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Iranian asylum seeker murders
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"If it was a one off it would be something to talk about but hay teachers in hiding for fear of being beheaded etc etc etc is not really news is it? "Hay teachers ?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If it was a one off it would be something to talk about but hay teachers in hiding for fear of being beheaded etc etc etc is not really news is it? ""Hay teachers ?? " I'm assuming that it's "... but, hey, teachers in hiding ...". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If it was a one off it would be something to talk about but hay teachers in hiding for fear of being beheaded etc etc etc is not really news is it?
Hay teachers ??
I'm assuming that it's "... but, hey, teachers in hiding ..."."Ah, which teachers are in hiding because of asylum seekers? | |||
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"I'm sure this will come back and bite me... But Bbc is saying the Norwegians are describing him as a Norwegian man of Iranian dispute. Not sure then he is a asylum seeker (or refugee). He may be descendant of one I guess. Looks like it is religious means tho. And it's a horrific crime. " Horrific crime. Of course the right wing media as highlighted in the OP, push the focus onto the ethnicity or nationality of the murderer. Which we all know only happens if it fits their agenda. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm sure this will come back and bite me... But Bbc is saying the Norwegians are describing him as a Norwegian man of Iranian dispute. Not sure then he is a asylum seeker (or refugee). He may be descendant of one I guess. Looks like it is religious means tho. And it's a horrific crime. Horrific crime. Of course the right wing media as highlighted in the OP, push the focus onto the ethnicity or nationality of the murderer. Which we all know only happens if it fits their agenda." Your right it is important to get the facts right especially in such horrific situations. It is also important not to hide facts | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity " That is horrific, when did this happen? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? " April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point " Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen " It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? " He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? " The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed." All the reports I have read state that he is an Irish citizen | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently " Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support " Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed." So how many gay men have to be murdered by a certain demographic before I'm allowed to say that there's a clear pattern emerging? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support " Here's a fun concept for you. Most ordinary people are against homophobia, and xenophobia/racism. You don't have to pick one at the expense of the other. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed. So how many gay men have to be murdered by a certain demographic before I'm allowed to say that there's a clear pattern emerging?" There were 206 men r@ped by a Christian in Manchester | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? " What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed " 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same " Should we stop allowing Christians in? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Should we stop allowing Christians in?" Maybe , looks like a pattern developing here | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed. So how many gay men have to be murdered by a certain demographic before I'm allowed to say that there's a clear pattern emerging? There were 206 men r@ped by a Christian in Manchester " All that proves is that we have more than enough lunatics here already | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed. So how many gay men have to be murdered by a certain demographic before I'm allowed to say that there's a clear pattern emerging? There were 206 men r@ped by a Christian in Manchester All that proves is that we have more than enough lunatics here already" So being a lunatic is unrelated to ethnicity, nationality or refugee status? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Should we stop allowing Christians in? Maybe , looks like a pattern developing here " Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to make light of mass murder | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? The news is that a horrific hate crime has been committed. The ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator shouldn't be in the headline, unless there is an agenda being pushed. So how many gay men have to be murdered by a certain demographic before I'm allowed to say that there's a clear pattern emerging? There were 206 men r@ped by a Christian in Manchester All that proves is that we have more than enough lunatics here already" Eh? But he is a Christian, and the UKs worst ever rapist? Don’t you see a pattern? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Should we stop allowing Christians in? Maybe , looks like a pattern developing here Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to make light of mass murder" Do you care about mass r&pe ?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Should we stop allowing Christians in? Maybe , looks like a pattern developing here Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to make light of mass murder Do you care about mass r&pe ?? " Of course but not as much as I care about beheading strangely Do you care about mass r@pe? Or are we not allowed to mention the demographic involved in that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Should we stop allowing Christians in? Maybe , looks like a pattern developing here Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to make light of mass murder Do you care about mass r&pe ?? Of course but not as much as I care about beheading strangely Do you care about mass r@pe? Or are we not allowed to mention the demographic involved in that? " I care about both, utterly horrific crimes , one committed by a gay Christian student, one from an Irish Muslim (sexuality not known) . | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed " I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. " So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Should we stop allowing Christians in? Maybe , looks like a pattern developing here Unfortunately I don't have the luxury to make light of mass murder Do you care about mass r&pe ?? Of course but not as much as I care about beheading strangely Do you care about mass r@pe? Or are we not allowed to mention the demographic involved in that? I care about both, utterly horrific crimes , one committed by a gay Christian student, one from an Irish Muslim (sexuality not known) . " I think you know which mass r@pe scandal I was referring to. But like I say, you have the luxury of burying your head in the sand. Some people dont | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more" I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more" No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? " We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. " It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture " The culture of hate towards minority groups? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups?" No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest " So, just stop all immigration? What about stopping tourists as well? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes" Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes" They are barbaric, unfortunately, we keep bombing and killing them, otherwise they would probably stay there | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity?" When it results in people like me being beheaded? Erm let me think | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest " we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. " It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity? When it results in people like me being beheaded? Erm let me think " Why not just stop hating on people based on sexual orientation, and stop hating on people based on nationality/ethnicity? Seems crazy, I know. But hey, most people seem to manage it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies " What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity? When it results in people like me being beheaded? Erm let me think Why not just stop hating on people based on sexual orientation, and stop hating on people based on nationality/ethnicity? Seems crazy, I know. But hey, most people seem to manage it." Apparently not when you're raised in an ultra homophobic ultra conservative society | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes " How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know" That is what I was asking? Stop all immigrants just in case ? And all tourists ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity? When it results in people like me being beheaded? Erm let me think Why not just stop hating on people based on sexual orientation, and stop hating on people based on nationality/ethnicity? Seems crazy, I know. But hey, most people seem to manage it. Apparently not when you're raised in an ultra homophobic ultra conservative society " Why not focus ire on people who are homophobic, or xenophobic, instead of large groups of humans who have something arbitrary in common like the nature of the government from their geographic location? That seems like a much more powerful message than watering it down by misdirecting blame to whole nations worth of people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know That is what I was asking? Stop all immigrants just in case ? And all tourists ? " Well it's very noble of you to be prepared to sacrifice other people's lives because for some reason you're pro immigration. You're clearly prepared to take that risk on my behalf. I strangely enough would rather you were less ready to take that risk with my life | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity? When it results in people like me being beheaded? Erm let me think Why not just stop hating on people based on sexual orientation, and stop hating on people based on nationality/ethnicity? Seems crazy, I know. But hey, most people seem to manage it. Apparently not when you're raised in an ultra homophobic ultra conservative society Why not focus ire on people who are homophobic, or xenophobic, instead of large groups of humans who have something arbitrary in common like the nature of the government from their geographic location? That seems like a much more powerful message than watering it down by misdirecting blame to whole nations worth of people." You seem to be labouring under the illusion that all societies are like ours. They are not. I wish it was different but it simply isn't the case | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know That is what I was asking? Stop all immigrants just in case ? And all tourists ? Well it's very noble of you to be prepared to sacrifice other people's lives because for some reason you're pro immigration. You're clearly prepared to take that risk on my behalf. I strangely enough would rather you were less ready to take that risk with my life" How about answering the question? Btw, do we know the religion of the person who committed these horrific murders | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know That is what I was asking? Stop all immigrants just in case ? And all tourists ? Well it's very noble of you to be prepared to sacrifice other people's lives because for some reason you're pro immigration. You're clearly prepared to take that risk on my behalf. I strangely enough would rather you were less ready to take that risk with my life How about answering the question? Btw, do we know the religion of the person who committed these horrific murders " I think I've made my point on this subject. If I haven't conveyed my side of the argument very well then maybe that's my fault. Anyway, at the very least I think you know where I stand even if you can't understand why  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know That is what I was asking? Stop all immigrants just in case ? And all tourists ? Well it's very noble of you to be prepared to sacrifice other people's lives because for some reason you're pro immigration. You're clearly prepared to take that risk on my behalf. I strangely enough would rather you were less ready to take that risk with my life How about answering the question? Btw, do we know the religion of the person who committed these horrific murders I think I've made my point on this subject. If I haven't conveyed my side of the argument very well then maybe that's my fault. Anyway, at the very least I think you know where I stand even if you can't understand why "Fair comment , I think we can all agree that this is a horrendous crime committed by an evil person | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more I agree, we should definitely stop ‘importing’ murderers and rapists, but from these 2 cases, how will we know who they are? We don't. That's why I said you can keep pushing for mass immigration and the likes of people like me will just have to take our chances with being murdered. And it's a lot more than 2 cases. The Guardian probably just forgot to report the rest we probably should do forced vasectomies too. I mean, every new child is an extra person who could kill you. The thing with news, is it has to be novel. Otherwise it gets broing and boring doesn't sell paper. There is so much more stuff that puts you at risk than immigrants. Want to reduce the risk of being killed by your own lunatics, have a look at drink culture. It's one thing to look at drink culture, no argument from me. Its quite another to actively import thousands of people from ultra conservative societies What about the people who aren’t from these ‘ultra conservative societies’ who are committing horrific crimes How about we don't import them en mass either. Crazy idea I know That is what I was asking? Stop all immigrants just in case ? And all tourists ? Well it's very noble of you to be prepared to sacrifice other people's lives because for some reason you're pro immigration. You're clearly prepared to take that risk on my behalf. I strangely enough would rather you were less ready to take that risk with my life How about answering the question? Btw, do we know the religion of the person who committed these horrific murders I think I've made my point on this subject. If I haven't conveyed my side of the argument very well then maybe that's my fault. Anyway, at the very least I think you know where I stand even if you can't understand why "You conveyed your argument well. We just disagree on some elements. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same " Surely not alp christians should be blamed and tarred with the same brush. Because of one very rotten apple to the core! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes They are barbaric, unfortunately, we keep bombing and killing them, otherwise they would probably stay there " Guess they have not been bombed enough really. Most have been invited. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes Is that worse than the culture of hate towards someone for their nationality or ethnicity? When it results in people like me being beheaded? Erm let me think " People like me being beheaded?? What do you realy mean? How many times have you been beheaded? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity " That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community..." Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes They are barbaric, unfortunately, we keep bombing and killing them, otherwise they would probably stay there Guess they have not been bombed enough really. Most have been invited. " Invited? By whom? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? " I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed I'd avoid Ireland in general https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/assailants-tried-to-decapitate-one-of-two-victims-of-newry-hatchets-attack-court-hears-41717506.html Definite pattern. As ever with these "patterns" we seem to stop at an arbitrary commonality rather than lowest common denominator. Is it gender, religion, race, nationality, or even region that is the best predictor. Often where we stop shows our own views. So you agree with me then, there are already enough lunatics without having to import more No one wants to "import" lunatics. Most people can also disassociate the actions of individuals from those of an entire ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture The culture of hate towards minority groups? No the culture of hatred towards homosexuality. You know, in those middle eastern countries with capital punishment for such crimes They are barbaric, unfortunately, we keep bombing and killing them, otherwise they would probably stay there Guess they have not been bombed enough really. Most have been invited. Invited? By whom? " Some countries to take refuge in. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community..." Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again." I am sure Oldham/Rochdale council also have new policies in place. I don’t think the BBC were solely responsible for him being knighted and having members of the royal family as friends ? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again." Ol jimmy lad is brown bread now. The Bbc will make sure it wont ever ever happen again. We should have all faith in them,and take every word they utter as gospel. And keep paying the ever increasieing yearly fee's. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. I am sure Oldham/Rochdale council also have new policies in place. I don’t think the BBC were solely responsible for him being knighted and having members of the royal family as friends ?" Birds of a feather flock together.  | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. Ol jimmy lad is brown bread now. The Bbc will make sure it wont ever ever happen again. We should have all faith in them,and take every word they utter as gospel. And keep paying the ever increasieing yearly fee's. " Yes, he is dead, but I think it’s important that we don’t assume that every white Tory supporting man, who was knighted is a serial peadophile | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. I am sure Oldham/Rochdale council also have new policies in place. I don’t think the BBC were solely responsible for him being knighted and having members of the royal family as friends ? Birds of a feather flock together. " | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. I am sure Oldham/Rochdale council also have new policies in place. I don’t think the BBC were solely responsible for him being knighted and having members of the royal family as friends ?" They are still his friends even though he is 6ft under. Take a look at Shawn attwood woods. An ex police whistle blower on many of his vids. Reveals much if whats still going on high up. As we write out small bits here. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. Ol jimmy lad is brown bread now. The Bbc will make sure it wont ever ever happen again. We should have all faith in them,and take every word they utter as gospel. And keep paying the ever increasieing yearly fee's. Yes, he is dead, but I think it’s important that we don’t assume that every white Tory supporting man, who was knighted is a serial peadophile " Well stated, dear Chap We should never assume such things. Some are very low few numbers where such deep evil lusty desires only exist. I really beg to differ!!  | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community..." This is definitely what Tommy Robinson said to try to justify his racist views. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... This is definitely what Tommy Robinson said to try to justify his racist views. " Heard tommo has spent others money and in hideing now. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Is that true? Is it also true that the sexual exploitation of children (and others) caused by jimmy Saville was allowed to happen because he was a Tory? I am sure the BBC are aware of what jimmy did under their watch, and they have policy in place so it won't happen again. Ol jimmy lad is brown bread now. The Bbc will make sure it wont ever ever happen again. We should have all faith in them,and take every word they utter as gospel. And keep paying the ever increasieing yearly fee's. " The ones that have been frozen for several years? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. " The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes" The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. " That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible " There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes" I was commenting on the beheadings part. From an N=1 sample, they chose to make it a group thing. The Rotherham stuff was, I agree, from a certain heritage. Indeed iirc it was from a certain area of Pakistan (because Pakistan is huge and has about half the population of Europe). It's important we are precise with labels here because it is easy to label these as Asian or Muslim gangs. That leads to the oxygen. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated " There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for years | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for years" Show me the statistics then? Do you mean over represented in Rochdale , then yes, that is correct or do you mean over represented throughout the UK ? That isn’t the case , I am afraid your falling into the right wing /Tommy Robison trap, | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible " Why is their ethnicity or nationality important? Surely the horrific crime is the important part here, and what needs to be tackled. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity " A homophobic hate crime in Sligo, disgusting, and a homophobic attack on a much larger scale in Oslo. Equally or even more appalling. Just for context; Ireland only legalised homosexual sexual activity in 1993 and outlawed discrimination on that basis in 1998. Not that far in time from an intolerant society and legal process. The last mass murder in Norway was by a far-right extremist. Rare events carried out by extremists don't demonstrate anything more. The USA has just opened up the possibility of abortion being outlawed in half of the states in the country. A socially hugely retrograde step in a society we consider similar to our own. Same sex marriage possibly to follow. Your comments in the rest of this thread demonstrate prejudice. Generalising behaviour to an entire population based on the behaviour of a minority. Then, by extension, denying the opportunity to seek safety for an even wider group of people. You are treating all foreigners of a certain background as if they were criminals of some sort of the other. You are giving yourself permission to treat one group of people with less regard than another. Not a very edifying display. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for years" The most significant issue was not sensitivity over the ethnicity of the perpetrators in Rochdale, it was not believing the victims. That's why it went on for so long. Statistically a smaller proportion (not absolute number) of the immigrant population take part in criminal activity compared to the majority. A similar proportion of the ethnic minority population take part in sexual abuse as for the majority population. That should tell you that it is a certain proportion of men who are a problem, not some other arbitrary grouping. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated " All of them should be castrated the convicted,and rightly so. A " crime is a crime" . not by the colour shape and size of the dog that bites!! | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible Why is their ethnicity or nationality important? Surely the horrific crime is the important part here, and what needs to be tackled. " Bit obvious as most threads they have the underlaying currents of what many are really hinting. No tackling of said crimes. Wink wink wink. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for years" even if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is. " Well said | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is. " Exactly | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is. "
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes."I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK. When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was. There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas. Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but these threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but these threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per. "Some of this reads like a satirical post, and some of it reads like an serious post. What's wrong with people who aren't racist having an non-racist agenda, and why is it only "liberal lefties" who aren't racist in your view? This seems really bizarre to me. My assumption is that most people, from all over the political spectrum are not racist. Where did you get this info that most people support wasting millions of tax payers money tracking humans to Rwanda? But I do agree that the Tories are extremely successful at convincing people that all the problems in the country have nothing to do with their failures and are in fact, the fault of "them lot over there coming over 'ere". In any case. People can either A look at how we can improve as a society, and try to stop these horrendous crimes. Or we can keep blaming immigrants. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but these threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per.
Some of this reads like a satirical post, and some of it reads like an serious post.
What's wrong with people who aren't racist having an non-racist agenda, and why is it only "liberal lefties" who aren't racist in your view? This seems really bizarre to me. My assumption is that most people, from all over the political spectrum are not racist.
Where did you get this info that most people support wasting millions of tax payers money tracking humans to Rwanda?
But I do agree that the Tories are extremely successful at convincing people that all the problems in the country have nothing to do with their failures and are in fact, the fault of "them lot over there coming over 'ere".
In any case. People can either A look at how we can improve as a society, and try to stop these horrendous crimes. Or we can keep blaming immigrants."My post was not my personal thoughts it is how issues such as these are seen by either one side or the other. One side will assume it is all liberal lefties, with woke ideals and the other will see, right wing racists. Does that surprise you though 2 bickering sides losing sight of the issue and holding onto their opinions as being right so everyone else must be wrong? Like I pointed out the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted tory, and they want tougher deterrents and laws. The subject needs to be discussed as I said, with respect to views from both sides of the argument to enable a better understanding of what the real issues are, no matter how unpalatable. I read here a lot, one person telling another they shouldn't feel like that, blame them, etc. Mutual understanding and not point scoring is a constructive way forward, in my opinion. Link to the BBC story where you can pick up the link to the poll and more on the numbers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-61782866 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but these threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per.
Some of this reads like a satirical post, and some of it reads like an serious post.
What's wrong with people who aren't racist having an non-racist agenda, and why is it only "liberal lefties" who aren't racist in your view? This seems really bizarre to me. My assumption is that most people, from all over the political spectrum are not racist.
Where did you get this info that most people support wasting millions of tax payers money tracking humans to Rwanda?
But I do agree that the Tories are extremely successful at convincing people that all the problems in the country have nothing to do with their failures and are in fact, the fault of "them lot over there coming over 'ere".
In any case. People can either A look at how we can improve as a society, and try to stop these horrendous crimes. Or we can keep blaming immigrants.
My post was not my personal thoughts it is how issues such as these are seen by either one side or the other. One side will assume it is all liberal lefties, with woke ideals and the other will see, right wing racists.
Does that surprise you though 2 bickering sides losing sight of the issue and holding onto their opinions as being right so everyone else must be wrong?
Like I pointed out the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted tory, and they want tougher deterrents and laws.
The subject needs to be discussed as I said, with respect to views from both sides of the argument to enable a better understanding of what the real issues are, no matter how unpalatable. I read here a lot, one person telling another they shouldn't feel like that, blame them, etc. Mutual understanding and not point scoring is a constructive way forward, in my opinion.
Link to the BBC story where you can pick up the link to the poll and more on the numbers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-61782866
"I'll have a read. At the moment, people can't even agree what the problem is, so it's very hard to get anywhere. In my opinion, that's to the benefit of the Tories, and why the constantly push the focus and blame onto immigrants. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per. "You are making an assumption that the Conservative party was elected into power because everyone who voted for them completely supports all of their policies. That is never true. It would be nigh on impossible. The Government certainly has a mandate, but that does not mean they have support for everything they do from everyone that voted for them. In fact, the majority of the population did not vote for them. They had 43.6%. What are people's actual worries? Not yours or people with similar views to you. What are everyone's actual "worries" about immigration? The BBC poll that you shared showed 4% difference between support and opposition to this policy. Pretty marginal ( error is probably +-2%) yet you are implying otherwise. What is clear is that there are many covert and overtly prejudiced and racist thinking in these threads. It is absolutely clear that is not everyone. However, those who are share their view robustly and get a similar response. Those who may have more nuanced reasons for their position on immigration then take offence because they are also included in the response. They are not,but then you end up on the "same side" as people who you wouldn't want to be associated with as you actually have your own position. So, as one of the more reasonable contributors,why don't you start with saying why you are fearful of immigration? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per.
You are making an assumption that the Conservative party was elected into power because everyone who voted for them completely supports all of their policies.
That is never true. It would be nigh on impossible. The Government certainly has a mandate, but that does not mean they have support for everything they do from everyone that voted for them.
In fact, the majority of the population did not vote for them. They had 43.6%.
What are people's actual worries? Not yours or people with similar views to you. What are everyone's actual "worries" about immigration?
The BBC poll that you shared showed 4% difference between support and opposition to this policy. Pretty marginal ( error is probably +-2%) yet you are implying otherwise.
What is clear is that there are many covert and overtly prejudiced and racist thinking in these threads. It is absolutely clear that is not everyone. However, those who are share their view robustly and get a similar response. Those who may have more nuanced reasons for their position on immigration then take offence because they are also included in the response. They are not,but then you end up on the "same side" as people who you wouldn't want to be associated with as you actually have your own position.
So, as one of the more reasonable contributors,why don't you start with saying why you are fearful of immigration?"Okay, where to start.... I said the majority of those who could be bothered to vote, voted tory. You know as well as I do that voters are are low in number. Those Tory voters are legacy Brexit voters too, they have an agenda and the Tory party is playing their part in extracting every last vote out of them by giving them what they want. The figures as you allure to are marginal, it is the no opinion, I'm not telling you my opinion voters that hold the key here. Do they want tougher deterrent, stronger laws? I would have a guess and say, probably, if they didn't I feel they would say so with a certain pride. Now about me and am I fearful of immigration, not in the slightest, I have lived my entire life amongst people who have travelled to this country either through opportunity, war or persecution. Those people have made my life experiences fuller, and they encouraged me to travel and experience the world. That is my experience, not everyone will feel the same, I am realist and understand that people fear change, but not letting them voice their fears in a way they feel comfortable with, creates another barrier to dialogue that could help them see things from a different perspective. That influence will then be passed on and grow exponentially in reach. Give everyone a chance to discuss openly how they feel effected and we have a level playing field, and dare I say it, some hope of respect for one another as free thinking individuals, with faults. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Isn't the 43.6 pc the number of voters? It looks like the number I'm familiar with (a large minority but no where near the number you'd imagine a 80 seat majority deserves) I'd welcome an open dialogue. I'm probably not amazing at it but I do try and understand views. However I also tend to find that people go quiet if you ever show them their view is built on sand. I do accept that's possibly down to my approach. The hardest part with anything is not creating the safe space. It's being able to say, I've changed my mind. I recognise this in myself. I hope to get better at it. But it's a very hard skill (and I think it is a skill!) " You have conveyed this exactly how I see it, the safe place for people to be themselves, feel listened too and give them respect. It can lead to that light bulb moment, usually recognising they’ve picked up their rationale from parents or friends without ever challenging why they feel and think the way they do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per.
You are making an assumption that the Conservative party was elected into power because everyone who voted for them completely supports all of their policies.
That is never true. It would be nigh on impossible. The Government certainly has a mandate, but that does not mean they have support for everything they do from everyone that voted for them.
In fact, the majority of the population did not vote for them. They had 43.6%.
What are people's actual worries? Not yours or people with similar views to you. What are everyone's actual "worries" about immigration?
The BBC poll that you shared showed 4% difference between support and opposition to this policy. Pretty marginal ( error is probably +-2%) yet you are implying otherwise.
What is clear is that there are many covert and overtly prejudiced and racist thinking in these threads. It is absolutely clear that is not everyone. However, those who are share their view robustly and get a similar response. Those who may have more nuanced reasons for their position on immigration then take offence because they are also included in the response. They are not,but then you end up on the "same side" as people who you wouldn't want to be associated with as you actually have your own position.
So, as one of the more reasonable contributors,why don't you start with saying why you are fearful of immigration?
Okay, where to start....
I said the majority of those who could be bothered to vote, voted tory. You know as well as I do that voters are are low in number.
Those Tory voters are legacy Brexit voters too, they have an agenda and the Tory party is playing their part in extracting every last vote out of them by giving them what they want.
The figures as you allure to are marginal, it is the no opinion, I'm not telling you my opinion voters that hold the key here. Do they want tougher deterrent, stronger laws? I would have a guess and say, probably, if they didn't I feel they would say so with a certain pride.
Now about me and am I fearful of immigration, not in the slightest, I have lived my entire life amongst people who have travelled to this country either through opportunity, war or persecution. Those people have made my life experiences fuller, and they encouraged me to travel and experience the world.
That is my experience, not everyone will feel the same, I am realist and understand that people fear change, but not letting them voice their fears in a way they feel comfortable with, creates another barrier to dialogue that could help them see things from a different perspective. That influence will then be passed on and grow exponentially in reach.
Give everyone a chance to discuss openly how they feel effected and we have a level playing field, and dare I say it, some hope of respect for one another as free thinking individuals, with faults. "So, this is interesting in itself. You have said again that "the majority" voted Tory. I wrote, and anyone can find out, that 44% voted Tory, which is not the majority. You did acknowledge that even this vote did not come from people who support all of their policies. This takes us further away from a majority. You also do not appear to be someone who has to "win" an argument, yet we have already diverged. How did that happen? I don't think that you nor I nor anyone else can talk for those people who do not have an opinion. My "feeling" about it is no more or less valid than your "feeling". Another point of divergence. More so if my "feeling" was the opposite to yours. Your experiences of immigrants mirror my own in many ways. Perhaps not those of others. However, one bad experience, or even second or third hand and reported "bad experiences" can create a different view. Humans naturally tend to have a negativity bias so this is very sticky with or without evidence. What is the safe space when views are driven primarily by emotion and belief rather than information? It tends to be when contradictory information is denied or ignored that the heat is generated. The thing is that people on the forum very rarely, I'd ever, express their feeling about why they believe what they do even though that is probably the primary driver. People use examples or data. Imagined, real or misunderstood. Perhaps if people do express the emotion driving this then we would make more progress. For my part it's empathy. I was picked on and bullied when I was younger for all sorts of things. From having sticky out ears, to being bookish, to "smelling of curry". I've been denied things arbitrarily by those with some power. I don't want anyone else to feel like that, especially when the stakes are much, much higher. Anyone else? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per.
You are making an assumption that the Conservative party was elected into power because everyone who voted for them completely supports all of their policies.
That is never true. It would be nigh on impossible. The Government certainly has a mandate, but that does not mean they have support for everything they do from everyone that voted for them.
In fact, the majority of the population did not vote for them. They had 43.6%.
What are people's actual worries? Not yours or people with similar views to you. What are everyone's actual "worries" about immigration?
The BBC poll that you shared showed 4% difference between support and opposition to this policy. Pretty marginal ( error is probably +-2%) yet you are implying otherwise.
What is clear is that there are many covert and overtly prejudiced and racist thinking in these threads. It is absolutely clear that is not everyone. However, those who are share their view robustly and get a similar response. Those who may have more nuanced reasons for their position on immigration then take offence because they are also included in the response. They are not,but then you end up on the "same side" as people who you wouldn't want to be associated with as you actually have your own position.
So, as one of the more reasonable contributors,why don't you start with saying why you are fearful of immigration?
Okay, where to start....
I said the majority of those who could be bothered to vote, voted tory. You know as well as I do that voters are are low in number.
Those Tory voters are legacy Brexit voters too, they have an agenda and the Tory party is playing their part in extracting every last vote out of them by giving them what they want.
The figures as you allure to are marginal, it is the no opinion, I'm not telling you my opinion voters that hold the key here. Do they want tougher deterrent, stronger laws? I would have a guess and say, probably, if they didn't I feel they would say so with a certain pride.
Now about me and am I fearful of immigration, not in the slightest, I have lived my entire life amongst people who have travelled to this country either through opportunity, war or persecution. Those people have made my life experiences fuller, and they encouraged me to travel and experience the world.
That is my experience, not everyone will feel the same, I am realist and understand that people fear change, but not letting them voice their fears in a way they feel comfortable with, creates another barrier to dialogue that could help them see things from a different perspective. That influence will then be passed on and grow exponentially in reach.
Give everyone a chance to discuss openly how they feel effected and we have a level playing field, and dare I say it, some hope of respect for one another as free thinking individuals, with faults.
So, this is interesting in itself.
You have said again that "the majority" voted Tory.
I wrote, and anyone can find out, that 44% voted Tory, which is not the majority.
You did acknowledge that even this vote did not come from people who support all of their policies.
This takes us further away from a majority.
You also do not appear to be someone who has to "win" an argument, yet we have already diverged.
How did that happen?
I don't think that you nor I nor anyone else can talk for those people who do not have an opinion. My "feeling" about it is no more or less valid than your "feeling".
Another point of divergence. More so if my "feeling" was the opposite to yours.
Your experiences of immigrants mirror my own in many ways. Perhaps not those of others. However, one bad experience, or even second or third hand and reported "bad experiences" can create a different view. Humans naturally tend to have a negativity bias so this is very sticky with or without evidence.
What is the safe space when views are driven primarily by emotion and belief rather than information? It tends to be when contradictory information is denied or ignored that the heat is generated.
The thing is that people on the forum very rarely, I'd ever, express their feeling about why they believe what they do even though that is probably the primary driver.
People use examples or data. Imagined, real or misunderstood.
Perhaps if people do express the emotion driving this then we would make more progress.
For my part it's empathy. I was picked on and bullied when I was younger for all sorts of things. From having sticky out ears, to being bookish, to "smelling of curry". I've been denied things arbitrarily by those with some power.
I don't want anyone else to feel like that, especially when the stakes are much, much higher.
Anyone else?"I’m agreeing with you on the numbers and the majority, I have somehow not explained that adequately enough, maybe? . Your experiences of being bullied on reflection, from your post, is the reason I have stood by and embraced everyone for the person they are. That has been my upbringing, living in a multicultural city, you see all things from many places allowing for what I believe a more rounded view of the good, the bad and the ugly. It has also led me to understand, that dismissed views lead to no engagement and resentment from all. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity " A third guy was blinded in one eye when attacked by the same Syrian refugee. Apparently some of these Muslim asylum seekers have serious issues with people who are openly gay. You would be very surprised at how quickly this case disappeared from the media here when the assailant was caught and his views became known | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same " Was it his religious beliefs that drove him to commit such heinous crimes? | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I've read a few articles about honours killings in the UK and girls having to go into hiding because they had become ro western for there families liking. It only seems to happen in certain communities/demographics. Perhaps women of all ethnicity and gay people of all ethnicity would benefit if it was accepted that a certain religion is still living in the middle ages. " until I posted this, this thread was directly below Roe versus Wade. I lean towards there are many groups (cultures) of people whose interpretation of their religion is "middle ages". I use quotation marks because we don't need to go back many years to see damaging thinking arsing from religion in the UK. Imo it's a vicious circle. Religion can allow people to express and justify (what i see as) unsavoury views and actions. While also planting these seeds. For me much of this is cultural. The hoffic acts we see don't come evenly from across the Muslim (or indeed Christian) community but from pockets. Therefore using broad brush strokes alienates more than address the issues. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That's why the sexual exploitation of young girls in Oldham/Rochdale etc wasn't dealt with properly at the time. Authorities didn't want to upset various groups in the community... Others belived that refering to face may give oxygen to racist perspectives... We need to be able to discuss these matters is an objective way. That's avoiding both ends of the spectrum. The comment at the start of this quote is starting to vere towards the extremes (I suspect from a place of a very real fear however disproportionate to the actual odds). We can say one man beheaded gay people. To call him a demographic is simply wrong even if his motivation came from his religion. I look at the reporting of American shootings and wonder how we'd decribe these "mentally disturbed lone wolves" if they had a different colour or religion. Fear stokes fear. The difference is that these lone wolves are part of the majority - white males. If white males where a minority but were committing the majority of shootings then it would be utterly irresponsible to pretend otherwise. The same as the Pakistani men committing mass r@pe of children. A minority that was massively over represented in those crimes The men were British and white British men are responsible for the vast majority of sexually offences committed against children in the U.K. That's my point. White British men are the majority so obviously more crime will be committed by white men. Men of Pakistani heritage are a minority yet were still over represented in the crime statistics covering the r@pe of these children. To deny that fact is unbelievably irresponsible There is no evidence to suggest that is the case, the horrific crimes recently have quite rightly caught all the headlines but over the years there are no statistics that state that they are ‘over represented ‘ . Btw, all convicted child abusers should be castrated There are no statistics that show this? Just read any of the reports from the investigations that have been released. It's this level of denial that meant the abuse carried on for yearseven if we accept that certain parts of Pakistan are over represented, it wasn't a denial that these groups commit crimes that was the big issue. Things like not believing victims was high up the list (a horrific bais we should be up in arms about). Fears of being called racist was there (note: noone was called racist afaik. It's a fear. ) And fears this will add ozxhen to the right wing flames. But let's say theybate over represented for grooming gangs. Have you done anything to see if lone absuers are over or under represented. I believe (but can't find my source) that white males are over represented here. So what you may find is that different races are equally likely to commit these terrible crimes. Just go about it in different ways. I suspect the vast majority of child abuse happens on a "small scale" by family members and friends. In the majority of cases it's not newsworthy even if it is identified. It is only when it's someone famous, or on a large scale (Rotherham, Catholic church) that it hits out media. So we get to here about the exeptions. And human nature then means we draw a pattern. The other issue is that this is an emotive subject and I know from experience if I try and put an alternative, statistical view I get called a sympathisers. But that's looking to create a fear about going against the grain. Like the fear of being called a racist for investigating the groups. We need to take the emotion oout of this discussion. As hard as that is.
Blaming "them lot over there, coming over here" is completely unhelpful and is a distraction from tackling these horrendous crimes.
I know where you stand on this, however, the majority of people who could be bothered to vote, voted conservative. This group of voters strongly believes in tougher laws and deterrents to prevent unlawful access to the UK.
When polled on the whether the government was doing the right thing with the Rwanda scheme the majority of people agreed it was.
There is, as someone has mentioned previously, a void in addressing the actual facts of peoples worries. This leads to frustrations from not being listened to and a feeling that the liberal lefties are stifling debate and ruling the majority through woke agendas.
Put peoples reservations, fears and worries on the table and deal with them openly and with respect, is the way to achieve parity on the subject. These issues are one not sided, but threads seem to only amplify one side, reflecting the state of the nation I guess and also not resolving anything as per.
You are making an assumption that the Conservative party was elected into power because everyone who voted for them completely supports all of their policies.
That is never true. It would be nigh on impossible. The Government certainly has a mandate, but that does not mean they have support for everything they do from everyone that voted for them.
In fact, the majority of the population did not vote for them. They had 43.6%.
What are people's actual worries? Not yours or people with similar views to you. What are everyone's actual "worries" about immigration?
The BBC poll that you shared showed 4% difference between support and opposition to this policy. Pretty marginal ( error is probably +-2%) yet you are implying otherwise.
What is clear is that there are many covert and overtly prejudiced and racist thinking in these threads. It is absolutely clear that is not everyone. However, those who are share their view robustly and get a similar response. Those who may have more nuanced reasons for their position on immigration then take offence because they are also included in the response. They are not,but then you end up on the "same side" as people who you wouldn't want to be associated with as you actually have your own position.
So, as one of the more reasonable contributors,why don't you start with saying why you are fearful of immigration?
Okay, where to start....
I said the majority of those who could be bothered to vote, voted tory. You know as well as I do that voters are are low in number.
Those Tory voters are legacy Brexit voters too, they have an agenda and the Tory party is playing their part in extracting every last vote out of them by giving them what they want.
The figures as you allure to are marginal, it is the no opinion, I'm not telling you my opinion voters that hold the key here. Do they want tougher deterrent, stronger laws? I would have a guess and say, probably, if they didn't I feel they would say so with a certain pride.
Now about me and am I fearful of immigration, not in the slightest, I have lived my entire life amongst people who have travelled to this country either through opportunity, war or persecution. Those people have made my life experiences fuller, and they encouraged me to travel and experience the world.
That is my experience, not everyone will feel the same, I am realist and understand that people fear change, but not letting them voice their fears in a way they feel comfortable with, creates another barrier to dialogue that could help them see things from a different perspective. That influence will then be passed on and grow exponentially in reach.
Give everyone a chance to discuss openly how they feel effected and we have a level playing field, and dare I say it, some hope of respect for one another as free thinking individuals, with faults.
So, this is interesting in itself.
You have said again that "the majority" voted Tory.
I wrote, and anyone can find out, that 44% voted Tory, which is not the majority.
You did acknowledge that even this vote did not come from people who support all of their policies.
This takes us further away from a majority.
You also do not appear to be someone who has to "win" an argument, yet we have already diverged.
How did that happen?
I don't think that you nor I nor anyone else can talk for those people who do not have an opinion. My "feeling" about it is no more or less valid than your "feeling".
Another point of divergence. More so if my "feeling" was the opposite to yours.
Your experiences of immigrants mirror my own in many ways. Perhaps not those of others. However, one bad experience, or even second or third hand and reported "bad experiences" can create a different view. Humans naturally tend to have a negativity bias so this is very sticky with or without evidence.
What is the safe space when views are driven primarily by emotion and belief rather than information? It tends to be when contradictory information is denied or ignored that the heat is generated.
The thing is that people on the forum very rarely, I'd ever, express their feeling about why they believe what they do even though that is probably the primary driver.
People use examples or data. Imagined, real or misunderstood.
Perhaps if people do express the emotion driving this then we would make more progress.
For my part it's empathy. I was picked on and bullied when I was younger for all sorts of things. From having sticky out ears, to being bookish, to "smelling of curry". I've been denied things arbitrarily by those with some power.
I don't want anyone else to feel like that, especially when the stakes are much, much higher.
Anyone else?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Was it his religious beliefs that drove him to commit such heinous crimes?" I don’t know, he might have committed the crimes because he is gay, or a man, or Indonesian, or a student, but it is far more likely he did this because he is evil | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Was it his religious beliefs that drove him to commit such heinous crimes? I don’t know, he might have committed the crimes because he is gay, or a man, or Indonesian, or a student, but it is far more likely he did this because he is evil" Most likely he is a bad egg end of story. But its naive to think there isn't a cult operating in the modern world whose followers have a habit of blowing up, behading people or simply driving into crowds because of the way they interpret an old book. Lots of bad eggs in the world but sometimes you have to realize there's a common denominator with some of these bad eggs. | |||
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"I've read a few articles about honours killings in the UK and girls having to go into hiding because they had become ro western for there families liking. It only seems to happen in certain communities/demographics. Perhaps women of all ethnicity and gay people of all ethnicity would benefit if it was accepted that a certain religion is still living in the middle ages. " We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Was it his religious beliefs that drove him to commit such heinous crimes? I don’t know, he might have committed the crimes because he is gay, or a man, or Indonesian, or a student, but it is far more likely he did this because he is evil Most likely he is a bad egg end of story. But its naive to think there isn't a cult operating in the modern world whose followers have a habit of blowing up, behading people or simply driving into crowds because of the way they interpret an old book. Lots of bad eggs in the world but sometimes you have to realize there's a common denominator with some of these bad eggs." there are a few racists out there in the UK still. End of story bit it's naive to think there isn't a cult whose followers have a habit of attacking people simply because their passport isn't blue Sometimes you have to realise there is a common denominator in these bad eggs in how they voted in brexit. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims." Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. | |||
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"I've read a few articles about honours killings in the UK and girls having to go into hiding because they had become ro western for there families liking. It only seems to happen in certain communities/demographics. Perhaps women of all ethnicity and gay people of all ethnicity would benefit if it was accepted that a certain religion is still living in the middle ages. We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims." That's true. At least women in America can still get abortions for unwanted pregnancies, outside of marriage for example. What would the outcomes be for becoming pregnant outside of marriage in Iran or Saudi Arabia? | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Was it his religious beliefs that drove him to commit such heinous crimes? I don’t know, he might have committed the crimes because he is gay, or a man, or Indonesian, or a student, but it is far more likely he did this because he is evil Most likely he is a bad egg end of story. But its naive to think there isn't a cult operating in the modern world whose followers have a habit of blowing up, behading people or simply driving into crowds because of the way they interpret an old book. Lots of bad eggs in the world but sometimes you have to realize there's a common denominator with some of these bad eggs.there are a few racists out there in the UK still. End of story bit it's naive to think there isn't a cult whose followers have a habit of attacking people simply because their passport isn't blue Sometimes you have to realise there is a common denominator in these bad eggs in how they voted in brexit. "I don't have a blue passport and never had any issues in the UK. It's strange how practically all the black and Asian people I know in a certain part of manchester voted brexit as they were pi$$Ed of at the area they lived becoming a dumping ground for Roma people, they thought voting brexit would give them their old neighbourhoods back | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity That is horrific, when did this happen? April 2022 and the fact that hardly anyone even knows about it unfortunately proves my point Just found it, firstly that is horrific, secondly it was in Ireland, unfortunately, not really going to make ‘big news ‘ here in England , thirdly , he was an Irish citizen It may not make big news but how many people even knew it happened? I'm sure you knew about about the young girl who was murdered in Ireland last year or the murders in France. And to say he was an Irish citizen is very disingenuous, he was an asylum seeker. I'd be very interested to know which article you read and from which media outlet? He was granted Irish citizenship , unfortunately there is so much bad news here, murders etc etc that these stories won’t make headlines in the UK . Sounds horrific though, there have been several gay men murdered in Manchester recently Well a piece of paper giving him Irish citizenship unsurprisingly didn't suddenly turn him into a liberal But those constantly pushing for the mass immigration of men from ultra conservative societies will continue to do so and I guess people like me and those from my community will just have to put up with occasional beheading and mass shooting. Thanks for your support Did you know that Manchester had the UKs worst serial rapist ? What does that have to do with the return of beheading to Europe? You keep burying your head in the sand my friend and I'll just try to keep mine from being forcibly removed 206 men r&ped by a Christian in Manchester , i would be a fool and a bigot to suggest all Christian’s are the same Was it his religious beliefs that drove him to commit such heinous crimes? I don’t know, he might have committed the crimes because he is gay, or a man, or Indonesian, or a student, but it is far more likely he did this because he is evil Most likely he is a bad egg end of story. But its naive to think there isn't a cult operating in the modern world whose followers have a habit of blowing up, behading people or simply driving into crowds because of the way they interpret an old book. Lots of bad eggs in the world but sometimes you have to realize there's a common denominator with some of these bad eggs.there are a few racists out there in the UK still. End of story bit it's naive to think there isn't a cult whose followers have a habit of attacking people simply because their passport isn't blue Sometimes you have to realise there is a common denominator in these bad eggs in how they voted in brexit.
I don't have a blue passport and never had any issues in the UK.
It's strange how practically all the black and Asian people I know in a certain part of manchester voted brexit as they were pi$$Ed of at the area they lived becoming a dumping ground for Roma people, they thought voting brexit would give them their old neighbourhoods back"not strange. Disenfranchised people can sometimes be convinced to do things that aren't logical to the rest of us. (I'm assuming that brexit didn't given them their neighbourhoods back). I wouldn't be suprised if the Roma peolpe were painted as the cause of issues rather than those whon are tasked with making our lives better. Religious zealots used the same trick. | |||
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"I've read a few articles about honours killings in the UK and girls having to go into hiding because they had become ro western for there families liking. It only seems to happen in certain communities/demographics. Perhaps women of all ethnicity and gay people of all ethnicity would benefit if it was accepted that a certain religion is still living in the middle ages. We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. That's true. At least women in America can still get abortions for unwanted pregnancies, outside of marriage for example. What would the outcomes be for becoming pregnant outside of marriage in Iran or Saudi Arabia?" SOME women can still get abortions in the US. And like I said in my previous post, those republican states are more restrictive than the Taliban, often considered among the most extreme. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason." If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman?" that we are comparing a very religious mualimstate with a moderate Christian state does not bode well for Christianity! Imagine if America was as religious as Saudi Arabia... | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman?that we are comparing a very religious mualimstate with a moderate Christian state does not bode well for Christianity! Imagine if America was as religious as Saudi Arabia... " The Republican Evangelical Christian movement seems to be using the handmaids Tale as an instruction manual instead of a warning. | |||
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"I've read a few articles about honours killings in the UK and girls having to go into hiding because they had become ro western for there families liking. It only seems to happen in certain communities/demographics. Perhaps women of all ethnicity and gay people of all ethnicity would benefit if it was accepted that a certain religion is still living in the middle ages. We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. That's true. At least women in America can still get abortions for unwanted pregnancies, outside of marriage for example. What would the outcomes be for becoming pregnant outside of marriage in Iran or Saudi Arabia?" How is Iran and Saudi Arabia influencing our British values? Do they have a strong cultural influence on the UK? By contrast, does the USA? Are Muslim zealots any more draconian in their views than Christian ones? Which appear to be gaining more power? Are we capable of picking and choosing for ourselves? Is the political left a greater threat to "British values" than the right? | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman?" Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ?" In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers." I think Hovis might have been using irony? | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers." "don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race" This might just be the silliest thing I've ever read on here. Well done. | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. "don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race" This might just be the silliest thing I've ever read on here. Well done." I based my argument on the examples I gave above. Got anything to refute it? Oh wait a minute! This is the internet. How dare I look for a rational debate on here?? | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. I think Hovis might have been using irony?" If that's irony, I didn't get it | |||
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"Everyone knows Brown criminal = Terrorist White criminal = poor mentally ill sweetheart" Evidence? Examples? | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. I think Hovis might have been using irony? If that's irony, I didn't get it "I was more reflecting to start with on the lack of threads here. The forum seems a lot quicker to start posting in some cases than others. Hence bumping this thread with my musings. I then went down a train of thought where it often seems where it's white folk we get a mental health angle (the Copenhagen one has at least) yet we don't seem to get that angle with Muslim killers. Of course it's generalisations. But then are so many threads. And I'm not defending murderers. I'm asking questions about us, and our media, not the killers. | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. I think Hovis might have been using irony? If that's irony, I didn't get it I was more reflecting to start with on the lack of threads here. The forum seems a lot quicker to start posting in some cases than others. Hence bumping this thread with my musings.
I then went down a train of thought where it often seems where it's white folk we get a mental health angle (the Copenhagen one has at least) yet we don't seem to get that angle with Muslim killers.
Of course it's generalisations. But then are so many threads.
And I'm not defending murderers. I'm asking questions about us, and our media, not the killers. "How dare you point our we treat non-white people differently... I mean you are right, but how dare you point it out! | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ?" I'd argue that unshakable belief in any religion is a sign of mental illness (No offense meant to any devout types reading) | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. I think Hovis might have been using irony? If that's irony, I didn't get it I was more reflecting to start with on the lack of threads here. The forum seems a lot quicker to start posting in some cases than others. Hence bumping this thread with my musings.
I then went down a train of thought where it often seems where it's white folk we get a mental health angle (the Copenhagen one has at least) yet we don't seem to get that angle with Muslim killers.
Of course it's generalisations. But then are so many threads.
And I'm not defending murderers. I'm asking questions about us, and our media, not the killers. "To be fair, it depends a lot on the media you are reading, at least until the motives are officially announced. When a white person kills many people, right wing media tries to hide the identity or try to create some sympathy towards him spinning it as mental health issue but left wing media reports facts. When someone of different ethnicity kills many people, left wing media tries to protect the criminal while right wing media tries to report all facts. Either way, once the motives are established, majority of people know who are terrorists and who are not. I don't think anyone denies that the Christchurch shooter is a terrorist and white supremacist. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?" So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. "don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race" This might just be the silliest thing I've ever read on here. Well done. I based my argument on the examples I gave above. Got anything to refute it? Oh wait a minute! This is the internet. How dare I look for a rational debate on here??" Lolz. I'll credit you that you're bring ironic, and not serious. | |||
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"Everyone knows Brown criminal = Terrorist White criminal = poor mentally ill sweetheart Evidence? Examples?" Every single mass murder ever reported, is the evidence. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol" And apparently we should be lauding this. | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. I think Hovis might have been using irony? If that's irony, I didn't get it I was more reflecting to start with on the lack of threads here. The forum seems a lot quicker to start posting in some cases than others. Hence bumping this thread with my musings.
I then went down a train of thought where it often seems where it's white folk we get a mental health angle (the Copenhagen one has at least) yet we don't seem to get that angle with Muslim killers.
Of course it's generalisations. But then are so many threads.
And I'm not defending murderers. I'm asking questions about us, and our media, not the killers.
To be fair, it depends a lot on the media you are reading, at least until the motives are officially announced.
When a white person kills many people, right wing media tries to hide the identity or try to create some sympathy towards him spinning it as mental health issue but left wing media reports facts. When someone of different ethnicity kills many people, left wing media tries to protect the criminal while right wing media tries to report all facts.
Either way, once the motives are established, majority of people know who are terrorists and who are not. I don't think anyone denies that the Christchurch shooter is a terrorist and white supremacist."Ah yes, now we are playing "both sides are bad" I have not seen any, or repeated, instances of left/centre left bias media "protecting" criminals. | |||
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"The people who seem reluctant to see that there is a problem within certain religious groups and certain demographics remind me of the people in America who claim mass shootings are not related to easy access to guns. There was/is a problem with child abuse in the Catholic Church, practically all serial killers are white men, some religious cults members are more likely to explode than other religious cult members, mass shootings in Ameroca only happen in America because of the easy access to assault rifles." I believe extreme religion when mixed with other factors (poverty, disenfranchisement etc) can become a big issue. Possibly my bias, but I see people try and prevent extrapolation from these specific cohorts. I'd not extrapolate a view of Christianity from the child abuse of the church. I suspect that was as much people exploiting the chutch as the church creating sex offenders. Generally all killers and sex offenders are men. However we don't stop looking at that being a demographic or group. We want to go further, more specific. Where we get comfortable stopping is often a reflection on us, not a true statistical analysis. | |||
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"An observation: an ethnic Dane kills 3. Police are searching for a white man as 6 are killed in Chicago. Im almost sure both will have mental health issues cited. But I never see a Muslim killer with mental health issues. Whats going on here people? Does Islam increase mental health ? In the case of the Danish killings, initially police said one cannot ruling out this as an act of terrorism. So no one by default assumed it was a mental health issue. It's only after investigation that they ruled out terrorism. Thr Christchurch murderer is named a terrorist. So I don't think anyone categorises terrorism and mental health issues based on race. It's down to the motive of killing. Killing someone because you dislike their ideologies and views is terrorism. Not sure why you have to resort to whataboutism to defend murderers. I think Hovis might have been using irony? If that's irony, I didn't get it I was more reflecting to start with on the lack of threads here. The forum seems a lot quicker to start posting in some cases than others. Hence bumping this thread with my musings.
I then went down a train of thought where it often seems where it's white folk we get a mental health angle (the Copenhagen one has at least) yet we don't seem to get that angle with Muslim killers.
Of course it's generalisations. But then are so many threads.
And I'm not defending murderers. I'm asking questions about us, and our media, not the killers.
To be fair, it depends a lot on the media you are reading, at least until the motives are officially announced.
When a white person kills many people, right wing media tries to hide the identity or try to create some sympathy towards him spinning it as mental health issue but left wing media reports facts. When someone of different ethnicity kills many people, left wing media tries to protect the criminal while right wing media tries to report all facts.
Either way, once the motives are established, majority of people know who are terrorists and who are not. I don't think anyone denies that the Christchurch shooter is a terrorist and white supremacist.
Ah yes, now we are playing "both sides are bad"
I have not seen any, or repeated, instances of left/centre left bias media "protecting" criminals.
"I have not been playing it "now". I have always claimed both sides are completely biased. Maybe "protecting" is not the right word. But both sides hide the truth depending on who the perpetrators and victims are. You can also look at the coverage of such news from either side. You will see right wing media covering Islamic terror attacks for years while left wing media do the same for white supremacy driven violence. It's not rocket science. The goal of be media is to make money. They tell people what their target audience want to hear and hide things which they don't want to hear. It's true in every country. If you need to get a real account of what's going on, you need to read both center right and center left. | |||
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"The people who seem reluctant to see that there is a problem within certain religious groups and certain demographics remind me of the people in America who claim mass shootings are not related to easy access to guns. There was/is a problem with child abuse in the Catholic Church, practically all serial killers are white men, some religious cults members are more likely to explode than other religious cult members, mass shootings in Ameroca only happen in America because of the easy access to assault rifles." Completely agreed
People are afraid of looking at facts just because they don't like what they see. I have seen American right wingers bend over backwards to defend gun rights. What makes it funny is that they call themselves "pro-life" to pass laws against abortions. But when you ask them about real kids dying because of gun violence, they won't pass laws against it. Their problem with abortion is their deep rooted misogyny driven by their religion. They just won't accept it. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol" Not on reproductive rights (for 13 republican states). Yes to maybe to iffy, it really depends which country specifically you are talking about for other rights. The culture of the country factors in to, not just the religion. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol Not on reproductive rights (for 13 republican states). Yes to maybe to iffy, it really depends which country specifically you are talking about for other rights. The culture of the country factors in to, not just the religion. " Can you name one moderate Muslim country where women have anything that resembles equal rights? Turkey? Whereas people the world over try to reach America and Western Europe. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol Not on reproductive rights (for 13 republican states). Yes to maybe to iffy, it really depends which country specifically you are talking about for other rights. The culture of the country factors in to, not just the religion. Can you name one moderate Muslim country where women have anything that resembles equal rights? Turkey? Whereas people the world over try to reach America and Western Europe. " Western Europe is pretty good. America is doing it's best to get closer to Saudi Arabia in regards to women's rights. Is this the low bar that the US is measuring itself against now? | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol Not on reproductive rights (for 13 republican states). Yes to maybe to iffy, it really depends which country specifically you are talking about for other rights. The culture of the country factors in to, not just the religion. Can you name one moderate Muslim country where women have anything that resembles equal rights? Turkey? Whereas people the world over try to reach America and Western Europe. " Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is." And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America. | |||
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"We could have a look at which group of people have been pushing the dismissal of Roe Vs Wade and what may follow with the universal right of marriage. Not Muslims. Republican States (run by Evangelical Christians and their money) are now more restrictive of a woman's bodily autonomy than the Taliban are. This has nothing to do with religion, its about extremism. Just in the modern world people are more tolerant to Christian Extremism for some bizarre reason. If you had the choice would you rather live in the USA or a country like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and which country would you expect to offer the best quality of life as a woman? Is the US now celebrated because it treats women slightly better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? So women in America are slightly better treated than those in Islamic countries lol Not on reproductive rights (for 13 republican states). Yes to maybe to iffy, it really depends which country specifically you are talking about for other rights. The culture of the country factors in to, not just the religion. Can you name one moderate Muslim country where women have anything that resembles equal rights? Turkey? Whereas people the world over try to reach America and Western Europe. " I would argue that the view on America is changing FAST as honestly with all the changes to reproductive rights Women are not equal by any stretch any more. And many parties in western europe are trying to push their countries in the same direction. the US just got there first. | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America." You mean a single state in entire country where there are rumours to outlaw gay marriage? Of course, let's add some hyperbole to it and add death penalty too. | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America. You mean a single state in entire country where there are rumours to outlaw gay marriage? Of course, let's add some hyperbole to it and add death penalty too." I am talking about the people that guide and fund the GOP across the states in almost all the states that overturned Roe. this isn't a single state. | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America. You mean a single state in entire country where there are rumours to outlaw gay marriage? Of course, let's add some hyperbole to it and add death penalty too. I am talking about the people that guide and fund the GOP across the states in almost all the states that overturned Roe. this isn't a single state." Republicans receive support from both Conservatives and libertarians in the US. While conservatives may support the move, libertarians won't. The Roe ruling basically implies states can decide abortion laws. Which state will actually ban abortion is yet to be seen. As of now, it looks like that will be just Texas. And how people will react to it is yet to be seen. Again, this has nothing to do with LGBT issues I pointed. Look at it from a wider perspective. To find examples for Christian extremism, you had to dig into one state in the US where there are discussions are going on to outlaw abortion. I just told there are 13 Islamic countries where there is death penalty for gays. Most of these countries don't even allow women to drive, force them to wear face veil and stone them to death in case of allegations of adultery. Even giving up on religion is a crime in many of the countries. 27% of British Muslims said they sympathise with Charlie Hebdo attackers. Do you think the scale of these problems in both the religions are really comparable? All religions have had extremist elements in their history. Even Hinduism had caste system. But in the past few decades, everyone has learned to move on from that. If they hadn't moved on, you wouldn't be learning evolution and LGBT education at schools and you wouldn't see so many people turning atheists and agnostics. But Islam has had some inertia in doing it. Doesn't mean that when you meet a Muslim person, you need to immediately see them as extremist. That would be racism. But one needs to acknowledge that in a sufficiently large number of people, extremism is a bigger problem compared to people in other religions. You are not doing anything good for them by pretending that the problem doesn't exist or by deflecting it to others by using whataboutism. | |||
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"I wonder how many people know about the 2 gay men in Sligo who were beheaded - also by an asylum seeker from the middle east If any other demographic was beheading gay people in Europe in 2022 it would be on every single front page but it seems that immigrants are higher up the pecking order among the liberal classes and gay folk should just sit down and shut up for the sake of diversity " It was on every single front page. Here on Ireland where it happened. Pretty sure The Guardian had a piece on it too. Not sure about the other British newspapers | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America. You mean a single state in entire country where there are rumours to outlaw gay marriage? Of course, let's add some hyperbole to it and add death penalty too. I am talking about the people that guide and fund the GOP across the states in almost all the states that overturned Roe. this isn't a single state. Republicans receive support from both Conservatives and libertarians in the US. While conservatives may support the move, libertarians won't. The Roe ruling basically implies states can decide abortion laws. Which state will actually ban abortion is yet to be seen. As of now, it looks like that will be just Texas. And how people will react to it is yet to be seen. Again, this has nothing to do with LGBT issues I pointed. Look at it from a wider perspective. To find examples for Christian extremism, you had to dig into one state in the US where there are discussions are going on to outlaw abortion. I just told there are 13 Islamic countries where there is death penalty for gays. Most of these countries don't even allow women to drive, force them to wear face veil and stone them to death in case of allegations of adultery. Even giving up on religion is a crime in many of the countries. 27% of British Muslims said they sympathise with Charlie Hebdo attackers. Do you think the scale of these problems in both the religions are really comparable? All religions have had extremist elements in their history. Even Hinduism had caste system. But in the past few decades, everyone has learned to move on from that. If they hadn't moved on, you wouldn't be learning evolution and LGBT education at schools and you wouldn't see so many people turning atheists and agnostics. But Islam has had some inertia in doing it. Doesn't mean that when you meet a Muslim person, you need to immediately see them as extremist. That would be racism. But one needs to acknowledge that in a sufficiently large number of people, extremism is a bigger problem compared to people in other religions. You are not doing anything good for them by pretending that the problem doesn't exist or by deflecting it to others by using whataboutism." As of now it looks like half the states in the US will introduce total or substantial bans on access to abortion. Where do you get your information from? Lack of education drives ignorance and religion is used as a tool of power. Leaders will use religion as a pretext for many things whilst leading a different life themselves. That happens in Communism and "secular" democracies too. That has always been the case and, sadly, appears to be human nature for some. There are no fewer Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jewish or even Buddhist extremists as a proportion of their populations. Some people support terrorists. Some make excuses for them. Some make sweeping prejudiced judgements about entire sections of society based on the actions of a tiny minority. What position they take for what group depends on their own world view. The politically appointed judiciary of a secular democracy has just ruled on a matter that will significantly restrict the rights of huge proportion of women in that country. On it's own, rather than making a "whataboutist" comparison to poorly educated theocracies, is a retrograde step. For your information, research from the Pew Research Center: 53% of Americans believe that abortion should be available in almost all cases. 60% of Protestants 55% of Muslims 33% of Evangelical Christians | |||
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"I am talking about the people that guide and fund the GOP across the states in almost all the states that overturned Roe. this isn't a single state." The Republicans have been courting Christians for a long time, creating anti-abortion legislation for them. This was a sensible course since it got them money and votes, and they knew that Roe made their legislation toothless, so it wouldn't annoy other voters much. That has now all changed. The Republican Party can read the polls, and they can see that their anti-abortion stance is going to start losing them votes. I expect to see a lot less pandering to the Christians in the run up to November. Those people that currently guide and fund the GOP won't be doing so for much longer. | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America. You mean a single state in entire country where there are rumours to outlaw gay marriage? Of course, let's add some hyperbole to it and add death penalty too. I am talking about the people that guide and fund the GOP across the states in almost all the states that overturned Roe. this isn't a single state. Republicans receive support from both Conservatives and libertarians in the US. While conservatives may support the move, libertarians won't. The Roe ruling basically implies states can decide abortion laws. Which state will actually ban abortion is yet to be seen. As of now, it looks like that will be just Texas. And how people will react to it is yet to be seen. Again, this has nothing to do with LGBT issues I pointed. Look at it from a wider perspective. To find examples for Christian extremism, you had to dig into one state in the US where there are discussions are going on to outlaw abortion. I just told there are 13 Islamic countries where there is death penalty for gays. Most of these countries don't even allow women to drive, force them to wear face veil and stone them to death in case of allegations of adultery. Even giving up on religion is a crime in many of the countries. 27% of British Muslims said they sympathise with Charlie Hebdo attackers. Do you think the scale of these problems in both the religions are really comparable? All religions have had extremist elements in their history. Even Hinduism had caste system. But in the past few decades, everyone has learned to move on from that. If they hadn't moved on, you wouldn't be learning evolution and LGBT education at schools and you wouldn't see so many people turning atheists and agnostics. But Islam has had some inertia in doing it. Doesn't mean that when you meet a Muslim person, you need to immediately see them as extremist. That would be racism. But one needs to acknowledge that in a sufficiently large number of people, extremism is a bigger problem compared to people in other religions. You are not doing anything good for them by pretending that the problem doesn't exist or by deflecting it to others by using whataboutism. As of now it looks like half the states in the US will introduce total or substantial bans on access to abortion. Where do you get your information from? Lack of education drives ignorance and religion is used as a tool of power. Leaders will use religion as a pretext for many things whilst leading a different life themselves. That happens in Communism and "secular" democracies too. That has always been the case and, sadly, appears to be human nature for some. There are no fewer Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jewish or even Buddhist extremists as a proportion of their populations. Some people support terrorists. Some make excuses for them. Some make sweeping prejudiced judgements about entire sections of society based on the actions of a tiny minority. What position they take for what group depends on their own world view. The politically appointed judiciary of a secular democracy has just ruled on a matter that will significantly restrict the rights of huge proportion of women in that country. On it's own, rather than making a "whataboutist" comparison to poorly educated theocracies, is a retrograde step. For your information, research from the Pew Research Center: 53% of Americans believe that abortion should be available in almost all cases. 60% of Protestants 55% of Muslims 33% of Evangelical Christians " Where did you get half the states news from? Maybe I was wrong with saying just 1. The problem with your pew research numbers is that most people who are born Christian and embraced liberal values have given up religious affiliations. What remains in the Catholic and protestants are purely religious ones. What percentage of Muslims do you think gave up on religion? Agree that lack of education plays a role in it. But as with most such social issues, there are multiple causes to it. India and Pakistan got independence at the same time and under the same circumstances. One country went on to even legalise gay marriage while the other still has a death penalty for gays. Or even take the case of UK. If 3 stand-up comedians make dirty jokes about Jesus, some Hindu god and Prophet. Which of the three will need security protection for years after that? Why does Sweden have violent riots everytime a Quran is burnt while nothing like this happens with a Bible? Which group protests against LGBT education in these countries? If the problem is purely down to education and leadership, surely people in Western countries should behave differently? Education does help people to embrace liberal values. That's exactly what happened in most other religions. But there is an inertia in Islam that had slowed down progress. When murder is a punishment for embracing liberal values and you have people justifying beheading and shooting for drawing a damn picture, it's not hard to see why the inertia exists. When you have 13 countries in the world having death penalty for gays all following same religion, you can't say it's just because of lack of education. And liberals are not making it any better by taking their side and justifying their actions by finding weird excuses and resorting to whataboutism. | |||
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"Also, there are a total of 13 countries in the world that have death penalty for homosexuals. All have same majority religion. No points for guessing what the religion is. And guess where has people working on legislation to overturn existing rights for the LGBT, and has leaders in their group ALREADY talking about death penalties for them... yup America. You mean a single state in entire country where there are rumours to outlaw gay marriage? Of course, let's add some hyperbole to it and add death penalty too. I am talking about the people that guide and fund the GOP across the states in almost all the states that overturned Roe. this isn't a single state. Republicans receive support from both Conservatives and libertarians in the US. While conservatives may support the move, libertarians won't. The Roe ruling basically implies states can decide abortion laws. Which state will actually ban abortion is yet to be seen. As of now, it looks like that will be just Texas. And how people will react to it is yet to be seen. Again, this has nothing to do with LGBT issues I pointed. Look at it from a wider perspective. To find examples for Christian extremism, you had to dig into one state in the US where there are discussions are going on to outlaw abortion. I just told there are 13 Islamic countries where there is death penalty for gays. Most of these countries don't even allow women to drive, force them to wear face veil and stone them to death in case of allegations of adultery. Even giving up on religion is a crime in many of the countries. 27% of British Muslims said they sympathise with Charlie Hebdo attackers. Do you think the scale of these problems in both the religions are really comparable? All religions have had extremist elements in their history. Even Hinduism had caste system. But in the past few decades, everyone has learned to move on from that. If they hadn't moved on, you wouldn't be learning evolution and LGBT education at schools and you wouldn't see so many people turning atheists and agnostics. But Islam has had some inertia in doing it. Doesn't mean that when you meet a Muslim person, you need to immediately see them as extremist. That would be racism. But one needs to acknowledge that in a sufficiently large number of people, extremism is a bigger problem compared to people in other religions. You are not doing anything good for them by pretending that the problem doesn't exist or by deflecting it to others by using whataboutism. As of now it looks like half the states in the US will introduce total or substantial bans on access to abortion. Where do you get your information from? Lack of education drives ignorance and religion is used as a tool of power. Leaders will use religion as a pretext for many things whilst leading a different life themselves. That happens in Communism and "secular" democracies too. That has always been the case and, sadly, appears to be human nature for some. There are no fewer Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jewish or even Buddhist extremists as a proportion of their populations. Some people support terrorists. Some make excuses for them. Some make sweeping prejudiced judgements about entire sections of society based on the actions of a tiny minority. What position they take for what group depends on their own world view. The politically appointed judiciary of a secular democracy has just ruled on a matter that will significantly restrict the rights of huge proportion of women in that country. On it's own, rather than making a "whataboutist" comparison to poorly educated theocracies, is a retrograde step. For your information, research from the Pew Research Center: 53% of Americans believe that abortion should be available in almost all cases. 60% of Protestants 55% of Muslims 33% of Evangelical Christians Where did you get half the states news from? Maybe I was wrong with saying just 1. The problem with your pew research numbers is that most people who are born Christian and embraced liberal values have given up religious affiliations. What remains in the Catholic and protestants are purely religious ones. What percentage of Muslims do you think gave up on religion? Agree that lack of education plays a role in it. But as with most such social issues, there are multiple causes to it. India and Pakistan got independence at the same time and under the same circumstances. One country went on to even legalise gay marriage while the other still has a death penalty for gays. Or even take the case of UK. If 3 stand-up comedians make dirty jokes about Jesus, some Hindu god and Prophet. Which of the three will need security protection for years after that? Why does Sweden have violent riots everytime a Quran is burnt while nothing like this happens with a Bible? Which group protests against LGBT education in these countries? If the problem is purely down to education and leadership, surely people in Western countries should behave differently? Education does help people to embrace liberal values. That's exactly what happened in most other religions. But there is an inertia in Islam that had slowed down progress. When murder is a punishment for embracing liberal values and you have people justifying beheading and shooting for drawing a damn picture, it's not hard to see why the inertia exists. When you have 13 countries in the world having death penalty for gays all following same religion, you can't say it's just because of lack of education. And liberals are not making it any better by taking their side and justifying their actions by finding weird excuses and resorting to whataboutism." CNN 13 states have passed so-called 'trigger laws,' bans designed to go into effect if Roe v. Wade is overturned NPR 21 states poised to ban or severely restrict abortion if 'Roe v. Wade' is overturned Why did you make up your figure if you didn't know? Was it to "win"? You regularly demonstrate a dislike of Muslims in general sweeping comments and a support for your own culture in opposition to them yet claim logic and impartiality. Do you really not see that? It affects everything that you write and every view that you express. When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? The point that I was making,which you seemed to have missed, is that there are extremists in all groups in which society chooses to divide itself. Picking out one and proclaiming it to be worse tends to happen when it is the minority in your own culture. Muslims are the new Jews in many ways. Not "my" statistics. I gave you the statistics on the view of abortion from people with different backgrounds in the same culture and Muslims were by no means an extreme. You have chosen to make up some other connection about people from other religions "giving up" their beliefs to " become liberal". That's a nonsense. You know nothing of the sought. You have just made up a link convenient for your argument. Islam was far more liberal and civilised than Christianity for centuries. The interpretation of religion changed with the societies around them. They are now mostly poor and still live under feudal or tribal conditions. Lack of education and opportunity will give the same outcome anywhere in the world. Most Muslims are perfectly nice, as are most other denominations and people with no religion. You just will not accept that for some reason. However, the more you tell that they are backward and evil and treat them as potential terrorists the more the internet rabbit holes of extreme organisations will suck them in. I'm not taking the side of anyone attacking anyone else. I can understand a thing and still identify it as wrong and unacceptable. Can't you? That's not condoning it or making excuses for it. It's the first step to solving it. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership?" Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender." I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now." Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach." ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some? | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some?" How do I say this without being condemned to hell and attacked by the aforementioned Christian institutions? I see a lot of those accusations as projection. | |||
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" CNN 13 states have passed so-called 'trigger laws,' bans designed to go into effect if Roe v. Wade is overturned NPR 21 states poised to ban or severely restrict abortion if 'Roe v. Wade' is overturned Why did you make up your figure if you didn't know? Was it to "win"? You regularly demonstrate a dislike of Muslims in general sweeping comments and a support for your own culture in opposition to them yet claim logic and impartiality. Do you really not see that? It affects everything that you write and every view that you express. When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? The point that I was making,which you seemed to have missed, is that there are extremists in all groups in which society chooses to divide itself. Picking out one and proclaiming it to be worse tends to happen when it is the minority in your own culture. Muslims are the new Jews in many ways. Not "my" statistics. I gave you the statistics on the view of abortion from people with different backgrounds in the same culture and Muslims were by no means an extreme. You have chosen to make up some other connection about people from other religions "giving up" their beliefs to " become liberal". That's a nonsense. You know nothing of the sought. You have just made up a link convenient for your argument. Islam was far more liberal and civilised than Christianity for centuries. The interpretation of religion changed with the societies around them. They are now mostly poor and still live under feudal or tribal conditions. Lack of education and opportunity will give the same outcome anywhere in the world. Most Muslims are perfectly nice, as are most other denominations and people with no religion. You just will not accept that for some reason. However, the more you tell that they are backward and evil and treat them as potential terrorists the more the internet rabbit holes of extreme organisations will suck them in. I'm not taking the side of anyone attacking anyone else. I can understand a thing and still identify it as wrong and unacceptable. Can't you? That's not condoning it or making excuses for it. It's the first step to solving it." My information about the states banning abortion was misguided from old news. You are comparing jews of the past with Muslims of the present day and seriously calling out me for making sweeping statements? Do you even realise how insultful it is for what the jews went through in those years? I never denied extremists are present in all religions. But the number of extremists and how far they will go to achieve their goals is much worse in Islam. I didn't make up statement about connection between liberal values and giving up religion. There is a direct correlation between percentage of people who have given up religion and the countries which have embraced religious values. For centuries, religion has been the biggest force holding people against bringing in liberalism and fight for liberalism naturally was a fight against religion. It's not that hard to see the correlation, if you want to see it of course. UAE has over 90% literacy rate. They are rich as fuck. And they still have death penalty for gays. Are you still going to blame lack of education and poverty for it? I mentioned clearly in my previous post that when you meet an individual Muslim, you should not consider them as an extremist. I have had chance to meet many forward thinkers from the religion. But when you take a sufficiently large population, the percentage of people with backward views is high. When Christianity and Hinduism had problems, people were not afraid to call them out. When they said big population of Hindus strictly followed casteist sentiments, no one said it was racist to say so. People agreed that it was a real problem and there were reformers who played a big role in fixing the problem. Same with Christianity. This is how liberals worked for decades. But the moment someone points out a problem within Islam, it somehow is translated to racism. Liberals in India including myself believe that Hindus in India have a problem with worshipping cows and taking it too for and resorting to violence for it. You see the difference there? How a problem be fixed if people can't even admit it exists? I am not making up any of this. Even rich and educated country has death penalty for gays. The people who protested against LGBT education in UK are not uneducated people living under autocrats. People who make fun of Prophet or drawing a picture even in western countries have to live in fear of life. Are you denying any of that? My solution is not to treat them as terrorist by default. In fact, I don't even know what the solution is. But I am pretty damn sure bending down to them whenever they protest against a movie they don't like or thwarting discussions around these issues by calling it Islamophobia only does the opposite. India officially decriminalised homosexuality in 2018. But practically speaking, gay rallies were happening for at least a decade before that. No one got arrested. As for marriage, Indian marriage law never mentioned anything about the sex of individual. So the moment homosexuality was decriminalised, gay marriage was officially recognised. Both India and Pakistan started with British law in these matters. India never touched it until 2018. Pakistan on the other hand passed laws around 1980 to make the punishments for it worse. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some?" In those years, every religion had its own share of nonsense. Hinduism while sexually open had horrible practices like caste system and Sati. But then when someone pointed fingers at them and called out for it, no one called it hinduphobia. Same with Christianity. When enlightenment happened, we didn't have liberals trying to find excuses for them. If they had bent over the way modern liberals bend over, we won't be teaching evolution in schools. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some? In those years, every religion had its own share of nonsense. Hinduism while sexually open had horrible practices like caste system and Sati. But then when someone pointed fingers at them and called out for it, no one called it hinduphobia. Same with Christianity. When enlightenment happened, we didn't have liberals trying to find excuses for them. If they had bent over the way modern liberals bend over, we won't be teaching evolution in schools." Most bizarre justification for being prejudice against Muslims ever. Based on a comparison between people now, and people who were alive 100s of years ago, and based on the lack of existence of a specific word that you made up. Throw in a bit of misunderstanding about history too. Amazing. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some? In those years, every religion had its own share of nonsense. Hinduism while sexually open had horrible practices like caste system and Sati. But then when someone pointed fingers at them and called out for it, no one called it hinduphobia. Same with Christianity. When enlightenment happened, we didn't have liberals trying to find excuses for them. If they had bent over the way modern liberals bend over, we won't be teaching evolution in schools. Most bizarre justification for being prejudice against Muslims ever. Based on a comparison between people now, and people who were alive 100s of years ago, and based on the lack of existence of a specific word that you made up. Throw in a bit of misunderstanding about history too. Amazing." Oh you want examples of current day? A big chunk of Hindus have a tendancy to conflate science with religion. They go to extreme lengths to somehow prove that everything that is in Vedas are "proved" by science. This has resulted in some people going as far as drinking cow urine to cure cancer. Some sections of the religion worship cows and have resorted to violence against other people who do it. Caste system while being eradicated in majority of regions, is still being practiced in some parts and honour killings for intercaste marriage is still a thing. Anyone can speak about these issues and point fingers. You are not going to be called a Hinduphobe. No one is going to deflect it saying "But Muslims/Christians also have problems of discrimination based on race or Shia/Sunni sects" When there is a problem with a religion, there is nothing wrong in pointing it out. By trying to protect one religion when rational criticism is being made against it, you are only blocking progress in that religion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some? In those years, every religion had its own share of nonsense. Hinduism while sexually open had horrible practices like caste system and Sati. But then when someone pointed fingers at them and called out for it, no one called it hinduphobia. Same with Christianity. When enlightenment happened, we didn't have liberals trying to find excuses for them. If they had bent over the way modern liberals bend over, we won't be teaching evolution in schools. Most bizarre justification for being prejudice against Muslims ever. Based on a comparison between people now, and people who were alive 100s of years ago, and based on the lack of existence of a specific word that you made up. Throw in a bit of misunderstanding about history too. Amazing. Oh you want examples of current day? A big chunk of Hindus have a tendancy to conflate science with religion. They go to extreme lengths to somehow prove that everything that is in Vedas are "proved" by science. This has resulted in some people going as far as drinking cow urine to cure cancer. Some sections of the religion worship cows and have resorted to violence against other people who do it. Caste system while being eradicated in majority of regions, is still being practiced in some parts and honour killings for intercaste marriage is still a thing. Anyone can speak about these issues and point fingers. You are not going to be called a Hinduphobe. No one is going to deflect it saying "But Muslims/Christians also have problems of discrimination based on race or Shia/Sunni sects" When there is a problem with a religion, there is nothing wrong in pointing it out. By trying to protect one religion when rational criticism is being made against it, you are only blocking progress in that religion." Legitimate criticism is fine. The problem is that people are prejudice against Muslims. It's that simple. | |||
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"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some? In those years, every religion had its own share of nonsense. Hinduism while sexually open had horrible practices like caste system and Sati. But then when someone pointed fingers at them and called out for it, no one called it hinduphobia. Same with Christianity. When enlightenment happened, we didn't have liberals trying to find excuses for them. If they had bent over the way modern liberals bend over, we won't be teaching evolution in schools. Most bizarre justification for being prejudice against Muslims ever. Based on a comparison between people now, and people who were alive 100s of years ago, and based on the lack of existence of a specific word that you made up. Throw in a bit of misunderstanding about history too. Amazing. Oh you want examples of current day? A big chunk of Hindus have a tendancy to conflate science with religion. They go to extreme lengths to somehow prove that everything that is in Vedas are "proved" by science. This has resulted in some people going as far as drinking cow urine to cure cancer. Some sections of the religion worship cows and have resorted to violence against other people who do it. Caste system while being eradicated in majority of regions, is still being practiced in some parts and honour killings for intercaste marriage is still a thing. Anyone can speak about these issues and point fingers. You are not going to be called a Hinduphobe. No one is going to deflect it saying "But Muslims/Christians also have problems of discrimination based on race or Shia/Sunni sects" When there is a problem with a religion, there is nothing wrong in pointing it out. By trying to protect one religion when rational criticism is being made against it, you are only blocking progress in that religion. Legitimate criticism is fine. The problem is that people are prejudice against Muslims. It's that simple. " You think 13 countries having death penalty for gays is not legitimate criticism? Pointing out people protesting against LGBT education is not legitimate criticism? Stand up comedians and journalists having to ask for security because their life is under threat because they made a wrong joke or drew the wrong picture is not legitimate criticism? Questioning why women have to wear face veil isn't legitimate criticism? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Do Hindu politicians in India scapegoat Muslims and do the Hindu population assault minority Muslims or does it only work one way? When did India "legalise" homosexual sex? When did it legalise homosexual marriage and civil partnership? Side note: These things were only ever banned in the first place because of British Christian Colonisation. Before the UK got involved India have a very "progressive" stance on sexuality and gender. I know. It's a more fluid concept. Also in Polynesian cultures and other parts of the world. Yet that view changed and stuck. "India" was historically also only a single entity under various empires. It is an artificial construct as it exists now. Yeah, a lot of people don't realise that if you take the entirety of global history, only a small fraction of it is the Allosexual Cisgendered Heteronormativity that Christian Institutions preach. ...but aren't Muslims supposed to be the most backward according to some? In those years, every religion had its own share of nonsense. Hinduism while sexually open had horrible practices like caste system and Sati. But then when someone pointed fingers at them and called out for it, no one called it hinduphobia. Same with Christianity. When enlightenment happened, we didn't have liberals trying to find excuses for them. If they had bent over the way modern liberals bend over, we won't be teaching evolution in schools. Most bizarre justification for being prejudice against Muslims ever. Based on a comparison between people now, and people who were alive 100s of years ago, and based on the lack of existence of a specific word that you made up. Throw in a bit of misunderstanding about history too. Amazing. Oh you want examples of current day? A big chunk of Hindus have a tendancy to conflate science with religion. They go to extreme lengths to somehow prove that everything that is in Vedas are "proved" by science. This has resulted in some people going as far as drinking cow urine to cure cancer. Some sections of the religion worship cows and have resorted to violence against other people who do it. Caste system while being eradicated in majority of regions, is still being practiced in some parts and honour killings for intercaste marriage is still a thing. Anyone can speak about these issues and point fingers. You are not going to be called a Hinduphobe. No one is going to deflect it saying "But Muslims/Christians also have problems of discrimination based on race or Shia/Sunni sects" When there is a problem with a religion, there is nothing wrong in pointing it out. By trying to protect one religion when rational criticism is being made against it, you are only blocking progress in that religion. Legitimate criticism is fine. The problem is that people are prejudice against Muslims. It's that simple. You think 13 countries having death penalty for gays is not legitimate criticism? Pointing out people protesting against LGBT education is not legitimate criticism? Stand up comedians and journalists having to ask for security because their life is under threat because they made a wrong joke or drew the wrong picture is not legitimate criticism? Questioning why women have to wear face veil isn't legitimate criticism?" You appear to have made a huge assumption about something I didn't say, then got really angry about it. Hating Muslims because of these things is ridiculous. Yet this is where we are in this country. Absolutely no one is saying you can't legitimately criticise all these awful things. The issue is that people use this as an excuse to hate Muslim people. Just look at these forums, plenty of people are very open about it. | |||
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" You appear to have made a huge assumption about something I didn't say, then got really angry about it. Hating Muslims because of these things is ridiculous. Yet this is where we are in this country. Absolutely no one is saying you can't legitimately criticise all these awful things. The issue is that people use this as an excuse to hate Muslim people. Just look at these forums, plenty of people are very open about it. " I never justified hate against individuals because of a religion. But every time the above mentioned issues are being brought up, you will either be called an Islamophobe or you will see people deflecting by saying "but other religions also have problems" as you can see above. | |||
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