FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > SKS and the EU
SKS and the EU
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
Keir's going to make Brexit work. Well, good luck with that; doesn't seem an easy task, especially since he'll need to be elected PM first.
Clearly, he's made the calculation that he's prepared to sacrifice any small foothold Labour has in Scotland, in order to win back the 'Red Wall' seats in England.
It's a smart move, on a purely number crunching basis - but, whether he realises it or not, it's as much of a "fuck you" to Scotland as we already get from the Tories.
And all because England is the only part of the UK that doesn't have a parliament that is representative, in membership, of the votes cast.
FPTP is, eventually, going to undo the Union - because it's a fucking awful way to keep it together.
The majority of voters, in all four countries of the UK, are governed by people they didn't vote for, acting in their own interests - rather than that of the people.
That's what FPTP brings us - and Keir needs it just as much as any Tory.
And that's why he has to pretend to be one, to win a UK GE; just like Blair did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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He's walking a tightrope. He knows he can't just say Brexit is shit - even though it is - as that'll piss off many people who still won't admit they were conned into voting for a dud. So he can't campaign for us to rejoin.
Maybe he should use the more true slogan: let's try and make Brexit less shit. Or: it's turd polishing time. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
I haven’t heard the speech, just read about the highlights. I think he has just put a rod against his own back and enhanced the chances of the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP.
I get it that he is trying to break down the Brexit/Remain divide but the Brexit ship is already holed and taking on water. No politician should ever rule anything in, or rule anything out because they risk charges of hypocrisy in years to come when circumstances materially change.
Poor choice of words that I suspect he may regret when the Brexit ship starts listing heavily and the lifeboats get launched. And it seems fairly obvious from the current trajectory that this is going to happen sooner or later. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Brexit is costing the UK £100 billion a year in lost output according to government's own figures from OBR. The same as 11 years worth of EU membership each single year but with none of the benefits.
The UK is also behind all the other G7 nations with the post pandemic recovery.
Shitshow! |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
SKS’ strategy colleagues obviously think they know what they are doing. Personally (and what do I know) I think people see through and get tired of all the smoke and mirrors and have more respect for forthright straight talking and sticking to your guns.
If it was me (again what do I know AND I am bias when it comes to Brexit which is a shit idea and getting more shit everyday) I would do three things:
1) Be honest that Brexit is a failed project causing harm to the UK and that if there is no way to minimise the damage to an acceptable level then we would need to consider a different relationship with the EU (such as EEA or possibly even rejoin - though the terms would need careful consideration as we won’t get deal we had before).
2) Form a progressive alliance with LD & Greens.
3) Commit to a proper referendum on changing from FPTP to PR for UK elections. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Brexit is costing the UK £100 billion a year in lost output according to government's own figures from OBR. The same as 11 years worth of EU membership each single year but with none of the benefits.
The UK is also behind all the other G7 nations with the post pandemic recovery.
Shitshow!"
Yes but have you heard how Rees Mogg has been explaining this on various television shows?
He has been trashing the OBR as not fit for purpose and always wrong. When asked if it should therefore be closed down he said that it was a matter for the Chancellor as the OBR is appointed by the Treasury.
I wonder how Sunak will respond to this, or is it the beginning of a campaign to oust Sunak and blame recent failings on him? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Brexit is costing the UK £100 billion a year in lost output according to government's own figures from OBR. The same as 11 years worth of EU membership each single year but with none of the benefits.
The UK is also behind all the other G7 nations with the post pandemic recovery.
Shitshow!
Yes but have you heard how Rees Mogg has been explaining this on various television shows?
He has been trashing the OBR as not fit for purpose and always wrong. When asked if it should therefore be closed down he said that it was a matter for the Chancellor as the OBR is appointed by the Treasury.
I wonder how Sunak will respond to this, or is it the beginning of a campaign to oust Sunak and blame recent failings on him?"
Yep Reece-Smug embodies everything I cannot stand. He wheeled out the example of signage in the Dartford Tunnel being changed as a Brexit benefit even though we could have done that anyway! Then we challenged he says to people things like “I don’t think you understand” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Keir's going to make Brexit work. Well, good luck with that; doesn't seem an easy task, especially since he'll need to be elected PM first.
Clearly, he's made the calculation that he's prepared to sacrifice any small foothold Labour has in Scotland, in order to win back the 'Red Wall' seats in England.
It's a smart move, on a purely number crunching basis - but, whether he realises it or not, it's as much of a "fuck you" to Scotland as we already get from the Tories.
And all because England is the only part of the UK that doesn't have a parliament that is representative, in membership, of the votes cast.
FPTP is, eventually, going to undo the Union - because it's a fucking awful way to keep it together.
The majority of voters, in all four countries of the UK, are governed by people they didn't vote for, acting in their own interests - rather than that of the people.
That's what FPTP brings us - and Keir needs it just as much as any Tory.
And that's why he has to pretend to be one, to win a UK GE; just like Blair did."
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t, he knows the Tories will try and run the next election on Brexit (again). People are slowly realising that Brexit is a shit show but getting them to admit it is difficult, we won’t be joining the EU anytime soon so he can campaign on the fact that the Tories have completely fucked it up and labour can do better |
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SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted. |
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"He's walking a tightrope. He knows he can't just say Brexit is shit - even though it is - as that'll piss off many people who still won't admit they were conned into voting for a dud. So he can't campaign for us to rejoin.
Maybe he should use the more true slogan: let's try and make Brexit less shit. Or: it's turd polishing time."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted."
I don’t think he can make it work but it’s clever to pretend that he can whilst blaming the tories for this shit show. I think it’s to early to campaign to rejoin whilst the boomers are still alive |
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"SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted."
I don't think he thinks he can make it work. I think its a slogan specifically designed to highlight the Tories haven't made it work.
Not entirely convinced this is his best strategy. but I can see where it came from. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted.
I don't think he thinks he can make it work. I think its a slogan specifically designed to highlight the Tories haven't made it work.
Not entirely convinced this is his best strategy. but I can see where it came from."
Exactly, |
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"SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted.
I don't think he thinks he can make it work. I think its a slogan specifically designed to highlight the Tories haven't made it work.
Not entirely convinced this is his best strategy. but I can see where it came from.
Exactly, "
Fair enough.
I know honesty would ruin their chances, but it would be nice if he just said "yes, I know brexit is a clusterfuck, but we'll do our best to try to limit the damage." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted.
I don't think he thinks he can make it work. I think its a slogan specifically designed to highlight the Tories haven't made it work.
Not entirely convinced this is his best strategy. but I can see where it came from.
Exactly,
Fair enough.
I know honesty would ruin their chances, but it would be nice if he just said "yes, I know brexit is a clusterfuck, but we'll do our best to try to limit the damage.""
He can't say that. Too many people still won't admit Brexit is shit. They get angry when reality is pointed out to them, because they don't want to admit they were made fools of over Brexit. We see as much on here all the time. |
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"SKS is a moron if he thinks he can make brexit work for Britain and British people.
Brexit has served its purpose. The damage it's done to the UK, British people and to the economy are irrelevant to those who benefitted.
I don't think he thinks he can make it work. I think its a slogan specifically designed to highlight the Tories haven't made it work.
Not entirely convinced this is his best strategy. but I can see where it came from.
Exactly,
Fair enough.
I know honesty would ruin their chances, but it would be nice if he just said "yes, I know brexit is a clusterfuck, but we'll do our best to try to limit the damage.""
I mean if you squint your eyes just right and really focus... "Make Brexit Work", kind of says that...
[this post has been an opinion] |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris. |
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"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris."
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them. |
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They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris.
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them."
Ah, where dod you get Tory lite from?
I tend to disagree ref Blair, things did get better for a while. The mood of the nation was very positive, in my world it was. Interested to hear why you didn't feel the same way? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris."
Maybe Cummings will take on the job  |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
"
This post says a lot about the role the media plays in who governs the country. With this horrific level of misunderstanding about the whats going on in the world, what chance is there for any improvement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The trouble with the Labour party is they believe in fairness.
Unfortunately many labour voters only support fairnwss when they are are on the wrong end of the shitty stick.
In the UK they are the down trodden and hard done by. They benefit from "London's" taxes.
In the EU they are (relatively) better off and now see London's taxes as "our taxes".
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"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris.
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them.
Ah, where dod you get Tory lite from?
I tend to disagree ref Blair, things did get better for a while. The mood of the nation was very positive, in my world it was. Interested to hear why you didn't feel the same way? "
The mood was positive, but the policies weren't.
The things you described, closing the boarders and appealing to leave voters. That kind of right wing politics makes them no to little improvement over the Tories. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
"
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris.
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them.
Ah, where dod you get Tory lite from?
I tend to disagree ref Blair, things did get better for a while. The mood of the nation was very positive, in my world it was. Interested to hear why you didn't feel the same way?
The mood was positive, but the policies weren't.
The things you described, closing the boarders and appealing to leave voters. That kind of right wing politics makes them no to little improvement over the Tories. "
I agree, but it gets them into power, SKS hasn’t been great but let’s be honest, he is a massive improvement on what we have right now |
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"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris.
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them.
Ah, where dod you get Tory lite from?
I tend to disagree ref Blair, things did get better for a while. The mood of the nation was very positive, in my world it was. Interested to hear why you didn't feel the same way?
The mood was positive, but the policies weren't.
The things you described, closing the boarders and appealing to leave voters. That kind of right wing politics makes them no to little improvement over the Tories.
I agree, but it gets them into power, SKS hasn’t been great but let’s be honest, he is a massive improvement on what we have right now "
Aside from removing the current crop of self serving narcissists. What's the point of Labour getting into power if they're just offering a slightly less shit version of the Tories? |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying "
why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?"
Probably because they read the Sun. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun."
Blimey. Move on from that old one please. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun.
Blimey. Move on from that old one please."
Move on from all the lies the Sun told + all the damage they have done? Right you are then. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?"
1. He didn't deliver brexit. He repackaged Mays deal that he previously voted against.
2. Why do you seem proud that British people were conned into voting for Brexit. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun.
Blimey. Move on from that old one please.
Move on from all the lies the Sun told + all the damage they have done? Right you are then."
What makes you think anyone is influenced by a newspaper. They probably buy it for the football coverage and page three - if that’s still a thing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun.
Blimey. Move on from that old one please.
Move on from all the lies the Sun told + all the damage they have done? Right you are then.
What makes you think anyone is influenced by a newspaper. They probably buy it for the football coverage and page three - if that’s still a thing? "
What makes me think anyone is influenced by a newspaper? That's either the most naive thing I've ever seen posted on here or the most trolly thing.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris.
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them.
Ah, where dod you get Tory lite from?
I tend to disagree ref Blair, things did get better for a while. The mood of the nation was very positive, in my world it was. Interested to hear why you didn't feel the same way?
The mood was positive, but the policies weren't.
The things you described, closing the boarders and appealing to leave voters. That kind of right wing politics makes them no to little improvement over the Tories.
I agree, but it gets them into power, SKS hasn’t been great but let’s be honest, he is a massive improvement on what we have right now
Aside from removing the current crop of self serving narcissists. What's the point of Labour getting into power if they're just offering a slightly less shit version of the Tories?"
Small steps, I don’t think labour will get a majority at the next election , I think a Lib Dem, labour, green coalition would be a good outcome |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
1. He didn't deliver brexit. He repackaged Mays deal that he previously voted against.
2. Why do you seem proud that British people were conned into voting for Brexit."
Dear oh Lord. He campaigned for leave. I am not at all proud as you bizarrely claim. Not sure where that came from. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?"
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?  |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun.
Blimey. Move on from that old one please.
Move on from all the lies the Sun told + all the damage they have done? Right you are then.
What makes you think anyone is influenced by a newspaper. They probably buy it for the football coverage and page three - if that’s still a thing?
What makes me think anyone is influenced by a newspaper? That's either the most naive thing I've ever seen posted on here or the most trolly thing.
"
You either overestimate the influence of a shitty newspaper or have a very condescending opinion of the people that read it.
Third option, you haven’t really given it any thought and just dragged it out in the same way that others do with the Daily Mail - or Daily fail / hail / hate as some that think they are smart like to call it. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration? "
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure. |
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"SKS’ strategy colleagues obviously think they know what they are doing. Personally (and what do I know) I think people see through and get tired of all the smoke and mirrors and have more respect for forthright straight talking and sticking to your guns.
If it was me (again what do I know AND I am bias when it comes to Brexit which is a shit idea and getting more shit everyday) I would do three things:
1) Be honest that Brexit is a failed project causing harm to the UK and that if there is no way to minimise the damage to an acceptable level then we would need to consider a different relationship with the EU (such as EEA or possibly even rejoin - though the terms would need careful consideration as we won’t get deal we had before).
2) Form a progressive alliance with LD & Greens.
3) Commit to a proper referendum on changing from FPTP to PR for UK elections."
Has to be that last point - but having a referendum on it failed last time.
FPTP has to go, for the sake of democracy and the Union (if you believe in it).
It is argued that PR - ie. actual representative democracy - leads to weak government. It hasn't in Germany or New Zealand - although Israel's having bother with it at the moment.
However, if Boris and his creatures are an example of strong government; they're not a good one.
As for Labour ignoring their core vote, they started doing that up here. There was an available opposition to them and they took the huff with us for voting for them - they still do.
They learned absolutely FA from what happened up here and repeated their contempt for us, for the voters of N.England and the Midlands.
And here we are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun.
Blimey. Move on from that old one please.
Move on from all the lies the Sun told + all the damage they have done? Right you are then.
What makes you think anyone is influenced by a newspaper. They probably buy it for the football coverage and page three - if that’s still a thing?
What makes me think anyone is influenced by a newspaper? That's either the most naive thing I've ever seen posted on here or the most trolly thing.
You either overestimate the influence of a shitty newspaper or have a very condescending opinion of the people that read it.
Third option, you haven’t really given it any thought and just dragged it out in the same way that others do with the Daily Mail - or Daily fail / hail / hate as some that think they are smart like to call it. "
If you truly don't think newspapers have an effect on the opinion of many people, you're astonishingly blind. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Probably because they read the Sun.
Blimey. Move on from that old one please.
Move on from all the lies the Sun told + all the damage they have done? Right you are then.
What makes you think anyone is influenced by a newspaper. They probably buy it for the football coverage and page three - if that’s still a thing?
What makes me think anyone is influenced by a newspaper? That's either the most naive thing I've ever seen posted on here or the most trolly thing.
You either overestimate the influence of a shitty newspaper or have a very condescending opinion of the people that read it.
Third option, you haven’t really given it any thought and just dragged it out in the same way that others do with the Daily Mail - or Daily fail / hail / hate as some that think they are smart like to call it.
If you truly don't think newspapers have an effect on the opinion of many people, you're astonishingly blind. "
Are you influenced by them? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott. |
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"The trouble with the Labour party is they believe in fairness.
Unfortunately many labour voters only support fairnwss when they are are on the wrong end of the shitty stick.
In the UK they are the down trodden and hard done by. They benefit from "London's" taxes.
In the EU they are (relatively) better off and now see London's taxes as "our taxes".
"
And then the tories promise them that good end of the stick, and don't deliver. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"It has taken the Labour party far to long to realise that their northern voters switched party to get what they wanted and will not give that up easily, they did it in the referendum and election.
The question now is, what type of Labour party will emerge after the makeover? They need to appeal to the leave and close our borders voters to start with, then what is the plan?
In my opinion the Labour party need to bring onboard a strategist that is going to define the way they can challenge and be seen as having a plan, dare I say it a Dominic Cummings v2.
Surely someone might have thought to mention to SKS that the opposition is on the ropes, the writing is on the wall and the time is now to project a new way governing that resonates with the public, after the shambles of Boris.
Labour becoming Tory-lite is how they won with Blair. And it was pointless, nothing was any better under them.
Ah, where dod you get Tory lite from?
I tend to disagree ref Blair, things did get better for a while. The mood of the nation was very positive, in my world it was. Interested to hear why you didn't feel the same way?
The mood was positive, but the policies weren't.
The things you described, closing the boarders and appealing to leave voters. That kind of right wing politics makes them no to little improvement over the Tories.
I agree, but it gets them into power, SKS hasn’t been great but let’s be honest, he is a massive improvement on what we have right now
Aside from removing the current crop of self serving narcissists. What's the point of Labour getting into power if they're just offering a slightly less shit version of the Tories?"
Change of regime, is better than we have now, and Labour really do need to learn from the lessons learned. Blair was right to middle of the party, it appealed to voters who were worried Labour would be to left for them to switch.
I'm not locked into a party, I will vote for how I believe it will benefit me and my values, I wont vote for a labour left government, just as I wont vote for a conservative right government, and I can't be alone in this? That middle ground is to fought for, they need an Alastair Campbell or a Dominic Cummings type person to show them the way, as awful as that sounds... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure."
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over , |
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It is worth noting given someof the conversation.
The Conservatives are not governing with a mandate. they only got approx 40% of the vote. When push comes to shove approx 60% of the country voted for parties and people who were at the other end of the available political spectrum than the Tories.
First Past the Post is not truly representative of the nations desires.
I think I got those statistics right, happy to be proven wrong.
[this has been an opinion] |
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott."
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London. "
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over , "
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers? |
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it."
please don’t be so rude. |
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it."
complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers? "
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming. "
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke? |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier "
|
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?"
Let it go fella and move on FFS. Just because someone questions a tired old cliche thought that you don’t like doesn’t make you right and them naive. |
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?"
Are you influenced by reading newspapers? I’m not although I have got a nice walk in bath and some very comfortable elasticated grey action trousers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?
Let it go fella and move on FFS. Just because someone questions a tired old cliche thought that you don’t like doesn’t make you right and them naive."
You made a ridiculous claim: ie that newspapers don't affect the opinions of readers. When I called you on it, you started getting all pissy. Hardly my fault. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?
Are you influenced by reading newspapers? I’m not although I have got a nice walk in bath and some very comfortable elasticated grey action trousers."
Of course we all are influenced by the papers we read. Thank you for backing up my point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier "
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas? |
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?
Let it go fella and move on FFS. Just because someone questions a tired old cliche thought that you don’t like doesn’t make you right and them naive.
You made a ridiculous claim: ie that newspapers don't affect the opinions of readers. When I called you on it, you started getting all pissy. Hardly my fault."
Correction as you just won’t let it go. I asked if the political influence of newspapers is exaggerated or if you have a low opinion of the readers. You didn’t answer that bit.
Are you influenced by newspapers? |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas? "
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?
Let it go fella and move on FFS. Just because someone questions a tired old cliche thought that you don’t like doesn’t make you right and them naive.
You made a ridiculous claim: ie that newspapers don't affect the opinions of readers. When I called you on it, you started getting all pissy. Hardly my fault.
Correction as you just won’t let it go. I asked if the political influence of newspapers is exaggerated or if you have a low opinion of the readers. You didn’t answer that bit.
Are you influenced by newspapers? "
Is the political influence of papers exaggerated? Um... no. Read up on a chap called Murdoch. You may be shocked to discover he's wielded rather a lot of influence over this country for a long time.
Am I influenced by papers? I already answered that. We all are. But I'm not the one making bonkers claims that the papers have v little or no effect. |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed. "
The main reason I think Labour lost so many was because of the Brexit that was promised to them.
Now that these people have been shown that the Brexit that was promised to them never existed, are they really going to vote Conservative again?
That is hard to know, I would suspect they may return to the party that represents their other interests from Pre-Brexit referendum.
[this has been an opinion] |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed. "
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason? |
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"PS here's a little gem for you:
A boycott of The Sun newspaper by the people of Liverpool after the Hillsborough disaster helped to cut Euroscepticism in Merseyside, according to a new study.
Researchers at the London School of Economics and University of Zurich found Merseyside was around 10 per cent less Eurosceptic than the rest of the UK as a result of the boycott.
Well it must be true then. It could be as simple as their football team & fans having fond memories of so much success in Europe. This is backed up by a high level of Euro scepticism in North London.
Yup. Astonishingly naive + blind. Thank you for confirming it. complete lack of any sense of humour. Thanks for confirming.
Ah so you were simply pretending to be astonishingly naive as a cunning joke?
Let it go fella and move on FFS. Just because someone questions a tired old cliche thought that you don’t like doesn’t make you right and them naive.
You made a ridiculous claim: ie that newspapers don't affect the opinions of readers. When I called you on it, you started getting all pissy. Hardly my fault.
Correction as you just won’t let it go. I asked if the political influence of newspapers is exaggerated or if you have a low opinion of the readers. You didn’t answer that bit.
Are you influenced by newspapers?
Is the political influence of papers exaggerated? Um... no. Read up on a chap called Murdoch. You may be shocked to discover he's wielded rather a lot of influence over this country for a long time.
Am I influenced by papers? I already answered that. We all are. But I'm not the one making bonkers claims that the papers have v little or no effect."
I haven’t made a bonkers claim. I simply questioned the exaggerated influence level.
I take it that you do have a low opinion of Sun newspaper readers? |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed.
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason? "
I didn’t vote for Brexit. I’m seriously pissed off by Brexit thank you very much. Even more pissed off by the shit show that has followed. No sunlit uplands here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed.
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason?
I didn’t vote for Brexit. I’m seriously pissed off by Brexit thank you very much. Even more pissed off by the shit show that has followed. No sunlit uplands here. "
Ah, my mistake, my apologies |
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"It is argued that PR - ie. actual representative democracy - leads to weak government. It hasn't in Germany ..."
Are you sure about that? Have you spoken to any Germans on the issue?
When I was living in Germany (back before Brexit was a thing), I had many discussions with Germans about how their country could never make any changes because of the deadlock in parliament. Some of them actually admired the UK's system as it 'always produces a government that can get things done'. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed.
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason?
I didn’t vote for Brexit. I’m seriously pissed off by Brexit thank you very much. Even more pissed off by the shit show that has followed. No sunlit uplands here.
Ah, my mistake, my apologies "
Steady on, the way you 2 go at each other this is close to a bromance |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed.
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason?
I didn’t vote for Brexit. I’m seriously pissed off by Brexit thank you very much. Even more pissed off by the shit show that has followed. No sunlit uplands here.
Ah, my mistake, my apologies
Steady on, the way you 2 go at each other this is close to a bromance "
It’s only banter, if I have made the wrong assumption then I am happy to apologise, after all, there can’t be anything worse than being wrongly accused of voting for Brexit |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed.
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason?
I didn’t vote for Brexit. I’m seriously pissed off by Brexit thank you very much. Even more pissed off by the shit show that has followed. No sunlit uplands here.
Ah, my mistake, my apologies
Steady on, the way you 2 go at each other this is close to a bromance
It’s only banter, if I have made the wrong assumption then I am happy to apologise, after all, there can’t be anything worse than being wrongly accused of voting for Brexit "
|
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"It’s only banter, if I have made the wrong assumption then I am happy to apologise, after all, there can’t be anything worse than being wrongly accused of voting for Brexit "
I think an argument could be made that actually voting for brexit is worse...
[this has been an opinion] |
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"They got spanked in the election for decades of ignoring their core voters. They are too detached from the people they claim to represent. Didn’t help that any concerns people had on uncontrolled immigration were dismissed as racism.
Where do you get this misguided view that labour lost voters because of immigration? Your obsessed, it’s actually quite worrying why else did lifelong Labour voters ditch their party of choice and switch to the guy that delivered them Brexit?
Ok then - why did so much of Labours core vote , vote for Brexit?
Because they are Brexit supporters, that isn’t rocket science, are you saying the only reason people voted for Brexit was because of immigration?
Pretty much. It wasn’t to get a blue passport that’s for sure.
Are you guessing? Or are you just projecting your opinion as fact? Anyway, Brexit is done, in the past, your ‘problem’ with immigration is over ,
An educated guess. Why else would core vote desert in such high numbers?
Because of Brexit, a point I made earlier
Sunlit uplands?
Better trade deals ?
They are anti EU?
Sovereignty ?
£350 million a week for the NHS ?
They want to buy straight bananas?
Very funny. At least you have a sense of humour. Sunlit uplands indeed.
That is what was promised? Why did you vote for Brexit? And how can you be sure everyone else voted for the same reason?
I didn’t vote for Brexit. I’m seriously pissed off by Brexit thank you very much. Even more pissed off by the shit show that has followed. No sunlit uplands here.
Ah, my mistake, my apologies
Steady on, the way you 2 go at each other this is close to a bromance
It’s only banter, if I have made the wrong assumption then I am happy to apologise, after all, there can’t be anything worse than being wrongly accused of voting for Brexit "
Except voting for Brexit then realising you fell for the guff of someone that already had a reputation as a serial liar? I first encountered Boris during his time as Mayor of London. Serious transport issues on the agenda, he had simple plans to solve them all. He was full of shit then, still is now. |
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