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Power cuts - Surge protection
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
It might be the time now to consider Surge Protection Devices on your expensive and critical home appliances, while there is time to prepare.
The problem being that when power is disconnected or restored to an area, the mains Surge will be colossal and risks damaging or destroying items in your home.
Insurance would not cover and your supplier is legally obliged to supply 230volts but not guaranteed against spikes and surges.
Be prepare to unplug items until power has been restored in that it is disconnected from the socket when power is restored.
You may have Whole House Surge Protection or SPD fitted if recently rewired. Otherwise obtain strip sockets with Surge Protection built in.
Items that could be damaged (not comprehensive).
Boilers
TVs and Digi Boxes
Fridges and Freezers
Intruder alarms
Microwaves
Cookers
Laptop and PC power supplies
Other equipment has the little wall plug and a low voltage output should be protected internally although it is possible they can be damaged.
The biggest worry, EV's connected to Grid, the charger or internal electronics could be damaged.
These videos are awesome but the mains supply will be nasty.
https://youtu.be/9GeXkussHfw
https://youtu.be/A5YxdRfAe14
I'll be switching back to Grid 5 minutes after reconnection to prevent damage. |
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Interesting thought.
Though one question.
We've had postcode outages many a time in the past whilst repairs have fixed the local substation or upstream stations.
Once power resumes, everything comes back on and nothing's surged to date or blown anything.
Ok, so perhaps if the whole of East Anglia goes off and then resumes there would be a surge to all the distribution points, and local substations, but one assumes these have their own in-built protections to safeguard the stations themselves , and therefore the supply downstream to properties ? |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"Interesting thought.
Though one question.
We've had postcode outages many a time in the past whilst repairs have fixed the local substation or upstream stations.
Once power resumes, everything comes back on and nothing's surged to date or blown anything.
Ok, so perhaps if the whole of East Anglia goes off and then resumes there would be a surge to all the distribution points, and local substations, but one assumes these have their own in-built protections to safeguard the stations themselves , and therefore the supply downstream to properties ?"
The risk is always there.
Most equipment has build in TRIAC or Thyristor Surge Protection. They work but have a finite lifetime. This life is shortened each time they conduct a surge down.
Over time, they fail but unfortunately by going short circuit causing a pop and puff of smoke.
You may have have a plug in adapter for no reason doing this and never work again.
Although your kit is still working, each time, it's taken another step on its mortal coil.
Most electronics have good surge protection but each time, like a cat with 9 lives, they loose a life.
As you mentioned, the 'inrush current' of a reconnection of a large area would be massive and should not be ignored.
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Thyristor surge suppressors are semiconductor chips used to protect circuits and devices from over-voltage and over-current. A thyristor surge suppressor protects electronic equipment and sensitive audio and video devices from damaging power conditions. There are many different types of a surge suppression device. Examples include a surge line protection device, a power surge protection device, and a thyristor SCR. A surge line protection device protects incoming telephone and electrical lines. A power surge protection device protects or shields electronic devices against transient voltages from sudden surges in electrical power. A thyristor SCR is a silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) used with high current or high voltage applications to control an alternating current (AC). A thyristor control can be used to protect an electrical line that is located at an electric meter or main electrical panel. Specialized thyristor surge suppressors are also commonly available. |
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"------
Thyristor surge suppressors are semiconductor chips used to protect circuits and devices from over-voltage and over-current. A thyristor surge suppressor protects electronic equipment and sensitive audio and video devices from damaging power conditions. There are many different types of a surge suppression device. Examples include a surge line protection device, a power surge protection device, and a thyristor SCR. A surge line protection device protects incoming telephone and electrical lines. A power surge protection device protects or shields electronic devices against transient voltages from sudden surges in electrical power. A thyristor SCR is a silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) used with high current or high voltage applications to control an alternating current (AC). A thyristor control can be used to protect an electrical line that is located at an electric meter or main electrical panel. Specialized thyristor surge suppressors are also commonly available."
Thank you and very interesting and helpful to read.
Perhaps it is indeed time to look for whole house suppression/surge protection. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
No worries..
These are things government should be warning us about.
Whole House is ideal to protect boiler, fridge and those expensive LED lamps.
Still try to switch sockets, spurs and lights off until power has stabilised after a couple of minutes.
There is also possibility of surges from industry close by restarting heavy load equipment after power restoration.
A decent 2kwh - 3kwh inverter generator is only around £300-£400, then a transfer switch to isolate from Grid is £45.
Never connect a cheap shitty generator to a house as anything with electronics will fry.
One thing almost certain while power off, is that Mains Gas will be available. A gas or oil boiler just needs 100-250 watts to power it.
A small generator is ideal.
I put one in here many years ago, still not used other than testing, I think this year is the real deal depending on Solar availability.
Glad it was helpful.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We aren't worried, we've had local power cuts in areas we've lived before and didn't need additional equipment to be installed. Hubby has a surge protection bar for his PC but that's about it, the fuses in the electricity box do the trick otherwise. |
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I live in a very rural area and I have about 15-20 power cuts a year. In the last 5 years I’ve lived here I have only had one appliance fail when the power was turned back on, I contacted the company I bought it off as it had warranty, they asked me if I had a power cut and I said yes. They blamed a surge on the power company.
Western power paid for me to have a brand new appliance (Samsung American fridge freezer) after a written report from the repair agent.
I genuinely think this post is scare mongering, if power cuts are large scale in the UK in coming months and peoples appliances are damaged then electricity companies will have to pay out and in my personal experience they did and with very little trouble |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"
I live in a very rural area and I have about 15-20 power cuts a year. In the last 5 years I’ve lived here I have only had one appliance fail when the power was turned back on, I contacted the company I bought it off as it had warranty, they asked me if I had a power cut and I said yes. They blamed a surge on the power company.
Western power paid for me to have a brand new appliance (Samsung American fridge freezer) after a written report from the repair agent.
I genuinely think this post is scare mongering, if power cuts are large scale in the UK in coming months and peoples appliances are damaged then electricity companies will have to pay out and in my personal experience they did and with very little trouble"
Theres quite a bit of scaremongering and total nonsense being posted.
Keep swinging and ignore them. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Your welcome..
I was working with Utility company on an office block a number of years ago.
Network Engineer threw breaker back in at substation without first telling building managers it was going back on. If they had known, they could have switched local circuits off - compensation was paid.
95 desktops, 105 LCD monitors, 6 servers, a number of air conditioning systems, many phone chargers, photo copiers and printers, all fried.!!
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"
I live in a very rural area and I have about 15-20 power cuts a year. In the last 5 years I’ve lived here I have only had one appliance fail when the power was turned back on, I contacted the company I bought it off as it had warranty, they asked me if I had a power cut and I said yes. They blamed a surge on the power company.
Western power paid for me to have a brand new appliance (Samsung American fridge freezer) after a written report from the repair agent.
I genuinely think this post is scare mongering, if power cuts are large scale in the UK in coming months and peoples appliances are damaged then electricity companies will have to pay out and in my personal experience they did and with very little trouble"
UK Power Networks- Terms of Connection:
If you have changed the company that supplies your electricity, your new supplier should have given you a copy of the Terms and Conditions that apply. They will have included the following terms of connection to the electricity distribution network. If you have changed supplier, the terms of connection that apply to you are very similar.
Section 6
Conveying electricity We do not guarantee that we will convey electricity through our network at all times, or that electricity delivered through our network will be free of brief variations in voltage or frequency.
Section 9
If something goes wrong If we fail to comply with any term of this agreement or are negligent, you may be entitled under general law to recover compensation from us for any loss you have suffered. However, we will not be required to compensate you for (and you should consider obtaining insurance against) loss caused by anything beyond our reasonable control, any indirect loss, or any direct loss or indirect economic or financial loss (including wasted expenses or any loss of revenue, profit, or interest, any loss of business, commercial, market, or economic opportunity, or any loss of contact or goodwill) other than where you are entitled to recover compensation for loss under he general law in relation to death or personal injury. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Compensation: a power cut damaged something in my home.
Power cuts occur for many different reasons and usually without warning.
We're not liable for any damage to electrical appliances such as TVs, computers etc as a result of a power cut. Your home insurance may cover you, so please check with your insurers.
Most insurance companies will contact us directly if they require further information about the power cut. For more information please read the Terms of Connections, these are set by our industry regulator Ofgem.
Some of the equipment in your home are more sensitive than others, here are some tips on how to protect them:
You can protect equipment such as landline phones and internet routers from voltage variations by using surge protectors. They can be purchased from electrical shops and DIY stores.
If you're at home during a power cut, you can protect your equipment by unplugging it or switching it off at the socket.
Alarm systems need regular maintenance, batteries should be replaced every five years.
If you work from home or a small business and use your computer, you may like to consider using a Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) system. UPS systems will provide backup power to your computer until your electricity supply is restored. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
What causes a power surge?
Power surges also referred to as high voltage surges, are simply an increase in voltage in the electrical system. Depending on the source, this can last anywhere from a few milliseconds to a few minutes. There are a few typical causes of power surges:
Nearby Lightning Strikes – when lightning strikes near a power line, it can discharge excess energy into the electrical line increasing the electrical pressure, which then can travel into nearby connected properties. This type of power surge can be the most damaging as it creates the highest increase in voltage.
The Electrical Grid – if there is damage to a power line or a transformer, this can be caused by a tree falling on a power line or an animal getting into a transformer. An excess of electricity will flood the system once the power restores after being down. This recent example in Tulare, CA, knocked out power for around 1,400 homes and caused widespread damage to appliances and electronics.
High-Consumption Electrical Devices – The majority of power surges occur from within the home. When devices that consume a high amount of electricity switch on or off, it disrupts the flow of electricity, causing small power surges within the property. While these are the most common, they are rarely damaging. However, over time, these surges can impact other devices connected to the system.
How does a power surge impact electronics?
Homes rely on 230 volts of power, and therefore, the electronic devices attached to the system also require this amount. The electricity delivered by the utility company can fluctuate up to 243 volts, and appliances and electronics are built to withstand that fluctuation.
When a significant power surge occurs, and the electrical pressure exceeds 243 volts, it can cause the connected device and/or wiring to overheat. While smaller surges won’t cause the connected components to overheat, the excessive strain caused on the device can, over time, cause it to wear out prematurely. |
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"Homes rely on 230 volts of power, and therefore, the electronic devices attached to the system also require this amount. The electricity delivered by the utility company can fluctuate up to 243 volts, and appliances and electronics are built to withstand that fluctuation."
All the text in that last post comes from strikecheck.com, A US site for insurance claims adjusters. I notice that you've removed their US voltages and applied EU ones instead. The UK grid supplies power at a nominal 240V, with regular fluctuations of around 5V or so.
Where did you get the 243V figure from? |
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"It's 253v max"
That sounds about right. I just stuck my probes in the wall socket, and I'm seeing 245v at the moment. I'd expect most consumer equipment to be quite happy with 300v for short periods. Switched mode supplies are very forgiving of wobbly voltage levels, unlike old-fashioned transformers.
Since we have very little in the way of lightning in the UK, power surges really aren't anything to worry about. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"It's 253v max
That sounds about right. I just stuck my probes in the wall socket, and I'm seeing 245v at the moment. I'd expect most consumer equipment to be quite happy with 300v for short periods. Switched mode supplies are very forgiving of wobbly voltage levels, unlike old-fashioned transformers.
Since we have very little in the way of lightning in the UK, power surges really aren't anything to worry about."
Most of the SMPSUs I work with are rated 85-265v
Most of the "anti surge" 4 way blocks are garbage anyway, in fact there's more risk of a fire from cheap surge protectors than they're worth with any sort of load on them. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"Homes rely on 230 volts of power, and therefore, the electronic devices attached to the system also require this amount. The electricity delivered by the utility company can fluctuate up to 243 volts, and appliances and electronics are built to withstand that fluctuation.
All the text in that last post comes from strikecheck.com, A US site for insurance claims adjusters. I notice that you've removed their US voltages and applied EU ones instead. The UK grid supplies power at a nominal 240V, with regular fluctuations of around 5V or so.
Where did you get the 243V figure from?"
+/- 6% - are you not aware of UK spec. Mine was around 253v a few years ago, peaking over 260v, called DNO who reduced as was high and out of spec. Higher voltage also means excessive power consumption by some equipment and wasteful.
We'll see, obviously you experts know better, and trying to warn others of the consequences of a large area being re-energised - carrying risk to equipment damage on any global Grid sysyem. I personally find the risk unacceptable and taken mitigation against it.
Surges in the UK or US is no different other than the voltages. The UK terms are accurate as is the US information with UK voltages applied.
It's however strange that wiring regs now demand whole house surge protection but I suppose that was fear mongering of manufacturers to force additional kit into rewires.
It's also strange you seek to belittle and information I share with others and must be a form of entertainment.
You'll not find any electronics engineer that will tell you mains borne spikes and surges are not a concern.
Anyhow, crack on as you've probably damned my warning and guided others not to consider the consequences.
They'll not thank you if it does prove to be correct. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/21108538.energy-crisis-blackout-fears-power-cut/
In a power cut, switch of any appliances, switches and sockets to help prevent a surge when electricity is restored. |
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"https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/21108538.energy-crisis-blackout-fears-power-cut/
In a power cut, switch of any appliances, switches and sockets to help prevent a surge when electricity is restored."
The actual quote from the link you provided is "Switch of all electrical appliances – this helps to prevent a surge (and therefore another power cut) when everything comes back on at the same time". That quote comes from a power company representative, who is talking about current surge.
If everyone leaves everything on during a power cut, all that stuff will start to draw lots of current when the power comes back on. It might be too much current, meaning that the protection mechanisms at the sub-station will turn the power back off again to protect the supply equipment.
A current surge is not the same thing as a power surge. |
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"Whatever.."
MrFunBoy.
I usually find your posts quite interesting and I know you get a lot of abuse on here for scare mongering. I have always ignored it until now.
I think you need to stop copying and pasting irrelevant information from USA websites.
Just remember this is the politics section on a swinging forum, not a debate club forum. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Homes rely on 230 volts of power, and therefore, the electronic devices attached to the system also require this amount. The electricity delivered by the utility company can fluctuate up to 243 volts, and appliances and electronics are built to withstand that fluctuation.
All the text in that last post comes from strikecheck.com, A US site for insurance claims adjusters. I notice that you've removed their US voltages and applied EU ones instead. The UK grid supplies power at a nominal 240V, with regular fluctuations of around 5V or so.
Where did you get the 243V figure from?
+/- 6% - are you not aware of UK spec. Mine was around 253v a few years ago, peaking over 260v, called DNO who reduced as was high and out of spec. Higher voltage also means excessive power consumption by some equipment and wasteful.
We'll see, obviously you experts know better, and trying to warn others of the consequences of a large area being re-energised - carrying risk to equipment damage on any global Grid sysyem. I personally find the risk unacceptable and taken mitigation against it.
Surges in the UK or US is no different other than the voltages. The UK terms are accurate as is the US information with UK voltages applied.
It's however strange that wiring regs now demand whole house surge protection but I suppose that was fear mongering of manufacturers to force additional kit into rewires.
It's also strange you seek to belittle and information I share with others and must be a form of entertainment.
You'll not find any electronics engineer that will tell you mains borne spikes and surges are not a concern.
Anyhow, crack on as you've probably damned my warning and guided others not to consider the consequences.
They'll not thank you if it does prove to be correct."
It's been a VERY long time since the UK limits were +-6%
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Manufacturers usually allow a further margin of safety and, if the voltage does occasionally fall outside these limits, there should be no adverse effect on your appliances.
In the UK, the declared voltage and tolerance for an electricity supply is 230 volts -6%, +10%. This gives an allowed voltage range of 216.2 volts to 253.0 volts. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Manufacturers usually allow a further margin of safety and, if the voltage does occasionally fall outside these limits, there should be no adverse effect on your appliances.
In the UK, the declared voltage and tolerance for an electricity supply is 230 volts -6%, +10%. This gives an allowed voltage range of 216.2 volts to 253.0 volts."
Ah..the correct cut and paste. Or was it changed to +-10% after I stopped working with power stations ? There was talk about it in the late 90's |
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