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Tory voters are you not embarrassed?
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!)" Die hard tories won’t care unless it directly affects them, the more moderate and sensible Tory voters must be embarrassed | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!)" no not embarrassed about voting but that's different to the shower that's in charge | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!)no not embarrassed about voting but that's different to the shower that's in charge " You voted for the Tories under Johnson in Dec 2019  that’s a bit awkward! | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!)" . Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . " Is twelve years the "short-term"? How long does a party have to be in power to cause a long-term problem? | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Is twelve years the "short-term"? How long does a party have to be in power to cause a long-term problem?" ask labour | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!)no not embarrassed about voting but that's different to the shower that's in charge You voted for the Tories under Johnson in Dec 2019 that’s a bit awkward!"why was the best and only one that would do what the public voted for. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . " Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. " Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives." You’re right, economic credibility was a cornerstone of conservative popularity. They’ve spaffed that up the wall now. They better get out whilst they still can get a handful of MP’s sitting in parliament. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives." The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. " There is a whole thread explaining the Leicester thing. Has waaaay more to do with Hindu/Muslim tension than political party. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives." They didn't seem to give a shit when brexit fucked them over. Most of them cheered it on. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. " You realise don’t you that there is nothing in this country that has improved in the last 12 years of Conservative rule - literally nothing. The Blair/Brown era ushered in material change for the majority of ordinary people in this country and GDP per capita was at its highest in 2006/7. Gordon in the early years of the millennia was running the country with fiscal prudence and in fact this was the last time that the Government was operating a surplus. NHS waiting lists were none existent, foodbanks had not been invented and homelessness was all but eradicated. The Conservatives have no ability to operate as Conservatives anymore because of the state of the economy. They can’t really cut costs any more because they are already cut to the bone and the NHS has 7,000,000+ people on the waiting list. Brexit has knocked 4% off GDP, there is a massive Covid debt, a massive energy subsidy debt looming and the Ukraine war is going to end up costing billions in military aid. So where can this money come from if the market responds so negatively to unfounded tax cuts? The answer is in tax rises. It’s just inevitable. | |||
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"Approx 41000 people were using foodbanks in the last year of the Labour Goverment. The Trussell Trust certainly had 2 operating in 2004. However, the growth in use has been shamefully vast." This kind of this is inconsequential to Tory voters though. | |||
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"Approx 41000 people were using foodbanks in the last year of the Labour Goverment. The Trussell Trust certainly had 2 operating in 2004. However, the growth in use has been shamefully vast." That was in the years immediately following the global financial crash and even then, it represents a tiny percentage of current foodbank use (currently estimated at 2,500,000 people). Prior to that it was statistically insignificant across most parts of the country. | |||
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"For a member of the G7 to have some of its police, nurses and firefighters using food banks is staggering.. It's only happened with those professions under this government.." Do you have any figures for this? I know many many nurses and none of them use foodbanks, nor know of anyone that does? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but I'd like to know actual figures. | |||
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"Embarrassed is a strange choice of word. Bewildered and let down. Despair even at the current debacle. People that vote Conservative as they feel it’s the party that best represents their beliefs & wishes will I guess continue to vote for them as they simply cannot accept the alternative. What about the ‘red wall’ voters, how do they feel I wonder? Do they feel that they fell for the bullshitery of a snake oil salesman and regret things, or do they still feel abandoned and despised by the party that pretended to best represent them. Only a general election will tell. " Tbh it's a valid point in general that the op raises, the same question could equally be asked if those labour voters who brought into the con that was brexit who were then further duped by Boris and his bollocks of getting brexit done so they then voted Tory in 2019.. | |||
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"For a member of the G7 to have some of its police, nurses and firefighters using food banks is staggering.. It's only happened with those professions under this government.. Do you have any figures for this? I know many many nurses and none of them use foodbanks, nor know of anyone that does? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but I'd like to know actual figures." Not figures as per a spreadsheet no but the Nursing times covered it as recently as last month when truss dismissed the fact that some are, there was a report of one hospital setting up a foodbank internally .. The police federation have also reported it and I know from ex colleagues still serving that there are some firefighters mostly down south who have had to use them too.. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!)no not embarrassed about voting but that's different to the shower that's in charge You voted for the Tories under Johnson in Dec 2019 that’s a bit awkward!"Is this really the level of discussion you have? | |||
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"I don't think anyone would or should be embarrassed about how they voted before but if they were to vote conservative tomorrow under the current regime then they should be ashamed of themselves." Why, what's different to them now to the last few elections? | |||
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"Why should they feel embarrassed? They voted for what they wanted. " Did they get it? | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment." I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? " What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. " You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice? | |||
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"I'd rather Labour, (or anyone else for arguments sake), go and win the next GE. Not just rely on just being "less crap" than the current incumbents." Sadly, "less crap" is the best we can hope for. The only chance Labour, or anyone else have of getting elected is to secure the backing of billionaires and big corporations. The money from these donors and the support from the press win elections. The only way that support will shift from the Tories to anyone else, is if those corporate backers believe that someone else will serve them better. Which then becomes pointless for the rest of us, as there will be no significant change or improvement. I don't care what colour tie the PM wears, if it's someone who prioritises the needs of British people, then they will be good. But in my opinion, the current system prohibits this from happening. | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice?" Maybe. Seems pointless when there's no election. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? " Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice? Maybe. Seems pointless when there's no election." So them an opposition with no answer. Doesn't give the public much reason to start moving their voting intentions. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question?" Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't think anyone would or should be embarrassed about how they voted before but if they were to vote conservative tomorrow under the current regime then they should be ashamed of themselves. Why, what's different to them now to the last few elections?" Seriously ? You need to ask ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice? Maybe. Seems pointless when there's no election. So them an opposition with no answer. Doesn't give the public much reason to start moving their voting intentions." Have the Tories stuck to their manifesto promises ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured " But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted?" Let’s be honest, It was all about the cult of Brexit, they didn’t care about Boris or his policies, it was ‘get Brexit done’ at any cost, that is why we are in such a shit state right now | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted?" Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. " Having a PM voted in by 80,000 party members is not democracy either, we need a GE | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why should they feel embarrassed? They voted for what they wanted. Did they get it? " I doesn’t matter. That could have been any of the political parties. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Let’s be honest, It was all about the cult of Brexit, they didn’t care about Boris or his policies, it was ‘get Brexit done’ at any cost, that is why we are in such a shit state right now " Sadly undermining a national vote to indicate what people want to happen will do that and was a result of major not having a referendum on maastricht and many other governmental failures in not listening to the electorate for 20 years. Hence ukip etc and the rise of populism. The entirety of the big 3 parties were to blame for ignoring the electorate. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Having a PM voted in by 80,000 party members is not democracy either, we need a GE " Well it is. You vote for a party to govern. The party can choose who it's leader is at any time you want to change that. When labour are in. They can change the law. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Having a PM voted in by 80,000 party members is not democracy either, we need a GE Well it is. You vote for a party to govern. The party can choose who it's leader is at any time you want to change that. When labour are in. They can change the law." It really isn’t, time for GE | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice? Maybe. Seems pointless when there's no election. So them an opposition with no answer. Doesn't give the public much reason to start moving their voting intentions." Seems pointless trying to get people to change their voting intentions two years before a GE. "No answer" to which questions? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't think anyone would or should be embarrassed about how they voted before but if they were to vote conservative tomorrow under the current regime then they should be ashamed of themselves. Why, what's different to them now to the last few elections? Seriously ? You need to ask ?" Yes. It's been a clusterfuck for the country while they serve the needs of their corporate backers and their own bank accounts for the last 12 years. What's different now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice? Maybe. Seems pointless when there's no election. So them an opposition with no answer. Doesn't give the public much reason to start moving their voting intentions. Seems pointless trying to get people to change their voting intentions two years before a GE. "No answer" to which questions?" It'd pointless driving criticism of a pla without an alternative | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why should they feel embarrassed? They voted for what they wanted. Did they get it? I doesn’t matter. That could have been any of the political parties. " It most certainly does matter! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Having a PM voted in by 80,000 party members is not democracy either, we need a GE Well it is. You vote for a party to govern. The party can choose who it's leader is at any time you want to change that. When labour are in. They can change the law. It really isn’t, time for GE " Well I am sorry to say you don't vote for a pm. But a party. So they have the right to vote in a new leader. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Having a PM voted in by 80,000 party members is not democracy either, we need a GE Well it is. You vote for a party to govern. The party can choose who it's leader is at any time you want to change that. When labour are in. They can change the law. It really isn’t, time for GE Well I am sorry to say you don't vote for a pm. But a party. So they have the right to vote in a new leader." It is undemocratic, Truss is about to be removed, that is 3 PMs in less than 6 months, 4 and possibly then 5 chancellors all with a different plan , time for a GE , | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. " Voting in a party and their leader on the basis of a single (admittedly huge) issue without considering all the other issues that would create was naive at best and stupid or even destructive at worse! There is a lot of false equivalence in that list of sleaze. I think scale and impact matters. And call me old fashioned, but I believe the party in Government should be squeaky clean, cleaner than the opposition. Why? Because THEY are in the position to exploit the system to the benefit of themselves and cronies. They can set policy or push through legislation that benefits them and theirs. When the sleaze is in relation to the Executive it is several orders of magnitude worse in my opinion. | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? What are the policies for any of the parties on this? The manifestos are only published in a run up the the election. You don't need a manifesto for a policy. You can publicly declare one. Maybe some ideas to deal with these would be nice? Maybe. Seems pointless when there's no election. So them an opposition with no answer. Doesn't give the public much reason to start moving their voting intentions. Seems pointless trying to get people to change their voting intentions two years before a GE. "No answer" to which questions? It'd pointless driving criticism of a pla without an alternative" They do give alternatives on individual issues when being critical of the government, in questions and in interviews. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. " My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism " Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist? | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...?" PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist?" I think the predominantly right wing media narrative plus the swing to the right started around Brexit, means that many people now see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as being socialist. I would say Labour under Corbyn was moving more left due to the influence of Momentum, but even then were still not a full socialist party (to the annoyance of Momentum members). However, Starmer has been slowly pulling them back towards the centre ground (and getting called a Red Tory for doing it) so that Labour is a centre-left party. More Social Democrat then Socialist. Another reason for PR. Let’s get those extremes out in the open and disaggregated from internal influence in the major parties. | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist? I think the predominantly right wing media narrative plus the swing to the right started around Brexit, means that many people now see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as being socialist. I would say Labour under Corbyn was moving more left due to the influence of Momentum, but even then were still not a full socialist party (to the annoyance of Momentum members). However, Starmer has been slowly pulling them back towards the centre ground (and getting called a Red Tory for doing it) so that Labour is a centre-left party. More Social Democrat then Socialist. Another reason for PR. Let’s get those extremes out in the open and disaggregated from internal influence in the major parties." I generally agree. And I was asking to see if that was still the case with the Tory supporting people. I don't necessarily think that policies favouring people over profit are necessarily "socialist" although there is certainly overlap. | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Voting in a party and their leader on the basis of a single (admittedly huge) issue without considering all the other issues that would create was naive at best and stupid or even destructive at worse! There is a lot of false equivalence in that list of sleaze. I think scale and impact matters. And call me old fashioned, but I believe the party in Government should be squeaky clean, cleaner than the opposition. Why? Because THEY are in the position to exploit the system to the benefit of themselves and cronies. They can set policy or push through legislation that benefits them and theirs. When the sleaze is in relation to the Executive it is several orders of magnitude worse in my opinion." No false equivalence sorry. If you feel a party in governance should be squeaky clean. I suggest the only one you vote for is monster raving looney party. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. There is a whole thread explaining the Leicester thing. Has waaaay more to do with Hindu/Muslim tension than political party." I'll have to have a read of it. But it won't be an explanation - simply an opinion, which we're all entitled to. I don't see any religious 'tension' round here and it's disappointing to see people yet again paint Islam, or any other faith for that matter, as responsible for 'tension'. It plays to the extreme right wing gallery. Please don't do it. | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Voting in a party and their leader on the basis of a single (admittedly huge) issue without considering all the other issues that would create was naive at best and stupid or even destructive at worse! There is a lot of false equivalence in that list of sleaze. I think scale and impact matters. And call me old fashioned, but I believe the party in Government should be squeaky clean, cleaner than the opposition. Why? Because THEY are in the position to exploit the system to the benefit of themselves and cronies. They can set policy or push through legislation that benefits them and theirs. When the sleaze is in relation to the Executive it is several orders of magnitude worse in my opinion. No false equivalence sorry. If you feel a party in governance should be squeaky clean. I suggest the only one you vote for is monster raving looney party." That’s a pretty solemn and negative view of the world! We should all just give up and accept the lowest common denominator when it comes to behaviour in public office! I simply cannot share that view and will not resign myself to accepting sleaze as the norm. And sorry but it totally was false equivalence. For example, you listed “beergate”. Any charges once investigated (twice)? At the time people were trying to say it was as bad as “partygate” but there was simply no comparison in terms of scale, impact, frequency, seriousness and hypocrisy. That is the very essence of false equivalence! | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Voting in a party and their leader on the basis of a single (admittedly huge) issue without considering all the other issues that would create was naive at best and stupid or even destructive at worse! There is a lot of false equivalence in that list of sleaze. I think scale and impact matters. And call me old fashioned, but I believe the party in Government should be squeaky clean, cleaner than the opposition. Why? Because THEY are in the position to exploit the system to the benefit of themselves and cronies. They can set policy or push through legislation that benefits them and theirs. When the sleaze is in relation to the Executive it is several orders of magnitude worse in my opinion. No false equivalence sorry. If you feel a party in governance should be squeaky clean. I suggest the only one you vote for is monster raving looney party. That’s a pretty solemn and negative view of the world! We should all just give up and accept the lowest common denominator when it comes to behaviour in public office! I simply cannot share that view and will not resign myself to accepting sleaze as the norm. And sorry but it totally was false equivalence. For example, you listed “beergate”. Any charges once investigated (twice)? At the time people were trying to say it was as bad as “partygate” but there was simply no comparison in terms of scale, impact, frequency, seriousness and hypocrisy. That is the very essence of false equivalence! " I am merely pointing out to you. If you want a political party with mps whiter than white. I dont think any one in the current t commons can stand for election. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. " Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power? | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist? I think the predominantly right wing media narrative plus the swing to the right started around Brexit, means that many people now see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as being socialist. I would say Labour under Corbyn was moving more left due to the influence of Momentum, but even then were still not a full socialist party (to the annoyance of Momentum members). However, Starmer has been slowly pulling them back towards the centre ground (and getting called a Red Tory for doing it) so that Labour is a centre-left party. More Social Democrat then Socialist. Another reason for PR. Let’s get those extremes out in the open and disaggregated from internal influence in the major parties." Forget PR. Vote in 2011 was against. Nobody accepts results any more, if they don't like them. See 2014 Independence referendum, Brexit 2016, Johnson's landslide 2019 etc etc etc First Past the Post here to stay  | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist? I think the predominantly right wing media narrative plus the swing to the right started around Brexit, means that many people now see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as being socialist. I would say Labour under Corbyn was moving more left due to the influence of Momentum, but even then were still not a full socialist party (to the annoyance of Momentum members). However, Starmer has been slowly pulling them back towards the centre ground (and getting called a Red Tory for doing it) so that Labour is a centre-left party. More Social Democrat then Socialist. Another reason for PR. Let’s get those extremes out in the open and disaggregated from internal influence in the major parties. Forget PR. Vote in 2011 was against. Nobody accepts results any more, if they don't like them. See 2014 Independence referendum, Brexit 2016, Johnson's landslide 2019 etc etc etc First Past the Post here to stay "So things should never ever change for any reason? | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist? I think the predominantly right wing media narrative plus the swing to the right started around Brexit, means that many people now see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as being socialist. I would say Labour under Corbyn was moving more left due to the influence of Momentum, but even then were still not a full socialist party (to the annoyance of Momentum members). However, Starmer has been slowly pulling them back towards the centre ground (and getting called a Red Tory for doing it) so that Labour is a centre-left party. More Social Democrat then Socialist. Another reason for PR. Let’s get those extremes out in the open and disaggregated from internal influence in the major parties. Forget PR. Vote in 2011 was against. Nobody accepts results any more, if they don't like them. See 2014 Independence referendum, Brexit 2016, Johnson's landslide 2019 etc etc etc First Past the Post here to stay
So things should never ever change for any reason? "At least 30 years or so | |||
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"I haven’t ever voted in an election but I think in general am aligned closer with tory / libertarian principles than socialist / statist ones. They seem to be doing well , most people don’t want a better minimum wage or universal credit , they want something much better and Labour since Blair don’t know how to do it, they only know old fashioned socialism Interesting points. Why do you think most people don't want a better minimum wage or universal credit? Am I mistaken, or are you suggesting that the current Labour party are socialist? I think the predominantly right wing media narrative plus the swing to the right started around Brexit, means that many people now see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as being socialist. I would say Labour under Corbyn was moving more left due to the influence of Momentum, but even then were still not a full socialist party (to the annoyance of Momentum members). However, Starmer has been slowly pulling them back towards the centre ground (and getting called a Red Tory for doing it) so that Labour is a centre-left party. More Social Democrat then Socialist. Another reason for PR. Let’s get those extremes out in the open and disaggregated from internal influence in the major parties. Forget PR. Vote in 2011 was against. Nobody accepts results any more, if they don't like them. See 2014 Independence referendum, Brexit 2016, Johnson's landslide 2019 etc etc etc First Past the Post here to stay
So things should never ever change for any reason?
At least 30 years or so "Why should things not change for at least 30 years? | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency" Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace?" I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election." If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry." I don't know why anyone should be surprised by how he behaved as PM. If someone was embarrassed, that implies he did something unexpected. | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry." I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I don't know why anyone should be surprised by how he behaved as PM. If someone was embarrassed, that implies he did something unexpected." Be fair. Before he was PM, all we knew was that he was corrupt, a serial liar, a racist, a mysogynist, a homophobe etc. Who could have seen anything bad coming from this saintly figure? | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! " If you think he was hounded out over cake, I'm afraid you're shockingly ignorant. | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! " Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows." Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! " He was dismissed by his own party for lying about a sex pest, it is no wonder your so confused  | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....)" Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below." Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps? | |||
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"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps? "You're gonna be shocked if you ever realise the people who have been fucking us all over for the last twelve years are actually the Tories. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps?
You're gonna be shocked if you ever realise the people who have been fucking us all over for the last twelve years are actually the Tories."Good old Jezza, still living in some peoples head rent free | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps? "William Hague?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps?
William Hague? "Could the day of dorries finally come? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps?
William Hague?
Could the day of dorries finally come?"JRM | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps?
William Hague?
Could the day of dorries finally come?
JRM "I can beat that. Chris Grayling. Everything that man ever touched went to shit. Imagine how much damage he could do as PM. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps?
William Hague?
Could the day of dorries finally come?
JRM
I can beat that. Chris Grayling. Everything that man ever touched went to shit. Imagine how much damage he could do as PM."Good call, anything is possible, after all, they just appointed Thick Lizzie | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps? "Ah good old Corbyn! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'd be more embarrassed to say that I was one of the few who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I don't feel any shame or embarrassment for voting for Boris at least he had a bit of charisma. After James Heapeys interview (he's our Mp), If there was an election tomorrow, I'd vote for the Lib dems. Labour have always come third in our constituency Why do you feel no embarrassment for voting for a serial liar who is a lawbreaker? A man who was forced out of office in disgrace? I don't think they do. This is why I'm not hopeful for anything positive from another election. If I'd voted for Johnson, I don't think I'd feel embarrassed, to be fair. I think I'd feel angry. Very angry. I voted for him. And yes, I was angry that the man with the mandate was hounded out of his job over cake. Such is the rolling 24 hour news feeding frenzy. I said at the time, be careful what you wish for! Nothing to do with anything other than cake eh? Haha. But yes, I agree, people were upbeat and excited when he lost his job. But arguably Truss is even worse, and the next one would be worse again. Who knows. Ah but how can the next Tory PM possibly be worse? (Hmmm feels like we've been here before....) Everytime it feels like they've reached the bottom of the barrel, they find another layer of rotten below. Any further layers removed and who knows who they'll find? Corbyn perhaps?
William Hague?
Could the day of dorries finally come?
JRM "Fuck no! Lol. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. " Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? | |||
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"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. " You know, "winning an election" isn't the end point. It's supposed to be "doing a good job for British people as the party in government". | |||
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"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. " Or not as bad as it is now.. | |||
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"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Or not as bad as it is now.. "He might not even have used to pandemic to get the party donors fast tracked multi million £ contracts for dodgy PPE to the cost of billions to the tax payer. What a nightmare. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Or not as bad as it is now..
He might not even have used to pandemic to get the party donors fast tracked multi million £ contracts for dodgy PPE to the cost of billions to the tax payer.
What a nightmare."Exactly, this whole well yeah it's totally shit now and we accept it's a self inflicted wound but what about etc.. Well etc isn't in power so it's just the usual deflective bollocks trotted out by the head in the sand lot.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? " Absolutely, over the moon. Not. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power? "Dear dear, my reply was to you taking a rise in a week in the index, as a indicator that all was rosy and upwards. Glad you feel that way, wish the Chancellor did too. Well anyway glad your happy with the performance of the current incumbents at Downing Street. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? Absolutely, over the moon. Not." Fair enough, GE then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? Absolutely, over the moon. Not. Fair enough, GE then? " I don't see why not, the country is in a dire state and the Conservatives need a kick up the ass, they're taking the pee out of the people that voted for them. The original question was an I embarrassed because I voted for Conservative last time? I'm definitely not embarrassed and don't even feel that I should be. As I said, I wouldn't vote for them right now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? Absolutely, over the moon. Not. Fair enough, GE then? I don't see why not, the country is in a dire state and the Conservatives need a kick up the ass, they're taking the pee out of the people that voted for them. The original question was an I embarrassed because I voted for Conservative last time? I'm definitely not embarrassed and don't even feel that I should be. As I said, I wouldn't vote for them right now." Do you regret voting for them? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power?
Dear dear, my reply was to you taking a rise in a week in the index, as a indicator that all was rosy and upwards.
Glad you feel that way, wish the Chancellor did too.
Well anyway glad your happy with the performance of the current incumbents at Downing Street."It's not all rosy but there's room now for optimism. The FTSE 100 has just about made a comeback to 7,000 levels, but the recent dip has revealed some incredible bargains. So to the contributor who said his 'FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%', why not look to capitalise on this drop before the market rebounds fully? Your Financial Advisor, if you have one, should be looking at this. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? Absolutely, over the moon. Not. Fair enough, GE then? I don't see why not, the country is in a dire state and the Conservatives need a kick up the ass, they're taking the pee out of the people that voted for them. The original question was an I embarrassed because I voted for Conservative last time? I'm definitely not embarrassed and don't even feel that I should be. As I said, I wouldn't vote for them right now. Do you regret voting for them? " No I don't, I feel it was the best option at the time. We all knew about Brexit but nobody knew what was coming with Covid and Ukraine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would I feel embarrassed about voting for a person that wins elections, rather than someone that looses elections? True it didn't turn out as we'd hoped and I was very angry over the parties etc and felt like Boris had let down all the people that had voted for him to be Prime Minister. We'll never know if it would have been worse with Jeremy Corbyn as PM. Fair comment, are you happy with Truss? Absolutely, over the moon. Not. Fair enough, GE then? I don't see why not, the country is in a dire state and the Conservatives need a kick up the ass, they're taking the pee out of the people that voted for them. The original question was an I embarrassed because I voted for Conservative last time? I'm definitely not embarrassed and don't even feel that I should be. As I said, I wouldn't vote for them right now. Do you regret voting for them? No I don't, I feel it was the best option at the time. We all knew about Brexit but nobody knew what was coming with Covid and Ukraine." I agree, we all voted our way and are entitled to do so. If a GE were called now I certainly wouldn't be voting Tory but that doesn't mean I'd automatically be voting Labour. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power?
Dear dear, my reply was to you taking a rise in a week in the index, as a indicator that all was rosy and upwards.
Glad you feel that way, wish the Chancellor did too.
Well anyway glad your happy with the performance of the current incumbents at Downing Street.
It's not all rosy but there's room now for optimism. The FTSE 100 has just about made a comeback to 7,000 levels, but the recent dip has revealed some incredible bargains. So to the contributor who said his 'FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%', why not look to capitalise on this drop before the market rebounds fully? Your Financial Advisor, if you have one, should be looking at this. "The bargains are going to start next year. So saving my cash until then. | |||
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"I think embarrassed is the right choice of word and yes red wall tory voters in 2019, it applies to them too. The sleaze and scandal surrounding this current crop of Tories is unreal... Since the Truss administration has been in power, her chief of staff, Mark Fullbrook, has been involved in six nationally reported scandals, all within the space of just over a month. It simply beggars belief. Surely even most Tory voters are tired of it? Surely most Tory voters must be thinking that this party no longer represents my views? Surely most Tory voters think it is time for the party to have a break from government. Regroup. Take stock. Expel the ERG (or whatever they have now rebranded as) elements who have dragged a centre-right party fully to the right. Get back to core values. Stop the influence of Matthew Elliot and the Tufton St mafia. Stop the cycle of fear of the likes of UKIP etc started by Cameron. The Conservatives need a “New Labour” moment. I think k it's high time labour put together something meaningful. I'm a floating voter. I've voted lib dem, Conservative and independent over the years. Labour need to win me over Currently I won't be voting tory or Labour. Tory because they've ditched Conservative principles. I can't vote labour because quite frankly I don't know what they stand for. With every lockdown decision they backed and wanted more. More lo knows, more money printing. Under corbyn. We were lied to in 2017 about his position on a ref on e.u He then finally came out and declared his labour wanted to undermine the referendum. That didn't really leave much of a choice for many in the red wall. I honestly dont know what starmer stands for. He's removes the whip from 2 people in his party but we don't know why. For every tory scandal there's a labour one. Their 2 sides of the same coin. His energy policy? What is it..no fracking...more green? But green subsidies are expensive and on many days win simply doesn't produce enough energy. But they don't want more gas or oil rights going out. So thay leaves us at the mercy of imports. How does he intend to deal with the illegal immigrants. It now turns out 40% are from Albania but we can't deport them. What are his priorities regarding trade deals we are forging? What's his plan on taxes. He support 75% of the mini budget. What's the future tax plans? Investment plans What's his future defense policy with Ukraine? And the wide scope aukus Whats his stance on the nip and addressing the issues there. How is he going to address spending on the nhs more government bonds Maybe expecting opposition to have policies and make them known to the voting public is too much? Some fair challenges there for all opposition parties not just Labour. But that isn’t the point of this thread and all too often these threads get derailed by whataboutism. Feel free to start a thread on the lack of visibility of policies by the opposition parties. It would be an interesting discussion. This thread is about people who voted Tory and how they feel now based on what has happened over 12 years (and in particular since 2019). What are your views on that question? Tbf the greens often cite theirs. The only problem is they are fiscally unworkable. I dont think what I posted is whataboutism. You asked if the tory voters were embarrassed. I can't think why they would be if there's not erious alternative with a plan for the time being. And particularly in the case of the disastrous labour/ libdem 2019 election campaign. Red wall etc were left no choice. Many life long labour voters were left with only 1 options to ensure their democratic vote was honoured But did they get what they voted for? When they ticked that box did they vote for sleaze and scandal? Infighting? Profiteering? National security breaches? Cronyism on an unprecedented scale? Ineptitude? Economic mismanagement? Etc etc etc? When people voted for a Boris Johnson led tory party, most of the warning signs were there. It IS embarrassing for real Conservatives. They must surely be heartbroken by what has happened to their party? Surely the current party doesn’t truly represent what they wanted? Well yes. Most voted thay way to have their referendum vote honoured. As I say. In politics Seale works both ways. Lib dems have just been fined to day for improper declarations of funding. Lammy got scolded for I think the 3rd time for improper declarations. 2 whips withdrawn without a declared reason. Anna soubry caught posting a picture of her speeding. ( law breakers can't be law makers was the term a certain shadow leader used) Rachel reeves caught misleading on the mini udhet Atarmer caught lying about his curry night. Snp seemingly inventing numbers on their ferry costs. Nicola sturgeon lying in the salmond inquiry. In all honesty. There's very little difference in the sleaze when you take off the blinkers all pigs with snouts in the trough. Sadly. With the economic ineptitude I agree. I'm from the Austrian school of economics. And what we are seeing is mmt madness! But as I say. Labour want more spending and less tax receipts. So I don't see this changing when they get in. I consider myself a fiscal / monetry Conservative but in the main a lib dem (particularly when paddy ran the party, on other social and law areas) At the next election. I won't be voting. I voted bojo. Because brexit needed to be honoured. I dont like how the press have de idea who should run the country its embarrassing that they are trying to get sunak in who comprehensively lost the vote and are looking at removing liz and replacing without a members vote That's not democracy. Voting in a party and their leader on the basis of a single (admittedly huge) issue without considering all the other issues that would create was naive at best and stupid or even destructive at worse! There is a lot of false equivalence in that list of sleaze. I think scale and impact matters. And call me old fashioned, but I believe the party in Government should be squeaky clean, cleaner than the opposition. Why? Because THEY are in the position to exploit the system to the benefit of themselves and cronies. They can set policy or push through legislation that benefits them and theirs. When the sleaze is in relation to the Executive it is several orders of magnitude worse in my opinion." That's bad news for the SNP about voting for a single huge issue in a GE. I believe that is the SNP plan B if the court case goes against them. | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . " A few short term problems! WTF | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power?
Dear dear, my reply was to you taking a rise in a week in the index, as a indicator that all was rosy and upwards.
Glad you feel that way, wish the Chancellor did too.
Well anyway glad your happy with the performance of the current incumbents at Downing Street.
It's not all rosy but there's room now for optimism. The FTSE 100 has just about made a comeback to 7,000 levels, but the recent dip has revealed some incredible bargains. So to the contributor who said his 'FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%', why not look to capitalise on this drop before the market rebounds fully? Your Financial Advisor, if you have one, should be looking at this. "Are you another version of Pat? | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power?
Dear dear, my reply was to you taking a rise in a week in the index, as a indicator that all was rosy and upwards.
Glad you feel that way, wish the Chancellor did too.
Well anyway glad your happy with the performance of the current incumbents at Downing Street.
It's not all rosy but there's room now for optimism. The FTSE 100 has just about made a comeback to 7,000 levels, but the recent dip has revealed some incredible bargains. So to the contributor who said his 'FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%', why not look to capitalise on this drop before the market rebounds fully? Your Financial Advisor, if you have one, should be looking at this.
Are you another version of Pat?"Am I supposed to know who Pat is or what you mean?  | |||
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"Problems within the party I agree but what is the alternative one may ask " Have a guess… | |||
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"Problems within the party I agree but what is the alternative one may ask " Anything but more of the same surely! The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. Give the other guys a chance because what we have now simply isn’t working! | |||
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"Think Maximus in Gladiator stomping around the backwater arena in North Africa shouting “are you not entertained?” Well Tory voters “are you not embarrassed?” What an utter utter shitshow. I say this as a centrist with no particular loyalty to Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Not footballisation of politics for me... The Tories are a shambles! Time overdue for a change. They are lost. Up the creek. No paddle (or even knowledge how to use a paddle, or a boat, or know what a creek is in fact?!). Why would anyone be embarrassed . ? The Conservatives have won three elections in a row. Only a fool would give up because of a few short term problems. What the public think today is irrelevant . We has just sailed through a storm. What is crucial is what the public think in two years time . Four in a row. But I agree, there are a certain proportion of the Conservative voters who are just so detached from reality and in such complete denial about what's going on in Britain. Yes, but they're not detached from their shares crashing, houe values crashing. Its the markets that will decide the fate of the Conservatives. The FTSE 100 is up about 200 points from last Thursday. I see no evidence yet of a house price crash. House repossession rates are at all time lows. Unemployment at all time low rates. If you think Captain Hindsight can lead us to soaring share and house prices, when the after-effects of covid and Ukraine will still be being felt after the forthcoming alleged Labour renaissance, prepare to be disappointed. Last Thursday, by the way, saw a sensational Council ward victory for the Tories in Leicester East, with Labour reduced to third place behind the Greens. A Labour Party spokesperson sheepishly said "Obviously it's a disappointing result compared to what we were expecting and it is clear that the Council and the elected representatives have to do more to deliver for the people if they really want their vote" Well, the same can be said nationally. Labour appear to think they can cruise to a landslide on the back of Tory woes. Wrong. Anyone writing the Tories off just yet is deluded and prematurely optimistic. The markets are steadying after the U turn and then what? Captain Hindsight can't blame Truss for Ukraine and Covid. Don't get me wrong, her position is still critical but probably now stable. People are often very sober and serious in that voting booth; don't be fooled as many were in the early 90s by stellar Labour leads in polls. My point was that Tory voters are not detached from the market. Are you saying they are...? PS The FTSE 100 might have rose 200 points since Thursday. But my FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%. Mine was down by much more than this after 9/11 in 2001 and then again in 2008. But it came back. If you don't need the money right now, it is just a paper loss. Don't confirm it by cashing things in. By the way, it was New Labour at the helm on those two occasions. Cue the anti Tory brigade saying those crashes were caused by exogenous global events. Ukraine /Covid anyone? Or is it different when the Tories are in power?
Dear dear, my reply was to you taking a rise in a week in the index, as a indicator that all was rosy and upwards.
Glad you feel that way, wish the Chancellor did too.
Well anyway glad your happy with the performance of the current incumbents at Downing Street.
It's not all rosy but there's room now for optimism. The FTSE 100 has just about made a comeback to 7,000 levels, but the recent dip has revealed some incredible bargains. So to the contributor who said his 'FTSE 100 index linked fund investment is still down 7.7%', why not look to capitalise on this drop before the market rebounds fully? Your Financial Advisor, if you have one, should be looking at this.
Are you another version of Pat?
Am I supposed to know who Pat is or what you mean? "If you don’t know….you really aren’t paying attention to the forum | |||
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"I don't have time to unravel obscure references. You could just provide the answer "It's someone who has multiple accounts and posts satirical posts in blind support of the government/brexit etc. Lots of copy and paste from the Daily Express website. | |||
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"I don't have time to unravel obscure references. You could just provide the answer
It's someone who has multiple accounts and posts satirical posts in blind support of the government/brexit etc.
Lots of copy and paste from the Daily Express website."Thanks For the record, I don't give blind support to the Tories and twice voted Labour before Iraq. QED, I don't have blind hatred of Labour. It's not hard to find me on here talking about turbulence caused by Truss going too far too fast. Let Pat believe what she wants though - that's democracy. Some of the attempts by lefties to silence Conservatives on here are shameful. 'Imbeciles' is the latest recorded trolling in that respect. We are all human beings, and abuse like that could cause some serious alarm and distress. | |||
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"I don't have time to unravel obscure references. You could just provide the answer
It's someone who has multiple accounts and posts satirical posts in blind support of the government/brexit etc.
Lots of copy and paste from the Daily Express website.
Thanks
For the record, I don't give blind support to the Tories and twice voted Labour before Iraq. QED, I don't have blind hatred of Labour. It's not hard to find me on here talking about turbulence caused by Truss going too far too fast.
Let Pat believe what she wants though - that's democracy. Some of the attempts by lefties to silence Conservatives on here are shameful. 'Imbeciles' is the latest recorded trolling in that respect. We are all human beings, and abuse like that could cause some serious alarm and distress. "Pat is a man (I think) , I don’t ‘hate’ the tories but I hate the way this lot (who I think are more UKIP than Tory) are wrecking the country | |||
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"I don't have time to unravel obscure references. You could just provide the answer
It's someone who has multiple accounts and posts satirical posts in blind support of the government/brexit etc.
Lots of copy and paste from the Daily Express website.
Thanks
For the record, I don't give blind support to the Tories and twice voted Labour before Iraq. QED, I don't have blind hatred of Labour. It's not hard to find me on here talking about turbulence caused by Truss going too far too fast.
Let Pat believe what she wants though - that's democracy. Some of the attempts by lefties to silence Conservatives on here are shameful. 'Imbeciles' is the latest recorded trolling in that respect. We are all human beings, and abuse like that could cause some serious alarm and distress. "It's nice to be nice. There's a line between picking apart what someone posts, and having a go at the person. Also, it's not only the left who are critical of the Tories. | |||
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"I don't have time to unravel obscure references. You could just provide the answer
It's someone who has multiple accounts and posts satirical posts in blind support of the government/brexit etc.
Lots of copy and paste from the Daily Express website.
Thanks
For the record, I don't give blind support to the Tories and twice voted Labour before Iraq. QED, I don't have blind hatred of Labour. It's not hard to find me on here talking about turbulence caused by Truss going too far too fast.
Let Pat believe what she wants though - that's democracy. Some of the attempts by lefties to silence Conservatives on here are shameful. 'Imbeciles' is the latest recorded trolling in that respect. We are all human beings, and abuse like that could cause some serious alarm and distress.
Pat is a man (I think) , I don’t ‘hate’ the tories but I hate the way this lot (who I think are more UKIP than Tory) are wrecking the country "My apologies, chiefly to Pat. Should have said "Let Pat believe what they want" to cover the bases. In the offline world, I only know 3 Pats and they're all women so I blame that! | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever." C'mon Liz! You can do it! | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it!" An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it! An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. " Are you watching the news and/or reading the papers? I would hazard a guess that you don’t often place bets? | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it! An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. " Resilient 
As resilient as a fighter moved into the wrong weight category by someone who will benefit from the bout but who is in the ropes punch d*unk..
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" The Tories in wales got a good dressing down https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-63303690.amp" Labour are responsible for the NHS in Wales? Seems to me it was a fair question to ask. Clearly he didn’t want to answer the question | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it! An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. " Strong Pat vibes. Not offering unreserved support in the face of reality at all | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it! An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. Strong Pat vibes. Not offering unreserved support in the face of reality at all "Very strong Pat vibes. | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it! An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. " TBF it's not Labour who she needs to show resolve against. | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it! An immediate challenge does not look likely. She was resilient at PMQs. The 31/10 statement is key and how it lands with the markets. Strong Pat vibes. Not offering unreserved support in the face of reality at all
Very strong Pat vibes."Dave is the new Pat, or maybe Dave is the old Pat but now called Dave, | |||
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"Suella Braverman was the shortest-serving Home Secretary for 188 years. Kwasi Kwarteng was the shortest-serving Chancellor for 52 years. Liz Truss can beat that. If she goes before Christmas she'll be the shortest-serving UK Prime Minister ever. C'mon Liz! You can do it!" She only has to go less than 119 days to get that badge… It’s good to have something to aim for especially when all your other ambitions have been public binned by your chancellor. | |||
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"I know let's bring back Sir Tony . He knows how to make afew Bob and also send soldiers to die for nothing . Good old Labour . How much was he charging for doing an hours chat on the old boys circuit. There all the same we are doomed I telk you . "Don’t cry, the Tories might have a ‘fuck up free’ day tomorrow and when did Sir Tony become the labour leader | |||
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"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . " The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? | |||
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""the really ones"? "the really bad ones, it should say. Typo. (You're easily shocked, it seems. Bless.) | |||
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"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same?" As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! | |||
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""the really ones"?
the really bad ones, it should say. Typo.
(You're easily shocked, it seems. Bless.)
"Not at all. Just helps if you don't miss entire words out of the. | |||
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"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease." It always has been in the past! | |||
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"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! " Who do you want as the next Tory leader? | |||
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"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years!" Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here "As is irony.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! " 1997-2007 would disagree with you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! Who do you want as the next Tory leader? " Ben Wallace | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you" Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here
As is irony.. "Historical amnesia? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 " 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos " Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in?" Brexit and the voters | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here
As is irony..
Historical amnesia? "Totally but not surprising.. If we want a better politics, one which fits the country and the citizens of this country truly deserve as a modern democracy with all the caveats therein then we simply have to accept that all the issues you one state can't be looked at in such a blatantly one sided view.. Highlighting all the similarities in this latest administration only ends up in reciprocal, cyclical maybe cynical whataboutery.. And meanwhile the whole shoddy gravy train (which many join to ride the wheels off and personally gain from and yes others genuinely and with heartfelt intent join to try and make a difference to real issues that affect people) rumbles on.. At the moment it seems Graham Brady is about to initiate a change of driver.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in?" People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. " Exactly, I would really like to know what they think now... Do they think for one moment that their decision has any part to play in the state of the economy and the chaos that is unfolding before us, I bet they don't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. Exactly, I would really like to know what they think now... Do they think for one moment that their decision has any part to play in the state of the economy and the chaos that is unfolding before us, I bet they don't. " It is quite clear those prepared to respond on this thread either double down or cannot admit to embarrassment. They are culpable for this mess. Regardless of their reasons, they made a bad decision. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos " Shouldn't have got rid of Boris then! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. Exactly, I would really like to know what they think now... Do they think for one moment that their decision has any part to play in the state of the economy and the chaos that is unfolding before us, I bet they don't. " Did you know covid was on the way in Dec 2019? Or that Putin would invade Ukraine in Feb 2022? No, neither did 14m Tory voters. So why would any one of us be accountable or embarrassed? I'd have been embarrassed if I'd not played my part in stopping Commie Corbyn getting his hands on power. | |||
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"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here
As is irony..
Historical amnesia?
Totally but not surprising..
If we want a better politics, one which fits the country and the citizens of this country truly deserve as a modern democracy with all the caveats therein then we simply have to accept that all the issues you one state can't be looked at in such a blatantly one sided view..
Highlighting all the similarities in this latest administration only ends up in reciprocal, cyclical maybe cynical whataboutery..
And meanwhile the whole shoddy gravy train (which many join to ride the wheels off and personally gain from and yes others genuinely and with heartfelt intent join to try and make a difference to real issues that affect people) rumbles on..
At the moment it seems Graham Brady is about to initiate a change of driver..
"You're probably right. We will have to see. Let's hope if she goes, we get Ben Wallace rather than Sunak | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. Exactly, I would really like to know what they think now... Do they think for one moment that their decision has any part to play in the state of the economy and the chaos that is unfolding before us, I bet they don't. It is quite clear those prepared to respond on this thread either double down or cannot admit to embarrassment. They are culpable for this mess. Regardless of their reasons, they made a bad decision." Are you 'culpable' for 'no money' and New Labour sleaze? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here
As is irony..
Historical amnesia?
Totally but not surprising..
If we want a better politics, one which fits the country and the citizens of this country truly deserve as a modern democracy with all the caveats therein then we simply have to accept that all the issues you one state can't be looked at in such a blatantly one sided view..
Highlighting all the similarities in this latest administration only ends up in reciprocal, cyclical maybe cynical whataboutery..
And meanwhile the whole shoddy gravy train (which many join to ride the wheels off and personally gain from and yes others genuinely and with heartfelt intent join to try and make a difference to real issues that affect people) rumbles on..
At the moment it seems Graham Brady is about to initiate a change of driver..
You're probably right. We will have to see. Let's hope if she goes, we get Ben Wallace rather than Sunak "Your getting Sunak or Hunt and you have absolutely no say in the matter | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. Exactly, I would really like to know what they think now... Do they think for one moment that their decision has any part to play in the state of the economy and the chaos that is unfolding before us, I bet they don't. It is quite clear those prepared to respond on this thread either double down or cannot admit to embarrassment. They are culpable for this mess. Regardless of their reasons, they made a bad decision. Are you 'culpable' for 'no money' and New Labour sleaze? " Yeah, we get the politicians and leaders we deserve | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We need a general election. Labour sweeping to power. Let’s then hope the cure is not worse than the disease. It always has been in the past! 1997-2007 would disagree with you Sadly, we had to endure them until 2010 2019, 80 seat majority, Brexit Boris at the helm, 2022 party in turmoil , Truss about to resign, 30 points behind in the polls , chaos Who put the tories that far ahead and could be said to be responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in? People who were effectively conned by brexit, who then swallowed the myth that Boris would get 'brexit done' and level up etc.. Exactly, I would really like to know what they think now... Do they think for one moment that their decision has any part to play in the state of the economy and the chaos that is unfolding before us, I bet they don't. It is quite clear those prepared to respond on this thread either double down or cannot admit to embarrassment. They are culpable for this mess. Regardless of their reasons, they made a bad decision. Are you 'culpable' for 'no money' and New Labour sleaze? " It was perfectly possible to know what kind of PM Johnson was going to make and who he would surround himself with in Cabinet. Corrupt to the core. Vote for shit get shit! And all because “we want our wittle pwecious bwexit” No fan of Corbyn but he actually would have done a better job and certainly showed more compassion for normal people. Things people laughed at such as universal nationalised broadband and nationalised utilities looks almost prescient now! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here
As is irony..
Historical amnesia?
Totally but not surprising..
If we want a better politics, one which fits the country and the citizens of this country truly deserve as a modern democracy with all the caveats therein then we simply have to accept that all the issues you one state can't be looked at in such a blatantly one sided view..
Highlighting all the similarities in this latest administration only ends up in reciprocal, cyclical maybe cynical whataboutery..
And meanwhile the whole shoddy gravy train (which many join to ride the wheels off and personally gain from and yes others genuinely and with heartfelt intent join to try and make a difference to real issues that affect people) rumbles on..
At the moment it seems Graham Brady is about to initiate a change of driver..
You're probably right. We will have to see. Let's hope if she goes, we get Ben Wallace rather than Sunak "It's reported on local news that he doesn't want it at this time .. Sunak has more support among the party's MP's and pretty much what he said would happen if truss won't has happened so whilst the Boris supporters might not be keen they might be over ruled.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Read the post again I said bring back and he was there prime minster for ten odd years . I'm not agreeing with any party . The problem is the whole they're all as bad as each other mantra just lets the really ones get into power + hold onto power. It's also wrong. do you truly think all politicians are the same? As I said further up... The idea that “they’re all as bad as each other” is a myth propagated by right wing media and commentators to normalise the bad behaviour of the Tory govt and keep them in power to continue benefitting the right wing media owners and their circle. There are always outliers and bad eggs but the volume, frequency and scale of scandal/sleaze has grown exponentially in the last five years! Do you really believe this? Passport's for the Hinduja brothers, Mandelson's mortgage application, sacked twice, cash for peerages, cannabis found in the home of Defence Secretary, Dr John Reid, Prescott and his secretary, shady bungs from businessmen, lying lobbyists, Lord Irvine's wallpaper, ministers on the make, expenses fiddled and Loans for Lordships! Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary during the Iraq War, admitted on camera that he aimed to turn the contacts he had gained while part of the British Government into 'something that frankly makes money'. Do you forget Bernie Eccleston? The depths of incompetence reached by New Labour ministers was frankly scary (Steve 'Pants' Byers also comes to mind)! Let's repeat it all over again! Far from being a myth, you know this isn't even the half of it! So many Labour MPs were communists at university or claim to be socialists. Yet as soon as the chance to line their own pockets comes up, they forget their principles, and dive into the trough. It will happen again and is always bigger in scale than the Tories. Whataboutery is essential here
As is irony..
Historical amnesia?
Totally but not surprising..
If we want a better politics, one which fits the country and the citizens of this country truly deserve as a modern democracy with all the caveats therein then we simply have to accept that all the issues you one state can't be looked at in such a blatantly one sided view..
Highlighting all the similarities in this latest administration only ends up in reciprocal, cyclical maybe cynical whataboutery..
And meanwhile the whole shoddy gravy train (which many join to ride the wheels off and personally gain from and yes others genuinely and with heartfelt intent join to try and make a difference to real issues that affect people) rumbles on..
At the moment it seems Graham Brady is about to initiate a change of driver..
You're probably right. We will have to see. Let's hope if she goes, we get Ben Wallace rather than Sunak
Your getting Sunak or Hunt and you have absolutely no say in the matter "Possibly both as the one and two.. | |||
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"Truss really is toast. Resigned and gone. Another leadership election coming!" We need a general election.. This Tory farce needs to be put out to pasture, as a government it's gone.. | |||
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"Tory voters you should hang your head in shame! What an absolutely awful shambles. Seriously, complete chaos! I truly hope you look at the last 12 years and digest the crap they have caused!"  | |||
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