FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Is UK farming sustainable?
Is UK farming sustainable?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
Listened to You and Yours, on Radio4, earlier today.
A lot of what I heard had me worried. I'm not a farmer, or in any way involved with food production.
So, those of you who know better - are current circumstances and a looming further hike in energy prices in danger of making farming in the UK economically unviable?
And, if it is at risk - what do we do about it?
Other than eating home grown produce, which many of us already do. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"are current circumstances and a looming further hike in energy prices in danger of making farming in the UK economically unviable?"
Yes, it seems likely.
"And, if it is at risk - what do we do about it?"
Buy food from elsewhere, somewhere where farming is still economically viable. Like we already do. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yes, far too much of our food producing land in this country is now in “environmental schemes” that are having a detrimental effect on food production.
All classes of food production in this country are down compared to 10 years ago when the countries population has rocketed.
The war in Ukraine has proven you cannot rely on getting basic foods from overseas.
All this and the increasing input costs (fuel, fertiliser, wages, feed) are making for a very worrying situation.
There will be a food shortage soon. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Listened to You and Yours, on Radio4, earlier today.
A lot of what I heard had me worried. I'm not a farmer, or in any way involved with food production.
So, those of you who know better - are current circumstances and a looming further hike in energy prices in danger of making farming in the UK economically unviable?
And, if it is at risk - what do we do about it?
Other than eating home grown produce, which many of us already do."
UK farmers are being squeezed every which way. All the red tape, extra costs, problems with seasons labour etc introduced by the B word. The rising fuel costs eat into any margin they had left.
It's grim for them right now.
Try to buy as local as possible, from a greengrocer instead of the supermarket. Small steps, but they help. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Yes, far too much of our food producing land in this country is now in “environmental schemes” that are having a detrimental effect on food production.
All classes of food production in this country are down compared to 10 years ago when the countries population has rocketed.
The war in Ukraine has proven you cannot rely on getting basic foods from overseas.
All this and the increasing input costs (fuel, fertiliser, wages, feed) are making for a very worrying situation.
There will be a food shortage soon."
There have been environmental schemes in British farms for decades. This is not causing any issues. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" There have been environmental schemes in British farms for decades. This is not causing any issues."
Are you having a laugh? Current greening measures insisting arable farmers take out crops that are used for food production, Higher level stewardship schemes that have just come in in the past few years reducing food production areas for wild flowers etc and the severe reduction of livestock in the upland areas in the past decade.
The environmental schemes farmers are now forced into are having a severe effect on food production. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
" There have been environmental schemes in British farms for decades. This is not causing any issues.
Are you having a laugh? Current greening measures insisting arable farmers take out crops that are used for food production, Higher level stewardship schemes that have just come in in the past few years reducing food production areas for wild flowers etc and the severe reduction of livestock in the upland areas in the past decade.
The environmental schemes farmers are now forced into are having a severe effect on food production."
It's not a new thing. We had Set a side for decades.
The amount of space used to grow crops is not the problem. The problems caused by increasing fuel prices, and the multitude of problems introduced by brexit are what's hurting British farms. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
the unwillingness of uk farmers to change they model from exporting perishable goods to the EU and shift to whats required for our domestic market is the problem. their stuborness is just emptying a full magazine into their foot. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"the unwillingness of uk farmers to change they model from exporting perishable goods to the EU and shift to whats required for our domestic market is the problem. their stuborness is just emptying a full magazine into their foot."
Many of them voted for brexit. What can you do. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"the unwillingness of uk farmers to change they model from exporting perishable goods to the EU and shift to whats required for our domestic market is the problem. their stuborness is just emptying a full magazine into their foot."
This is the problem. Farmers are slow to adopt change and new technology. They seem to think that they can just carry on forever doing what they've always done. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"UK farming is perfectly sustainable, people have grown food and livestock on this islands for hundreds of years."
I think you'll find it's thousands of years - and that times have changed.
Importing food is, obviously, an option - but it's likely to be increasingly expensive and it doesn't allow for security of supply.
The UK had an empire full of produce in WWII - but a few U-Boats meant that rationing and digging for victory were necessary.
As I said, times have changed and we're no longer on a war footing - no matter how much Ben Wallace tries to convince us otherwise.
Clearly, we can produce the food we need, it is technically and practically possible - the food we waste, alone, prove that's true.
However, if farming becomes financially impossible - do we subsidise it even further?
I say yes - because agriculture is one industry we definitely cannot allow to be outsourced entirely. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
it's time to end the freewheeling laissez faire agricultural model. brexit means that exports are not viable and while asparagus has been a profitable cash crop it's efficeincy rating is so low as to be useless in a domestic market. just for balance before the accusations of unfairly picking out asparagus, other inefficient cash crops abound. subsidies are no longer affordable. if agri-business owners can't operate efficiently then let those who can manage more effective models have a go.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"it's time to end the freewheeling laissez faire agricultural model. brexit means that exports are not viable and while asparagus has been a profitable cash crop it's efficeincy rating is so low as to be useless in a domestic market. just for balance before the accusations of unfairly picking out asparagus, other inefficient cash crops abound. subsidies are no longer affordable. if agri-business owners can't operate efficiently then let those who can manage more effective models have a go. "
But I thought the subsidies would be paid by the huge savings of leaving the EU ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I live in a farming area and farmers have told me they were not planting crops because of the cost of fertilizer and maintaining the crop. On top of that the fact that there is, thanks to Brexit and the poor value of the £, no one to harvest the food if they did. Look for a huge food price hike in October. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
Stopping using valuable farming land for Solar farms would also be a start.
Been to Cornwall recently?
What used to be fields of rich pasture of crops or livestock is now rows of ugly black panels.
I'm all for Solar but on commercial and domestic roofs, not blighting the landscape and denying good crop growing spaces.
Farming has not been economical viable in this country for years, this will be the final nail. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"If we leave the EU, we will immediately save £20 billion. UK farmers currently receive £2.5 billion from CAP so the UK will certainly have the resources to put in place a British Agricultural Policy. Not only could we financially support our farmers but we could also free them from the most costly European regulations."
Did that work out for farmers ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
""If we leave the EU, we will immediately save £20 billion. UK farmers currently receive £2.5 billion from CAP so the UK will certainly have the resources to put in place a British Agricultural Policy. Not only could we financially support our farmers but we could also free them from the most costly European regulations."
Did that work out for farmers ?"
Oh about as well as it did for the fishermen  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Stopping using valuable farming land for Solar farms would also be a start.
Been to Cornwall recently?
What used to be fields of rich pasture of crops or livestock is now rows of ugly black panels.
I'm all for Solar but on commercial and domestic roofs, not blighting the landscape and denying good crop growing spaces.
Farming has not been economical viable in this country for years, this will be the final nail."
We have the same problem here. One of the UK's largest solar farms is planned for prime agricultural land in Rutland/South West Lincolnshire. It may bring jobs but its not wanted.
Maybe Windsor Great Park, or Wentworth Golf Course or Ascot Race Course maybe more of a suitable location? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Stopping using valuable farming land for Solar farms would also be a start.
Been to Cornwall recently?
What used to be fields of rich pasture of crops or livestock is now rows of ugly black panels.
I'm all for Solar but on commercial and domestic roofs, not blighting the landscape and denying good crop growing spaces.
Farming has not been economical viable in this country for years, this will be the final nail.
We have the same problem here. One of the UK's largest solar farms is planned for prime agricultural land in Rutland/South West Lincolnshire. It may bring jobs but its not wanted.
Maybe Windsor Great Park, or Wentworth Golf Course or Ascot Race Course maybe more of a suitable location?"
i can assure you that it is wanted ... just not by a handful of nimbys in that particular area. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *appyPandaMan
over a year ago
Kilkenny, but Dublin is more fun |
Also can't forget that industrial farming is increasing soil degradation, destroying the important ecosystems underneath our feet that helps create a healthy environment to feed and grow the plants, which are now needing more and more fertilisers from overseas to get the same growth rates.
Unfortunately I think this absurd norm we humans have accepted in the last couple of decades has allowed us to grow to a level that won't be possible to feed as things start to crumble and deteriorate in the coming decades.
Sure we were looking at food shortages already before Ukraine due to plenty of places having huge rates of crop failures, but because most people simply buy their groceries from the supermarkets, they've become detached from the real world outside of this silly human fantasy world we've surrounded ourselves with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Also can't forget that industrial farming is increasing soil degradation, destroying the important ecosystems underneath our feet that helps create a healthy environment to feed and grow the plants, which are now needing more and more fertilisers from overseas to get the same growth rates.
Unfortunately I think this absurd norm we humans have accepted in the last couple of decades has allowed us to grow to a level that won't be possible to feed as things start to crumble and deteriorate in the coming decades.
Sure we were looking at food shortages already before Ukraine due to plenty of places having huge rates of crop failures, but because most people simply buy their groceries from the supermarkets, they've become detached from the real world outside of this silly human fantasy world we've surrounded ourselves with."
Have you been reading Guardian  . Where do you get the “more and more” fertiliser nonsense from. The notion that farmers can somehow treat land differently and maintain high yields to feed our population is fantasy not scientific reality. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
""If we leave the EU, we will immediately save £20 billion. UK farmers currently receive £2.5 billion from CAP so the UK will certainly have the resources to put in place a British Agricultural Policy. Not only could we financially support our farmers but we could also free them from the most costly European regulations."
Did that work out for farmers ?"
No. I said at the time it was bullsh1t, it is now proving to be so We have more regulations now and the support funds are being pulled out from under our feet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Stopping using valuable farming land for Solar farms would also be a start.
Been to Cornwall recently?
What used to be fields of rich pasture of crops or livestock is now rows of ugly black panels.
I'm all for Solar but on commercial and domestic roofs, not blighting the landscape and denying good crop growing spaces.
Farming has not been economical viable in this country for years, this will be the final nail."
That’s not entirely true. Some farming has been financially viable some of the time, but less has been financially viable without subsidies. 60% or so of farm accounts would show a loss without subsidy payments, payments that are being phased out over the next 5 years. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"Stopping using valuable farming land for Solar farms would also be a start.
Been to Cornwall recently?
What used to be fields of rich pasture of crops or livestock is now rows of ugly black panels.
I'm all for Solar but on commercial and domestic roofs, not blighting the landscape and denying good crop growing spaces.
Farming has not been economical viable in this country for years, this will be the final nail.
That’s not entirely true. Some farming has been financially viable some of the time, but less has been financially viable without subsidies. 60% or so of farm accounts would show a loss without subsidy payments, payments that are being phased out over the next 5 years. "
That's what I'm driving at. Do we need to subsidise UK agriculture to sustain it? Can it survive on its own, to adequately feed the nation - at a price even people on benefits can afford?
If it can't - subsidies or vulnerable imports? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
The farmer subsidies paid by the EU funds are slowly being paid by the government but are being reduced to eventually nothing in 2027. So a financial system which has been in place for decades is being dismantled in a couple of years. The pro Brexit government stated they would replace the eu subsidy. They lied surprisingly so the farmers have lost a great deal of financial stability to base their production on.
At the same time the government are signing free for all trade deals allowing cheap imports from around the world.
The subsidies helped to secure home grown food but more importantly the free for all on imports will drive many farms out of business .
You either want home grown food or you don’t.
Before anyone says the farmers should make it cheaper, they have much higher costs and standards to deal with.
Dangerous pesticides are banned here but not outside of the EU. Employment laws are equally lax.
I agree the EU agricultural budget needed reform as too many landowners ( not farmers really) made far to much easy money from tax payers.
That’s the governments fault not the farmers.
The government are suggesting up to £10k per acre for planting trees as an option. Great so what does the farmer who uses his land for crops do for thirty years after the first year only payment?
The only people who will be benefit from this greening idea are the huge 5000+ estates who have excess land which is not under crop use anyway to easily plant some trees and wait for them for grow. Guess who those people are and I can tell you they don’t worry about tax rates. It’s another nice little earner from their Tory mates who they back.
Fix the levels of subsidy on a sliding scale related to size of farm by all means I agree with that but just throwing them into a fight against cheap imports is bad news for us all.
Look what happened to our steel
Industry in the free for all markets. How did that work out on cheap imports?
A lot of farmers have moving to industrial crops for the financial stability of income.
Just further examples of incompetent government devoid of planning for our future.
Never mind that what about those dark people arriving on boats! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet. "
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards."
if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards.if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers "
I don’t know what job you do foxy but if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards.if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers
I don’t know what job you do foxy but if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage? "
eh next door ? And does your business get a subsidy a lot of these farmers a land rich why should they get it how about all businesses |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards.if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers
I don’t know what job you do foxy but if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage? eh next door ? And does your business get a subsidy a lot of these farmers a land rich why should they get it how about all businesses "
The subsidy is low wages now answer the question. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
Supermarkets that demand specific sizes and crops all year round are partly to blame. Farmers are tied in to supplying them and rely upon that income.
We should go back to buying local, in season, loose fruit and veg not wrapped in plastic and go to the butcher, fishmonger, and greengrocer. More people used to grow their own but new houses don’t have large enough gardens.
We have an abattoir locally so our meat has a low green footprint. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards.if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers
I don’t know what job you do foxy but if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage? eh next door ? And does your business get a subsidy a lot of these farmers a land rich why should they get it how about all businesses
The subsidy is low wages now answer the question. "
pmsl that’s me told |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards.if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers
I don’t know what job you do foxy but if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage? eh next door ? And does your business get a subsidy a lot of these farmers a land rich why should they get it how about all businesses
The subsidy is low wages now answer the question. pmsl that’s me told "
Good now behave or I’ll make you stand in the corner and you won’t have a story!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"it's high time the farming industry stopped colectively bludging off the state and stood on it's own two feet.
That’s fine. Do you mind if farmers blockade the ports so you can’t instead buy imports produced in countries with government subs, cheap land, cheap labour and with production methods that are illegal in the UK? How about you stand on your own two feet in an allotment and see if you can keep yourself fed . And your wish of subsidy free farming is what we are already transitioning towards.if they can’t stand on there own two feet they shouldn’t be farmers "
Is that right. Maybe you should try it... 60% of British farms would have made a loss every year in the last 5 years without subs. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"... if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage? "
I wouldn't like it at all. I might do what the farmers did and insist on the government giving me a subsidy to keep me competitive with you next door. I'd probably then keep claiming that subsidy for decades whilst telling everyone that I was helping the local economy by being open.
Until we got to where we are today where the government are saying that the subsidies will end in 5 years time. At that point I might reflect on several decades of subsidised work, and consider that I've had a good run and it's now time to retire. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"... if I set up a business next door to do your job and the labour I used was paid $20 a day to do it would you like to compete with them on that wage?
I wouldn't like it at all. I might do what the farmers did and insist on the government giving me a subsidy to keep me competitive with you next door. I'd probably then keep claiming that subsidy for decades whilst telling everyone that I was helping the local economy by being open.
Until we got to where we are today where the government are saying that the subsidies will end in 5 years time. At that point I might reflect on several decades of subsidised work, and consider that I've had a good run and it's now time to retire."
Or perhaps you would grow industrial crops or build solar farms as they earn more money. So the government will open the flood gates of food imports and make home grown food even more specialised and expensive.
Then the result even less food security along with cheap sub standard imports from the poorer parts of the world.
Are you aware the that the wonderful deal Liz truss negotiated with Australia is now being criticised by all party MPs as not offering protection for iconic geographic Indications on world famous foods such as welsh lamb and Irish cream or melton mowbray pork pies? Yes they can now feely sell this under false packaging. So yes they can label Australian products as U.K. iconic products.
The farm subsidies are out of kilter in regards to farm sizes and definitely needed reform that I do agree. . They were intended for the less efficient farms of Europe but the large operators here and now on the continent unfairly benefit at the expense of the small producers for who the subsidy was originally intended.
As I said bad government policy and we helped push through the EU rules. Now let me see when this happened where there a lot of farmers in parliament. Hmmm you can guess. Which party were they in? Yes correct again. Money to money and the poorer farmers get the abuse.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"Yes, if consumers were willing to pay the true price of food."
A lot of them are too poor to do so, these days.
Therein lies a problem. Farms need to be viable in order that they don't go out of business and people have enough food.
But if what they produce is too expensive for, say 10%, of the population; what do those people do?
I'm hoping that in a country as advanced as the UK, we don't expect them to just go hungry?
Although, some of our politicians don't seem to have a problem with that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
my farms are succeeding. our food produce is all sold in independent food co-ops local to the farms. we manage our woodland and water courses effectively promoting traditional skills. we don't bother with CAP or BPS as we don't need them. we initially used the payments when we first cleaned up the land we aquired 30 years ago to invest in a derelict olive press in greece. we now have 4 dotted around the helenic islands. we invested in a derelict cork processing farm in portugal. all of which are now run as co-operatives helping other local farmers to capitalise on their yields and bringing viable models to the villages where they are located. we have regenerated a couple of vineyards in castilla la mancha also co-operatively run at a local level. we don't export but sell within a small catchment area reducing transport costs. we run regular workshops developing low-tech, high-efficiency methods of agriculture. we utilise small scale hydro energy generation with no abstraction.
others can go and stamp their feet at the ports if they choose. we prefer to continue to run our farms successfully without government intervention. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"my farms are succeeding. our food produce is all sold in independent food co-ops local to the farms. we manage our woodland and water courses effectively promoting traditional skills. we don't bother with CAP or BPS as we don't need them. we initially used the payments when we first cleaned up the land we aquired 30 years ago to invest in a derelict olive press in greece. we now have 4 dotted around the helenic islands. we invested in a derelict cork processing farm in portugal. all of which are now run as co-operatives helping other local farmers to capitalise on their yields and bringing viable models to the villages where they are located. we have regenerated a couple of vineyards in castilla la mancha also co-operatively run at a local level. we don't export but sell within a small catchment area reducing transport costs. we run regular workshops developing low-tech, high-efficiency methods of agriculture. we utilise small scale hydro energy generation with no abstraction.
others can go and stamp their feet at the ports if they choose. we prefer to continue to run our farms successfully without government intervention. "
Sounds idyllic . Can’t see it working for the millions of people in towns and cities unless you’re proposing hundreds of thousands of cooperatives scattered around London selling low revenue products ?? Also do the food crops of sugar beet for refining work on such economics at £20- 30 a ton?
Boutique is great and good to behold. To feed the millions it’s not viable so what is the answer for that?
I think the government need to decide if they want food security or not. It’s that simple. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Listened to You and Yours, on Radio4, earlier today.
A lot of what I heard had me worried. I'm not a farmer, or in any way involved with food production.
So, those of you who know better - are current circumstances and a looming further hike in energy prices in danger of making farming in the UK economically unviable?
And, if it is at risk - what do we do about it?
Other than eating home grown produce, which many of us already do."
UK farm TV shows are sold all over the world. Even jezza f@@ks about on his tractor all day.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"my farms are succeeding. our food produce is all sold in independent food co-ops local to the farms. we manage our woodland and water courses effectively promoting traditional skills. we don't bother with CAP or BPS as we don't need them. we initially used the payments when we first cleaned up the land we aquired 30 years ago to invest in a derelict olive press in greece. we now have 4 dotted around the helenic islands. we invested in a derelict cork processing farm in portugal. all of which are now run as co-operatives helping other local farmers to capitalise on their yields and bringing viable models to the villages where they are located. we have regenerated a couple of vineyards in castilla la mancha also co-operatively run at a local level. we don't export but sell within a small catchment area reducing transport costs. we run regular workshops developing low-tech, high-efficiency methods of agriculture. we utilise small scale hydro energy generation with no abstraction.
others can go and stamp their feet at the ports if they choose. we prefer to continue to run our farms successfully without government intervention.
Sounds idyllic . Can’t see it working for the millions of people in towns and cities unless you’re proposing hundreds of thousands of cooperatives scattered around London selling low revenue products ?? Also do the food crops of sugar beet for refining work on such economics at £20- 30 a ton?
Boutique is great and good to behold. To feed the millions it’s not viable so what is the answer for that?
I think the government need to decide if they want food security or not. It’s that simple. "
there's nothing boutique about any of it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"my farms are succeeding. our food produce is all sold in independent food co-ops local to the farms. we manage our woodland and water courses effectively promoting traditional skills. we don't bother with CAP or BPS as we don't need them. we initially used the payments when we first cleaned up the land we aquired 30 years ago to invest in a derelict olive press in greece. we now have 4 dotted around the helenic islands. we invested in a derelict cork processing farm in portugal. all of which are now run as co-operatives helping other local farmers to capitalise on their yields and bringing viable models to the villages where they are located. we have regenerated a couple of vineyards in castilla la mancha also co-operatively run at a local level. we don't export but sell within a small catchment area reducing transport costs. we run regular workshops developing low-tech, high-efficiency methods of agriculture. we utilise small scale hydro energy generation with no abstraction.
others can go and stamp their feet at the ports if they choose. we prefer to continue to run our farms successfully without government intervention.
Sounds idyllic . Can’t see it working for the millions of people in towns and cities unless you’re proposing hundreds of thousands of cooperatives scattered around London selling low revenue products ?? Also do the food crops of sugar beet for refining work on such economics at £20- 30 a ton?
Boutique is great and good to behold. To feed the millions it’s not viable so what is the answer for that?
I think the government need to decide if they want food security or not. It’s that simple. "
Exactly. We're talking about feeding millions of people, here. The UK isn't "a small catchment area". Scale matters. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"my farms are succeeding. our food produce is all sold in independent food co-ops local to the farms. we manage our woodland and water courses effectively promoting traditional skills. we don't bother with CAP or BPS as we don't need them. we initially used the payments when we first cleaned up the land we aquired 30 years ago to invest in a derelict olive press in greece. we now have 4 dotted around the helenic islands. we invested in a derelict cork processing farm in portugal. all of which are now run as co-operatives helping other local farmers to capitalise on their yields and bringing viable models to the villages where they are located. we have regenerated a couple of vineyards in castilla la mancha also co-operatively run at a local level. we don't export but sell within a small catchment area reducing transport costs. we run regular workshops developing low-tech, high-efficiency methods of agriculture. we utilise small scale hydro energy generation with no abstraction.
others can go and stamp their feet at the ports if they choose. we prefer to continue to run our farms successfully without government intervention.
Sounds idyllic . Can’t see it working for the millions of people in towns and cities unless you’re proposing hundreds of thousands of cooperatives scattered around London selling low revenue products ?? Also do the food crops of sugar beet for refining work on such economics at £20- 30 a ton?
Boutique is great and good to behold. To feed the millions it’s not viable so what is the answer for that?
I think the government need to decide if they want food security or not. It’s that simple.
there's nothing boutique about any of it."
Perhaps not. Could people survive on what you sell, though? And how many?
The issue is, like it or not, food security.
Could your method of farming provide that for millions of people?
If it could - why isn't everyone doing it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Perhaps not. Could people survive on what you sell, though? And how many?
The issue is, like it or not, food security.
Could your method of farming provide that for millions of people?
If it could - why isn't everyone doing it?"
the produce is mainly seasonal arable and lots of it. as for why isn't everyone doing it? you'd have to ask the industrial ranch farmers who principally grow for export, which doesn't offer any food security. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Perhaps not. Could people survive on what you sell, though? And how many?
The issue is, like it or not, food security.
Could your method of farming provide that for millions of people?
If it could - why isn't everyone doing it?
the produce is mainly seasonal arable and lots of it. as for why isn't everyone doing it? you'd have to ask the industrial ranch farmers who principally grow for export, which doesn't offer any food security. "
You state you took money from the EU to help your start up regarding olive production but decline any further cash. You took the cash. I’m curious. Do you think without the EU subsidy olive oil prices including your own would be sustainable? Your operation benefits from the market pricing. It’s a bit like not being in the workers union but taking the pay rise when it comes. This could result in sky high prices I agree, but again is that positive for food security for the consumer?
I honestly don’t want to be critical of what you’re doing in any way as it sounds really good but for example wine is not going to offer any food security as it’s a lifestyle product. Also unless you’re of a big enough scale to attract the likes of Hillebrand to offer support logistically then you will also stay niche / local . Toledo has a lot of through traffic of wine so you will be aware of the pricing and volumes needed to export.
Growing seasonal crops is fine for local consumption but what do the locals eat if the farmers can’t grow anything that makes a profit?
Olive oil and wine can be stored. Cabbages can’t.
To scale up regionally and offer food all year would inevitably include large scale logistics and some of the international element, based purely on economy of scale. Or are you suggesting farmers should lose money and only grow what they can hopefully sell locally? Seems inefficient.
For the record 60% of what we eat in this country is grown in this country so the export ranch comment is a bit harsh.
You personally are in it for the profit or you wouldn’t do it. Unless you’re offering a charitable set up in which case I apologise.
Being in business you would change your model if you didn’t make money and if needed grow industrial crops or have things like wind farms or solar.
I don’t think you’re comparing apples with apples. Excuse the pun.
We can’t complain about food security and then in the same breath say we don’t want to pay for it.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *coptoCouple
over a year ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"If we leave the EU, we will immediately save £20 billion...”
I think we all agree that quote begins and ends as bullshit, our net contribution (the amount worked out by the formula equally applicable to ALL Member States, minus the “Thatcher Rebate” she simply refused to pay, minus CAP and Regional Fund grants, research grants and less easily calculable discounts) wasn’t even half that, the European Commission reckoned 8½ billion, our own Office of National Statistics quoted 9½ billion.
Back to the thread, food shortages and high prices will make it SOOOO much easier for the public to swallow the Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill to be introduced by the Government (“Legislation will unlock the potential of new technologies to promote sustainable and efficient farming and food production”).
Pun equally intended… |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"Perhaps not. Could people survive on what you sell, though? And how many?
The issue is, like it or not, food security.
Could your method of farming provide that for millions of people?
If it could - why isn't everyone doing it?
the produce is mainly seasonal arable and lots of it. as for why isn't everyone doing it? you'd have to ask the industrial ranch farmers who principally grow for export, which doesn't offer any food security. "
If you grow enough of anything for export, you're highly likely (unless it's very rare) to have enough for your own country - if the government is forced to make you sell it there. That is food security - even though it's not capitalism.
And you didn't answer the question - could your method feed the millions who live in the UK?
I'm not knocking the fact it does very well for you - I'm questioning the notion that it would work at the scale required to feed almost 70 million people.
I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know that it can't. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
