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Tory Chaos
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"It is being widely reported that Liz Truss is on borrowed time. But what happens next? Are we reasonably expected to put up with another Tory Leadership campaign or will an adult in the room decide that it is time to put it to the people?" Mark my words, the next three word slogan will be Bring Back Boris. | |||
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"It is being widely reported that Liz Truss is on borrowed time. But what happens next? Are we reasonably expected to put up with another Tory Leadership campaign or will an adult in the room decide that it is time to put it to the people? Mark my words, the next three word slogan will be Bring Back Boris." Unless that was the plan all along…. | |||
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"BBB "Boris won’t be coming back, he lost, you need to move on  | |||
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"BBB "NFC.. | |||
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"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010" and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ?? | |||
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"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010 and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ??" No PM would have been better than Cameron/Boris/Truss/May | |||
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"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010 and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ??" Actually Ed Mliband would have been but then he ate a bacon sandwich and it was all over! | |||
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"BBB
NFC.. "NSN
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"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010 and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ?? Actually Ed Mliband would have been but then he ate a bacon sandwich and it was all over!" I said at the time..."wrong brother". | |||
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"It is being widely reported that Liz Truss is on borrowed time. But what happens next? Are we reasonably expected to put up with another Tory Leadership campaign or will an adult in the room decide that it is time to put it to the people?" If nothing else gets in the way (and let's hope it does) the cuntservatives cannot be responsible for Scotland leaving and breaking up the Union. Indyref2 should, fingers crossed, save us. | |||
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"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010 and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ?? Actually Ed Mliband would have been but then he ate a bacon sandwich and it was all over! I said at the time..."wrong brother"." I think the Trades Unions were responsible for getting the "wrong brother" elected. Not sure what they gained out of it. Possibly didn't see the long game. | |||
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"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. " that last line needs an edit. One, you've used a labour song. One they used the last time the Tories were struggling so. Freudian song? And two, it suggests we are at rock bottom. Doesn't quite align with your message of great leaders with strengths. | |||
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"BBB "Big Black Boris?  | |||
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"BBB Big Black Boris? "sounds like a name for wife's favourite dildo. | |||
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"BBB Big Black Boris? sounds like a name for wife's favourite dildo."Ooh I would be worried you’ve spoilt it for her now | |||
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"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. " And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw? | |||
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"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. " Except that it does seem to bother people. "Truss’s personal approval rating of -47 is now the worst ever recorded for a prime minister in an Opinium poll for the Observer. It is a worse rating than that recorded for Johnson during Partygate and Theresa May in the weeks before her resignation." "However, chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng’s ratings are even worse at -51 overall. It follows a mini-budget blamed for crashing the pound, inducing market chaos and leading to a major party conference U-turn over abolishing the top rate of tax." "Overall, Labour’s lead of 21 points is now the biggest Opinium has ever recorded, though the company started polling after the peak of New Labour’s popularity. Labour has tended to have smaller leads than recorded with other polling companies because of the way Opinium treats how likely voters are to cast a ballot." "The Conservatives are holding on to just 60% of their 2019 voting coalition. Labour is holding on to 87% of its 2019 voters. 61% of all voters say there should be a general election this year, with a quarter against the idea." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/08/liz-truss-approval-ratings-reach-new-lows-after-tory-conference#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16652539068732&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2022%2Foct%2F08%2Fliz-truss-approval-ratings-reach-new-lows-after-tory-conference | |||
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"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw? "He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions. Wonder what his opinion is now... | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now...". As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy. "
Amazing. Proper belly laughs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy. "You do, of course, understand what Gilts are and the long-term consequences of yields rising to both the Government and to pension funds. You also know why the Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year Girls (is that long-term) to protect pension fund liquidity, don't you. Would you care to explain. What happened? You're saying that the current party who has been in place for 12 years has failed and it will be fixed in 2 years because that's how economics works? Companies are paying dividends because they are slashing growth investment and will not hold cash due to rampant inflation. Being "determined" to grow the economy and having the competence to do so are very different things. We have no choice but to wait and see. The electorate, with whom Truss is historically unpopular, have no influence. It is her own party's "coup" plotters and the contradictory policies within her own Cabinet that she should be concerned about. It would be funny if it didn't have such a big negative impact on our lives now and the future of this country. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy.
You do, of course, understand what Gilts are and the long-term consequences of yields rising to both the Government and to pension funds.
You also know why the Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year Girls (is that long-term) to protect pension fund liquidity, don't you.
Would you care to explain. What happened?
You're saying that the current party who has been in place for 12 years has failed and it will be fixed in 2 years because that's how economics works?
Companies are paying dividends because they are slashing growth investment and will not hold cash due to rampant inflation.
Being "determined" to grow the economy and having the competence to do so are very different things.
We have no choice but to wait and see. The electorate, with whom Truss is historically unpopular, have no influence. It is her own party's "coup" plotters and the contradictory policies within her own Cabinet that she should be concerned about.
It would be funny if it didn't have such a big negative impact on our lives now and the future of this country."I never said that the current party in power had failed. If you want proof on their success just analyse the 2019 election results . Imagine how much worse recent events would be if any other party was in power. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy.
You do, of course, understand what Gilts are and the long-term consequences of yields rising to both the Government and to pension funds.
You also know why the Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year Girls (is that long-term) to protect pension fund liquidity, don't you.
Would you care to explain. What happened?
You're saying that the current party who has been in place for 12 years has failed and it will be fixed in 2 years because that's how economics works?
Companies are paying dividends because they are slashing growth investment and will not hold cash due to rampant inflation.
Being "determined" to grow the economy and having the competence to do so are very different things.
We have no choice but to wait and see. The electorate, with whom Truss is historically unpopular, have no influence. It is her own party's "coup" plotters and the contradictory policies within her own Cabinet that she should be concerned about.
It would be funny if it didn't have such a big negative impact on our lives now and the future of this country. I never said that the current party in power had failed. If you want proof on their success just analyse the 2019 election results .
Imagine how much worse recent events would be if any other party was in power. "Which other party's chancellor would have produced a budget purely for the 1% and crash the economy, barely a week after appearing to be off his tits on at the monarch's funeral? | |||
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"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy.
You do, of course, understand what Gilts are and the long-term consequences of yields rising to both the Government and to pension funds.
You also know why the Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year Girls (is that long-term) to protect pension fund liquidity, don't you.
Would you care to explain. What happened?
You're saying that the current party who has been in place for 12 years has failed and it will be fixed in 2 years because that's how economics works?
Companies are paying dividends because they are slashing growth investment and will not hold cash due to rampant inflation.
Being "determined" to grow the economy and having the competence to do so are very different things.
We have no choice but to wait and see. The electorate, with whom Truss is historically unpopular, have no influence. It is her own party's "coup" plotters and the contradictory policies within her own Cabinet that she should be concerned about.
It would be funny if it didn't have such a big negative impact on our lives now and the future of this country. I never said that the current party in power had failed. If you want proof on their success just analyse the 2019 election results .
Imagine how much worse recent events would be if any other party was in power. "Election results prove political success not objective economic or social success. Is your metric retaining power or benefitting society. There is zero information to "imagine" anything would be worse under any other administration. Quite the opposite. The electorate would appear to believe the same. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy.
You do, of course, understand what Gilts are and the long-term consequences of yields rising to both the Government and to pension funds.
You also know why the Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year Girls (is that long-term) to protect pension fund liquidity, don't you.
Would you care to explain. What happened?
You're saying that the current party who has been in place for 12 years has failed and it will be fixed in 2 years because that's how economics works?
Companies are paying dividends because they are slashing growth investment and will not hold cash due to rampant inflation.
Being "determined" to grow the economy and having the competence to do so are very different things.
We have no choice but to wait and see. The electorate, with whom Truss is historically unpopular, have no influence. It is her own party's "coup" plotters and the contradictory policies within her own Cabinet that she should be concerned about.
It would be funny if it didn't have such a big negative impact on our lives now and the future of this country. I never said that the current party in power had failed. If you want proof on their success just analyse the 2019 election results .
Imagine how much worse recent events would be if any other party was in power. "Let’s have a general election it’s time for the country to decide  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy. "Thick Lizzie won’t last 1 year never mind 5 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see too many people losing too much sleep over so called Tory chaos . Liz Truss has achieved what only a few people will ever do and that is to become PM. She has at least two years in which to complete the job. You do not judge people over what they achieve in 5 days, what matters is your long term performance over at least two years . We are exceptionally lucky to have have had four different types of leader in the last ten years all with difference strengths. Imagine the chaos if either Labour or the Liberals were in power . If things go to plan Liz Truss will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time . Things can only get better . It looks like we have a real winner. And he’s back in the game….well done Mr Hay…. I thought we had lost you there after the opinion polls had shown such a huge shift to Labour from the Tory (UKIP) party….how’s your mortgage btw?
He's usually happy with the Tories because they are good for pensions.
Wonder what his opinion is now.... As investment decisions are made over anticipated long term performance short term problems are irrelevant unless you have to sell your shares in a hurry. I do not see many companies cutting dividemds so everything looks good . Let's check how things look in five years time. Liz Truss is determined to grow the economy.
You do, of course, understand what Gilts are and the long-term consequences of yields rising to both the Government and to pension funds.
You also know why the Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year Girls (is that long-term) to protect pension fund liquidity, don't you.
Would you care to explain. What happened?
You're saying that the current party who has been in place for 12 years has failed and it will be fixed in 2 years because that's how economics works?
Companies are paying dividends because they are slashing growth investment and will not hold cash due to rampant inflation.
Being "determined" to grow the economy and having the competence to do so are very different things.
We have no choice but to wait and see. The electorate, with whom Truss is historically unpopular, have no influence. It is her own party's "coup" plotters and the contradictory policies within her own Cabinet that she should be concerned about.
It would be funny if it didn't have such a big negative impact on our lives now and the future of this country. I never said that the current party in power had failed. If you want proof on their success just analyse the 2019 election results .
Imagine how much worse recent events would be if any other party was in power. "I know, but the public will vote as instructed and as you keep pointing out, vote against their own interests. | |||
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"Its really funny, when experienced contributors on here are trying to engage Mr Hay in a serious debate." It's interesting to see his "reasoning" and how he "copes" with the continual contradictions of his previous positions by just blithely denying them. He is not atypical. How else could you continue to support the Conservative party, wherever you may have started from 10-15 years ago? | |||
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"Its really funny, when experienced contributors on here are trying to engage Mr Hay in a serious debate. It's interesting to see his "reasoning" and how he "copes" with the continual contradictions of his previous positions by just blithely denying them. He is not atypical. How else could you continue to support the Conservative party, wherever you may have started from 10-15 years ago?" He's either a troll here to wind up people who don't like the tories. Or he genuinely believes the sun shines out of every tory leaders backside. Either way whether its sunshine or manure, its good for the grass to make Hay. | |||
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No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?  | |||
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to? "Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type? | |||
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type? "
"To well"?
Too? | |||
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type?
"To well"?
Too? "We can criticise my left thumb all day... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type?
"To well"?
Too?
We can criticise my left thumb all day..."Left thumb ?? | |||
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"Single digit swipe texting. Sometimes index finger. Could be either hand. Possibly not contributing greatly to the thread..." Just curious why you would be using your left thumb when the letter o is so close to your right thumb …  | |||
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"Single digit swipe texting. Sometimes index finger. Could be either hand. Possibly not contributing greatly to the thread... Just curious why you would be using your left thumb when the letter o is so close to your right thumb … "Depends what hand in holding the phone in and which digit I happen to be using. Not so mysterious to me. | |||
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"Single digit swipe texting. Sometimes index finger. Could be either hand. Possibly not contributing greatly to the thread... Just curious why you would be using your left thumb when the letter o is so close to your right thumb …
Depends what hand in holding the phone in and which digit I happen to be using.
Not so mysterious to me."I guess you never had a blackberry? After years of two thumb typing on various models of blackberry it becomes quite difficult to use any other technique for speedy typing - also two thumbs is very good for accuracy
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type?
"To well"?
Too?
We can criticise my left thumb all day..."There's no evidence I criticised your left thumb. I was prepared for you to let Autocorrect take the blame
That said, that's a great memory you've got there Easyuk - remembering specifically that it was the left thumb which failed to tap the letter 'o' twice rather than just once. However, since the left thumb simply responds to instructions from your brain, it's maybe unfair to left thumb-shame. Far more accurate perhaps to blame that usually great memory, uncommonly forgetting to add the additional 'o'. Unless of course you don't understand the different spellings and when to use them?
Spelling and grammar: the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit
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"Single digit swipe texting. Sometimes index finger. Could be either hand. Possibly not contributing greatly to the thread... Just curious why you would be using your left thumb when the letter o is so close to your right thumb …
Depends what hand in holding the phone in and which digit I happen to be using.
Not so mysterious to me.
I guess you never had a blackberry?
After years of two thumb typing on various models of blackberry it becomes quite difficult to use any other technique for speedy typing - also two thumbs is very good for accuracy
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type?
"To well"?
Too?
We can criticise my left thumb all day...
There's no evidence I criticised your left thumb. I was prepared for you to let Autocorrect take the blame
That said, that's a great memory you've got there Easyuk - remembering specifically that it was the left thumb which failed to tap the letter 'o' twice rather than just once. However, since the left thumb simply responds to instructions from your brain, it's maybe unfair to left thumb-shame. Far more accurate perhaps to blame that usually great memory, uncommonly forgetting to add the additional 'o'. Unless of course you don't understand the different spellings and when to use them?
Spelling and grammar: the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit
"Swiping the keyboard doesn't require double tapping a key. It does require you to check that the correct spelling option was used which I occasionally fail to do. Technology giveth with one thumb and taketh away with the other. | |||
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type?
"To well"?
Too?
We can criticise my left thumb all day...
There's no evidence I criticised your left thumb. I was prepared for you to let Autocorrect take the blame
That said, that's a great memory you've got there Easyuk - remembering specifically that it was the left thumb which failed to tap the letter 'o' twice rather than just once. However, since the left thumb simply responds to instructions from your brain, it's maybe unfair to left thumb-shame. Far more accurate perhaps to blame that usually great memory, uncommonly forgetting to add the additional 'o'. Unless of course you don't understand the different spellings and when to use them?
Spelling and grammar: the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit
Swiping the keyboard doesn't require double tapping a key. It does require you to check that the correct spelling option was used which I occasionally fail to do.
Technology giveth with one thumb and taketh away with the other."Sounds like a rule of thumb | |||
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"I'm just reeling from the statement that the 'Bank of England had to buy 20-30 year girls'
No wonder the situation became unsettled!
Easyuk - what is your Autocorrect up to?
Learning to well from the sort of things I usually type?
"To well"?
Too?
We can criticise my left thumb all day...
There's no evidence I criticised your left thumb. I was prepared for you to let Autocorrect take the blame
That said, that's a great memory you've got there Easyuk - remembering specifically that it was the left thumb which failed to tap the letter 'o' twice rather than just once. However, since the left thumb simply responds to instructions from your brain, it's maybe unfair to left thumb-shame. Far more accurate perhaps to blame that usually great memory, uncommonly forgetting to add the additional 'o'. Unless of course you don't understand the different spellings and when to use them?
Spelling and grammar: the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit
Swiping the keyboard doesn't require double tapping a key. It does require you to check that the correct spelling option was used which I occasionally fail to do.
Technology giveth with one thumb and taketh away with the other.
Sounds like a rule of thumb " | |||
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"The Govt bears the greatest responsibility for the current market crisis, but the gaffe-prone Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey sent markets into further crisis earlier this week by announcing a date (tomorrow) for the end of gilts support. I suspect the mini-budget is now more likely than not to be totally withdrawn. It is unacceptable to the markets and the Tory party is in thrall to a market economy. However, it's like Black Wednesday in 1992, when interest rates shot up, the Tories lost economic credibility, and it took them 15 to 20 years to get it back. The same will happen again. These things are cyclical and Labour are due a go. It too will end in crisis (Labour have even more economic failure precedent than the Tories) and the Tories will be ushered back in in the late 2030s. Cynical but cyclical. " I think the BoE only saw teselves as creating cash for pensions to break the cycle. They are given schemes until the end of the week to get a sensible amount of liquidity to ride out this shit storm. Teh markets were banking on ongoing support ... But that's not the BoE job. They're a last resort. JRM blaming BoE won't help any decision making. | |||
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"The Govt bears the greatest responsibility for the current market crisis, but the gaffe-prone Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey sent markets into further crisis earlier this week by announcing a date (tomorrow) for the end of gilts support. I suspect the mini-budget is now more likely than not to be totally withdrawn. It is unacceptable to the markets and the Tory party is in thrall to a market economy. However, it's like Black Wednesday in 1992, when interest rates shot up, the Tories lost economic credibility, and it took them 15 to 20 years to get it back. The same will happen again. These things are cyclical and Labour are due a go. It too will end in crisis (Labour have even more economic failure precedent than the Tories) and the Tories will be ushered back in in the late 2030s. Cynical but cyclical. " Really? What has a Labour government done that's worse than a Conservative government. The indicator of failure is more usually that any government stays in power too long and spends more time looking inward and staying in office that doing something useful. | |||
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"The Govt bears the greatest responsibility for the current market crisis, but the gaffe-prone Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey sent markets into further crisis earlier this week by announcing a date (tomorrow) for the end of gilts support. I suspect the mini-budget is now more likely than not to be totally withdrawn. It is unacceptable to the markets and the Tory party is in thrall to a market economy. However, it's like Black Wednesday in 1992, when interest rates shot up, the Tories lost economic credibility, and it took them 15 to 20 years to get it back. The same will happen again. These things are cyclical and Labour are due a go. It too will end in crisis (Labour have even more economic failure precedent than the Tories) and the Tories will be ushered back in in the late 2030s. Cynical but cyclical. " This is why another election is pointless and democracy is broken in this country. | |||
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"Really? What has a Labour government done that's worse than a Conservative government." Taken us into an unjustified war, by falsifying evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction, and then murdering the expert that spoke out about it. Does that count? | |||
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"The Govt bears the greatest responsibility for the current market crisis, but the gaffe-prone Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey sent markets into further crisis earlier this week by announcing a date (tomorrow) for the end of gilts support. I suspect the mini-budget is now more likely than not to be totally withdrawn. It is unacceptable to the markets and the Tory party is in thrall to a market economy. However, it's like Black Wednesday in 1992, when interest rates shot up, the Tories lost economic credibility, and it took them 15 to 20 years to get it back. The same will happen again. These things are cyclical and Labour are due a go. It too will end in crisis (Labour have even more economic failure precedent than the Tories) and the Tories will be ushered back in in the late 2030s. Cynical but cyclical. Really? What has a Labour government done that's worse than a Conservative government. The indicator of failure is more usually that any government stays in power too long and spends more time looking inward and staying in office that doing something useful." Labour went cap in hand to the IMF in 1976. Then they did it all over again in 2010, with Liam Byrne, chief secretary to the Treasury under Gordon Brown, leaving a note for his Tory successor that proved to be a gift for the Conservatives. ‘I’m afraid there is no money.’ He now bleats that he 'burns with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when I'm standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating' Inflation was 24.6 per cent in 1975 under Labour! From the mid-1940s to the mid-1970s, mainly when Labour was in power, Britain was the heaviest user of IMF resources. By the mid 70s under Labour, the UK was the sick man of Europe. Unemployment started to rise. Power cuts became a daily occurrence as a result of industrial action.There were riots in the streets. The government introduced a three-day week and tried to limit union pay demands to a 5 percent increase. They refused. A “Winter of Discontent” followed that finally ushered in Thatcher. Britain’s economy in the 1970s was so weak that Jim Callaghan, the Labour Party leader, foresaw a “breakdown of democracy” and said, “If I were a young man, I would emigrate.” Does that answer your question? | |||
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"The Govt bears the greatest responsibility for the current market crisis, but the gaffe-prone Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey sent markets into further crisis earlier this week by announcing a date (tomorrow) for the end of gilts support. I suspect the mini-budget is now more likely than not to be totally withdrawn. It is unacceptable to the markets and the Tory party is in thrall to a market economy. However, it's like Black Wednesday in 1992, when interest rates shot up, the Tories lost economic credibility, and it took them 15 to 20 years to get it back. The same will happen again. These things are cyclical and Labour are due a go. It too will end in crisis (Labour have even more economic failure precedent than the Tories) and the Tories will be ushered back in in the late 2030s. Cynical but cyclical. Really? What has a Labour government done that's worse than a Conservative government. The indicator of failure is more usually that any government stays in power too long and spends more time looking inward and staying in office that doing something useful. Labour went cap in hand to the IMF in 1976. Then they did it all over again in 2010, with Liam Byrne, chief secretary to the Treasury under Gordon Brown, leaving a note for his Tory successor that proved to be a gift for the Conservatives. ‘I’m afraid there is no money.’ He now bleats that he 'burns with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when I'm standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating' Inflation was 24.6 per cent in 1975 under Labour! From the mid-1940s to the mid-1970s, mainly when Labour was in power, Britain was the heaviest user of IMF resources. By the mid 70s under Labour, the UK was the sick man of Europe. Unemployment started to rise. Power cuts became a daily occurrence as a result of industrial action.There were riots in the streets. The government introduced a three-day week and tried to limit union pay demands to a 5 percent increase. They refused. A “Winter of Discontent” followed that finally ushered in Thatcher. Britain’s economy in the 1970s was so weak that Jim Callaghan, the Labour Party leader, foresaw a “breakdown of democracy” and said, “If I were a young man, I would emigrate.” Does that answer your question? " All of the above was precipitated by the Anthony Barber “spend to grow” budget in 1972. There are parallels between what Heath and Barber tried to do in 1972 and what Truss and Kwarteng are trying to do now. We can only hope that the hole that this government digs does not result in the next Labour government being unable to fill it. Almost all of Wilson’s problems stemmed from the chaos and uncertainty that followed Barber’s budget. | |||
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"Well she u turned and now she hasn’t got a leg to stand on, Sunak must be laughing with his McDonalds breakfast wrap. " Two u turns and another tomorrow and possibly more to come, she must be dizzy.. | |||
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Only 50 MPs voted for Truss in Round 1. Out of 357.  | |||
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"There cannot be another leadership change in the Tory party but Jeremy Hunt is now running the country. It's a benign coup but leaves rather a big democracy deficit. Meanwhile Braverman Perdue's her own trade and foreign policy scuppering any potential UK India trade deal for some time. Therese Coffey, meanwhile says that she passes on her unused antibiotics to friends: 1. Illegal 2. Antibiotic courses should be completed and unnecessary use of antibiotics should be minimised to reduce the serious problem of antibiotic immunity" There could be a change. A leadership contest will occur if a sitting leader resigns. Boris survived a vote of no confidence, which under the rules meant that he could not be challenged for 12 months. But we all know how that ended. You are correct however about antibiotics and Therese Coffey should know better. | |||
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"There cannot be another leadership change in the Tory party but Jeremy Hunt is now running the country. It's a benign coup but leaves rather a big democracy deficit. Meanwhile Braverman Perdue's her own trade and foreign policy scuppering any potential UK India trade deal for some time. Therese Coffey, meanwhile says that she passes on her unused antibiotics to friends: 1. Illegal 2. Antibiotic courses should be completed and unnecessary use of antibiotics should be minimised to reduce the serious problem of antibiotic immunity" pursues her own trade and foreign policy* | |||
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"I have a five pound bet she suddenly “tests positive” for covid tomorrow or Wednesday morning to get out of PMQS… " Good call, or the Tory party have locked her away somewhere | |||
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"I have a five pound bet she suddenly “tests positive” for covid tomorrow or Wednesday morning to get out of PMQS… Good call, or the Tory party have locked her away somewhere " Someone just has to withdraw their hand from the glove puppet and it will collapse in a heap on the floor until needed again! £5 bet looks good I’d say | |||
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"They're still letting her send tweets so maybe it's the new way to govern.. "Can we be sure it’s her tweeting? | |||
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"They're still letting her send tweets so maybe it's the new way to govern..
Can we be sure it’s her tweeting? "Good point.. | |||
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"They're still letting her send tweets so maybe it's the new way to govern..
Can we be sure it’s her tweeting?
Good point.. "They don’t even let her have crayons as she might put them in her mouth! | |||
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"I have a five pound bet she suddenly “tests positive” for covid tomorrow or Wednesday morning to get out of PMQS… " Not so sure about that, I think she will be in a mock up of PM's questions practicing her answers right now. She will be told she has nailed it, whilst being hung out to dry as she repeats the mantra of acting decisively, to calm the markets with a new chancellor. | |||
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"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010 and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ?? Actually Ed Mliband would have been but then he ate a bacon sandwich and it was all over!" His brother may have been a wiser choice. Wonder how they get on ? | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression." I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. " A sock puppet has more personality than Truss! Give over! | |||
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"Dizzy Lizzy Some Rishi Sunak supporters are already dreaming that their leadership candidate will soon be giving it another go. MPs liked him, but the Tory members saw a Judas
Only 50 MPs voted for Truss in Round 1. Out of 357. "That will go down well with Party Members who will quite rightly question the point of them voting in a Leadership election just two months ago. As for the rest of us… | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. " funny how different people see different things. She always reminds me of someone in a job interview who has rehearsed three answers and uses them for every question. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. " Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. " It's a very simple smile I think that's telling.. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. funny how different people see different things. She always reminds me of someone in a job interview who has rehearsed three answers and uses them for every question. " perfect description. Am stealing that | |||
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"It is being widely reported that Liz Truss is on borrowed time. But what happens next? Are we reasonably expected to put up with another Tory Leadership campaign or will an adult in the room decide that it is time to put it to the people?" No, it will drag on and on and on. Never underestimate the brass neck of any politician. I can think of no worse job. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes "I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget? Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. "You do realise she is finished? If she stays then labour will thrash the hopeless tories at the next GE | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin.
You do realise she is finished? If she stays then labour will thrash the hopeless tories at the next GE "You're watching too many rolling news channels! They're in a deranged feeding frenzy! Won't be long before Beth Rigby shouts 'when are you resignin' Mr Hunt' No G | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin.
You do realise she is finished? If she stays then labour will thrash the hopeless tories at the next GE
You're watching too many rolling news channels! They're in a deranged feeding frenzy! Won't be long before Beth Rigby shouts 'when are you resignin' Mr Hunt'
No G "So you think Truss will lead the tories to the next election? I do hope you are right, it will be a landslide for labour | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin.
You do realise she is finished? If she stays then labour will thrash the hopeless tories at the next GE
You're watching too many rolling news channels! They're in a deranged feeding frenzy! Won't be long before Beth Rigby shouts 'when are you resignin' Mr Hunt'
No G
So you think Truss will lead the tories to the next election? I do hope you are right, it will be a landslide for labour "And if after 6 months of that landslide, nothing has improved, you'll be calling for Captain Hindsight to go? There are now members of the public complaining bitterly on Sky News that the energy support package has been scaled back from 24 months to 6! | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin.
You do realise she is finished? If she stays then labour will thrash the hopeless tories at the next GE
You're watching too many rolling news channels! They're in a deranged feeding frenzy! Won't be long before Beth Rigby shouts 'when are you resignin' Mr Hunt'
No G "No G? Is this internet slang I don't know? | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin.
You do realise she is finished? If she stays then labour will thrash the hopeless tories at the next GE
You're watching too many rolling news channels! They're in a deranged feeding frenzy! Won't be long before Beth Rigby shouts 'when are you resignin' Mr Hunt'
No G
So you think Truss will lead the tories to the next election? I do hope you are right, it will be a landslide for labour
And if after 6 months of that landslide, nothing has improved, you'll be calling for Captain Hindsight to go?
There are now members of the public complaining bitterly on Sky News that the energy support package has been scaled back from 24 months to 6!
"If things have got worse then yes, I will be calling for improvements or a change in the cabinet, liz truss trashed the economy less than 4 weeks into the job, that has never happened before, she is toast | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. "what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something". Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in. "She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it. She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
"If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
"she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed. Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards) People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?"Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left' Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons. "I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s. People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
"you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel. I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget. But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower. Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
"Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss. How times change. Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation. Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah. The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel.
I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget.
But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower.
Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts. "You make some fair points. But then again, isn't it all relative? The average wage at the end of the 1970s was about £65 a week? I know people who refuse to balance their income and expenditure so they are not overdrawn each month. They say they don't spend a massive amount on cars, meals out, holidays, new phones and technology, clothes, food or hobbies, but their money must be going somewhere! Last weekend, they were foaming at the mouth about their mortgage going up £160 a month when their current deal ends, but they refuse to contemplate cutbacks, announcing they've just got a new Mazda CX5 on pcp and booked 2 weeks in the Canaries for November to escape the economic gloom! I nearly gagged on my lamb rogan josh! | |||
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"'trashed the economy'? Record employment Lowest ever unemployment Inflation less than 10% Bank Rate 2.25% 2021 - UK GDP growth was 7.5%. This was the highest in the G7 Labour would have died for these optics in the 70s! You're watching too much 24 hour feeding frenzy news! " And you are simply not thinking about what is going on and just how connected the financial markets are to the livelihoods of ordinary people. The cost of Government borrowing today will impact the cost of personal borrowing tomorrow. The actions taken by Truss and Kwarteng were at best cavalier and at worst grossly incompetent. The financial markets saw through what they were proposing and decided that these actions would generate inflation when the BoE was trying to control it. There was a run on the GBP, Government borrowing costs increased (the existing Govt debt now costs more to service) and our credit rating was lowered. The country was viewed as a risky place to do business because the Government were acting recklessly and with a lack of prudence. If the actions were not catastrophic, why has reversing them seen a return of some stability? That said, the cost of Government borrowing has not fallen back to where it was before because the international markets have lost faith and trust in U.K. plc. Liz Truss did that - her and her steering hands from 55 Tufton Street are all culpable for sending a wrecking ball into the credibility of the nation and they are responsible for the what will probably be another big jump in lending rates in November (and as seems forecast right through until June 2024). All because dark money wanted to experiment with the U.K. economy. | |||
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"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss.
How times change.
Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation.
Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah.
The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering.
"You're on to something
People are talking about 'economic collapse' and other dramatic phrases willing Kier to lead them to new sunlit uplands. Really?
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel.
I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget.
But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower.
Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts.
You make some fair points. But then again, isn't it all relative? The average wage at the end of the 1970s was about £65 a week?
I know people who refuse to balance their income and expenditure so they are not overdrawn each month. They say they don't spend a massive amount on cars, meals out, holidays, new phones and technology, clothes, food or hobbies, but their money must be going somewhere!
Last weekend, they were foaming at the mouth about their mortgage going up £160 a month when their current deal ends, but they refuse to contemplate cutbacks, announcing they've just got a new Mazda CX5 on pcp and booked 2 weeks in the Canaries for November to escape the economic gloom! I nearly gagged on my lamb rogan josh! "Why the fuck shouldn’t ordinary people who live in the fifth largest economy in the world expect to have nice things? How is it that in 2016 the U.K. economy was 90% the size of Germany’s and now, six years later it is 70% of the size? Are we all to now plan for poverty and act like we live in a third world country? How has it come to this? I will tell you: 1) Twelve years of Conservative incompetence 2) Brexit - the process and result that divided the country, cost us a loss of credibility around the world, lies trumping truth and an ultimate financial hit that will be twice the hit of Covid. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"'trashed the economy'? Record employment Lowest ever unemployment Inflation less than 10% Bank Rate 2.25% 2021 - UK GDP growth was 7.5%. This was the highest in the G7 Labour would have died for these optics in the 70s! You're watching too much 24 hour feeding frenzy news! And you are simply not thinking about what is going on and just how connected the financial markets are to the livelihoods of ordinary people. The cost of Government borrowing today will impact the cost of personal borrowing tomorrow. The actions taken by Truss and Kwarteng were at best cavalier and at worst grossly incompetent. The financial markets saw through what they were proposing and decided that these actions would generate inflation when the BoE was trying to control it. There was a run on the GBP, Government borrowing costs increased (the existing Govt debt now costs more to service) and our credit rating was lowered. The country was viewed as a risky place to do business because the Government were acting recklessly and with a lack of prudence. If the actions were not catastrophic, why has reversing them seen a return of some stability? That said, the cost of Government borrowing has not fallen back to where it was before because the international markets have lost faith and trust in U.K. plc. Liz Truss did that - her and her steering hands from 55 Tufton Street are all culpable for sending a wrecking ball into the credibility of the nation and they are responsible for the what will probably be another big jump in lending rates in November (and as seems forecast right through until June 2024). All because dark money wanted to experiment with the U.K. economy." You are underestimating the effects of Putin's illegal war and the ruinous cost of covid (Starmer even wanted furlough to go on longer) and overestimating the effects of the Truss/Kwarteng 'mini budget'. As you say, stability is returning, so then you will be left with Ukraine and Covid hangovers, where rising interest rates are a built-in feature. How can Starmer deliver no pain due to these exogenous global events? He is conning you to suggest that he can 
USA interest rates are 3.25%, ours 2.25%
The European Central Bank increased rates by 0.75 of a percentage point in early September and Truss and Kwarteng were nowhere near the controls! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss.
How times change.
Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation.
Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah.
The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering.
You're on to something
People are talking about 'economic collapse' and other dramatic phrases willing Kier to lead them to new sunlit uplands. Really?
"Don’t you understand that Conservatism has no future in the short to mid-term in this country. The very ethos of Conservatism is low taxes and a small state. They just tried to cut taxes and look what happened. Where else are they going to cut from public spending? The lemons are already squeezed dry. Their whole reason for existence is unworkable in an economy that is already so deeply indebted. Labour will do what Labour always do and raise money through taxation to fund the deficit. The broadest shoulders will pay more and loopholes such as non-don status will be ended. It won’t be easy but at an economic time like this looking after the majority will always work better than looking after the minority and hoping that the minority throw down a few crumbs to keep the plebs happy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"'trashed the economy'? Record employment Lowest ever unemployment Inflation less than 10% Bank Rate 2.25% 2021 - UK GDP growth was 7.5%. This was the highest in the G7 Labour would have died for these optics in the 70s! You're watching too much 24 hour feeding frenzy news! And you are simply not thinking about what is going on and just how connected the financial markets are to the livelihoods of ordinary people. The cost of Government borrowing today will impact the cost of personal borrowing tomorrow. The actions taken by Truss and Kwarteng were at best cavalier and at worst grossly incompetent. The financial markets saw through what they were proposing and decided that these actions would generate inflation when the BoE was trying to control it. There was a run on the GBP, Government borrowing costs increased (the existing Govt debt now costs more to service) and our credit rating was lowered. The country was viewed as a risky place to do business because the Government were acting recklessly and with a lack of prudence. If the actions were not catastrophic, why has reversing them seen a return of some stability? That said, the cost of Government borrowing has not fallen back to where it was before because the international markets have lost faith and trust in U.K. plc. Liz Truss did that - her and her steering hands from 55 Tufton Street are all culpable for sending a wrecking ball into the credibility of the nation and they are responsible for the what will probably be another big jump in lending rates in November (and as seems forecast right through until June 2024). All because dark money wanted to experiment with the U.K. economy. You are underestimating the effects of Putin's illegal war and the ruinous cost of covid (Starmer even wanted furlough to go on longer) and overestimating the effects of the Truss/Kwarteng 'mini budget'. As you say, stability is returning, so then you will be left with Ukraine and Covid hangovers, where rising interest rates are a built-in feature. How can Starmer deliver no pain due to these exogenous global events? He is conning you to suggest that he can
USA interest rates are 3.25%, ours 2.25%
The European Central Bank increased rates by 0.75 of a percentage point in early September and Truss and Kwarteng were nowhere near the controls! "Everyone is suffering from the effects of Putin’s war and everyone has a Covid hangover. We are burdened with Brexit which is making us generally less resilient and we are governed by people who feel that an ideology is much more workable than basic economics. Why the run on the pound, why the BoE intervention? Why the threat to pensions? Why the extra tax we will now all now have to pay to fund the increased cost of Government borrowing? You don’t have to look too far to see BoE data that aligns wholly with the mini-budget. You are confusing lending rates with the gist of Government borrowing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel.
I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget.
But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower.
Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts.
You make some fair points. But then again, isn't it all relative? The average wage at the end of the 1970s was about £65 a week?
I know people who refuse to balance their income and expenditure so they are not overdrawn each month. They say they don't spend a massive amount on cars, meals out, holidays, new phones and technology, clothes, food or hobbies, but their money must be going somewhere!
Last weekend, they were foaming at the mouth about their mortgage going up £160 a month when their current deal ends, but they refuse to contemplate cutbacks, announcing they've just got a new Mazda CX5 on pcp and booked 2 weeks in the Canaries for November to escape the economic gloom! I nearly gagged on my lamb rogan josh!
Why the fuck shouldn’t ordinary people who live in the fifth largest economy in the world expect to have nice things?
How is it that in 2016 the U.K. economy was 90% the size of Germany’s and now, six years later it is 70% of the size?
Are we all to now plan for poverty and act like we live in a third world country?
How has it come to this?
I will tell you:
1) Twelve years of Conservative incompetence
2) Brexit - the process and result that divided the country, cost us a loss of credibility around the world, lies trumping truth and an ultimate financial hit that will be twice the hit of Covid."The Tories have only been in sole power since 2015. Brexit divided Labour as much as the Tories. Such a shame Labour left an almighty mess in 2010 that austerity was necessary. Remember Liam Byrne's antagonistic note 'There's no money left' to his successor. As regards 'fifth largest economy' I thought it now lies 'trashed'?
Of course people can have nice things! Communism is a filthy word round here. But some financial discipline is sorely lacking with some people. They won't stop spending and start saving, pay off debts, plan a pension or even to choose a bank account! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel.
I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget.
But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower.
Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts.
You make some fair points. But then again, isn't it all relative? The average wage at the end of the 1970s was about £65 a week?
I know people who refuse to balance their income and expenditure so they are not overdrawn each month. They say they don't spend a massive amount on cars, meals out, holidays, new phones and technology, clothes, food or hobbies, but their money must be going somewhere!
Last weekend, they were foaming at the mouth about their mortgage going up £160 a month when their current deal ends, but they refuse to contemplate cutbacks, announcing they've just got a new Mazda CX5 on pcp and booked 2 weeks in the Canaries for November to escape the economic gloom! I nearly gagged on my lamb rogan josh!
Why the fuck shouldn’t ordinary people who live in the fifth largest economy in the world expect to have nice things?
How is it that in 2016 the U.K. economy was 90% the size of Germany’s and now, six years later it is 70% of the size?
Are we all to now plan for poverty and act like we live in a third world country?
How has it come to this?
I will tell you:
1) Twelve years of Conservative incompetence
2) Brexit - the process and result that divided the country, cost us a loss of credibility around the world, lies trumping truth and an ultimate financial hit that will be twice the hit of Covid.
The Tories have only been in sole power since 2015.
Brexit divided Labour as much as the Tories.
Such a shame Labour left an almighty mess in 2010 that austerity was necessary. Remember Liam Byrne's antagonistic note 'There's no money left' to his successor.
As regards 'fifth largest economy' I thought it now lies 'trashed'?
Of course people can have nice things! Communism is a filthy word round here. But some financial discipline is sorely lacking with some people. They won't stop spending and start saving, pay off debts, plan a pension or even to choose a bank account! "this current crisis: all Putin's fault. GFC: labours fault And that letter: tradition https://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-letter-wider-tradition | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss.
How times change.
Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation.
Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah.
The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering.
You're on to something
People are talking about 'economic collapse' and other dramatic phrases willing Kier to lead them to new sunlit uplands. Really?
Don’t you understand that Conservatism has no future in the short to mid-term in this country. The very ethos of Conservatism is low taxes and a small state.
They just tried to cut taxes and look what happened. Where else are they going to cut from public spending? The lemons are already squeezed dry. Their whole reason for existence is unworkable in an economy that is already so deeply indebted.
Labour will do what Labour always do and raise money through taxation to fund the deficit. The broadest shoulders will pay more and loopholes such as non-don status will be ended. It won’t be easy but at an economic time like this looking after the majority will always work better than looking after the minority and hoping that the minority throw down a few crumbs to keep the plebs happy."Sounds fine. But, but, but. In all my working life, under Tory, Labour, bit of a mix nothing they have done has made any real difference to my wallet. A few crumbs thrown around to keep me happy, bunch of patronising bastards. Is there an alternative, probably not. Worked in US, Russia, Africa, people still whine and moan, no difference, just geography. In 100 years, we'll still be moaning, maybe not on a swingers site, but there will be rich folks, skint folks and some in between, nothing will change. Best try to look after yourselves. Be happy on the journey. Good luck. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss.
How times change.
Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation.
Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah.
The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering.
You're on to something
People are talking about 'economic collapse' and other dramatic phrases willing Kier to lead them to new sunlit uplands. Really?
Don’t you understand that Conservatism has no future in the short to mid-term in this country. The very ethos of Conservatism is low taxes and a small state.
They just tried to cut taxes and look what happened. Where else are they going to cut from public spending? The lemons are already squeezed dry. Their whole reason for existence is unworkable in an economy that is already so deeply indebted.
Labour will do what Labour always do and raise money through taxation to fund the deficit. The broadest shoulders will pay more and loopholes such as non-don status will be ended. It won’t be easy but at an economic time like this looking after the majority will always work better than looking after the minority and hoping that the minority throw down a few crumbs to keep the plebs happy."At last, you've admitted it! Soak the rich
Sadly, those who advocate massive redistribution of income through the tax system tend to overlook that the system is already now significantly redistributive. At present, in most countries the very poor pay almost no taxes, whereas the rich pay almost all the taxes.
When you try to soak the rich, you will end up soaking everyone, including the poor who will be deprived of their opportunities to leave poverty through the old-fashioned virtues of hard work and thriftiness. It is as true now as it ever was that you cannot make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel.
I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget.
But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower.
Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts.
You make some fair points. But then again, isn't it all relative? The average wage at the end of the 1970s was about £65 a week?
I know people who refuse to balance their income and expenditure so they are not overdrawn each month. They say they don't spend a massive amount on cars, meals out, holidays, new phones and technology, clothes, food or hobbies, but their money must be going somewhere!
Last weekend, they were foaming at the mouth about their mortgage going up £160 a month when their current deal ends, but they refuse to contemplate cutbacks, announcing they've just got a new Mazda CX5 on pcp and booked 2 weeks in the Canaries for November to escape the economic gloom! I nearly gagged on my lamb rogan josh!
Why the fuck shouldn’t ordinary people who live in the fifth largest economy in the world expect to have nice things?
How is it that in 2016 the U.K. economy was 90% the size of Germany’s and now, six years later it is 70% of the size?
Are we all to now plan for poverty and act like we live in a third world country?
How has it come to this?
I will tell you:
1) Twelve years of Conservative incompetence
2) Brexit - the process and result that divided the country, cost us a loss of credibility around the world, lies trumping truth and an ultimate financial hit that will be twice the hit of Covid.
The Tories have only been in sole power since 2015.
Brexit divided Labour as much as the Tories.
Such a shame Labour left an almighty mess in 2010 that austerity was necessary. Remember Liam Byrne's antagonistic note 'There's no money left' to his successor.
As regards 'fifth largest economy' I thought it now lies 'trashed'?
Of course people can have nice things! Communism is a filthy word round here. But some financial discipline is sorely lacking with some people. They won't stop spending and start saving, pay off debts, plan a pension or even to choose a bank account! this current crisis: all Putin's fault.
GFC: labours fault
And that letter: tradition
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-letter-wider-tradition
"Yes, definitely a misjudged note! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
you think she has. Others feel she hasn't. Or feel let down and angry she took the actions in tej first place. Saying I'm sorry for the fact I ran over your kid may not be enough if you were asleep at the wheel.
I agree intrest rates were likely to rise. However there were no signs of huge numbers being pulled from the shelf before the mini budget.
But interest rates don't tell the full story. 4pc today means they are as (un)affordable today as any time other than around 1999. 14pc in 1980 is affordable if your mortgage is lower.
Now, that may be people stretching themselves for sure. But we have a vicious cycle on house prices. It's pay 25pc of your income as mortgage or rent for similar amounts.
You make some fair points. But then again, isn't it all relative? The average wage at the end of the 1970s was about £65 a week?
I know people who refuse to balance their income and expenditure so they are not overdrawn each month. They say they don't spend a massive amount on cars, meals out, holidays, new phones and technology, clothes, food or hobbies, but their money must be going somewhere!
Last weekend, they were foaming at the mouth about their mortgage going up £160 a month when their current deal ends, but they refuse to contemplate cutbacks, announcing they've just got a new Mazda CX5 on pcp and booked 2 weeks in the Canaries for November to escape the economic gloom! I nearly gagged on my lamb rogan josh!
Why the fuck shouldn’t ordinary people who live in the fifth largest economy in the world expect to have nice things?
How is it that in 2016 the U.K. economy was 90% the size of Germany’s and now, six years later it is 70% of the size?
Are we all to now plan for poverty and act like we live in a third world country?
How has it come to this?
I will tell you:
1) Twelve years of Conservative incompetence
2) Brexit - the process and result that divided the country, cost us a loss of credibility around the world, lies trumping truth and an ultimate financial hit that will be twice the hit of Covid.
The Tories have only been in sole power since 2015.
Brexit divided Labour as much as the Tories.
Such a shame Labour left an almighty mess in 2010 that austerity was necessary. Remember Liam Byrne's antagonistic note 'There's no money left' to his successor.
As regards 'fifth largest economy' I thought it now lies 'trashed'?
Of course people can have nice things! Communism is a filthy word round here. But some financial discipline is sorely lacking with some people. They won't stop spending and start saving, pay off debts, plan a pension or even to choose a bank account! this current crisis: all Putin's fault.
GFC: labours fault
And that letter: tradition
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-letter-wider-tradition
Yes, definitely a misjudged note! "Attempted to read it from the top but my eyes started to bleed. Off to the pub, day off tomorrow. Night, night, have fun. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It is being widely reported that Liz Truss is on borrowed time. But what happens next? Are we reasonably expected to put up with another Tory Leadership campaign or will an adult in the room decide that it is time to put it to the people?" Not going to be a GE...do you expect any other govt would do so? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss.
How times change.
Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation.
Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah.
The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering.
You're on to something
People are talking about 'economic collapse' and other dramatic phrases willing Kier to lead them to new sunlit uplands. Really?
Don’t you understand that Conservatism has no future in the short to mid-term in this country. The very ethos of Conservatism is low taxes and a small state.
They just tried to cut taxes and look what happened. Where else are they going to cut from public spending? The lemons are already squeezed dry. Their whole reason for existence is unworkable in an economy that is already so deeply indebted.
Labour will do what Labour always do and raise money through taxation to fund the deficit. The broadest shoulders will pay more and loopholes such as non-don status will be ended. It won’t be easy but at an economic time like this looking after the majority will always work better than looking after the minority and hoping that the minority throw down a few crumbs to keep the plebs happy.
At last, you've admitted it! Soak the rich
Sadly, those who advocate massive redistribution of income through the tax system tend to overlook that the system is already now significantly redistributive. At present, in most countries the very poor pay almost no taxes, whereas the rich pay almost all the taxes.
When you try to soak the rich, you will end up soaking everyone, including the poor who will be deprived of their opportunities to leave poverty through the old-fashioned virtues of hard work and thriftiness. It is as true now as it ever was that you cannot make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. "You are the living embodiment of how Conservative propaganda works. I am not poor, and I am not wealthy. My wife and I pay Corporation Tax through the business and we taxed on dividends and the salary that we take out. We pay a lot of tax. The point is that I don’t mind paying tax and I wouldn’t mind paying a bit more to carry on conducting our business in a stable and successful country where our customers are also comfortable and live well. Companies are successful in countries where their customers have money and can live stable lives. “Soaking the rich” is as ridiculous a line as there could be and implies that Governments steal tax and/or spunk it away. That might be true with this Government but I doubt that the next Labour Government would be so p igate.
To simply prove the error of your assumption - just look at the likes of Kier Starmer and Rachel Reeves - did their socialist ideals prevent them from achieving success in the tears before they entered politics? Of course not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it. "Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
"And not forgetting double digit mortgage interest rates in the early 90s under the Tories after over a decade of Tory govt! Sure you didn’t deliberately miss that out? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
she apologised for the fact she went to far. To me, that's additional words to distance the person from the action. "I'm sorry I went too far" is what is needed.
Noone is saying her intent was evil. Absolute strawman. However her actions were at best naivie and at worst grossly incompetent. Given she didn't get forecasts and went in the face of common consensus, I am towards the latter end of the scale. She willfully ignored any dissenting voices because she knew best. She just didn't communicate it well enough. Oh wait, no, she went too far (which based on the size of the u turn is an understatement. She didn't just miss the target it went backwards)
People are pissed that she offered up promises she couldn't keep. Offered hope when there wasn't any. And for many, caused real time issues when their mortgage was pulled. They feel conned by the Cons.
I think she's apologised for these issues, to the extent she added to the woes of rising interest rates for mortgage payers. But those mortgage rates were always going to be in the ascendency following inflation and Putin's illegal war. Many housebuyers have grossly overstretched themselves. My first mortgage was at 9%. I know older housebuyers who recall the horror of Labour interest rates which crossed into double-digit territory towards the end of 1978 and steadily rose to 13% by end of the 1970s.
People are foaming at the mouth about 2.25% base rate!
Our first mortgage was 11.5%, just getting it was a chore but when it dropped to 10% I was in a world of bliss.
How times change.
Actually, no they don't, same shit, different generation.
Has any party made any real difference to my finances, nah.
The differences are so tiny, couple of quid here and there on national insurance and tax but nothing earth shattering.
You're on to something
People are talking about 'economic collapse' and other dramatic phrases willing Kier to lead them to new sunlit uplands. Really?
Don’t you understand that Conservatism has no future in the short to mid-term in this country. The very ethos of Conservatism is low taxes and a small state.
They just tried to cut taxes and look what happened. Where else are they going to cut from public spending? The lemons are already squeezed dry. Their whole reason for existence is unworkable in an economy that is already so deeply indebted.
Labour will do what Labour always do and raise money through taxation to fund the deficit. The broadest shoulders will pay more and loopholes such as non-don status will be ended. It won’t be easy but at an economic time like this looking after the majority will always work better than looking after the minority and hoping that the minority throw down a few crumbs to keep the plebs happy.
At last, you've admitted it! Soak the rich
Sadly, those who advocate massive redistribution of income through the tax system tend to overlook that the system is already now significantly redistributive. At present, in most countries the very poor pay almost no taxes, whereas the rich pay almost all the taxes.
When you try to soak the rich, you will end up soaking everyone, including the poor who will be deprived of their opportunities to leave poverty through the old-fashioned virtues of hard work and thriftiness. It is as true now as it ever was that you cannot make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.
You are the living embodiment of how Conservative propaganda works.
I am not poor, and I am not wealthy. My wife and I pay Corporation Tax through the business and we taxed on dividends and the salary that we take out. We pay a lot of tax.
The point is that I don’t mind paying tax and I wouldn’t mind paying a bit more to carry on conducting our business in a stable and successful country where our customers are also comfortable and live well.
Companies are successful in countries where their customers have money and can live stable lives. “Soaking the rich” is as ridiculous a line as there could be and implies that Governments steal tax and/or spunk it away. That might be true with this Government but I doubt that the next Labour Government would be so pigate.
To simply prove the error of your assumption - just look at the likes of Kier Starmer and Rachel Reeves - did their socialist ideals prevent them from achieving success in the tears before they entered politics? Of course not. "What is meant by "and we taxed on dividends" "wouldn’t mind paying a bit more" - so you're happy CT is no longer coming down? P igate?
" success in the tears before" - what?
There is so little English in your post, Nicola Sturgeon might approve
"you are the living embodiment" is plain rude. It is not against the law to vote Tory. There has been turbulence, but things will settle. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'? The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never underestimate them to scrape out the barrel. The Tories: Official Suppliers of Shit Prime Minsters to HM Government since 2010 and the Labour ones were so much better?…. ?? Actually Ed Mliband would have been but then he ate a bacon sandwich and it was all over!" all subsequent labor leaders have been vegetables (vegetarians) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour. "“...honouring an old tradition that stretched back to Churchill in the 1930s and the Tory chancellor Reginald Maudling, who bounced down the steps of the Treasury in 1964 to tell Jim Callaghan: “Sorry to leave it in such a mess, old cock.” Byrne admitted it was crass and provided the Tories with an open goal. There wasn’t “no money” it was a planned set of budget cutting to balance the books after having had to rescue the banking industry from collapse that would have triggered a global depression but instead “only” resulted in recession that reduced tax receipts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour. "“There’s no money left” was of course true and imbeciles who are incapable of critical thinking still believe that this was because Gordon Brown spunked the money away. The truth is that the then Labour Government invested in the banks to protect British citizens against a collapse of the entire consumer banking sector. Those loans were subsequently paid back, with interest. It was a prudent move that in the long term protected the banks and paid back taxpayer funds with interest. Gaslighting people to think that the global financial crisis of 2008 was all Labours fault and that they subsequently wasted £billions was only possible because they knew that there were enough stupid people around to believe it and still propagate the nonsense a decade later. Yes there was no money left, but it really is a little silly to suggest that an investment into the banking sector was economic illiteracy. Particularly when this current Government has just added £20 billion to the cost of Government borrowing by playing ideological roulette with the economy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour.
“...honouring an old tradition that stretched back to Churchill in the 1930s and the Tory chancellor Reginald Maudling, who bounced down the steps of the Treasury in 1964 to tell Jim Callaghan: “Sorry to leave it in such a mess, old cock.”
Byrne admitted it was crass and provided the Tories with an open goal. There wasn’t “no money” it was a planned set of budget cutting to balance the books after having had to rescue the banking industry from collapse that would have triggered a global depression but instead “only” resulted in recession that reduced tax receipts."So you now accept it was true not a 'myth' and was crass? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour.
“...honouring an old tradition that stretched back to Churchill in the 1930s and the Tory chancellor Reginald Maudling, who bounced down the steps of the Treasury in 1964 to tell Jim Callaghan: “Sorry to leave it in such a mess, old cock.”
Byrne admitted it was crass and provided the Tories with an open goal. There wasn’t “no money” it was a planned set of budget cutting to balance the books after having had to rescue the banking industry from collapse that would have triggered a global depression but instead “only” resulted in recession that reduced tax receipts.
So you now accept it was true not a 'myth' and was crass? "You sound as if you’re spluttering in indignation | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour.
“There’s no money left” was of course true and imbeciles who are incapable of critical thinking still believe that this was because Gordon Brown spunked the money away.
The truth is that the then Labour Government invested in the banks to protect British citizens against a collapse of the entire consumer banking sector. Those loans were subsequently paid back, with interest. It was a prudent move that in the long term protected the banks and paid back taxpayer funds with interest.
Gaslighting people to think that the global financial crisis of 2008 was all Labours fault and that they subsequently wasted £billions was only possible because they knew that there were enough stupid people around to believe it and still propagate the nonsense a decade later.
Yes there was no money left, but it really is a little silly to suggest that an investment into the banking sector was economic illiteracy. Particularly when this current Government has just added £20 billion to the cost of Government borrowing by playing ideological roulette with the economy."How history is sanitised by the Left when it comes to Labour but filthied if it's the Tories! Are covid and Ukraine not exogenous global events? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour.
“...honouring an old tradition that stretched back to Churchill in the 1930s and the Tory chancellor Reginald Maudling, who bounced down the steps of the Treasury in 1964 to tell Jim Callaghan: “Sorry to leave it in such a mess, old cock.”
Byrne admitted it was crass and provided the Tories with an open goal. There wasn’t “no money” it was a planned set of budget cutting to balance the books after having had to rescue the banking industry from collapse that would have triggered a global depression but instead “only” resulted in recession that reduced tax receipts.
So you now accept it was true not a 'myth' and was crass?
You sound as if you’re spluttering in indignation "Virtue signalling | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour.
“There’s no money left” was of course true and imbeciles who are incapable of critical thinking still believe that this was because Gordon Brown spunked the money away.
The truth is that the then Labour Government invested in the banks to protect British citizens against a collapse of the entire consumer banking sector. Those loans were subsequently paid back, with interest. It was a prudent move that in the long term protected the banks and paid back taxpayer funds with interest.
Gaslighting people to think that the global financial crisis of 2008 was all Labours fault and that they subsequently wasted £billions was only possible because they knew that there were enough stupid people around to believe it and still propagate the nonsense a decade later.
Yes there was no money left, but it really is a little silly to suggest that an investment into the banking sector was economic illiteracy. Particularly when this current Government has just added £20 billion to the cost of Government borrowing by playing ideological roulette with the economy.
How history is sanitised by the Left when it comes to Labour but filthied if it's the Tories! Are covid and Ukraine not exogenous global events? "Who did you blame for the state of the economy in 2010? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main " There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis, "I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit "We are now exposed by the war in Ukraine and Covid, plus the mini budget last week had made things considerably worse, all down to the Tories | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sad Truss, unhappy truss, sulky truss, so many emotions, all wrapped up into one facial expression. I just don't see that. She has a lovely smile and expresses herself far better than wooden Starmer and robotic Reeves. Really… she expressed herself so well she only took 4 questions in the now infamous press conference.. the sun and the mail (friendly outlets) and bbc and itv became you have to! 8 minutes 30 of cringe…. Mind you we all saw what happened when bbc local radio stations had 5 minutes
I didn't see cringe with Chris Mason last night. I saw her express genuine contrition and a flexibility to learn and change. What would you prefer she had done - press on with the mini budget?
Markets continue to settle (the FTSE is up around another 100 points this morning) so Captain Hindsight will have to find a new attack line. Sooner or later, he will have to point the finger at Putin. what made you think it was genuine. Her way if wording things tend to lack ownership "mistakes were made" and "sorry for the fact I did something".
Up 100 from a fall of what, 500, isn't great. Maybe some confidence in future interest rates being baked in.
She apologised for trying to go too far too fast. I have no evidence it was not genuine, so I accept it.
She was trying after all to go for growth and cut the highest tax burden in 70 years. Hardly evil intent. Now we have members of the public on Sky bitterly complaining that they have no long term certainty on energy costs as the 24 months cap is now 6 and saying that the scrapping of the 19p tax rate is 'shameful'. You could not make this stuff up.
If I trash a country's economy + lose billions due to my actions, do I get to just say sorry and expect people will let me off?
Starmer hopes people will let Labour off after Liam Byrne's apology for the appalling note he left his Tory successor 12 years ago saying 'There's no money left'
Actually, it's worse than that. He just hopes you'll have forgotten all about it.
Oh dear the “there’s no money left myth” I really thought after 12yrs everyone knew the truth about that
It was a tradition of outgoing chancellors to leave that letter. It wasn’t true! Jeez!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
What part of this Guardian story 'wasn't true' or was a 'myth'?
The letters usually said 'good luck' etc so in that sense they were a tradition but nothing like this had ever been seen before, so much so that David Cameron carried it with him on the campaign trail to alert people to the dangers of economic illiteracy from Labour.
“...honouring an old tradition that stretched back to Churchill in the 1930s and the Tory chancellor Reginald Maudling, who bounced down the steps of the Treasury in 1964 to tell Jim Callaghan: “Sorry to leave it in such a mess, old cock.”
Byrne admitted it was crass and provided the Tories with an open goal. There wasn’t “no money” it was a planned set of budget cutting to balance the books after having had to rescue the banking industry from collapse that would have triggered a global depression but instead “only” resulted in recession that reduced tax receipts.
So you now accept it was true not a 'myth' and was crass? "We’re speaking at cross purposes. The myth was the no money not the letter/note. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit "The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories). The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment. Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies. It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled."Spot on | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" How history is sanitised by the Left when it comes to Labour but filthied if it's the Tories! Are covid and Ukraine not exogenous global events? " "The left" is such a lazy trope. I have voted Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem at different times in my life according to the circumstances at the time. I am not "the left", I just happen to think that Conservatism, as I knew and liked in the 1980's, is no longer possible to deliver. Gordon Brown invested in the banks and the country got that money back - plus interest. You called it economic illiteracy because that is what you have chosen to believe and failed to question your own beliefs. You are suggesting that this Conservative Government be given a free pass because of Covid and Ukraine, but they have made the country less resilient through Brexit and their ideologically driven actions in September DIRECTLY resulted in an additional £20 billion in the cost of Government borrowing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on "How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together! Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. "of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold. Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight. Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends. However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look. For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris. I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget. Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"*sigh* you really need to take that tribalist blinkers off and do some reading. Anyway for the last time... The Govt doesn’t ever have “no money”. It is actually impossible with a sovereign currency. They can always issue bonds/gilts to fund future borrowing but had decided that was not the right thing to do and that instead they should cut spending to balance the books. That fiscal strategy meant there was no slush fund to pay for Tory manifesto pledges unless they were prepared to issue bonds/gilts. If you cannot understand that concept then there is no point talking about it!" How patronising! We all know what was meant by 'no money' Anyway, it's a myth that it's 'impossible' with a sovereign currency to run out of money and default on the ensuing debt. Have you forgotten how this happened to Russia, Venezuela and Argentina in the late 90s? I know you love 'myths' so much (as much as you hate backing down) so let me present you with another one : monetary sovereignty is largely a myth | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
"He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse. That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party. This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion! Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends. But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so. Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends. Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon! Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great! More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds. We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion. And people want them back in power | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power "What a loaf of old cobblers! If Brown had not used everything available to him to bail out the banks there would be no pension funds at all! Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
What a loaf of old cobblers! If Brown had not used everything available to him to bail out the banks there would be no pension funds at all! Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it "You think the gold sell off was well-timed? You think the pensions tax raid didn't happen, or you're querying the damage it did? RBS and NR were bailed out. They did not control every private pension in Britain! Again, poor judgement from Brown knighting Goodwin in 2004 at RBS who was known as Fred the Shred and out of control at RBS (thanks to Gordon's deregulation) acquiring companies and buying some shockers in the process - Abnm Ambro for one. £50 billion odd was the wrong price, the wrong way to pay, at the wrong time and the wrong deal. UK taxpayers would be on the wrong end of a £46 billion bail-out of RBS and we're still waiting to get our money back. Humiliatingly for bungling Gordon, Fred the Shred was stripped of that knighthood 8 years after being given it. But you keep supporting Labour | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
What a loaf of old cobblers! If Brown had not used everything available to him to bail out the banks there would be no pension funds at all! Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it
You think the gold sell off was well-timed?
You think the pensions tax raid didn't happen, or you're querying the damage it did?
RBS and NR were bailed out. They did not control every private pension in Britain! Again, poor judgement from Brown knighting Goodwin in 2004 at RBS who was known as Fred the Shred and out of control at RBS (thanks to Gordon's deregulation) acquiring companies and buying some shockers in the process - Abnm Ambro for one.
£50 billion odd was the wrong price, the wrong way to pay, at the wrong time and the wrong deal. UK taxpayers would be on the wrong end of a £46 billion bail-out of RBS and we're still waiting to get our money back.
Humiliatingly for bungling Gordon, Fred the Shred was stripped of that knighthood 8 years after being given it.
But you keep supporting Labour
"Like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing because let’s be honest now…Gordon didn’t cause the crash…it was greedy bankers playing hard and I can bet you each and every one of them was a Tory….you know the ones who are so fiscally adept | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power "I'd need to double check but i thought the dividend tax was on DB only. Is the argument that this forced more ppl into DC? And that DC results in smaller pensions ? (Imo yes, but laregly because it allows ppl to dial down savings into pensions) That said, I think there is a difference between making tax calls, and how much the government incentives pensions, and making calls that require bail outs. With these cuts, I think it was the speed, which didn't allow trustees time to fund the difference + GB not recognising where he was in market cycles. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
What a loaf of old cobblers! If Brown had not used everything available to him to bail out the banks there would be no pension funds at all! Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it
You think the gold sell off was well-timed?
You think the pensions tax raid didn't happen, or you're querying the damage it did?
RBS and NR were bailed out. They did not control every private pension in Britain! Again, poor judgement from Brown knighting Goodwin in 2004 at RBS who was known as Fred the Shred and out of control at RBS (thanks to Gordon's deregulation) acquiring companies and buying some shockers in the process - Abnm Ambro for one.
£50 billion odd was the wrong price, the wrong way to pay, at the wrong time and the wrong deal. UK taxpayers would be on the wrong end of a £46 billion bail-out of RBS and we're still waiting to get our money back.
Humiliatingly for bungling Gordon, Fred the Shred was stripped of that knighthood 8 years after being given it.
But you keep supporting Labour
Like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing because let’s be honest now…Gordon didn’t cause the crash…it was greedy bankers playing hard and I can bet you each and every one of them was a Tory….you know the ones who are so fiscally adept "Fred the Shred is reported to have rung Darling in Oct 2008 to say "we're running out of money, what can you do to help mate" It was Gordon's dereg-happy approach that let greedy bankers play hard | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
What a loaf of old cobblers! If Brown had not used everything available to him to bail out the banks there would be no pension funds at all! Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it
You think the gold sell off was well-timed?
You think the pensions tax raid didn't happen, or you're querying the damage it did?
RBS and NR were bailed out. They did not control every private pension in Britain! Again, poor judgement from Brown knighting Goodwin in 2004 at RBS who was known as Fred the Shred and out of control at RBS (thanks to Gordon's deregulation) acquiring companies and buying some shockers in the process - Abnm Ambro for one.
£50 billion odd was the wrong price, the wrong way to pay, at the wrong time and the wrong deal. UK taxpayers would be on the wrong end of a £46 billion bail-out of RBS and we're still waiting to get our money back.
Humiliatingly for bungling Gordon, Fred the Shred was stripped of that knighthood 8 years after being given it.
But you keep supporting Labour
Like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing because let’s be honest now…Gordon didn’t cause the crash…it was greedy bankers playing hard and I can bet you each and every one of them was a Tory….you know the ones who are so fiscally adept
Fred the Shred is reported to have rung Darling in Oct 2008 to say "we're running out of money, what can you do to help mate"
It was Gordon's dereg-happy approach that let greedy bankers play hard
"was it only Brown tho, or was it a series of decisons (and across countries?) GB was in the seat when the music stopped. Interestingly, the current mood music is to dereg. And encourage short term risk taking. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
I'd need to double check but i thought the dividend tax was on DB only.
Is the argument that this forced more ppl into DC? And that DC results in smaller pensions ? (Imo yes, but laregly because it allows ppl to dial down savings into pensions)
That said, I think there is a difference between making tax calls, and how much the government incentives pensions, and making calls that require bail outs.
With these cuts, I think it was the speed, which didn't allow trustees time to fund the difference + GB not recognising where he was in market cycles. "Let me know, but Brown was blamed for badly damaging the industry and decimating final-salary schemes. They were the norm once! The coalition vowed to reverse the reforms, but disgracefully no action was taken because the LDs were against it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
What a loaf of old cobblers! If Brown had not used everything available to him to bail out the banks there would be no pension funds at all! Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it
You think the gold sell off was well-timed?
You think the pensions tax raid didn't happen, or you're querying the damage it did?
RBS and NR were bailed out. They did not control every private pension in Britain! Again, poor judgement from Brown knighting Goodwin in 2004 at RBS who was known as Fred the Shred and out of control at RBS (thanks to Gordon's deregulation) acquiring companies and buying some shockers in the process - Abnm Ambro for one.
£50 billion odd was the wrong price, the wrong way to pay, at the wrong time and the wrong deal. UK taxpayers would be on the wrong end of a £46 billion bail-out of RBS and we're still waiting to get our money back.
Humiliatingly for bungling Gordon, Fred the Shred was stripped of that knighthood 8 years after being given it.
But you keep supporting Labour
Like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing because let’s be honest now…Gordon didn’t cause the crash…it was greedy bankers playing hard and I can bet you each and every one of them was a Tory….you know the ones who are so fiscally adept
Fred the Shred is reported to have rung Darling in Oct 2008 to say "we're running out of money, what can you do to help mate"
It was Gordon's dereg-happy approach that let greedy bankers play hard
was it only Brown tho, or was it a series of decisons (and across countries?)
GB was in the seat when the music stopped.
Interestingly, the current mood music is to dereg. And encourage short term risk taking. "I know. And it's not a good look. Yes he was in the seat, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Truss is in the seat when global inflation and interest rates rising. Doesn't stop her getting the flak for how she has exacerbated matters. Exactly the same applied to Brown. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
I'd need to double check but i thought the dividend tax was on DB only.
Is the argument that this forced more ppl into DC? And that DC results in smaller pensions ? (Imo yes, but laregly because it allows ppl to dial down savings into pensions)
That said, I think there is a difference between making tax calls, and how much the government incentives pensions, and making calls that require bail outs.
With these cuts, I think it was the speed, which didn't allow trustees time to fund the difference + GB not recognising where he was in market cycles.
Let me know, but Brown was blamed for badly damaging the industry and decimating final-salary schemes. They were the norm once!
The coalition vowed to reverse the reforms, but disgracefully no action was taken because the LDs were against it.
"he was definitely part of it. The Tories imposed a tax on surpluses which discouraged ongoing funding. Accounting changes had an impact. And pension schemes (in hindsight) were too cautious on assumptions, making the funding gap bigger. I don't know about LD views. I suspect it is difficult to create tax reliefs, especially if books aren't balancing. And DB is often seen as 'the rich" and so you'd be giving reliefs to the higher earners in effect. The government at the time were looking for more tax today from pensions (see pension freedom) not give tax away. The Tories saying they are pro divided tax relief while encouraging DC pots to create tax receipts would be interesting optics.... The two aren't congruent in my mind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Gordon Brown in the main There you go, even though it was a global banking crisis,
I was talking about the state of the economy in 2010 which is the question you asked
We were therefore very exposed when the GFC hit
The major difference for me, call me an old softie, is that the actions taken by Gordon Brown actually prevented the collapse of the banking system and a worldwide depression. The huge short term investment needed resulted in a recession and a need to reduce Govt spending in other areas (and avoid additional borrowing hence the “no money left” note) but ultimately turned a profit for UK plc (reaped by the Tories).
The pandemic on the other hand had some very profitable outcomes for a small number of people. Of course the action taken through furlough etc was necessary to protect jobs and the economy. Of course we needed PPE supplies quickly. BUT the level of fraud and cronyism was eye-watering and has run into the £billions. VIP lanes that enriched Tory donors, friends and family. Written off substandard PPE cost DHSC £8bn. Fraudulent Covid loans at least another £4bn that will never be recovered. £billions to companies like Serco for the ineffective Track & Trace etc etc
So while the economy was damaged come 2010 due the financial crisis in 2008, the actions taken were not just necessary but also ultimately proved to be a good investment.
Whereas the economic shitshow we are seeing now, while again driven by the need to take action due to external forces, has been shambolic, ill-conceived, exploited for fraudulent purposes and the personal enrichment of Tory cronies.
It isn’t the left whitewashing or having double standards etc, it is the actual difference in how these global catastrophes were handled.
Spot on
How is it remotely 'spot on'? You accept there was 'no money left', Birldn says 'no money' was a myth. Get your act together!
Typical of the left to be all over the place and disunited. Another one on here absurdly suggests the Tory Government invaded Ukraine and delivered Covid. Never forget SKS wanted furlough to go on longer like lockdowns, which would have cost billions more. Johnson called it right. Brown caused so many issues by selling gold off and deregulation, amongst his many mistakes, but I suppose the coalition of lefty chaos will now deliver a sparkling defence of Gordon who 'saved the world' of course
This devious, moody guy doubled the debt, sold off the gold and left our children & grandchildren paying the bills for his mistakes. At least he kept us out of the Euro. of only we could replace Browns sold gold with comedy gold.
Browns gold sell off was a mistake, but one that looks more so with (captain) hindsight.
Having half your reserves in one asset isnt smart. Especially one not paying dividends.
However selling at what looked like a trough was odd. His approach was odd. Having banks intervene is not a good look.
For the record, I didn't rate Brown highly. His no more boom and bust was hubris.
I've just read the bill (read missed growth) is estimated between 2bn and 7bn. Which, isn't huge in the scheme of the government budget.
Ps not the week to be calling the left all over the place. Normally they are less joined up than the Tories ... Which makes this week / months even more amazing. It's an absolute collapse. Normally they are experta at circling the waggons. ATM they have the waggons back to front and are still firing.
He was OKish for the first few years (pensions aside), but with the gold sell off, his timing could barely have been worse.
That shocking raid on pensions, where he abolished tax relief on dividends that pension funds received on their investments, had a monumental impact that makes the Truss turbulence a tea party.
This was a yearly tax snatch of about £5 billion!
Devious Labour Treasury officials attempted to dress it up as encouraging companies to invest more and pay less out in dividends.
But Mr Brown’s tax grab will always stand out as one of the monumental injustices perpetrated on the cautious investing public – and rightly so.
Birldn will say it's a myth naturally, but it is true that people are retiring today on smaller pensions than would otherwise have been the case under the Tories – especially as so much of the return from the stock market since 2000 has been from dividends.
Smaller pensions mean people are more likely to claim state benefits. Good work Gordon!
Pension schemes that collapsed had to be rescued by the Pension Protection Fund, through a levy on healthy funds. Great!
More generous final salary schemes would likely have still been going had he not dipped into their funds.
We're talking a loss, with likely investment gains factored in since abolition, of over £200 billion.
And people want them back in power
I'd need to double check but i thought the dividend tax was on DB only.
Is the argument that this forced more ppl into DC? And that DC results in smaller pensions ? (Imo yes, but laregly because it allows ppl to dial down savings into pensions)
That said, I think there is a difference between making tax calls, and how much the government incentives pensions, and making calls that require bail outs.
With these cuts, I think it was the speed, which didn't allow trustees time to fund the difference + GB not recognising where he was in market cycles.
Let me know, but Brown was blamed for badly damaging the industry and decimating final-salary schemes. They were the norm once!
The coalition vowed to reverse the reforms, but disgracefully no action was taken because the LDs were against it.
he was definitely part of it.
The Tories imposed a tax on surpluses which discouraged ongoing funding.
Accounting changes had an impact.
And pension schemes (in hindsight) were too cautious on assumptions, making the funding gap bigger.
I don't know about LD views. I suspect it is difficult to create tax reliefs, especially if books aren't balancing. And DB is often seen as 'the rich" and so you'd be giving reliefs to the higher earners in effect.
The government at the time were looking for more tax today from pensions (see pension freedom) not give tax away. The Tories saying they are pro divided tax relief while encouraging DC pots to create tax receipts would be interesting optics.... The two aren't congruent in my mind. "Most conflicting! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I have needed to get my specs sorted out for a while. I have often wondered why a bin man from Cheshire would such an ardent tory supporter. Put my new glasses on, and hey presto. "His hopes and dreams all seem to be in the bin now! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I have needed to get my specs sorted out for a while. I have often wondered why a bin man from Cheshire would such an ardent tory supporter. Put my new glasses on, and hey presto. "Excellent | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Chaos!!!!!! Will have a 3rd PM within a single year (less than a year). Probably means 5th Chancellor too! Absolute shambles! Such safe hands with our country, our tax receipts, etc etc Getting some popcorn to see how the blue shirts defend this (or deflect it) LOLZ" It is indefensible. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I have needed to get my specs sorted out for a while. I have often wondered why a bin man from Cheshire would such an ardent tory supporter. Put my new glasses on, and hey presto.
His hopes and dreams all seem to be in the bin now!"Not quite. I voted for Rishi | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Strong and stable." I will abolish boom and bust G Brown | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Strong and stable. I will abolish boom and bust G Brown " Excellent, let's focus on the real issue here. Gordon Brown. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I have needed to get my specs sorted out for a while. I have often wondered why a bin man from Cheshire would such an ardent tory supporter. Put my new glasses on, and hey presto.
Excellent "Very good! Irony is my refuse collector was a big Boris fan. Odd you might think refuse collectors can't be Tory. Why wouldn't they be amongst the 13,966,454 who voted Tory? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I have needed to get my specs sorted out for a while. I have often wondered why a bin man from Cheshire would such an ardent tory supporter. Put my new glasses on, and hey presto.
His hopes and dreams all seem to be in the bin now!
Not quite. I voted for Rishi "Who do you want this time ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
