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Channel crossing question
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We are told that when these people get in the dinghies, they get rid of all ID, documents, mobile phones. They arrive with nothing.
Is this right?
If I rocked up on a French beach with nothing I wouldn’t last very long. What would / could I do? I have a friend that lives in the south of France but would have no way of contacting him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We are told that when these people get in the dinghies, they get rid of all ID, documents, mobile phones. They arrive with nothing.
Is this right?
If I rocked up on a French beach with nothing I wouldn’t last very long. What would / could I do? I have a friend that lives in the south of France but would have no way of contacting him. "
We are told this. Howeve I don't know if it is true or not.
Assuming they are, I'd guess the implication is they are building a false story about who they are to claim asylum.
If so, if you are going to France by dinghy and dumping yr stuff the way are, then you may be doing it for the same reasons.
So cam I suggest going to the authorities and claiming asylum?
Another reason for dumping phones is because they are told to by the human trafficers that thrive due to our catch 22 asylum laws. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We are told that when these people get in the dinghies, they get rid of all ID, documents, mobile phones. They arrive with nothing.
Is this right?
If I rocked up on a French beach with nothing I wouldn’t last very long. What would / could I do? I have a friend that lives in the south of France but would have no way of contacting him. "
‘Who’ told you this happens? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them."
And if they refused? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? "
shoot the twats how dare they refuse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? shoot the twats how dare they refuse."
Ah right, just like the nazis did with the Jews? How many would you kill? Would you shoot the women and children last? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? "
He.. He refused |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused?
He.. He refused "
Ah yes, thanks for correcting my error whilst ignoring the poster who suggested shooting ‘him’  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We are told that when these people get in the dinghies, they get rid of all ID, documents, mobile phones. They arrive with nothing.
Is this right?
If I rocked up on a French beach with nothing I wouldn’t last very long. What would / could I do? I have a friend that lives in the south of France but would have no way of contacting him. "
Is he called Varg Vikernes by any chance? |
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"We are told that when these people get in the dinghies, they get rid of all ID, documents, mobile phones. They arrive with nothing.
Is this right?
If I rocked up on a French beach with nothing I wouldn’t last very long. What would / could I do? I have a friend that lives in the south of France but would have no way of contacting him.
Is he called Varg Vikernes by any chance?"
Holy shit, never expected someone to reference that shithead Varg on this forum LOL |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused?
He.. He refused
Ah yes, thanks for correcting my error whilst ignoring the poster who suggested shooting ‘him’ "
I read the shooting him as more of a quip, didn't you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused?
He.. He refused
Ah yes, thanks for correcting my error whilst ignoring the poster who suggested shooting ‘him’
I read the shooting him as more of a quip, didn't you? "
Who knows? It isn’t the first time he has made these types of ‘quips’  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? shoot the twats how dare they refuse.
Ah right, just like the nazis did with the Jews? How many would you kill? Would you shoot the women and children last? "
as many as it took yes woman and children why wouldn't I there all illegal no difference between them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? shoot the twats how dare they refuse.
Ah right, just like the nazis did with the Jews? How many would you kill? Would you shoot the women and children last? as many as it took yes woman and children why wouldn't I there all illegal no difference between them."
I see, would you shoot them on the beach or take them to special camps to be shot? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When they search them they put those they've searched back in with others yet to be searched. Pretty clear risk of firearms being smuggled in but hey can't raise objections because it would make us waysist. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When they search them they put those they've searched back in with others yet to be searched. Pretty clear risk of firearms being smuggled in but hey can't raise objections because it would make us waysist."
That sounds like worry, is there any evidence they are bringing in firearms? Do you think they should be shot ? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused?
He.. He refused
Ah yes, thanks for correcting my error whilst ignoring the poster who suggested shooting ‘him’
I read the shooting him as more of a quip, didn't you?
Who knows? It isn’t the first time he has made these types of ‘quips’ "
I will hold my hands up to getting this completely wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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According to migration watch, Metro, and of course the DailyFail. They also appear to allow a charity that campaigns to bring migrants in to the secure area where our government processes them. Nothing will stop it as it's pretty clear powerful people want to this to continue for their own reasons. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? shoot the twats how dare they refuse.
Ah right, just like the nazis did with the Jews? How many would you kill? Would you shoot the women and children last? as many as it took yes woman and children why wouldn't I there all illegal no difference between them.
I see, would you shoot them on the beach or take them to special camps to be shot? "
leave them where they fell for others to see and keeps the seagulls of are ice creams. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused?
He.. He refused
Ah yes, thanks for correcting my error whilst ignoring the poster who suggested shooting ‘him’
I read the shooting him as more of a quip, didn't you?
Who knows? It isn’t the first time he has made these types of ‘quips’
I will hold my hands up to getting this completely wrong."
Don’t worry, he has previous, I feel really sorry for him, poor fella  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? shoot the twats how dare they refuse.
Ah right, just like the nazis did with the Jews? How many would you kill? Would you shoot the women and children last? as many as it took yes woman and children why wouldn't I there all illegal no difference between them.
I see, would you shoot them on the beach or take them to special camps to be shot? leave them where they fell for others to see and keeps the seagulls of are ice creams."
Ah right, would you be willing to do the shooting? Not sure you would get the police or the army to do it as it’s illegal |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"We are told that when these people get in the dinghies, they get rid of all ID, documents, mobile phones. They arrive with nothing.
Is this right?
If I rocked up on a French beach with nothing I wouldn’t last very long. What would / could I do? I have a friend that lives in the south of France but would have no way of contacting him. "
Why do they do this? I am guessing they destroy ID as it may show their home is not a risk but why destroy their phones |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why do they do this? I am guessing they destroy ID as it may show their home is not a risk but why destroy their phones"
Most cellphones track movement these days. Pretty hard to say you came from X country when your phone shows you being in another country. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Why do they do this? I am guessing they destroy ID as it may show their home is not a risk but why destroy their phones
Most cellphones track movement these days. Pretty hard to say you came from X country when your phone shows you being in another country."
Ok that makes sense. It seem odd to through a phone overboard but I see why they do it if they are making false claims. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why do they do this? I am guessing they destroy ID as it may show their home is not a risk but why destroy their phones
Most cellphones track movement these days. Pretty hard to say you came from X country when your phone shows you being in another country.
Ok that makes sense. It seem odd to through a phone overboard but I see why they do it if they are making false claims. "
phones is likely to hide evidence of trafficking.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are some deeply deeply unpleasant people on these forums.
Whenever I read the politics forum it makes me despair for the state of our society.
I can only hope its not representative of the wider membership of the website, and its only really the rabid right wingers and racists who predominantly get attracted here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Given destroying documents is illegal, and there have only been a handful of prosecutions, I suspect the claim is more a belief ATM than a verifiable fact. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Why do they do this? I am guessing they destroy ID as it may show their home is not a risk but why destroy their phones
Most cellphones track movement these days. Pretty hard to say you came from X country when your phone shows you being in another country.
Ok that makes sense. It seem odd to through a phone overboard but I see why they do it if they are making false claims. phones is likely to hide evidence of trafficking.
"
Yep another good reason to Chuck them in the sea |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Given destroying documents is illegal ...
Is it?
Under which law?"
s2 of the asylum and immigration (treqtment of claimants) act 2004
A labour/Blair law
(Apparently) |
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"Given destroying documents is illegal ..."
"Is it?"
"Under which law?"
"s2 of the asylum and immigration (treqtment of claimants) act 2004
A labour/Blair law
(Apparently)"
Thanks. It's nice to find someone that's willing to back up their statements.
Section 2 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc. ) Act 2004 makes it an offence to attend an asylum interview without being in possession of valid travel documents. This means that the actual destruction of the documents isn't an offence, but claiming asylum without them is an offence.
However s2(4)c provides a defence of having "a reasonable excuse for not being in possession" of such documents, e.g. 'someone took them from me'. s2(4)e provides a further defence of not having had documents "at any stage since he set out on the journey".
So unless the CPS has video evidence of the person showing his ID to the camera, and then destroying it, they wouldn't be able to prosecute a case.
Seems like a bit of a pointless law to me. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Given destroying documents is illegal ...
Is it?
Under which law?
s2 of the asylum and immigration (treqtment of claimants) act 2004
A labour/Blair law
(Apparently)
Thanks. It's nice to find someone that's willing to back up their statements.
Section 2 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc. ) Act 2004 makes it an offence to attend an asylum interview without being in possession of valid travel documents. This means that the actual destruction of the documents isn't an offence, but claiming asylum without them is an offence.
However s2(4)c provides a defence of having "a reasonable excuse for not being in possession" of such documents, e.g. 'someone took them from me'. s2(4)e provides a further defence of not having had documents "at any stage since he set out on the journey".
So unless the CPS has video evidence of the person showing his ID to the camera, and then destroying it, they wouldn't be able to prosecute a case.
Seems like a bit of a pointless law to me."
Not entirely, if documentation was produced at any point on the migration route, it would be evidence documentation existed, as long as that documentation was recorded, such as a failed asylum request in another country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Given destroying documents is illegal ...
Is it?
Under which law?
s2 of the asylum and immigration (treqtment of claimants) act 2004
A labour/Blair law
(Apparently)
Thanks. It's nice to find someone that's willing to back up their statements.
Section 2 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc. ) Act 2004 makes it an offence to attend an asylum interview without being in possession of valid travel documents. This means that the actual destruction of the documents isn't an offence, but claiming asylum without them is an offence.
However s2(4)c provides a defence of having "a reasonable excuse for not being in possession" of such documents, e.g. 'someone took them from me'. s2(4)e provides a further defence of not having had documents "at any stage since he set out on the journey".
So unless the CPS has video evidence of the person showing his ID to the camera, and then destroying it, they wouldn't be able to prosecute a case.
Seems like a bit of a pointless law to me."
yeah, not am expert. Just what i found when doing some digging. Because there a difference between believong this is happening and there being evidence.
Its Also interesting in thinking about what is needed to establish a case without ID. How much of a story do you need ? I'd assume we can determine region in most cases .... I mean, it's not difficult to place someone within 50 miles on the UK by accent. So it must be their individual story. |
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"Section 2 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc. ) Act 2004 makes it an offence to attend an asylum interview without being in possession of valid travel documents. This means that the actual destruction of the documents isn't an offence, but claiming asylum without them is an offence.
However s2(4)c provides a defence of having "a reasonable excuse for not being in possession" of such documents, e.g. 'someone took them from me'. s2(4)e provides a further defence of not having had documents "at any stage since he set out on the journey".
So unless the CPS has video evidence of the person showing his ID to the camera, and then destroying it, they wouldn't be able to prosecute a case.
Seems like a bit of a pointless law to me."
"Not entirely, if documentation was produced at any point on the migration route, it would be evidence documentation existed, as long as that documentation was recorded, such as a failed asylum request in another country."
I think the law is aimed at those people that destroy their documents so that they can claim to be someone else. If they are giving false details, we wouldn't be able to find evidence of them going through another country. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Section 2 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc. ) Act 2004 makes it an offence to attend an asylum interview without being in possession of valid travel documents. This means that the actual destruction of the documents isn't an offence, but claiming asylum without them is an offence.
However s2(4)c provides a defence of having "a reasonable excuse for not being in possession" of such documents, e.g. 'someone took them from me'. s2(4)e provides a further defence of not having had documents "at any stage since he set out on the journey".
So unless the CPS has video evidence of the person showing his ID to the camera, and then destroying it, they wouldn't be able to prosecute a case.
Seems like a bit of a pointless law to me.
Not entirely, if documentation was produced at any point on the migration route, it would be evidence documentation existed, as long as that documentation was recorded, such as a failed asylum request in another country.
I think the law is aimed at those people that destroy their documents so that they can claim to be someone else. If they are giving false details, we wouldn't be able to find evidence of them going through another country."
I understand that which is why the law exists to deter the destruction of documentation. However, with face recognition it should be very easy to find a person who has been processed elsewhere?
It breaks down if no attempt has been made for asylum and no checkpoints recorded or passed. |
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"Because there a difference between believing this is happening and there being evidence."
I've seen a video of a boat full of people, where you can see them dropping passport-sized objects overboard as their rescue vessel approaches. It's nowhere near enough evidence to support a prosecution, but it's very suspicious.
Of course seeing a single video of 2 dozen people does not mean that it happens all the time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because there a difference between believing this is happening and there being evidence.
I've seen a video of a boat full of people, where you can see them dropping passport-sized objects overboard as their rescue vessel approaches. It's nowhere near enough evidence to support a prosecution, but it's very suspicious.
Of course seeing a single video of 2 dozen people does not mean that it happens all the time."
I accept that it probably doea happen on occasions. I'd imagine that phones are very likely destroyed as they probably have evidence of trafficking.
I'd also imagine some used to do it to avoid being caught by Dublin rules. Not that they need to worry.
However I would need some more evidence to believe everyone is doing it because many applications are false.
If that is the case, and ppl are getting thru asylum when they shouldn't, at what point do we look at our processes? I'd love to know the stories people feel the "boat people" are making up versus their actual background. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused? shoot the twats how dare they refuse.
Ah right, just like the nazis did with the Jews? How many would you kill? Would you shoot the women and children last? as many as it took yes woman and children why wouldn't I there all illegal no difference between them.
I see, would you shoot them on the beach or take them to special camps to be shot? leave them where they fell for others to see and keeps the seagulls of are ice creams.
Ah right, would you be willing to do the shooting? Not sure you would get the police or the army to do it as it’s illegal "
yeah definitely they could pay us or I'd do it for free if they supplied the ammunition. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you rocked up you'd probably be arrested having no documents have to prove who you are me personally I'd just send you back to the shore and tell you to swim back and fetch them.
And if they refused?
He.. He refused
Ah yes, thanks for correcting my error whilst ignoring the poster who suggested shooting ‘him’
I read the shooting him as more of a quip, didn't you?
Who knows? It isn’t the first time he has made these types of ‘quips’
I will hold my hands up to getting this completely wrong.
Don’t worry, he has previous, I feel really sorry for him, poor fella "
told you before don't feel sorry for me unlike you I have loads of friends poor thing  |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Because there a difference between believing this is happening and there being evidence.
I've seen a video of a boat full of people, where you can see them dropping passport-sized objects overboard as their rescue vessel approaches. It's nowhere near enough evidence to support a prosecution, but it's very suspicious.
Of course seeing a single video of 2 dozen people does not mean that it happens all the time."
The video I saw a guy in the dingy was using the phone and then just threw it into the sea as the coast guard approached. Like you I do not claim everyone does it but clearly it is being done |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because there a difference between believing this is happening and there being evidence.
I've seen a video of a boat full of people, where you can see them dropping passport-sized objects overboard as their rescue vessel approaches. It's nowhere near enough evidence to support a prosecution, but it's very suspicious.
Of course seeing a single video of 2 dozen people does not mean that it happens all the time.
The video I saw a guy in the dingy was using the phone and then just threw it into the sea as the coast guard approached. Like you I do not claim everyone does it but clearly it is being done"
did you see him throw a passport too?
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Because there a difference between believing this is happening and there being evidence.
I've seen a video of a boat full of people, where you can see them dropping passport-sized objects overboard as their rescue vessel approaches. It's nowhere near enough evidence to support a prosecution, but it's very suspicious.
Of course seeing a single video of 2 dozen people does not mean that it happens all the time.
The video I saw a guy in the dingy was using the phone and then just threw it into the sea as the coast guard approached. Like you I do not claim everyone does it but clearly it is being donedid you see him throw a passport too?
"
On the clip I saw, it was just the phone right after he used it. They may not have shown it all so can't confirm about his passport or if he was in possession of one at the time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because there a difference between believing this is happening and there being evidence.
I've seen a video of a boat full of people, where you can see them dropping passport-sized objects overboard as their rescue vessel approaches. It's nowhere near enough evidence to support a prosecution, but it's very suspicious.
Of course seeing a single video of 2 dozen people does not mean that it happens all the time.
The video I saw a guy in the dingy was using the phone and then just threw it into the sea as the coast guard approached. Like you I do not claim everyone does it but clearly it is being donedid you see him throw a passport too?
On the clip I saw, it was just the phone right after he used it. They may not have shown it all so can't confirm about his passport or if he was in possession of one at the time."
Definitely buy them having to throw their buners. |
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