology to automate some tasks. It is cheaper to invest in care than the main NHS.
All other public service bodies have too many over paid middle and upper management and pay the front line staff too little. Very few should be in the 40% tax bracket and even at the very top they shouldn't be far into it.
Councils moan about power bills but heat buildings such as schools way too much. Anything over 18 degrees C is a waste.
All useless and unnecessary training needs to be removed, along with the associated non jobs. Start with anything to do with diversity and inclusion.
Technology needs to be used to increase efficiency. Most transactions need to be electronic.
All the above is before we start on general productivity and removing legacy processes and practices."
Why haven’t any of your ideas been implemented |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved."
So we help increase global insecurity and surrender any global influence and expect to be able to re-engage when we're in the mood? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved."
Ah the old cut foreign aid argument! I would say that would be economically illiterate. One of the reasons cited by brexiters was the need for the UK to be more fleet of foot and carve out new marketplaces. Well guess how foreign aid is used? You need to improve the living conditions in poorer countries to create consumers for your products and services! The Chinese have been very clever about that! |
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"Why haven’t any of your ideas been implemented"
Too many people with a vested interest in the status quo.
Lack of both ability and will from politicians.
Lack of innovative thinking in terms of technology.
Too many restrictive rules and regulations. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved.
Ah the old cut foreign aid argument! I would say that would be economically illiterate. One of the reasons cited by brexiters was the need for the UK to be more fleet of foot and carve out new marketplaces. Well guess how foreign aid is used? You need to improve the living conditions in poorer countries to create consumers for your products and services! The Chinese have been very clever about that!"
Hmmm. China has actually created a form of financial colonialism and grabbed assets in developing nations by financing projects that were never going to be repaid.
No symbiotic market growth plan. Purely selfish, as far as I can see. Look at the consequences... |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"So, I would cut all pet projects such as HS2 (should never have been started, for a quarter of the cost everyone in the country could have had full fibre Internet so more could have worked from home).
NHS currently funded to about 7.5% of GDP. Double what it was 20 years ago. Due to a number of factors including failure to discharge patients to a broken care system, too many people on high salaries while under paying the front line staff, failure to concentrate on doing the best for the greatest number of people while spending lots of money keeping a few alive for a short extra time, too many unnecessary treatments such as fertility and weight loss. Etc...
Care system needs to pay a decent wage but also leverage technology to automate some tasks. It is cheaper to invest in care than the main NHS.
All other public service bodies have too many over paid middle and upper management and pay the front line staff too little. Very few should be in the 40% tax bracket and even at the very top they shouldn't be far into it.
Councils moan about power bills but heat buildings such as schools way too much. Anything over 18 degrees C is a waste.
All useless and unnecessary training needs to be removed, along with the associated non jobs. Start with anything to do with diversity and inclusion.
Technology needs to be used to increase efficiency. Most transactions need to be electronic.
All the above is before we start on general productivity and removing legacy processes and practices."
“for a quarter of the cost everyone in the country could have had full fibre Internet so more could have worked from home”
Shhhh people will say you are a Corbyn supporter! That was his idea and was roundly ridiculed at the time!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why haven’t any of your ideas been implemented
Too many people with a vested interest in the status quo.
Lack of both ability and will from politicians.
Lack of innovative thinking in terms of technology.
Too many restrictive rules and regulations."
Fair enough, you will struggle to get good quality management staff if you don’t pay decent wages, |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Why haven’t any of your ideas been implemented
Too many people with a vested interest in the status quo.
Lack of both ability and will from politicians.
Lack of innovative thinking in terms of technology.
Too many restrictive rules and regulations."
Mostly agree except for the last part which always sounds like a great plan until it turns out that there is a useful function for a lot of the "rules and regulations". The most restrictive and inconvenient ones are often the most necessary... |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So, I would cut all pet projects such as HS2 (should never have been started, for a quarter of the cost everyone in the country could have had full fibre Internet so more could have worked from home).
NHS currently funded to about 7.5% of GDP. Double what it was 20 years ago. Due to a number of factors including failure to discharge patients to a broken care system, too many people on high salaries while under paying the front line staff, failure to concentrate on doing the best for the greatest number of people while spending lots of money keeping a few alive for a short extra time, too many unnecessary treatments such as fertility and weight loss. Etc...
Care system needs to pay a decent wage but also leverage technology to automate some tasks. It is cheaper to invest in care than the main NHS.
All other public service bodies have too many over paid middle and upper management and pay the front line staff too little. Very few should be in the 40% tax bracket and even at the very top they shouldn't be far into it.
Councils moan about power bills but heat buildings such as schools way too much. Anything over 18 degrees C is a waste.
All useless and unnecessary training needs to be removed, along with the associated non jobs. Start with anything to do with diversity and inclusion.
Technology needs to be used to increase efficiency. Most transactions need to be electronic.
All the above is before we start on general productivity and removing legacy processes and practices."
Why do you think that NHS spending has increased?
Just down to suddenly plummeting "inefficiency"?
You believe that the team running a multi-million pound organisation with thousands of staff shouldn't be in the 40% tax bracket? £37,700 |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved.
Ah the old cut foreign aid argument! I would say that would be economically illiterate. One of the reasons cited by brexiters was the need for the UK to be more fleet of foot and carve out new marketplaces. Well guess how foreign aid is used? You need to improve the living conditions in poorer countries to create consumers for your products and services! The Chinese have been very clever about that!
Hmmm. China has actually created a form of financial colonialism and grabbed assets in developing nations by financing projects that were never going to be repaid.
No symbiotic market growth plan. Purely selfish, as far as I can see. Look at the consequences..."
Oh I wasn’t saying it was altruistic. I was pointing out that cutting foreign aid is economically illiterate and flies in the face some of the arguments put forward by Vote Leave! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved.
Ah the old cut foreign aid argument! I would say that would be economically illiterate. One of the reasons cited by brexiters was the need for the UK to be more fleet of foot and carve out new marketplaces. Well guess how foreign aid is used? You need to improve the living conditions in poorer countries to create consumers for your products and services! The Chinese have been very clever about that!
Hmmm. China has actually created a form of financial colonialism and grabbed assets in developing nations by financing projects that were never going to be repaid.
No symbiotic market growth plan. Purely selfish, as far as I can see. Look at the consequences...
Oh I wasn’t saying it was altruistic. I was pointing out that cutting foreign aid is economically illiterate and flies in the face some of the arguments put forward by Vote Leave!"
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think that China is an exemplar of the approach. Not by a long way.
The Marshall Plan is a far clearer example, but even then the motivation was anti-Communist rather than pro growth and cooperation  |
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"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved.
So we help increase global insecurity and surrender any global influence and expect to be able to re-engage when we're in the mood?"
We aren't the world police. Name me one war we have been involved in over the last 3 decades that has increased world security and not just decimated the infrastructure of said countries and allowed worse people to take over? I'll wait, cause it doesn't exist.
As for foreign aid. We have people not getting the help they need here. Charity begins at home. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved.
Ah the old cut foreign aid argument! I would say that would be economically illiterate. One of the reasons cited by brexiters was the need for the UK to be more fleet of foot and carve out new marketplaces. Well guess how foreign aid is used? You need to improve the living conditions in poorer countries to create consumers for your products and services! The Chinese have been very clever about that!
Hmmm. China has actually created a form of financial colonialism and grabbed assets in developing nations by financing projects that were never going to be repaid.
No symbiotic market growth plan. Purely selfish, as far as I can see. Look at the consequences...
Oh I wasn’t saying it was altruistic. I was pointing out that cutting foreign aid is economically illiterate and flies in the face some of the arguments put forward by Vote Leave!
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think that China is an exemplar of the approach. Not by a long way.
The Marshall Plan is a far clearer example, but even then the motivation was anti-Communist rather than pro growth and cooperation "
Fair enough. Take China out of my post and everything else still stands. |
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"Why do you think that NHS spending has increased?"
I outlined much of it in the post.
"You believe that the team running a multi-million pound organisation with thousands of staff shouldn't be in the 40% tax bracket? £37,700"
The 40% tax bracket starts at £50,270. That is a reasonable salary for middle / upper management and is equivalent to many professionally qualified people in the private sector.
Why should managers get paid more than the workers? In general, managers don't do much anyway. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Why do you think that NHS spending has increased?
I outlined much of it in the post.
You believe that the team running a multi-million pound organisation with thousands of staff shouldn't be in the 40% tax bracket? £37,700
The 40% tax bracket starts at £50,270. That is a reasonable salary for middle / upper management and is equivalent to many professionally qualified people in the private sector.
Why should managers get paid more than the workers? In general, managers don't do much anyway."
My local Health Authority has several Senior Executives on salaries of £150 to £220k per annum.
They have overseen a total disintegration of the service. They are always in and out of special measures. So much so, they has to get in another management tier on the financial side.
For the last few years, they have had to pay out millions in negligence claims, as well as failing to address poor staff morale and staff retention.
It's truly shocking! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Why do you think that NHS spending has increased?
I outlined much of it in the post.
You believe that the team running a multi-million pound organisation with thousands of staff shouldn't be in the 40% tax bracket? £37,700
The 40% tax bracket starts at £50,270. That is a reasonable salary for middle / upper management and is equivalent to many professionally qualified people in the private sector.
Why should managers get paid more than the workers? In general, managers don't do much anyway."
You are starting to sound like a socialist! First you agree with Corbyn on universal broadband. Now you want parity of pay!
Joking aside, without doubt some middle management in any organisation (public or private) is ineffective but not all! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved.
So we help increase global insecurity and surrender any global influence and expect to be able to re-engage when we're in the mood?We aren't the world police. Name me one war we have been involved in over the last 3 decades that has increased world security and not just decimated the infrastructure of said countries and allowed worse people to take over? I'll wait, cause it doesn't exist.
As for foreign aid. We have people not getting the help they need here. Charity begins at home."
Nothing about "policing".
Leaving other countries with very different views of freedom to influence global events leaves us with progressively fewer choices and opportunities and leaves us more and more isolated.
You really don't get this?
If we only look inwards you think that we will not be affected by the rest of the world? |
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"You are starting to sound like a socialist! First you agree with Corbyn on universal broadband. Now you want parity of pay!"
"Joking aside, without doubt some middle management in any organisation (public or private) is ineffective but not all! "
Possibly, however none of them really make enough difference to justify salaries well into the 40% tax bracket. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Why do you think that NHS spending has increased?
I outlined much of it in the post.
You believe that the team running a multi-million pound organisation with thousands of staff shouldn't be in the 40% tax bracket? £37,700
The 40% tax bracket starts at £50,270. That is a reasonable salary for middle / upper management and is equivalent to many professionally qualified people in the private sector.
Why should managers get paid more than the workers? In general, managers don't do much anyway.
My local Health Authority has several Senior Executives on salaries of £150 to £220k per annum.
They have overseen a total disintegration of the service. They are always in and out of special measures. So much so, they has to get in another management tier on the financial side.
For the last few years, they have had to pay out millions in negligence claims, as well as failing to address poor staff morale and staff retention.
It's truly shocking!"
You were talking about the 40% tax bracket. Fair enough if you mean the 45% higher rate above £150k
I don't disagree that the differential between staff and management pay is too high, but this is just as true in the private sector. It has got unjustifiably out of whack, but there really is competition for good staff. I think that you are incorrect about managers "not doing much anyway". Bad managers do not. They can actively make the situation worse. That said, there seem to be precious few genuinely good managers anywhere but they are hugely positive when you see them in action.
Negligence is as much about having to work around poor resourcing as inherently bad management. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
I have never subscribed to this idea that public sector workers should not get paid as highly as those in the private sector. Why?
The old adage, pay peanuts get monkeys is true. During the period 2000-2010 the Labour Govt recognised that get secure the best and brightest, they needed to compete with the private sector. While there was never complete parity on salaries, the entire package, including pension scheme, holiday allowance etc actually made the public sector a more attractive place to work.
Then in 2010 and the implementation of public sector pay freezes (that actually resulted in pay cuts), change in pension schemes, the public sector became increasingly less attractive. Indeed the Civil Service suffered a significant brain drain, ironically with top notch staff snapped up by consultancies for their public sector divisions, charging huge day rates to go back in and tell the public sector how to operate.
It has become a self fulfilling prophecy. The public sector could have retained the best by maintaining a good quality remuneration/benefits package and it would have cost less than the amount spent on consultancies! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"All bad managers, whether public or private sector, should be held to account.
That means scrutiny by taxpayers and shareholders. There should be greater transparency.
"
Agreed. Let’s start at the top. Now what is going to happen to Johnson & Sunak and Truss & Kwartang for their shocking running of UK PLC? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"All bad managers, whether public or private sector, should be held to account.
That means scrutiny by taxpayers and shareholders. There should be greater transparency.
Agreed. Let’s start at the top. Now what is going to happen to Johnson & Sunak and Truss & Kwartang for their shocking running of UK PLC?"
That'll be at the judge of the electorate. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"All bad managers, whether public or private sector, should be held to account.
That means scrutiny by taxpayers and shareholders. There should be greater transparency.
Agreed. Let’s start at the top. Now what is going to happen to Johnson & Sunak and Truss & Kwartang for their shocking running of UK PLC?
That'll be at the judge of the electorate."
Not really. Even if as a result of the Tories losing the GE they lose their jobs as MPs, ex-ministers and ex-Prime Ministers, they all get to keep their very tidy annual residual for their time in office (for the rest of their life). So not really much come back! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All bad managers, whether public or private sector, should be held to account.
That means scrutiny by taxpayers and shareholders. There should be greater transparency.
Agreed. Let’s start at the top. Now what is going to happen to Johnson & Sunak and Truss & Kwartang for their shocking running of UK PLC?
That'll be at the judge of the electorate."
Public sector workers very rarely get held to account. In the private sector if you keep on employing duds you go broke.
In the public sector you either carry on in your job (like the Governor of the Bank of England) or poor performance is just blamed on inadequate resources. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"All bad managers, whether public or private sector, should be held to account.
That means scrutiny by taxpayers and shareholders. There should be greater transparency.
Agreed. Let’s start at the top. Now what is going to happen to Johnson & Sunak and Truss & Kwartang for their shocking running of UK PLC?
That'll be at the judge of the electorate.
Public sector workers very rarely get held to account. In the private sector if you keep on employing duds you go broke.
In the public sector you either carry on in your job (like the Governor of the Bank of England) or poor performance is just blamed on inadequate resources."
Or you can be (sacked) forced to resign and then get your job back six days later when there is a new boss! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How about cutting all foreign aid until our own house is in order. There's a good few billion right off the bat.
How about we also stop with the proxy wars we get involved in every few years. More billions saved."
Now we are talking about soft power, this is another problem, aid doesn’t necessarily mean it helping out, we also use that money to fund Brand UK/GB abroad, winning contracts with other governments. Proxy wars, don’t think for one second that we will not get our money back on the arms we are supplying, the problem is who’s pocket is it going in? The governments or the arms suppliers? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Look on the bright side, it can only happen up to the next GE which is less than 2 years time. Then the Tories get evicted and the country is on the up again."
Haha good one, "on the up again".
I'd be interested to hear how Labour intends to do that exactly. |
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"Look on the bright side, it can only happen up to the next GE which is less than 2 years time. Then the Tories get evicted and the country is on the up again.
Haha good one, "on the up again".
I'd be interested to hear how Labour intends to do that exactly."
But what would be the point….wasted breath on deaf ears |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Look on the bright side, it can only happen up to the next GE which is less than 2 years time. Then the Tories get evicted and the country is on the up again.
Haha good one, "on the up again".
I'd be interested to hear how Labour intends to do that exactly."
What do you like bout the current government?
What have they achieved? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Look on the bright side, it can only happen up to the next GE which is less than 2 years time. Then the Tories get evicted and the country is on the up again.
Haha good one, "on the up again".
I'd be interested to hear how Labour intends to do that exactly."
Well if you read what they want to do, then probably you’ll understand.
They do have a website which tells you. |
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