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Differences

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Does healthcare for the masses that everyone there pays exorbitant amounts for worth your everyday expense.? Is it worth it if your healthy ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You speak in riddles.

I'm guessing you mean are we happy paying for healthcare via tax?

For most of us, I suspect the answer is: yes. It's far better than having our lives held to ransom by health insurance companies who are only interested in making as much profit as they can. Like in America.

(Give it time, though. The Tories would love to push us all into a private system. Lots of money to be made. And so what if a few more plebs die, eh?)

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"You speak in riddles.

I'm guessing you mean are we happy paying for healthcare via tax?

(Give it time, though. The Tories would love to push us all into a private system. Lots of money to be made. And so what if a few more plebs die, eh?)"
I have the VA and my personal health insurance thru my employer is it any difference? I would say I have dual choices and faster admissions. Is it much better to have that than a overall taxable income when some just take advantage of a system?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You speak in riddles.

I'm guessing you mean are we happy paying for healthcare via tax?

Yes it's different. Insurers can really fuck people over in the USA. Also, people can end up with crippling bills after treatment. That doesn't happen here.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"You speak in riddles.

I'm guessing you mean are we happy paying for healthcare via tax?

(Give it time, though. The Tories would love to push us all into a private system. Lots of money to be made. And so what if a few more plebs die, eh?) I have the VA and my personal health insurance thru my employer is it any difference? I would say I have dual choices and faster admissions. Is it much better to have that than a overall taxable income when some just take advantage of a system?"
I pay 0 nothing I can turn one into the other healthcare wise. so tell me on a personal family perspective. Would you like to have more for you family for the general public perception of what is right? You all confusing. You take the rights of others in to your own perception but claim to be "individuals" yet you truly are not.what is the answer?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"You speak in riddles.

I'm guessing you mean are we happy paying for healthcare via tax?

(Give it time, though. The Tories would love to push us all into a private system. Lots of money to be made. And so what if a few more plebs die, eh?) I have the VA and my personal health insurance thru my employer is it any difference? I would say I have dual choices and faster admissions. Is it much better to have that than a overall taxable income when some just take advantage of a system? I pay 0 nothing I can turn one into the other healthcare wise. so tell me on a personal family perspective. Would you like to have more for you family for the general public perception of what is right? You all confusing. You take the rights of others in to your own perception but claim to be "individuals" yet you truly are not.what is the answer? "
your individualsism a fallacy is it not?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

You not a individual if you have to rely on others..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Claim being a individual society .. you are not.. you are technically a collective hive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Claim being a individual society .. you are not.. you are technically a collective hive."
telle I am wron .. when our hive devices on something and then it is judged as a minority voice being unconstitutional. It enacts a change in other states that people.. yes people in those states agree with. Not federal.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The majority not always the answer. Minority should have the right to challenge.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I would technically rather a constitutional republic over a true democracy any day.. that is just my opinion because the minority can prove thier points to the majority and win . You all accept the " hive" mindset. It's truly confusing. It something that is trying to be adopted here. Tbh do not like it. Voices matter accordingly not the majority according to the laws accepted.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I would technically rather a constitutional republic over a true democracy any day.. that is just my opinion because the minority can prove thier points to the majority and win . You all accept the " hive" mindset. It's truly confusing. It something that is trying to be adopted here. Tbh do not like it. Voices matter accordingly not the majority according to the laws accepted."
there I riddled. Is that acceptable.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I am being blunt. I personally came from a extremely poor family. I personally busted my ass in the military protecting that values others claim they cherish. Now I have my achievements that I refuse to have others claim for the sake of a socialist behavior when they did nothing to achieve my personal standards on not giving up. Am I wrong in my individual assumptions in my sphere of personal influence? My family and friends are my tribe not the overall . I have 0 empathy for someone 3000 miles away that are trying to dictate something that has 0 net gain for me. What is the point?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I would rather my family secured interests in life than someone that doesn't even know my name or family . Tell me I am wrong? What benefits have you passed to future generations other than a healthcare aspect.When I do the same thing with more momentary gains that protect my loved ones? My point is is the European model of " healthcare" the end all assumptions? When literally I have the same and more because of my individualism. What is the dividing line?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To be honest you don't seem to want other people's views.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You get told quite a lot on a lot of your posts that people aren't understanding you or that you're talking in riddles. To be honest I'm not making head nor tail of what you are saying.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

You get told quite a lot on a lot of your posts that people aren't understanding you or that you're talking in riddles. To be honest I'm not making head nor tail of what you are saying. "
how am I talking in riddles.? You can literally look up the difference between a constitutional republic and a democratic one. No my fault if your fingers can't type.what riddle are you confuse about I'll try and explain in lay terms.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You get told quite a lot on a lot of your posts that people aren't understanding you or that you're talking in riddles. To be honest I'm not making head nor tail of what you are saying. how am I talking in riddles.? You can literally look up the difference between a constitutional republic and a democratic one. No my fault if your fingers can't type.what riddle are you confuse about I'll try and explain in lay terms.

I am not the only person that has said they don't understand you. Could you please clarify what you are talking about.

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By *L RogueMan over a year ago

London

You get told quite a lot on a lot of your posts that people aren't understanding you or that you're talking in riddles. To be honest I'm not making head nor tail of what you are saying. "

Same. I think it's a stab at the NHS but not fussed as it's generally lauded globally while America has the best healthcare...if you can pay for it.

So what's brought all this on OP?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Does healthcare for the masses that everyone there pays exorbitant amounts for worth your everyday expense.? Is it worth it if your healthy ? "
is your healthcare worth the costs for others since it is socialistic.when I see everyone struggling everyday on the forums over basic needs ? I see everyone screaming about other costs of a basic living standard.The reliances on government to save your interests on a personal level is crazy.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Literally I make 4 times as much salary than the same over there. Am I wrong in my non empathetic behavior?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Literally I make 4 times as much salary than the same over there. Am I wrong in my non empathetic behavior?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Literally I make 4 times as much salary than the same over there. Am I wrong in my non empathetic behavior? "
I'm I take care of my own.. not everyone that has no direct influence on my life . Maybe it's materialistic behavior but I build for my future generations.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I am a pharmacist.look at the disparity in salaries. Same schools same understanding of our fields. Why the salary discrepancy? Empathy and I admit we do not have it as much. But I would rather secure my family future over others. Without family first you are nothing.everything else is moot.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"Literally I make 4 times as much salary than the same over there."

Google tells me that the average US pharmacist makes $128,710, while the average UK pharmacist makes £46,837, which is $55,825. So that's about double, not 4 times as much.

The difference I would suspect comes from the NHS squeezing prices down as low as they can to keep the healthcare system as cheap as possible. It seems that Americans pay a lot more for their healthcare.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"You not a individual if you have to rely on others.. "

You mean like you, relying on your health insurance? Are you also not an individual?

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"My point is is the European model of " healthcare" the end all assumptions?"

There is no European model of healthcare. The UK has a single monolithic supplier, free at the point of use. Germany has a system almost identical to the US system. Each country chooses their own way to go.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"The reliances on government to save your interests on a personal level is crazy. "

Whereas you rely on your health insurance corporation to save your interests. Having seen how cut-throat US companies can be, I'm happier with the UK system thanks.

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By *ustintime69Man over a year ago

london

This is another of those libertarian rants that makes little sense to anyone outside of the OP.

The NHS is a great social benefit and although it creaks and groans a bit after 12 years of austerity government it is still a good concept although the Tories would love to break it up and sell it off to anyone who could line their pockets along the way!

There’s a lot of chat about socialist tendencies by the OP who seems to equate it to communism and weakness rather than the view here that one is looking after society but then that’s maybe the difference between seeing people as commodities rather than human beings with all their failings?

The most telling point is how much the OP earns!

There are very few people over here earning anything like those sort of figures and so unless there is a rapid rise in pay with the accompanying inflation there is no way that people will be able to afford a similar level of healthcare that the NHS gives.

Also for those who have the finances it is perfectly possible to have most procedures carried out in private hospitals over here already, just as long as you remember that if things go tits up and you have to be blue lighted to an NHS hospital for emergency treatment and ICU then you are of course welcomed even though you cost the NHS huge amounts extra at that point!

We are different countries with different viewpoints and our experience is relative.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

[Removed by poster at 19/08/22 11:52:37]

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"This is another of those libertarian rants that makes little sense to anyone outside of the OP.

The most telling point is how much the OP earns!

We are different countries with different viewpoints and our experience is relative."

I have Googled figures for the average cost of insurance for a US citizen, they vary from $7k to $11K per year and $22k for a family of 4.

If an emergency occurs they get the blue lights and stabilised with no insurance, but they need to pay for medication and treatment post the initial treatment. I'm guessing a difference in emergency response could still occur for insured people..

How do these charges stack up against NI contributions, should we continue to all contribute into the NHS or should we consider letting people to opt out and use their NI to pay for private healthcare?

That approach would reduce money into the NHS, but would it also reduce patient numbers and therefore allow for a better level / speed of service to those using the NHS?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"This is another of those libertarian rants that makes little sense to anyone outside of the OP.

The most telling point is how much the OP earns!

We are different countries with different viewpoints and our experience is relative.

I have Googled figures for the average cost of insurance for a US citizen, they vary from $7k to $11K per year and $22k for a family of 4.

That approach would reduce money into the NHS, but would it also reduce patient numbers and therefore allow for a better level / speed of service to those using the NHS?"
. I am just shocked at the disparities didnt mean to insult anyone. We worked hard to achieve our personal goals. We are safe from any healthcare scares through the VA and private insurance. They offset one another. Trying to wrap my brain around the concept of your NHS eventually the costs has to be passed onto the general public. I just have a more individual approach to everything.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Health insurance is still collectivism. Sure it's more a direct relationship between cost and benefit but it's still pooling.

True individualism is PAYG.

But I think yr point is rich, employed, healthy ppl pay more than they should. Thats true.

But ppl are okay with that as a) they are happy supporting those who need it and b) recognise their circumstances may change.

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By *I TwoCouple over a year ago

PDI 12-26th Nov 24

I am not the only person that has said they don't understand you. Could you please clarify what you are talking about. "

Put me on your list please, I'm lost

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"We are safe from any healthcare scares through the VA and private insurance. They offset one another. Trying to wrap my brain around the concept of your NHS eventually the costs has to be passed onto the general public."

The costs of your insurance (and whatever "the VA" is) gets passed on to you. What's the difference here?

"I just have a more individual approach to everything."

In my eyes you have health insurance, just like the majority of Americans. I don't see how you think that your situation is more 'individual'.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

The costs of your insurance (and whatever "the VA" is) gets passed on to you. What's the difference here?

I just have a more individual approach to everything.

In my eyes you have health insurance, just like the majority of Americans. I don't see how you think that your situation is more 'individual'."

Isn't it more individual in terms of he chooses what he wants, in turn he gets what he pays for?

Here in the UK we all pay in and we can be part of a postcode lottery, in terms of services and wait times.

I pay a significant amount of NI, do i get a significant choice or likely to be told I can go private if I want something quicker? Effectively paying twice

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The costs of your insurance (and whatever "the VA" is) gets passed on to you. What's the difference here?

I just have a more individual approach to everything.

In my eyes you have health insurance, just like the majority of Americans. I don't see how you think that your situation is more 'individual'.

Isn't it more individual in terms of he chooses what he wants, in turn he gets what he pays for?

Here in the UK we all pay in and we can be part of a postcode lottery, in terms of services and wait times.

I pay a significant amount of NI, do i get a significant choice or likely to be told I can go private if I want something quicker? Effectively paying twice"
. It's confusing from my point of view.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

The costs of your insurance (and whatever "the VA" is) gets passed on to you. What's the difference here?

I just have a more individual approach to everything.

In my eyes you have health insurance, just like the majority of Americans. I don't see how you think that your situation is more 'individual'.

Isn't it more individual in terms of he chooses what he wants, in turn he gets what he pays for?

Here in the UK we all pay in and we can be part of a postcode lottery, in terms of services and wait times.

I pay a significant amount of NI, do i get a significant choice or likely to be told I can go private if I want something quicker? Effectively paying twice. It's confusing from my point of view. "

It would be, I remember watching news interviews with Americans who were not happy with Obama care, they would blow a fuse if they had the NHS

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

1) the OP seems to be comparing the average UK citizens' experience with the NHS with solely their own experience in the US. This doesn't really track as by the OP's statements they fall into roughly the top 20-25% of the US income wise, which is MUCH higher than the average citizen, that being said...

2) The VA for those who do not know (and I saw it questioned) is the US Department of Veteran Affairs, and is Socialised medicine. One of MANY socialised medicine systems that operate in the US alongside insurance based care. Each of them have different requirements in order for you to qualify. The VA being that you served in the military. So the OP does receive socialised medical care paid for by the taxes of themselves and everyone else in the US.

3) The cost of healthcare in the US is astronomically higher than anywhere else in the globe. The average per person cost to the payer each year of health care in the US insurance based system is approx $11k, compared to $4100 in the UK. Now if the wages in the US are twice the UK which I doubt universally but seems to be the case for a pharmacist... that still means in the US you are paying roughly one and a half times as much percentage wise for that healthcare.

4) Ultimately the main difference between the systems is who you pay to cover your medical needs. In the UK we pay for it in taxes and never have to worry about the rest of it. in the US it is insurance companies and it is only a very small percentage who do not have to worry about additional expenses, to the point of people choosing between death and bankruptcy. If I lived in the US this would have been the decision I faced when I had cancer.

5) Choice is an illusion of the American system too unless you live in major metropolitan areas. Because there are limits on who accepts different companies insurance and as a result you may not be able to see the person you want because they are out of network. You also have more options in the NHS than may be apparent at first, just takes asking. Granted its a bit of a lotto depending on those involved. But saying there are no options in the HS isn't entirely accurate.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Does healthcare for the masses that everyone there pays exorbitant amounts for worth your everyday expense.? Is it worth it if your healthy ? is your healthcare worth the costs for others since it is socialistic.when I see everyone struggling everyday on the forums over basic needs ? I see everyone screaming about other costs of a basic living standard.The reliances on government to save your interests on a personal level is crazy. "

Where do you draw the line?

Why pay tax for schools if you don’t have children?

Why pay property taxes if you don’t drive and don’t use public roads, or have your own fire damping system in the home?

A State health service is a good thing and is simply an extension of the ideas behind schooling and local taxes.

I watched a programme recently that researched the 100,000+ US citizens who go bankrupt every year because they got I’ll and their carrier declined coverage for pre-existing conditions or they simply didn’t have it.

That should not happen in a civilised country.

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By *uddy laneMan over a year ago

dudley

Where do you draw the line?

Why pay tax for schools if you don’t have children?

Why pay property taxes if you don’t drive and don’t use public roads, or have your own fire damping system in the home?

A State health service is a good thing and is simply an extension of the ideas behind schooling and local taxes.

That should not happen in a civilised country."

Thankfully it does not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Has the meandering rant stopped now?

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By *L RogueMan over a year ago

London

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

"
What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it."

No because you won't get a bill from the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it.

No because you won't get a bill from the NHS. "
"They" bill. Hence the bill not sent to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it.

No because you won't get a bill from the NHS. "
is VA paid by the state ?

How much do you/your employer pay for health care insurance ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Am glad am not the only one confused by this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it.

No because you won't get a bill from the NHS. is VA paid by the state ?

How much do you/your employer pay for health care insurance ?"
. Its funded by the federal government. It is a contractual health care. If you "choose". To go into the military. So to say it's like the NHS it is not. I work in the healthcare field. My insurance is cheap because the shortages of personnel. It's comparable with the NHS.

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By *ondonFunTimesMan over a year ago

Hampshire/Surrey

Quick answer is yes the NHS is worth it. A system that protects the most vulnerable in society and where a lord or a beggar is treated the same in an emergency with no fee asked is humane and the best use of a capitalist society.

Are there problems, of course, but the lack of universal healthcare underlines the inequities in the USA and also can lead to more division. To say it’s ‘socialism’ is overtly simplistic and is a reductive argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it.

No because you won't get a bill from the NHS. is VA paid by the state ?

How much do you/your employer pay for health care insurance ?. Its funded by the federal government. It is a contractual health care. If you "choose". To go into the military. So to say it's like the NHS it is not. I work in the healthcare field. My insurance is cheap because the shortages of personnel. It's comparable with the NHS. "
what do you mean by comparable? Price or service ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think there's a few bits of information that could be helpful here.

Thanks for explaining VA. It makes the OP's rant even more bizarre!

What's bizarre is The VA is for service related injuries. Otherwise they bill my private insurance. It's not the same as the NHS now is it.

No because you won't get a bill from the NHS. is VA paid by the state ?

How much do you/your employer pay for health care insurance ?. Its funded by the federal government. It is a contractual health care. If you "choose". To go into the military. So to say it's like the NHS it is not. I work in the healthcare field. My insurance is cheap because the shortages of personnel. It's comparable with the NHS. what do you mean by comparable? Price or service ?"
both

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Does the NHS provide long term and short term disability insurance? If you out of work you still get a income ?

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By *ondonFunTimesMan over a year ago

Hampshire/Surrey

"Does the NHS provide long term and short term disability insurance? If you out of work you still get a income ? "

The state does that through social security. So yes. The systems are fundamentally different. If you are really interested there is a good book by Ellen Welch called NHS the story so far.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Does the NHS provide long term and short term disability insurance? If you out of work you still get a income ?

The state does that through social security. So yes. The systems are fundamentally different. If you are really interested there is a good book by Ellen Welch called NHS the story so far.

"
ty

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish."

I have kind of lost track as to what the question is now, it has changed several times.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish."

Our healthcare is far from free, I read it cost £192 billion to fund the NHS in 2020/21. I pay thousands a year in NI contributions and employers also pay NI for each employee. Would I be grateful if I need them, of course I would, but do I think they are a gold standard healthcare provider, no. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the NHS can be good and it can be awful, it is a postcode lottery in that respect. If I had a chance to put my NI into private healthcare I would do it in an instant.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

I have kind of lost track as to what the question is now, it has changed several times."

Generally seems to be.

Access to free healthcare to all citizens caused a lack of individualism in the UK.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Personally I think that providing a decent level of healthcare to all citizens, including poor people, is a much better way to spend tax payers money than say. Spunking billions on Trident, pointless wars, mates of the Tories start up PPE companies, etc etc.

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running. "

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up."

If there was a choice of where our taxes are spent, and people chose not to allow theirs to go to the NHS. All that would be left is no funding, and poor people with no healthcare.

(and of course a small handful of alturistic non-poor people).

The NHS needs reform. The current government don't have that on their agenda though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up."

There is ups and downs to both systems. Here I can individually choose my healthcare coverage. Accordingly. It reduces long waits and our system gives better quality of care because the healthcare workers have incentives. Also it cuts down on running to the doctor for every little sniffle that indundates the health care system. Put yourselves in a medical professional point of view. Your NHS workers were absolutely heros. They worked through a pandemic when the whole nation was shut down. They still trudged on. Here I got a hourly wage monthly and quarterly bonuses during the pandemic. In my personal opinion in a national health services they should be top of the pay scales. It's just a observation I could not do what they do there.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

Private healthcare is available here too. For those that can afford it.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

If there was a choice of where our taxes are spent, and people chose not to allow theirs to go to the NHS. All that would be left is no funding, and poor people with no healthcare.

(and of course a small handful of alturistic non-poor people).

The NHS needs reform. The current government don't have that on their agenda though. "

I can see people want all the money going into the NHS pot so everyone has access to treatment, but that is part of the problem, there is no threat to funding and that means reform can take as long as needed, or not at all.

If I have private healthcare and I'm paying NI, why shouldn't I get a rebate on the NI for not using the service as a whole entity. I'm not a drain on resource other than, seeing my GP to begin with.

If a rebate was on the table for people who took out private healthcare, the NHS would have less people using it, but would still receive some money and the NHS would need to up their game.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

Private healthcare is available here too. For those that can afford it."
. We have Obama care to those that are eligible and can't afford it.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

If there was a choice of where our taxes are spent, and people chose not to allow theirs to go to the NHS. All that would be left is no funding, and poor people with no healthcare.

(and of course a small handful of alturistic non-poor people).

The NHS needs reform. The current government don't have that on their agenda though.

If I have private healthcare and I'm paying NI, why shouldn't I get a rebate on the NI for not using the service as a whole entity. I'm not a drain on resource other than, seeing my GP to begin with.

If a rebate was on the table for people who took out private healthcare, the NHS would have less people using it, but would still receive some money and the NHS would need to up their game."

Maybe.

Likely it would crumble further and fail.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

Private healthcare is available here too. For those that can afford it.. We have Obama care to those that are eligible and can't afford it."

I thought Trump scrapped it during the pandemic?

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Not sure why you're associating millions of people in the US without access to health care with "individualism".

Poor people here could choose to refuse the free healthcare and die like their American counterparts if they wish.

So you're in favour of a private healthcare system?

Even with a cold hard brutal capitalist hat on. A healthy population will keep working and keep capitalism running.

I would be for a choice to take my NI and fund my own healthcare. If that happened, it would reduce the amount of money going in but also the amount of people using the service.

The money going into the NHS should provide more than "descent" healthcare, it needs a shake up before it breaks up.

Private healthcare is available here too. For those that can afford it.. We have Obama care to those that are eligible and can't afford it.

I thought Trump scrapped it during the pandemic?"

He tried to... failed... as per usual

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

To be transparent my health insurance with my employer is 110 USD a week. A portion of that goes into a HSA. Health savings account to pay for prescriptions and anything health related it also includes short term long term disability eye and dental. My military VA benefits cover my PTSD and injuries I sustained there. Never had I had to wait hours days or months for a proper diagnosis or a surgery. Hell my husband had his gallbladder removed in 1 day laparoscopy home the next. Everything covered O out of pocket.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims."

And yet it still only costs 35% per person than the US average cost...

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims.

And yet it still only costs 35% per person than the US average cost..."

And yet the salaries of the people you rely on are atrocious. Be the shining example pay the same as we do. They deserve it do they not ? I gave you my history on me. Maybe chemists there should have the same salary. (I said chemist it's the same as a pharmacist here.) They should be top tier don't you think?

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims.

And yet it still only costs 35% per person than the US average cost...

Almost sounds like you want government intervention in order to dictate salaries for people.

Supply and demand and other market forces dictate salaries.

And there are so many other factors involved when comparing 2 different countries than merely the $ amount of the salary.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

It's the NHS no offense to other health care workers . You getting shammed by the general public and the general public want you to just trudge on and accept it. When you went to work relentlessly everyday during a pandemic. While they sat at home complaining. I have the utmost respect for that. You see how everyone comes up with excuses to problem that can't be resolved in the current situation.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims.

And yet it still only costs 35% per person than the US average cost...

Almost sounds like you want government intervention in order to dictate salaries for people.

Supply and demand and other market forces dictate salaries.

And there are so many other factors involved when comparing 2 different countries than merely the $ amount of the salary."
match the salaries is it that hard?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/08/22 18:21:26]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims.

And yet it still only costs 35% per person than the US average cost...

Almost sounds like you want government intervention in order to dictate salaries for people.

Supply and demand and other market forces dictate salaries.

And there are so many other factors involved when comparing 2 different countries than merely the $ amount of the salary."
your government is dictating your healthcare is it not ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Problem with a national health care system alot of people will take advantage of it for their own personal whims.

And yet it still only costs 35% per person than the US average cost...

Almost sounds like you want government intervention in order to dictate salaries for people.

Supply and demand and other market forces dictate salaries.

And there are so many other factors involved when comparing 2 different countries than merely the $ amount of the salary. your government is dictating your healthcare is it not ? "
I individually choose the healthcare and costs accordingly. No government involvement except the VA. Affordability the benefits ect.. Can you agree on a healthcare pariah country that healthcare workers should be top of the salary chain yes or no ? They are here why not there what is the issue. I guarantee if you do that you will be number 1 in every medical field on the planet. Take the cost hits for that if you want to prove your point.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

No,

To your three questions.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No,

No,

To your three questions."
why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree?

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"No,

No,

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No,

No,

To your three questions. why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree?"
I stated bey and I stated again they the very thing you hold dear should be one of the highest salaries. Yet you can't concur why? .

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No,

No,

To your three questions. why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree? I stated bey and I stated again they the very thing you hold dear should be one of the highest salaries. Yet you can't concur why? . "
our CNA get paid more then a RN why is that ?

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"No,

No,

To your three questions. why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree? I stated bey and I stated again they the very thing you hold dear should be one of the highest salaries. Yet you can't concur why? . our CNA get paid more then a RN why is that ? "

A CNA in the US does not get paid more than an RN in the UK... (on average)

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I am a pharmacist aka a chemist over there I make 190k a year. It's not being a bragger minus my 5720 for my premier health insurance which includes my HSA and VA benefits. I think the general public is taking advantage of healthcare workers there. This is just a opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No,

No,

To your three questions. why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree? I stated bey and I stated again they the very thing you hold dear should be one of the highest salaries. Yet you can't concur why? . our CNA get paid more then a RN why is that ?

A CNA in the US does not get paid more than an RN in the UK... (on average)"
it's pretty damn close

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No,

No,

To your three questions. why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree? I stated bey and I stated again they the very thing you hold dear should be one of the highest salaries. Yet you can't concur why? . our CNA get paid more then a RN why is that ?

A CNA in the US does not get paid more than an RN in the UK... (on average) it's pretty damn close"
step up pay the same those people deserve it don't you think?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No,

No,

To your three questions. why not don't the health care workers deserve it? You want transparency to but when it comes to others that the UK takes pride in .. it's the proverbial crickets. They deserve the same if you want to be truly competitive in your standpoint. So why not I ask again? Because it would be a huge increase in your out of pocket expense and now you disagree? I stated bey and I stated again they the very thing you hold dear should be one of the highest salaries. Yet you can't concur why? . our CNA get paid more then a RN why is that ?

A CNA in the US does not get paid more than an RN in the UK... (on average) it's pretty damn close step up pay the same those people deserve it don't you think? "
You all claim the " best" healthcare system. Yet you can't pay the very same people what they are worth. If you payed them my salary per person you would go insane. Yet we have the best hospitals and medical innovation. Pay them what they deserve...

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

43/90 posts...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does the NHS provide long term and short term disability insurance? If you out of work you still get a income ? "

No not the nhs but the department of working pensions does.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You talk a lot about the US system, but whenever it is compared internationally to the healthcare systems around the world it always scores very poorly.

Considering that the US is the largest economy in the world, then you should have a healthcare system to match it.

Have a look at these for example:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

"To be transparent my health insurance with my employer is 110 USD a week. A portion of that goes into a HSA. Health savings account to pay for prescriptions and anything health related it also includes short term long term disability eye and dental. My military VA benefits cover my PTSD and injuries I sustained there. Never had I had to wait hours days or months for a proper diagnosis or a surgery. Hell my husband had his gallbladder removed in 1 day laparoscopy home the next. Everything covered O out of pocket. "

Holy fuck thats a lot.

I can see why millions are left without proper healthcare over there.

Shocking state of affairs that a developed nation doesn't have a proper public healthcare service.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Holy fuck thats a lot.

I can see why millions are left without proper healthcare over there.

Shocking state of affairs that a developed nation doesn't have a proper public healthcare service."
I also make 4 times more than someone in the same profession over there.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

Holy fuck thats a lot.

I can see why millions are left without proper healthcare over there.

Shocking state of affairs that a developed nation doesn't have a proper public healthcare service. I also make 4 times more than someone in the same profession over there."

Good for you.

What do the millions of low earners do?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Holy fuck thats a lot.

I can see why millions are left without proper healthcare over there.

Shocking state of affairs that a developed nation doesn't have a proper public healthcare service. I also make 4 times more than someone in the same profession over there.

Good for you.

What do the millions of low earners do?"

Obama care

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"I am a pharmacist aka a chemist over there I make 190k a year. ... I think the general public is taking advantage of healthcare workers there."

For info: Here in the UK pharmacists (or dispensing chemists) are not employed by the NHS. There are some big companies with branches all over the country, but the majority of pharmacists are independent companies. They dispense prescription medicines for a set fee (£9.35) in England, and for free in Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. The NHS pays the pharmacist for the rest of the cost of the drug. There isn't a lot of scope for huge profits by the pharmacist because the NHS sets the prices for all drugs.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan over a year ago

golden fields

Holy fuck thats a lot.

I can see why millions are left without proper healthcare over there.

Shocking state of affairs that a developed nation doesn't have a proper public healthcare service. I also make 4 times more than someone in the same profession over there.

Good for you.

What do the millions of low earners do?

Obama care "

So you are saying that the US free healthcare, but insurance based system for people who can afford it. Gives people individualism.

Where as the British system. Of free healthcare, but insurance based system. For people who can afford it. Stops people from being individuals?

Anyway, what is the government for, if it's not to serve and look after the citizens? (I'm not saying the UK government does a very good job here btw. But the NHS is one of the very best things about the UK in terms of social care).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've just ran a quote for Bupa in the UK. Went for as expensive as I can get. Gbp1.2k pa.

Someone on 40k a year pays about gbp10k in tax and NI. Which covers more than just the NHS of course.

So the US seems expensive by many measures. I'm getting to paying for NhS (via taxes) + private in the UK is less than US.

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By *L RogueMan over a year ago

London

I'm gonna be honest here. All I can hear from the OP is Money, Money, Money! I have family in the states (NY) who do ok and have adequate insurance but dread getting ill due to the costs that can mount up.

It's as if "Individualism" is the ability to pay without help from the state which is why I found the whole VA thing bizarre as it seems to be a state subsidy of sorts. But the OP says this is fine as he "chose" to join the Military.

If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me as I'm simply wondering why the OP feels the need to attack a healthcare setup that is arguably the envy of many nations across the globe. My relatives don't sing praises of healthcare in the USA on a regular basis and they live there!

The NHS is an old system and concept which has stood the test of time but is in need of some TLC. Illness and bad health doesn't care what's in your pocket or bank account and nor should your doctor or any healthcare professional. It's in a nation's best interest to have a healthy nation of many as that is a major benefit to all.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I'm gonna be honest here. All I can hear from the OP is Money, Money, Money! I have family in the states (NY) who do ok and have adequate insurance but dread getting ill due to the costs that can mount up.

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You not a individual if you have to rely on others.. "

Guessing your do your own urology then yeh? How's that going for you.

You have a specific point of view that you are clearly not going to change or at least be open minded to differences.

If you think it's right that as a collective we come together and ensure everyone can receive treatment then happy days.

If you think because you're healthy now that you shouldn't pay or should pay less then happy days. Nothings going to change regardless.

Its quite funny that if you're born into a shitty situation and end up ab adult without insurance in America you can get cancer treatment and survive! But then in debt. Sorry I meant tragic. Its quite tragic

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The NHS is a pretty good way of pooling risk and also providing a funding model that doesn't risk a lack of wealth from getting care.

(I have theories why the US haven't embaraced this way to thinking, base on it being a new country that has been built on foreign labour)

The NHS needs some extra funding for sure. As with a lot of our challenges ATM, previous generations have not plannwd for the future. Probs coz it would cost them.

I'm yet to see anything that this extra funding is anything like the extra cost you pay from tej US system. Blu has shared their costs. It's not cheap. Their 4x wages are being supported by what appears to be a bloated system.

Not an expert in the US health system but it feels like there are some real barriers to entry if they are charging that much for premiums. Why isn't it cheaper ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The NHS is a pretty good way of pooling risk and also providing a funding model that doesn't risk a lack of wealth from getting care.

(I have theories why the US haven't embaraced this way to thinking, base on it being a new country that has been built on foreign labour)

The NHS needs some extra funding for sure. As with a lot of our challenges ATM, previous generations have not plannwd for the future. Probs coz it would cost them.

Not an expert in the US health system but it feels like there are some real barriers to entry if they are charging that much for premiums. Why isn't it cheaper ?

"
The costs to retain the current medical professionals is a reason why it's not cheap. They are burnt out from the pandemic. Just like your professionals.Giving them a better incentive to stay in the field and attract others is worth the costs. Otherwise You are short staffed longer waiting periods ect.. What incentives is the NHS providing to retain those professionals and attract others to the profession? I have no qualms paying them extra to help retain them at better salary rates.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is a pretty good way of pooling risk and also providing a funding model that doesn't risk a lack of wealth from getting care.

(I have theories why the US haven't embaraced this way to thinking, base on it being a new country that has been built on foreign labour)

The NHS needs some extra funding for sure. As with a lot of our challenges ATM, previous generations have not plannwd for the future. Probs coz it would cost them.

Not an expert in the US health system but it feels like there are some real barriers to entry if they are charging that much for premiums. Why isn't it cheaper ?

The costs to retain the current medical professionals is a reason why it's not cheap. They are burnt out from the pandemic. Just like your professionals.Giving them a better incentive to stay in the field and attract others is worth the costs. Otherwise You are short staffed longer waiting periods ect.. What incentives is the NHS providing to retain those professionals and attract others to the profession? I have no qualms paying them extra to help retain them at better salary rates."

Do you think healthcare is right?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

* a right

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"* a right"
yes it's a right. It's also my right to choose something better is it not?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We have private healthcare here...

So yes. You can choose to have private healthcare.

You live in a society. Do you also question why you have to pay taxes to build roads when you could pay someone to build a better one privately.

Do you wish you didn't have so much money going to the fire service as your house has never been on fire? People could end up abusing it by having many house fires after all

If its a right then collectively you must ensure that everyone in your community has access to it regardless of income.

It's a right until you have to pay for it means it's not a right

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"We have private healthcare here...

So yes. You can choose to have private healthcare.

You live in a society. Do you also question why you have to pay taxes to build roads when you could pay someone to build a better one privately.

Do you wish you didn't have so much money going to the fire service as your house has never been on fire? People could end up abusing it by having many house fires after all

If its a right then collectively you must ensure that everyone in your community has access to it regardless of income.

It's a right until you have to pay for it means it's not a right "
They do have access according to their income.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Obama care plans start out at 79USD individual and 99 USD per family per month. How is that not fair?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I'll gladly pay those prices for the same level of healthcare I have now if you like being fair for "rights".

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

But I don't have those rights because I am above the income guidelines.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'll gladly pay those prices for the same level of healthcare I have now if you like being fair for "rights"."

But thats not how it works isit. You don't play a specific fee for tax...you pay a percentage. This is how it works for the majority of public services. Look at the infrastructure around you now.. built by taxed salaries...

Or would you prefer everyone pays the same exact values.... i hate to break it to you... to make it viable you'd all have to pay tiny amounts as you have to work to the poorest, otherwise they...cant....survive.

So goodbye bridges, water dams, sewage, tap water... can't afford any of that shit.

Guess what if I earn 12k or 150k I have access to the exact same level of treatment on our nationalised healthcare system.. its almost like people hold the same value whether they earn lots or little.

You are the only 1st world country without universl healthcare. Even China is trying to sort it.

Maybe theres a reason for that...

But no, you are right. We are the sheeple with the hive brain. Its why we're all so similar politically and all constantly agree with our prime ministers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is a pretty good way of pooling risk and also providing a funding model that doesn't risk a lack of wealth from getting care.

(I have theories why the US haven't embaraced this way to thinking, base on it being a new country that has been built on foreign labour)

The NHS needs some extra funding for sure. As with a lot of our challenges ATM, previous generations have not plannwd for the future. Probs coz it would cost them.

Not an expert in the US health system but it feels like there are some real barriers to entry if they are charging that much for premiums. Why isn't it cheaper ?

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By *L RogueMan over a year ago

London

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues? "

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

I expect a better health service, not a health service that has +2 year waiting lists, some NHS areas being above average others failing, ambulances waiting hours outside hospitals, not being able to see a GP and many other issues.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more."
that's c 1,5k pp. Which even if we ignore kids is less than Blu is paying for their healthcare in the US.

I don't know how much I should be paying to get the service you are after. But I'd probably lean towards 200pm being a steal when I compare it to dog insurance, boiler insurance, car insurance etc.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more.that's c 1,5k pp. Which even if we ignore kids is less than Blu is paying for their healthcare in the US.

I don't know how much I should be paying to get the service you are after. But I'd probably lean towards 200pm being a steal when I compare it to dog insurance, boiler insurance, car insurance etc. "

I'm not looking at the cost per person because that is not a good measure. I can pay 5 or 10 times a year more than what you pay, I could pay nothing. I may not use the NHS for 30 years, I could use it every day. It is sliding random set of measures that cannot be one size fits all, but it is used to justify the cost. £192 billion was spent funding the NHS, how is it underfunded, as I said it isn't being used by all the people all of the time.

I have private healthcare as well as being forced contribute to a service that is failing regularly. I mentioned in another post, the NHS are not challenged by funding it is law that I pay and employers also pay.

Why should I not be given a rebate that covers my healthcare, I wont be using the NHS, meaning they will have less people to treat, bringing down wait times. They wouldn't be losing all the money, just the premium I pay. Would this focus their offerings and be a fairer way of letting people have choice?

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By *ustintime69Man over a year ago

london

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more."

I think the trouble with the NHS is that it is such a behemoth that to make any rational or quick change in direction is really difficult (just look at the failure of their attempts to integrate IT systems for example) and these problems are made worse by short term political interference.

What covid brought home was that despite all the admirable NHS front line work the problem lies with our whole social care system that creaks from underfunding and also from the loss of carers due to brexit.

Even the covid support package was just another case of kicking the can down the road by increasing national debt to astronomic levels.

We have the highest level of taxation for half a century and a government with no ideas about integrated social care planning.

When hospital beds are being blocked and ambulances are unable to offload patients or to respond to emergencies it doesn’t seem like rocket science to see that doing things on the cheap and refusing to invest eventually makes things break down.

Perhaps this bunch of charlatans we call a government are just banking on personal gain through disaster capitalism?

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more.

Even the covid support package was just another case of kicking the can down the road by increasing national debt to astronomic levels.

We have the highest level of taxation for half a century and a government with no ideas about integrated social care planning.

Perhaps this bunch of charlatans we call a government are just banking on personal gain through disaster capitalism?

Investing in the structure of the NHS is critical. The NHS has become hundreds of businesses within a business. It makes it impossible to deal with, and causes unnecessary bottlenecks and delays. The IT upgrade you mentioned is a perfect example of how fragmented the NHS is, so much so that it was impossible to migrate all of the different systems onto a new platform. It is simply not good enough, a level of competition needs to be injected into the NHS that would sharpen up the focus on getting things right and making interactions frictionless, or risk losing the funding if they can't compete.

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By *L RogueMan over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 22/08/22 12:33:52]

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By *ustintime69Man over a year ago

london

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more.

Even the covid support package was just another case of kicking the can down the road by increasing national debt to astronomic levels.

We have the highest level of taxation for half a century and a government with no ideas about integrated social care planning.

Perhaps this bunch of charlatans we call a government are just banking on personal gain through disaster capitalism?

I think that is rather missing the point tbh. The issue is that of a complete adequately funded social care service as that is where the bottlenecks are happening. I know someone who is a bed manager at one of the major hospitals here in Bristol and she says that between being unable to move non critical elderly patients on to care homes due to lack of spaces and those with mental health, drink and drug problems clogging up a&e departments that the system is broken already. We all need to pay more and invest in improving what we have as the alternative is to see life expectancy decline and increased civil unrest imho

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By *L RogueMan over a year ago

London

It is about money you can go to the other thread and see the failings. You willing to raise the costs to offset those issues?

The failings are not because the concept doesn't work, it's due to mismanagement and underfunding like most problems that pop up in the UK. As I mentioned, the NHS needs some TLC.

Underfunding? £192 billion 2020/2021.

Have I got a right to want a better health service, we all do if we are all paying for it.

We put the NHS on a pedestal, making it pretty much untouchable, it needs shaking up, or it will collapse and be no more.

Even the covid support package was just another case of kicking the can down the road by increasing national debt to astronomic levels.

We have the highest level of taxation for half a century and a government with no ideas about integrated social care planning.

Perhaps this bunch of charlatans we call a government are just banking on personal gain through disaster capitalism?

..and that's where the problem lies. Spend money on the synergy of the services and then the services themselves. Competition encourages just that: Competition. That shifts the focus on making money instead of saving lives. We saw how that panned out during the height of the pandemic when money was pumped into private companies and wasted.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"You speak in riddles.

I'm guessing you mean are we happy paying for healthcare via tax?

(Give it time, though. The Tories would love to push us all into a private system. Lots of money to be made. And so what if a few more plebs die, eh?)"

Why does everyone only quote America as the example of private health care?

Of course we all know the American system is shit so I suppose it's wheeled out to shut down any debate on privatisation.

Private health care works exceptionally well in many countries, and a damn site better than the unfit for purpose NHS.

Before shutting down the debate I think many should open their eyes as to how it works in, for example, Germany.

The private sector provides all health care here and it works for everyone.

To be fair a few British traditions would have to be chucked away. You know, things like waiting lists, camping in a corridor on a trolley, dying before an ambulance turns up and the like. But it would be a small price to pay.

You never know, health care in the UK might actually put treating patients as its primary function instead of being a glorified job creation scheme.

I am in for a minor routine op on Friday, I saw the doctor last Thursday, had to wait a whole eight days. Enough said.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Does healthcare for the masses that everyone there pays exorbitant amounts for worth your everyday expense.? Is it worth it if your healthy ? "

Everyone in the UK spends less per head than the US.

The US system of private health "care" is more expensive and leads to poorer outcomes for the population.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42950587

There are many other sources not paid for by private insurance providers.

Is any insurance worth it if nothing has gone wrong? No. Is it worth it when something significant goes wrong?

Nobody knows when they or a family member will fall ill or have an accident.

The difference is that here we know that we will get the best treatment available irrespective of wealth or employment status.