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Freeze the Price Cap
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Ok, looks like Labour have come to the rescue again. First a windfall tax, now they are pressuring the government to freeze the Energy price cap.
Apparently no one was told that the OFGEM could actually be told not to raise energy prices.
Did the government know they could do this?, or they didn’t care?
They are so incompetent they might as well
This will apparently halt rising inflation. Which will ease some of the pressure off consumers.
So freezing the cap is this a good idea or what? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think that the government should force companies to only charge the wholesale price they are paying for the next 12 months.
The profits they are making is frankly obscene.
"
According to the BBC the profit on a 2k bill is £35. That's almost a third the amount the government is getting.
I gues that is why so many suppliers were going bust.
Its the wholesalers making the money.
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
It'sd the Green levy that is hiking the prices on everything.
Britain is being broken by this obsession with net zero while the likes of India China Russia are just carrying on and expanding.
Until we wake up to the fact that these counries are funding the Green Naziz either directly or indirectly to keep the Uk from using it's own resorces and buying thiers.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It'sd the Green levy that is hiking the prices on everything.
Britain is being broken by this obsession with net zero while the likes of India China Russia are just carrying on and expanding.
Until we wake up to the fact that these counries are funding the Green Naziz either directly or indirectly to keep the Uk from using it's own resorces and buying thiers.
"
What is a ‘green Naziz’ ? |
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"It'sd the Green levy that is hiking the prices on everything.
Britain is being broken by this obsession with net zero while the likes of India China Russia are just carrying on and expanding.
Until we wake up to the fact that these counries are funding the Green Naziz either directly or indirectly to keep the Uk from using it's own resorces and buying thiers.
"
All countries should stop this global warming stuff. Let it rip!!
Those that starve can die. Those that drown can die. Keep out the migrants until their armies overwhelm us and kill us all.
The world is doomed. The leaders of India, China and Russia have the right idea. Build huge armies so when your country is unable to support your population you can invade others until there is nothing left.  |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"It'sd the Green levy that is hiking the prices on everything.
Britain is being broken by this obsession with net zero while the likes of India China Russia are just carrying on and expanding.
Until we wake up to the fact that these counries are funding the Green Naziz either directly or indirectly to keep the Uk from using it's own resorces and buying thiers.
What is a ‘green Naziz’ ? "
Ok so it was a typo  are you a grammar nazi? 
And you know fully what was meant but carry on   |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"It'sd the Green levy that is hiking the prices on everything.
Britain is being broken by this obsession with net zero while the likes of India China Russia are just carrying on and expanding.
Until we wake up to the fact that these counries are funding the Green Naziz either directly or indirectly to keep the Uk from using it's own resorces and buying thiers.
All countries should stop this global warming stuff. Let it rip!!
Those that starve can die. Those that drown can die. Keep out the migrants until their armies overwhelm us and kill us all.
The world is doomed. The leaders of India, China and Russia have the right idea. Build huge armies so when your country is unable to support your population you can invade others until there is nothing left. "
Not sure hat was said at all  |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Ok, looks like Labour have come to the rescue again. First a windfall tax, now they are pressuring the government to freeze the Energy price cap.
Apparently no one was told that the OFGEM could actually be told not to raise energy prices.
Did the government know they could do this?, or they didn’t care?
They are so incompetent they might as well
This will apparently halt rising inflation. Which will ease some of the pressure off consumers.
So freezing the cap is this a good idea or what?"
I think the lib dems put this idea out a few days ago, or something very similar. SKS is to set out Labour's idea on Monday but as yet will not say how it will be funded. It makes sense to me to keep the cap and subsidise the company's direct, rather than each household. However in both scenarios the money ends up with the energy people |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Ok, looks like Labour have come to the rescue again. First a windfall tax, now they are pressuring the government to freeze the Energy price cap.
Apparently no one was told that the OFGEM could actually be told not to raise energy prices.
Did the government know they could do this?, or they didn’t care?
They are so incompetent they might as well
This will apparently halt rising inflation. Which will ease some of the pressure off consumers.
So freezing the cap is this a good idea or what?
I think the lib dems put this idea out a few days ago, or something very similar. SKS is to set out Labour's idea on Monday but as yet will not say how it will be funded. It makes sense to me to keep the cap and subsidise the company's direct, rather than each household. However in both scenarios the money ends up with the energy people"
These are private companies with bad business models and now we are expected to pick up the tab |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"Ok, looks like Labour have come to the rescue again. First a windfall tax, now they are pressuring the government to freeze the Energy price cap.
Apparently no one was told that the OFGEM could actually be told not to raise energy prices.
Did the government know they could do this?, or they didn’t care?
They are so incompetent they might as well
This will apparently halt rising inflation. Which will ease some of the pressure off consumers.
So freezing the cap is this a good idea or what?"
So, your supplier has to charge you a maximum price that is below what they pay wholesale.
If the government don't make up the difference, how are they expected to be viable business and nit kead to another raft of bankrupt suppliers?
No one can run a business at a loss and wholesale suppliers are mainly offshore where there us no control over what they charge our energy companies.
I've not read the full brainwave but starting to sound air-brained to me. Forcing the end suppliers out if business will mean higher standing charges and other knick on effects.
OFGEM can set the rate ad they choose, up or down to allow businesses to continue or crush them, this is no secret. Setting lower than the company can pay its own bills will crush them out of business.
So, be careful what you wish for.
If CAP is frozen, someone has to make the balance and Truss has already ruled out Windfalls. |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"The price cap should never have been increased, though what can we expect when powerful folk have shares in power companies."
The CAP had to increase, the prices your company is paying wholesale has increased. Wholesale is now even higher, hence the CAP needs to reflect it in October.
This is about supply and demand, not so much about shareholders. Yes, they are cashing in on higher prices, but if your supplier refuses to pay the asking price the wholesalers will sell it elsewhere.
People need to understand the Energy system is not single layered.
There are suppliers to sell to sellers who then sell it to end users. Your supplier is piggy in the middle. |
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"The price cap should never have been increased, though what can we expect when powerful folk have shares in power companies.
The CAP had to increase, the prices your company is paying wholesale has increased. Wholesale is now even higher, hence the CAP needs to reflect it in October.
This is about supply and demand, not so much about shareholders. Yes, they are cashing in on higher prices, but if your supplier refuses to pay the asking price the wholesalers will sell it elsewhere.
People need to understand the Energy system is not single layered.
There are suppliers to sell to sellers who then sell it to end users. Your supplier is piggy in the middle."
The wholesale market is still there if you agree to long term contracts, but for nearly two years energy has been purchased at the daily spot price which is overpriced China and India do agree to long term contracts and will be able to undercut the competition by the fact they are not paying for overpriced energy for the corporations and the public. |
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"Ok, looks like Labour have come to the rescue again. First a windfall tax, now they are pressuring the government to freeze the Energy price cap.
Apparently no one was told that the OFGEM could actually be told not to raise energy prices.
Did the government know they could do this?, or they didn’t care?
They are so incompetent they might as well
This will apparently halt rising inflation. Which will ease some of the pressure off consumers.
So freezing the cap is this a good idea or what?
So, your supplier has to charge you a maximum price that is below what they pay wholesale.
If the government don't make up the difference, how are they expected to be viable business and nit kead to another raft of bankrupt suppliers?
No one can run a business at a loss and wholesale suppliers are mainly offshore where there us no control over what they charge our energy companies.
I've not read the full brainwave but starting to sound air-brained to me. Forcing the end suppliers out if business will mean higher standing charges and other knick on effects.
OFGEM can set the rate ad they choose, up or down to allow businesses to continue or crush them, this is no secret. Setting lower than the company can pay its own bills will crush them out of business.
So, be careful what you wish for.
If CAP is frozen, someone has to make the balance and Truss has already ruled out Windfalls."
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"The price cap should never have been increased, though what can we expect when powerful folk have shares in power companies.
The CAP had to increase, the prices your company is paying wholesale has increased. Wholesale is now even higher, hence the CAP needs to reflect it in October.
This is about supply and demand, not so much about shareholders. Yes, they are cashing in on higher prices, but if your supplier refuses to pay the asking price the wholesalers will sell it elsewhere.
People need to understand the Energy system is not single layered.
There are suppliers to sell to sellers who then sell it to end users. Your supplier is piggy in the middle.
The wholesale market is still there if you agree to long term contracts, but for nearly two years energy has been purchased at the daily spot price which is overpriced China and India do agree to long term contracts and will be able to undercut the competition by the fact they are not paying for overpriced energy for the corporations and the public."
Does it not occur that having 10 of 1,000's of unplanned customers dumped on your doorstep from companies that went bust kind of completely fucks up any long term planning you made? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Something has to give, and the current government isn't equipped to deal with such a crisis, A freeze on the cap will ease the pressure, with other mechanisms.
I don't think this government last long if it doesn't make bold decisions to help everyone. |
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"... therfore, leaving the remaining companies wide open to spot-pricing."
A good reason to have one national supplier that provides cheap energy supply with a national reserve, rather than the not working threats of non payment to civil unrest. |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
Totally agree, but not at the cost of the end suppliers who are victims in this as much as we are.
I don't believe that tax funded relief should be powering hot-tubs, pools, saunas in the houses of those that can well afford it.
I know people in £multimillion houses who also will get the £400 rebate this winter.
It should be focused or based on an average house per kw relief.
I'll say it again, if governments had done something instead of talking shit for the last 25yrs, we would be not so damned reliant on gas for electricity, the main consumption in this country.
Hell bent on pushing us into electric vehicles and installing heat pumps to "electrify" our heating and hot water.
Mid summers night, 11pm and of the 27gw this country is currently using, 61% is from gas. People seriously believe the lights will stay on in Winter - not a frickin chance.
Today I've consumed 15kwh in Air Conditioning alone.
(Damned typos - why can't posts be edited)
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"... therfore, leaving the remaining companies wide open to spot-pricing.
A good reason to have one national supplier that provides cheap energy supply with a national reserve, rather than the not working threats of non payment to civil unrest."
And leave us with a non competitive market like the good old days!! |
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"Totally agree, but not at the cost of the end suppliers who are victims in this as much as we are.
I don't believe that tax funded relief should be powering hot-tubs, pools, saunas in the houses of those that can well afford it.
I know people in £multimillion houses who also will get the £400 rebate this winter.
It should be focused or based on an average house per kw relief.
I'll say it again, if governments had done something instead of talking shit for the last 25yrs, we would be not so damned reliant on gas for electricity, the main consumption in this country.
Hell bent on pushing us into electric vehicles and installing heat pumps to "electrify" our heating and hot water.
Mid summers night, 11pm and of the 27gw this country is currently using, 61% is from gas. People seriously believe the lights will stay on in Winter - not a frickin chance.
Today I've consumed 15kwh in Air Conditioning alone.
(Damned typos - why can't posts be edited)
"
The energy companies are receiving the £400 on each account even if the ones who did not need the £400 they can not give it away or return the money.  |
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"... therfore, leaving the remaining companies wide open to spot-pricing.
A good reason to have one national supplier that provides cheap energy supply with a national reserve, rather than the not working threats of non payment to civil unrest.
And leave us with a non competitive market like the good old days!!"
And the market is competitive now with energy companies not been able to deal or react to new customers or customers leaving. |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
Oh dear.. if that's so, then so be it.
I thought it was being given to them, to give to customers to take it back so they and customers can pay the extortionate prices they are being charged on wholesale.
It's a 3 layered system.
Wholesalers
End suppliers
Customers
Believe me, they are paying a damn sight more than an extra £400 on their side as their current cost is well above capped rates. So, it's good they get kept afloat too.
I'm fixed for another 30 months at 8p gas, 19p electricity, they ain't making much out of me and many others right now, most likely, even a losses.
They took the windfall from the Wholesalers, gave it to customers to help them pay the high price both the suppliers and consumers 'have' to charge to cover their costs.
If you've run a business, you'd understand.. |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"(Damned typos - why can't posts be edited)
Am I the only one that has a 'preview' button that allows me to proof-read, spell check, and edit out all the mistakes before posting?"
Dyslexia - nightmare sometimes!! |
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"Oh dear.. if that's so, then so be it.
I thought it was being given to them, to give to customers to take it back so they and customers can pay the extortionate prices they are being charged on wholesale.
It's a 3 layered system.
Wholesalers
End suppliers
Customers
Believe me, they are paying a damn sight more than an extra £400 on their side as their current cost is well above capped rates. So, it's good they get kept afloat too.
I'm fixed for another 30 months at 8p gas, 19p electricity, they ain't making much out of me and many others right now, most likely, even a losses.
They took the windfall from the Wholesalers, gave it to customers to help them pay the high price both the suppliers and consumers 'have' to charge to cover their costs.
If you've run a business, you'd understand.."
I have and I received dividends every quarter to lower my tax burden at the year end.
Question what is the point of the energy companies investers and what does the money they invest actually buy or is used for. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Trust me in a few months time the Government will have no choice but to freeze the cap and take another windfall tax to cover it, and Labour are taking the lead in making the right calls.
When Truss is PM she will have the same crisis like Theresa May, she is a lame duck PM from Day one. |
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The energy market is imperfect in itself however UK users cannot be held to the fire because of that. The price increase in France was limited to 4%...no stories of companies going bust because they have a different market place. The threatened price increase in the UK is 217%. Its government choice as to how the country handles this, not bowing to international pressure nor allowing obscene profits for power companies. The big six are not going bankrupt on those profits if the price cap is frozen. The oil companies are the same. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"... therfore, leaving the remaining companies wide open to spot-pricing.
A good reason to have one national supplier that provides cheap energy supply with a national reserve, rather than the not working threats of non payment to civil unrest.
And leave us with a non competitive market like the good old days!!"
Were you ripped off by an uncompetitive market in the good old days? |
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"Question what is the point of the energy companies investors and what does the money they invest actually buy or is used for."
The purpose of oil company share sales today, is to create investors in the past.
I'll explain. When a company starts, it needs investors to provide capital, so it issues shares for sale, and banks the resulting cash. Those investors are taking a risk, so they want good returns, say 100% on their investment. To get that return, there has to be a market in second-hand shares for them to sell to. If there was no share market, the investor would have his money tied up forever. He doesn't want the 5% dividend a year, he wants to claim his 100% now, and move on to something else.
So, the fact that a share market will exist in the future, is what makes investors invest today.
None of the money paid in the trading of oil company shares today goes to the oil company. But the oil company benefits in reputation. If they wanted to raise money next year, by issuing more shares, their high share price will make investors more likely to buy them. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Something has to give, and the current government isn't equipped to deal with such a crisis, A freeze on the cap will ease the pressure, with other mechanisms.
I don't think this government last long if it doesn't make bold decisions to help everyone. "
On the face if it I like this idea. On the BBC they said the IMF had raised a few points. One was the cost that according to them would be huge, possibly similar to furlough and not all would be able to come from extra tax. They said that if you want to spend this amount to freeze everyone's bills then it will work but it means subsidising the very rich as much if not more than the poor. So the biggest winners as so often would be the better of. I did like the fact that it would help reduce inflation and therefore reduce government debt payments, I thought that was quite clever. If the government do adopt something like this I suspect it will be tweaked. Good to see ideas going forward anyway |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
"The energy market is imperfect in itself however UK users cannot be held to the fire because of that. The price increase in France was limited to 4%...no stories of companies going bust because they have a different market place. The threatened price increase in the UK is 217%. Its government choice as to how the country handles this, not bowing to international pressure nor allowing obscene profits for power companies. The big six are not going bankrupt on those profits if the price cap is frozen. The oil companies are the same."
You'll find the countries with restricted price rises and still afloat is due to the government paying in the difference directly, especially France.
Forcing a restricted rises on our suppliers will destroy them without a number 10's chequebook and pen.
Blankety-Blank cheques.
If you refuse to bow to the wholesale prices, expect supplies to go elsewhere this winter. The highest bidders win, Germany. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"EDF have started legal action against the French Goverment, claiming €8 billion for being forced to sell energy at a loss."
While the company might make a loss this year the execsans staff are still getting paid
and next year they will be up! |
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"Ok, looks like Labour have come to the rescue again. First a windfall tax, now they are pressuring the government to freeze the Energy price cap.
Apparently no one was told that the OFGEM could actually be told not to raise energy prices.
Did the government know they could do this?, or they didn’t care?
They are so incompetent they might as well
This will apparently halt rising inflation. Which will ease some of the pressure off consumers.
So freezing the cap is this a good idea or what?"
The Tory government didn't seem to know that they could control immigration before sending us down the suicidal brexit path... |
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