FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > A trans dyke?
A trans dyke?
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
| |||
"Just been reading about a guy in his thirties (a person with a penis) in Ireland that identifies as a trans dyke. Meaning he is attracted to women. This has enabled him to play Gaelic football in teams with teenage girls. It could be a wind up of course but if true, in a world where we have to accept such things, should we raise an eyebrow? " There are women in sports teams who will be attracted to other women in sports teams.. Ditto there are men in sports teams etc.. Why would an eyebrow be raised? | |||
| |||
 | |||
"Just been reading about a guy in his thirties (a person with a penis) in Ireland that identifies as a trans dyke. Meaning he is attracted to women. This has enabled him to play Gaelic football in teams with teenage girls. It could be a wind up of course but if true, in a world where we have to accept such things, should we raise an eyebrow? " So a trans woman that is attracted to other women? Trans dyke is a controversial way to phrase it | |||
"Sounds very much like a heterosexual male to me "Just the same as you?? | |||
"Just been reading about a guy in his thirties (a person with a penis) in Ireland that identifies as a trans dyke. Meaning he is attracted to women. This has enabled him to play Gaelic football in teams with teenage girls. It could be a wind up of course but if true, in a world where we have to accept such things, should we raise an eyebrow? So a trans woman that is attracted to other women? Trans dyke is a controversial way to phrase it" His (hers?) own terminology. | |||
"Just been reading about a guy in his thirties (a person with a penis) in Ireland that identifies as a trans dyke. Meaning he is attracted to women. This has enabled him to play Gaelic football in teams with teenage girls. It could be a wind up of course but if true, in a world where we have to accept such things, should we raise an eyebrow? So a trans woman that is attracted to other women? Trans dyke is a controversial way to phrase it His (hers?) own terminology. " Fair play. Odd that he/she/they would use that terminology given its a homophobic word. Or maybe it's like queer that's been reclaimed as positive now | |||
| |||
"Just been reading about a guy in his thirties (a person with a penis) in Ireland that identifies as a trans dyke. Meaning he is attracted to women. This has enabled him to play Gaelic football in teams with teenage girls. It could be a wind up of course but if true, in a world where we have to accept such things, should we raise an eyebrow? So a trans woman that is attracted to other women? Trans dyke is a controversial way to phrase it His (hers?) own terminology. " Did you ‘raise an eye brow’ | |||
| |||
"I would imagine this will end the same way England rugby went, by setting up an inclusive category and not allowing transgender women to play in female competitions. If the story is correct, it seems crazy to have fielded this person in the team and not expect the backlash it got. " I guess it depends on the level of competition | |||
| |||
"Sounds very much like a heterosexual male to me
Just the same as you??"A lot more like me than an actual lesbian | |||
| |||
"Sounds very much like a heterosexual male to me
Just the same as you??
A lot more like me than an actual lesbian "How do you know? | |||
"I would imagine this will end the same way England rugby went, by setting up an inclusive category and not allowing transgender women to play in female competitions. If the story is correct, it seems crazy to have fielded this person in the team and not expect the backlash it got. I guess it depends on the level of competition " League competition and any other, is how it is working in English Rugby. World swimming took the same stance and I expect more sports will follow. | |||
"I would imagine this will end the same way England rugby went, by setting up an inclusive category and not allowing transgender women to play in female competitions. If the story is correct, it seems crazy to have fielded this person in the team and not expect the backlash it got. I guess it depends on the level of competition League competition and any other, is how it is working in English Rugby. World swimming took the same stance and I expect more sports will follow." And rightly so, if competitors have an unfair advantage then it needs to be looked at in every sport | |||
| |||
"I actually started a thread a few months back asking if it was transphobic for a natural born woman to turn down a pre-op trans woman (trans woman who still has a penis). I was told by some it was and that it was transphobic to even ask that question " That's not what happened at all. What was said was it's something unlikely to happen and paints the picture that trans people are out there to "trick" people into having sex with them. | |||
| |||
"So I totally support anybody’s right to identify how they choose and live their life how they want. But when it comes to sport a male who has passed through puberty will have a physical advantage over most cis females. That is not fair and skews performance. Personally I think the swimming governing bodies have called it right. If a person born male begins their transition to female BEFORE puberty (ie before the effects of testosterone impact their muscle and bone growth) then they can compete as adults in female events. If not then they cannot. I do not see why female athletes should be disadvantaged. To some that could see me accused of being a TERF (or whatever the male equivalent is) but I think this is about fairness in sport." That all sounds reasonable to me. I still like the Ricky Gervais take on it all in his last Netflix clip. | |||
"I would like to add that I googled this and the only relevant results returned were from: - A TERF website. - A website listed as "extreme right wing bias" So err... Check your sources. People need to be be aware that sites like the above know how to reel in ordinary people and make them feel victimised and outraged." What site? | |||
"I would like to add that I googled this and the only relevant results returned were from: - A TERF website. - A website listed as "extreme right wing bias" So err... Check your sources. People need to be be aware that sites like the above know how to reel in ordinary people and make them feel victimised and outraged." If you google Gaelic football transgender, you will find. | |||
| |||
"I would like to add that I googled this and the only relevant results returned were from: - A TERF website. - A website listed as "extreme right wing bias" So err... Check your sources. People need to be be aware that sites like the above know how to reel in ordinary people and make them feel victimised and outraged." What did you google? First 2 search results if you Google 'transgender gaelic football' are from the Daily Mail, which admittedly isn't a great source and randomly a Sunderland supporters forum. The rest of the results are from places like Irish News and the Irish Examiner and seem to be about the story OP was referring to | |||
 | |||
"I would like to add that I googled this and the only relevant results returned were from: - A TERF website. - A website listed as "extreme right wing bias" So err... Check your sources. People need to be be aware that sites like the above know how to reel in ordinary people and make them feel victimised and outraged. What did you google? First 2 search results if you Google 'transgender gaelic football' are from the Daily Mail, which admittedly isn't a great source and randomly a Sunderland supporters forum. The rest of the results are from places like Irish News and the Irish Examiner and seem to be about the story OP was referring to" I'm guessing they went for "trans dyke" and Gaelic or something. It looks like they call themselves a trans dyke under their DJ guise. | |||
" If a person born male begins their transition to female BEFORE puberty (ie before the effects of testosterone impact their muscle and bone growth) then they can compete as adults in female events. If not then they cannot. " Wouldn't it make more sense to leave it to science and the experts involved in each sport to make a case by case decision? A blanket "puberty" role is quite arbitrary. Being on estrogen can dramatically reduce testosterone. It isnt an automatic given that anyone whose been through a male puberty will always and forever be stronger than people who haven't. | |||
"Wouldn't it make more sense to leave it to science and the experts involved in each sport to make a case by case decision?" Sadly no. As you say each case is different, and the 'science' on this issue is still very undeveloped. It basically amounts to taking in the facts and then making educated guesses at what may, or may not, have happened to a person if they had, or hadn't, taken drugs at a given point in their life. If you have more than one expert, you will have a range of results to choose from. This means that whatever the outcome of the investigation, some will say that they have been too lenient, and others will say that they have been too harsh. In my view, the only workable option is to ban trans people from top-level sport. Yes, it's unfair on some, but it's the only way to keep sport relevant. | |||
| |||
"Trans lesbian here. Trans people in sports - it's complicated. More complicated than tabloid newspaper kneejerk reaction politics. Memories of school sports classes aged 12 to 16, I'd say there's nothing fair even in sex-organs divided sports. There are always some kids that are twice the size of others. The only way that I, and about 80% of my peers, could have been given any fair chance in school sports would have been to penalise the half dozen kids with obvious hormonal development advantages. For me, putting 22 kids on a footbal field when there's only 3 on each side that ever get to touch the ball, was a way to install a lifelong dislike and distrust in team sports of any kind. In my opinion (which I force upon nobody) amateur sports, particularly at youth level, should generally ignore gender completely, group teams according to similar ability level, and emphasise that taking part in sport should be enjoyable. If that had happened at my school, there would have been the majority of the kids enjoying the sport, and the small number of oversized freaks would be the ones that found it difficult to find a place. Professional level sports? Who knows. That's a type of hell that I have zero interest in. Advice to trans people? We're not welcome in sports, we never will be. We're different so we will always be the convenient punchbags for laying all the problems onto. Fuck trying to engage in anything team related or with a competitive element, because if you're good at it you'll be singled out and victimised, if you're no good at it you'll be still be made into a scapegoat for every bit of iniquity and abuse that anybody else feels. If you want exercise, try solo cross country running, or doing a bit of weights at home, or go cycling on your own. Forget swimming pools or gyms as you'll not be allowed to get changed in peace, not even using a private cubicle (why are transphobes so interested in trying to look at _our_ genitals? We don't want to look at theirs!). As usual I've gone on too long. Peace and love everybody xxx." I’m starting to feel way out of my depth here. Willing to learn though and as ever, keen to avoid any offence. On the sporting issue - I would think the number of people that transition, either way? Is very small, a fraction of 1%? From this small number, those that then wish to take part in sport, amateur or professional is then very small again so we are talking of a very low number, so not really an issue? On the trans lesbian side, forgive the interest in genitals and for me being thick, does this mean you retain and use a penis? | |||
| |||
"Trans lesbian here. Trans people in sports - it's complicated. More complicated than tabloid newspaper kneejerk reaction politics. Memories of school sports classes aged 12 to 16, I'd say there's nothing fair even in sex-organs divided sports. There are always some kids that are twice the size of others. The only way that I, and about 80% of my peers, could have been given any fair chance in school sports would have been to penalise the half dozen kids with obvious hormonal development advantages. For me, putting 22 kids on a footbal field when there's only 3 on each side that ever get to touch the ball, was a way to install a lifelong dislike and distrust in team sports of any kind. In my opinion (which I force upon nobody) amateur sports, particularly at youth level, should generally ignore gender completely, group teams according to similar ability level, and emphasise that taking part in sport should be enjoyable. If that had happened at my school, there would have been the majority of the kids enjoying the sport, and the small number of oversized freaks would be the ones that found it difficult to find a place. Professional level sports? Who knows. That's a type of hell that I have zero interest in. Advice to trans people? We're not welcome in sports, we never will be. We're different so we will always be the convenient punchbags for laying all the problems onto. Fuck trying to engage in anything team related or with a competitive element, because if you're good at it you'll be singled out and victimised, if you're no good at it you'll be still be made into a scapegoat for every bit of iniquity and abuse that anybody else feels. If you want exercise, try solo cross country running, or doing a bit of weights at home, or go cycling on your own. Forget swimming pools or gyms as you'll not be allowed to get changed in peace, not even using a private cubicle (why are transphobes so interested in trying to look at _our_ genitals? We don't want to look at theirs!). As usual I've gone on too long. Peace and love everybody xxx. I’m starting to feel way out of my depth here. Willing to learn though and as ever, keen to avoid any offence. On the sporting issue - I would think the number of people that transition, either way? Is very small, a fraction of 1%? From this small number, those that then wish to take part in sport, amateur or professional is then very small again so we are talking of a very low number, so not really an issue? On the trans lesbian side, forgive the interest in genitals and for me being thick, does this mean you retain and use a penis? " Yes on the sporting front, the number of trans people that wish to take part in higher level sports is diminishingly small. But the issue has been used by the anti-trans lobby to stir up anger against all trans people, young or old, whether they are interested in sports or not. Genitals - yes my body is as it naturally developed, I have had no surgery or hormonal treatments. There are however many forms of sexual activity other than penis in vagina and jiggling it about. My primary attraction is more to female persona people than to male persona people, and I would say more to do with emotional responses than physical attraction. And anything that might take place between a female type person and myself is generally going to be closer in type to what might happen in a lesbian type encounter than in a male/female heterosexual encounter. I would never push my identity onto anyone else though, if someone is interested in any form of sexual relationship with me then it has to be based in mutual consent to whatever form it might take. The idea of "I'm a trans lesbian therefore every lesbian must sleep with me" is as ludicrous as the concept of "I'm a heterosexual male therefore every straight woman must sleep with me". If someone is not attracted to the physicality of what I am, or to the type of experience that might ensue, then it matters not what type of label I might put upon myself. And obviously, vice versa. | |||
"Polly you make good points as always. Of course it is very complicated and I am sure most people with any empathy would do all they can to try and understand the barriers and challenges faced by trans people. With sport it gets even more complicated because sporting prowess and achievement in most sports are achieved through physical attributes and, whether we like it or not, men are generally stronger and faster than women. This becomes ever more evident as kids turn into teens and then young adults. The reason drugs are banned is that they provide physical advantages over those who have developed and trained naturally. It is about creating as even a playing field as possible. If someone’s birth gender provides them with an advantage after they have transitioned then that is not an even playing field. In my, admittedly limited, worldview I can only really see a scenario ultimately where we have three or four categories of athletes (not including para athletes). That is why para athletes having multiple categories because otherwise some will have a distinct advantage over others in certain sports (and before anyone takes offence I am not equating trans people with having a disability, merely illustrating the need for fairness and an even playing field). " Birldn, I suspect that we are actually very much in agreement, and sport obviously has more than one purpose. Competitive sporting for trophies and/or prizes and/or recognition is never going to be "fair" to all, however the rules of who can take part against who are framed. Because the whole basis of competition is that it's unfair, it's always about finding a person or team that are "better" in some way than the other lot. Which is why my advice to anyone that is differently bodied in any way is just to stay the hell out of it, the whole thesis of competitive sports is about exclusion not inclusion. But what is tragic is the way that the competition aspect of professional sports gets weaponised, used as a general bludgeon against an entire group of people, and in the process deters folk who really just want to do a bit of exercise and maybe make a few friends through it. It's a complicated business, there are no good answers, and certainly not while there are bad people who just want to use the issues to create trouble in society. | |||
| |||
"Just been reading about a guy in his thirties (a person with a penis) in Ireland that identifies as a trans dyke. Meaning he is attracted to women. This has enabled him to play Gaelic football in teams with teenage girls. It could be a wind up of course but if true, in a world where we have to accept such things, should we raise an eyebrow? So a trans woman that is attracted to other women? Trans dyke is a controversial way to phrase it His (hers?) own terminology. Fair play. Odd that he/she/they would use that terminology given its a homophobic word. Or maybe it's like queer that's been reclaimed as positive now" Queer hasn't just been reclaimed as positive.. Queer Theory wants to abolish the word gay because the Theorists believe it will end homophobia  | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Hate that word "dyke" sounds so insulting "Wouldn't be like the OP to cause insult. Just don't call him a racist in case you insult him though... | |||
"Hate that word "dyke" sounds so insulting
Wouldn't be like the OP to cause insult.
Just don't call him a racist in case you insult him though..."Certainly no insult intended. I was simply retelling a story and didn’t add the word. Funny how people on a swingers site can be so sensitive. Faux reaction of course. No idea what your reference to racism is about? | |||
"Hate that word "dyke" sounds so insulting
Wouldn't be like the OP to cause insult.
Just don't call him a racist in case you insult him though...
Certainly no insult intended. I was simply retelling a story and didn’t add the word.
Funny how people on a swingers site can be so sensitive. Faux reaction of course.
No idea what your reference to racism is about? "I have given Seb a hard time on these forums but taking offence on the “dyke reference” which is what the person in question identifies as according to the articles is misplaced outrage! | |||
"Hate that word "dyke" sounds so insulting
Wouldn't be like the OP to cause insult.
Just don't call him a racist in case you insult him though...
Certainly no insult intended. I was simply retelling a story and didn’t add the word.
Funny how people on a swingers site can be so sensitive. Faux reaction of course.
No idea what your reference to racism is about?
I have given Seb a hard time on these forums but taking offence on the “dyke reference” which is what the person in question identifies as according to the articles is misplaced outrage!"Thank you. And may I add, it’s not a word I use. | |||
| |||
"Thing about the word though is it is a reclaimed slur. like many others it should only really be used by the people who identify that way." Yep I get that. Just like the “N” word. But this was not Seb using the word it was the article(s) and is apparently how the individual refers to themselves. So any outrage should be directed at that person not Seb. | |||
| |||
"Hate that word "dyke" sounds so insulting
Wouldn't be like the OP to cause insult.
Just don't call him a racist in case you insult him though...
Certainly no insult intended. I was simply retelling a story and didn’t add the word.
Funny how people on a swingers site can be so sensitive. Faux reaction of course.
No idea what your reference to racism is about? "I was referring to most of your other posts on this site Racism moi? | |||
