FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Will the ‘red wall’ voters go back to them at the next election?
Will the ‘red wall’ voters go back to them at the next election?
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By *UNCHBOX OP Man
over a year ago
folkestone |
I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back? |
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?"
I think so, I think most those who went from labour to tory was over brexit.
Which has been shown to not be what the tories promised.
I don't see a strong argument for them staying on that basis.
But I cannot speak for that many people LOL |
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By *UNCHBOX OP Man
over a year ago
folkestone |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think so, I think most those who went from labour to tory was over brexit.
Which has been shown to not be what the tories promised.
I don't see a strong argument for them staying on that basis.
But I cannot speak for that many people LOL"
You make a good point about brexit. I worry that the next election will be like the 1992, where labour make big gains at by elections before the general election but come the actual election voters won’t go enough over to Labour. Last thing the country needs is another limp conservative government only hanging on for 5 years like Major’s because the electorate don’t fully trust or understand what labour has to offer.
I would im |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
I dont think most will go back to labour, saying that i dont think most will vote tory either, reakon a big lump of them just wont vote and some will vote for independents, and yea some will go back to labour and some will vote tory, but labour cant count on them all going back |
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I've spoken to a few red wall voters recently, and all of them seem to feel that Boris has been unfairly hounded out of office, saying things like "he had to go, but it's such a shame that the press ruined things for him". I'm even more surprised that many of these discussions were held with strangers in pubs, and no one came forward to put an opposing view.
Obviously I've not canvassed the whole of the North, but my small sample seems to indicate that the Tories may well hold on to the red wall seats. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Depends
Polls suggest SKS is way ahead of any Tory potential leaders.
But some may struggle to u turn as noone likes changing their mind.
And some have worked hard at a local level, and so have more plaudits than the ex lab MP who was seen as complacent.
Tbh, come the GE Boris will have been forgotten. brexit should be done ... And of not, thatay not be great for the Tories.
So it will be based on the next few years. |
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I think at some point they will wake one morning and realise they were completely taken in and misled by a serial liar that has no political psychology or moral compass. In short, a cunt that leaves a trail of destruction wherever he goes.
Johnson brought down three serving prime ministers - one of them being Johnson! |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?"
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do"
Tbh, they don’t need to, that can all be addressed during an election campaign |
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"Depends
Polls suggest SKS is way ahead of any Tory potential leaders.
But some may struggle to u turn as noone likes changing their mind.
And some have worked hard at a local level, and so have more plaudits than the ex lab MP who was seen as complacent.
Tbh, come the GE Boris will have been forgotten. brexit should be done ... And of not, thatay not be great for the Tories.
So it will be based on the next few years. "
Tories always do worse in the polls than they do on election day.
As soon as their well oiled, well funded propaganda machine cranks up, they will keep enough red wall seats to stay comfortablely in power.
Is my prediction. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Depends
Polls suggest SKS is way ahead of any Tory potential leaders.
But some may struggle to u turn as noone likes changing their mind.
And some have worked hard at a local level, and so have more plaudits than the ex lab MP who was seen as complacent.
Tbh, come the GE Boris will have been forgotten. brexit should be done ... And of not, thatay not be great for the Tories.
So it will be based on the next few years.
Tories always do worse in the polls than they do on election day.
As soon as their well oiled, well funded propaganda machine cranks up, they will keep enough red wall seats to stay comfortablely in power.
Is my prediction."
I think we have got that from your posts on forums. No need to read between the lines.
You must think if I keep repeating it, it won't come true. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do
Tbh, they don’t need to, that can all be addressed during an election campaign "
I guess they don't need to at any point but in my opinion they should be up front about these things. As the interviewer pointed out, they are calling for an election as soon as possible so why not be forthcoming with their vision now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do
Tbh, they don’t need to, that can all be addressed during an election campaign
I guess they don't need to at any point but in my opinion they should be up front about these things. As the interviewer pointed out, they are calling for an election as soon as possible so why not be forthcoming with their vision now"
Why now, when there is an election they will publish a manifesto and explain then, |
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do
Tbh, they don’t need to, that can all be addressed during an election campaign
I guess they don't need to at any point but in my opinion they should be up front about these things. As the interviewer pointed out, they are calling for an election as soon as possible so why not be forthcoming with their vision now"
Fully agree with you on this, I get so frustrated watching SKS doing interviews on TV and whenever he is pushed to explain labours view or direction on a subject he never pins his sail to the mast, as a labour voter I do wish they would lay down some foundations for what there government intends to do if they win a election. Just being moral and honest is not going to win it for them, I firmly believe it would help the party to win over some hesitant voters if there was some clarity on there part. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do
Tbh, they don’t need to, that can all be addressed during an election campaign
I guess they don't need to at any point but in my opinion they should be up front about these things. As the interviewer pointed out, they are calling for an election as soon as possible so why not be forthcoming with their vision now
Fully agree with you on this, I get so frustrated watching SKS doing interviews on TV and whenever he is pushed to explain labours view or direction on a subject he never pins his sail to the mast, as a labour voter I do wish they would lay down some foundations for what there government intends to do if they win a election. Just being moral and honest is not going to win it for them, I firmly believe it would help the party to win over some hesitant voters if there was some clarity on there part."
Tbh, I agree with that but it’s just part of the political game, it’s difficult to make any promises when things can change radically from now until the election or they could go down the Tory route and just tell lies |
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I can’t help wondering if the reason labour are playing their cards so close to their chest is that it gives nothing concrete for the Cons to attack them for while at the same time letting the Cons make absolute arses of themselves trying to find a coherent direction and leader! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can’t help wondering if the reason labour are playing their cards so close to their chest is that it gives nothing concrete for the Cons to attack them for while at the same time letting the Cons make absolute arses of themselves trying to find a coherent direction and leader!"
Good point, plus the Tories will probably try and pinch labours ideas, again |
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"I can’t help wondering if the reason labour are playing their cards so close to their chest is that it gives nothing concrete for the Cons to attack them for while at the same time letting the Cons make absolute arses of themselves trying to find a coherent direction and leader!
Good point, plus the Tories will probably try and pinch labours ideas, again "
Yes to that too  |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
I think SKS finally making his position on brexit clear will see the majority of red wall voters return to Labour. If he had not then some would worry about being taken back into the EU. Be helpful if they would be as clear on other things too. I watched the clip where they were asked if they would reverse the NI raise but refused to answer. The interviewer made a good point that Labour are calling for a GE very soon but won't say what they will do
Tbh, they don’t need to, that can all be addressed during an election campaign
I guess they don't need to at any point but in my opinion they should be up front about these things. As the interviewer pointed out, they are calling for an election as soon as possible so why not be forthcoming with their vision now
Why now, when there is an election they will publish a manifesto and explain then, "
Maybe it's just personal to me as someone that's been pushed away from the Tories but not pulled towards any opposition party and looking for reasons to vote for them. SKS says he wants an election ASAP so maybe needs to capture moving voters like myself. |
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" I get so frustrated watching SKS doing interviews on TV and whenever he is pushed to explain labours view or direction on a subject he never pins his sail to the mast, as a labour voter I do wish they would lay down some foundations for what there government intends to do if they win a election."
It's not just SKS and Labour though, is it ? Nearly all politicians do this.
To be honest, nearly all people do this as well in their day to day lives.
Happens in work, happens out of work.
I learnt very early on that nailing your colours to the mast essentially means nailing yourself to a position.
And positions change. The wind blowing one way can blow another in the blink of an eye. If you've nailed your colours to the mast, it's damn near impossible to change direction with any form of credibility or belief.
In essence, you are sacrificing yourself to inflexibility, leaving yourself no wiggle room. And life is all about having "wiggle room" and changing the narrative, because humans are opportunists. It's our greatest strength to adapt to changing circumstances.
I cannot think of any good reason why anyone would want to nail their colours to the mast on ANYTHING.
Always leave room for adaptability.
Conviction is, "Right folks, we go Over the Top at 12pm".
Survivability is, "Right folks. If their guns lull at 12pm, we go Over the Top, but if not, we hang back and reformulate our plans".
Conviction is rarely, if ever, a useful trait. Flexibility wins the day every time. Always keep them guessing.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?"
Yes, yes they will, they’ve got Brexit, they don’t need the tories no more. |
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
Yes, yes they will, they’ve got Brexit, they don’t need the tories no more."
They should be thinking about which party will be best places to mitigate the damage being done by brexit.
Would it be.
A. The Tories who are still cheering on Brexit despite reality, as if they're in some kind of alternative universe.
B. Someone else. |
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Brexit appears to have ruined the careers of 3 PMs so far.
I would imagine this is because it’s so horrifically toxic. Sadly it will continue to ruin many more careers country wide until somebody calls time on it.
Can someone pass me a beer and some popcorn while this blows over.
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It's a good question OP. A few different takes on it in this thread.
I do tend to lean towards the "it was mostly about Brexit", which, whether you support it or not, has been poorly delivered.
The whole "levelling up" agenda appears to have been nothing but marketing spin, and we are deep into a cost of living crisis.
You'd think, at the very least, therefore, the voters will stay away if not vote against the Torys.
As some of the wins were pretty thin majorities, that should be enough... |
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?"
no I don’t think he can sadly
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?"
It depends on the ability of the electorate to think a little more deeply than they have historically demonstrated that they are capable of doing.
If the electorate continue to favour personality over competence, slogans over policies and fear over optimism then the Conservatives will continue their gaslighting exercise in the absolute knowledge that their efforts will be successful.
Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality, her fake patriotism or her belief in parroting slogans and dividing her own nation.
Hopefully the British electorate can become a little more like the German electorate and start to look a little deeper.
All kinds of change might happen if there is a will to do it - and crikey do we need it. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?"
It is the job of every MP to win their seats, getting out there, being known and getting their message through to the undecided or wasn't going to bother to vote, types.
That is what can swing the vote, there are so many none voters and undecided that this is where victory can be gained and I think our MP's have forgot about this. |
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
It depends on the ability of the electorate to think a little more deeply than they have historically demonstrated that they are capable of doing.
If the electorate continue to favour personality over competence, slogans over policies and fear over optimism then the Conservatives will continue their gaslighting exercise in the absolute knowledge that their efforts will be successful.
Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality, her fake patriotism or her belief in parroting slogans and dividing her own nation.
Hopefully the British electorate can become a little more like the German electorate and start to look a little deeper.
All kinds of change might happen if there is a will to do it - and crikey do we need it."
kind of insulting to the British public |
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
It depends on the ability of the electorate to think a little more deeply than they have historically demonstrated that they are capable of doing.
If the electorate continue to favour personality over competence, slogans over policies and fear over optimism then the Conservatives will continue their gaslighting exercise in the absolute knowledge that their efforts will be successful.
Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality, her fake patriotism or her belief in parroting slogans and dividing her own nation.
Hopefully the British electorate can become a little more like the German electorate and start to look a little deeper.
All kinds of change might happen if there is a will to do it - and crikey do we need it.kind of insulting to the British public"
I got to agree with you there, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
It depends on the ability of the electorate to think a little more deeply than they have historically demonstrated that they are capable of doing.
If the electorate continue to favour personality over competence, slogans over policies and fear over optimism then the Conservatives will continue their gaslighting exercise in the absolute knowledge that their efforts will be successful.
Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality, her fake patriotism or her belief in parroting slogans and dividing her own nation.
Hopefully the British electorate can become a little more like the German electorate and start to look a little deeper.
All kinds of change might happen if there is a will to do it - and crikey do we need it.kind of insulting to the British public"
‘Some’ of the British public  |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I guess one thing the conservatives are good at is being very quick to get rid of leaders if they think they have served their purpose. Now Borris has gone, will Stamer be able to get the ‘red wall’ seats back?
It depends on the ability of the electorate to think a little more deeply than they have historically demonstrated that they are capable of doing.
If the electorate continue to favour personality over competence, slogans over policies and fear over optimism then the Conservatives will continue their gaslighting exercise in the absolute knowledge that their efforts will be successful.
Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality, her fake patriotism or her belief in parroting slogans and dividing her own nation.
Hopefully the British electorate can become a little more like the German electorate and start to look a little deeper.
All kinds of change might happen if there is a will to do it - and crikey do we need it.kind of insulting to the British public"
Which bit was wrong?
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" I get so frustrated watching SKS doing interviews on TV and whenever he is pushed to explain labours view or direction on a subject he never pins his sail to the mast, as a labour voter I do wish they would lay down some foundations for what there government intends to do if they win a election.
It's not just SKS and Labour though, is it ? Nearly all politicians do this.
To be honest, nearly all people do this as well in their day to day lives.
Happens in work, happens out of work.
I learnt very early on that nailing your colours to the mast essentially means nailing yourself to a position.
And positions change. The wind blowing one way can blow another in the blink of an eye. If you've nailed your colours to the mast, it's damn near impossible to change direction with any form of credibility or belief.
In essence, you are sacrificing yourself to inflexibility, leaving yourself no wiggle room. And life is all about having "wiggle room" and changing the narrative, because humans are opportunists. It's our greatest strength to adapt to changing circumstances.
I cannot think of any good reason why anyone would want to nail their colours to the mast on ANYTHING.
Always leave room for adaptability.
Conviction is, "Right folks, we go Over the Top at 12pm".
Survivability is, "Right folks. If their guns lull at 12pm, we go Over the Top, but if not, we hang back and reformulate our plans".
Conviction is rarely, if ever, a useful trait. Flexibility wins the day every time. Always keep them guessing.
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure. |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure."
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
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"Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality ..."
I suggest that you don't know any Germans.
Merkel's nickname in Germany is 'Mutti', which means 'Mummy'. People saw her as a strong leader who got things done by her persistence, not by fighting. They also felt that she had the country's best interests at heart, and would never do anything to harm them.
She got her votes entirely because of her personality, not her policies. |
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"Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality ...
I suggest that you don't know any Germans.
Merkel's nickname in Germany is 'Mutti', which means 'Mummy'. People saw her as a strong leader who got things done by her persistence, not by fighting. They also felt that she had the country's best interests at heart, and would never do anything to harm them.
She got her votes entirely because of her personality, not her policies."
So how come the Germans get long term professional politicians and we get celebrities like Boris and his merry band of fuckwits? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality ...
I suggest that you don't know any Germans.
Merkel's nickname in Germany is 'Mutti', which means 'Mummy'. People saw her as a strong leader who got things done by her persistence, not by fighting. They also felt that she had the country's best interests at heart, and would never do anything to harm them.
She got her votes entirely because of her personality, not her policies."
So they voted for competence? They felt that Merkel could do the job at hand?
Yet we voted for a circus clown based on three word slogans that were easy to understand?
Germans get competence, we get a never ending procession of personalities who look good and say the right things superficially. |
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"Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any modern democracy and not a single German voted for her because of her personality ...
I suggest that you don't know any Germans.
Merkel's nickname in Germany is 'Mutti', which means 'Mummy'. People saw her as a strong leader who got things done by her persistence, not by fighting. They also felt that she had the country's best interests at heart, and would never do anything to harm them.
She got her votes entirely because of her personality, not her policies.
So they voted for competence? They felt that Merkel could do the job at hand?
Yet we voted for a circus clown based on three word slogans that were easy to understand?
Germans get competence, we get a never ending procession of personalities who look good and say the right things superficially. "
not that long ago the Germans voted for a personality and we voted for competence what goes around comes around lol |
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Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
"
Brexit is done, apparently. The Tories can’t run any election campaign on Brexit anymore, if they do they are admitting that, in reality , it isn’t done |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
"
The same issues didn't seem to hamper the Tories. Unpalatable leader, and the vaguest of vague Brexit strategy. |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain."
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them."
SKS is a posh boy? |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them."
couldnt of said it any better mate sks won’t win back the red wall not in my opinion |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? "
he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour "
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? "
I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s not hard to understand really is it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it "
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? |
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"SKS is a posh boy? "
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'posh'.
As a barrister with a knighthood who used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions, the average working man is not going to have much in common with him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"SKS is a posh boy?
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'posh'.
As a barrister with a knighthood who used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions, the average working man is not going to have much in common with him."
True, is there any of the current leaders that will have anything in common with the average working man |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? "
no intention voting tory again no need now mate what is it about sks that floats your bout or is it just any labour leader after all you where like this with corbyn |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? no intention voting tory again no need now mate what is it about sks that floats your bout or is it just any labour leader after all you where like this with corbyn "
I voted Lib Dems in the last election, SKS isn’t great, but what I have learnt is all you need to be is better than your competitors to win an election |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? no intention voting tory again no need now mate what is it about sks that floats your bout or is it just any labour leader after all you where like this with corbyn
I voted Lib Dems in the last election, SKS isn’t great, but what I have learnt is all you need to be is better than your competitors to win an election "
a decent manifesto would help all labour do is attack Boris I’d rather see what there plans are specially for the north |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? no intention voting tory again no need now mate what is it about sks that floats your bout or is it just any labour leader after all you where like this with corbyn
I voted Lib Dems in the last election, SKS isn’t great, but what I have learnt is all you need to be is better than your competitors to win an election a decent manifesto would help all labour do is attack Boris I’d rather see what there plans are specially for the north "
They are not going to tell you their plans for the North, you wont vote for them if they did.
They have long memories |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? no intention voting tory again no need now mate what is it about sks that floats your bout or is it just any labour leader after all you where like this with corbyn
I voted Lib Dems in the last election, SKS isn’t great, but what I have learnt is all you need to be is better than your competitors to win an election a decent manifesto would help all labour do is attack Boris I’d rather see what there plans are specially for the north "
You will get a manifesto when they announce a general election, that has always been the way and what do you expect from SKS, just sit back and allow Boris to get away with everything , if it wasn’t for labour that slob wound still be PM. I have to admit though , now he is gone, labour need to show people what they stand for , if they don’t I can’t see them winning the next election. |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
"
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think. |
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"Put simply, the red wall seats fell because Labour had an unpalatable leader and couldn't work out a Brexit strategy.
Now arguably, their leader isless un palatable and Brexit isn't as much of an issue within mainland Britain.
It seems to me that the red wall fell because a lot of voters in the North supported Brexit, and Labour were being very non-committal about whether they would do it or not. I'm not convinced that they found Corbyn unpalatable.
Brexit is no longer an issue, but the Labour leader is now a posh-boy barrister with a knighthood, and they spend all their time making the Tories look bad instead of making themselves look good. They seem to think that every Tory vote denied will mean an extra vote for them. I suspect that we'll just see a lower turnout as people get disenchanted with the whole lot of them.
SKS is a posh boy? he’s posher than me and he’s a sir so it’s not looking too good for labour
You voted for Boris and he is very posh . Do you know why he got knighted ? I voted for brexit mate told you dozens of times if corbyn had vowed to carry out the will of the people I’d of voted labour it’s
not hard to understand really is it
Fair enough, so now Brexit is done you can’t vote labour because SKS is to posh? What if the Tory leader is posh as well? no intention voting tory again no need now mate what is it about sks that floats your bout or is it just any labour leader after all you where like this with corbyn
I voted Lib Dems in the last election, SKS isn’t great, but what I have learnt is all you need to be is better than your competitors to win an election a decent manifesto would help all labour do is attack Boris I’d rather see what there plans are specially for the north
They are not going to tell you their plans for the North, you wont vote for them if they did.
They have long memories "
they won’t stand a chance with out the red wall mate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think."
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls |
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By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"Kier Starmer isn't posh. His mum was a nurse and his dad a toolmaker in a factory. He earned the title Sir as recognition for his work, not his birth. "
Who’s factory did he work in? |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls "
the polls are a waste of time mate and money |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think."
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls the polls are a waste of time mate and money "
You just mentioned the polls ?? |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have "
and that’s what’s wrong attacking the opposition rather than laying out there plans so we can atleast have a clue |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls the polls are a waste of time mate and money
You just mentioned the polls ?? "
ya twat done me again how many’s that now lmao you did first lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls the polls are a waste of time mate and money
You just mentioned the polls ?? ya twat done me again how many’s that now lmao you did first lol"
Eh? I didn’t  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have and that’s what’s wrong attacking the opposition rather than laying out there plans so we can atleast have a clue "
The opposition is there to hold the current government to account, and due to the numerous scandals it had taken the focus away from policies and towards getting rid of Spaffer . When they call a general election you can read their manifesto |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls the polls are a waste of time mate and money
You just mentioned the polls ?? ya twat done me again how many’s that now lmao you did first lol
Eh? I didn’t "
aw well some twat did then lol |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls "
Oh I know they are ahead but considering everything that has gone on with the current government they really should be a lot further ahead than that don't you think, because I do, i don't feel as though they have made enough out of what are ideal circumstances to gain some serious momentum. |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have "
No am traditionally a Labour voter as I stated in the very first post I made. Never have voted Tory, couple of times the libs or I spoil my ballot paper, thats it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls
Oh I know they are ahead but considering everything that has gone on with the current government they really should be a lot further ahead than that don't you think, because I do, i don't feel as though they have made enough out of what are ideal circumstances to gain some serious momentum."
I agree, tbf, they were thrashed at the last election though , they need to up their game to get elected |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls
Oh I know they are ahead but considering everything that has gone on with the current government they really should be a lot further ahead than that don't you think, because I do, i don't feel as though they have made enough out of what are ideal circumstances to gain some serious momentum.
I agree, tbf, they were thrashed at the last election though , they need to up their game to get elected "
Couldn't agree more mate. |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
Labour are 7.3 % ahead of the Tory’s in the latest polls
Oh I know they are ahead but considering everything that has gone on with the current government they really should be a lot further ahead than that don't you think, because I do, i don't feel as though they have made enough out of what are ideal circumstances to gain some serious momentum.
I agree, tbf, they were thrashed at the last election though , they need to up their game to get elected
Couldn't agree more mate."
same here I hope they do tho |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have and that’s what’s wrong attacking the opposition rather than laying out there plans so we can atleast have a clue "
This has been my grudge too though they have finally made their position clear on brexit. I agree it's their job to hold the government to account but that's not their only job. They are supposed to be demonstrating that they are a government in waiting and showing an alternative route. So far they seem to be an opposition in waiting to be in opposition again. Hopefully with the calls for a snap election they may set out their stall. |
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"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have and that’s what’s wrong attacking the opposition rather than laying out there plans so we can atleast have a clue
This has been my grudge too though they have finally made their position clear on brexit. I agree it's their job to hold the government to account but that's not their only job. They are supposed to be demonstrating that they are a government in waiting and showing an alternative route. So far they seem to be an opposition in waiting to be in opposition again. Hopefully with the calls for a snap election they may set out their stall."
I'm in agreement.
I don't know if I hold much hope for anything too interesting in their manifesto. But we'll see. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"
I get what your saying completely but I fail to see how that helps with Labour trying to gain voters, do you normally vote for something or someone without having a clue what you would be voting for? I know I don't and wouldn't for sure.
By being honest with the electorate and saying "Our position on X is this at this moment in time, subject to review and other factors. It may change, it may not."
I've never read a manifesto and treated it as set in stone, like the ten commandments. That's unrealistic. It's just a list of things at that moment in time which said party are striving to achieve.
And as much as manifesto commitments can change, so can my feelings about them too. I could support something 100% one day, and upon receiving new information change my mind about it the next and oppose it 100%.
The electorate are free to change their minds. So are MP's.
Yes they are. I know manifestos change and need to change and adapt to circumstances as they arise, but as someone who runs a business I like to have a rough idea in which direction they as a political party are heading so I can prepare for changes that may effect me or my employees, and at the minute I have no clue what Labour intends so until I do they will not have my vote and by listening to other people and looking at the polling for Labour I am not alone in this train of thought. Its the one thing thats keeps coming out time and time again in polling and in interviews that people have no idea what Labours views on most subjects are, and this is clearly not helping with attracting floating voters to the party regardless of what you or I think.
So would you rather carry on voting for this bunch of shysters than vote Labour? Not sure that much of the population see it quite like that but you know….12 years of austerity, the highest government debt ever, and the highest tax rates for 40 years…. Seems to me that they would be hard pushed to make more of a bollocks of it than the Tories have and that’s what’s wrong attacking the opposition rather than laying out there plans so we can atleast have a clue
This has been my grudge too though they have finally made their position clear on brexit. I agree it's their job to hold the government to account but that's not their only job. They are supposed to be demonstrating that they are a government in waiting and showing an alternative route. So far they seem to be an opposition in waiting to be in opposition again. Hopefully with the calls for a snap election they may set out their stall.
I'm in agreement.
I don't know if I hold much hope for anything too interesting in their manifesto. But we'll see."
I think that getting ambulances to arrive in time to save someone’s life should be a bigger vote winner than woke wars and culture politics - but what do I know lol |
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"Kier Starmer isn't posh. His mum was a nurse and his dad a toolmaker in a factory. He earned the title Sir as recognition for his work, not his birth. "
I have no doubt that he comes from a humble background, and that he deserves his gong. But today he's an affluent, well educated legal professional, with 2 honours from the Queen (Queen's Councel, and Knight Commander of the order of the Bath). He's not exactly the sort of honest, hard-working, ale-quaffing man you'd meet in the local pub.
My point here is not that he's entitled and above us all (he's not), but that he doesn't give the appearance of knowing what life is like for working people. |
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"Kier Starmer isn't posh. His mum was a nurse and his dad a toolmaker in a factory. He earned the title Sir as recognition for his work, not his birth.
I have no doubt that he comes from a humble background, and that he deserves his gong. But today he's an affluent, well educated legal professional, with 2 honours from the Queen (Queen's Councel, and Knight Commander of the order of the Bath). He's not exactly the sort of honest, hard-working, ale-quaffing man you'd meet in the local pub.
My point here is not that he's entitled and above us all (he's not), but that he doesn't give the appearance of knowing what life is like for working people."
And there you have it….the inherent problem in English society….if you are working class and make a success of yourself but remain true to your roots, you are neither good enough to be a toff or you are a class traitor! Time to move on from these antiquated ideas imho |
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