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Party/leader loyalty
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
I can understand political party loyalty to some extent, though question that when policy starts to deviate from accepted norms for said party.
I can also understand people having very negatives views of other parties and their leaders, if they have policies that really do not align with your own world view.
But blind loyalty and an inability to criticise your party/leader of (normal) choice is plain bonkers.
If someone wears the right colour tie but are clearly shit at the job then surely the tie colour doesn’t/shouldn’t matter?
I am a centrist because I honestly believe compromise is good, provides checks and balances and that there are aspects of both socialism and capitalism that are good and bad meaning a hybrid is for the best overall.
My natural home should be the Lib Dems but they tend to be toothless and insipid.
An SKS led Labour being centre left should work but I find him a bit tricksy and hard to pin down (I want more decisiveness not political gamesmanship).
But the Johnson led Conservatives are proving to be an utter shambles and embarrassing. They are lurching from one crisis to the next and the smell of corruption is now an utter stench. How can ANYONE, even a true blue Tory, continue to support this utter shower? Indeed some on here will continue to defend him/them tooth and nail!
I find that bizarre! |
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I was brought up as a Tory and I voted for them until 2016. I can 100% say I now hate them with every fibre of my being, I won’t even meet up with a Tory supporter I feel that strongly.
I predict more resignations today, possibly at PMQs. How can anyone stand behind this man whist he tears apart the party and the country? There will be some that stay, the weak ones.
Seriously considering gambling today and betting on the new PM. It’s now a blood sport for me. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Voted Conservative since the 1980's, right through to 2017. Then my allegiances turned, when Boris and his gang, stabbed Mrs May in the back.
All they've done is surround themselves with largely incompetent sycophants, which have dragged this country down and down.
My vote isn't to be taken for granted. I voted in the last GE, but my cross didn't go in the blue box. |
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The Tories are not averse to chopping out the dead wood if it looks like affecting the whole tree, he's toast now and it's possible he will be gone even before the predicted take over in the 1922 Committee which will enable a new confidence vote..
There's probably more resignations today, the cabinet and backbenchers will be looking to their own futures after Boris.. |
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"The Tories are not averse to chopping out the dead wood if it looks like affecting the whole tree, he's toast now and it's possible he will be gone even before the predicted take over in the 1922 Committee which will enable a new confidence vote..
There's probably more resignations today, the cabinet and backbenchers will be looking to their own futures after Boris.."
I’d disagree with this statement. They havent chopped it off the dead wood and it’s destroyed the party. This has been going on for years under his leadership. It’s toxic. |
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"The Tories are not averse to chopping out the dead wood if it looks like affecting the whole tree, he's toast now and it's possible he will be gone even before the predicted take over in the 1922 Committee which will enable a new confidence vote..
There's probably more resignations today, the cabinet and backbenchers will be looking to their own futures after Boris..
I’d disagree with this statement. They havent chopped it off the dead wood and it’s destroyed the party. This has been going on for years under his leadership. It’s toxic. "
I meant in a historical sense rather than this current government and agree with your toxic comment, it's was probably entirely predictable given Boris's own previous behaviour but the party ignored that as he returned a massive majority, damaged labour in its core seats and was going to get brexit done..
A self serving egotist who cares not for the damage he causes to anything and anyone associated with him.. |
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By *essiCouple
over a year ago
suffolk |
"The Tories are not averse to chopping out the dead wood if it looks like affecting the whole tree, he's toast now and it's possible he will be gone even before the predicted take over in the 1922 Committee which will enable a new confidence vote..
There's probably more resignations today, the cabinet and backbenchers will be looking to their own futures after Boris..
I’d disagree with this statement. They havent chopped it off the dead wood and it’s destroyed the party. This has been going on for years under his leadership. It’s toxic.
I meant in a historical sense rather than this current government and agree with your toxic comment, it's was probably entirely predictable given Boris's own previous behaviour but the party ignored that as he returned a massive majority, damaged labour in its core seats and was going to get brexit done..
A self serving egotist who cares not for the damage he causes to anything and anyone associated with him.."
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
I agree with the main sentiment of the op.
I sit very central and will float my vote to whoever I see is prepared to serve the country and my needs best.
Our political parties have become impotent, far to interested in pleasing followers and media to have an opinion that resonates with the people. Having an opinion and beliefs that a leader believes in, drives belief in the leader.
I would love to vote for the Green party, but they have no real policies and I fear would crash and burn on day 1, same as the Lib Dems. Labour can't workout a strategy
yet they have a recipe that worked before with Blair, and could possibly repeat that to gain power. I think the country is crying out for a change, and I know people will jump on war crimes, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the energy he had that was used to propel the labour party into power, when the conservatives, like now are infighting and losing the confidence of the people. Having said that the labour party have lost their way so badly, it is reflected amongst the shadow cabinet, it needs a refresh.
Finally, I know we don't vote for a party but in a way we do, we are influenced by the party manifesto and promises. If we had a general election tomorrow, I'm not sure I could put an X against anyone. |
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"The Tories are not averse to chopping out the dead wood if it looks like affecting the whole tree, he's toast now and it's possible he will be gone even before the predicted take over in the 1922 Committee which will enable a new confidence vote..
There's probably more resignations today, the cabinet and backbenchers will be looking to their own futures after Boris..
I’d disagree with this statement. They havent chopped it off the dead wood and it’s destroyed the party. This has been going on for years under his leadership. It’s toxic. "
The Tories don't care how toxic he is to the country, but if he poses a threat to their party remaining in power. He's gone. |
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"I agree with the main sentiment of the op.
I sit very central and will float my vote to whoever I see is prepared to serve the country and my needs best.
Our political parties have become impotent, far to interested in pleasing followers and media to have an opinion that resonates with the people. Having an opinion and beliefs that a leader believes in, drives belief in the leader.
I would love to vote for the Green party, but they have no real policies and I fear would crash and burn on day 1, same as the Lib Dems. Labour can't workout a strategy
yet they have a recipe that worked before with Blair, and could possibly repeat that to gain power. I think the country is crying out for a change, and I know people will jump on war crimes, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the energy he had that was used to propel the labour party into power, when the conservatives, like now are infighting and losing the confidence of the people. Having said that the labour party have lost their way so badly, it is reflected amongst the shadow cabinet, it needs a refresh.
Finally, I know we don't vote for a party but in a way we do, we are influenced by the party manifesto and promises. If we had a general election tomorrow, I'm not sure I could put an X against anyone. "
just make sure you go to the polling booth and register your dissatisfaction by spoiling your ballot rather than taking the lazy option and not bothering at all. the preferable thing in this circumstance is to simply write NONE. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I agree with the main sentiment of the op.
I sit very central and will float my vote to whoever I see is prepared to serve the country and my needs best.
Our political parties have become impotent, far to interested in pleasing followers and media to have an opinion that resonates with the people. Having an opinion and beliefs that a leader believes in, drives belief in the leader.
I would love to vote for the Green party, but they have no real policies and I fear would crash and burn on day 1, same as the Lib Dems. Labour can't workout a strategy
yet they have a recipe that worked before with Blair, and could possibly repeat that to gain power. I think the country is crying out for a change, and I know people will jump on war crimes, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the energy he had that was used to propel the labour party into power, when the conservatives, like now are infighting and losing the confidence of the people. Having said that the labour party have lost their way so badly, it is reflected amongst the shadow cabinet, it needs a refresh.
Finally, I know we don't vote for a party but in a way we do, we are influenced by the party manifesto and promises. If we had a general election tomorrow, I'm not sure I could put an X against anyone.
just make sure you go to the polling booth and register your dissatisfaction by spoiling your ballot rather than taking the lazy option and not bothering at all. the preferable thing in this circumstance is to simply write NONE. "
That is a given, if I don't vote for an individual I want it recorded as spoilt |
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"I agree with the main sentiment of the op.
I sit very central and will float my vote to whoever I see is prepared to serve the country and my needs best.
Our political parties have become impotent, far to interested in pleasing followers and media to have an opinion that resonates with the people. Having an opinion and beliefs that a leader believes in, drives belief in the leader.
I would love to vote for the Green party, but they have no real policies and I fear would crash and burn on day 1, same as the Lib Dems. Labour can't workout a strategy
yet they have a recipe that worked before with Blair, and could possibly repeat that to gain power. I think the country is crying out for a change, and I know people will jump on war crimes, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the energy he had that was used to propel the labour party into power, when the conservatives, like now are infighting and losing the confidence of the people. Having said that the labour party have lost their way so badly, it is reflected amongst the shadow cabinet, it needs a refresh.
Finally, I know we don't vote for a party but in a way we do, we are influenced by the party manifesto and promises. If we had a general election tomorrow, I'm not sure I could put an X against anyone.
just make sure you go to the polling booth and register your dissatisfaction by spoiling your ballot rather than taking the lazy option and not bothering at all. the preferable thing in this circumstance is to simply write NONE.
That is a given, if I don't vote for an individual I want it recorded as spoilt "
the more people that write NONE, the greater the chance that the media will pick up on the level of dissent rather than it being disregarded with the usual insulting trope that some were too stupid to be able to put a cross in a box correctly. |
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"Voted Conservative since the 1980's, right through to 2017. Then my allegiances turned, when Boris and his gang, stabbed Mrs May in the back.
All they've done is surround themselves with largely incompetent sycophants, which have dragged this country down and down.
My vote isn't to be taken for granted. I voted in the last GE, but my cross didn't go in the blue box. "
What you have said is exactly the same feelings we have about Boris Johnson a waste of space and lies all the way. Brexit as been one big failure and ruined it for businesses and travel is so mucj more restricted now with freedom of movement. |
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Couple of thoughts and opinions based on what I have read through this thread.
Labour led by SKS is Centre-Right not Left, Corbyn's Labour was Centre left.
We don't have an actual Left wing Party in the Big three right now.
The Tory party of today is not the Tory party of old, much in the same way The US GOP is not the republican party of old, both have been taken over by Right and Far right zealots who excise anyone who do not agree with them.
Silence in a topic is complicity, and a spoilt vote, or not vote is Political Silence. And the height of privilege. People are dying and more and more are being driven into poverty by the Tories. To vote for anything other than the best chance of ousting them from office is in my opinion morally bankrupt.
[this has been an opinion] |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Couple of thoughts and opinions based on what I have read through this thread.
Labour led by SKS is Centre-Right not Left, Corbyn's Labour was Centre left.
We don't have an actual Left wing Party in the Big three right now.
The Tory party of today is not the Tory party of old, much in the same way The US GOP is not the republican party of old, both have been taken over by Right and Far right zealots who excise anyone who do not agree with them.
Silence in a topic is complicity, and a spoilt vote, or not vote is Political Silence. And the height of privilege. People are dying and more and more are being driven into poverty by the Tories. To vote for anything other than the best chance of ousting them from office is in my opinion morally bankrupt.
[this has been an opinion]"
It would be morally bankrupt to put a X next to a person or party that does not hold your own values.
You talk of privilege an awful lot and seem to distance yourself from privilege, do you feel you are not privileged? |
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"Couple of thoughts and opinions based on what I have read through this thread.
Labour led by SKS is Centre-Right not Left, Corbyn's Labour was Centre left.
We don't have an actual Left wing Party in the Big three right now.
The Tory party of today is not the Tory party of old, much in the same way The US GOP is not the republican party of old, both have been taken over by Right and Far right zealots who excise anyone who do not agree with them.
Silence in a topic is complicity, and a spoilt vote, or not vote is Political Silence. And the height of privilege. People are dying and more and more are being driven into poverty by the Tories. To vote for anything other than the best chance of ousting them from office is in my opinion morally bankrupt.
[this has been an opinion]
It would be morally bankrupt to put a X next to a person or party that does not hold your own values.
You talk of privilege an awful lot and seem to distance yourself from privilege, do you feel you are not privileged?"
As a white person I hold an incredible amount of privilege. Yes.
Because I recognise that privilege exists in me I can check my own actions, I do not always succeed, but I do a better job than those who deny it exists in the first place.
[this has been an opinion] |
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"It's by design, keep people divided while the wealthy (no, not the middle class, the REALLY wealthy) take us all for fools.
It's working too."
Reminds me of this meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQFHIea0Kvo
You can replace the guy on the left with many groups and the word describing them |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for! |
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"It's by design, keep people divided while the wealthy (no, not the middle class, the REALLY wealthy) take us all for fools.
It's working too."
Tried and tested since before the times when Rome ruled, there's no reason for them to change the status quo..
Although some revolutions have worked others have been a shambles and only the power holders changed.. |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Couple of thoughts and opinions based on what I have read through this thread.
Labour led by SKS is Centre-Right not Left, Corbyn's Labour was Centre left.
We don't have an actual Left wing Party in the Big three right now.
The Tory party of today is not the Tory party of old, much in the same way The US GOP is not the republican party of old, both have been taken over by Right and Far right zealots who excise anyone who do not agree with them.
Silence in a topic is complicity, and a spoilt vote, or not vote is Political Silence. And the height of privilege. People are dying and more and more are being driven into poverty by the Tories. To vote for anything other than the best chance of ousting them from office is in my opinion morally bankrupt.
[this has been an opinion]"
Interesting that you see SKS Labour as Centre-Right. How so?
I would not have classed Corbyn Labour as Centre Left but certainly Left. Not far Left though Momentum were trying to pull in that direction (pun intended). |
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"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!"
We are bystanders, gnashing on our frustration waiting to be allowed to engage in the myth that is the system we by and large deserve..
Tribalism as you've correctly pointed out, disengagement and a general malaise in all things political..
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"Couple of thoughts and opinions based on what I have read through this thread.
Labour led by SKS is Centre-Right not Left, Corbyn's Labour was Centre left.
We don't have an actual Left wing Party in the Big three right now.
The Tory party of today is not the Tory party of old, much in the same way The US GOP is not the republican party of old, both have been taken over by Right and Far right zealots who excise anyone who do not agree with them.
Silence in a topic is complicity, and a spoilt vote, or not vote is Political Silence. And the height of privilege. People are dying and more and more are being driven into poverty by the Tories. To vote for anything other than the best chance of ousting them from office is in my opinion morally bankrupt.
[this has been an opinion]
Interesting that you see SKS Labour as Centre-Right. How so?
I would not have classed Corbyn Labour as Centre Left but certainly Left. Not far Left though Momentum were trying to pull in that direction (pun intended)."
It is my belief that in UK politics our perception of the political spectrum is skewed because the right is much much more right than the left is left.
o the centre point between the two ends of the UK political spectrum is not the centre but rather on the borders between centre right and right.
So People see centre Right and centre as left when the policies do not follow.
I have a great graphic which shows this disparity but I cannot find an allowed site with it to link to. |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!
We are bystanders, gnashing on our frustration waiting to be allowed to engage in the myth that is the system we by and large deserve..
Tribalism as you've correctly pointed out, disengagement and a general malaise in all things political..
"
We Brits tend to moan a lot but actually do very little. We stir our tea a but more vigorously and post angrily on social media but not an awful lot else (me included).
But I am starting to wonder...remember the poll tax riots (I am just about old enough to  ) people finally had enough (interestingly after another prolonged period of Conservative govt) and it got nasty.
People are really suffering and this Govt are doing fuck all and not remotely trying to rein in the BoE who are making it worse.
Eventually the cost of living crisis will kick off.
I think they modelled this and knew it was coming.
It is one of the reasons behind the Policing and Crime bill and extra power to the police to stop protesting.
They were getting ready for the inevitable unrest.
OR we will just stir our tea a bit more! |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!"
Priti would make a fantastic PM and you know it  |
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By *irldn OP Couple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Couple of thoughts and opinions based on what I have read through this thread.
Labour led by SKS is Centre-Right not Left, Corbyn's Labour was Centre left.
We don't have an actual Left wing Party in the Big three right now.
The Tory party of today is not the Tory party of old, much in the same way The US GOP is not the republican party of old, both have been taken over by Right and Far right zealots who excise anyone who do not agree with them.
Silence in a topic is complicity, and a spoilt vote, or not vote is Political Silence. And the height of privilege. People are dying and more and more are being driven into poverty by the Tories. To vote for anything other than the best chance of ousting them from office is in my opinion morally bankrupt.
[this has been an opinion]
Interesting that you see SKS Labour as Centre-Right. How so?
I would not have classed Corbyn Labour as Centre Left but certainly Left. Not far Left though Momentum were trying to pull in that direction (pun intended).
It is my belief that in UK politics our perception of the political spectrum is skewed because the right is much much more right than the left is left.
o the centre point between the two ends of the UK political spectrum is not the centre but rather on the borders between centre right and right.
So People see centre Right and centre as left when the policies do not follow.
I have a great graphic which shows this disparity but I cannot find an allowed site with it to link to."
V interesting would like to see that. I recognise the spectrum can be skewed by normalisation of more extreme views.
Which of current Labour’s policies would you class as centre-right? |
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"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!
We are bystanders, gnashing on our frustration waiting to be allowed to engage in the myth that is the system we by and large deserve..
Tribalism as you've correctly pointed out, disengagement and a general malaise in all things political..
We Brits tend to moan a lot but actually do very little. We stir our tea a but more vigorously and post angrily on social media but not an awful lot else (me included).
But I am starting to wonder...remember the poll tax riots (I am just about old enough to ) people finally had enough (interestingly after another prolonged period of Conservative govt) and it got nasty.
People are really suffering and this Govt are doing fuck all and not remotely trying to rein in the BoE who are making it worse.
Eventually the cost of living crisis will kick off.
I think they modelled this and knew it was coming.
It is one of the reasons behind the Policing and Crime bill and extra power to the police to stop protesting.
They were getting ready for the inevitable unrest.
OR we will just stir our tea a bit more!"
Recall it well, there was real anger and more importantly a desire to get out there which since then hasn't been so evident but as you rightly say times are hard and going to get a lot worse and when people are desperate who knows how they will possibly react..
The safety net that was furlough is gone ..
I like it to the music scene, for years I was thinking where's the anger gone because that's one way of expression and it was all so bland and safe..
Then came idles and others and for me it was like, yes about time there's a voice in the ether for people to associate with..
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"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!
Priti would make a fantastic PM and you know it "
Listen if we're going down that route let's bust it and have Nadine..
Full on basket case.. |
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"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!
We are bystanders, gnashing on our frustration waiting to be allowed to engage in the myth that is the system we by and large deserve..
Tribalism as you've correctly pointed out, disengagement and a general malaise in all things political..
We Brits tend to moan a lot but actually do very little. We stir our tea a but more vigorously and post angrily on social media but not an awful lot else (me included).
But I am starting to wonder...remember the poll tax riots (I am just about old enough to ) people finally had enough (interestingly after another prolonged period of Conservative govt) and it got nasty.
People are really suffering and this Govt are doing fuck all and not remotely trying to rein in the BoE who are making it worse.
Eventually the cost of living crisis will kick off.
I think they modelled this and knew it was coming.
It is one of the reasons behind the Policing and Crime bill and extra power to the police to stop protesting.
They were getting ready for the inevitable unrest.
OR we will just stir our tea a bit more!"
john major did a similar thing after the torys managed to finally destroy the country and it's economy cullminating in black wednesday. his medievel brigand speech set out his introduction of the criminal justice bill. the bill introduced more laws in one single day than those on already on the statute books which had taken a thousand years to compile. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Boris Johnson was always the right wing Brexit Trojan Horse!
However, his usefulness is at an end.
It is who comes next that is the real worry!
You watch. They will be in control and authoritative and welcomed after this chaos.
Be careful what you wish for!
Priti would make a fantastic PM and you know it
Listen if we're going down that route let's bust it and have Nadine..
Full on basket case.."
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