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Renewables record?
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Seems the last couple of days sunshine and offshore strong winds picked our Renewables above or close to a new record at 65% but media are obviously distracted to notice it.
Gas consumption for electricity was 21% yesterday meaning excess can be stored for Winter.
Oh, hang on.. we have no storage here in Blighty so the North Sea and Norwegian surplus we didnt burn has been instead, sold on to Germany via Holland instead of being kept here for a rainy day. |
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"Seems the last couple of days sunshine and offshore strong winds picked our Renewables above or close to a new record at 65% but media are obviously distracted to notice it."
It doesn't get reported because it's not a real story. Yes, wind and solar output peaked at nearly 65%, but it soon fell back to about 30%. Peak gas usage yesterday was 40%, which is very low, but it will go back to its normal 60% when the weather changes. And the weather always does change.
When green energy sources can cover 66% of demand over an entire day, that's when it's worth celebrating. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Nothing was being celebrated.
The point being that although Gas consumption dropped the last 36 hours in favour of renewables, due to not being able to store unused Gas - there was absolutely no benefit to the UK population towards Winter.
The only beneficiaries are those that made profits on surplus Gas sale to Europe.
The post was a highlight of the travesty of having no viable storage here and renewables such as tidal.
Yes, once Winter sets in, heaters and cental heating on, dark days affecting Solar and calm High pressures, the 21GW yesterday will be up at 35-40GW with no conttibuting supply from France or Norway.
All putting a higher demand on Gas.
Absolutely nothing to celebrate. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!"
Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well 
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"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!"
"Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well"
That would be lovely, but it would require a vast number of new nuclear power stations, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!
Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well
That would be lovely, but it would require a vast number of new nuclear power stations, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power."
Tidal is one of the most Powerful and reliable natural sources of energy around the UK. The entire sea moves almost twice a day. |
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"Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power."
"Tidal is one of the most Powerful and reliable natural sources of energy around the UK. The entire sea moves almost twice a day. "
That's absolutely true. It's an incredibly powerful force, ripping turbines from their moorings, scouring out the foundations from under-sea installations, and snapping in half the wave power devices left out in bad weather.
There are some limited cases where tidal power could be usefully harnessed, but not that many. The marine environment is incredibly hostile, and it will always be cheaper and simpler to put up land-based systems instead. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!
Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well
That would be lovely, but it would require a vast number of new nuclear power stations, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power."
Not sure the number would be - Vast. Currently, the Nuclear part of the mix is almost constantly 17%-19%, I have not looked at the size of the UK Nuclear fleet, but only multiplied 5 times would kill off Gas consumption almost completely.
Just the cost per kwh and the waste legacy.. |
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"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!"
"Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well"
"That would be lovely, but it would require a vast number of new nuclear power stations, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power."
"Not sure the number would be - Vast. Currently, the Nuclear part of the mix is almost constantly 17%-19%, I have not looked at the size of the UK Nuclear fleet, but only multiplied 5 times would kill off Gas consumption almost completely.
Just the cost per kwh and the waste legacy.."
The UK currently has 8 nuclear power stations. We'd need another 32 to reliably eliminate gas and coal generation. The number itself isn't very big, but I'd call that a vast undertaking. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!
Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well
That would be lovely, but it would require a vast number of new nuclear power stations, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power.
Not sure the number would be - Vast. Currently, the Nuclear part of the mix is almost constantly 17%-19%, I have not looked at the size of the UK Nuclear fleet, but only multiplied 5 times would kill off Gas consumption almost completely.
Just the cost per kwh and the waste legacy..
The UK currently has 8 nuclear power stations. We'd need another 32 to reliably eliminate gas and coal generation. The number itself isn't very big, but I'd call that a vast undertaking."
But thats whats required nothing to stop the uk building multiple stations at once.
Problem is thers always soemone saying that it will take too long.
Everything is taking too long because the powers that be spend so much time just talking about it 
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Germany did it though stupidly they decommissioned them all.
France did it although there are safety concerns currently being fixed which is why France won't be giving us spare this year as 30% are offline.
How's about 15, tidal with battery storage, more wind as a breezy bonus to sell surplus when available.
Winds great but the last two years, its been still air, hence consuming if so much gas we'll need for Winter.
We can't spend the rest of our lives saying too expensive, too big and not possible when our economy is phucked, people are at risk of literally freezing to death and gas exhaust is destroying our climate. |
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"The UK currently has 8 nuclear power stations. We'd need another 32 to reliably eliminate gas and coal generation. The number itself isn't very big, but I'd call that a vast undertaking."
"But thats whats required nothing to stop the uk building multiple stations at once.
Problem is thers always soemone saying that it will take too long.
Everything is taking too long because the powers that be spend so much time just talking about it"
The problem isn't that it takes a long time to build a nuclear power station, the problem is that is nigh on impossible to agree a site for one. As soon as a potential site is announced, a massive protest group gets set up to try to stop it. All sorts of legal action is initiated to tie up the process, and the financiers pull out because of the uncertainty.
What we need is a change in the law to allow the government to get the damn things built whether the locals like it or not. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
And Tuesday night at 23:40.
UK is consuming 28GW electricity, 6% renewable and 72% from Gas.
Winter is a stones throw away. Storage heaters, Heat Pumps, EV charging, lighting and industry, then Gas boilers.
At the beginning of Autumn over 70% of our electricity is from an at risk source. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power.
Tidal is one of the most Powerful and reliable natural sources of energy around the UK. The entire sea moves almost twice a day.
That's absolutely true. It's an incredibly powerful force, ripping turbines from their moorings, scouring out the foundations from under-sea installations, and snapping in half the wave power devices left out in bad weather.
There are some limited cases where tidal power could be usefully harnessed, but not that many. The marine environment is incredibly hostile, and it will always be cheaper and simpler to put up land-based systems instead."
Narrow minded thinking is why renewable energy is not the answer. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"And Tuesday night at 23:40.
UK is consuming 28GW electricity, 6% renewable and 72% from Gas.
Winter is a stones throw away. Storage heaters, Heat Pumps, EV charging, lighting and industry, then Gas boilers.
At the beginning of Autumn over 70% of our electricity is from an at risk source."
A bit of beat but seems gas is a green energy now according to the EU |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
It has been for a while, especially when it's 'Green Washed' into Hydrogen.
I cannot get my head around that one. Cleaner than Coal, kg for kg Greener than Coal but certainly not Green.
I just hope people have listened and got a gas heater and couple of Butane bottles set aside.
Although 50% cheaper for business today, no mention of severe reduction in consumption as they are in France and Germany.
Looks like the UK is going for broke in "cutting down the last tree".
At least, if there is no supply, running up the bill isn't a worry. |
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"Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power."
"Tidal is one of the most Powerful and reliable natural sources of energy around the UK. The entire sea moves almost twice a day."
"That's absolutely true. It's an incredibly powerful force, ripping turbines from their moorings, scouring out the foundations from under-sea installations, and snapping in half the wave power devices left out in bad weather.
There are some limited cases where tidal power could be usefully harnessed, but not that many. The marine environment is incredibly hostile, and it will always be cheaper and simpler to put up land-based systems instead."
"Narrow minded thinking is why renewable energy is not the answer."
You can call it narrow-minded, or you can call or realism.
The idea of tidal has been around for just as long as wind power. If you look around today you see wind power systems everywhere you look, making a genuinely useful contribution to our energy mix.
But how many tidal systems are there in full time operation? There are 8 in the entire world, with only 2 of them making any useful contribution, and both of those making less than half what a gas power station does.
Is that narrow-minded thinking holding it back? Or is it just that is too difficult and too expensive for too little return? |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
More like no genuine government or private investment into funding development.
As for moorings, this is basic engineering, just like floating or planted turbines.
They talk about storage, there is plenty of unused capacity in Pumped Storage to store energy during days the tides are out of sync. We're lucky to see Pumped used for an hour per day as usually there isn't enough surplus to pump water up as it was designed.
It is feasible and possible and there are numerous places it could be installed if there was the will.
I'm about to install remotely controlled charging intetface initiated by the provider to push cheap juice into the car overnight when available.
This system is ideal for home batteries and EV that start charging once the tide has ebbed to soak up surplus from the Grid.
Wasn't this what Smart Meters were originally meant for? I must have misheard but sure they were sold on the idea to control loads in the property to 'balance' the Grid. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power.
Tidal is one of the most Powerful and reliable natural sources of energy around the UK. The entire sea moves almost twice a day.
That's absolutely true. It's an incredibly powerful force, ripping turbines from their moorings, scouring out the foundations from under-sea installations, and snapping in half the wave power devices left out in bad weather.
There are some limited cases where tidal power could be usefully harnessed, but not that many. The marine environment is incredibly hostile, and it will always be cheaper and simpler to put up land-based systems instead.
Narrow minded thinking is why renewable energy is not the answer.
You can call it narrow-minded, or you can call or realism.
The idea of tidal has been around for just as long as wind power. If you look around today you see wind power systems everywhere you look, making a genuinely useful contribution to our energy mix.
But how many tidal systems are there in full time operation? There are 8 in the entire world, with only 2 of them making any useful contribution, and both of those making less than half what a gas power station does.
Is that narrow-minded thinking holding it back? Or is it just that is too difficult and too expensive for too little return?"
It's only expensive on a small scale, like wind was 20 years ago.
As for the marine environment being too harsh, I guess nobody told Norway that.
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"More like no genuine government or private investment into funding development."
And why is that? There's been plenty of funding poured into wind and solar, so why is everyone staying away from tidal? Is it because they haven't solved the basic problems yet?
"As for moorings, this is basic engineering, just like floating or planted turbines."
It is basic engineering. It's done every day to install off-shore wind turbines. But those are installed in slack water areas where there's less movement of water, to make the installation and maintenance easier.
Tidal turbines would have to be in high water movement areas to be useful, and that's a lot harder to do. Haven't we all recently seen pictures of buildings and bridges being washed away when a river gets high? Lots of water moving at speed is incredibly difficult to resist. And you can't just block it off for a couple of months to allow the work crew to prepare the area before installation.
"They talk about storage, there is plenty of unused capacity in Pumped Storage to store energy during days the tides are out of sync."
The only pumped storage power station that the UK has is Dinorwig. Whilst it is a wonderful feat of engineering, it has a storage of slightly over 9 GWh, with a maximum output of a bit over 1.7GW, meaning that it can supply enough power to run about 5% of the UK, for 6 hours. If we had another 39 of them, we'd be able to cover the whole country for the period between the tides, but they don't yet exist.
"It is feasible and possible and there are numerous places it could be installed if there was the will."
Dinosaur shows that it is feasible, and possible, but there just aren't many places where we could built more. You need a mountain of a certain shape, and we just don't have them. Those that are suitable are mostly in Scotland, where investors fear the impact of nationalism. The SNP also wouldn't want to see UK government funds being put into infrastructure that would make it harder to separate. |
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"I always thought that wood pellets from cut down trees, transported halfway around the world on diesel burning ships were classed as "renewable""
Definitely not.
Renewable energy is defined as:
Energy from a source that is not depleted when used, such as wind or solar power.
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"I always thought that wood pellets from cut down trees, transported halfway around the world on diesel burning ships were classed as "renewable"
Definitely not.
Renewable energy is defined as:
Energy from a source that is not depleted when used, such as wind or solar power.
"
Cut a tree down, plant a new one = renewable. Simples.
Maybe they have moved the goal posts but I'm sure that I read some time ago that wood pellets counted as renewable.
If I've got time later I will look it up. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I always thought that wood pellets from cut down trees, transported halfway around the world on diesel burning ships were classed as "renewable"
Definitely not.
Renewable energy is defined as:
Energy from a source that is not depleted when used, such as wind or solar power.
Cut a tree down, plant a new one = renewable. Simples.
Maybe they have moved the goal posts but I'm sure that I read some time ago that wood pellets counted as renewable.
If I've got time later I will look it up."
It takes minutes to burn a tree but bloody years to grow one.
Don’t sound very sustainable to me  |
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"Cut a tree down, plant a new one = renewable. Simples.
Maybe they have moved the goal posts but I'm sure that I read some time ago that wood pellets counted as renewable."
They do count as renewable, for the reasons you state. In fact that's the only actually renewable energy source we have, since solar and wind aren't being 'renewed' in any way. It's a stupid name for those things. What was wrong with 'green energy sources'? |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"It has been for a while, especially when it's 'Green Washed' into Hydrogen.
I cannot get my head around that one. Cleaner than Coal, kg for kg Greener than Coal but certainly not Green.
I just hope people have listened and got a gas heater and couple of Butane bottles set aside.
Although 50% cheaper for business today, no mention of severe reduction in consumption as they are in France and Germany.
Looks like the UK is going for broke in "cutting down the last tree".
At least, if there is no supply, running up the bill isn't a worry."
As I understand it the EU has classed gas as a green energy no matter how it is used. It has upset several green groups who are to take them to court over it. |
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"It has been for a while, especially when it's 'Green Washed' into Hydrogen.
I cannot get my head around that one. Cleaner than Coal, kg for kg Greener than Coal but certainly not Green.
I just hope people have listened and got a gas heater and couple of Butane bottles set aside.
Although 50% cheaper for business today, no mention of severe reduction in consumption as they are in France and Germany.
Looks like the UK is going for broke in "cutting down the last tree".
At least, if there is no supply, running up the bill isn't a worry.
As I understand it the EU has classed gas as a green energy no matter how it is used. It has upset several green groups who are to take them to court over it. "
"Europe will count natural gas and nuclear as green energy in some circumstances", is the quote.
Nuclear, fine. But natural gas is a fossil fuel and there are no circumstances that it can be considered "green". |
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"As I understand it the EU has classed gas as a green energy no matter how it is used. It has upset several green groups who are to take them to court over it."
""Europe will count natural gas and nuclear as green energy in some circumstances", is the quote."
The words 'some circumstances' mean 'if there isn't enough renewable energy', and this definition is used to qualify sustainable investment grants. There's hardly likely to be sufficient renewables if fossil fuels are allowed to swallow up the grant money is there. |
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"As I understand it the EU has classed gas as a green energy no matter how it is used. It has upset several green groups who are to take them to court over it.
"Europe will count natural gas and nuclear as green energy in some circumstances", is the quote.
The words 'some circumstances' mean 'if there isn't enough renewable energy', and this definition is used to qualify sustainable investment grants. There's hardly likely to be sufficient renewables if fossil fuels are allowed to swallow up the grant money is there."
This is the way of the world. There is many many times the money and lobbying power in the fossil fuels industry. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"As I understand it the EU has classed gas as a green energy no matter how it is used. It has upset several green groups who are to take them to court over it.
"Europe will count natural gas and nuclear as green energy in some circumstances", is the quote.
The words 'some circumstances' mean 'if there isn't enough renewable energy', and this definition is used to qualify sustainable investment grants. There's hardly likely to be sufficient renewables if fossil fuels are allowed to swallow up the grant money is there.
This is the way of the world. There is many many times the money and lobbying power in the fossil fuels industry."
The story said it was the German government that lobbied or persuaded the EU regarding gas being green. Also the French government lobbied or persuaded the EU regarding nuclear. I suspect the big fossil fuel companies were quite happy about it |
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"As I understand it the EU has classed gas as a green energy no matter how it is used. It has upset several green groups who are to take them to court over it.
"Europe will count natural gas and nuclear as green energy in some circumstances", is the quote.
The words 'some circumstances' mean 'if there isn't enough renewable energy', and this definition is used to qualify sustainable investment grants. There's hardly likely to be sufficient renewables if fossil fuels are allowed to swallow up the grant money is there.
This is the way of the world. There is many many times the money and lobbying power in the fossil fuels industry.
The story said it was the German government that lobbied or persuaded the EU regarding gas being green. Also the French government lobbied or persuaded the EU regarding nuclear. I suspect the big fossil fuel companies were quite happy about it"
Indeed, why did those governments lobby the EU, presumably because, like ours, they are beholden to the oil companies. |
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By *rFunBoy OP Man
over a year ago
Longridge |
Pumped Storage: there's more than one. The Loch Lomond one nearly capsized my powerboat.
Sat quietly having lunch when valves opened lifting boat 3 foot and pulling it into a vortex many years ago. |
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"Pumped Storage: there's more than one. The Loch Lomond one nearly capsized my powerboat.
Sat quietly having lunch when valves opened lifting boat 3 foot and pulling it into a vortex many years ago."
That doesn't sound fun.
But Loch Lomond is normal hydro-electric, there's no pumped storage. |
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By *d4ugirlsMan
over a year ago
Green Cove Springs |
"And at 12:45.
Of 27.7 GW consumption
29% Renewables
61% Gas - 3.5% Coal
Good while it lasted!!
Yea it could be 100% all the time with a mix of nuclear wind and solar maybe some tidle thrown in as well
That would be lovely, but it would require a vast number of new nuclear power stations, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
Sadly, tidal is never going to provide any useful level of power."
There you go, maybe the whole world needs to take a chill pill on this electric vehicle stuff, and look at our power grid. Order up some new nuclear power plants, figure out how to store energy generated during the day.
Get china and indias pollution issues under control as well as gavin newsomes forestry management in california that puts so many tons of pollution in the air that contributes so drastically to climate change in california.
Little bit of regulation on our energy markets would be helpful to take away all the payouts that benefit a few people but so drastically affects so many. |
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