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France helping Germany with Gas..
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
France has sent gas to Germany for the first time in "European solidarity" amid increasing energy pressures.
The gas, delivered via a pipeline, is part of a deal between the countries to ease energy shortfalls after Russian turned off the taps to Europe.
Hmm, considering the so called 'Dynamic and Robust UK Energy System" the government claim we have is reliant on supplies from Germany during Winter as we decommissioned our storage in 2017 - I don't expect Germany to be sharing it with us as we've done nothing to guarantee their stocks.
And 67% of our Electricity today came from Gas. Wait until the electric heaters and lights get switched on in a few weeks around tea time. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Since our storage was closed, we've Imported from Germany during high demand, drawing on their storage.
If there are agreements to supply the UK, they'll declare Force majeure due "to unforseen circumstances".
We have been sending Norwegian gas via Holland to Germany but the day the media announced it, Russia further restricted NORD STREAM1 flow in retaliation.
We can only give what we're not burning as we have no storage. That may change this week, but we need windy days to free up gas demand. |
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The uk typically supplies 50% of its gas from domestic reserves.
Of tbe remaining 50% 77% of that comes from Norway.
We now also have interconnections meaning we should even need to bring in the gas but the electricity can be sent directly from Norway.
We import more gas from Qatar and USA than the e.u.
You shouldn't worry.
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Since our storage was closed, we've Imported from Germany during high demand, drawing on their storage.
If there are agreements to supply the UK, they'll declare Force majeure due "to unforseen circumstances".
We have been sending Norwegian gas via Holland to Germany but the day the media announced it, Russia further restricted NORD STREAM1 flow in retaliation.
We can only give what we're not burning as we have no storage. That may change this week, but we need windy days to free up gas demand."
Are Germany storing our supplies?
I get the cut off if Germany cant provide for themselves, and we are pulling on their supplies, but if they are storing our gas I would expect that deal to be honoured. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"The uk typically supplies 50% of its gas from domestic reserves.
Of tbe remaining 50% 77% of that comes from Norway.
We now also have interconnections meaning we should even need to bring in the gas but the electricity can be sent directly from Norway.
We import more gas from Qatar and USA than the e.u.
You shouldn't worry.
"
I gather you did not hear about "the electricity sent direct from Norway" and the Electricity sent direct from France on that matter this Winter?
Also a fair chunk of the 23% of the 50% that Norway supply the 77% is mainly from LNG (but, ONLY while a boat is docked) - you may not know we can't store a boat load of gas, hence it is usually transferred to German storage who return it back as we demand on it.
We're nothing but an LNG offloading terminal for the EU but no storage onshore here.
LNG is being bought by other EU countries who are now competing on the open market for it, pushing prices up and limiting supply, hence buying Australian LNG and shipping it half way across the globe.
I gather you've not heard about the LNG plant in Texas exploding?
We've not had US gas Dock here for months, hence a glut of gas in the US, making gas cheap over there as they can't load it onto boats.
So, I'd be very worried... |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"Since our storage was closed, we've Imported from Germany during high demand, drawing on their storage.
If there are agreements to supply the UK, they'll declare Force majeure due "to unforseen circumstances".
We have been sending Norwegian gas via Holland to Germany but the day the media announced it, Russia further restricted NORD STREAM1 flow in retaliation.
We can only give what we're not burning as we have no storage. That may change this week, but we need windy days to free up gas demand.
Are Germany storing our supplies?
I get the cut off if Germany cant provide for themselves, and we are pulling on their supplies, but if they are storing our gas I would expect that deal to be honoured."
Germany has the EUs largest gas storage capacity. We use it as a buffer as we simply can't store it.
Now Germany is short, its whether they send back supply to a country that's done Sod All to help conserve Gas and help them store it. Hence Rees Mogg's attempt at a Government Energy saving Campaign that Truss overruled him on.
The ONLY thing Mogg has done that I support, was to try and reduce consumption here to allow more into storage as Europe were trying to do.
They've tried to conserve 15% to store for Winter, what did we do?
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Three times during the Summer heatwaves, we came close to literally running out of power.
Belgium stepped in to support our Grid at an eye watering £5000 per kilowatt.
What happens when Winter electric heaters and lights are on, are we going to continue relying on very expensive electricity or does National Grid pay people £10 for every kwh they don't use during peak times at 500th the cost? |
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"Three times during the Summer heatwaves, we came close to literally running out of power.
Belgium stepped in to support our Grid at an eye watering £5000 per kilowatt."
It was actually £9,724.54 per megawatt hour, megawatts being 1000x larger than kilowatts. That's about 50x the normal price, or 5,000% if you're being sensationalist. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Three times during the Summer heatwaves, we came close to literally running out of power.
Belgium stepped in to support our Grid at an eye watering £5000 per kilowatt.
It was actually £9,724.54 per megawatt hour, megawatts being 1000x larger than kilowatts. That's about 50x the normal price, or 5,000% if you're being sensationalist."
The pesky Belgiums charged us 50x the normal price of energy?
I thought Belgium was a nice country, not any more.
Out of interest and this could be a stupid question... If we were still part of the EU, would that price still have been 50x more or do they have trade / supply deals that would have prevented that type of profiteering? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The uk typically supplies 50% of its gas from domestic reserves.
Of tbe remaining 50% 77% of that comes from Norway.
We now also have interconnections meaning we should even need to bring in the gas but the electricity can be sent directly from Norway.
We import more gas from Qatar and USA than the e.u.
You shouldn't worry.
"
don't the EU have first dibs on has from Norway? Thought that was part of their EEA agreement. Could be wrong. A while since I had this discussion. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Three times during the Summer heatwaves, we came close to literally running out of power.
Belgium stepped in to support our Grid at an eye watering £5000 per kilowatt.
It was actually £9,724.54 per megawatt hour, megawatts being 1000x larger than kilowatts. That's about 50x the normal price, or 5,000% if you're being sensationalist."
Lol  |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Since our storage was closed, we've Imported from Germany during high demand, drawing on their storage.
If there are agreements to supply the UK, they'll declare Force majeure due "to unforseen circumstances".
We have been sending Norwegian gas via Holland to Germany but the day the media announced it, Russia further restricted NORD STREAM1 flow in retaliation.
We can only give what we're not burning as we have no storage. That may change this week, but we need windy days to free up gas demand.
Are Germany storing our supplies?
I get the cut off if Germany cant provide for themselves, and we are pulling on their supplies, but if they are storing our gas I would expect that deal to be honoured.
Germany has the EUs largest gas storage capacity. We use it as a buffer as we simply can't store it.
Now Germany is short, its whether they send back supply to a country that's done Sod All to help conserve Gas and help them store it. Hence Rees Mogg's attempt at a Government Energy saving Campaign that Truss overruled him on.
The ONLY thing Mogg has done that I support, was to try and reduce consumption here to allow more into storage as Europe were trying to do.
They've tried to conserve 15% to store for Winter, what did we do?
"
I'm going to guess that Germany haven't stored our gas for free?
If they do not return our gas there would be legal ramifications that would be costly to Germany.
Do we have enough gas stored in our outsourced gas containers, to last this winter? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Since our storage was closed, we've Imported from Germany during high demand, drawing on their storage.
If there are agreements to supply the UK, they'll declare Force majeure due "to unforseen circumstances".
We have been sending Norwegian gas via Holland to Germany but the day the media announced it, Russia further restricted NORD STREAM1 flow in retaliation.
We can only give what we're not burning as we have no storage. That may change this week, but we need windy days to free up gas demand.
Are Germany storing our supplies?
I get the cut off if Germany cant provide for themselves, and we are pulling on their supplies, but if they are storing our gas I would expect that deal to be honoured.
Germany has the EUs largest gas storage capacity. We use it as a buffer as we simply can't store it.
Now Germany is short, its whether they send back supply to a country that's done Sod All to help conserve Gas and help them store it. Hence Rees Mogg's attempt at a Government Energy saving Campaign that Truss overruled him on.
The ONLY thing Mogg has done that I support, was to try and reduce consumption here to allow more into storage as Europe were trying to do.
They've tried to conserve 15% to store for Winter, what did we do?
I'm going to guess that Germany haven't stored our gas for free?
If they do not return our gas there would be legal ramifications that would be costly to Germany.
Do we have enough gas stored in our outsourced gas containers, to last this winter? "
Could always send their spent nuclear waste back to them, currently being held in Cumbria. |
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"I'm going to guess that Germany haven't stored our gas for free?
If they do not return our gas there would be legal ramifications that would be costly to Germany.
Do we have enough gas stored in our outsourced gas containers, to last this winter? "
I'm not an expert in this area, but my understanding was that we have no storage, so we sold the gas to Germany at market prices. They then sell it back to us if we need it over the winter.
If that's correct, then Germany would have no compulsion to supply us with gas when we need it. |
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"The uk typically supplies 50% of its gas from domestic reserves.
Of tbe remaining 50% 77% of that comes from Norway.
We now also have interconnections meaning we should even need to bring in the gas but the electricity can be sent directly from Norway.
We import more gas from Qatar and USA than the e.u.
You shouldn't worry.
I gather you did not hear about "the electricity sent direct from Norway" and the Electricity sent direct from France on that matter this Winter?
Also a fair chunk of the 23% of the 50% that Norway supply the 77% is mainly from LNG (but, ONLY while a boat is docked) - you may not know we can't store a boat load of gas, hence it is usually transferred to German storage who return it back as we demand on it.
We're nothing but an LNG offloading terminal for the EU but no storage onshore here.
LNG is being bought by other EU countries who are now competing on the open market for it, pushing prices up and limiting supply, hence buying Australian LNG and shipping it half way across the globe.
I gather you've not heard about the LNG plant in Texas exploding?
We've not had US gas Dock here for months, hence a glut of gas in the US, making gas cheap over there as they can't load it onto boats.
So, I'd be very worried..."
Sorry but all quite factually incorrect.
Do you think the uk doesn't store gas atm?
How do you think on an annual basis Norway supplies about 35% of uk gas then historically. You think boats stop in winter or the gas line is shut off?
How do you account for that historically? When do you think we bought this gas previously? April-September?
The interconnectiors mean we don't even need to import the gas now which we then burned. We get electricity directly.
We still have pipelines running direct to Norway. And we don't just " serve the e.u" with that pipeline. The EU has its own to Norway.
The prices are agreed from 6 months to 18 months in advance. The price and supply total is already set. That's why forward rate agreements exist for the big 5.
The LNG plant has minimal impact. As I have stated to already we can get other supplies. Qatar, Australia. Etc etc
You realise all this data on imports is available from the ONS website right?
The uk hasn't received gas from usa for months.
You realise there are websites you can track ships docking and what they carry and where they came from.
Google " traiano lng tanker South Hook 2" and webt website "mphaco.uk" we are literally reiving an LNG tanker from USA tomorrow
I won't be replying again if you're going to be this ignorant. Set aside your bias, stop reading headlines. And look at actual sources of real time data.
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"Since our storage was closed, we've Imported from Germany during high demand, drawing on their storage.
If there are agreements to supply the UK, they'll declare Force majeure due "to unforseen circumstances".
We have been sending Norwegian gas via Holland to Germany but the day the media announced it, Russia further restricted NORD STREAM1 flow in retaliation.
We can only give what we're not burning as we have no storage. That may change this week, but we need windy days to free up gas demand.
Are Germany storing our supplies?
I get the cut off if Germany cant provide for themselves, and we are pulling on their supplies, but if they are storing our gas I would expect that deal to be honoured.
Germany has the EUs largest gas storage capacity. We use it as a buffer as we simply can't store it.
Now Germany is short, its whether they send back supply to a country that's done Sod All to help conserve Gas and help them store it. Hence Rees Mogg's attempt at a Government Energy saving Campaign that Truss overruled him on.
The ONLY thing Mogg has done that I support, was to try and reduce consumption here to allow more into storage as Europe were trying to do.
They've tried to conserve 15% to store for Winter, what did we do?
"
I seriously suggest you stop reading headlines and look at data sources. The dukes report will help you on the ons website.
So will the website I have previously mentioned.
This data is available its just laziness stopping people looking.
It's too easy to just believe an article that conforms to your conformation bias.
The uk doesn't rely on anything from Germany for gas storage.
95% of our gas comes domestically or from 3 countries. None of which are in the e.u
Netherlands and Belgium supply more gas tha Germany to us.
Gas imports 2021 by tw/h
Pipelines
Norway 355k
Netherlands 25k
Belgium 20k
Tanker
Qatar 61k
Usa 42k
Russia 33k
Algeria 8k
Norway 0k
Dukes 4.5 ons report on gas/lng imports.
Please simply stop posting lies. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"Three times during the Summer heatwaves, we came close to literally running out of power.
Belgium stepped in to support our Grid at an eye watering £5000 per kilowatt.
It was actually £9,724.54 per megawatt hour, megawatts being 1000x larger than kilowatts. That's about 50x the normal price, or 5,000% if you're being sensationalist."
I think i know the difference between a watt, kilowatt, megawatt, gigawatt and a terawatt.
I'd read £5k per kwh. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Lies- rather strong?
I'd accept mistaken, incorrect, misinformed but.. lies!
One thing is for certain, without Norway and France's import of electricity, there simply isn't enough in the system if the wind stops blowing. Forecasts of a dry, cold winter infers High Pressure dominance - 3rd Winter of low winds.
I also have 15 to 1 on the Norwegian pipe suffering an 'incident'.
Back to the £5000 per kwh, it was heard while driving and I gather it was 5000 percent. I heard it as 5000 per kwh, which sounds similar and will hold my hand up to a mistake.
Not so windy tonight at 12.6% with 62% made up from Gas.
Anyhow, we'll see how it pans out in a few months time, not that I'll be affected, I'm ready.
Camping at home, sounds great fun.
Tick-Tock.. |
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"Lies- rather strong?
I'd accept mistaken, incorrect, misinformed but.. lies!
One thing is for certain, without Norway and France's import of electricity, there simply isn't enough in the system if the wind stops blowing. Forecasts of a dry, cold winter infers High Pressure dominance - 3rd Winter of low winds.
I also have 15 to 1 on the Norwegian pipe suffering an 'incident'.
Back to the £5000 per kwh, it was heard while driving and I gather it was 5000 percent. I heard it as 5000 per kwh, which sounds similar and will hold my hand up to a mistake.
Not so windy tonight at 12.6% with 62% made up from Gas.
Anyhow, we'll see how it pans out in a few months time, not that I'll be affected, I'm ready.
Camping at home, sounds great fun.
Tick-Tock.."
Lie is appropriate
There is no article or source for you claim about Norwegian lng by boat. As pointed out. Its 0 imports via boat.
You also lied about no usa boats.
Again. I have shown you the website to look up lng imports from USA. There is no source claiming we haven't had usa boats with lng in months.
You need to look at our exports too on energy. Particularly Ireland. Weasp export to Belgium, Netherlands and France.
The e.u supply will dwindle now that the Norwegian connectors are in play
If you don't want to be called a liar. Dont make up stats easily rebuffed by official ONS stats. |
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We all need to cut 1% if everyone cut 1% it would make a difference.
Working in business I try to improve productivity by 1% and it works.
So if you don't need it switch it off even little bit adds up so just think 1% in all things in life |
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"We all need to cut 1% if everyone cut 1% it would make a difference."
No it wouldn't. We don't have anywhere to store the gas that we might save, so it would just get sold on the open market, and shipped out to other countries.
Until we have a gas storage facility up and running, there's no point trying to save energy. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"We all need to cut 1% if everyone cut 1% it would make a difference.
Working in business I try to improve productivity by 1% and it works.
So if you don't need it switch it off even little bit adds up so just think 1% in all things in life "
I'm not sure exactly how effective it would be but it's definitely a good plan, economically and for the planet if not to ensure continuity of supply.
We've started by doing an a complete audit of power usage and reduced our bills significantly. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I'm going to guess that Germany haven't stored our gas for free?
If they do not return our gas there would be legal ramifications that would be costly to Germany.
Do we have enough gas stored in our outsourced gas containers, to last this winter?
I'm not an expert in this area, but my understanding was that we have no storage, so we sold the gas to Germany at market prices. They then sell it back to us if we need it over the winter.
If that's correct, then Germany would have no compulsion to supply us with gas when we need it."
I’m shocked, genuinely shocked we agreed to that. |
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"I'm going to guess that Germany haven't stored our gas for free?
If they do not return our gas there would be legal ramifications that would be costly to Germany.
Do we have enough gas stored in our outsourced gas containers, to last this winter?
I'm not an expert in this area, but my understanding was that we have no storage, so we sold the gas to Germany at market prices. They then sell it back to us if we need it over the winter.
If that's correct, then Germany would have no compulsion to supply us with gas when we need it.
I’m shocked, genuinely shocked we agreed to that. "
Its all a fantasy. I wouldnt worry. |
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"I'm not an expert in this area, but my understanding was that we have no storage, so we sold the gas to Germany at market prices. They then sell it back to us if we need it over the winter.
If that's correct, then Germany would have no compulsion to supply us with gas when we need it."
"I’m shocked, genuinely shocked we agreed to that. "
It was a good idea at the time. The UK had a crumbling gas storage infrastructure, and we were trying to wean ourselves off fossil fuels. Why invest in local gas storage when Europe has loads of it, and is happy to ship gas to us whenever we need it? After all Europe was a stable place, so there was no chance of gas supplies drying up.
However, some mad Russian bloke decided to cut off his own supply of money, whilst also cutting off Europe's supply of gas. Two years ago, no one would have predicted that Putin would try to hold Europe to ransom.
Obviously, from where we're standing today, that decision doesn't look so good. |
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"I'm not an expert in this area, but my understanding was that we have no storage, so we sold the gas to Germany at market prices. They then sell it back to us if we need it over the winter.
If that's correct, then Germany would have no compulsion to supply us with gas when we need it.
I’m shocked, genuinely shocked we agreed to that.
It was a good idea at the time. The UK had a crumbling gas storage infrastructure, and we were trying to wean ourselves off fossil fuels. Why invest in local gas storage when Europe has loads of it, and is happy to ship gas to us whenever we need it? After all Europe was a stable place, so there was no chance of gas supplies drying up.
However, some mad Russian bloke decided to cut off his own supply of money, whilst also cutting off Europe's supply of gas. Two years ago, no one would have predicted that Putin would try to hold Europe to ransom.
Obviously, from where we're standing today, that decision doesn't look so good."
Erm didn't the Donald want he e.u of exactly that? |
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"It was a good idea at the time. The UK had a crumbling gas storage infrastructure, and we were trying to wean ourselves off fossil fuels. Why invest in local gas storage when Europe has loads of it, and is happy to ship gas to us whenever we need it? After all Europe was a stable place, so there was no chance of gas supplies drying up.
However, some mad Russian bloke decided to cut off his own supply of money, whilst also cutting off Europe's supply of gas. Two years ago, no one would have predicted that Putin would try to hold Europe to ransom.
Obviously, from where we're standing today, that decision doesn't look so good."
"Erm didn't the Donald warn the e.u of exactly that?"
When I said that no one would have predicted it, I meant no one with any credibility.
Yes, there were some conspiracy theorists saying that Putin might turn off the gas, but it wasn't seen as feasible at the time. After all, gas is a major source of income for Russia. At the time it was impossible to imagine that he might turn off such an important revenue stream. |
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"It was a good idea at the time. The UK had a crumbling gas storage infrastructure, and we were trying to wean ourselves off fossil fuels. Why invest in local gas storage when Europe has loads of it, and is happy to ship gas to us whenever we need it? After all Europe was a stable place, so there was no chance of gas supplies drying up.
However, some mad Russian bloke decided to cut off his own supply of money, whilst also cutting off Europe's supply of gas. Two years ago, no one would have predicted that Putin would try to hold Europe to ransom.
Obviously, from where we're standing today, that decision doesn't look so good.
Erm didn't the Donald warn the e.u of exactly that?
When I said that no one would have predicted it, I meant no one with any credibility.
Yes, there were some conspiracy theorists saying that Putin might turn off the gas, but it wasn't seen as feasible at the time. After all, gas is a major source of income for Russia. At the time it was impossible to imagine that he might turn off such an important revenue stream."
So the leader of the free world then who told every 1. And many agreed?
Put your own confirmation bias to one side here and admit many saw this as a problem.
It wasn't conspiracy theory. Intelligence from the uk and USA warned them before hand.
Russia was WELL aware of the e.u reliance on its gas.
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"Put your own confirmation bias to one side here and admit many saw this as a problem.
It wasn't conspiracy theory. Intelligence from the uk and USA warned them before hand.
Russia was WELL aware of the e.u reliance on its gas.
"
I agree.
The first time I remember it being mentioned was when the Have I Got News For You opening credits showed a Russian turning off the gas, and all the lights going out. That was over a decade ago.
I'm not disputing that people said it. I just mean that no one really believed it would happen. The same way that, a year ago, no one believed that there could be a war in Europe. |
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