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New Strike Action Law
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New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
"
I can’t see how this will work, where are they going to get these trained agency staff |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations."
I'm not convinced that would undermine the strike or give an employer any benefits.
So many hoops to jump through, training, H&S, onboarding etc. By the time they have gone through all that, the strike would need to be in week 4.
In fact thinking about it, if the strikers allowed the business to go through all the recruitment, training etc and then called off the strike, money and time down the drain. It might be used as a (cough) negotiation tool. |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
"
How will you know it's an agency worker? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A sensible adjustment which will allow the continuation of vital services and keep the country operating.
Less misery for the masses.
Definitely a vote winner  "
It won’t work, just like the botched Rwanda plan |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?"
Because the normal drivers will be on strike  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations.
I'm not convinced that would undermine the strike or give an employer any benefits.
So many hoops to jump through, training, H&S, onboarding etc. By the time they have gone through all that, the strike would need to be in week 4.
In fact thinking about it, if the strikers allowed the business to go through all the recruitment, training etc and then called off the strike, money and time down the drain. It might be used as a (cough) negotiation tool."
That is what I was thinking, it is pointless |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike "
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line."
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ? "
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!"
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike "
Johnson's got all the outfits already. We've seen as much on his jolly jaunts. He can just hand em out when they're needed. As for training, who needs that? What's the worst that can happen? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike
Johnson's got all the outfits already. We've seen as much on his jolly jaunts. He can just hand em out when they're needed. As for training, who needs that? What's the worst that can happen? "
Yeah, fuck training, let’s get someone of the street on minimum wage to drive the trains |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike
Johnson's got all the outfits already. We've seen as much on his jolly jaunts. He can just hand em out when they're needed. As for training, who needs that? What's the worst that can happen?
Yeah, fuck training, let’s get someone of the street on minimum wage to drive the trains "
That's the spirit. We can do the same for the barristers. It's not like that needs any extensive training either. And if nurses + doctors strike too, we can just stuff some chancers into white outfits. Looking the part is half the battle. (Just ignore any pesky dying that might happen.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike
Johnson's got all the outfits already. We've seen as much on his jolly jaunts. He can just hand em out when they're needed. As for training, who needs that? What's the worst that can happen?
Yeah, fuck training, let’s get someone of the street on minimum wage to drive the trains
That's the spirit. We can do the same for the barristers. It's not like that needs any extensive training either. And if nurses + doctors strike too, we can just stuff some chancers into white outfits. Looking the part is half the battle. (Just ignore any pesky dying that might happen.)"
Exactly, we don’t need training or experience , that is for snowflakes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yeah because there are temp train drivers, fire fighters and signalling operatives all waiting in the wings.
Nasty but pointless law. "
And this was signed into law by the guy who I'm pretty sure recently condemned P&O for fire + rehire. |
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"Yeah because there are temp train drivers, fire fighters and signalling operatives all waiting in the wings.
Nasty but pointless law.
And this was signed into law by the guy who I'm pretty sure recently condemned P&O for fire + rehire."
I wouldn't say it was pointless, it will impact more than a few unions where they might actually be able to find temp workers.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah because there are temp train drivers, fire fighters and signalling operatives all waiting in the wings.
Nasty but pointless law.
And this was signed into law by the guy who I'm pretty sure recently condemned P&O for fire + rehire.
I wouldn't say it was pointless, it will impact more than a few unions where they might actually be able to find temp workers.
"
Oh it'll fuck some people over. For other sectors - eg medical - the new law feels meaningless + unenforcable. But more importantly, the new law will appeal to the likes of the Mail/Express and their readers. |
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"Yeah because there are temp train drivers, fire fighters and signalling operatives all waiting in the wings.
Nasty but pointless law.
And this was signed into law by the guy who I'm pretty sure recently condemned P&O for fire + rehire.
I wouldn't say it was pointless, it will impact more than a few unions where they might actually be able to find temp workers.
"
As always it will hit the people lower down. |
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"A sensible adjustment which will allow the continuation of vital services and keep the country operating.
Less misery for the masses.
Definitely a vote winner "
I agree with this. People here consistently vote against their own interests. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
Can you imagine the repercussions if there is an accident with agency workers at the helm. Like others I don't know where you find such people but there is many sectors that use agencies so maybe it's possible. Perhaps they will issue loads of visas for foreign trained people but I doubt it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Look at what PO did before this law was in place....Companies will do pretty much whatever is best for them regardless of the law. If they think the cost savings are higher than potential fines then they'll just do what is best for them. |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ? "
Could be someone who has left full time work as a train driver, to work part time as a train driver through an agency. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Can you imagine the repercussions if there is an accident with agency workers at the helm. Like others I don't know where you find such people but there is many sectors that use agencies so maybe it's possible. Perhaps they will issue loads of visas for foreign trained people but I doubt it"
Foreign workers? After Brexit? Controversial  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
Could be someone who has left full time work as a train driver, to work part time as a train driver through an agency."
There are over 21,000 train drivers in a union , you are going to need a lot , it will be never work |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
"
. However many workers did very well as a result of being made redundant by P & O .The average pay out was in the region of 45 k so I do not see too many complaining. Only one worker out of 8000 decided to take legal action.
People tend to forget how generous some redundancy packages are. I have worked on some aspects of various redundancy schemes and did not see many complaints.
Quite often redundancy is the opportunity to bank tax free cash and obtain a better job |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
. However many workers did very well as a result of being made redundant by P & O .The average pay out was in the region of 45 k so I do not see too many complaining. Only one worker out of 8000 decided to take legal action.
People tend to forget how generous some redundancy packages are. I have worked on some aspects of various redundancy schemes and did not see many complaints.
Quite often redundancy is the opportunity to bank tax free cash and obtain a better job "
Lol
Hurray for mass redundancies.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
. However many workers did very well as a result of being made redundant by P & O .The average pay out was in the region of 45 k so I do not see too many complaining. Only one worker out of 8000 decided to take legal action.
People tend to forget how generous some redundancy packages are. I have worked on some aspects of various redundancy schemes and did not see many complaints.
Quite often redundancy is the opportunity to bank
tax free cash and obtain a better job "
Why did the government cut ties with P & O then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
. However many workers did very well as a result of being made redundant by P & O .The average pay out was in the region of 45 k so I do not see too many complaining. Only one worker out of 8000 decided to take legal action.
People tend to forget how generous some redundancy packages are. I have worked on some aspects of various redundancy schemes and did not see many complaints.
Quite often redundancy is the opportunity to bank tax free cash and obtain a better job "
A Home Office spokesperson said: “In response to P&O Ferries’ unacceptable behaviour, Border Force has terminated its agreement with P&O to provide contingency travel services to juxtaposed ports with immediate effect.” |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
. However many workers did very well as a result of being made redundant by P & O .The average pay out was in the region of 45 k so I do not see too many complaining. Only one worker out of 8000 decided to take legal action.
People tend to forget how generous some redundancy packages are. I have worked on some aspects of various redundancy schemes and did not see many complaints.
Quite often redundancy is the opportunity to bank tax free cash and obtain a better job
Lol
Hurray for mass redundancies.
"
Any excuse to support the Tories! it's the HayWay |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
. However many workers did very well as a result of being made redundant by P & O .The average pay out was in the region of 45 k so I do not see too many complaining. Only one worker out of 8000 decided to take legal action.
People tend to forget how generous some redundancy packages are. I have worked on some aspects of various redundancy schemes and did not see many complaints.
Quite often redundancy is the opportunity to bank tax free cash and obtain a better job "
2 points:
1) You have made an assumption that people with valuable redundancy clauses, will strike. That wont happen and it doesn't.
2) P&O was not a strike, it was a mass sacking, with a pay off to limit damage. Taking away rights, with the lure of a payoff |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike
Johnson's got all the outfits already. We've seen as much on his jolly jaunts. He can just hand em out when they're needed. As for training, who needs that? What's the worst that can happen?
Yeah, fuck training, let’s get someone of the street on minimum wage to drive the trains "
which is basically what the rail unions have been telling you they want to do with guards .replace them with low paid minimally trained agency "revenue officers " all great untill something goes wrong .know who I would want looking after me and my safety in the event of an accident or incident a fully trained guard |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?"
Well if I know all the drivers are on strike who the fuck is driving?? The tea lady who’s always fancied a go?? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Yeah because there are temp train drivers, fire fighters and signalling operatives all waiting in the wings.
Nasty but pointless law.
And this was signed into law by the guy who I'm pretty sure recently condemned P&O for fire + rehire.
I wouldn't say it was pointless, it will impact more than a few unions where they might actually be able to find temp workers.
"
So “critical” skilled jobs they mention are actually fine and the one day training required type jobs such as a cleaner better watch out.
It is just spiteful law.
It really is farcical how right wing anti worker this government are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There needs to be an independent arbitration panel which needs to adjudicate on matters when there are disputes between employers and employees.
Totally independent of the government this panel will look at both sides of the argument and make judgements that would be adhered to by both sides.
We cannot keep always having the same problem over and over, where businesses are held at gunpoint by staff and staff are treated like waste.
These proceedings should be held in public so there is transparency, instead of being held privately so people can understand the reasons on decisions.
All it has been is one side accusing the other side of playing dirty. The public needs to know the truth! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Lovely isn’t it. For 000s of years the lower classes/workers/serfs etc had no rights at all. Then in the 20th century, for a time, there was a move to redress this, spurned on by revolution causing the nobility and super rich to regroup. 100(ish) years later and they are starting to undo all the progress made, crushing unions and power of collective bargaining or the withdrawal of labour, removing the right to protest (in any meaningful way), and coming soon further infringement of rights to privacy. And all positioned as though this is a benefit to everyone in society as it stops us being “inconvenienced”.
Singapore on Thames the dream of the wealthy brexiters. Low/no workers rights. Low/no consumer rights. Ability to ship in cheap labour from anywhere abroad. The gap between rich and poor to grow exponentially and return to the “good old days of feudalism”. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this."
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
I'm sure Johnson has a train driver's outfit somewhere in his voluminous dressing up box. He'd give it a go, especially since he'll have more free time soon. He can even say: choo choo!
They must have an army of agency staff are fully trained to be train drivers, post men, teachers, nurses etc etc all ready to step in when there is a strike
Johnson's got all the outfits already. We've seen as much on his jolly jaunts. He can just hand em out when they're needed. As for training, who needs that? What's the worst that can happen?
Yeah, fuck training, let’s get someone of the street on minimum wage to drive the trains which is basically what the rail unions have been telling you they want to do with guards .replace them with low paid minimally trained agency "revenue officers " all great untill something goes wrong .know who I would want looking after me and my safety in the event of an accident or incident a fully trained guard "
Exactly, this government can’t make up its mind, I thought they were striving for a high skill high wage economy, this is only possible if everyone is well paid |
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"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this.
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility."
IR35 isn't a problem. i was pointing out the irrefutable fact that agency wages are far far higher than cards-in. so the whinging and bitching by busines about labour costs being too high is clearly bollocks when they are prepared to pay higher wages just get their own way on something else entirely. |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Well if I know all the drivers are on strike who the fuck is driving?? The tea lady who’s always fancied a go?? "
As I said before, you have no way of knowing that all drivers are in the union. Plus if a driver is in a union he may decide not to go on strike. |
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"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ? "
So you agree it is possible that all drivers may not be in the union. Thanks for clearing that up.
As for training wtf are you asking me. I never mentioned anything about agency staff. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this.
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility.
IR35 isn't a problem. i was pointing out the irrefutable fact that agency wages are far far higher than cards-in. so the whinging and bitching by busines about labour costs being too high is clearly bollocks when they are prepared to pay higher wages just get their own way on something else entirely."
We may be talking cross purposes but I don’t agree re IR35 and full employment cost vs agency fees. It IS more expensive over prolonged periods to have full time staff vs agency workers. As I said you don’t only look at day rates and agency mark up, it is the cost of the whole package and the value of employment rights. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remember how the government screamed at P&O for bringing in cheaper labour and the crew were just sacked.
Welcome to the new order.
Don’t think I’ll bother getting on a train with an agency driver .
How will you know it's an agency worker?
Because the normal drivers will be on strike
Not all people are in unions so to assume they are is wrong.
Also people in unions do not have to go on strike, they may choose to go to work and cross the picket line.
The vast majority of train driver are in a union , can you explain how you get and train agency staff to drive a train ?
So you agree it is possible that all drivers may not be in the union. Thanks for clearing that up.
As for training wtf are you asking me. I never mentioned anything about agency staff."
You must have plenty of examples where train drivers are crossing the picket line then?  |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Can you imagine the repercussions if there is an accident with agency workers at the helm. Like others I don't know where you find such people but there is many sectors that use agencies so maybe it's possible. Perhaps they will issue loads of visas for foreign trained people but I doubt it
Foreign workers? After Brexit? Controversial "
It was a tongue in cheek comment but never say never. It would certainly cause a row if the authorities managed to ship in a load of trained people from abroad to do the work during the strikes. Not sure anyone would be that brave though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Can you imagine the repercussions if there is an accident with agency workers at the helm. Like others I don't know where you find such people but there is many sectors that use agencies so maybe it's possible. Perhaps they will issue loads of visas for foreign trained people but I doubt it
Foreign workers? After Brexit? Controversial
It was a tongue in cheek comment but never say never. It would certainly cause a row if the authorities managed to ship in a load of trained people from abroad to do the work during the strikes. Not sure anyone would be that brave though"
I can’t see any ‘foreign workers’ being interested unless they offered them silly money, I think we are going to see a lot of strikes in the next couple of years and agency staff won’t stop them |
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"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations."
This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers. |
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"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers. "
Maybe workers shouldn't be paid at all, just given basic food rationing and rudimentary accommodation for long shifts?
That'll drive down prices for rich people further.
|
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"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers.
Maybe workers shouldn't be paid at all, just given basic food rationing and rudimentary accommodation for long shifts?
That'll drive down prices for rich people further.
"
Sounds like a Tory policy! |
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"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers.
Maybe workers shouldn't be paid at all, just given basic food rationing and rudimentary accommodation for long shifts?
That'll drive down prices for rich people further.
"
. Who suggested that ? We are talking about workers who subject ordinary workers to intimidation and expect ordinary working people to pay more for the services which they provide |
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"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers.
Maybe workers shouldn't be paid at all, just given basic food rationing and rudimentary accommodation for long shifts?
That'll drive down prices for rich people further.
. Who suggested that ? We are talking about workers who subject ordinary workers to intimidation and expect ordinary working people to pay more for the services which they provide "
So your problem is it is the workers wanting more, not the owners? |
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"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers.
Maybe workers shouldn't be paid at all, just given basic food rationing and rudimentary accommodation for long shifts?
That'll drive down prices for rich people further.
. Who suggested that ? We are talking about workers who subject ordinary workers to intimidation and expect ordinary working people to pay more for the services which they provide "
I was poking fun at your suggestion that we should fuck over workers rights to benefit big business and rich folk.
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"New law in place to allow businesses to hire agency workers to plug staffing gaps caused by strike action
Quote from Business Secretary & MP for Spelthorne Kwasi Kwarteng:
"This was a criminal offence. Now it’s an option for business."
Another day, another Tory move to sell out the masses for the benefit of the corporations. This will be welcome news for most people. One person's pay rise is another person's price increase. Striking workers subjecting people to intimidation is hardly a desirable attitude. In any event it is impossible to be underpaid as you could simply leave your job and work elsewhere.
The reverse is not true. Train drivers are vastly overpaid yet still want an increase. They refuse to co operate or adapt practices such as camera technology which would make the railways safer When jobs for drivers are advertised the train companies are inundated with applicants .
If we train agency workers to drive trains full time staff can strike as often as they wish and we simply bring in agency drivers . The standard of the tests in the current recruitment process is probably far to high and needs to be reviewed.
The government should provide grants to employment agencies in order to train drivers .
It is difficult to see why ordinary working people should have to pay such high salaries to train drivers. "
There is a lot to pick through here.
I tend to agree, that people can find an alternative employer for better pay, but usually in high skilled roles, or roles that others don't want to do.
The majority of people on low incomes will be working in a capped wage market, making it very hard to make any gains on their income and at a time of rising inflation, they are now worse off than they were 12 months ago.
Train drivers are in a mid tier pay role, in my opinion, and your view of why are they paid so much, doesn't really have any merit, as you are basing it on the income alone.
You think the assessment for a train driver is too difficult? This is either trolling or a lack of awareness, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have a lack of awareness... Not everyone can be a train driver, the assessment is difficult for a reason, they want the best people for the job, after all people depend on them and expect to arrive at their destinations, safely.
Unlike the majority of jobs, train drivers are pretty much in a closed pool, with no real ability to work for other employers, this limits their ability to increase pay by working for an employer paying a higher salary.
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"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this.
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility."
Look at the other side of this, an agency worker can choose when they work. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this.
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility.
Look at the other side of this, an agency worker can choose when they work."
So if an agency worker wants to be a surgeon... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
What I like is the sheer stupidity of this government.
Once again they have proven they really don’t understand why people get pissed off when they don’t get paid properly.
Making laws to bust Unions? All you’ll do is turn those leaders of such movements into martyrs for many.
Instead of the government being petulant entitled brats, and proving they are on the sides of big business. Why don’t they act like grown-ups and actually talk, or they get voted out.
All this game of who has the largest testicles isn’t helping anyone, and we the consumer are frankly suffering for these arseholes psychodramas. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this.
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility.
Look at the other side of this, an agency worker can choose when they work."
Sounds good but when you are basically a zero hours commodity and have no idea when the next pay cheque is coming, you work when THEY want you to work.
Only the very highest paid have any real flexibility (eg. Senior IT contractors) and even then it takes both judicious financial planning and balls of steel to turn down work.
Employed Staff tend to criticise agency workers because they see the day rate they are earning but they rarely understand how that compares to the full cost of a comparable employee with rights and benefits. |
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"so private companies bitching and whinging that wages costs are too high are seeking to maximise profits by slashing wages .... but will then pay higher wage costs to agencies.
smells fishy this.
When it comes to “agency workers” you need to look beyond the headline costs.
IR35 is part of this process.
Create a new class of worker with little/no rights. No holiday pay. No sick pay. No employee pension with employer contributions. No maternity/paternity pay. No TUPE or redundancy pay offs etc etc.
With agency workers you can hire and fire at will with none of those non salary related overheads (the true cost of employing someone) and have complete flexibility.
IR35 isn't a problem. i was pointing out the irrefutable fact that agency wages are far far higher than cards-in. so the whinging and bitching by busines about labour costs being too high is clearly bollocks when they are prepared to pay higher wages just get their own way on something else entirely.
We may be talking cross purposes but I don’t agree re IR35 and full employment cost vs agency fees. It IS more expensive over prolonged periods to have full time staff vs agency workers. As I said you don’t only look at day rates and agency mark up, it is the cost of the whole package and the value of employment rights."
IR35 is only a problem for individuals masquerading as a company rather than being a person. it's of no consequence so long as the individual is a proper freelancer and their services are hired by several different clients in any tax year. |
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